Guild Wars 2

Terrorsquad.2349:

Arantheal.7396:

daily reminder that turret engis are easy to kill by focusing them down.
they have zero escapes, just 2 condi-clears every 20(15) seconds and one automatic transmute every 15sec.
that’s it. the rest is just a healthbar and 1 single-target cc.

If you see multiple turret engis, zerg up in the first stage of the fight, clear the notes together by focusing them down and then spawn-camp and/or intercept their team since they have no option to fight back between the nodes, whatsoever.

A-net will not balance this, just because you suffer from such big l2p issues.

Only a handfull of ppl can actually take them down easily. Ive been winning 2v1’s so many times today and yesterday.

Started playing turret engi yesterday to see how OP it rly was.. And it’s OP..

Yeah it’s not L2P so much as “I’m playing a build that counters turret engis so y’all are noobs.”

And I’d still like to see how these counter-builds fare against two or more turret engis on one point.

I posted a comment in another thread that I think is relevant here:

“I made one of these turret engis to see what the hoopla was about, and literally as soon as I began playing I was able to vastly outperform other players. As in, I spent 5 minutes reading the turret engi breakdown on metabattle and that was enough to face stomp in sPvP. After ~5 matches I had figured out enough tricks with the engineer that I was able to outsmart the builds who were gunning for me long enough for another teammate to come and stomp them so I could get back to picking my nose or looking at clouds out the window. It would usually take 2-3 players to take me down, during which time my teammates would be 4v3 or 4v2. At first I was just using it to complete the engi daily, but I stopped and now I don’t even want to play it because it’s unfair and unfun. Might figure out some other engi specs just so those tomes of knowledge don’t go to waste on him…

And this is coming from someone who is a total noob at sPvP in general, so people who are better than me can no doubt pull even more tricks out of the build."

People are saying on here that it’s only good at holding one point, but that isn’t true either. I’d pick up my turrets after defending a point and take them to where the big team fight was happening for an almost guaranteed wipe of the enemy team.

DeceiverX.8361:

Looks like mag took the keep but wants to keep fighting. Where’s SBI if you want to fight so bad? Or is hiding in nearby towers while mag fights for you while not capping them what you consider fighting fair?

Give me a break.

http://i945.photobucket.com/albums/ad295/NooFaiL/Random%20Stuff/MagSBIGangup2_zpswswdzi1l.jpg

http://i945.photobucket.com/albums/ad295/NooFaiL/Random%20Stuff/gw092_zpspdwddrrw.jpg

Funny thing is SBI is still solidly in 3rd place. All they’re doing is helping Mag get a bigger win.

FrownyClown.8402:

Rhialto.8423:

Arius.7031:

t3 is terrible. Having fought Mag, DB, and SBI recently, each server only has a few gems and a sea of rubbish. PYRO is okay, VR is okay, every other guild on Mag is average to trash. Weak pugs. Solid roamers. SBI has great zerg pugs, terrible otherwise, no serious guilds. DB is just all around pretty terrible in just about every conceivable way.

Tier 3 is not the fights tier at this moment. I’d say of all tiers I’ve been in, it’s among the worst for fights.

Mag, you cannot makes a fights tier when you have so few fights guilds. You can’t do it. You’ll need to get way more fights guilds before we’re anywhere near making t3 a fights tier. Until then, it’s one of the most abominable PPT tiers around, with Mag’s scrub ppters (sfd/fail) fighting db’s ppters (everyone in SEA) with some poor 3rd server caught in the middle of the ajs.

Mag is definitely taking this matchup so far, no doubt about that. But you’re off the mark when you talk about their roamers… they are terrible. I have run into exactly two that were really good in the past week, a mesmer and guard duo who ran the train on groups double their size. The rest melt in even matchups, lose favorable matchups, and run away if you catch them 1v1.

Mag has blobs, SBI and DB don’t have comparable blobs when Mag’s blobs are blobbing. Not saying Mag isn’t earning their win bc that’s the WvW meta but that’s it.

what? DB never fights us unless they outblob us. SBI at least fights.

SBI and Mag seem hell-bent on attacking DB and not each other. Which is fine, but makes SBI fools for doing so, because it’ll just launch Mag into T2 and leave SBI ranked below DB, since Mag just turns around and wrecks face on SBI once they’ve gotten the DB folks to log off.

Even with the double-teaming, SBI still can’t catch up to DB in the matchups. I doubt Anet is looking at who’s better at blobbing when they determine their rankings, they’re just looking at the realm scores.

Sagat.3285:

Terrorsquad.2349:

choovanski.5462:

Terrorsquad.2349:

choovanski.5462:

ya’ll crack me up. all a’ you know that condi counters the build so hard it becomes your whipping boy, and ya’ll still QQ. ya’ll know rocket turret first then dps engi, but i never see ya’ll do it ingame.

Had to laugh here a bit :> Condi build taking out rocket turret.. hue

generalisation bud. basically no one i see in pvp runs condi, so they are all power/cele not taking the rocket turret out first. idk why? a missile fetish?

condi builds should just spam condis on the engi. easy win.

