Guild Wars 2

I now use SBow, SBeast, SBreaker and SBehe as acronyms.

Same with BM (Beastmastery) or BMastery and BMode.

Ranger have it real bad with AoE. Mesmer is bad too, without Chronomancer wells.

You know what’s better ? A year ago, they removed one bounce from Axe, then gave another bounce to Thief SBow and buffed Choking Gas damage. A long time ago, they removed throwing traps, our only way to do AoE damage at range.

Splitblade damage is still unsplit and does more damage in PvP (Still don’t understand that move).

The Jacaranda and the Iboga will be our saviours… Even then, I don’t want to rely on them.

anduriell.6280:

It doesn’t matter what whoever think Sbeast is to be camped or not, if they don’t add the pet swapp and mark my words we will end up camping in one pet only as we already can see the players did in the beta.

Was talking about it with my friend and YES ! So much this ! Most of players will camp a pet with Unflinching Fortitude or Spiritual Reprieve, just in case they will need their F3 in a bad situation.

It’s actually a bad idea to swap pets around, because of pet swap cooldown to come back on your initial pet. So, it makes sense to camp a pet, just because of ‘’what if?’‘. Will I need to choose 2 same archetype pets so I’m sure to have Unflinching Fortitude whenever I want ?

Also, another camping situation is that if you’re fused, exemple the Jacaranda, will you take the risk to unmerge and gets slapped a 10 secs cooldown ? ‘’What if’’ you need the heal ?

It’s bad for active gameplay and won’t promote pet swapping.

anduriell.6280:

If anet feels the Beast abilities (F3) are too strong ton be casted twice they can share the CD. But i don’t think it would be fair just to keep hindering the class.

That would be fine to me.

I agree, good idea.

Also, they should fuse Refined Toxins and Poison Master. It’s against Ambidexterity in Master and Wilderness Knowledge in GM. Very hard to go against them when both traits are underpowered.

It would make much more sense. From a game that I play (Grimdawn), the skills had a % chance on crit before, but they changed to 100% chance on crit or 20-30% on hit, depending of the procs/skills. They knew it was not good, so they changed.

It means you need to get a high precision to make it worthwhile and it’s not CRanger forte. Spotter is in competition with Hidden Barbs, so a CRanger will most likely take Hidden Barbs over Spotter, missing out even more on precision/crit chance.

I agree with you OP. I tried Dagger MH with Viper and full Berserker with Ferocity pumped, both are very bad. They didn’t change anything about Dagger. I also didn’t expect them to change anything for any classes, but some classes had changes. I think Deadeye was one of them too.

Dolyak was still bugged. I mean, most of the Stances are very boring. What differentiate them from Shouts ? They could be called Shouts and it would fits. People are getting excited for the shared half stability with Dolyak, but it’s all it takes to make people excited !?

We know very well Sic Em is going to get a nerf bat. If you look at the traits in Beastmastery, they give half of what they do. I wouldn’t be surprised if Sic Em gets nerfed at least to 20%.

IMO, SBeast is still clunky and they need to revisit a lot of things to make it fluid.

Iboga and/or Bristleback for Condi.

Jacaranda and something for Power (Smokescale).

Next Longbow legendary. In a year… /sobs

I find GS very handy in every builds, mostly for movement and blocks. Then, it all depends of your build. Go SB or Axe for Condi, then LB, GS or Sword for Power.

Astralaria is my favourite.

Aomine.5012:

Sword + Axe swap with Axe + Warhorn (Vicious Quarry): 21~22k~

Axe + Warhorn no swapping (Vicious Quarry): 17.5k~18.5k~

Also Axe + WH is a vastly under-appreciate weapon set because the damage is actually higher than GS in a long run even when not swapping weapon at all. It also provide convenient boons and can hit up to 2 targets at once in a large area. (So if you can’t cleave 2+ targets with your melee weapon or LB, it’s best to use axe + warhorn.

Interesting, always suspected Axe/Warhorn to be one of the best set we have, all buffed, but was too lazy to do any kind of testing to show.

Will be even more interested to see BMastery traits in BMode and a Ferocious pet. Also, if ANet didn’t forget about the Splitblade split… Splitbade, if unsplit, is a DPS increase.

LB advantage in PvP and WvW is really just the range.

Now, I like it better. It does challenge my view I have about SBow CRanger.

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

Bleed ticks from condi ranger range from 11k to 19k.
Bleed ticks from condi rev range from 800-1500 (Just geomancy procs)
So yeah… 33% bonus bleed vs 25% bonus bleed… not apples to apples.

We can’t really know right now the full bleed damage, but I agree with you. Just looked into it, Rev doesn’t have many bleeding skills beside SB1, SB2 and AoE Sharpening Stones. The bleed damage won’t compete with CRanger : Splitblade (5) and Winter’s Bite (3). SBow has Crossfire (1) and Crippling Shot (3 on SBeast) + Sharpening Stones (10). SBeast : Bristleback F1 (3), F2 (5). Primal Cry (3)

About the Burn, I’m sure it will surpass CRanger with Mace/Axe and SB4.

