“But we have already established GW2 has more people playing than Black Ops 2 (PC) and Diablo 3 looking at data from two separate data sets (Steam and Xfire). What more do people want?”
There’s a steam metric for GW2? I tried finding it a few days ago and couldn’t as steam did not sell it – steam would be a much better way of identifying trends then XFire.
That said, the TP has picked up but more on sells then buys, the price of stuff is rising fairly alarmingly. No one is farming orr, the prices of items from orr is rising. The 2nd wave of bots seems to be around to 50-70 zone due to the oversupply of those items.
LA is very busy, but due to the gold spam I think 5-10% of people there might be gold sellers. Everyone else is on FotM farming, and my wait on JQ is around 1-2 minutes at the most from overflow.
I’d say we have regulars farming gear, who will leave once they have all the gear. Newbies, of which 90% will leave once they hit end game (either due to boredom or gear grind), and the other 10% will join the gear grind (though may or may not get discouraged based on the gated aspect, no idea here).
The only thing I really will say it the triple whamie of friend trial, discount a week after all friends bought the game, and the large gemstore discout was either meant to try to addict people or as a very extreme cash grab.
“Would be silly if they get for free now for what I paid 25€. Plus we endured all the bugs of the first 3 months, which are still not all ironed out.”
No, not really. We got to play it for 3 months. We shouldn’t deserve a free discount now after enjoying it for this long (though we should deserve a full refund for the kitten the game turned into, but that’s for another thread).
The people who bought the game this week, however, should. Them launching the refer a friend trial so close to a deluxe sale is a bit evil of them. Especially since it’s jerking around brand -new- who have been hearing us kitten and moan about the game for a while.
This, however, reeks of desperation. In short succession we’ve had the game. . .
- drastically change direction to appease to a new demographic
- refer a friend trial when this should have been in from day 1, and usually one comes in when companies really need to up sales due to poor sales or stagnation
- potentially peeving off their refer a friend trial purchasers as they ran a special one week after their sole refer a friend launch
- running a special for the game 3 months after launch
- the blacklion sale being so extreme and needing such a high bulk, 50 keys? At 50% off? I’m used to every other MMO where 20-25% is standard or pretty good, or there are no sales at all (the latter being rarer).
This could all be bad timing, especially since it’s black friday, but if it’s not, it could be the “open your eyes” all of us have been saying to look out for.
You can get a faster mystic forge from your home server’s borderland tigirius.
Welcome to Tyria, wait until you reach level 80 and discover the rest of the game doesn’t exist anymore. It’ll be a great feeling.
If you’re tired of the overflow maps, try any map other then LA. They’re all pretty much dead.
Hell, ANet could pretty much remove every map but LA from the game and still maintain 70-90% of it’s non-bot playerbase.
“You are the type of person who when their girlfriend or boyfriend splits up with you, you lash out at said person with something along the lines of “You promised you’d always love me.” when no promise was really made, just the intention to try.”
I love how the relationship argument is cropping up more and more and becoming this idiocentric crux the WoWionite community is sticking on its self.
STOP EQUATING YOUR VIDEO GAME TO YOUR RELATIONSHIPS.
This is more like buying accounting software that does the US, the UK, and Canada.
2 months in, they updated – they no longer service the UK and Canada. They now only do accounting for China, Japan and the US. It’s still accounting software, but if you bought it from the US or Canada, you are now no longer using that software.
Should you be granted money back? Yes, you bought accounting software that works in Canada and no longer have this. Is this the same here? Yes. We had a grind free MMORPG, now we have a grind based MMORPG – it’s still an MMORPG but the rest of us were lied to. Lied to on a product we -bought-.
Unless you pay for your girlfriend, I’m hoping you ended up going out with her because of mutual want. ANet never gave me no 300$ for my time, but I gave them 300$ for their product – a product which is now gone and replaced with a similar items I do not want.
STOP SAYING YOUR WIFE AND GW2 ARE THE SAME.
“Some people would still be angry because they don’t want the second best gear in the game, but that’s a personal problem I wouldn’t agree with.”
I know you’re kind of on my side, but this is also a stupid statement. Should we run a sewage line through the middle of your house because it won’t affect the rest of your neighborhood, or should another solution be found? Obviously, you’d be the only one affected by raw sewage being pumped so it’s definately a go ahead!