Good players playing condi, yes

Exactly most players are stuck to meta but turrets can push it away from that into more condi or range focus but players hold back. If the meta was condi you would never hear from them. Counters exist for everything if the whole game has to change to condi to put them in hole of fear I’m fine with it but not how long it might take. They will simply include it in meta and you will see it in tournaments just like the rest of meta just because we don’t want to shift meta.

The meta shouldn’t change to counter one specific build. The fact that it might have to should be plenty of evidence that the build is wildly overpowered for the skill it takes to play.

I made one of these turret engis to see what the hoopla was about, and literally as soon as I began playing I was able to vastly outperform other players. As in, I spent 5 minutes reading the turret engi breakdown on metabattle and that was enough to face stomp in sPvP. After ~5 matches I had figured out enough tricks with the engineer that I was able to outsmart the builds who were gunning for me long enough for another teammate to come and stomp them so I could get back to picking my nose or looking at clouds out the window. It would usually take 2-3 players to take me down, during which time my teammates would be 4v3 or 4v2. At first I was just using it to complete the engi daily, but I stopped and now I don’t even want to play it because it’s unfair and unfun. Might figure out some other engi specs just so those tomes of knowledge don’t go to waste on him…

And this is coming from someone who is a total noob at sPvP in general, so people who are better than me can no doubt pull even more tricks out of the build.

I’m excited for new specializations. Should bring more interesting combos to PvP, which my my favorite part of this game.

narwhalsbend.7059:

Water combat is great and I’m disappointed that so many people hate it.

People hate it because it’s totally different than combat on land. Not the fact that the mechanics are slightly different, but the fact that your class abilities are completely different. Many classes find their gear to be completely worthless when they get underwater because it improves stats that their weapons don’t favor and their traits aren’t built for. You can’t drop combo fields where you want them so a lot of boon-stacking strategies are out the window as well.

Add that to the arbitrary restrictions on utility skills and the fact that one piece of gear gets replaced with a worthless water breather and the only good thing about being underwater is that it looks really cool.

Olvendred.3027:

Floacious.5148:

Sigh. I tried just outright disabling the Strafe Left, Strafe Right, and Dodge commands and no change. She just friggin rolls every time I touch “W”. -.-

Did you try unchecking “Double Tap to Evade”?

Best advice. You don’t need double tap at all to play this game. Keybind your dodge to something on your mouse, you’ll never go back.

Arius.7031:

t3 is terrible. Having fought Mag, DB, and SBI recently, each server only has a few gems and a sea of rubbish. PYRO is okay, VR is okay, every other guild on Mag is average to trash. Weak pugs. Solid roamers. SBI has great zerg pugs, terrible otherwise, no serious guilds. DB is just all around pretty terrible in just about every conceivable way.

Tier 3 is not the fights tier at this moment. I’d say of all tiers I’ve been in, it’s among the worst for fights.

Mag, you cannot makes a fights tier when you have so few fights guilds. You can’t do it. You’ll need to get way more fights guilds before we’re anywhere near making t3 a fights tier. Until then, it’s one of the most abominable PPT tiers around, with Mag’s scrub ppters (sfd/fail) fighting db’s ppters (everyone in SEA) with some poor 3rd server caught in the middle of the ajs.

Mag is definitely taking this matchup so far, no doubt about that. But you’re off the mark when you talk about their roamers… they are terrible. I have run into exactly two that were really good in the past week, a mesmer and guard duo who ran the train on groups double their size. The rest melt in even matchups, lose favorable matchups, and run away if you catch them 1v1.

Mag has blobs, SBI and DB don’t have comparable blobs when Mag’s blobs are blobbing. Not saying Mag isn’t earning their win bc that’s the WvW meta but that’s it.

This would be a great idea. I almost don’t want to wear them as it is, but the glow effect is too cool not to…

Rhaegar.1203:

Zhaitan shouldn’t count. While I don’t want to talk about the very anticlimatic fight the last dungeon was, in the end it’s clear the whole Pact took Zhaitan down. No one gave it a last deathblow.

Unlike the Shadow of the Dragon. That was all us. We are very powerful, almost Legendary. Only Destiny’s Edge is above, having taken down more than one Dragon Champion in their prime.

The fight was anticlimactic because we had spent the greater part of the end of the living story figuring out ways to cut off Zhaitan’s sources of power and sustenance. It was basically starving to death by the time we killed it and it still takes ships full of megalasers to bring it down for good.

So, while the PC doesn’t deliver one single final blow that kills Zhaitan they do spend a long time creating the conditions for its death, which is a very impressive feat. The ability to set huge events in motion that lead to a specific outcome is powerful, more so than being able to swing a sword really hard or make a really strong fireball.

FrownyClown.8402:

Mag is already well on its way to taking DB’s spot in t2. If fight guilds did come to t3 they should go to the other servers to even it out. Also, mag didnt really do any “deals” with SBI. I just think they respect us a bit more since all db does is flip during sea and push with siege.

I’m sure they respected Mag a lot after y’all ran the steamroller over them!

And if Mag or SBI doesn’t like that people actually use the game mechanics of WvW, I’m not sure what to say. Although my unfortunate reading of that cesspool of the internet, gw2wvwnet, leads me to believe that the tryhards there really don’t like siege weapons.