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

While I get the impression you actually play ranger, I don’t get that with Rev. Energy is a much bigger problem than you state and it’s not subjective. If you spam just shortbow 2 on CD for max bleeding, that’s 5 energy every 3 seconds when you gain 5 energy every second. That’s 1/3 of your energy for just spamming that “low energy skill.” If you spam shortbow 3 on CD, that’s 10 energy every 6 second so that’s also 1/3 of your energy right there. Short bow 4 also looks like a good burst skill and that’s 15 energy every 8 seconds. Shiro for a 30 energy stun break, Kalla with “aoe sharpening stones” with 25 energy, heroic command which costs 20 energy, and a heal that costs 10 energy. You don’t just wait 6 seconds to get a stunbreak unless you do nothing but auto attack.

Yes indeed, I play Ranger more than my Revenant. It’s a bias.

That’s true, if you keep spamming your skills, it does drain your energy. The advantage of the Rev, can be also a bad thing. It has a lower cooldown on skills, but it doesn’t mean it should spam the skills it has available. It’s the same with any other profession skills, you don’t spam your skills or you won’t have any left to use.

1 sec = 5 energy. So at the end, even if you keep spamming SB2, you still get +10 energy every 3 secs (15-5=10). If it wasn’t of the cooldown, people would keep spamming skills and cry about energy management.

If I use Lightning Reflexes, I should be very sure to use it, because it’s on a long cooldown. The advantage the Rev has with Riposting Shadows, is that energy will regenerate and he will be able to use it whenever he has 30 energy (6 cooldown). One has a 32/40 cooldown penalty, one has 6 secs of penalty if it only uses AA, but we know it won’t most likely happen. So, it not might be 6 secs cooldown, but I’m pretty sure it’s shorter than 32/40 secs of cooldown. That’s why I say it’s hard to compare, because both system have pros and cons, in different situations.

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

There is also a glaring lack of mallyx/corruption which any condi Rev/renegade in PvE or PvP is going to take while you mention invocation, devastation and obviously renegade. Of mace/axe+staff, which weapon does the shortbow replace for PvP? Staff and a you have no defense. Mace/Axe and reflects will stop most of your condi application. Your hypothetical condi renegade with a shortbow doesn’t get to invoke 3 legends with 4 trait lines and spam all skills because “energy is subjective.”

That’s why I was talking about projectiles in my other skills part : Renegade SB2, SB4, SB5 are not projectiles (Actually, I have reservations for SB2 and SB5. I don’t see SB2 getting reflected back at us, but SB5 might (needs testing)). I don’t think it would be safe to remove the Staff, so it will be between Mace/Axe and SBow.

All Ranger SBow skills are projectiles. What happen with a Condi SBeast ? Staff is out. It will only have Sword, GS and Dagger left if he doesn’t want to get reflected.

I also don’t think Renegade Stance is PvP worthy (high energy utilities and not very useful in PvP). It will be most likely Shiro/Mallyx or Shiro/Jalis that will be played with Renegade. I see a good synergy with Devastation, Corruption and Renegade. Changing Devastation to something else if too squishy.

‘’Energy is subjective’’, might not be the best words I used, but I believe Revenant has to manage their energy, the same as other profession have to manage their cooldowns. Having Energy is not a free pass to spam the skills, which people seem to think and do. Stance Swap also helps Revenant a lot with the energy management.

For PvP, I’m holding my comments and still have reservations (Will see at PoF forreal), but I still say, and said, that SBow Ranger is better in dueling settings. It has better mobility and cleanses.

Thank you for your comments. Not everything is black and white and you brought food for thought.

Dahkeus.8243:

Krispera.5087:

If you have no arguments and have no constructive answers, then you can go derail somewhere else or go back under the bridge you come from.

Your post is built on such a flimsy, ridiculous premise that there’s nothing really constructive to answer with.

If it is so, don’t participate. You brought nothing.

Dahkeus.8243:

Your list of similarities doesn’t matter when there’s an even longer list of differences that matter even more.

What are those long list of differences ? That matter more ? I’m here talking strictly about traits and skills that are similar.

You wanted me to talk about Grace of the Land, Frost and Sun spirit ? (Which are the only things left, with the coming of PoF, that will make Ranger meta in Raids) When they have nothing to do with it ? You want me to talk about Alacrity from Renegade then ?

If you see no problem with Crossfire needing to flank to get 3 secs of bleed and that Shattershot does it without flanking… Good, then the discussion doesn’t matter to you.

Dahkeus.8243:

You’re also arguing for one of the strongest weapons in the PvE meta for the class.

Oh yes, the weapon that you only use when Axe/Torch is on cooldown as an afterthought. LoyF, the SBow trait, not even traited ! Sure, leave it that way.

Again, brought nothing to the discussion, but snarky comments. Easier to brush off something than coming with something.

If you have information, because it seems I clearly don’t get it, by your tone and comments, then be happy to share it with us.

Skuzz.6580:

So one of the main weapons of the top ranger spec from HoT needs a buff? say what now?

