Guild Wars 2

SwickHobo.5096:

Dub.1273:

You’re missing a trait (2nd tree, none is chosen there) and also using Ruby Orbs and Sigil of Force is suboptimal. A weapon skill rotation has nothing to do with a build imo, too.
Also i highly doubt that 20/25/0/10/15 is the best way to go unless you really always have 5+ boons on you which will only happen with a guardian/mesmer/ele in your group.

Also an ele using a lightning hammer would kinda laugh about 8k dps, even without many might stacks. I somehow can’t believe that warriors should only be able to pull of 8k dps. Whatever the slave driver may have to do with this.

8k DPS seems like a bit much no matter what class you are. DPS mean Damage per second Since u can only do about 1 action per second. 8k seems like a lot to me, no matter the class.

This is with 25 might, fury, and 25 vulnerability remember.

Konrad.9587:

Scootabuser.4915:

More DPS and an easier rotation then the warrior, but more difficult to survive.

It’s single target and much easier to fail. The boss often turns away in the very last milisecond before your backstab, I mean frontstab now, lands. Also, pulling the boss into a corner or to a wall, favored by most, actually only makes it harder for the thief.

PS. The spreadsheet shows warrior setup.

Download it, its a manipulative spreadsheet that you can use to plug in gear stats traits and most importantly, rotations.

As they continue to add fractal gear they will AT LEAST update the current fractals with new mechanics to make the fights more difficult.

They may or may not have time to add additional fractals.

My PvP Warrior

Rifles suck i know, but it just looks so awesome.

Karolis.4261:

Who told you that reveal is going to be reverted lol ? That fake screen of dev speaking in game chat doesnt count.

Patch previews all say they are reverting it back to 3 seconds in PvE.

Don’t know where you heard that the picture was fake…

Dub.1273:

This can’t be maximum DPS of a warrior.

The 10 second rotation used on the first boss in CoF path 1 is 15,000 DPS. But your burn adrenaline and other things so after that 10 seconds is up, you drop down waaaay below 8000.

This is sustained DPS, not spike.

iNaddict.8021:

I would have to disagree with you there though. I maintain that no matter how big of numbers you see.. a thief backing off to recuperate is a thief doing 0 dps.. i would at least go with cond removal and shadow protection in the SA tree to be able to stay in the fight..

The problem is that no matter how good you are.. without toughness or vit.. when you get hit.. (and you will.. even if its just once) you go SPLAT.. and now a liability for your team because you need to rez or help get rezzed..

I shudder to think how much toughness and vitality you have on your thief to make any sort of difference in your survivability

Without the initiative on stealth, your dps drops DRAMATICALLY as you run out of initiative, lose 10% from first strikes, and have to chain together several auto attacks before you can CnD again. Infusion of shadow is actually one of the MOST important traits in the build.

Full damage builds are possible, but have high skill caps. Source: I rock

iNaddict.8021:

the bosses sneeze.. oops I are dead.

In most content, the greatest defense comes from, your heal, projectile blocks, blind, protection, and most importantly dodges. Not from vitality or toughness.

That being said, you do actually have to be a GOOD player, but that can be said for the warriors ridiculous attack rotation too.

Please keep it down to 1 sentence guys. ALSO this isn’t a forum for discussing what OTHER people say, this is for you to throw out your own 2 cents. Take quoting and commenting on other people’s posts to a private convo.

This is after the next patch that switches the reveal back to 3 seconds. More DPS and an easier rotation then the warrior, but more difficult to survive.

