Guild Wars 2

u alrdy kno #ripforbes

Its official BOYZ… Backpack Co is now an official partner with Forbes.

Forbes 15 (Highest Paid North American Players)
1. Phantaram – 6040$
2. Wakkey- 5600$
3. Chaith- 5540$
4. Toker- 5540$
5. Oeggs- 5280$
6. Noscoc- 1020$
7. Caed- 840$
8. Backpack- 520$
9. Zombify- 520$
10. Twerp- 500$
11. Vyndetta- 500$
12. Davinci- 500$
13. Tarcis- 340$
14. Hman- 320$
15. Skovos-160$

Most Winning-est Players (Tournaments with rewards)
1. Backpack- 71
2. Noscoc- 70
3. Caed- 53
4. Tany- 32
5. Wakkey- 29

Most Losing-est Players (Tournaments with rewards)
1. Ostrich Eggs
2. Almighty Crysis
3. Bird of Fire
4. Caed
5. Davinci

Hardest to play with (On a team)
1. Hibify
2. Ostrich Eggs
3. Davinci
4. Bird of Thunder
5. Bird of Fire

Ugliest Cuts of All Time
1. Ostrich Eggs (TDM)
2. Ostrich Eggs (The Abjured)
3. Ostrich Eggs (IER)
4. Caed (The Abjured)
5. Gibbly (GF)

Best Players of All Time (NA)
Guardian- Davinci
Elementalist- Bunch of eles in my channel, they will get salty af if i pick one
Warrior- Tarcis
Necro- Noscoc
Engineer- Backpack
Mesmer- Supcutie
Thief- Magic Toker
Ranger- Vyndetta

Forbes 4 (Most influential GW2)
1. Helseth
2. Ostrich Eggs
3. Phantaram
4. Supcutie

Elitist.8701:

TCG is doing incredible with the new comp. Its sad that CM actually ended up losing a game when they ran a direct counter to TCG’s comp. I actually think TCG could’ve won if they didn’t lose the midpoint in that last game. I feel like they overextend too much unnecessarily and then don’t make fast enough recoveries. Overall though TCG is still the best team in the game(seriously, look closely at the teamwork…just wow). Nothing on NA even compares in terms of pure skill, the Abjured won’t stand a chance in next WTS, not even with the cheesiest comp in the game.

-Teef Teef Teef Teef

LOL the abjured beat them with subs, and a not optimized comp……. The Abjured is worlds ahead of any EU team… TCG cant even beat CM, u expect them to beat Abjured>? lol gl hf

it will be ugly at the next WTS, i promise

Update for my build with slick shoes.

esports… #10 legendarys

William C.6195:

A 3/4s cast time for Overcharged Shot would be a bit steep. Make it 1 1/2 or something. Long enough to allow enemies to dodge/counter, but not so long that it’s incredibly risky for the engineer to use. The self-inflicted knock back should stay: Engineer’s have enough CC already.

Adding torment to Box of Nails would make this a seriously OP skill. It’s a huge AoE cripple and bleed already, torment would just be ridiculous.

As for Slick Shoes, I don’t think you need to change the cooldown, just how it works. As it is, you get knocked down again and again if the engineer runs around you. Increase the interval on the knockdown and it’ll be okay – it’ll still punish those that are stupid enough to stand in it, or try to cross it, but won’t will knockdown then allow the person to move.

Other than that, some good suggestions.

LOL
A. 1.5s is a ridiculously long time, super risky, not worth reward….. if you cant dodge a 3/4s you have a bigger problem than engineers….. honestly though, as an engineer, removing the self CC will make it too good….. even if you can “dodge” it, i have enough pressure to force two of ur dodges, then use it, OR cancel cast it and force a dodge….. and without the self CC< i can land chill and shrapnel grenades, throwwrench and immob before you can move again..

Anastasis.7258:

General
Runes
1. Nightmare Rune- add animation, cast time, and buff icon for the passive fear. Reduce the fear duration.
2. Hoebrak Rune- Reduce Might Duration.
3. Tone down Celestial Amulet slightly.

Elementalist
1. Re-balance the Healing Power scale with Water Attunement Heals.
2. Remove 1 Blast Finisher from D/D weapon set.
3. Fix Lighting Whip bug abusing.
4. Reduce the accessibility for Vigor and Regeneration.
5. Tone Down the burning duration from Dragon Breath (or increase the skill cool-down)
6. Tone Down the Ring of Fire Duration.