Being Meta for Raids doesn’t make it a top weapon.

Skuzz.6580:

Short Bow #2 skill is just so strong (I hope you are aware this can stack on 1 target if you are close enough)
Short Bow #4 and #5 are CC skills, and #3 is combined with #2 a much-needed mobility skill.

I’m well aware of what a SBow can do, as you can see with my long ugly boring post. I’m also talking about weak traits it has to use to make it complete.

Poison Volley is strong, if you shotgun it. Not using at point blank ? It’s terrible.

Renegade SBow can do better, in every way, except maybe for skirmishing/dueling and mobility (thanks to Quick Shot). If you use Riposting Shadows (30 energy = 6 secs of waiting), it does nearly the same as Quick Shot at the same cooldown, but instead to just give Swiftness, it stun breaks and remove movement-impairing conditions. Or use Lightning Reflexes at 40 secs cooldown untraited.

Yes, it’s better than TaV, just by because it’s easier to get it.

5% Damage and 5% Condition Damage for 4 secs is barely noticeable. We can’t even remove boons, so it makes even harder to land it. Fact is, you will not make a build around it, if it happens then you’re like ‘’meh, at least it’s something’’.

Also, disabling means HARD CC, not soft. Could have added Soft CC if they wanted to make it easily available to SBeast. Should have worked like Predator’s Onslaught. Which is the same thing, minus the movement-impaired part and not being a GM.

Totally agree, but I don’t see them changing Beast skill to F2 (even if it would feel more natural). F2 should always has been the ’’Special’’ attack.

The Pet Icon tho, that thing confused me.

I wish the Pigs F2 were working like Thief steal and would store the bundle for us, instead to make us pick and then use it.

Aomine.5012:

Ranger SB is more of a pvp weapon + raid weapon.
Renegade SB is more of PVE tagging weapon that’re better at fighting hordes.

Agree. Ranger SB is more mobile and easier to control.

I have reservations, but I think it could become a Raid/Instance weapon with Mace/Axe rotation, just to get SB4 Burn and Fire field, and waste energy with SB3 and SB5 for the conditions.

Aomine.5012:

Renegade SB 2 and 3 are all terrible + waste of energy btw.
Renegade F2 is god-awful waste of energy too.

SB2 more PvP oriented. SB3 is more PvE and meh, its savior is the Projectile Finisher that can work with SB4 in Instance.

As for F2, despite its high energy, I think it can become a good Burn/Burst skill. If not used in Instances or PvP, it’s still very good in PvE and WvW.

Aomine.5012:

I’d even go as far as not using the legend itself entirely and just grab the traitline purely for the bonus stat. It’s a dps upgrade to many default Revenant build.

Yes, totally, the buff it receives from Kalla’s Fervor is solid. + Might and Alacrity sharing.
I can see the Utilities (Daze and soft CC) working well on a Power Hammer, but not on other kinds of build.

The Bleed sharing can become handy in an Instance/Raid setting. 10 bleeds for 5 targets, a total of 50 bleeds.

Didn’t really want it to become a Revenant thread, but it was kinda inevitable since I started with a comparison. I believe they could fuse some traits, like Hidden Barbs with Sharpened Edges and stop giving Ranger wonky traits that give temporary effects (4 secs 10% condition duration on dodge (not evade) and 4 secs 5% condition damage on hard CC)

I love how I get some people worked up, when it’s a thread asking to buff Ranger SB, because it clearly lacks in many ways.

It’s really not a thread to bash on Revenant, but to show you the similarities done better in an another profession.

Snowywonders.1378:

You didnt really address the fact that there’s energy costs and that rev sb doesnt really have defense.

I did and the only defense Ranger SB has over Revenant SB is Quick Shot, which Riposting Shadows can be used to have the same and better results. So what else, do Ranger SB has as defense ?

As for Energy Management, I also talked about it and it’s difficult to talk about it, because it all comes to being subjective.

What you don’t take in consideration is low energy skill, like Shattershot that takes no Energy. 2, 3, 4 is still low energy. The only high energy skill is Scorchrazor.

What also you don’t take in consideration, is that you can swap Stance to get your 50% energy again. Now slap a short cooldown skill over it.

You want to talk about Energy Management, but you don’t talk about Cooldown on Ranger skills.

FYI, you get 5 energy every 1 sec. It takes 10 secs to get 50% energy. Since, people can say ‘’Energy Management’‘, but don’t come with calculations… Just say I use Scorchrazor, it has 10 secs cooldown. It uses 20 energy, which is 4 secs of waiting. 14 secs of ’’real’’ cooldown.

Snowywonders.1378:

You’re comparing a single weapon that each have different advantages in different game modes.

You fail the see the many similarities between the traits and skills. If Revenant SB skills and traits weren’t a copy paste from Ranger SB, then the thread wouldn’t have existed.

Snowywonders.1378:

Also, one is an elite spec weapon, deliberately stronger than core weapons.