Traits

Gear:
Berzerkers
Ruby Orbs
Sigil of Force
Sigil of Accuracy (Can be higher with 25 stacks of sigil of perception)
Butternut Squash Soup
Superior Sharpening Stone

Max DPS Rotation
CLoak And Dagger
Backstab
Auto Chain
Repeat

Total DPS while behind boss: 8669
With 25 Stacks: 9060

Stop saying warriors out-DPS thieves, it’s not true.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/warrior/Build-The-REAL-maximum-DPS-warrior/first#post1886080
guys, you have to DOWNLOAD the spreadsheet in the link, the default builds on that thing are NOT what I used, the default builds on the spreadsheets use omnomberry bars and the wrong traits with bad rotations and are missing sigils.
Also, if you want to add a dodge into the rotation, you can do it yourself, a dodge takes .75 seconds and you can dodge every 10 seconds SO
CnD
Backstab
Auto
CnD
Backstab
Auto
Dodge
THAT BEING SAID, why. This is what’s called theoretical DPS. It is not an accurate in game measurement, rather it is a tool for understanding how different classes compare. For example, the theoretical DPS of ranged weapons are usually around 3-4k DPS, 10-50% less damage then melee. AN did this on purpose for the exact reason that sometimes melee people have to back out and BLAH BLAH BLAH
Applied DPS is the in game accurate one, but to do that, you need a DPS counter and ALOT of trials. And I mean ALOT of trials, and it’s going to change per player. So from a scientific perspective applied DPS isn’t as useful when looking at things like class balance, or best builds.
DEEP BREATH
ok im done

Build

Gear:
Berzerkers
Ruby Orbs
Sigil of Force
Sigil of Accuracy (Can be higher with 25 stacks of sigil of perception)
Butternut Squash Soup
Superior Sharpening Stone

Max DPS Rotation

Greatsword Swing (Just the first hit, it has the highest DPS of the chain)
Hundred Blades
Whirlwind Attack
5 Weapon Swap
Cyclone Axe
Crushing Blow
Tremor
Axe #1 (The full chain)
5 Weapon Swap
Greatsword Swing
Hundred Blades
Whirlwind Attack
5 Weapon Swap
Cyclone Axe
Axe #1
Chop
Wait 0.1 seconds
5 Weapon Swap
Greatsword Swing
Hundred Blades
Whirlwind Attack
5 Weapon Swap
Cyclone Axe
Crushing Blow
Axe #1
5 Weapon Swap
Greatsword Swing
Hundred Blades
Whirlwind Attack
5 Weapon Swap
Cyclone Axe
Tremor
Axe #1
Repeat

Total DPS with 5 boons: 8382
With 25 Stacks: 8757

The Godly Spreadsheet

In one sentence (no run-ons) explain what you think is the biggest problem with Guild Wars 2 right now.

Mine
This game spoils people with easy content; “I’m a scrub, and I don’t have any intention of trying to get better, leave me alone,” shouldn’t be what I hear from 90% of the game’s population.

Cymatoperior.5942:

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Cymatoperior.5942:

Condition damage such as burning and bleeding means you can do damage while you are dodging or running away. So in terms of actual dps you can actually do more than a zerk build where you hit a few times and run/dodge most of the time or stay dead.

Not really, no.
All that time you’re spending dodging is time you aren’t applying conditions. Your immediate dps may not take much of a hit, but your long-term dps is still dropping just as badly as a direct damage build will.

I play an earth staff elementalist. I press skill 2 twice and run far away. Never failed any fotm before. Max 1.5 hours.

1.5 hours… Not sure if really sarcastic troll, or really terrible scrub.

AzureDragon.1482:

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Also remember that a condition build’s greatest enemy is an inanimate object.

This, so much. Lol.

A couple of my guildies have rolled power focused Warriors, so just for variety I decided to take a different approach with mine and build to maximize bleeds. I absolutely love it so far (almost level 60), but completing heart quests that involve destroying objects takes so long!! XD

I decided to use some Power focused trinkets just to give me that extra “umph” I need to make breaking objects bearable.

Anything below level 80 is scaled different, the DPS difference between a berzerker at level 60 and a rampager at level 60 is different.

So your experience isn’t a good representation, also leveling experiences are played much differently then dungeon content.

Seren.6850:

You saying I can dodge boulders? Im saying when your ready you wont need to.

Server side hit boxes are so bad that I walk straight through boulders in cof, I have to look at the boulders, calculate my latency, virtually imagine several invisible hitboxes and walk through Unscathed.

That said I do run zerker gear in dungeons (knights in wvw), but I don’t ever want to hear an American call me a bad player, when I’m doing the exactly as well as you are but with 10 times more difficulty due to latency.

