Guild Wars 2

weapon swap sigils so you can swap back to d/d

Your opponent being a baddie is more important then personal skill. This is one of those cheesy builds that’s super strong and easy to play, but super easy for anyone with a brain to counter.

D/D assassination thieves roaming around in WvW is VERY common and players learn how to deal with them.

Sencey.2314:

Could you tell me your dps rotation on mobs with larger hp pool/bosses? Thanks

D/D:
-Cloak and Dagger
-Backstab (Back)
-Dagger #1
-Cloak and Dagger
-Backstab (Back)
-Dagger #1
-Double Strike
-Wild Strike

D/D: (Infusion of Shadow)
-Cloak and Dagger
-Backstab (Back)
-Dagger #1

S/P:
-Pistol Whip (Sword/Pistol)
-Slice
-Pistol Whip (Sword/Pistol)
-Sword #1

S/D:
-Flanking Strike (Sword/Dagger) (First)
-Slice
-Slash
-Larcenous Strike (Sword/Dagger) (Second)
-Slice
-Slash

SB:
-Cluster Bomb
-Trick Shot
-Cluster Bomb
-Trick Shot
-Trick Shot

D/P (Infusion of shadow):
-Black Powder
-Heartseeker (50%-100%)
-Backstab (Back)
-Dagger #1
-Double Strike
-Wild Strike

P/P and P/D are both pretty terrible so ~~~~~

ele seems to work fine for me, i took the rotation from your rotation video and it seemed to plug in.

I’m working on finishing up updating the spreadsheet, I’ve done:
-Ferocity Conversion
-Rune Update
-Celestial Buff
-Berzerker, Assassin, and Sinister Ascended Gear
-Trait Updates
-Added Revealed Training to Thief Traits

I was gone for 2 years though so I’ve been hunting through change logs for relevant changes and updates.

Critical Damage has not been updated, you have to convert the ferocity to the correct % for critial damage.

It won’t effect how to find optimal rotations but will give inflated DPS

xxx.9514:

Hi,

That quote is written by me. I authored this guide:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/13ovddAZbEBkFVPyGGBLztFAyLGgwHZjFPYc4uYXder4/edit#gid=0 (slightly outdated you just need to fix the crit damage, but that doesnt effect what I was testing so meh)

How did you calculate your times?

There’s a very comprehensive spreadsheet that has all the cast times included, so first I used those. https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B3A3Op-Hj3dOUkJRU0xvcng5ZWc/edit

Now it was saying wild strike was WAAAY better then duel strike, so I did some in-game tests to make sure there was no aftercast delay. So I used fraps and measured the time it took to do rotations. The numbers were almost exactly the same as the spreadsheet.

So for D/D
All the good guides out there say that “each sequential skill of the auto-attack is weaker than it’s previous skills.”

However taking a look at the cast times and damage: http://puu.sh/gLUCF/a773a80903.png

I noticed that for the cast time listed, wild strike has the best dps in the rotation. I took to the target dummies and tested for weird aftercast delays using CnD, dancing daggers and steal skills. I couldn’t find any different in after-cast delays.
I found that DS-DD took .867seconds, DS-WS-DD took 1.367, meaning WS has a cast time of .5 (which is very close to the listed cast time of .55)

Where is this discrepancy coming from? Are the guides and public opinion wrong? Is the spreadsheet wrong?

kokiman.2364:

Gyler.8150:

kokiman.2364:

Scoundrel.2139:

Next thing you know, as soon as you/someone else enters a group it will be mandatory to yell: “Hey all. Screenshot Taken” to let them know if kicked you’ll send it to Support asking a non-existent PUG Hammer to rend and smash from on high…

How high are the chances that A.Net actually bans them though?

None percent. Nill, nada, zero. Good day sir, WvW improvements are important.

That makes my day actually even worse, because getting kicked from a dungeon group right at the end ruined some evenings for me.

It’s not even agaisnt the rules for them to do this so, why would they get banned?