Engineer
1. Add cast time and animation to Over-Charged Shot. Reduce the Knock-back range and duration. Reduce punishment for Engineer itself.
2. Increase Gear Shield Cool-down.
3. Re-balance the Skill base damage on Pry Bar, Throw Wrench.
4. Decrease Cripple duration from Box of Nails.
5. Magnet visible while in Stealth effect.
6. Add a buff icon when Incendiary Powder is ready.

Necromancer
1. Add obvious animation to Dark Path.
2.Add Different animation to Staff Mark skills.

Mesmer
1. Fix Spatial Surge bug abusing.

Warrior
1. Fix Warhorn Skills after-cast canceling. (Although the skill itself shouldn’t have any after-cast, might be a bug or intended)

Ranger, Thief, Guardian
In a good spot.

Yea celestial shout warrior is balanced….. KAPPAAAAAa

Okay children, lets break this down.

Bird of Fire is just sitting here, anyone who agrees with him > BRILLIANT +1, anyone who disagrees = Troll

For starters don’t make a “constructive” post and then do this ^^^^.

So, what are the “cures” to celestial. I think most would agree it is NOT JUST THE AMULET, sigils and runes are what make it viable.

That being said, lets look at the “meta”
Engi- Cele (Meta)
Ele- Cele (Meta)
Warrior- Cele (Meta)

Despite these three builds…. almost every other class has representation in top tier
Thief- Both S/d and D/p played at top tier
Necro- Condi played at top tier (no good power necros)
Guardian- Both TCG and CM use a DPS guardian now (correct me if im wrong on this)

Mesmer-recently pushed out of meta, shatter still very viable, it is able to destroy both cele eles and engis

Ranger- simply lacking, needs buffs

Your argument that celestial eles and engis are thrashing you in 1v1s is SOO invalid… your using a zerker necro that is basically made for group fights… you use wells and Lich…. which contribute far more in a team fight than elementalists and engineers….

And yes, i’m going to direct a lot of this at your team because that is your main basis of CELESTIAL OP> EVERYTHING ELSE…
You guys don’t know how to rotate. If you rotated the right people at the right time to the right place, you guys might actually have a chance of not getting 500-0ed by better players. Your mechanical skill is also not quite there, rather unfortunate, but your builds require very little brain activity and there shouldn’t be much of an issue with pressing one button on your keyboard.

The bottom line is this: No build in this game is hard, at top tier just about anything can become viable when your great at it..
I will admit, celestial builds tend to have a low skill floor, but they also have a high skill cap. This game, since it wants to be esports, needs to be balanced from the top down. Currently at the top the only classes struggling are ranger and a little bit of mesmer/guard. I guarantee you, if you guys didn’t 4v5 (res warrior? srsly?) and actually knew how to rotate, you would stand a chance vs actual top teams. Your rage vs celestial amulet is simply because you are at the bottom of the skill floor in your respective classes. This makes Celestial seem overpowered to you. Well, have a good day,
Love, Backpack

http://i.imgur.com/FI2bC1V.jpg

We had 2necros and 2engis.. idk if thats why… but pls faster (it ended up popping at about ~10.5mins

SobeSoul.6910:

This leaderboard is silly. It’s a measurement of who can spam the most games.

However, the leaderboard shouldn’t be about rewarding top players stacking themselves into one team to farm unorganized pugs or lesser teams.

If you’re a top player why are you dodging other top players by teaming with them?

Lol, no one is “dodging” anyone.. There are about 10 players that are top tier in NA, these 10 players make up the two best competitive teams in North America… These two teams beat every other team in the game.. These teams are not scared of fighting each other, in fact they welcome it. However it requires all 10 players to be on to play each other… Which unfortunately is quite rare.