Bit of credit to those of us who arent in America, protecting your keeps while you sleep and playing the game at it’s highest difficulty.

this is getting into a race war up in here :O oh goodie

proxy.7963:

Sub-par player here.

I don’t think anyone has ever had big enough shoulders to give a shrug expansive enough to represent my reaction towards anyone upset about me not having Berserker gear.

I don’t think I’d particularly enjoy playing with anyone who would react like that anyway, so if anything it’s like an easy way to tell if I’m likely to be friends with you.

Right cause, if you have 4 strong players, it’s easy to carry the fifth.

But if there were 3 people like you in a group, you wouldn’t be able to get past the dungeon with a repair build under 1g.

Yes, arena net hate their own forums, they only made them so they could corral all the complainers to an isolated spot.

This game, is the only game, I have ever played, where such a large chunk of the players just say.

“I’m a scrub, and I don’t have any intention of trying to get better, leave me alone.”

Duke Blackrose.4981:

Casualist.1052:

Well if you want to run some of the most competitive PVE highways and endgame turnpikes, you’re going to have to face the fact that currently, full speeder’s set lends more to the group with a skilled driver.

Only because groups – and, unfortunately a lot of game mechanics – put too much emphasis on damage as the standard for contribution. Boons, healing, etc. don’t receive enough credit in the loot system, boss design, and player mindsets. I’d still prefer to have a well played P/V/T Ele over a Berserker Warrior in my dungeon group any day of the week.

A berzerker guardian provies almost as much support as one with +healing, same with the ele.

It’s not to say that you can’t have support utilities, or even support traits.

But I can’t think of a reason you would ever wan’t healing.

Auesis.7301:

Not even close. There is no reason to wear anything OTHER than Berserker or equivalent condition sets. Almost all survival in high-end content comes from dodging, blinds, projectile absorption/reflection, blocks and other methods not related in any way to your natural defences. There is not enough risk to warrant giving yourself a pointless safety net.

This is the best I have ever heard this worded EVER.

Rapid, Carrion, Rampager

They all just do terrible damage compared to berzerker. Why is this? Why would anyone ever want to play a condition build in PvE when every class has an infinity more powerful in every single way berzerker build?

I mean, even condition necros do awful damage compared do a berzerker necro build.

Is it just that rampager’s is terrible (mainstat percision wtf) and rapid and carrion both only have 2 offensive stats?

Is it that condition duration has a cap at 100% where crit damage is infinite?

Who knows, all I know is that condition builds are bad, and people should feel bad about them.

Source

Your using a Fing shortbow, use S/P and pistolwhip and you’ll do the same thing.

Since when do ranged weapons do more then 1/3 of what you can do with a melee weapon?

Stealth -> Shadow Shot -> Spam Backstab

Enjoy your free backstab teleports

Puandro.3245:

You guys seem to be all over the place, you are welcome to download my spreadsheet and look at the cast time and damage modifiers if you want.

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B3A3Op-Hj3dOUkJRU0xvcng5ZWc/edit

Just switch to the ranger tab.

alot of them are copy pasted off that wiki and are wrong :<
also that is one giant clusterkitten of spreadsheet

I’ve got a 1.2 cast time for maul, and a 2.5 cast time for auto attack chain.

Pet swapping Quickness is 2/16 seconds, the Utility is 5/60. It Increases your attack speed by 1.5. So you get .3125quicknesseffectivnesspersecond. Which doesn’t mean much.

But, if you take 1-.3125, you get .6875, which you then multiply to the cast times, to get the numbers you see on my spreadsheet.

So, lets just say your JUST auto attacking for a second.

Every auto attack takes 2.5 seconds. Quickness is active 20.8% of the time. Quickness increases attack speed by a factor of 1.5 (150%). So multiply 20.8% * 150% and you get 31.25%.

32.25% * 2.5 Seconds = 1.71875 seconds.

