Guild Wars 2

Just had a match where I was /laughed at by 3/4 of my team mates and then verbally abused because I was playing a thief.

I don’t even know what to say at this point. Not only is the balance in this game horrendous but with the introduction of leagues players care about winning more than ever so if you’re not playing a ‘meta’ class, this is what happens..

I had a thought while raiding yesterday. Why not make the buffs we get from dodging party wide? 10% flat damage/damage reduction for your whole party when you dodge would make for pretty good support, nor would it be hard to implement.

Pls anet

Will there be anything about the feature patch? :cc

I think the skill could benefit from some tweaks, yeah.
Maybe if the stun was removed, or the evade frame was shorter. The skill could be made to last for a shorter amount of time. At the moment the evade frame is actually quite long, making it very annoying to play against.

Just another thing, I feel that without pistolwhip, the s/p set would feel quite lacking.

IchigoHatake.5098:

I know your gear amon :P but seriously pistol dagger/ sword dagger is pretty op atm.

What I’m wondering is, how is it op now. This build is worse than it was before, due to the sword nerfs.

I’m not saying its not a strong build, which it is, but how is it op?

ShadowNinja.1238:

Amonatory.2453:

LMAO…. Thats not build, but good try big boy. I find it funny as hell that you try to give a build thats not mine to people haha

It’s urs u told me ingame and plus Princess Snuffle is better at s/d than you an d/p > s/d.

Was there a reason to make this thread? It seems to me like you have something against amon. Also, does it matter if snuffles can or can’t beat him? I’m getting the feeling you may have died to him a few too many times.

I’d like to see a melee condi weapon, I was thinking axe might fit that role. I’d also like to see a two handed acro based weapon. Maybe staff/greatsword or scythe or something.

But yes, I do feel that thieves are very limited when it comes to weapon choices.

The most stealth I have ever been able to stack is about 15seconds. Chaining stealth by using multiple skills/utilities is fine.

Only if warriors lose all adrenalin when they miss their burst.

I’ve been having trouble with the range indicator saying i’m within range, and then having steal go on the 4 second cooldown.

Just a heads up to those who say all you need to do to counter tanky condi builds is bring condi removal…
Remember when skullcrack/cc warriors were a problem? And all the warriors were saying things like ‘lol, just use a stunbreak/bring stability’. Thats you, right now.

Yeah, no. Take your badness elsewhere.

@onebloke
Your post doesn’t count because you implied stealth=invuln. You also implied that warriors are more susceptible to condi than thieves.

Anyway. So you want to nerf SR? Nerf it or remove it?
Are you all aware that thieves have very very minor access to defensive boons? We have no blocks and no protection, and without this trait very little sustain.

I don’t get all the people in this thread asking for compensation or whatever. Thats not how nerfs work. Your class is OP, this particular skill is also OP, so the devs nerf it to bring it in line/add some counter play to it, and you ask for compensation? For what? Balancing your class?

top lel m80

The only problem I have with clone death traits is that, from what I have seen, they are undodgable. Eg. when using whirwind/pistolwhip/blurred frenzy you will still get the condi’s applied to you.

I could be wrong though. I probably am.

teg.1340:

Cripple is a hard counter to (warrior) mobility skills.

I really hope you’re joking.
Dogged march + melandru + lemongrass = what’s a condi?

Speaking of torment and thus impale… Can we at least make impale apply the 5 stacks outright? Instead of this stupid lead up to the full damage thing. At least if it was a full 5 stacks straight up you could cleanse it effectively.

Didn’t read anything else in the thread but… Turrets need wheels. Make it a gm trait or something. It’d be pretty funny to watch.

Actually on second thought. kitten that. This game doesn’t need more AI clutter.

Swagg.9236:

Trouble is, ANet goes about giving [Pin Down] a nice little telegraph, but then turns around and gives [Burning Speed] evasion frames.

Two completely different things. Burning speed has a HUGE tell which allows you to evade/block the skill if necessary. Pin down on the other hand.. Has a very low cast time and no noticeable animation. The only way I can tell the difference is from the difference in the way the projectile looks.

