Guild Wars 2

Raided 2 bosses and didn’t get rewards… No in-game mail… GG

Doing a short raid Q&A on my stream tonight. Come ask questions by whispering me (scolotabuser.4915) or in the stream. We’ll answer them as they come

http://www.twitch.tv/scootsna

forgot to post the stream rip

So I finally got around to playing around with venomshare thief. Just finished finding the max dps build.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAoYVl8MhmmYRTwwJw/EHtElOACxFYfoRXiyX0joIA-TBSBQBTSJYHVG4v9Hao6PO7BA0P9AUTpHAOBAkCYRlVA-e

Your rotation is auto attacking and popping venoms (turns out daredevil dodge is a dps loss. it could still be correct however since your going to have to dodge at some point and it mitigates how much damage you lose),

Will post a video when I can convince my team to let me bring it LOL

I’m rich but I don’t like playing the game. How can I go about buying my way into spirit shards.

OrionXnAsh.3064:

It’s not because they say that your venom share build isn’t optimal that you have to say that metabattle is “bad”. Why would you try to post your build if you think the website is bad

Venomshare is so 2 months ago. It’s all about the kidney bean necro now.

Just like to confirm metabattle is bad.

It’s not worth the time trying to post the current good builds since you’d have to spend dozens of hours arguing with spreadsheet nerds about how their math is wrong, just to get any edits done.

Engineer is on the backburner right now, what people have figured out is that chilling the orbs is better control then knocking them back. Engineers have mortor attacks at range which dont’ do much dps compared to condi necro which does 100% of it’s dps at range.

Your prefered comp is 1 necro and the rest burnzerkers for all 3 bosses. Warriors and revs have plenty of knockbacks for seeker control, so you dont really need to kitten your party’s dps just for air blast.

Someone said condi-mesmer, I think I died a little inside.

Dadnir.5038:

First, a build that focus on the potential of only 1 skill is bound to fall down at the first balance patch… Because that mean there is an imbalance if player exploit only 1 skill (Fiery rush/Icebow reminder). So I think that at the moment warrior should enjoy there luck but not keep their hope to high for their dominant build.

On second though, I think more or less that the issue is not the skill but the burn condition. At the moment burn do way to much damage for other condition to keep up. I think the current number would have been ok if burning skill weren’t spamable and burn stayed a low duration condition. Issue is that expertise has come and burn can be spam as much as bleed.

For me, just lowering the burn scaling coefficient should be enough to bring an illusion of balance.

That would nerf every class that uses burns, and make condi necro even stronger then it is now.

Cheezy.2039:

I wish people would stop throwing around numbers without showing any background.

What buffs do you assume?
I can’t picture Engi, with all buffs and a good rotation, doing less than 25k DPS while I don’t see condi Berserker with “average” buffs dishing out 32k DPS.
What rotation do you assume?
Sure, without Alacrity and without having to dodge once I can get out 4x Scorched Earth per Berserker. But when you have to dodge once at the wrong time you will either miss out on the 4th use entirely or it will be mispositioned, etc.

Not sure how you get your Numbers of condi Warrior still having competitive DPS when it’s a single Firefield. With 25 Might, 25 Furious, Fury, 25 Vuln, Banners, Empower Allies, Assassin’s Presence and this rotation I get 20.3k DPS. That’s not exactly competitive, especially when you lose the 4th Scorched Earth.

The exact numbers don’t matter much, the important thing is that burnzerkers are doing NOTICEABLY more damage in game, the fact that they also do on paper just supports that fact.

If they just change it down to 1 field, burnzerker will have competitive damage still. It just wont have totally broken damage like it does now.

P.S.
Gorseval’s real hitbox is small enough that it only gets hit by 2 fields.

Mulling.8421:

A spreadsheet does not reflect the actual reality, on a super hypothetical situation where everything is perfect, maybe, condition berserker can do 34k DPS, but again, that most likely will never happen. + nerfing the burning on berserker will probably kill warrior (beserker) even more in PvP. Making scorched earth into a single fire field and buffing the burn duration on flame flurry is a good way to balance it.

There is plenty of evidence showing how much more DPS burnzerker does then all other classes on not only gor, but vale and sabetha as well. The exact numbers people come up with on spreadsheets is irrelevant.

Poop.4295:

Main problem is that it’s situational damage.

If it’s not the perfect environment like an immobile boss or a dummy then its dps drops off significantly which is why it’s not even a suggestably viable build in pvp.

I wouldn’t call it “meta” since most other metas work in many scenarios whereas this one is completely shut down by simple movement.