(edited by GADefence.5634)
“There WAS feedback on this very forum asking for gear progression, Anet took that feedback and ran with it. At the time those of us who did’ent want this style of game mostly stayed quiet because we believed that the game would stay as it was without our feedback.”
I’m actually curious what forums you went to. Reddit and the official forums seemed to get a few gear posts here and there, and while the reddit forums have finally quieted down (I assume all of us who cared for old ANet finally gave up on reddit), there’s way WAY more posts here then there ever was about adding gear grind to the game.
“LOL everything you do in this game is a grind of some sort. The legendaries was a super grind it’s even worse now. You can’t just pick and chose which grind you want to complain about. You might as well complain about the whole thing lol….”
You need to understand the difference between grinding and farming. You grinded to exotics and to level 80, most of which you got via doing story and cheaply enough with dungeons and the such. This was understood and understood to be it, the end. Getting 100% on your account? Sure that took a while but it wasn’t a grind – it was, at best, a farm. Same with the legendary. Reason?
I didn’t hit you 3%, 30%, or 300% harder if I had 100% explorer, or dungeon master, or any other title. I didn’t hit you harder with a legendary. Now?
Legendaries auto up level to whatever the latest FotM max tier item is – meaning they’re about the only gear worth getting. Ascendeds add 20%~ to your stats. Then the next one comes around, got legendaries? Completely dominate. Don’t? GO GRIND NUB.
If anything, this update added a serious amount of grinding.
(edited by GADefence.5634)
“However, you also have to understand that MMO unlike other genres of game requires persistent commitments of hundreds/thousands of hours and money from players. It is as much a commitments of emotion and loyalty to a game which they bring themselves to login to play everyday. MMO is like no other games and it is itself a long-term investment in a certain sense.”
I do like how you didn’t mention people playing MMOs for some of the main reasons you should game : Fun and enjoyment.
“Obsidian armor? PvP ranks? Tormented weapons? Those weren’t grinds? GW1 has as much grind at GW2.”
An optional grind is a farm. Why can people not understand this?
You GRIND 20% better armour, you FARM gold (unless gold is required to get you said new armour). You GRIND stats, you FARM looks.
I love how the people complaining of welfare ascendeds are probably on welfare.
“this would be true if we weren’t talking about a video game. in this case if you are getting negative and frustrated you are doing something wrong, not the game”
Sorry, but the group that was (one month ago) complaining about the game not having vertical progression (despite not having read everything that said ‘no vertical progression’), and whined until they got their way, is now the one that is telling us to stop giving our feedback because the game is the way they like it.
If anything, this is more hilarious then anything. We have 3-6 threads a WEEK about vertical progression not being present. We now have 5-6 threads a DAY about vertical progression.
Honestly? Here I thought Dego was going to be the upper brass of missing the point and ESL I had to see here.
We’re really saying “Please don’t add more stats but instead add more stats to this dungeon tied to a title so everyone can be happy!” I’d say you’re missing the point but I’m curious if you know what a point is.
“(* I tired about all of you just only whining and whining, but still here and still play the game :p …)”
Actually, I haven’t played the game since the patch weekend. Most of us keep coming on here hoping for some good news. How about you stop trying to troll?
“See it all the time at my Tech Support job. Often it leads to upset customers, but that is the truth of it. You don’t go making up lies to the customer to make them happy. Especially not when large amounts of computer data is involved.”
Some people expect unreasonable things. I was tech support too and once had someone annoyed because they bought a 64 bit PC early and couldn’t get flash to work to play farmvill. That wasn’t our fault, but the person started hating our company over it. That was him having improper hate.
Some people called in with their PCs saying they would come with specific specs (ex: 4.2 quad core) and it did not have such (a low end dual core for instance). These people wanted a refund. That’s false advertising and they are right for their hatred.
“Constructive feedback is made with respect to the pressures faced by the opposing party in an attempt to meet a mutually-beneficial middle ground which is achievable.”
What I’m asking is a facet of the game that is making it poorer is taken out. Yes, I understand I’m not taking the grinders into consideration because there is no middle ground, you can’t have a “little 90 hour grind” or a “big 90 hour grind”. You had a little grind before and they got a lot more added, we want it removed.
