Guild Wars 2

I have to second this. The fractal is amazing. Especially the raid-like design. Less trashmobs, more boss action.

This whole drama reminds me of one of my favourite quotes:

“If you want something, you will find a way. If you don’t, you will find an excuse.”

I like it much more this way. DPS on auto, utillity on 2-5. Everything else just ends in mindless rotations.

For raids, if this is about raids, your tank should be able to move when he must and to stand when he doesn’t. If you have to dodge around to avoid damage, the boss will follow you every step and your raid party will go nuts. That’s why Chrono is so popular: He blocks.

I did tank Vale Guardian on a thief. The trick is to take a dps build, use as little toughness as possible to hold aggro and to equip Invigoratin Precision. You dodge blues with Staff 5 or dodge against a wall and facetank everything else.

Everything can tank Gorseval, except maybe the dps tempest. No tank for Sabetha or Wing 2. Everything can tank KC. For Xera, beeing able to migate damage without moving is even more important. So no dodging, and no idea if IP’s self heal works good enough against the confusion.

Rising Dusk.2408:

Molch.2078:

If you don’t see the difference between paying 400g once and 10g per use, I really cannot help you people…

You’ll have to show me where I can convert 400 gold to 1000 magnetite shards at will. That’s a really neat trick!

Oh so you’re not even trying to argue now? Thats sad

Rising Dusk.2408:

Molch.2078:

But on 5 minutes cooldown, the item would be so broken strong, I would buy one for my mesmer…

You already can and have been able to for years.

If you don’t see the difference between paying 400g once and 10g per use, I really cannot help you people…

It’s a vanity item. It’s nice to have and you can do some cool stuff with it, but it won’t give you a big advantage. It’s not supposed to be usefull. I see a lot of comparisons to the infusions, but no one complains that those don’t give better stats for their price.

But on 5 minutes cooldown, the item would be so broken strong, I would buy one for my mesmer…

As soon as your group gets halfway decent, you run into the problem of overcapping crit.

Full zerk without Sigil of Accuracy, but with Fury, Discipline and Spotter reaches 100% crit chance easily. And thats when Mauradeur probably starts dropping in dps more than just 4%.

Even without a ranger you reach 95%+

If you want to explore the raid, get a cleared raid instance from someone else and explore to your hearts content. Not now, people are selling the instance for 10g lol. But in a few weeks they will give it away for free, like the 1st. You are only missing out the boss fights themself, and they contain no lore.

Math™ by DGraves.

So what you are saying is:

Person A applies a condition with 150 damage per tick for one second every second.
Person B applies a condition with 100 damage per tick for 20 seconds every second.

A will reach 150 dps, B will reach 100 dps?

Having the +3 initiative from Trickery is cool. But for example in HoT Maps, Unhindered Combatant is really nice to have, and some of the utility skills are not too shaby either.

I suggest you try both and see what fits your gameplay more. They are very close in terms of damage. (But Trickery wins in really short fights thanks to Flanking Strikes.)

Yes, I know, but if a skill has 25% less recharge, you will use it 33% more often.

Look at it like this: We make alacrity to 100% increased rc. Every 1s, the skill recharges 2s. this means it halves its recharge. But then you use it twice as often, and that is a 100% increase in skill usage.

Superior Rune of the Chronomancer + Signet of Inspiration helps a lot.

Xyonon.3987:

Heya,

You don’t have to do so much “math”, it’s much MUCH simpler, since everything is % based:

If you assume you have 100% alacrity and quickness uptime you can assume this:
Quickness buffs auto attacks by 50% damage, or rather: skills with 0s CD.
Alacrity buffs skills WITH a cd by up to 25% (40% earlier), aslong as you also have quickness for the casttime itself.

TL;DR:
100% Alacrity and Quickness uptime reulted (pre nerf) into 40-50% damage boost, right now it boosts each person’s dps by 25-50% according on their aa:cdskills ratio. More aa’s = rather 50% dmg. If you only use skills with CD’s, 25%.

Greez!
- Madame Le Blanc.

This is not how the inverse thingy works. If a skill recharges 33% faster, I will use it 33% more often and it will contribute 33% more dps.

So it is 33%-50% now and was 50%-66% before. But it’s only a rough estimation anyway.

Vanilla thief with trickery and dagger/dagger has more dps than staff, as long as you are in the perma quickness group. All hard hitting skills from staff are movement skills and don’t profit from quickness. Using them with the boon active is actually a dps loss.