> Pugging level 50 fractals
> Everything’s mostly going smooth, party wipes twice but we keep chugging along
> Offer to pull the levers on the dredge fractal
> "No let XXXXXX do it, im on vent with them
> ohkitten (check guild tags, same guild)
> Continue as normal, but with shifty eyes >.>
> Final boss, molten alliance, easy-sauce
> clear the champ
> everyone readies up
> pop back in Lionsarch
> rip
> start selling and salvaging junk in inventory (thnx Anet)
> get a reinvite to group
> the 2 other people in group managed to kick the 2 guildies before they kicked them!
> grab 2 more pugs and totally destroy the final boss
> maybe karma isn’t such a useless currancy

Since most puggs wont have the organization to take full advantage of a Meta-Thief. What do you guys think of going 6/2/6/0/0 with full zerk gear and venoms out the wazoo.

I’ve tried being super elitist with a meta-thief build but without any might or fury I don’t do much damage, and I keep having to quit groups and I never finish any fractals.

Jerus.4350:

I’m sure there are many many situations they haven’t considered.

With all the major propositions they have namely defiance and stability changes it sure would be nice if they would be a bit more open and discuss the idea and ask for input. You know, maybe there’s something they overlooked and WE COULD HELP THEM or something…

But, I guess it’s company policy to be heard headed and ignore your community assuming the devs are far more knowledgeable in every aspect than the people who play this game passionately.

You do realize this entire expansion is super exaggerated to bring back players and get new players, if they revealed the content for the community to give feedback, people would realize how mediocre its going to be and the hype would be gone.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

It really depends on what your build is and how you play the Thief.

But you have to ask yourself — is the 5% boost from Flanking Strike worth missing a full rotation of CnD->BS?

I know my answer to that. What is yours?

just did some spreadsheet work, the dps loss from doing 2 auto attacks is minimal.
Single AA chain with flanking gets: 11590 dps
Double AA chain with flanking gets: 10534 dps
Single AA chain with infusion of shadow gets: 11296

AA CND BS signet AA CND BS signet AA CND BS steal AA CND BS AA AA CND BS
So you can assume you can get 4 rotations off before you have to double AA with flanking.
http://puu.sh/g9MEu/be079fcd0e.png putting those numbers side by side, infusion of shadow starts to out DPS flanking strikes 6 rotations in or roughly about 20 seconds.

I’m having a really hard time staying above 6 ini while using d/d on bosses. Even with Signet use giving me some iniative I can only do 3 rotations before I start having to do 2 Autoattack rotations in between CnD/BS.

Guys, we all know were going to be getting either a mace or axe with really lame abilities.

Zelyhn Lekovitch.2867:

This is Puandro’s spreadsheet isn’kitten

that name sounds familiar, it was almost 2 years ago

Fairytayl.1035:

OK i have to admit this is a pretty nice spreadsheet to start working with. Need to check for mistakes first then I’ll fiddle with it!

IKR its pretty amazing

as much fun as trying to get multiple people to fix it would be, someone just needs to update it to the current patch date and re-release it. My knowledge is pretty limited to thief so

updated the topic now that I Found the spreadsheet

Tree.3916:

We have just what you are looking for http://www.dtguilds.com/forum/m/6563292/viewforum/4280860

That link contains our individual class profession theory crafting forums and common threads that have the spreadsheets you are looking for.

I must be very much blind then cause I can’t find a thief one.

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B3A3Op-Hj3dOUkJRU0xvcng5ZWc/edit

Finally found the old spreadsheet a friend made 2 years ago. It need some TLC for the updates but its functionality is amazing.

It’s literally just a giant farming place, like AN decided to take everything from the world they worked so hard to make, and put it into one small circle map.

If they knew that’s all it would take to make players happy, they prob wouldn’t have wasted so much money making a game.

still plenty of people trying to farm it on gw2lfg

kishter.9578:

Actualy is a good guide. I like it

Thank You <3

Anvil rock Server

Right Now

Follow the Blue Dorito!

We already have stigmas that players make from research, spreadsheets, and experiance.

I know for a fact that many of them are just WRONG.

Why not add a Total Damage meter in game? The consequences of not having one have been worse, and classes have been downright excluded from content.