I’ll put it in the concept of food. Say you and me go eat, I am vegatarian, you are not. We both order the same thing (meaning there are the same ingredients in both our meals). We both decide on pasta. After it comes, you say “Man I could really use meatballs here”. Boom ,meatballs in both our meals. Well now, I no longer want to eat this. You can’t add a little bit or something into it, as I won’t eat it. And you think it’s better with it.
Saying “take them out” isn’t destructive critisism. If the menu said “Pasta, vegan, has no meatballs” and the restaurant changed it – they made what I ordered defunct and not available AFTER taking my money. If the menu said “Pasta”, then there’s a grey area. If the menu said “Pasta, has meatballs”, I can’t complain about ordering it.
What happened is we both ordered vegan pasta and the pro meatball group said “take these vegan bits our and put the meatball bits in” after enough that it made the meal unenjoyable for us.
(edited by GADefence.5634)
“Because ANet counted on the built-in audience of GW1 players for GW2. I would guess the majority of pre-purchases of GW2 were made by loyal GW1 players who believed ANet’s promises.”
Pretty much this. I would have waited until GW2 was on special for 30-40$ if I knew they had this crap an end game, or planned to add it.
Instead I bought the CE and 100$ worth of gems (bringing me up to around 300$ spent on the game) and then they pull the rug from underneath me and change the game completely. I know I handed out trials to friends for GW2 hoping the gear grind wasn’t so bad, and had around 20$ who were willing to buy it before the end of the month until I told them end game was all grinding 1 dungeon. Killed it for them too.
“On a side note, I’ve noticed a significant increase in activity on lower-level maps since Monday.”
That’s probably because all the free trial people bought the game.
“using your swamp example, set up the mall at the edge of the swamp is perfect ! its what I am saying people should say but instead people are saying the people in charge of building the mall are liars because they promised us a mall which they didnt manage to build (before even giving them a chance to do anything about it!)”
Actually, it’s more like the people who built the mall charging you 70$ to enter the mall saying there’s an observatory at the back that lets you look into the swamp only to discover that instead it’s an escalator that goes up and down.
Every mall has an escalator. I wouldn’t have payed 70$ to enter a mall with an escalator. Either build the observatory your already took my money and promising me was there, or give me my money back since you lied.
(edited by GADefence.5634)
“I’m seeing too many posts about people’s upset feelings, conspiracy theories, and opinions and not enough actual constructive feedback.”
We all post constructive feedback. Our feedback is take it out. It is not our fault our feedback differs from yours.
It’s like if you wanted to build an observatory/mall in the middle of a swamp yet the swamp kept screwing up the foundation. Someone says the fix of “move the mall to solid ground, setup the observatory on the edge of the swamp” and the rest say that’s not constructive because it doesn’t fix the issue of setting up the mall/observatory combo in the swamp.
“Some people have long abandoned the concept of constructive critisism and openly embraced the lync mob mentality!”
Well, most people here feel what ANet did is the equivalent to selling us milk, delivering us orange juice, and telling us all sales are final on products so no refund. It’s kinda aggravating, is what I am getting at.
“I see, because noone start a Anet flamewar on map, that’s the majority and everyone is happy except people on this forum..”
Actually, every time I mention it I get threated with 3 groups of people.
1: People who agree with me (nearly my entire guild, a random few people in the maps I go to)
2: People who have NO idea the forums exist or the gear exist (nearly everyone in all the maps I talked about it with )
3: Verbal abuse (5 or 6 adamant pro farm people in LA who call me a troll)
Either way, if the game dies, we were right. If the game lies, we were lied to.
“Why? Almost everyone listened to trolls – ascended is not better than legendary so its not a new gear tread mill.”
Either you’re trolling or you fail at math.
Talk about semantics from a failed debater.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guild_Wars → http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Competitive_online_role-playing_game
Stop using synonyms.
Also, I’ll upload the first game’s box tonight if you want more statements on it.
“Where were the incentives to make people go back to the beginning areas?”
Scrapped, it’s all about gear grind now.
“If I am wrong, the people who made the game are wrong, wiki is wrong, and you are right?”
GW1 was advertised by ANet as a MMO. Wikipedia lists it as an MMO. Most gaming sites list it as an MMO. It’s becoming more and more and more you rather then “everyone”.