EDIT: Maybe your right about scepter, I havn’t tested it like I said, Secepter being mostly a single target, and mace being cleave might effect that, also mace has a significant amount of healing and support. So it would be unorthodox but not unheard of.

Ursan.7846:

Scootabuser.4915:

Yes, the ability cast times are accurate, and the damage per swings are accurate.

Not what I mean. Did you actually test this?

You can theorycraft all you want, but until you actually verify that your models are accurate, no one is going to take your theories seriously.

Just for example, look at your cast times for Maul and GS Auto.

0.825s for Maul, 1.71875s for an Auto chain.

It takes about ~15s to do 5 auto-attack chains and 2 mauls. (Maul -> 111 111 111 -> Maul -> 111 111)

Yet using your numbers, it should only take 10.2 seconds.

That’s a huge discrepancy between numbers you report and numbers in the real world. Time it yourself, because I find it impossible to reproduce the numbers in your spreadsheet.

The cast times have been modified by quickness. You find the average effectiveness of quickness per second, and apply it to all the cast-times.

6% Pre-Patch
13% Post Patch

There we go, these numbers are MUCH more consistent.

See working together is totally the way to go.

If you Include pets:

4% Pre Patch
7% Post Patch

Ursan.7846:

Scootabuser.4915:

Yes, the ability cast times are accurate, and the damage per swings are accurate.

Not what I mean. Did you actually test this?

You can theorycraft all you want, but until you actually verify that your models are accurate, no one is going to take your theories seriously.

All of the cast times are based on fraps/sonyvegas accurate to +-.02 seconds
All of the damage is based on the same formulas the game uses for damage.
Yes, the models are verified if you whack a 2600 golem with your GS, and dont crit, the total damage ~equal the number under damage. Crit chance and traits and all those things are just math.

If your asking If I did “golem” or “veteran giant” tests. No, those are the tests you did.

My spreadsheets are a mix of mathematically derived data, and practical in game data.

Ursan.7846:

Scootabuser.4915:

Here ya go, I took the pet DPS out of the pet equations i originally had, and just threw them into the activated ability to show what DPS they do to compare JUST the weapons.

Pre patch I’m getting 59% higher DPS with the GS then the shortbow, all bleeds traits kitten taken into account.

Uh.

Did you even bother doing actual tests and verifying that your models are accurate? In all my experiences doing these tests 60% higher damage on GS than the SB sounds highly inaccurate.

Yes, the ability cast times are accurate, and the damage per swings are accurate.

ONE LAST THING

The SB is extremely forgiving on that flanking bleed, its like a 315degree thing. Wish backstab was like this :<

And if youd like me to email these spreadsheets so you can play around with them I can

Here ya go, pet bleeds i added into the DPS for the ability.

Pre patch I’m getting 59% higher DPS with the GS then the shortbow, all bleeds traits kitten taken into account.

Areana net did this on purpose, and you’ll see when i finish guardian mace. There are no exceptions to this rule, even a dagger necro out-DPS a specter/staff condition necro. And I have proven this, for Thief, Hunter, Warrior, and Engineer (although they don’t have any melee weapons except toolkit which does out DPS grenades if you DONT count vulnerability, which is stupid of course you count vuln, so i guess engineer grenades would be the one exception so far.)

Mesmers necros and guardians soon to come I promise <3

Gonna do guardian Mace vs guardian scepter after hunter shortbow/GS, been meaning to do in depth stuff on the guardian, will let you know when im finished

Ursan.7846:

Scootabuser.4915:

To be fair, greatsword always did at least 30% more then ranged weapons

That’s false. Using the numbers here, at a damage multiplier of 3.04 (Berserker armor, Exotic Berserker Trinkets, Ruby Orbs on Trinkets) the GS will only do 5% more damage than the SB, counting the bleed. And this is after the Maul buff. You can go ahead and calculate this yourself. The GS in no way does that much more damage than the SB.

I’m not sure where you’re pulling this 30% stuff from.

maul was barely buffed, are you saying that the buff increased the builds DPS by 25%?