Step 1: Put mesmer in a seperate sub group.
Step 2: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQJAsencfCtfilfCGoBUrhFljqORn0KFtDShM7MAWgJD-ThhFABuv/g9q/48LA/xflfAoE0c9AkCwrpWA-e
Step 3: …
Step 4: profit cry in a corner

I’m pretty sure the haunting aura was there from day 1.

You are arguing semantics, but as you wish:

Skills with a cooldown (and no activation time) have their contribution to the total dps of a rotation, build or class increased by 66% while under the effect of alacrity.

Molch.2078:

A 40% reduction in cd is, indeed, a 66% dps gain for those skills.

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

…but as you can see, the “DPS increase” of one skill is not the same as the DPS increase of the actual build.

I hope you see the difference now.

Edit:
500 autos, 1000 dmg skill with 10s cd, all has 1s cast time.

Without anything: over10s you do (1000dmg + 9×500dmg)/10s = 550 dps

With both: 1s cast time without quicknes = 0.66s with quicknes. You cast 1000 dmg in 0.66 s, then, in 6s cooldown, you can cast 6/0.66 = 9.09 autohits.
(1000dmg + 9.09*500dmg)/(6s+0.66s) = 832.65dps

832.65/550 = 1.514 -> 51% dmg increase, as expected between 50% and 66% and also much closer to 50% (the value of quicknes) since most of the damage comes from aa.

So, yeah. That IS how it works.

66% increased cooldown recharge is, under for alacrity perfect circumstances (dps comes form cooldowns only, without any cast times), a 66% damage increase, NOT a 40% increase. A skill with 1000 dmg and 10s cd deals 1000/10=100 dps without and 1000/(10*0.6) = 166 dps with alacrity.

A 50% reduction in cd would allow you to use the skill twice as often, resulting in a 100% dmg increase. A 40% reduction in cd is, indeed, a 66% dps gain for those skills.

This means, 100% uptime on both is something between 50-66%. While Miku Lawrence is right, this is still a good estimate. If you keep both buffs on only two other people, you could do 0 damage and you still would be a dps gain.

And even with 33% alacrity, you’re still able to dish out crazy amonts of quickness. Mesmer will have a secure spots in raids. Alacrity is still very good.

One thing I agree on however, is that the cooldowns on both well of Precognition and Recall need their cooldowns adjusted by ~10 seconds. But that’s pretty much it.

Now I understand how you fit 4 ToT in 1 continuum split

Since you usually play focus/shield for pulls (and therefore dont profit from +20% AS for illus), have you tried to use inspiration for more quickness over illusions, at least for gorseval/sabetha?

You also should go zerk. No reason for assassins in raids.

But here is the thing: Chronomancer rune + Concentration gives more quickness, no doubt. It also gives more Damage, since Chrono runes give better stats than leadership + accuracy (255 offensive stats on leadership + sigil, 275 on the chrono rune) AND acurracy doesn’t affect phantasms.

I think after the alacrity nerf we have to sit down and think again anyway. But hey, alacrity doesnt affect weapon swap, and concentration is dependend on good weapon swaps, so its an indirect buff for conc. :P

Why is my reply now before your post? This forum, I swear…

How do you keep a decent quickness uptime on 10 people without runes of the chronomancer?

Concentration on main hand, force on all off-hands.

Mallyx is not a 12% increase, it’s probably not even a 10%. It works on base stats only, so the might and banners won’t get the multiplier. It also has a cast time that costs you 1 auto attack, has lower aoe and gives less damage migation. Dwarf > Demon.

You have 50% boonduration from your herald, and another easy 20% from food. That means you need another 30%. You have 2 possible ways to do that:

a) Sigil of Concentration.
Pros: uses berserker/assassins equip, can be played everywhere by simply switching trinkets.
Cons: Awkward to play. You have to time your weapon swaps. But not that bad once you get used to it.

b) Commander armor + Weapon + bountifull sharpening stones.
Pros: perma 100% boon duration, ez mode.
Cons: Bad for non tanking, needs more expensive utility food.

I have no numbers, but I think mm necro and condi engi would also out dps a condi mesmer. The advantage of mesmer however, is that his damage comes mostly from his iDuelists, meaning his dps won’t drop if he can’t attack for any reason, like green circles at VG.