Yeah top PvPers aren’t trying to play fair and competitive, they are trying to win. If they aren’t playing turret engi it’s because they think a different setup is better, plain and simple.

Turret engi will receive a nerf eventually, but it’s not going to be because of pvp streamers. Or tournaments. I thought turret engi was banned from those tourneys anyway.

Junkpile.7439:

That gw2wvw.net is some awesome kitten. Blob guilds blob together and outblob enemy PUG blob and then they whine that enemy using siege and defend keeps. Need to remember that they don’t care about PPT. Their guild blob just wanna fight against PUG blob even numbers because it’s not fun if you have even small chance to lose open field fight.

Haha yup:
http://www.gw2wvw.net/comment/141091#comment-141091

181 bags last night. Would have been more but DB insisted on hiding in their keeps behind siege.

Would be fun to catch this one without his blob but I doubt it’ll happen.

remiostad.2768:

Just quite simply asking if it’s allowed with coordinated double teaming against the third opponent.

Example: You’re server “1” and is the one getting double teamed against. While one blob from server “2” is trying to take your Garri/Keep on one side drawing your attention, the other blob from server “3” comes behind. In this example, Server “2” succeeds to ram the door/cata the wall open where our server gets ready to fight, naturally. Server “3” succeeds getting their wall/door open also.

Now, from multiple observations and the fact that server “3” has higher score and is higher on leaderboards, server “2” is just aiding server “3” in getting points. At this time, We are holding the Keep/Garri as long as possible while small guild groups is caping stuff on their homeborders instead.

This happened to Dragonbrand recently. Some players from Maguuma and Stormbluff Isle made a pseudo-alliance with each other. Stormbluff doesn’t have the numbers, so they’ll distract us while the big Mag blobs hit where they want.

Of course, once Mag got the middle keep from us they just ran the train on Stormbluff and took their areas… sooo… that worked out well. All’s fair in war, but I have to laugh at the utter failure of that plan to work out in SBI’s favor.

As a member of Dragonbrand I support this message.

Your choices are: join Maguuma if you want numbers, join Dragonbrand if you want to give Maguuma a run for their money, and join Stormbluff if you want to make sneaky back-alley deals with Maguuma because you can’t compete.

We like fighting against Maguuma though.

Ho Lee Crap.

Might as well give ANet my account number so that can take all of my moneys. This could be the skin that finally gets my guardian out of his Vigil armor.

dancingmonkey.4902:

The problem I see here is that they have made several dev post on this matter and a dev created thread asking a few specific question that will help then to resolve the issue, but I only see a very very small handful of posters in this thread, who have posted in that one.

My question is, why are so many of looking to pointlessly complain and moan about, while going out of your way to contribute to the solution?

I am not a programmer so I can’t offer a solution. I can let them know that we were experiencing the issue last night though. Sorry man, best you’re gonna get from a lot of people. You want server experts? Call Google.

Yup we were having bad lag on Dragonbrand yesterday. Serious rubber banding and people freezing and reappearing further away or closer, very annoying.

Didn’t seem to be happening to all three sides at the same time but occasionally we’d be fighting someone and they’d stand still for a few seconds and die.

Merchant Of Shadows.1526:

So this week for news we get: A devs bio, the upcoming POI topic, and a little summary of what we’ve done.

I’m the BIGGEST fanboy for anet. I’ve met the artists and devs in person, own the CE of gw2 along with the CE strategy guide, own multiple posters that are up around my room, have the Guild Wars 2 dragon t-shirt, and have done everything in this game possible without grinding for hours on end.

Waiting for new content is very hard for me as I want everything RIGHT NOW. I was the same way the day they announced guild wars 2. I was super hyped. The hype died but I could content myself with doing new stuff in Guild Wars.

Now with GW2 I’ve gotten to the point where I feel like I’m done. Like I’ve beaten the game. There is no content I haven’t done yet or areas left to explore but I’ve gotten used to that fact and still do everything I can to enjoy the game as much as possible, but I’m tired of waiting for news. The last new news that was really enjoyable to learn about and made me want to talk to my friends who play and go “OMG DID YOU READ THAT blah blah blah!?” was the few revenant skills we got to learn about and then later test in the stress test and I’m ready for new news.

When I log into the game and talk about HoT there is nobody with new info. Nobody has anything new to say. All we can do is speculate, which was fun for a while, but after so much you hear it all. I’ve heard everything from “Thieves will be Snipers” to “Eles are going to dual wield swords”.

With April 1st just past I though for sure SAB would make a come back. You brought back the minis, and it would have been a perfect time to release something new or re release the old worlds at least, but again the opportunity was passed up for something mildly amusing and quite annoying after 15 min. I realize maybe resources weren’t available for SAB right then and there because of HoT, but if that’s the case can we at least get a little more info? Something we can sink our teeth into whilst we wait?

When you consider all we’re getting in the game atm are cosmetics, it feels very incomplete.

GIMME GIMME GIMME

NOW NOW NOW

WAH WAH WAH

That’s what I hear when I read that.

The nerf is absolutely coming. At this point it’s just gotten to be a joke. But don’t blame people for playing it when they want to win and get the track rewards/daily rewards. If they start comparing the AI to actual skill? Yeah, blame them haha.

ledernierrempart.6871:

so you say that you have no problems to fight with your condi champ againt someone that have the -40%condi duration food?