And that’s straight out of the words of the devs, ALL ranged weapons carry FAR less DPS due to the inherit defense granted by ranged weapons, rangers being no exception despite popular opinion

just for kittens and giggles though, when i get back tonight I’ll run all the numbers pre and post patch

Ursan.7846:

KensaiZen.3740:

Too many egg heads in the Ranger community. Does knowing any of this actually help you in the field?

It’s good to know. Its better to Do.

Does reading this thread magically make you better? No, I imagine it doesn’t.

Is this some kind of definitive conclusion about the effectiveness of these weapons? No, it’s not.

However, it’s still interesting to see that after the recent GS buffs, GS does very competitive damage compared to Ranger’s ranged options. It’s something nice to know.

To be fair, greatsword always did at least 30% more then ranged weapons, ALL ranged weapons do 25-50% less damage then the classes melee counterpart, this is true across all classes.

Yeah your right, sorry I don’t take the gw2 forums seriously at ALL, i don’t even care about what I say or type. I’m giving you a bad first impression.

I do spreadsheets on gw2 guru thats where I post all my real work.

http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/82421-theorycrafting-rangers-out-dps-warriors/

Ursan.7846:

Scootabuser.4915:

iAnd the reason why it’s misguided, is because it’s a golem test. If you look at the equation, Damage/Time, (damage you deal to the golem / the time it takes to kill it)

you see that its actually exponential, as you increase your damage, the time also decreases. Because of this, if you compare a build that kills in 20 seconds, and a build that kills in 40 seconds, the DPS of the 20 second build wont be x2, but x4 of the other build.

No, you’re completely wrong. DPS is calculated by Damage Done/Time. Damage Done is a constant in this case since the target is the same. So if Build A kills Target X in 20 seconds and Build B kills Target X in 40 seconds, Build A does x2 the DPS compared to Build B.

I suggest you review what you just said.

Serraphin Storm.2369:

While I understand testing was done in this matter to simplifie things. Correct me if i’m wrong but arent damage modifiers the thing that makes build work better and those dealing with direct damage better than those for condition. Also things like attack of oppertunity from signet of the hunt when traited; way better on swoop and maul then anything on the short bow.

Yes. The thing to note is that damage modifiers also affect Crossfire’s direct damage too, and Crossfire’s direct damage is quite significant due to its fast rate of fire. This is why I calculated the break-even point.

And yes, things like Moment of Clarity will give an advantage to GS.

I worded it poorly, my point is that the golem test, favors burst builds, because the duration of the test is limited to how fast it takes to kill it, the faster you do more damage, the less time it takes to kill the golem. I can pop thieves guild (180sec cooldown) and do WAY more dps then a warrior, but it gives an inaccurate number since the trial is less then 180secs long.

Zenith.7301:

…..huh? Warriors have low dps? That’s news considering mainhand axe warrior has by far the highest sustained damage in game and can still bring utility to a group and doesn’t lose burst capacity.

I don’t know why people keep obsessing over GS warriors when even if they nerfed 100b, mainhand axe warriors would still reign supreme in PvE.

The problem with warriors is that their autoattack damage is outrageously higher than other classes, and mainhand axe attacks pretty fast to top it off.

Warriors Axe is easy to use, so APPLIED DPS is usually higher in groups, leading people the false notion that warriors have higher dps, when in reality, it’s just that MORE warriors have dps.

Also warriors are THE offensive buff class, fury and might to the entire party is AMAZING, with the party buffs, the warrior does more damage then another class without the buffs, but if you have 1 warrior and 1 thief, and the warrior is buffing the thief, the thief will out-dps the warrior.

if your interested in theorycrafting ursan i’ve been looking for a partner that can help since it’s quite time consuming

And the reason why it’s misguided, is because it’s a golem test. If you look at the equation, Damage/Time, (damage you deal to the golem / the time it takes to kill it)

you see that its actually exponential, as you increase your damage, the time also decreases. Because of this, if you compare a build that kills in 20 seconds, and a build that kills in 40 seconds, the DPS of the 20 second build wont be x2, but x4 of the other build.