I know it will never happen though, because people don’t know the difference between Total Damage and DPS :/

VanityValentine.6203:

Ethics.4519:

Iures.2894:

VanityValentine.6203:

Nah, I mean a mixed group of warriors/mes/thieves does the run faster. But most to all warriors here bubt that. AND UNLIKE them, I dont need a video to believes that 2thieves/2warrior/1mesmer is faster than 1mes/4warriors…Its just common sense.
Espada’s Video sure is way faster(with mixed group).

I think I may’ve just misinterpreted your last post, then, sorry. :p

Espada’s Video definitely is slower. And now they are saying stuff like “well the warrior was late” or “I didn’t blink” or “The thief used his elite” So what! All that kitten lead to a slower run! Which is the point.

“I believe what I believe and all evidence that points else where is blasphemy!”

LOl calm down, records are ment to b broken…dont 4get about that..and as mentioned on youtube….“Slow Run”to begin with.
Im sure they’ll update a vid when they get a chance to.
Soo yeah chill out no need to rage

I saw both vid ….gj on both teams and DPS-wise I calculated both their Slaver/ Effigy dmg
and Espada does more dmg than Strife by tens of thousands more.

it’s like you guys aren’t pretending you don’t love the compaction.

P/P doesn’t do good damage.

Get over it.

Anyone who says knights is wrong. Thieves have terrible base health, which makes toughness pretty worthless. Also, any gear that doesn’t have power as a main stat, your going to see a SERIOUS drop in dps, to the point where you might as well be playing a support.

The staple is mostly berzerkers gear, and mix in whatever valk gear you think you need to make up for lack of skill.

if your running 0/30/20/20/0, instead of the real 30/30/0/0/10 build, and still have problems surviving…

Then you need to work on your playstyle.

maybe 425 is the maximum amount of damage it can do.

“Arenanet liked our event so much they allowed us access to a custom arena to host another events.”

Lol and then their head disappeared so far up their own kitten it was never seen again.

Use ambush trap, theives guild, calitropes, and shadow refuge

shadow refuge into the camp, drop calitropes on the biggest group, pop thievesguild and ambush trap

focus down as many as you can while theives are tanking

this works for DD and condition

The cast times arn’t wrong guys, the TOOLTIPS are wrong.

Leeching Venoms trait: Increased the damage scale from power by 33%. Increased range from 325-400 to 325-425.

325-425? All the venoms have the same share range…

Just my 2 cents.

While farming CoF path 1, there are only 2 times DPS matters. First boss, Last Boss, and arguably the Acolytes.

The difference between running a “high DPS group” and a “max DPS group” come out to a few SECONDS.

The majority of the time you shave off speed runs comes from the mini-games and glitches.

I’m pretty sure 4 Theives 1 Warrior will beat out anything with a skilled enough group to not have to rely on a Mesmer (since quickness now lasts long enough for you to kill bosses.)

All kitten-waving aside, I’ve seen a massive decrease in class discrimination, which was the main point in the guide and arguments I threw out there on my guide thread.

Brace yourself for the copy-pasta 400+ members guilds.

Secret Brigade is looking for dedicated fractal and dungeon runners with experience. We are an extremely small guild with all active members.

Based in Anvil Rock (but you don’t need to be, guesting ftw)
No Rep Requirements
Friendly experienced guild members with access to all the best builds.
Guild Missions
Must have a level 80 with a dungeon appropriate exotic set.

We WvW, sPvP, and do other things casually on the fly, dungeons and fractals are the thing we take seriously though.

Mail me in-game if your interested in being interviewed.

Phira.3970:

Sorry but any build utilizing GS isn’t the highest DPS build. Has to do with bugged sigils and the fact that GS is 1handed. (0:23 sec)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AoouSccStME

The main role warrior would have is in these videos..:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLQGbKyIhlE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCdnhkdHXYg

They are simply support DPS with banners and empower ally giving might stacks and vuln stacks.

Might and vuln stacks increase overall party DPS quite significantly, its better to have them even if it means 1 person only does a fraction of their personal damage they would if they went full personal DPS.

Phira.3970:

Sorry but any build utilizing GS isn’t the highest DPS build. Has to do with bugged sigils and the fact that GS is 1handed. (0:23 sec)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AoouSccStME

The main role warrior would have is in these videos..:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLQGbKyIhlE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCdnhkdHXYg

They are simply support DPS with banners and empower ally giving might stacks and vuln stacks.