Are you responding to me? I don’t, no hard feelings from me. It’s like me taking toughness runes or wearing armor to mitigate the effects of burst classes. And it doesn’t affect me much since I’m using +duration food and giver’s weapons. At that point it’s just like fighting someone in sPvP. Also, if they are taking food to reduce conditions then they’re giving up a possible benefit elsewhere.

I like my food buffs. Combined with my giver’s weapons it lets me counteract that soup that everyone seems to be so fond of! If it’s too expensive for you just buy the next lower version, it’s usually a small fraction of the price and the 1% reduction in power isn’t going to make the biggest difference in the world.

I want to see two opposing turret engineers set up on the same point. It’ll be like rock’em sock’em robots! Who will win?? No supply crates allowed.

Carighan.6758:

Rhialto.8423:

Different skills would make sense if and only if it doesn’t require an entirely different gear set to be effective. In other words, if I’m using a power trait set and gear, my underwater skills shouldn’t switch to something based on condition damage. Right now it’s a crap shoot whether or not your gear and underwater skills line up at all.

Yeah there’d still need to be enough skills so that you can have a set of power skills, for example (I mean, you configure the bar yourself).

Likewise for weapons, need a power and a condi weapon in the current setup, which for Mesmer works out fine.

Rhialto.8423:

As for the drowning mechanic you propose, I am 100% against that. It would basically be instant death in places like Frostgorge Sound, and it’s way too gimmicky. There’s no reason to have it be any different than how it is on land. Anyway, it makes no sense that my crappy masterwork graveborn breather would stop working just because I got knocked out.

Understandable, though I like it for atmospheric purposes. I mean it’d be a very unlikely change anyhow as it’s too late in the game for it. And probably for underwater as a whole, especially after they removed it from WvW .

Yup, it just feels like underwater skills are too much of an afterthought at this point. And let me summon my elementals down there! Make the fire elemental boil the water around it for effect or something. I know it isn’t a weight issue, because my guardian swims around in thick plate armor like he’s a freaking dolphin.

As for drowning, I just can’t do it, not since playing the chemical plant in Sonic 2 as a kid. I actually love scuba in real life but just thinking about that drowning music is giving me heart palpitations! I am a wimp. Best part about being underwater in GW2 is being able to survive no matter how far down I go.

Carighan.6758:

Rhialto.8423:

Different skills would make sense if and only if it doesn’t require an entirely different gear set to be effective. In other words, if I’m using a power trait set and gear, my underwater skills shouldn’t switch to something based on condition damage. Right now it’s a crap shoot whether or not your gear and underwater skills line up at all.

Yeah there’d still need to be enough skills so that you can have a set of power skills, for example (I mean, you configure the bar yourself).

Likewise for weapons, need a power and a condi weapon in the current setup, which for Mesmer works out fine.

Rhialto.8423:

As for the drowning mechanic you propose, I am 100% against that. It would basically be instant death in places like Frostgorge Sound, and it’s way too gimmicky. There’s no reason to have it be any different than how it is on land. Anyway, it makes no sense that my crappy masterwork graveborn breather would stop working just because I got knocked out.

Understandable, though I like it for atmospheric purposes. I mean it’d be a very unlikely change anyhow as it’s too late in the game for it. And probably for underwater as a whole, especially after they removed it from WvW .

Yup, it just feels like underwater skills are too much of an afterthought at this point. And let me summon my elementals down there! Make the fire elemental boil the water around it for effect or something. I know it isn’t a weight issue, because my guardian swims around in thick plate armor like he’s a freaking dolphin.

As for drowning, I just can’t do it, not since playing the chemical plant in Sonic 2 as a kid. I actually love scuba in real life but just thinking about that drowning music is giving me heart palpitations! I am a wimp. Best part about being underwater in GW2 is being able to survive no matter how far down I go.

nexidecimus.5973:

Mik.3401:

I don’t get this whole idea of sword for elemenists. It just doesn’t suit them, there is a reason why they have no melee weapons and have that mage image. Look at GW1 concept art and characters.

you must not have played gw1 very much because eles can use sword in gw1. also, i dont know why everyone is speculating on what the skills could be. they have already been datamined and posted on reddit.

This thread is a massive necro. No comments for a year until a couple of days ago.

Carighan.6758:

I am quite annoyed by this, too.

I mean people keep saying “But underwater would need a huge overhaul”, but honestly, no. It doesn’t. It’s a relatively small set of issues which doesn’t even have a big impact:

• Not all skills available. Now, not all of them would conceptually make sense (Flamethrower), but that’s a minor issue in the end. There are some crucial class skills not available but really, rather than seeing all land-skills work underwater I’d rather have some of them work, some not work, and some skills which are underwater-only, giving classes more unique identity.
• Weapons being different is something which is good about underwater, IMO. I mean it adds a unique flavor, classes aren’t just carbon copies of what they are above water.
• 360° movement being a problem, well, if you dislike this then fair enough but it is the central component of the combat. It’s what makes it awesome.