PW is fine/good as is, performance wise at least. Though as you mentioned the evade frame can be weird and you can still get hit by some things, so I think that should be fixed.

xsquared.1926:

Maesk.8753:

xsquared.1926:

Blocking the backstab should just reveal the thief. Same goes for a ’’miss’’ if the thief is blinded.

problem solved

Minister ricefarmer please go.

1/10, best I can do.

You play S/P anyways :^)

Not anymore, s/d now. Its still a stupid idea. I guess I’d be okay with it as long as warriors burst skills used all adrenaline when they miss and went on full cooldown.

I think that would be fair :^)

ps. nerf phase retreat, its still a psuedo stunbreak.

xsquared.1926:

Blocking the backstab should just reveal the thief. Same goes for a ’’miss’’ if the thief is blinded.

problem solved

Minister ricefarmer please go.

1/10, best I can do.

Aza.2105:

The moment Anet introduces a predator for stealth is the moment the thief population will be culled.

Maybe because that would actually destroy the class. I’m not sure if you’re aware of this or not, but a large majority of thieves sustain/utility comes from stealth. By reducing the thieves ability to stealth, you’re also reducing their access to almost everything.

As for a ‘counter’, I personally think that’s a little unfair, no? Currently there are no other classes which have their defining class feature countered by a single skill (sic’em). Can I get a skill that destroys all clones/pets in an AOE around me?

Anet gets back from holidays jan 21st I think.. So no sooner than that.

Kagamiku.9731:

Dynnen.6405:

SpecterMAT.7306:

Please remove water field blasting healing from every professions.
They heal too much. Warriors cannot do it.
Why those other bullkitten professions can do it? Is it even legal do heal that much amount?
We can only heal 400 hp by that regen. They can heal lot more.
We don’t have access to such things. Remove water fields.
Also nerf engineers. thanks anet.

Healing signet by itself isn’t too bad. Combined with adrenal healing its outrageous. Also…warriors can’t blast finisher in water field?

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blast_finisher

Yea, warriors are definitely not lacking in the blast finisher department, lol

How can 392HPS to 472HPS go from “not too bad” to “outrageous.”

Warriors only have one blast finisher out of all their weapons. If one isn’t lacking, then what is?

I can count 3 blast finishers and I don’t even play warrior.

Incurafy.6329:

Now venoms are OP? What’s next, traps? LOL!

Well, shadow trap was nerfed….

Shtra Quo.1932:

That thief was running no signets (iirc) and had no might stacks. His sigils have been bloodlust and fire. Basilisk venom was active. That was on around 2.4k armor.

I’m still wondering what he was running.

Edit: He was fully buffed with guard leech and 25 stacks of bl.

full zerk, scholar runes, 30/30/0/0/10 (or something like that).

I think the better question is.. What were you running?

I’d probably nominate triggerless, since he’s person who’s been named in this thread that I have experience fighting against. He’s scary.

Lamuness.3570:

Sorry, I don’t have much WvW insight but in sPvP HJ or solo Q, should I feel bad that I can successfully hold and engage 3 members of a given team at a control point and not die for a good 2-3 minutes? It’s funny when I stealth and they start swatting around like hitting gnats. All the while my other teammates are capping other points (HOPEFULLY) so that when I eventually go down, they don’t get the stomp for another 15 secs while I port / blinding powder.

In WvW I can keep a good 3-4 people busy as well. I usually get overwhelmed, but a good distraction is a good thing, I feel. Am I playing this wrong?

wat.

If you’re engaging 3 people on a point for 2 to 3 minutes, the the people you’re fighting are really bad, and every time you stealth you’re letting them cap the point anyway.

I’d love to see any sort of 2h melee weapon on thieves, I feel like they would make great evade/block based sets (I love acro builds). Be it a scythe, greatsword or staff, I dont mind

I’d like to hear what anets vision for thieves is. I seem to remember a while back, a dev saying that they would like to give thieves more mobility and staying power, while making them less reliant on stealth. Though I might be mistaken on that.
So far we’ve seen nerf’s to both stealth and mobility, and not much in the way to buffs in staying power.

Just curious is all.

Burnfall.9573:

i do not troll. Im not one and never will be one..

Ok. Whatever you say. :^)

Got any proof? ’cause at the moment, this looks like a poorly disguised troll thread.