So “super pugs” form where 3 players from team A and 2 players from team B join up since the rest of their team is on//

Yea here is evidence
http://imgur.com/PzhUb5Z

most games for me are like Green Bay(me) vs Highschool freshman B team (enemy)…

nope, many have been done before.
I think it is considered a gentlemens agreement IE anet isnt responsible

much worse..like i keep fighting 5 engis that r best engis game… and we all solo q

Unlike chaith who is much more modest. I will out right say that I play at a much higher level than you ever have. Engineer is not OP and similar to a lot of classes in this game it has a very high skill cap. You could sit here for hours complaining about all the people who play better than you, but at the end of the day it comes down to one simple thing. Player. Skill.
Love Backpack
Tournament of Legends 2 winner
22 win streak in MP 2v2
Over 20 wins in MP conquest cup
Tournament of Glory 2nd place (left first place team due to age restriction in following event)
ESL Go4 cup 1 First place
Team q Leaderboard Highest 1st, current 6th

STARTING NOW (7:11 CST) WHISPER ME INGAME TO PLAY (Backpack God)

The faster we get a time the better. Since this event falls on a Wednesday, it would be nice to know as soon as possible whether I need to contact my employer to get the day off. (Or if it is after I get off work, I can stop worrying about it)

Backpack. The Absurd

Edit: work-school
Contact employer = convince my parents to let me skip

daydream.2938:

to bad all I remember how to play is engy

Kappa

POSTPONED !!!!! SORRY
I need to sub in for Abjureds scrim practice… Them winning china is top priority

Roster Update:
Current roster 8/10
Brigg.6189
Nabbo.2845
Anhomedog.7968
Zethyrius.8692
Chopps.5047
Siroso.2769
Swish.2463
Raiole.4267

Yea the whole point of this is for players who want to improve but don’t have a team. We will be doing 5v5s in custom arenas and teams will be made randomly. If we have less than ten people, il have some top players come in as subs, if more than ten people show up, we can rotate people in so everyone gets a chance to play some games at a higher level than them normally get to.

reminder: this will start this SATURDAY AT 8PM CST
I will whisper everyone that has asked to sign up (updated list in original post)

Update
Current roster 5/10
Brigg.6189
Nabbo.2845
Anhomedog.7968
Zethyrius.8692
Chopps.5047

Current roster 3 /10
Brigg.6189
Nabbo.2845
Anhomedog.7968

I agree Acandis, this sounds like a great opportunity for you

I am Backpack. I play in the competitive scene on North America and have been extremely successful in the Tournaments I have played in. This last weekend I got to see a lot of new teams compete and do well. However when watching them I saw a LOT of mistakes in rotations and decision making. While mechanical skill is hard to learn and just takes practice, Rotations can be learned quite easily (obviously practice is also needed).
So without further blabber, I would like to introduce a “learning” arena. Similar to inhouse 5v5s, this custom arena will be hosting 5v5s between players. The players will use voice coms and will try to build a somewhat reasonable comp. I will try to get a variety of top tier players to watch the games as well as sit in the teamspeaks that are being used. They will give a variety of tips, tricks, and corrections to the players after each game.
You do not need a team, but if you would like your entire team to play, we can arrange that as well.
I hope to do this every weekend on Saturday evening.

First Date: November 8th —- 8pm CST

If you would like to signup please respond below here or message me in game (Mike.4830).

All the comments and critiques will be positive, trash talk and negative comments will not be tolerated.

Thanks! Backpack

THE DREAM: Players are able to transfer knowledge in order to create a fun learning environment. At some point the goal would be, players that participate could potentially make teams together, or teams looking for a 5th, could scout out these games to find one.

Edit: if not enough sign up, we will practice 2v2s and 3v3s

Current roster 8/10
Brigg.6189
Nabbo.2845
Anhomedog.7968
Zethyrius.8692
Chopps.5047
Siroso.2769
Swish.2463
Raiole.4267

Malediktus.9250:

Never going to happen. Hell is more likely to freeze.

More likely to exist* …
But yea if we had that much atm it would be a waste unless there were way more competitive players..

Great Games! Well played Abjured!

I LAUGHED SO HARD LLLOOLLL

nah its good counterplay #plskeep

The tool tips are correct, the actually ability does not apply extra duration tho.. I tested this and submitted a bug report about 4months ago… just checked again today….
please fix
All burning abilities tool tips say correct numbers but apply the same amt without the trait…

ur welcome godtier -Backpack

The tool tips are correct, the actually ability does not apply extra duration tho.. I tested this and submitted a bug report about 4months ago… just checked again today….
please fix

All burning abilities tool tips say correct numbers but apply the same amt with out the trait…

any questions about rotations ask here!!!