Actually, if you watch any of the kill videos involving burnzerkers, it doesn’t require a perfect environment to do the top dps in the game, it is easily done in a raid setting.

Zui.9245:

Out of curiosity, what buffs did you assume when calculating DPS for condi warrior ("burnzerker)?

Everything except grace of land and that druid glyph for all our numbers right now, however were going back and doing a no buff table, and a everything except druid buffs and alacrity table.

NikeEU.7690:

Which raid boss is heavy armor?

If your implying that I don’t know the exact armor on the raid bosses, you would be correct. Finding the exact armor numbers for each boss is low priority right now though. If your in possession of the actual armor amounts, or have a reason why we should prioritize finding exact armor values, I’d love to see it

Hey everyone, scoots from [NA]. I just wanted to shed a little light on why my team, and seemingly everyone else is swapping to comps focused entirely around burnzerkers.

As rickay continues to build his massive spreadsheet, we are seeing a very balanced pattern in DPS. Most viable condi classes are falling within the 23k-25k range, while power classes are hitting between 20-23k (this is due to us using heavy armored targets for calculations).

Viper Burnzerker is currently hitting 32k dps on the spreadsheet. After double checking the math and comparing with KINGS, SC, ect… videos, there is no denying that burnzerkers are doing noticeably more damaged then any other class (save elemenalist in certain situations.)

While I don’t see anything wrong with certain classes being meta, this seems to be unintended since all the other viable class builds are within 5% of each other.

The more you know eh?

http://sickestguild.com/forum/m/31644179/viewforum/6276105

OK here’s what I’ve come up with:
Lich form has always been more DPS then flesh golem if you can keep the minions up, but fleshy has a really strong breakbar break and is a bit easier to keep alive.

So your either replacing blood or reaper with death magic. Reaper is MUCH stronger then blood even if you can’t keep a 100% uptime on chill. You also give up some of your breakbar abilities which is really bad in raids.

Death Magic does out DPS the blood line at the cost of the utility if you can keep a minion or 2 alive, math says each minions doing around 1000 DPS which is about as much as the blood line is giving you, so having 2 minions up is better. Thanks for the help guys, ill update the kitten and try it out nextime i raid.

were making some progress, at least people aren’t still talking about dhummfire

Maxzero.4032:

One thing about Sigils.

Read what the Sigil of Geomancy does very carefully. It does not work on any weapon swap just “when you swap to this weapon.” So it only works on half of your weapon swaps (testing it myself confirms this mechanic). So to get full value out of it you need it on each set of weapons.

Since you are constantly weapon swapping Sigil of Earth is only getting 50% of its benefit as well.

But do not despair there is an upside.

Constantly swapping for Geomancy procs actually results in more Bleeds then using Earth.

Assuming 100% Bleed duration:

Earth is one 10 second Bleed every two seconds. So a max of 5 stacks.
Geomancy is 3 × 20 second bleeds every 10 seconds. So a max of 6 stacks.

The trade off is that you need to be in melee range whereas you can be anywhere for Earth. In addition the Geomancy is more expensive since you need a second Ascended weapon to switch too.

But do get one extra Bleed so about ~250 more DPS.

So for me the max condi DPs build assuming you can keep the Horrors alive and a willing to blow 1g on Toxic Crystal per use would be:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQRArd7YjM0Gaqud32cbrxrG4wxRxQMXnjlfhdxghEA-ThSFQB9T9HA8EFImSPlsPw1WYod6f81BKIBnEgGqMILKBJFwiKrA-e

Replacing the Malice with an Earth so between Earth and Geomancy you can gain 11 extra Bleeds.

If you are cheap then Malice replaces the Crystal will cost about 1250 DPs though.

Builds like this are why necros will never be accepted into the meta xD
Currently testing how my horrors you need to out-dps blood. Looks like death magic COULD be a DPS increase on Sabetha, but that’s about it.

spoj.9672:

This is what i suspect is better:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNBLRDbkh2QT1N2cDe3Gb4wxhxQNThY4FkdwHsBxfOAOAA-ThSFQB9T9nBpEEZWQAgTAAxU6pk9DaneBf9AASwBBohKDCAcAsbdjuBjP+4jP+4t7u7u7u7WKgFVWB-e

This is exactly what i used:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNBLRD7khGDNUdD2tJ4djxG4wBLFDm0HIE0Bi7hFxkYUAYAkAA-TBSFAB9r+DAnAAiV+p0+BtrHw3HAgVKBNeBBSBsoyK-e

You dont seem to get much extra poison out of rise + death nova. So probably better to just use CPC. Death Nova is still valuable as it spawns extra Jagged Horrors.