Not quite the majority. Since we are in Ranger forum, is Dagger better than core Dagger professions ? The many threads about it seems to say it’s pretty bad.

Is the Rev or Chrono shield better than Warrior or Guardian ? I don’t believe so, they are all pretty good. Except, the Engineer shield.

Is DH LB better than Ranger LB ? Not really, they do similar damage, but completely different roles.

Is Thief SB better than Rev SB ? Not really, they have different purpose. One is flexible and support oriented, one is Condi oriented. I put them on the same ’’rank’’ of effectiveness. Yet, I don’t think I would put Ranger SB on the same level.

Snowywonders.1378:

Your post fails.

Your post bring nothing to take down my arguments. Did you even read ?

Low effort.

Dahkeus.8243:

APPLES TO APPLES!

APPLES TO APPLES!!!!

If you have no arguments and have no constructive answers, then you can go derail somewhere else or go back under the bridge you come from.

Forgot to add that Predator’s Cunning is very underpowered when you take in consideration Revenant Assassin’s Annihilation (trait), Focused Siphoning (trait) and Soulcleave’s Summit (elite).

Predator’s Cunning should works whenever you hit a poisoned target. NO ICD, like the Rev traits.

Mention 2 : I didn’t take in consideration the Revenant energy management, but hey you can simply swap stance to get your 50% back and keep spamming all you want. Meanwhile, the Soulbeast needs to get out of BMode, wait 10 secs, get back in BMode, get out, 10 secs, etc.

I also didn’t take in consideration the influence of the pet, but it’s a moot point outside of PvP. The pet is barely making any difference to overall DPS outside of PvP. + clunky pets, enough said.

Before you say ‘’apples and orange’‘s. No, it’s apples and apples. They have so many similarities that I’m still surprised nobody is talking about Revenant (Renegade) shortbow.

Crossfire vs Shattershot :

• Bleeding : Crossfire do 1.5 secs of bleeding, 3 secs if flanking. Shattershot is always 3 secs, no need to flank. To get more Bleed, the ranger will have to trait Sharpened Edges, which is in a pretty bad shape. You need to have a high precision to make this trait valuable. If you don’t, just forget it.

• Piercing and bleed damage : Both have to be traited. LoyF only gives flanking bonuses (except Concussion Shot). Heartpiercer gives 25% bleed damage. In order to get more bleed damage, the Ranger will have to trait Hidden Barbs, which gives 33% more bleed damage.

Results : Crossfire is only good when Flanking, it’s sole advantage. Shattershot doesn’t need to flank and needs less investment to make it work, making it better for general play.

AoE :

• Ranger Shortbow has nothing of mention for AoE, but the Revenant Shortbow is one crazy AoE machine. Heartpiercer can pierces 5 target and Shattershot can AoE 5 targets. You know what they do ? One pierce = 5 AoE targets. 5 pierce = 25 AoE targets. Also, every hit do Bleeding.

Results : Just crazy AoE. They actually just mixed Crossfire and Fragmentation Shot of Engineer MH Pistol.

Condition Duration :

• In order to get longer bleed, the Ranger has to trait LoyF and has to dodge. Not just evade with Quick Shot, it has to use the Endurance bar dodge. It gives 10 % condition duration. (Always hated those dodging traits in order to get more damage, it’s just eh…).

• For the Revenant, it needs to trait Blood Fury, but it always gives 25% bleeding duration. No wonky mechanic glued to it, just a simple duration.

Results : Ranger Condition Duration trait is useless and most likely never used. Revenant is easy.

Fury and Critical Chance :

• Ranger : Hidden Barbs is against Spotter, which gives Precision. It’s a loss here. One would have WS traited with WK if playing a CRanger with Shortbow, which helps a little with the Fury uptime on a CRanger. To get more Fury from Skirmishing, the Ranger will have to swap weapon all the time.

• Revenant : It gets Fury when it crits a target below 50 % hp and more Critical Chance if a full endurance. A total of 53% critical chance increased. If the Revenant uses Roiling Mists, then it goes up to 73% without much investment from items or skills. Just pure simple traits.

Results : Revenant gets easier access to Critical Chance and Fury than Ranger. Revenant just needs to hit, Ranger has to use mid cooldown skills to triggers Fury.

Condition Damage : Deadly pets and Kalla’s Fervor:

• Deadly pets : Can give +200 Condition Damage and +100 Precision. CRanger, alone, will most likely not to have Might or not many stacks.

• Soulbeast’s Twice as Vicious : I’m so ashamed to mention it, but Condition Damage is Condition Damage. You have to disable (hard cc) to get a pitiful 5% condition damage buff that lasts 4 secs, big LOL.

• Kalla’s Fervor (12 secs easy stacking buff, aka permanent) : Non traited, it gives 10 % Condition Damage and 150 Ferocity. Traited, it gives 20 % Condition Damage and 300 Ferocity. With Heroic Command, it gives 5 might (150 Condition Damage, +150 Power) or 10 might (300 Condition Damage, +300 Power)

Results : Bleed Damage on Revenant just got higher than Ranger. Revenant gets more buff in general. Ranger just gets Deadly Pets small stats increase, but needs to get in Beastmode to get it.