I think thats another question that won’t get an answer unless we have a dps meter

I’ve been playing around with this for some time now. The dps is good – for a mesmer. But it’s still not comparable to other condi classes (burnserker hurr dur) and you give up a lot of team support since you have to use food/runes/sigils that grant condi duration instead of boon duration and quickness.

You are using 2x Sigil of Blood. Sigils of the same type do not stack.

reikken.4961:

Molch.2078:

That dps meter is strange. I got to 13.5k solo dps with cloak and dagger. Yay me, I guess?

wut, how?
pls explain

or, what were you fighting?

It’s a bug with the dps tool. Even the updated version has it’s quirks…

Tonikor.5637:

I don’t know what you people are on about testing dps on golems and whatnot, but this all looks very amateurish to me.

My advice to the OP is to look into theorycrafting other people have already invested time in, and did it properly. Your build is pretty bad for someone who’s interested in doing top damage and I highly doubt you spent that much time talking to experienced thieves like you mentioned.

Next time do some research, for now refer to:
http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Daredevil_-_Berserker_Staff

It’s not perfect but its more than good enough to start.

Obviously it’s amateurish, but it’s better to have some numbers on your own before you blindly look up DnT. The more peole do theory crafting, the less mistakes we do.

Okay, it seems I somehow missed this thread -.-" My bad, I’ll post my findings here, too, since they fit better. Boon duration is only rounded in the tooltip. Quoting myself from another thread:

Get some food with 14% or 20% boon duration, get some damage, and count the reg heal in your combat log.

Here is a screenshoot of my combat log, once with 0% boon duration, then with 20% and then with 14%. The tooltips said 6s, 7.25s and 6.75s, but the numbers are indeed exactly 20% / 14% higher than the 0% value.

Yes, but i have no videos of it. But it’s rather simple. Get some food with 14% or 20% boon duration, get some damage, and count the reg heal in your combat log.

Edit: Here is a screenshoot of my combat log, once with 0% boon duration, then with 20% and then with 14%. The tooltips said 6s, 7.25s and 6.75s, but the numbers are indeed exactly 20% / 14% higher than the 0% value.

Depends on the strenght of your raid group. The better the group, the more dps you can squeeze out of your healer.

But please don’t go full zerk in a pug. You can try that in a month or so, when the average raid experience of players is higher.

But that’s just the tooltip. If you have 3 seconds of quickness and 96% boonduration, that quickness will last 3 × 1.96 = 5.88 seconds, no matter what the tooltip says.

You can try that with regeneration (or with conditions). The tooltip rounds, but the game itself does not, not even a bit.

The thing is: Can we trust this dpsmeter as a tool, then? May I ask what options you use?

EazyPanda.6419:

Molch.2078:

That dps meter is strange. I got to 13.5k solo dps with cloak and dagger. Yay me, I guess?

Considering Cloak and Dagger> Backstab is burst damage, so it probably did do 13.5k damage in one second.
But to get 13.5k solo DPS with that, you’ll need to be able to spam CnD > backstab every single second. Unfortunately, reveal and initiative costs disallow us from doing so. =(

Nono, don’t worry, I am not that stupid. It was over roughly 2 minutes.

That dps meter is strange. I got to 13.5k solo dps with cloak and dagger. Yay me, I guess?

I used the zerk amulet, not the mauradeur amulet. I read pve, so I assumed zerk.

But yes, this was over 1m40s, no bloodlust ofc.

EDIT: For numbers, we’re talking about the pvp golem. You won’t get 20k dps on that thing. But in a good group 20k is easily possible. Ele does 30k, tho…

I just checked the old cloak and dagger backstab rotation with sigil of force and got 5.5k dps on that golem, not even using heartseeker. Thats a lot more than you have here. Why do you think using initiative will result in a dps loss?

Dahkeus.8243:

edit I actually don’t think you even need that platinum doubloon since 94% and up rounds 1 second boons to 2 seconds.

How did you test that?

Five minutes ago I knew nothing about [DKB], neither did I care. Now I know that their leader takes him/herself and his/her guild way too serious and important. This thread backfired. Hard.

What game mode? Staff ele is probably the best ranged dps for pve.

EazyPanda.6419:

Molch.2078:

No needs to do screens or videos, those numbers are believable. But there is a bit of a problem.

All dps calculation from guilds like DnT are done against targets with 2600 armor. Maybe Vale has less than 2.6k armor. And I’m pretty sure they dont assume all of the ranger buffs all the time.