You can only have 2 minions from death nova up at a time (unless alacrity effects the cooldown which I doubt), and those do NOT deal more DPS then even just deathly chill (1000-1400 DPS). Death Magic is trash tier for condition builds.

Here’s the newest iteration of gear, this has a massive boost in DPS from my old build http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRQQJArYnM0AN3gV3AmbCs3gliBbaFMDiBx9wiYSMKAMASAA-TRSFQB9T9nBpEEAnAA3t/Q1M9UQletTPgveAANUZApAWUZF-e

Was experimenting in a pug group tonight, started on vale with me on condi necro and a condi engi, killed red before green and blue were killed. Engi had to go, got another one, barely had red down to 25%. That engi left and I brought in another condi necro. Killed red before either blue or green were dead.

Engineer DPS is based so much on personal skill, where condi necros are consistently high damage.

Starfall.6425:

Another question:
With CRC you inflict self-weakness, with blood is power self-tormet. “Suffer!” transfers one condition. I guess it transfers the torment because it came last and you just deal with the weakness, which doesn’t to much for condis?

Edit: Question 2:
Is soulreaping for a power-build also weaker than blood if you have a second nekro with blook already in the raid?

That’s why deathly swam is part of the rotation, I’ve never had to worry about transfering condis with suffer, i just use it off cooldown.

Yes, The DPS from the current builds mainly comes from the lower cooldowns on the wells and deathly chill, in fact a soul reaping rotation wouldn’t even work as all of your high damage abilities come off at different times. People underestimate how much dps is lost by not using their high damage abilities right when they come off cooldown.

OlliX.1705:

Good point. So whichever works the best probably varies a bit from encounter to encounter.

So.. with the Sigil of Earth being a 60% chance to proc, how realistic is it to get all 5 stacks of bleeding with it?

The equation for determining damage for sigil of earth and other chance on crit proc effects is:

Damage = (Time/(((Critchance * Successrate) * InternalCooldown)+((1-(Critchance*successrate)) * SecPerHit)) * Crichance * Sucessrate *Damageperproc

Divide that by time for DPS

So lets assume you have a 100% crit chance and your seconds per hit is .65 with a 30 second rotation

33719 = (30/(((1*.6)2)+((1-(1.6)).65))1*.6*2735

=

~1123 DPS

It’s using a weighted average to determine the average number of times in between ATTEMPTS to proc the sigil, then you multiply it by the chance at a successful attempt, then by the damage

Molch.2078:

“Power Reaper is very special because it has the highest execute (below 50%) DPS in the game.”

I honestly doubt that. Will your spreadsheed have proof for this?

Yes

Moritz.4056:

Scootabuser.4915:

Moritz.4056:

Any chance i can see your spreadsheets behind the builds?

rickay will release them soon

Sigil of Earth + Vipers > Sigil of Malice + Sinster. The build originally started out with Malice and Sinister but during optimization the Vipers set topped out on DPS.

If you refuse to use anything except Sigil of Malice, the next best set-up is Vipers gear + Berzerker Runes.

Thanks for the answer.
Where do i have to look for them?

Reddit or our forums.

Moritz.4056:

Any chance i can see your spreadsheets behind the builds?

rickay will release them soon

Sigil of Earth + Vipers > Sigil of Malice + Sinster. The build originally started out with Malice and Sinister but during optimization the Vipers set topped out on DPS.

If you refuse to use anything except Sigil of Malice, the next best set-up is Vipers gear + Berzerker Runes.

http://sickestguild.com/forum/m/31644179/viewthread/25151391-spirit-vale-condi-necro

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The strength of the mobs felt good in the last two betas. I would suggest tuning them back to their old stats.

PopeUrban.2578:

Basically, join silverwastes maps that read 60% in LFG, do the sub and main boss meta events, and save all the shovels, keys, and crests you get from the events.

Once you’ve got enough crests to top off your key stack to 100+ keys, take your keys and shovels and look in lfg for a shovel map.

In shovel maps you’ll join a massive zerg of people that visit every possible chest spawn, dig it up, and then the whole zerg loots. be a good person and use your shovels for the zerg if you see it start to slow down (you gain no additional loot by digging up the chest solo)

Once you’re out of keys or get bored, go open all the bags, sell anything of value, then head back to boss farming for more keys/crests

Repeat until you’ve got enough money to afford whatever it is you’re after, or until your eyes bleed from farming and you want to go do something different.

Candy corn farming is way easier and nets almost 3x as much gold

Farming candy corn elementals using maize balm is currently the best way to farm gold, it’s almost twice as effective (30gold/hr) as dungeons and 4x as effective as silver wastes.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3mxr61/35goldhr_farming_highest_goldhr_a_guide_to_candy/

Everytime i login it shoots me to my account page and then when i go back it logs me out. I don’t know what my score is so I cant even search manually.