It’s why warriors, with their 15kDPS in 10 seconds burst, were accredited to having high dps, even though they have one of the lowest among classes.

your DPS tests are misguided, it looks like you didn’t do enough of them and take an average, the numbers are off quite a bit.

Hey we currently live on anvil rock and are looking to recruit a FEW active players to allow us more flexibility with guild missions.

We do fractals dungeons wvw and spvp. We have commander tags and all that other crap you have to buy.

18+, Must have at least 1 level 80

Also we do have a decent gender ratio, a bit on the estrogenny side but, meh.

Heres a cheeky video I made for this post

Lol, after playing eve online, all these guilds pretending to be hard core… it’s just lulz, they take it so seriously in a game that doesn’t even take them seriously xD

jewishjoyride.4693:

I really like your organized group build. I too run sword and warhorn though I pair it with a longbow.

I’ve found that since the quickness nerf, shortbow dmg is a little boring. Shortbow also has no skills that will actually increase your dps during a fight against something like the searing effigy or subject alpha.

With reduced cooldown of bow skills and 20 points in marksmanship I can keep 10 stacks of vulnerability on a target almost 100% of the time, thanks to hunters shot. That’s a 10% dmg increase for me, my pet and my party.

Carnivorous appetite is wicked huh? I can’t believe how much easier it is to keep felines alive with this trait.

Your spreadsheet will take me a few reads to decipher.

I can email it to you if you’d like

Sebrent.3625:

Scootabuser.4915:

This is why people don’t like hunters, they all take kitten shortbow greatsword tank builds and contribute nothing.

Generic statement. Overgeneralization. Negative nancy-ism. Overall, non-helpful and pointless to have even clicked the “reply” button.

The difference between this build and a full berserker is crit chance and crit damage. Instead of those, this becomes quite tanky. When a build is able to cripple, entangle, stun, and bleed you while outputting reliable sustained damage, it is not useless.

Additionally, perhaps you should look at the various other builds running around.

You should also consider reading more than you write. Much more.

The build can cripple entangle stun and bleed, with or without the “compensation for lack of skill” gear.

This is why people don’t like hunters, they all take kitten shortbow greatsword tank builds and contribute nothing.

Vlerden.4182:

well i was condition nades multi kit b4 the patch… and ive been doing a hgh-Esq build since and i dont like it…. not that fun… i like grenades and this seemed like a good build to try…. im rocking rabid gear …. and i was starting to grab soldier back, rampager amulet and trinks, and rabid rings…. i didnnt even realize turret had removal on overcharge… what if i added elixir c to healing turret?

If it keeps you alive better, go for it.

Vlerden.4182:

This build this pretty fun…. could it be easily modified to rabid armor/rampage/soldier gear? and how often does the turret cleanse proc for ya? my biggest issue is condition removal

Rampager I wouldn’t do, because you have less DPS (even against heavily armored bosses kitten condition damage kitten .

Rabid still does ~5000 DPS and you get some extra toughness.

You wouldn’t want to go soldiers because it has no crit chance, a lot of your vuln and bonus DPS from bleeds is based on crit.

And the heal turret is optional, I think I just put that there for a placeholder because it has some decent party support. Engineers don’t have the best condition removals, so you would either have to drop Elixer S or flame turret, or work out some party composition with a necro or guardian.

Spiuk.8421:

Adamantium.3682:

Scootabuser.4915:

The big problem is that, although engis have a great vuln build that is one of the most desired party slots in high-end PvE, if you have 2 engis in the party, the engi doesn’t have any way of bringing competitive DPS, offensive buffs, or defensive buffs to the table.

This perpetuates the negative stereotypes of Engineers. This suggests that the only viable build is a Grenadier and that no other build can bring anything the Grenadier can’t. That’s silly.

No it’s no, it doesn’t matter if you like it or not, grenades are our only viable PvE build for high lvl fractals and speed-runs.

Viable and “The Best” are two very different, things, especially in a game that sets the bar SO LOW.

The purpose of this post wasn’t even to say that this was “the best” build. It was just to show that, engineers have at least 1 build, that are on par with other classes, giving you a reason to bring them. Maybe one day I’ll run the DPS for a bomb/Rifle build and it will pull off 7000 DPS :O who knows.