Guildwars 2 is officially Esports
with a potential yearly income of 25,000$ (WTS x3 + Monthlys)

The overall median personal income for all individuals over the age of 18 was $24,062 in the year 2005. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_income_in_the_United_States

In Arkansas the average income is 23,864$ (2001)…. https://bber.unm.edu/econ/us-pci.htm

However we are not quite there.

The median wage in the US per person is $26,695

We need only 1.7k worth of tournaments to surpass this.

Welcome to the show boiz.

1. Engineer
2. I wanna be the best
3. Outplayed By Children, Cognitive Gaming
4. Every day 12AM EST-12AM EST
5. 16 11/12th
6.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LqeC3BPYTmE

I dont know what your talking about, I only pvp and im filthy rich….
I get like 4000 gems a week from weekly tournys
Ive gotten gifts of fortune, legendaries, black lion tickets and a bunch of other stuff from larger scale tournaments

On the whole just over the summer I made about 10000g in gems/rewards

PvP has a greater disparity of wealth that PvE

Top tier Pvpers are all extremely rich, the majority of my friends are sitting on 10s of thousands of gems and gold…. I can make more gold from PvP that PvErs at the highest level

XSamX.7182:

S: Elementalist
(Nothing influences the game as this really powerful class. 1 v 1 god, no counter, swiftness for the complete group at start, passive heal like a bozz, combofields + blast finisher, AoE Teamfight Damage + Heals, Condi removal and a lot of boons[2 stabilitys aswell], one of the best mobility, even mobility for your team, nothing more to say)

A: Warrior
(Still really powerful. A Hambow has a rezzbanner, to get teammates up really well. Stability, COMPLETE God mode. AoE Stuns, AoE Burning, long immo, still really powerful in 1 v 1 [except vs ele], combo field and finsisher, passive heal like a bozz)

Thief
(Highest Mobility with elementalist, huge spike damage, invis, shadow refuge in teamfights. 1 v 1 strong, extremely powerful in combination with mesmer, combo fiel + finisher, Stuns and good AoE, can remove stability easily [really annoying])

B: Guardian
(really good AoE Support, teamfight strong, you can hold 1 v 1 forever or really really long, blocks, boons for the team, a little AoE Damage, the only stability for the group, mobility isn’t that great)

Mesmer (A Tier if you combine him with Thief, teamfight strong, 1 v 1 is risky and not really good but sometimes have a chance. Huge Spike Damage, Stealth, Moa, Mobility is good, really good range)

Engineer
(One of the best elites in the game, AoE Burning and other good conds, has good survive, with 2 Blocks + immunity, good range on grenades, combo fields + finisher, stealth, good 1 v 1)

C: Ranger
(Has some good moments, teamfight strong if you build him like that but then he is really bad in 1 v 1, 1 v 1 ok but then he is bad in teamfights. AoE Rezz that can trigger multiple times, can bunker, mobility is ok, range is ok]

Nekro
(Has really good moments aswell, bunkerkiller, 1 v 1 is ok, can bunker a bit with elite, AoE Conds, can remove stability but not as good as a thief, mobility isn’t that good, teamfights are really good [in combination with Engi really destroyable], ok range)

I’m basing this off the best players ive seen on each class….
Necro is not an ok 1v1, its the best 1v1 in the game
Engi is 2nd best 1v1er in the game

Also engi thrashes ele 1v1, and necro goes about 50-50 with it (best vs best)
I understand on EU, there are no good engis and necros, but i assure you they are 2 of the 3 best classes in the game

Engi Necro Ele – T1
Warrior Thief – T2
Ranger Mesmer Guardian – T3

Hi since im leaving cognitive gaming, id like to sign them up for lessons

azerte.4365:

Mike.4830:

I’d love to personally organize and shout cast such an event…. However I feel it should be two best of threes one on NA one on EU … To eliminate excuses…

I will contact both of these teams and try and set something up…

Don’t do it Backpack, leave the hype train for WTS! :p (If both teams are in it)

Noscoc isnt playing in WTS, and no one can play necro at his lvl on NA, so the Abjured at WTS wont be the most optimal roster, if it was, both Nos and I would be on it

I’d love to personally organize and shout cast such an event…. However I feel it should be two best of threes one on NA one on EU … To eliminate excuses…