The Mapout Iniative

Pants are awesome, kitten skirts

Anubarak.3012:

released at 25.10.2014 Oo
did you ever noticed the massive dmg increase with the 23.6 update???

Edit: i searched for Videos but i could not find a thief pov with all buffs, only duo ele that Hit with 12k against bloomhunger (without warrior Banner)

https://youtu.be/8IORw_maIxI?t=1m25s

10,524, that’s about a 20k difference in total damage, so the zerk dps numbers should be about 7% higher.

oxtred.7658:

Even at 2600 armor, icebow hits more than 5k. 8k is on the low end, 12k is average.

https://youtu.be/BDrYUgZu-V8?t=6m52s

Not after the nerfs, also since conjured weapons have a flat damage, they either crit or dont crit, there is no variation in damage. If you look at any video of a thief with full buffs and 25 might using icebow you don’t see any more then 8500 damage vs low armor targets and 7500 damage vs high armor targets.

Anubarak.3012:

This + Flawless Strike (that isnt shown in hero’s panel) = 2.687 crit dmg
With ranger or food it would be even higher. This is just banner of discipline + no Quater

I cant make a video, because I can only play on minimum options on my laptop. If I would start to record I’ll only have 8-10fps but I can make a screenshot soon^^

2.66 mathematically is 266%. I used seaweed salad (the bestfood) for calculations, you no doubt use SnS Soup.

Anubarak.3012:

1. Why does your thief has over 14k HP? Warrior banners,* I believe and also since there are no sinister backslot items you use i think carrion.*
2. Why does your thief only has 2.6 crit dmg Oo. 266% is where max zerk gear, full party buffs, consumables, and traits brings you up to. If you have a thief with higher crit damage post a screenshot of your in-game window.
3. Why does your thief only 170k dmg with *24 icebow hits Oo i would cry and delete my thief when she would ever deal so low dmg. Icebow 4 should hit with 12k at least. I usually hit with around 16k with food. First of all your numbers make no sense. Second of all that’s prob because I calculated vs 2600 armor enemies and your anecdotal memory is remembering a time you totally did more damage then that.

The dmg you calculated is incredible low when i compare it with the dmg I deal / what is shown in my dps Meter overlay. *I’ll assume by the fact you didnt include a picture or a short clip of yourself perform an opening rotation that your again quoting your own memory.

Ahh and 4. Why the heck deals every heartseeker the same amount of dmg? Cause of lead attack it should be reduced after each use.. Lead attacks was simplified to 12% for the zerk thief build, I did it to reduce the complexity of the calculations, I did however change it to 16% for icebow.

It seems to me that you missed a few traits like Ferocious Strikes and revealed training
Ferocious strikes was added into the crit damage total, and revealed training was accounted for.

Edit: Btw what is lotus venom? Do you mean lotus strike? Prob skale venom

http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Thief_-_Dungeon_Venom_Share

Jayden Ennok.3687:

What about zerker gear with VS?

Just wondering, because dmg from skale venom is not consistent, some mobs just sit and don’t move, then you have bleeds from caltrops/ice storm and poison (btw why you assume 10 hits on IB with zerker and 24 with VS?) So how much dps could zerker do with VS traits ? Does the VS calculation account for the condi dmg you provide to the party too?

Skale venom’s moving vs not moving doesn’t change the conclusion that utilizing double venoms is much stronger then zerk in fights lasting longer then 10 seconds (literally all of them except hard core speedrunners). And that not utilizing the biggest advantage of the build makes it horrible.

Bleeds from caltropes and ice storm were calculated accordingly.

I actually have zerk 10 hits, zerk 24 hits, venomshare 10 hits, and venomshare24 hits to compare the difference between normal and huge bosses: spoilers: icebow is super OP.

Zerk with venom share traits do far less damage then sinister VS and zerk trick because one of the main advantages of wearing zerk is you can take the trickery line which gives you leading attacks which drastically increases your dps (10-12%). Likewise running sinister gear makes venomshare super strong.

Yes

Revolutionen.5693:

I tried venomshare after the patch, and while it was great at dealing dmg against world bosses and end-dungeon bosses, it wasnt very good at dealing with trash mobs. One major drawback was the very low dmg against objects (such as the oil above gates in ascalon fractal), since you can’t apply your conditions to them. I changed back to berserker eventually, but I’d say the venoms are more “fun” to play in general.