Ehh, s/p is still okay. It’s never really been super popular (at least after the quickness nerf).

The nerf to inf strike sucks, but it doesn’t make the set useless. I can still roam in wvw fine with it. I just have to be more careful with who and when I engage.

dDuff.3860:

For those of us who use S/P, I’d like to know what other builds are usable in soloQ/teamQ
And what other traits do you use in this very common 10/30/0/0/30?

P.S. With PW back I went straight 400 positions to #48 in soloQ, so I guess it can indicate how useful it is in solo :P

I don’t do much spvp, but I do wvw a lot.

In wvw I run 0/30/0/20/20.

I find that bountiful theft is really really useful, especially for stripping protection/stability of targets. The reduced cooldown on steal and extra vigor is nice too.

When compared to magic bullet, BV is really quite lackluster.
Maybe just increase the duration or make it instant cast. Or something.

Fortus.6175:

No, it is not ok to have this much damage out of stealth, period.

Was it really necessary to bump this thread? You already have a thread about the exactly the same thing on the front page.

At this point you’re starting to look desperate.

Luke.4562:

Guess what?

[img]https://dviw3bl0enbyw.cloudfront.net/uploads/forum_attachment/file/27538/gw402b.jpg[/img]

Try posting a relevant screenshot. Since mug crit, its obvious that this was from before it got nerfed. Hell, it could be pre Assassin’s signet nerf too.

I don’t get why you try to lie/twist the truth to further your argument.

+1, the change to PW is pretty nice. If only they would shave a bit of the cast time from the stun portion. Then I think it would be in a nice spot.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

^ lol

Have you read the release note?

I uhh… briefly skimmed over them…

I’ve only been up for an hour lol

Clockwork Bard.3105:

Is it at all significant? I’m assuming “by 35%” they mean 35% of its already negligible scaling. Which comes out as a nerf for me, because I’m having to give up 100 healing power from my Shadow Arts line to chase the thing into the grandmaster tier.

Yeah, thats what it looks like for me. Tooltip still says 69hp/init. So I guess its the scaling with healing power.

I wouldn’t mind it if they reworked it to give regen. Say, very little/none at full init, and a decent amount when your init. is empty.
Or would that be considered too passive?

They actually improved the scaling with healing power, of assassins reward.

Here I was hoping they would improve the base healing, but I guess its just time to start stacking dat healing power.

Cleric thief new meta?

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Hidden Killer trait received a buff to now deal 100% critical hit chance.
Executioner trait receive a buff to deal 20% more damage and increased the threshold to 50%.

Wow!

Infusion of Shadows also received a buff that returns 2 Initiatives.

Why were these even included in the notes? So other classes think we got huge buffs?

As for the init. regen, I can tell its been buffed while spamming p/w in lions arch. We’ll have to see what its like in combat though.

To be honest I kind of doubt you actually play thief.

I feel the same, not sure if I’ll reroll or maybe just quite outright.
/shrug

Dragonax.6487:

Maesk.8753:

Dragonax.6487:

Maesk.8753:

So, heres the thing. Neither d/d or p/d has blind on their weapon skills. The only way for either of those sets to blind someone is by traits or utilities, which aren’t weapon exclusive. I suggest you do a little research before calling a class OP.

Also, I have 1v1’d condi thieves and won. Does that make me a god?

There is a counter to stealth, it’s called learning to play against it. For an x/D thief to stealth, they need to get within 130 range of you, and if they’re that close to you, then they’re probably doing for a cloak and dagger. Block it, evade it, blind it, CC it. You said you’re a warrior main, why not break out some of that cc you guys have? Or blocks?

Torment is a strong condition, yes, but not as strong as burning, which a lot of other classes have access to, but thieves don’t.

The poison argument is valid, but since you play a warrior, poison is one of the few (if not the only) ways to counter healsig. So.. Yeah.

Funny that u tell me to do research when clearly forget a few things yourself:

-Condition thief always run condi duration food, in addition to the Runes, stat allocation etc , they normally always have 50-70 % longer blind duration
-They have access to Cloaked in Shadow, which give 6-7 sec more blind on stealth, as well as Last Refuge minor trait. DD thief can also run this but it’s not common as far as I know.