“Some people are hellbent on being over-emotional and rage-y, and with these people, any amount of reason or logic cannot combat their irrational drama.”
And some people are being overly hopeful that grind craft 2 won’t live up to it’s name.
“So are you saying that people are funneled into two locations in efforts to feasibly obtain Ascended gear?”
Actually, that’s not true, since I did a few runs before I stopped playing and they don’t drop enough for the 250 T6 mat you’ll need to make up for it.
“Not the bartender, not the waitress, and certainly not the customers. But there’s always that one guy at the end of the bar that says, “TECHNICALLY THAT COUNTS!””
Actually, it’s more like putting rum in a mug and then people saying it’s a lager because only lagers go into mugs.
And the argument only started 16 weeks later when someone said rum wasn’t an alcohol because it wasn’t served in mugs.
(edited by GADefence.5634)
“If they do that, they would be outright accused of Pay to Win methods, something all self respecting developers would want to avoid.”
Ok, I can see how you took that that way – I meant the skins, not the stats. Offering all backpack items and new armour for money as skins would probably have gotten them somewhere.
Same with finally letting us use tonics and costumes in combat, that would have boosted that sell.
But nope, instead the alienate their playerbase and a portion of them took refunds. Hope that 60$ * player base you shooed off amount of money as a negative to your year end was really worth it ANet.
“I then noted that it was still closer to being an MMO than gw1 is. Despite it clearly not being one.
It was point to prove the flaw in OP’s logic.
I thought you left GW2 to play PS2, How’d that work out for you?"
I’m still playing PS2 and MWO, waiting for more people to get unbugged on PS2.
I would still like to play GW2, and once ANet removed the gear grind or I get a bit more fed up (I assume by next monday) and demand my 300$ back for the game, I’m probably going to stop posting here.
Also, just saying something is doesn’t make it so. MUDs are MMOs, though I’m pretty sure you’re going to argue unless the game had gear grind a MUD was a single player game.
“Anet broke off the relationship. You’re hurt. Confused. You want to know what happened, what went wrong. Like any relationship gone bad, does it really matter in the end? Just time to move on……they have, and so should you.”
I don’t pay for a relationship. I payed for this product. I am moving on when I get my money, or my product, back.
If ANet really wanted to make cash they would have just added all the new back items to the gemstore. Instant money.
I think the real reason for this Ascended armour is that ANet made a deal with a form of aspirin company. Hearing all the english as a second language people arguing in favor of gear tiers with the barest understanding of the words they use is really giving me a headache.
“Yup, By their logic, red dead redemptions online sandbox mode was an MMO as well.
Funny thing is, it’s closer to being an MMO than GW1 is. But alas still not an MMO."
I love how you’re arguing what an MMO is and is not when you yourself admit you think a 16 man mutiplayer map is an MMO. . .
The one in the EB is a 3 hit “rich” node with a chance to spawn 2 ori. Basically, it’s a daily 5~ ori.
“You can’t say “I don’t want a vertical stat progression of gear” and in the same sentence say “I want the new gear to be available to me too”. That is being a hypocrite.”
Do I really need to bust out the english as a second language site this early? I didn’t say anything about what you qutoed.
If I had to pick, I’d want the new gear removed. Alternatively, all of us getting is basically for free would be a comprimise if no new gear was added.
I’m telling you why everyone is angry over the new 1%.
When the 99% is discarded because you only get “top tiered good stuff” from the 1%, we do get upset.
It’s like if you had a mansion but were forced to live in the shanty mold infested room with no heating. People could kitten “Sure but you still live in a mansion”, for the good it does you locked in the room you hate.
“Compare total stats of your character with full exotics, then replace the backpack and 2 rings with ascended and check your total stats. The difference is 3%”
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mad_Memoires:_Complete_Edition
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Endless_Quiver
I’m sorry, but have you even SEEN the top tiered new items? Items tend to add more stats your characther then you think – it’s why with your base 900 precision, you have ~2% crit chance, while that with 1’900 you have 60+~% crit chance.
I’m surprised there isn’t one that says “I enjoy PvE, I have lots of time to play, and I hate the new geargrind to the point I quit.”