Honestly, I think even across all classes underwater right now is “ok”. Certainly enough to feature plenty underwater content, though I’d abstain from fully-underwater zones until some things are changed.
And while I’d love to see those change, I absolutely hate the removal of underwater we have right now. It’s one of the most atmospheric parts of GW2, and plenty underwater areas hold interesting surprises. Yet due to the PvP-rage about it (I suppose) we’re seeing it removed instead. Bleh.

Things I’d change:

• More skills available, as above, but not all land skills rather I’d want classes to have some underwater-only skills.
• Remove the current drowning mechanic which is a carbon copy of the land one. Instead add that you can only revive by hitting the surface, making skills which float or sink you or targets very crucial to underwater combat and making depth both an opportunity and a problem.
• Long-term, introduce underwater-only content in PvE, making the revival via surface-only a very very real problem to PvE difficulty.

Different skills would make sense if and only if it doesn’t require an entirely different gear set to be effective. In other words, if I’m using a power trait set and gear, my underwater skills shouldn’t switch to something based on condition damage. Right now it’s a crap shoot whether or not your gear and underwater skills line up at all.

As for the drowning mechanic you propose, I am 100% against that. It would basically be instant death in places like Frostgorge Sound, and it’s way too gimmicky. There’s no reason to have it be any different than how it is on land. Anyway, it makes no sense that my crappy masterwork graveborn breather would stop working just because I got knocked out.

I turned off post processing in WvW today. Still had the airplane arms but no crazy filter on the camera. Made everything a lot easier to see.

Phineas Poe.3018:

Rhialto.8423:

But when people know what they are doing they can bust you up in a heartbeat, as they absolutely should.

Mesmers strongly counter most engineer builds as it is, so saying mesmers have an easy time with turrets isn’t exactly vindicating the build’s balance or anything.

Truthfully, the best way to counter a turret engi is to simply get them away from their turrets. Stealth magnet pulls are very powerful, especially when coordinated with an Intelligence sigil burst.

Oh I’m not saying it’s balanced at all. It’s incredibly cheap and it’s only a matter of time before they’re nerfed (I hope). I’m just glad I had a hard counter for it on my team at the time.

I wondered what happened. It happened to me in the middle of WvW, got a huge lag spike and when I used the waypoint my airplane arms were gone.

SobeSoul.6910:

glock.6590:

In solo Q its a free win. Players will never have enough coordination to beat a build that requires at least 2 people to kill unless you are using a specific counter build.

Requires one good player. Some classes aren’t adept at doing it, but on my engie I have no real troubles with one turret engie. Condi builds and power rangers can deal with them. Thieves can even deal with them, but there’s usually better things the thief can do in the time it takes for a thief to take down a turret engie.

Exactly. I played a ranked solo queue game where the opposing team had a turret engineer camping mid. I couldn’t beat him on my ele but the mesmer we had with us sure could, and they knew what they were doing. They killed that engineer like it was their ticket to the Wonka factory and soon enough the engi gave up mid and started trying to roam, at which point we were able to kill them on the road before they got to a point and dropped their turrets. We won that game (it was close but very fun) and I definitely think it was because the mesmer played to their strengths and the engi’s weaknesses.

Are turret engineers braindead easy? Hell yes. I’ll occasionally bust mine out for a quick win when the daily rolls around for engi and it takes very, VERY little skill to outperform other classes, especially when people aren’t playing smart against me. But when people know what they are doing they can bust you up in a heartbeat, as they absolutely should.

It gets worse when the turreteer picks up their turrets after you leave the point. Because then they can just take the turrets to wherever the 4v5 is happening and wipe you there, which frees the rest of the team to cap the other points while you respawn.

Or they can wait until you get on point to drop their turrets again, preventing you from sniping them at a distance.

Of course most turret engineers will just sit there picking their noses on one point while they take a steam bath in the mist from their healing turret, so this usually isn’t a problem.

I could go for some pastels and eggs.

Well, you just spoiled Titanic for me. Now I know that somebody stands at the front of the boat going NYYYEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRR WUB WUB WUB VROOM. I’m triggered.

I love how this has become a “only Europeans understand” thing now. There were Americans on the plane that crashed in the alps. So please, PC Warriors, find a better excuse for having the emotional resiliency of a toddler.

Vykoz.7803:

Err i think a lot of the worlds population / countries think another way than you then, if you dont consider this a major disaster, have a great day, while we others are sad.

Yeah let’s go ask someone in Africa or Asia how upset they are about a plane crash that killed Americans and Europeans.

Hate to break it to you but the majority of the world isn’t upset about this.

Vykoz.7803:

Rhialto.8423:

Vykoz.7803:

US daily gun killings/problems are not considered a major disaster that has contries in tears and is not reported on the news world wide.

9/11 on the other hand was, and i doubt a lof of americans would laugh hard at this joke a week after that, i for sure wouldnt.

Remind me again how a plane crash is the same as a terrorist attack that kills THOUSANDS of people. Holy kitten people, we have officially gone insane.

Sure i will write it once more since you must have missed it.

Both are considered major catastrophies, both are reported in news around the world, both have countries in tears, for weeks.

You know, like people handle other major disasters around the world.

They are not comparable at all, and a single plane crash is not a major disaster.

Vykoz.7803:

US daily gun killings/problems are not considered a major disaster that has contries in tears and is not reported on the news world wide.