I will contact both of these teams and try and set something up…

Abjured runs a comp that would decimate TCG
By having a necro, engi, and a thief in the same fight, you have three high priority classes. So by focusing one, you leave two to free cast, and 2/3 of (engi necro thief) can kill someone just as fast as thief mesmer. Necro and Engi can do stuff that mesmers and thiefs cant do, like 1v1 everything (including mesmer/thief) as well as res people without worried about being scratched……

As far as the metas are concerned, for awhile I thought that TCGs comp was the best, but in reality when you drop the bunker and add a cele ele you achieve alot

Bunker guards cannot 2v2 effectively, add a cele ele to any fight and you have a successful 2v2

Bunker guards cant 1v1, cele eles can very well

While bunker guards can teamfight well, cele ele has cross heals, AoE protection and enough pressure to win large scale fights (pressure vs counterpressure)(best defense is a good offense)

Cele ele has mobility to rotate to fights, bunker guard cannot

When you break down TCG and Abjured on as class level
Thief Thief – D/p > S/d
Necro Mesmer – High condi burst vs High Physical Burst
Engi Ranger/Warrior – High condi
Ele Ele – null
Ele Guardian -everything above

When abjured pushes 3 points > Engi Necro far. Ele Mid. Ele with thief escort Home.
TCG can do a few things…

Match numbers(they will lose all their fights)….

3v2 the crossers (caed will rotate, making it engi necro thief 3v3 and Abjured wins that) Abjured gets home free and wakkey rotates to Phanta who is 2v1 (but will survive and be supported by wakkey)—-Abjured has 2 cap, mid is nuet, they can +1 =3cap

4v2 the crossers they will win their home, caed will +1 mid, abjured has 2 cap with 2 eles sitting on mid, long enough for their respawns to come and push somewhere, abjured has 2 cap, TCG has 1

Ignore home, Abjured will freecap far, Engi will rotate to mid where it will be 2v2 or 2v3…. if 2v2 Abjured will win with Engi ele, if 3v2 Abjured loses mid. Home will be 2v2 thief ele vs 2. Thief ele will win Abjured has 2 cap

Any 2v2 that Tage is in, TCG will lose, also Tage will die very fast to Oeggs/Nos in a 1v1 (idc how good he is, nos and oeggs will kill him very fast)

The reason I have abjured winning all there even fights is because they are mechanically the best team in the game.
Any 2v2 with Noscoc, Abjured will win….
Phanta, Noscoc, and Wakkey win all their 1v1s unless they are fighting Backpacks Cele engi
Oeggs will be able to win all his 1v1s vs TCG (except Rom on Ranger)

Noscoc-undisputed best necro
Phanta/Wakkey- best eles NA
Caed- Best D/p thief (dp farms S/d)
Ostrich- Decent condi engi

IF the mesmer is in a fight with oeggs, caed, or noscoc, he will die

Abjured > TCG…

Solid player. 10/10

Drafigo.4690:

Drafigo.4690:

Anyone know this team that is Ele, Ele, Engi, Engi War?

I would like to maybe talk to that person or persons. I would like to see some game play footage if possible and dig into specs a bit. I have friends who play these classes and we can’t seem to pull it together. Info and help would be great! Thanks

Anyone??

Cognitive Gaming
Backpack God, Hibify, Skovos, Thadeus, Java
There is no gameplay of them

This thread has gone too far…
I play celestial engi at the highest tier of pvp in this game, before celestial I played condi. Engineer has always been in the meta but with the introduction of celestial amulet it became more than just meta. Condi engineer is very similar to condi necro in the sense that we sacrifice a defensive mechanism to obtain very high damage statistics….
With celestial amulet/strength runes/the new sigils and might stacking in general… alot of builds and classes that would otherwise be tanky become just as lethal as some zerker classes… while they currently are a little overpowered, all these tanky high damage classes have one thing in common (except ele #tobroketocare) low mobility… engis, necros, warriors all have poor mobility compared to the zerker classes (thief, mesmer) as i pointed out earlier this trade off is quite simple….. whether or not the mobility is equal to the survivability is what needs to be looked at…..