Other skills :

• Bloodbane Path : Is a non projectile Rapid Fire that gives 3 bleed. Less damage, but shorter cooldown (3 secs). Closest comparison is Crippling Shot (12 secs cooldown Projectile) that will give 3 bleeding as a form of a buff in Beastmode.

• Sevenshot : Is an inverted Poison Volley. So far so good, until it you see it has 20% projectile finisher and Poison Volley don’t.

• Spiritcrush : Is a mix of Muddy Terrain Slow and (better) Flame Trap. All this, a non projectile at 900 range. Shorter cooldown, better burning and better damage than Flame Traps. But, hey, don’t make Traps throweable, they would be like Grenades engineer ! Now, now, a better comparison would be Narcotic Spores (Projectile ? Again !?) in Beastmode with the Iboga. Which does Confusion, which is a condition that ranger doesn’t have, so it means you won’t be able to stack it high. Thanks, but no thanks.

• Concussion Shot vs Scorchrazor : Concussion shot Daze if not flanking, Stun if flanking, 25 secs cooldown. Nothing else. Scorchrazor is an width aoe casted at range that KD and Burn, 10 secs cooldown. Scorchrazor might be slower and harder to hit someone with it, but it can be casted 3 times before you have a chance to cast a Concussion Shot that will only Daze if you didn’t flank your target. Oh and again, Scorchrazor is not a projectile and Concussion Shot is.

• Razorclaw’s Rage : Is an AoE shared Sharpening Stone, on a shorter cooldown. Yes, you can’t spam right away all the bleeds like Sharpening Stone. Yes, you can’t trait like Sharpening Stone to remove condition. Still, I had to make the comparison. It has pros and cons, which is alright.

Conclusion : Shortbow Ranger is getting shafted with clunky mechanic and underpowered traits that should be fused and buffed. The only place where Shortbow Ranger will shine is in PvP skirmishing/dueling style or Roaming, because of Quick Shot, but that’s it. The Revenant can use Shiro Riposting Shadows and do the same.

Mention : I tried to not include Renegade Utilities Skills, since you can also play without it. So, don’t come and be smartypants and say Renegade utilities are bad. Nobody forces you to use Renegade stance.

TLDR : Renegade Shortbow is Shortbow CRanger 2.0. Needs serious buff.

Taste for Danger is meh for PvP. Your 2 birds put nothing on the table, they are clunky and squishy pets. I understand the synergy with Beastmastery F2 line, but Birds are just going to die in seconds in PvP. Get the Druid line to get Druidic Clarity, which is a condition clear and Stunbreak, you won’t need Protect Me.

I normaly play Shoutbow Druid with some tweaks to it, but I wanted to spice this season a little. Now, I’m having success with Condi Druid this season, because it is not meta, so people aren’t used to it. It’s more or less your first build with some tweaks to it.

Sage Amulet has no precision or high crit chance to make a difference, so Sharpened Edges is useless. Now, sometimes I change Muddy Terrain to Spike Trap (and put Trapper’s Expertise) depending of the composition of the other team. Lots of condis (thief, mesmer, necro, guardian), I will take Muddy Terrain. Lots of blocks and bruisers (warrior, ele, engi), I will take Spike Trap. Muddy Terrain is very flexible, it can removes condi, CC people in place, but the Slow buffed it and you can use it when people are stomping downed.

Since I lose Beastly Warden or other good CC from a Power druid with GS or LB, I took heavy CC pets, such as Wolf and Electric Wyvern (despite its buggy as hell F2). Sometimes, I’ll change the Wyvern to Smokescale.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vNAQJAVWjEqQNL2xCOsAVLWmEM4faS9pyMtScLumAQDYCUiKHD-TpRAQBo8CA0j9HmYZgQeEA8whAAAPAAA

As for your Bunker Druid, it’s a little different from the Meta, but still solid. Protective Ward or Nature’s Vengeance ? I guess it’s up to you.

For myself, I never really liked S/D Staff Druid bunker. Too boring and too support.

LMAO a condi thief player crying over condi cleanses.

Your build is like top cancer in PvP and WvW roaming, you have no grounds to cry.

Make what you would use the most.

I was deciding between Sharur and TSB, I went with Sharur for my Rev. Sword, I don’t use it enough on my ranger and other chars to validate my choice.

Also, I’m very happy with Fiery Dragon Sword.

xarallei.4279:

you need to be at max range for it to even do the best damage (useless for raids)

Ah, I was saying that the cone stay the same as right now, but with a ground triangle/aoe target on the ground, because you can’t really free cast it (it will aim the ground without a target).

xarallei.4279:

it’s bugged and doesn’t work properly on uneven terrain or if you have any sort of object blocking part of it.

But, yes… I didn’t think about other bugs that it will create.

Axe is viable in PvP, just not used in high level. I’m not saying there is specific weapons for modes, I’m saying there are weapons that excel better at certain modes.