9/11 on the other hand was, and i doubt a lof of americans would laugh hard at this joke a week after that, i for sure wouldnt.

Remind me again how a plane crash is the same as a terrorist attack that kills THOUSANDS of people. Holy kitten people, we have officially gone insane.

Colcuray.8941:

With close to a hundred rants about this april fool airplane mode and 98% of them negative, I think you should reconsider this prank. Do a hotfix and either remove it or allow players to turn it off. If you don’t you’ll probably see a marked decrease in your customer base tomorrow.

Most of the threads are 2 or 3 whiner babies crying about their hurt feelings and 20-30 posts telling them to grow up. Just because you keep starting whine threads doesn’t mean 98% of people agree with you!

gloflop.3510:

When I logged in tonight, I first smiled. April 1st… However, my smile froze rapidly.

I don’t know why you guys are laughing but this is NOT FUNNY. Somewhere out there is a guy with his face FROZEN SOLID.

How about instead of joking around we get this guy some help??

Can we talk about the bonfires for a second? Is it just me or are these things suddenly burning everyone to death?

This entire forum is triggering me right now.

http://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Salim_Ghadafar

You could play him like this guy. He’s been forced against his will to serve the goddess of death, but he doesn’t believe that the gods are actually gods. He just believes that they are very powerful creatures who are in the long run just as petty as any other creature in the universe.

The human gods of Tyria could be seen this way too. Essentially they are just extremely powerful entities who can be brought down with the right amount of effort.

DarkSpirit.7046:

Rhialto.8423:

To which the Theist would undoubtedly reply that we aren’t looking hard enough or that Allah is the force BEHIND the force that we observe. An agnostic would leave the possibility for a god as the explanation, whereas the atheist wouldn’t consider the possibility of a god without evidence leading us to that conclusion in the first place.

That sounds like a fallacy to me. Just because we do not have evidence of something, doesn’t necessarily imply that it doesn’t exist. Sure, it doesn’t imply that it exists either, but I said still holds true.

For example, we have no evidence that alien lifeforms exist, yet most scientists that you ask today would think that they do. In other words, they have “faith” that they do exist even though they have no real evidence to support that other than just probability.

In which case I would point you here: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell's_teapot

The acknowledgement of the possibility of life on other worlds is based on observations of the conditions for life here on earth and the fact that we have telescopes that can see evidence for planets who could potentially support those same conditions (moons in the solar system and planets elsewhere).

eisberg.2379:

Rhialto.8423:

phys.7689:

Rhialto.8423:

phys.7689:

Rhialto.8423:

Mirta.5029:

phys.7689:

Ok, I ll say atheisim is more than a lack of belief, it is a belief in no god. A as a prefix means not, or non thei represents god/religion, and ism is basically a belief/practice

so atheisim, i would say is not the lack of belief in god, but rather the belief in no god.
i think agnosticism, is probably more properly a lack of belief.

the default position is always negative until proven otherwise. “I have a dolphin in my bath” “I don’t believe in you”. Atheism is a similar deal. Still you can’t believe in lack of belief. That’s kind of like playing “I’m not going to play chess because I dislike it”.

Right on. Atheism isn’t a belief in the lack of something. It’s the refusal to accept untestable theories as explanations for what happens in the universe. I dismiss god as an explanation for things for the same reason that I dismiss the possibility that my car runs on skittles that pretend to be gasoline.

I don’t spend my day thinking of all of the things that God isn’t doing any more that I spend it thinking of how my dog isn’t causing the sun to emit light. Atheism is a belief in what IS rather than what ISN’T. It just so happens that theism is one of the dominant forces in our world, so we have to define ourselves by saying we aren’t part of that mindset.

if you dont know what your car runs on at all, you shouldnt really eliminate skittles from being the answer. People could build a car that runs on skittles, and you would thus be incorrect. In fact, being that skittles can power animals movements, it really isnt that improbably that one could create a car that uses the chemical energy in skittles to power a vehicle.

People have a bad habit of thinking because they do not know something, it does not exist. That isnt a logical argument. This is the same logic people would have used against radio waves, infrared and ultraviolet colors, atoms, etc.

a lack of belief, from the belief that something is false, those are two very different ideas.

now, you are free to believe whatever you want, and spend no time thinking about things you dont care about. But the lack of proof, is not a proof that something is not true. That is a mistake in logic.

I think the key was “skittles pretending to be gasoline” but good job homing in on the fact that I mentioned skittles.

Atheism isn’t the belief that God doesn’t exist. It is the lack of belief that God is a necessity for describing the universe. It is the act of saying “why did that just happen” without ascribing the possibility of anything but what is observed. If I don’t know what my car runs on, I will try to find out. I won’t say “I don’t know so it’s god until I prove otherwise.” The only reason that atheists define themselves according to what they aren’t is because the majority of people we meet define themselves by a different standard and we need to distinguish somehow.

My other posts were lost to the forum squirrels, apparently.

so by your definition, what is the difference between an atheist, and someone who says i dunno.
or is there no difference in your opinion?