So pls research the build more before you talk

About the Dagger 5, try playing Warrior sometimes and see how easy it is to avoid it, especially if the thief do it while in stealth. Also, it has a rather short 6 sec cool down

I killed PD thief sometimes too, but it’s mostly because either the players behind it were pretty poor and made some nooby mistakes or if I run full counter build with Melandru Rune, multiple condition removers and -40% condition duration food. Still, in both case it normally take pretty long and frustrating fights to kill them and I still lose more than win. If it was any other builds I can safely say that I would get most of them in less than 10 sec.

Fair enough call on the duration of the blinds, but they still have the same amount of access to blinds as a d/d thief.

I’ve seen plenty of thieves who rune cloaked in shadow and last refuge as a burst spec. Since both of those traits are in shadow arts and both builds use that line I dont see why you couldn’t run it.

I’ve played warrior, and it was stupidly easy to kill thieves. The whole class was actually pretty easy. Very very forgiving too. Also, how exactly do thieves use cloak and dagger from stealth? Unless you mean chaining it off of you, in which case maybe you should move around more.

But I mean, sure. Lets nerf another viable thief build into the ground, so you can kill thieves with ease.

:^)

I bet you only say thief is weak because you main thief. Surely DD thief no longer as powerful as before but a skilled DD can still be a monstrosity (While the noobs can no longer have free win with it, which is a good thing )

But PD condi thief is not only viable, it’s rather stupidly easy ( probably even more than Condi Necro, those are easy to play but can also be countered effectively )

Go to the sPVP forum, theres a thread right now called “Class Tier List- Post December 10th Patch”. Have a look at where people place thief.

And like I said earlier, condi thief has been pretty much the same for a while, why are you only just complaining about it now?

As for it being easy and effective, are there currently a lot of other build the same? Why is it thief that needs a nerf?

Anyway, I think I’m done arguing with a warrior (of all people) who thinks thieves are op. Im out.

Dragonax.6487:

Maesk.8753:

So, heres the thing. Neither d/d or p/d has blind on their weapon skills. The only way for either of those sets to blind someone is by traits or utilities, which aren’t weapon exclusive. I suggest you do a little research before calling a class OP.

Also, I have 1v1’d condi thieves and won. Does that make me a god?

There is a counter to stealth, it’s called learning to play against it. For an x/D thief to stealth, they need to get within 130 range of you, and if they’re that close to you, then they’re probably doing for a cloak and dagger. Block it, evade it, blind it, CC it. You said you’re a warrior main, why not break out some of that cc you guys have? Or blocks?

Torment is a strong condition, yes, but not as strong as burning, which a lot of other classes have access to, but thieves don’t.

The poison argument is valid, but since you play a warrior, poison is one of the few (if not the only) ways to counter healsig. So.. Yeah.

Funny that u tell me to do research when clearly forget a few things yourself:

-Condition thief always run condi duration food, in addition to the Runes, stat allocation etc , they normally always have 50-70 % longer blind duration
-They have access to Cloaked in Shadow, which give 6-7 sec more blind on stealth, as well as Last Refuge minor trait. DD thief can also run this but it’s not common as far as I know.

So pls research the build more before you talk

About the Dagger 5, try playing Warrior sometimes and see how easy it is to avoid it, especially if the thief do it while in stealth. Also, it has a rather short 6 sec cool down

I killed PD thief sometimes too, but it’s mostly because either the players behind it were pretty poor and made some nooby mistakes or if I run full counter build with Melandru Rune, multiple condition removers and -40% condition duration food. Still, in both case it normally take pretty long and frustrating fights to kill them and I still lose more than win. If it was any other builds I can safely say that I would get most of them in less than 10 sec.

Fair enough call on the duration of the blinds, but they still have the same amount of access to blinds as a d/d thief.

I’ve seen plenty of thieves who rune cloaked in shadow and last refuge as a burst spec. Since both of those traits are in shadow arts and both builds use that line I dont see why you couldn’t run it.

I’ve played warrior, and it was stupidly easy to kill thieves. The whole class was actually pretty easy. Very very forgiving too. Also, how exactly do thieves use cloak and dagger from stealth? Unless you mean chaining it off of you, in which case maybe you should move around more.