I don’t believe making Axe a melee range weapon will solve it’s viability in high level PvP. Nothing stops you to play Axe at melee range. It’s one of its advantage when you look at the Longbow. Its damage will stay constant at any range.

Again, you don’t sit in one weapon set in PvP. Use the secondary weapon as a leap/evade one and GS fits well.

Is SBow used in high level PvP ? Not really. Is it viable ? Kinda. It has poison, evade, daze/stun, which are both things you asked. Is it used ? No. SBow, on paper, is super PvP oriented, but it’s still not meta PvP.

You don’t see many Hammer rev in PvP, but it’s used in WvW. Is Hammer viable in PvP ? Arguably, yes. It’s good at what it does best, huge burst damage. Is it the best weapon for Rev in PvP ? Not really.

It’s not because something is not meta that it’s bad.

shadowpass.4236:

@Krispera, what power ranger build uses MH Axe and is viable in high tier play? I don’t think there is one.

Our offhands are fine. OH Dagger 4 could use its range increase back, but other than that, Axe is pretty useless in PvP as a MH weapon in competitive play.

It’s still used in other contents than PvP. I’m more of a PvPer myself, but I’ve come to realise that weapons don’t have to be viable in all mode.

Your suggestions aren’t going to make it more viable with poison or evade/leap.

If you follow meta builds, sure, you’ll never see someone play Axe. Nobody used S/D with Staff before Season 4-6, yet it became meta because it was posted on it. If you want to do your own thing, Axe is doing just fine as a burst/support oriented pet/beastmastery.

It’s good at what it does : might stacking, damage and debuffing. Condi for those that use it as condi.

shadowpass.4236:

Also, if Ricochet was made into a melee attack that applied a condition like poison, that would be beneficial too.

Hum, no ? You have Sword that can put poison and now Dagger MH, both at melee. Leave Axe at what it does, being used in both Power or Condi builds.

shadowpass.4236:

Ricochet is pretty much useless. It doesn’t do any damage at all, is super slow, and no one really cares about it.

Ricochet hits hard and the AA is fine, it only needs to have it’s bounce back.

As for Evade, you have OH Dagger. I do agree that we could have at least have better leap or evades in MH/OH choices. They could actually rework OH Axe.

Well, they can say that if they want, but if they don’t do any changes to ’’shotgun’’ skills, it’s just talking for talking.

Splitblade and Poison Volley were always weird, because they were on ’’ranged’’ weapon. Same problems arise with Rifle (Blunderbuss) and OH (Blowtorch) Engi, which clearly push the ’’Shotgun’’ play style.

TBH, I don’t think they will do anything about them. It was only specified to the Renegade, making a Bleeding Volley on Renegade new Shortbow would have made it boring, so they inverted and made an argument for it.

The 1200 range is fine, not all our attacks have to be so far. We have two 1200 range attacks from pets, Jacaranda has the power version and the Iboga the condi one (not a floor targetted AoE).

Now, what is not fine, we don’t have more choices. There are no even buffs (OK, maybe Bristleback, you crazy condi LB players) you could take from pets to buff the LB range game play.

So, what happen if I want to use a Ferocious pet to get more Power and Ferocity ? Nothing, really. Worldly Impact is melee range. Only the Spider in the Ferocious Archetype has range (900) and all the others pets are melee range. You could go with more supportive pet in Ferocious such as Moa for the Heal and the Devourer for Evade and Knockback.

At least, there is One Wolf Pack.

:/

Nah, better give Shortbow Revenant/Renegade a piercing AoE (that does AoE everytime it hits/pierces, by the way) and give more bounces to Shortbow Thief (because they actually asked for it ? Like, no, lol).

Shortbow Revenant AA is actually Shortbow Ranger piercing + Pistol Engineer AoE, but with better conditions and power coefficient. Yay, power creep.

At time point, I gave up about ANet doing any significant buff to Axe. How did they even let Winter’s Bite pass to PvE, but not Splitblade ? Ranger has little access to AoE/Tagging, why make it even harder by removing a bounce ?

Oh, and if Splitblade would stop aiming the ground when I free cast without having a target. that would be great. Make it an aimed cone AoE if you need, like you did with Shortbow Revenant #3, ANet.

Totally agree !

Instead to make it an active play, people will most likely play a guessing game and turtle with one pet.

Active play : You’re on Smokescale, you need to Stun Break ? You Swap to Black Bear.
Annoying stationary play : I’m on Black Bear, in case something happens, because it would take me 20 secs to come back on the Black Bear.

Yes, putting a number on the BMode cooldown makes you realise it’s a 20 sec cooldown to come back on your first pet. Out of first pet (10 secs) + Out of second pet (10 secs) + back to first pet. It’s actually longer than 20 secs, with all the juggling around.

And no, it doesn’t make the pet useless. Using pet for their F2 and burst/utility is still very useful.

Shouldn’t Mirage triggers Ambush on Shatter ? At this point, they are underpowered and leaving them this way but activating on shatter would be alright.