Might and vuln stacks increase overall party DPS quite significantly, its better to have them even if it means 1 person only does a fraction of their personal damage they would if they went full personal DPS.

Puandro.3245:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Puandro.3245:

Sir Vicent apparently figured it out :P.

lol, I used to help design one in my previous life in Azeroth before my reincarnation in Tyria.

I finished the Mesmer one (well 95% finished) last night. I will start on the engi one pretty soon most likely.

you are one sexy man

Klabbo.6927:

The dagger auto attack chain takes almost exactly 3 seconds so before the nerf the usual rotation was cnd>backstab>auto attack chain>cnd. With infusion of shadows you could keep this up indefinitely. There was negligible downtime between the attacks so the 4s nerf really killed the flow of the build.

The 30th can’t come soon enough

30/30/10/0/0 traits too

It’s ok, maybe better then truffle steak, but it isn’t anywhere near as good as http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bowl_of_Butternut_Squash_Soup

Brando.1374:

http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/thief/?7.0|8.1g.h2.8.1g.h1|5.1g.h8|1g.a7.1g.a7.1g.a7.1g.a7.1g.a7.1g.a7|2s.0.2s.0.3s.0.2s.0.3s.0.2s.0|p39.u3ab.0.0.f4|39.1|57.5e.5s.5b.0|e

I think this would work better for Max damage.

Nope, without infusion of shadow you run out of initative and have to use worse chain of using CnD less often.

Molch.2078:

If you run a 20/30/0/0/20 Build, you can use eviscerate. When you start your next 100b, you have 2 1/2 bars of adrenaline. Eviscerate deals about 15-20k in 1 sec, no way your telling me, that the 12% DPS-loss from a few axe autohits is worse.

go plug your rotation into the spreadsheet

i rarely use anything but signet of malice, it’s the best soft damage mitigation Vs bosses with unavoidable light damage.

Raptured.9307:

you are forgetting the vulnerability and other buffs that warriors bring to the table that are really their source of individual and party dps (and stack). Also, thieves are simply much less tanky and sustained dps requires tankiness to a point, even if at a near minimum level (zerk war)

And this is why I think the current meta is a bit stagnet. From my perspective, you’d want an engineer for vulnerability and conditions, a warrior for offensive party buffs, and then some thieves to take advantage of that!

But conditions are worthless, you only need 2 warriors for 25 vuln, and every single warrior can self buff themselves better then they can group buff.

So you end up with a party comp of 1 guardian 1 mesmer and 3 warriors.
Yawn

What I found interesting about the numbers is that, even though some classes have better DPS then others.

If you have 1 warrior in the group built for banners and AoE might stacking (only a small reduction in personal DPS), you can bring pretty much whatever class you want to the party (assuming berzerker gear and non-suckage) and still down bosses pretty quick. Not record time, but fast enough that it’s easy.

Dub.1273:

I’m using 20/30/0/0/20, greatsword with force/undead slaying sigil and exotic/asended berserker armor with scholar runes. 40k is not very much on Hunter/Mage Crusher/Deadeyes/other low armor mobs, i’ve already had 55k 100b on Hunter and a 28k Whirlwind Attack, neither with 25 Might nor with 25 vulnerability stacks. WA will mostly hit with 4 hits when you stand in max melee range away from your target and WA through it.

download the spreadsheet, and plug that all in

Dub.1273:

I’m using 20/30/0/0/20, greatsword with force/undead slaying sigil and exotic/asended berserker armor with scholar runes. 40k is not very much on Hunter/Mage Crusher/Deadeyes/other low armor mobs, i’ve already had 55k 100b on Hunter and a 28k Whirlwind Attack, neither with 25 Might nor with 25 vulnerability stacks. WA will mostly hit with 4 hits when you stand in max melee range away from your target and WA through it.

Most people would like more flexibility in their character, or can’t afford to have a weapon for each dungeon.

randomfightfan.4091:

Scootabuser.4915:

iNaddict.8021:

I would have to disagree with you there though. I maintain that no matter how big of numbers you see.. a thief backing off to recuperate is a thief doing 0 dps.. i would at least go with cond removal and shadow protection in the SA tree to be able to stay in the fight..