That is nonsense. Of course an atheist will say “I dunno” if they don’t know something. Here’s the difference: an atheist would say “I dunno, so I’ll find out,” an agnostic would say “I dunno, so I’ll find out but I can’t say for sure that it isn’t god,” and a Theist would say “God sure works in mysterious ways.”

That is way to general of statement to make.

Being a theist doesn’t mean they don’t want to find out more about how the universe/world came to be and how things work. There are theist astronomers, geologists, evolution scientists, ect; there are theists in all forms of science.

Yes, and it’s ironic. At some point you need to attribute the existence of phenomena to god, or else you’ll keep looking for the answer behind the answer and keep finding non-religious explanations for your questions, at which point god might as well not exist if it has no effect on the universe.

Every time we ask “why” we get an answer that is something other than god or angels dancing on the head of a pin. Every single time. The mental gymnastics required to shift the effect of God one level further down the answer chain must be exhausting.

phys.7689:

Rhialto.8423:

phys.7689:

Rhialto.8423:

phys.7689:

Rhialto.8423:

Mirta.5029:

phys.7689:

Ok, I ll say atheisim is more than a lack of belief, it is a belief in no god. A as a prefix means not, or non thei represents god/religion, and ism is basically a belief/practice

so atheisim, i would say is not the lack of belief in god, but rather the belief in no god.
i think agnosticism, is probably more properly a lack of belief.

the default position is always negative until proven otherwise. “I have a dolphin in my bath” “I don’t believe in you”. Atheism is a similar deal. Still you can’t believe in lack of belief. That’s kind of like playing “I’m not going to play chess because I dislike it”.

Right on. Atheism isn’t a belief in the lack of something. It’s the refusal to accept untestable theories as explanations for what happens in the universe. I dismiss god as an explanation for things for the same reason that I dismiss the possibility that my car runs on skittles that pretend to be gasoline.

I don’t spend my day thinking of all of the things that God isn’t doing any more that I spend it thinking of how my dog isn’t causing the sun to emit light. Atheism is a belief in what IS rather than what ISN’T. It just so happens that theism is one of the dominant forces in our world, so we have to define ourselves by saying we aren’t part of that mindset.

if you dont know what your car runs on at all, you shouldnt really eliminate skittles from being the answer. People could build a car that runs on skittles, and you would thus be incorrect. In fact, being that skittles can power animals movements, it really isnt that improbably that one could create a car that uses the chemical energy in skittles to power a vehicle.

People have a bad habit of thinking because they do not know something, it does not exist. That isnt a logical argument. This is the same logic people would have used against radio waves, infrared and ultraviolet colors, atoms, etc.

a lack of belief, from the belief that something is false, those are two very different ideas.

now, you are free to believe whatever you want, and spend no time thinking about things you dont care about. But the lack of proof, is not a proof that something is not true. That is a mistake in logic.

I think the key was “skittles pretending to be gasoline” but good job homing in on the fact that I mentioned skittles.

Atheism isn’t the belief that God doesn’t exist. It is the lack of belief that God is a necessity for describing the universe. It is the act of saying “why did that just happen” without ascribing the possibility of anything but what is observed. If I don’t know what my car runs on, I will try to find out. I won’t say “I don’t know so it’s god until I prove otherwise.” The only reason that atheists define themselves according to what they aren’t is because the majority of people we meet define themselves by a different standard and we need to distinguish somehow.

My other posts were lost to the forum squirrels, apparently.

so by your definition, what is the difference between an atheist, and someone who says i dunno.
or is there no difference in your opinion?

That is nonsense. Of course an atheist will say “I dunno” if they don’t know something. Here’s the difference: an atheist would say “I dunno, so I’ll find out,” an agnostic would say “I dunno, so I’ll find out but I can’t say for sure that it isn’t god,” and a Theist would say “God sure works in mysterious ways.”

Im saying say this is the question

Does god exist?

does the atheist answer yes, no, or i dont know. as far as you see it.

That’s like asking how many things do you think don’t exist.

The atheist would say that based on our observations of the universe, the creatures described in religious texts are not causing what we observe. Nor is Harry Potter, Mrs
Doubtfire, Lord Xenu, and so on. Asking what isn’t causing something would result in an infinite and meaningless list.

To which the Theist would undoubtedly reply that we aren’t looking hard enough or that Allah is the force BEHIND the force that we observe. An agnostic would leave the possibility for a god as the explanation, whereas the atheist wouldn’t consider the possibility of a god without evidence leading us to that conclusion in the first place.

phys.7689:

Rhialto.8423:

phys.7689:

Rhialto.8423:

Mirta.5029:

phys.7689:

Ok, I ll say atheisim is more than a lack of belief, it is a belief in no god. A as a prefix means not, or non thei represents god/religion, and ism is basically a belief/practice

so atheisim, i would say is not the lack of belief in god, but rather the belief in no god.
i think agnosticism, is probably more properly a lack of belief.

the default position is always negative until proven otherwise. “I have a dolphin in my bath” “I don’t believe in you”. Atheism is a similar deal. Still you can’t believe in lack of belief. That’s kind of like playing “I’m not going to play chess because I dislike it”.

Right on. Atheism isn’t a belief in the lack of something. It’s the refusal to accept untestable theories as explanations for what happens in the universe. I dismiss god as an explanation for things for the same reason that I dismiss the possibility that my car runs on skittles that pretend to be gasoline.