Trash mobs usually have such little health and die so fast that it doesn’t make a big difference. As for buildings there are 1 or 2 paths you want to avoid, but even with a sinister build you’ll still do enough damage with the icebow4 to crush them.

Awhile ago I did some math on VS vs Zerk and found out that fights lasting longer then 15 seconds Venomshare came out with more damage then Zerk. However this was not taking into account Icebow. So here are the updated numbers if you include Icebow into the rotations.

Zerk: Deadly/Crit/Trick Assassins/agility/Haste Berzerker
VS: Deadly/Crit/Shadow Spider/Skale/Calitropes Sinister

Max Frostbow Hits

Zerk
Seconds to 300k Damage:
5.841 seconds
30 Second Rotation DPS:
22152 DPS

VS
Seconds to 300k Damage:
11.65
Seconds to 300k Damage with Double Venoms:
3.75 (in reality this is prob closer to 5 seconds)
30 Second Rotation DPS:
15498 DPS
30 Second Rotation DPS with Double Venoms:
19493 DPS

10 Frostbow Hits

Zerk
Seconds to 300k Damage:
11.352 seconds
30 Second Rotation DPS:
17713 DPS

VS
Seconds to 300k Damage:
15.3
Seconds to 300k Damage with Double Venom:
6.15
VS 30 second rotation DPS:
13622 DPS
30 Second Rotation DPS with Double Venoms:
17618 DPS

MAAAATH

*Double Venom is when you apply venoms before a fight starts so they come off cooldown right as everyone finishes applying the first set of venoms.
*All unticked conditions have been accounted for.
*All traits/utilities/buffs/haste have been accounted for.

Conclusions:
As long as you can get your double venoms off, Venomshare is unquestionably better then Berzerker. If icebow ever gets nerfed; you won’t even have to do the double venoms in order to beat Berzerker builds.

Note: Some people have said that VS lacks the blind and stealth utility that Zerk thief does, those same people fail to realize how fast it is to swap out weapons and utility skills for trash fights.

the dps loss from using a non-damage utility would negate any damage bonus

also you should never be low on initiative anyways and the fact that your asking this question makes me think you lack understanding of the basic thief rotations.

EazyPanda.6419:

What I meant was the damage numbers between having longer might duration against more condi duration.

Runes of the Aristocracy gives 45% more might duration, and gives 3 stacks of might on a healing skill, while Rune of the afflicted gives 30% bleed duration and 15% poison duration. Most of your damage comes form poison, so essentially you are just getting 15% extra duration on poison against 45% more might, and extra 3 might every 15 seconds (running SoM or 18 sec running withdraw).

Venoms will proc might due to our traits, so we will be stacking some might by default. Having more might will probably be better when we are running solo PvE, as our default power attacks will benefit from it as well.

If your doing venomshare in a solo build, your doing it wrong.

This post is hilarious because: most hard core spvp teams are running 3 thieves right now.

Rai.9625:

Agree focused Venom Share is high DMG, though I would never even consider stacking might myself… not in a group. Blastfinishing a Fire Field results in 25 stacks might easily.

It is not the job of the Thief to stack Might on himself. His job: Blast Finishing a fire field. My opinion though^^

Agreed, it’s a nice bonus but not good enough to be worth focusing on.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Doesn’t ice bow inflict bleed?

Zerk thief icebow 4
Direct Damage: 153,094
Bleed Damage: 12,705

Sinister Thief icebow 4
Direct Damage: 59,663
Bleed Damage: 54,617

On a sinister thief your losing about 33% of the damage, and it applies over a longer duration (less bursty)

Do not read past this point unless your willing to pretend you live in a world where icebows don’t exist.

Hey everyone I just put the finishing touches on the optimal new venomshare condition build for dungeon thieves.

After comparing it to the old D/D S/P Shortbow, I was pleasently surprised that it had more burst and sustained damage then the old build.

I’m calling you all out and requesting you to read the guide, try it out, and rate it honestly.

And yes, Zerk gear will ALWAYS be better on EVERY class because of Icebow.

Updated original post

This is most likely the final iteration of the build unless anyone points out a mistake I can correct.

Anonymouse.4760:

oiseau.6481:

“grandmaster” doesn’t mean anything now, you have to choose between 3 minor, 3 master and 3 grandmaster

as long as the builds are usable, i wont mind it being anywhere.

+1scootabuser

So you don’t mind the fact that cloaked in shadow competes with the strongest SA trait available? Interesting.

I think you underestimate how powerful cloaked in shadows is.

You guys missed the part where there are no more grandmaster, adept, ect.. traits anymore. Some of the most powerful traits are in the first slot now.