Adamantium.3682:

My issue with it is that it looks like you added up all the skills for DPS, even though you can’t use them all at once or even the instant each one is available. This is what a rotation is for. Also you do not take into account flight time, and you’re assuming all 3 grenades are hitting every time. Any grenadier can tell you this is not realistic.

I never understood using spreadsheet work to figure out DPS. It’s usually not something you can calculate easily, it’s something you go and test. I don’t mean to devalue anything you’ve done and I am not even saying I could do better, maybe I just don’t fully understand what you’ve done here.

You have told us that you calculated it using the damage formula, but nothing further than that so it leaves me with a lot more questions than answers. What rotation were you using? Against what armor level is this? What does “4” mean for cooldown of rocket turret and how on earth is it contributing 200 DPS by itself?

Flight time, is not applicable, at most, you lose 1-2 seconds before you start applying damage every 1 second. (you arn’t limited to 3 grenades in the air at once, just 1 throw every 3 seconds). So if the fight was say, 10 seconds long (CoF P1) it might be a problem (10% dps loss)… BUT the longer the flight drags on, the less it effects the numbers (1% dps loss at 100 seconds ect…) It’s not like flight time is decreasing the number of grenades you throw per second, it just means that your FIRST grenades take a second longer to land, the second set of grenades will hit 1 second after the first set and ect… ect…

The purpose again, is not to say “this class does this much damage” its about the journey, not the destination. S/W hunters do 7000 DPS on paper, Warriors only do 5000, so why is the general consensus that rangers are broken? Well rangers have to keep the pet alive and have to deal with being immobilized every half second. So you can assume that, buffing a damage coefficient on the ranger, isn’t going to fix the underlying problem of the classs. But were off topic back to engineer.

Rocket turret shoots 1 shot every 4 seconds, for the damage shown, Damage/Cast Time = DPS since its a separate entity, note that with the 30% condition duration (which the turret does get) it does provide 100% uptime on burning, which is why I have it listed. 500 DPS for 1 utility slot is pretty strong, but utilities are flexible, and you don’t always have to take the extra 500 DPS if something else would be more useful for a particular fight.

Adamantium.3682:

Scootabuser.4915:

The big problem is that, although engis have a great vuln build that is one of the most desired party slots in high-end PvE, if you have 2 engis in the party, the engi doesn’t have any way of bringing competitive DPS, offensive buffs, or defensive buffs to the table.

This perpetuates the negative stereotypes of Engineers. This suggests that the only viable build is a Grenadier and that no other build can bring anything the Grenadier can’t. That’s silly.

Prove me wrong, you don’t have to SHOW me, just TELL me a build that does 6000 dps (without vuln) and I will do the numbers for you.

It sure as hell isn’t a condition build, because nade engineer can get 25 bleed, burning, and poison, 100% up time, and it still doesn’t hit 6000 DPS with rampagers, carrion, or rabid.

I’m not saying hitting every single grenade is realistic, and I’m not saying engineers do more damage then warriors. We have 1 engineer, and ONLY 1 engineer, in the party, because the numbers you see above only account for the vulnerability on the engineers OWN attack. Realistically the engineer does MUCH more damage, because of the bonus all 4 other party members get from the vuln.

That being said it only takes 3 warriors to generate the same amount of vuln. Warriors have low BASE DPS though, so 1 engineers 1 warrior and 1 hunter > 3 Warriors.

The big problem is that, although engis have a great vuln build that is one of the most desired party slots in high-end PvE, if you have 2 engis in the party, the engi doesn’t have any way of bringing competitive DPS, offensive buffs, or defensive buffs to the table.

These numbers are to be taken with a merit of what they entail, standing still, dodging once every 20 seconds, not dying, hitting every grenade. Yes, it is unrealistic, but because I use the SAME “unrealistic” notions across each of my builds, you can get an idea of how the classes compare to each other, and then say, well even though hunter sword does a lot of DPS, it’s requirements are 10x harder then the warriors, so something needs to be done.