The problem is that no matter how good you are.. without toughness or vit.. when you get hit.. (and you will.. even if its just once) you go SPLAT.. and now a liability for your team because you need to rez or help get rezzed..

I shudder to think how much toughness and vitality you have on your thief to make any sort of difference in your survivability

Without the initiative on stealth, your dps drops DRAMATICALLY as you run out of initiative, lose 10% from first strikes, and have to chain together several auto attacks before you can CnD again. Infusion of shadow is actually one of the MOST important traits in the build.

Full damage builds are possible, but have high skill caps. Source: I rock

I like you speak the truth and are confident without acting like a jerk. I also agree that at least 10 points into sa gives a massive dps boost sue to infusion. I go 20 but that’s just cause it fits really well with my play style. I haven’t read enough into the previews to know what’s going on but I hope you’re right.

Also reading that chart on an iPod is impossible (at least it was for me), mind lettin me know the short of what it said about war dps

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/warrior/Build-The-REAL-maximum-DPS-warrior/first#post1886080

guys, you have to DOWNLOAD the spreadsheet in the link, the default builds on that thing are NOT what I used, the default builds on the spreadsheets use omnomberry bars and the wrong traits with bad rotations and are missing sigils.

Also, if you want to add a dodge into the rotation, you can do it yourself, a dodge takes .75 seconds and you can dodge every 10 seconds SO

CnD
Backstab
Auto
CnD
Backstab
Auto
Dodge

THAT BEING SAID, why. This is what’s called theoretical DPS. It is not an accurate in game measurement, rather it is a tool for understanding how different classes compare. For example, the theoretical DPS of ranged weapons are usually around 3-4k DPS, 10-50% less damage then melee. AN did this on purpose for the exact reason that sometimes melee people have to back out and BLAH BLAH BLAH

Applied DPS is the in game accurate one, but to do that, you need a DPS counter and ALOT of trials. And I mean ALOT of trials, and it’s going to change per player. So from a scientific perspective applied DPS isn’t as useful when looking at things like class balance, or best builds.

DEEP BREATH

ok im done

Auesis.7301:

Scootabuser.4915:

Auesis.7301:

Is this meant to be applicable everywhere in the game? I’ve played Thief in to the quadruple digits in terms of hours and consider myself extremely proficient with the class in PvE, but I can’t see myself landing maximum DPS in this way 100% of the time in, say, Urban Battleground Fractal at 40+ without getting splattered all over the pavement within nanoseconds by the armies of Warriors and Mages. I could definitely run this build in any of the regular dungeons with little worry, but I have my doubts that it would work in every nook and cranny of end-game content, like the example I gave. But then, I pug a lot, so depending on group setup, I guess…

Why would you be using daggers for that? Guardian wall of you shall not pass + shortbow or Sword/Pistol if your feeling lucky.

You don’t use d/d for trash. That’s why you carry a 25 stack sigil on your other weaponset which is designed for AoE trashpulls.

That’s exactly what I meant. I got the impression that you were literally just using D/D everywhere and for everything, and I almost wanted to punch a wall. Thank god you don’t.

That’s what I like about the thief, 30/30 will give you 100% or 95% DPS potential on every weapon-set.

Auesis.7301:

Is this meant to be applicable everywhere in the game? I’ve played Thief in to the quadruple digits in terms of hours and consider myself extremely proficient with the class in PvE, but I can’t see myself landing maximum DPS in this way 100% of the time in, say, Urban Battleground Fractal at 40+ without getting splattered all over the pavement within nanoseconds by the armies of Warriors and Mages. I could definitely run this build in any of the regular dungeons with little worry, but I have my doubts that it would work in every nook and cranny of end-game content, like the example I gave. But then, I pug a lot, so depending on group setup, I guess…

Why would you be using daggers for that? Guardian wall of you shall not pass + shortbow or Sword/Pistol if your feeling lucky.

You don’t use d/d for trash. That’s why you carry a 25 stack sigil on your other weaponset which is designed for AoE trashpulls.