Now, I dont know exactly what assumptions DnT’s number people use, but I know what I use and I get the same results as they do. And with your rotation, against a raidboss with 2600 Armor, I calculated ~14.8k DPS. That’s a revenant autoattackig on sword, without quickness. And rev can do a lot more that autoattacking, actually.

I’m not sure I follow. =/

The numbers I’ve used are the numbers I’m seeing in the raid itself, not a target golem.
I’m hitting a solid 30k per weakening charge on the Vale guardian itself.
So technically, the numbers I’ve put up are the actual DPS numbers on the Vale Guardian.
I personally do not know how much toughness VG has, nor does it matter.
And the numbers I’m using are not with Druid’s Buffs, its the steady damage I’m getting with passive buffs alone.

All those numbers only have value, if you can compare them. Just saying “Thief has 23k DPS” is not very usefull without comparison, and those comparison have to happen under the same conditions. Now I want to compare thieves to revenants. You have done your thief calculations for the vale guardian fight, I have done mine for rev against a target golem. Can’t compare the two. I looked at your build under mine conditions, if you don’t like that, you can look at the rev under yours. But then you will see revenants dealing 10-12k autohits on the VG, with quickness, and then 23k isn’t that much. It’s still good, but not that good.

Zerk Thieves don’t have low damage, but they also don’t have high damage, and that’s their problem, because they don’t offer anything else.

But we’re kinda off topic here.

No needs to do screens or videos, those numbers are believable. But there is a bit of a problem.

All dps calculation from guilds like DnT are done against targets with 2600 armor. Maybe Vale has less than 2.6k armor. And I’m pretty sure they dont assume all of the ranger buffs all the time.

Now, I dont know exactly what assumptions DnT’s number people use, but I know what I use and I get roughly the same results as they do. And with your rotation, against a raidboss with 2600 Armor, I calculated ~14.8k DPS. That’s more than a revenant autoattackig on sword, without quickness. But quickness is a thing, and rev can do a lot more that autoattacking, actually.

EazyPanda.6419:

But honestly, berserker staff Daredevil outdamages condi-DD. The numbers we can do with Zerk Staff is insane, with roughly 20-25k DPS with 0 downtime if played correctly.

Do you have any numbers/guides/spreadsheeds/whatever as proof?

I saw it for 350 (VG) and 450 (Gorse) in lfg, but no idea if they found someone. Dont think so tbh^^

846 hours over 68 days. That’s 13 h/day, for over two months.

Your last two months were nothing but playing gw2 and sleeping, and now you can play ONE role of ONE class. Now your raid group says they already have 2 P’Warrs, thank you very much, do you know someone who can play condi?

How can you defend this?

If you’re in your own sub group, how do you make sure to get revs 50% boon duration everytime you do your cs rotation?

Scootabuser.4915:

OlliX.1705:

Good point. So whichever works the best probably varies a bit from encounter to encounter.

So.. with the Sigil of Earth being a 60% chance to proc, how realistic is it to get all 5 stacks of bleeding with it?

The equation for determining damage for sigil of earth and other chance on crit proc effects is:

Damage = (Time/(((Critchance * Successrate) * InternalCooldown)+((1-(Critchance*successrate)) * SecPerHit)) * Crichance * Sucessrate *Damageperproc

Divide that by time for DPS

So lets assume you have a 100% crit chance and your seconds per hit is .65 with a 30 second rotation

33719 = (30/(((1*.6)2)+((1-(1.6)).65))1*.6*2735

=

~1123 DPS

It’s using a weighted average to determine the average number of times in between ATTEMPTS to proc the sigil, then you multiply it by the chance at a successful attempt, then by the damage

Can you please explain this formular a bit more indepth (and also fix the missing parenthesis)?

My own formular for sigils with internal cooldowns goes like this:
(average seconds per proc without icd) + (icd) = (seconds per proc)
In your case: (1/0.65 × 0.6) + (2) = (2.92) resulting in 2735/2.92=936 DPS.

Since this assumes that I start attacking whenever the sigil goes of cd, this value should still be too high. So I wrote a simulation for this, and the simulated dps over 100.000 hits is ~900 dps.

programm sigil_dps
time = procs = cd = 0
do 100000 times
     time += 0.65
     cd = max(0, cd-0.65)
     if cd == 0 and random() < 0.6
          cd += 2
          procs += 1
     end if
end do
output(procs/time*2735)