I don’t spend my day thinking of all of the things that God isn’t doing any more that I spend it thinking of how my dog isn’t causing the sun to emit light. Atheism is a belief in what IS rather than what ISN’T. It just so happens that theism is one of the dominant forces in our world, so we have to define ourselves by saying we aren’t part of that mindset.

if you dont know what your car runs on at all, you shouldnt really eliminate skittles from being the answer. People could build a car that runs on skittles, and you would thus be incorrect. In fact, being that skittles can power animals movements, it really isnt that improbably that one could create a car that uses the chemical energy in skittles to power a vehicle.

People have a bad habit of thinking because they do not know something, it does not exist. That isnt a logical argument. This is the same logic people would have used against radio waves, infrared and ultraviolet colors, atoms, etc.

a lack of belief, from the belief that something is false, those are two very different ideas.

now, you are free to believe whatever you want, and spend no time thinking about things you dont care about. But the lack of proof, is not a proof that something is not true. That is a mistake in logic.

I think the key was “skittles pretending to be gasoline” but good job homing in on the fact that I mentioned skittles.

Atheism isn’t the belief that God doesn’t exist. It is the lack of belief that God is a necessity for describing the universe. It is the act of saying “why did that just happen” without ascribing the possibility of anything but what is observed. If I don’t know what my car runs on, I will try to find out. I won’t say “I don’t know so it’s god until I prove otherwise.” The only reason that atheists define themselves according to what they aren’t is because the majority of people we meet define themselves by a different standard and we need to distinguish somehow.

My other posts were lost to the forum squirrels, apparently.

so by your definition, what is the difference between an atheist, and someone who says i dunno.
or is there no difference in your opinion?

That is nonsense. Of course an atheist will say “I dunno” if they don’t know something. Here’s the difference: an atheist would say “I dunno, so I’ll find out,” an agnostic would say “I dunno, so I’ll find out but I can’t say for sure that it isn’t god,” and a Theist would say “God sure works in mysterious ways.”

phys.7689:

Rhialto.8423:

Mirta.5029:

phys.7689:

Ok, I ll say atheisim is more than a lack of belief, it is a belief in no god. A as a prefix means not, or non thei represents god/religion, and ism is basically a belief/practice

so atheisim, i would say is not the lack of belief in god, but rather the belief in no god.
i think agnosticism, is probably more properly a lack of belief.

the default position is always negative until proven otherwise. “I have a dolphin in my bath” “I don’t believe in you”. Atheism is a similar deal. Still you can’t believe in lack of belief. That’s kind of like playing “I’m not going to play chess because I dislike it”.

Right on. Atheism isn’t a belief in the lack of something. It’s the refusal to accept untestable theories as explanations for what happens in the universe. I dismiss god as an explanation for things for the same reason that I dismiss the possibility that my car runs on skittles that pretend to be gasoline.

I don’t spend my day thinking of all of the things that God isn’t doing any more that I spend it thinking of how my dog isn’t causing the sun to emit light. Atheism is a belief in what IS rather than what ISN’T. It just so happens that theism is one of the dominant forces in our world, so we have to define ourselves by saying we aren’t part of that mindset.

if you dont know what your car runs on at all, you shouldnt really eliminate skittles from being the answer. People could build a car that runs on skittles, and you would thus be incorrect. In fact, being that skittles can power animals movements, it really isnt that improbably that one could create a car that uses the chemical energy in skittles to power a vehicle.

People have a bad habit of thinking because they do not know something, it does not exist. That isnt a logical argument. This is the same logic people would have used against radio waves, infrared and ultraviolet colors, atoms, etc.

a lack of belief, from the belief that something is false, those are two very different ideas.

now, you are free to believe whatever you want, and spend no time thinking about things you dont care about. But the lack of proof, is not a proof that something is not true. That is a mistake in logic.

I think the key was “skittles pretending to be gasoline” but good job homing in on the fact that I mentioned skittles.

Atheism isn’t the belief that God doesn’t exist. It is the lack of belief that God is a necessity for describing the universe. It is the act of saying “why did that just happen” without ascribing the possibility of anything but what is observed. If I don’t know what my car runs on, I will try to find out. I won’t say “I don’t know so it’s god until I prove otherwise.” The only reason that atheists define themselves according to what they aren’t is because the majority of people we meet define themselves by a different standard and we need to distinguish somehow.

My other posts were lost to the forum squirrels, apparently.

ReaverKane.7598:

Well, atheism is of itself sort of a religious belief, in the sense that you believe that god doesn’t exist, and as such anyone insulting you or anything over your belief is to be punished.

Except it isn’t. Atheism is not the belief that God doesn’t exist, it’s a lack of belief that God exists. That is an important distinction. There are literally an unending number of things that don’t exist, none of which are necessary in order to define those things which do exist.

Edit: it seems like some people are confusing agnosticism with atheism. Agnostics say “there might be a god who just made that happen but I don’t know” and atheists say “what is the explanation for what just happened?” Atheists don’t say “there might be a god but I don’t believe it” any more than we say “there might be a twelve-headed phantom cow in my bedsheets that I cannot interact with in any way, but still might be there.”