“PS2 is an MMOFPS, a bad one, but it’s an MMO nonetheless. With gear progression to boot :P”
Sorry, there is no gear grind. There’s “play until this unlocks or pay us now”, which is similar but not the same. Gear grind keeps your playing until you can unlock it and gives you insane bonuses, those give you light bonuses you unlock while playing or can pay for.
But wait, ascended is light too! Not really, see. . . Everyone knew it would take 1~ week to get max level at a good play rate so they didn’t care. That’s the same as unlocking a good gun with a all your core class updates. The rest is variation. Variation can take time, and guess what – holy kitten horizontal progression ZOMG.
And yes I will admit PS2 is crap right now. Too big and too few players, but it’s also launch night and I heard a high % of player got locked out since their discount “on sale launch bundle” caused played to get locked out of their accounts.
“….exaggerating much? The Amazon rating is still pretty good despite the pathetic attempts to review-bomb it. You made it sound like the game suddenly had a 1.0 Metacritic or something, but it’s actually just 30-40 people review-bombing it on Amazon. That’s….really not that big a deal.”
I don’t remember you being able to change your review after posting it.
3 months, how many of THOSE were purchased before the 3 month mark where ANet said “screw y’all” and the reviews subsequently posted?
On a side note for the orange statement.
If you bought a paypaya, brought it home, put it in your fridge, and the seller came in and smashed an orange INTO said paypaya destroying it.
Yes you’d be pissed. This is what this is, something we did not want wrecked something we wanted.
(edited by GADefence.5634)
I love how he says “go underdogs get rid of the bland gameplay” when GW2 went from an independent (enough) 3 man startup, to a ground breaking MMO maker. . .
To World of Guildcraft 2 : Grind kittens. And it’s the last part, when they became the bland normalcy we see everywhere that cannot innovate or make fun, that he says it’s not unique.
Reminds me of the time I hosted a DnD game and got yelled at for making men-wolf and wolf-men when I should have been original and make shape shifting were wolves that used the lunar cycle and were vulnerable to silver.
Original!
I do adore dego’s logic, it’s like if we went back to Doom’s day. He’d be blasting FPS do not have jumping and anyone who tries to add jumping isn’t making an FPS as FPS’ do not have jumping so we’re all obviously wrong and stupid.
I won’t lie that at the moment I can’t. That being said, a few probably will (I really do not feel like booting up MMOdatabase and spending half an hour arguing with you here). That said, minecraft doesn’t have tier progression. Neither did the sims. Amongst the best selling games ever, right?
Or how about the face book games that rank up millions upon millions of players a month despite basically being filler with no tier progression other then cool/pretty items? (Yes, you can technically argue that farmville has tier since I think you at some point unlock a 3×3 plow from what I saw my mom play of it, but it looked like you could buy that early – that’s not progression, that’s annoying you into buying it. Please don’t be stupid enough to argue this without understanding it). Holy crap, that’s more then a lot of the none-world of war craft MMOs combined! In a game with no tiers! Holy shnazz!
This game promised us no gear tiers, was doing well, and could have added stuff like guild halls to keep us happy and busy. Instead, nexon deceided to buy it out, change the game’s progress completely, and well . . . I don’t have the metrics, but from what I noticed logging into random locations, it looks like LA is filled with more people yet the rest of the world has dropped. The overall looks like more people dropped then joined.
Time will tell won’t it? I predict F2P by next years unless Nexon lets go and ANet can do some damage control.
“You guys can’t name any other TRUE MMO, that have gear stat progression, because there are none. "
I would like to point out that the reason for that is simple, and the very same reason that until jumping became standard FPS didn’t bother adding it.
It’s par the course. They can get away with it, but guess what? Wow, 30% subscription loss. Name me another MMO with over 3 million players, look at facebook and tell me the 6~ multi game million players you see there isn’t that same.
I also assume you think PS2 isn’t a real MMO.
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“Suck it up they are a company they need to add new content to stay fresh it’s only been 3 months and alot of people are maxed out with exotics already idk about you but mmos are supposed to last years”
If I buy a car and two months later my car stop running on gasoline to run on diesel (or better, my electric car now needs gas), I still have a car. Shortly, I get a refund and you need to resell your car.
Do I CARE you need the money to make your second generation of car? No, you sold me X THEN turned it into Y without a forewarning or logical reason short of you felt like also selling car X to the gasoline using population. That constitutes false advertisement.