Ele-High mobility, High Personal Sustain, High Team Sustain, High Condi(Burn), Medium Physical damage
Engi-Medium Mobility, Medium Personal Sustain, Medium Team Sustain, High Condi, Extremely High Physical damage
Warrior-Low Mobility, High Personal Sustain, Low Team Sustain (Def), Medium Condi, High Physical Damage

Thief-Extremely High Mobility, High Personal Sustain (if you have a reaction time and basic awareness), Low team Sustain (refuge), Low Condi, High Physical

gotta go to class will finish later

Thief is at a disadvantage in a 1v1, because in a few seconds he can be across the map +1ing then back to decap the second you leave…. They have relatively similar damage, sacrificing sustain for mobility

As far as turrets.. yea it should get nerfed into the ground, but lets be real thats only a solo q problem, so who cares..

Saying that any build in this game is easy/hard is stupid… every single build in this game is easy to play….. just because your pressing more or less buttons doesnt mean its hard….. Cele ele, Hambo, Terrormancer, Cele engi, all the builds that make up the meta are generally easy to play with medium to low skill floors and very high skill caps(which is what makes them viable in high level play) there is a reason that turret engi isnt in tournaments… teh skill cap is so low…..

you all complain about a passive burn on a 10s Cd thats “undodgeable”
well—-
Steal- removes two boons, dazes 21s
DS fear-instant, 15s, 3k damage CC
Ele 2 in fire- u can dodge but you still get hit by the beginning or the end of the channel =5s burn every time , tbh eles have 10x more burn than cele engis, and while vs condi engi it might be similar, cele ele has way more sustain than condi engis, and can deal with condis (engis cant)

lololol aaron stongshot made a list LEGO BOYZ

lol the best team arena players are better than any solo q player… mechanically….rotations….basic decision making…..game knowledge……

Kitt.2567:

Mike.4830:

Kitt.2567:

Mike.4830:

I main engineer. I have solo qued probably 500+ games. Ive played engi is less than 50.
When I solo Q, I dont care, because it doesnt matter
Heres my proposal, pick your 5 best solo quers, get them to 5v5 me and 4 people from this list, then we can see how good u all are

oh if you want to make them fight by teamming up, you shouldnt do that in that team pvp way, rather, mix 5 from your list who are randomly picked up and top5 soloq people, just pick randomly from all those 10 people and put each to each team randomly, then run game without voice mic, and including skyhammer map also, definitely.

God your stupid, im done arguing ….lol theres a reason u dont win legendaries gems and $$ for solo q

god jesus

that is not our fault. it is ANET who did not put that much reward for soloQ people. it is Anet’s fault not our fault do not blame us about that. and those people whom you listed above all have gotten that legendary idiot? omg let me finish arguing

LOLOLOLOLOLOL, Solo Q is random, GG, No RE, Now go back to getting hit by skyhammer!

cymerdown.4103:

Lol, too many things wrong with this list, never mind the rating but the way you talk about strengths and weaknesses is inaccurate. If we use stats, you could think of it as there being DEX INT WIS and CHR. Dexterity = mechanics, INT = decision making and awareness, WIS = game knowledge and the application of it, CHR = team communication and leadership. Making clutch plays for example is just a combination of mechanics and decision making, with sometimes game knowledge or team communication coming in to play. Based on your stats, I would say your analysis of the player strengths are inaccurate for a lot of those players. Ordering is of course extremely subjective and prone to personal bias, so no point in arguing it other than saying I disagree on many fronts.

In other news Kensuda has dropped to R20+ and Ozie has replaced him.

Kitt.2567:

Mike.4830:

I main engineer. I have solo qued probably 500+ games. Ive played engi is less than 50.
When I solo Q, I dont care, because it doesnt matter
Heres my proposal, pick your 5 best solo quers, get them to 5v5 me and 4 people from this list, then we can see how good u all are

oh if you want to make them fight by teamming up, you shouldnt do that in that team pvp way, rather, mix 5 from your list who are randomly picked up and top5 soloq people, just pick randomly from all those 10 people and put each to each team randomly, then run game without voice mic, and including skyhammer map also, definitely.

God your stupid, im done arguing ….lol theres a reason u dont win legendaries gems and $$ for solo q

I main engineer. I have solo qued probably 500+ games. Ive played engi is less than 50.
When I solo Q, I dont care, because it doesnt matter
Heres my proposal, pick your 5 best solo quers, get them to 5v5 me and 4 people from this list, then we can see how good u all are