But I mean, sure. Lets nerf another viable thief build into the ground, so you can kill thieves with ease.

:^)

Dragonax.6487:

Maesk.8753:

Dragonax.6487:

As a warrior main, I agree that D/D thief no longer need nerf, in fact they could use a bit of buff. The P/D condition thief on the other hand, need serious nerfs: Almost perma stealth, almost perma blind, 3 k armor, ranged, ignore opponent armor, that’s just too much. I test it in PvP and have been murdering people without even trying.

Pro tip, condi thieves have been around forever.

As for your argument…
>Almost perma stealth
Same amount of stealth as d/d
>Almost perma Blind
A d/d thief can do this too
>ranged
Other classes can use ranged weapons, why is it op when a thief does it?
>Ignores armor
Again, this isn’t just a thief thing, all condi ignores armor.
>3k armor
Thank Anet for the introduction of dire gear, before it every condi thief ran carrion.

So anyway, the reason why the number of condi thieves is on the rise is because post patch, mainhand sword and off hand pistol will be subpar. So we’re left with d/d and p/d.
Also, p/d set got 2 buffs a little while ago, making them a bit more effective.

I have to disagree with your opinion about the blind and the ranged:

-P/D thief has more blind than DD, that’s obvious

-Do you realize that having an effective ranged build for a class that has high mobility and can stay invisible for a very long time is no different from giving them God mode ?

Since there is no real counter to stealth, they can easily keep the distance.

And if u manage to get close during their short period without stealth, they can blind you or just use their mobility to get away before keeping up their barely different from cheating routine.

Even if u somehow manage to catch and deal damage to them you will realize that they can take quite a few hit.

What even worse is that they have access to some sick conditions like torment (punish you heavily for trying to chase them ), poison (sry no healing allowed here ).

So, heres the thing. Neither d/d or p/d has blind on their weapon skills. The only way for either of those sets to blind someone is by traits or utilities, which aren’t weapon exclusive. I suggest you do a little research before calling a class OP.

Also, I have 1v1’d condi thieves and won. Does that make me a god?

There is a counter to stealth, it’s called learning to play against it. For an x/D thief to stealth, they need to get within 130 range of you, and if they’re that close to you, then they’re probably doing for a cloak and dagger. Block it, evade it, blind it, CC it. You said you’re a warrior main, why not break out some of that cc you guys have? Or blocks?

Torment is a strong condition, yes, but not as strong as burning, which a lot of other classes have access to, but thieves don’t.

The poison argument is valid, but since you play a warrior, poison is one of the few (if not the only) ways to counter healsig. So.. Yeah.

Dragonax.6487:

As a warrior main, I agree that D/D thief no longer need nerf, in fact they could use a bit of buff. The P/D condition thief on the other hand, need serious nerfs: Almost perma stealth, almost perma blind, 3 k armor, ranged, ignore opponent armor, that’s just too much. I test it in PvP and have been murdering people without even trying.

Pro tip, condi thieves have been around forever.

As for your argument…
>Almost perma stealth
Same amount of stealth as d/d
>Almost perma Blind
A d/d thief can do this too
>ranged
Other classes can use ranged weapons, why is it op when a thief does it?
>Ignores armor
Again, this isn’t just a thief thing, all condi ignores armor.
>3k armor
Thank Anet for the introduction of dire gear, before it every condi thief ran carrion.

So anyway, the reason why the number of condi thieves is on the rise is because post patch, mainhand sword and off hand pistol will be subpar. So we’re left with d/d and p/d.
Also, p/d set got 2 buffs a little while ago, making them a bit more effective.

Dee Jay.2460:

I honestly don’t think the upcoming patch is going to be a nerf for Thieves.

It may change things up a little but not to the point of making currently popular builds completely unviable. I know this is against the popular opinion here but I don’t think people have quite grasped what the 1 Initiative/second actually means in real game-play (as opposed to crunching numbers on a spreadsheet).

I think you’re forgetting the vigor nerfs (quite large), the change to inf. strike (huge) and the change to infusion of shadow (good for some bad for some).