“Basically they like the idea of MMO’s but don’t like the grind. So they want a more arcade type game.”
Aren’t you the guy who argues that people only play FPS’ to level up?
Yeah sorry, stop square peg/round holing this argument.
We want an MMO without the gear grind.
I cared about being top geared.
Until ascended came out, then I stopped playing.
“The same people who are complaining about the new “tier” of gear are the same people who were complaining that there was nothing to do three weeks ago.”
A few probably, but in no way all of them. I was complaining for free waypoints so I could do more of the game, not that there wasn’t enough to do.
I think Nexon’s weird and/or working on a new MMO and the cut from 15% of NCSoft isn’t enough to not kill GW2 off. Or they have the absolute weirdest business sense ever and run their business the same way I find a game I like, namely, to randomely try whatever and hope something works out.
“Maybe I am just naive but I’m pretty sure that the people taking those decisions have a lot more experience than you.”
The people making this decision basically punched their regulars in the mouth, are promising new customers what they won’t be getting, and aren’t adding anything new the their supposed major profit maker (the gem store).
Being stagnant and pissing off a large portion of your clientelle is generally not how you smart people operate.
“Trust me if you try to take this to a court of law, you’ll fail. Advertisers have gotten extremely good at deceiving customers while still staying within the legal boundaries. In this case, they actually didn’t falsely advertise the product to you at the time of purchase and there’s nothing in the body of advertisement that assured customers that the product would stay a particular way forever (other than maybe it’s genre type).”
Depends on where you are. North America thinks advertising and lying are basically the same thing and threat it as “buyer beward” in every possible idea of the word.
We had a company in Canada yelling over why downright lying about what features are in bundles and on phones after they narrowly lost a long court debacle with hundred of people over weither or not advertising that a package does X Y Z for price L when a package did X and cost twice as much was false advertising.
Wasn’t dubya’s saying "Fool me once. . . . .
. . . . .
. . . .
Shame on me.
Fool me twice. . .
. . . .
. . .
. . . . .
. . . .
Well ya already fooled me once you can’t fool me again." ?
“Games X gives you slightly more option at top tier ERGO I AM RIGHT”.
I have not played BF3 or the new CoD games as they just started being stupid (like built in auto aim) to me and didn’t appease to me (oh kitten guess I hate FPSers now!) but I significantly doubt anyone who care if they removed it from there. Hell, we went on with it for years and there’s still quite a few FPS’ without tiered progression in them (can we really call +1 grenade tiered progression?)
You’re free to believe your way of the highway, as hilarious as this is, but please stop pestering me that any game that doesn’t fit your perfect vision must ultimately fail when you forget that 99% of them that fit your vision fail too.
“Even COD had weapon and gear progression. I don’t see level 5 guys crying on BF3 forums because the max level 50 has better tricked out guns….
And hitting 50 in any Battlefield game IS a grind.
Grind is good, Imagine starting off BF3 will weapon and gear kits? Get old fast huh? That’s what you guys are trying to do here. That’s why it never works in MMO’s they aren’t meant to be “fair” for all. Just like life, you get what you put into it."
Actually, the last CoD game I played was 4 and the guns were pretty much 100% balanced. I only played BF:BC2 and the strongest gun was the starting SMG by far.
Also, there’s a few things – 1: Does everyone QUIT when they get 50? Didn’t think so. 2: Is it required? No, but played do like seeing the pop up that says “new X unlocked”. Generally most of those games don’t give you more powerful equipment, but more variety as you level.
And 3: It takes way WAY less time then 90 hours to max out all the FPS’ I played short of I think blacklight, which might take about 90~ hours.
“This game has a FAR better core content and mechanics compared to the failed games.”
Actually, this game reminds me a lot of WHO when it came out and I had a lot of fun with that as well. . .
Until I got to end game grind.
“Think about it logically. Do you think they created this last event and the FotM instance, along with all the gear in the last two months?”
Of course not. FotM took a long time to make. The gear models probably took a while to make too.
However, the stats and new tier was obviously a last minute addition. It’s really really easy to add stuff like tiers and stats, considering it’s as simple as looking on your database and just modifying numbers.
Now, how about you try thinking logically and sanely.