To waste endurance to get access to Ambush is dumb and the whole profession is centered about it, when they should have centered it over Shatter mechanic, which Mesmer has plenty of traits already.

It fits really well with Riddle of Sand and Shards of Glass.

It would make it just viable enough, imo.

I tried Power Sourge and you do so much AoE, it’s crazy. It’s a little harder, since you need to plant your Sand Shades and all, but overall, it’s doable.

Yep, barrier need to be more durable.

Played a more for a while. It really NEEDS a PET SWAP in Beast Mode. You can’t react to something happening if you need to get out of BMode, swap pet, wait for 10 secs, then merge, get your f3 heal or immunity.

Instead to promote Pet swapping, it promotes Stationary play. You will less likely to switch pet around. You might sit longer on your bear or your support pet, while waiting for something to happen, instead to just be on your more offensive one.

It means, you will most likely need to be always out of BMode and wait for something to happen, then either swap to the other pet or stay with the one you have out, merge, then use the skill you need. How annoying is that ? How many precious seconds are we losing from juggling around ?

When a Rev needs its Stun Break from the other Stance, it doesn’t need to wait 10 secs, it swaps. When an Ele want to use another spell from another attunement, it doesn’t need to wait 10 secs, it swaps right away and use it.

What if you’re in PvE raiding ? So you want to use that Bristleback bleed buff, you can use it before combat, great, but it doesn’t resolve the longer problem. You want to get on your Iboga or Spider, you get out of BMode, wait for 10 secs, get in, do its skills… Then you want to get back on your Bristleback for your bleed buff, so you need to get out, wait 10 secs, get in, use it, again and again.

When you think clearly about it, it’s a 20 secs cooldown to come back on the first merged pet.

This is not fluid.

IMO, we need Pet Swap in BeastMode for less headache.

Tested with 4 games so far. I feel like swapping in BeastMode will make it more fluid. The on and off and swap, then on really breaks the fluidity.

Some skills are clunky. So far, Jacaranda is really a good pet.

Dolyak stance is bugged. Doesn’t work.

In instances (raids, fractals), yes, Condi Ranger is better. In all other modes, Power Ranger is better.

BadSanta.6527:

d/wh is can be done ?

Dagger coefficient seems to be competitive to Sword. I don’t see why not. The limit to theorycrafting is your creativity

A/W will hit hard with Soulbeast. Like jcbroe said, it will be mostly boon based build.

I’m already thinking to use a Ferocious pet with it. How much Ferocity/Damage will I be able to stack and the damage I will do with Smoke Assault. + 25 Might and perma Fury ? + One Wolf Pack.

Then use D/A or GS as melee secondary set.

Musha.4025:

And how is the loss of all those attributes that exist on the pet, even for 1 second, elite?

How is the loss of not having the option and use all the new skills SBeast has access to ?

Maybe SBeast is not for you after all.

Why are so many people glued to being stuck in Beastmode is beyond me. Beastmode doesn’t mean Godmode.

It opens you options, not removing you anything. The advantage from SBeast is that you can CONTROL your pet skills, which you can’t right now.

What’s better ? A random Smoke Assault/Knockdown from the Smokescale or only when you decide ?

Musha.4025:

It seems that this was only made to pander to the pet-whiners.

It does fix that problem, but the most effective way would probably to play In and Out of BMode. At least, it gives the Ranger another option to ’’swap’’ the pet before it dies or that it doesn’t become an hindrance in some contents.

Are we sure about that ? I remember very well on that AP raw video that when she hovers on Crippling Anguish of the Iboga in BeastMode, it doesn’t say ’’Beast’’, but when she does on the F3, it’s written ’’Beast’’. Balance wise, it would make sense.

If it’s like you say OP, then yes, Beast traits are getting way more interesting, but harder to control the effects from the traits. Exemple, Crippling Anguish is a 5 sec cooldown skill, will I want to waste my Beastly Warden just because I want to spam the skill ?

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Crippling_Anguish

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Invigorating Bond may actually be useful now… May.

Was thinking using it with the Owl or other supportive related pets, like the Jacaranda. Spiritual Reprieve + Invigorating Bond = 6.8k heal, Photosynthesize + Invigorating Bond = 5k heal.

Also, take in consideration Quickness on demand, Vulnerability and Lifesteal damage (small, but still).

Like I said, the only thing left good for the Sword is dancing around.

It would feel better yes, but I don’t think that’s what they want. The next problem is Beast skills spamming, exemple having 2 supportive pet would give easy 8k-9k heal and 2 Stout pets would give long Immunity. So either make them a global cooldown or that you can’t use pets of the same Archetype/Beast Family

Bristleback+Iboga/Spider without In/Out of BM would be godsend for Condi builds.

But, making Pet Swap traits work that way would be very good too. I already dread the In/Out juggling.

jcbroe.4329:

The seem weak and scattered in their effectiveness.

I mean, time will tell, but I’m finding the traits for this spec the least impressive out of almost every other spec so far with this expac, and thqose tooltips from pet skills are NOT inspiring damage numbers.

Exactly. They are mostly uncreative and uninspired. For starters, stance is a boring mechanic, so I waited to see the traits if they were going to be more exciting. They are not.

Fresh Reinforcement : Another type of WHaO. Doesn’t work the same, but kinda.
Live Fast : Most are long cooldown. Fury ? Ranger has plenty. Quickness ? Good, fine.
Unstoppable Union : Break Stun and Unblockable. PvP oriented.

Furious Strength : Buff, but boring. No flavor.

Essence of Speed : Who will keep spamming Quickness just to get 2 secs more on each boon ? Meh at best.
Second Skin : Oh yay, tanky spec. NM + WS. Good, but boring.
Predator’s Cunning : One with some flavor. It will work well with Dagger, SB and Vulture Stance.

Twice as Vicious : Boring and forgettable. 5% damage and 5% condi damage ? That’s it !? Just another buff like Furious Strenght. No flavor.

Eternal Bond : Save your life. Mostly PvP oriented. Meh about it.
Leader of the Pack : The only one with a strong flavor. Should be 75% duration, 50% is too small.
Oppressive Superiority : And another boring buff.

I get it that if you add all the buffs from Soulbeast to Ranger core traits, it becomes very big. I still find it boring and lazy. Soulbeast traits lack of identity.

Most of Beast traits are in BM (another one in NM) and there is only one in SBeast.
Stances have one trait.
BeastMode have 3 traits, which are mostly PvP oriented.
Dagger gets one indirect trait.

Reliable Leap ?
Reliable Quickness ?
More of less the same coefficient ?

It’s going to be taken over Sword dancing leap and quickness on evade trait. lulz
With Predator’s Cunning, you play stabby stabby like a teef.

Only thing left on Sword is probably higher power damage and evade frames. That’s it.

Most are boring and uninspired traits. I can see lots of synergy, no doubt in that, but nothing is an eye catcher. All meh.

Then I look at Renegade traits, which are creative, and notice that they have a Shortbow piercing trait that will also give them 25% bleed damage. If traited, it means the Renegade SB AA is an AoE piercing bleed. Meanwhile, Ranger has to trait Light on your Feet, Hidden Barb and Sharpened Edges to keep SB relevant (3 traits), Renegade just has to trait one. Do you know Renegade has an AoE sharing ‘’Sharpening Stone’’ ? Now you do. Better AoE, better traits, better utilities.

Wing Buffet* and watch the Soulbeast video. It’s a single KB with 300 CC.

Holland.9351:

Those that stood out to me:
Owl, Smokescale, Black Bear and Boar.

Same for me !

Owl for Leap, Swiftness and Heal.
Smokescale for being a wannabe Rev.
Black Bear for Immunity.

Others on my mind :

Bristleback for Bleed.
Jacaranda for Ranged Power and 2x Heal.
Iboga for Ranged Condi.

I feel cats will get less play in BMode. At least the Dogs and Pigs have Knockdown, Wyvern for Knockback and the Drakes have Blast. The cats ? Nothing in particular.

Johnny.1634:

Fail to see how anyone is excited about this, you lose 30% of your damage with pet gone, reden many of your utilities/traits near useless, just so you can gain skills your pet can already use and +400 stats….lol no thanks ill pass.

30 % of your damage ? You’re exaggerating. Anyway, the main mechanic is that you can use your pet skills, which you can’t control when they are out normally. Use its skills, get out of BMode and leave it do what it has to do.

SBeast is clearly made to play in and out of BMode. Yes you can stay forever in BMode if you want and sometimes it will be easier to stay in BMode. Sometimes, it’s better to have your pet out.

You’re gaining options, not losing anything.

Substance E.4852:

Durzlla.6295:

contrary to popular belief, merging with your pet isn’t meant to be a flat out upgrade, there’s supposed to be give and take.

What give is there when it’s basically a dps loss on power builds and a direct increase on condi builds?

200 extra power isn’t mindblowing and all the fused forms of pet skills do incredibly low damage. Why would I ever combine with a tiger in pve for example? I would lose damage as well as the fury uptime.

Not all pets are going to be useful in BeastMode as we can see. New pets, such as Smokescale, which has unique abilities, are going to be the most useful. Ex : Smoke Cloud -> Blast -> Invis -> BMode -> Takedown -> Smoke Assault -> Out BMode -> Pet’s Smoke Assault.

Cufufalating.8479:

We can now get 18s of damage immunity. I can taste the tears already.

With all those immunes, Conditions will be the counter.

If you use Black Bear + another Stout pet, you can go for a loooooooooong time.

Get in BMode → Unflinching Fortitude (4) → Defy Pain (3) → Exit Bmode (10 secs cooldown) → SoS (6) → Stoneform (5) → BMode → Unflinching Fortitude (4).

If Unflinching Fortitude cooldown is not shared with other Stout pets, then it’s a total of 22 secs of attack immunity . ! If shared, 18. Take a Smokescale for the Evade instead.

MFW you can get 7 secs of damage immunity on Black Bear only (Defy Pain + Stout). Stoneform + SoS ? Oh boy.