Guild Wars 2

Ryou.2398:

Isnt the point of pvp working with your groups anyways? No class is meant to be be viable with multiple classes in an mmorpg ever.

And that my friend is the reason standard mesmer is complete trash in SPvP. You are by no means able to survive without a lot of stealth play (PU/Decoy/Torch) and once u run this build you won’t be able to bring a lot of utitlity for your team.

altough i think you can bring some things to the team with condi pressure MoA and Portal you are by no means a “great” addition to a pvp comp as base mesmer.
GW2 has always been about skill and outplay. you can make any build work as long as your skilllevel is much higher than your enemies.

That said tough most (If not all) Elite-Specs are straight out better than their baseline. And Chrono is the biggest improvent out of all of them. think of all the old builds and you find that most builds are focused on 2 Lines only (PowerShatterMesmer = Domi+Duel, PU = Illu+Chaos) and chrono is just the perfect addition to all “Oldschool” mesmer builds.

to be harsh and honest. if this skill is not getting reworked coming april 19th noone who does anything seriously will touch it till the end of summer.

A lot of good points made by the three of you.
I see where you are coming and special thanks to step. almost forgot how it felt when the whole party screams and cries because the chrono who is playing is not as good as you.

IMO is just has this different feeling of rewards. Most of the time you as Chrono are just as good as the other players you play with. You can carry the dps somewhat but if ppl are bad and dont know how to use their cooldowns you feel more lost than any other class.

For example: Your team is doing bad in gorseval split phase and you manage to pull the small trashmobs together and cleave them down. if you are alone you get reminded of why plaing mesmer in open world is just a pain.

That the Core Mesmer is underperforming atm is not even up for debate imo. if you have the power to cast everything twice in a row things have to be tweakd for it not to be straight out broken.

In this Topic the focus lies on PvE alone. (Mostly Raids)
All changes suggested are not ment to be balanced in other game modes (SPvP&WvW)

Variations of Mesmers/Chronomancers seen in PvE:

1. Standard full Berserker/Assassins Armor Chronomancer

This variation is one of the most seen if not the most seen builds running around in Tyria.
Most of the time running only meele weapons with a Sword/Shield, Sword/Focus setup.

Traitlines:

Domination
Illusions/Inspiration
Chronomancer

Utility: Sometimes Feedback, Some Wells, Timewarp

Advantages:
Good group support (Quickness/Alacrity)
Nice survivability if played correctly (Evades, Blocks, Distortion)
Huge failsave mechanics (sharing Distortion)
In theory highest (100%) possible reflect uptime (Traited-Focus+Feedback+CS)

Disadvantages:
Very low personal DPS
High DPS downtime if your Phant. get destroyed trough mechanics (Slubling, Matthias sacrifice)
somewhat hard to master skill rotation (timing inside of split needs some practice)
If you have 1 Chronomancer who plays perfect you cant even make an argument to bring a second.
Revenant dependend (for Facet of Nature)

2. Commander/Full boon duration Chronomancer

This variation is said to be the most effective in Raids. The gear is expensive / annoying to get but most of the time worth the effort put in.

Most of the time running a full meele loadout aswell. Sword/Shield, Sword/X

Traitlines:
Inspiration
Illusions/Domination
Chronomancer

Utility: WoRecall/Feedback, WoAction, SoI, Timewarp,

Advantages:
This build excells even more in the strong points mentioned above
It brings close to 100% quickness uptime and a good amount of Alacrity
Running a CommanderChrono will always make sure that the group is capped of with might and things like protection thanks to SoI and the SoI autocast from Inspiration Grandmaster.
Very good at tanking certiant bosses (VG&Gorseval) your dps is low anyways and alacrity and quickness can be shared while pulling the boss to the certain spots.
Does not need a Revenant to perform but like to have one.

Disadvantages:
Even lower personal DPS
If you are not the main tank high dps loss (Toughness from the commander gear needs to be taken into accout from the tank)
Skillrotation is still hard to pull of for some ppl.
Only room for 1 chronomancer.

3. Condition Chronomancer

I dont know a thing about condition builds they seem to have somewhat higher max. DPS than Berserker builds but need more time to hit that DPS. (3 Pistol phantasms)

Some insight on this build would be nice.
——————————————————————————————-

Problems every Chronomancer build has in PvE:
This post is already long enough so let’s keep it simple

DPS

We get outclasses by almost every profession in terms of DPS and are not suited to play any other role than being a BoonBot.
We need a lot of time to get rolling in big scale fights andare not getting awarded for it.

If i manage to keep up 3 phantasams all the time and keep the group quickness up nonetheless why does this DH who is only AA with his hammer still doing more DPS.

What are your generall toughts about Chronomancers/Mesmers in PvE what could be done to make them more “rewarding” to play?

Ty for reading.

If they run a somewhat “Bunker Chrono” build it is pretty difficult to stack condi’s i agree.

The Well itself has a 1 second cast time (when it drops on you there is not much you can do) but in retrospec the Chrono needs to know where you will be 1 second from now so maybe changing up your moving patterns while fighting could help alot.

For example:
Do you always use DD Fire #3 directly on top of him?
Do you use DD Air #5 in the same way all the time?
things like this might put you closer to your goal.

One thing to look for would be to counterpressure instantly.
Chrono has the advantage that they can use all of their skills in many different ways.
Blink in to burst – Blink out to survive
Decoy in to burst – decoy out of dmg
Use GS #5 for interrupt + followup – Use GS #5 to get some breathing room

These are the things that make this class so awesome to play but it can be its greates flaw aswell.

Did he just blink in on you and you avoided his burst? Nice he cant blink out ! use this to your advantage !

In general most chrono matchups are about adjusting on the fly. while in combat. what CD’s does he have? am i standing near an illusion? Is he going for the killing blow or is he trying to survive what i throw at him?

There are many things to think about and it just needs time to get in a mesmers mind

sticky please? Great work mate. !

From your post i think you have somewhat a good grasp fighting against chrono but let me give you some Checkpoints to think about.

- dodge or blind Mirrorblade
- don’t get triangled by illusions (you standing in the middle and 3 illusions in a triangle around you)
- try not to hit the Block (Mesmer Shield #4)
- Shield #5 returns so be carefull and maybe sidestep it.
- Shield #5 gives the mesmer quickness maybe stay out of autoattack range for 1 second?
- force as many conditions on him as possible (This should be pretty doable since most Chrono builds have 0 or 1 condi cleanse)
- once he hits blurred frenzy (Sword #2) wait for it to time out and burst immediatly (most mesmers use Sword #2 when they dont have dodges up
- Gravity Weil has a long cast animation / time change up your movement while he casts it so he cant “predict” where you will be. (Srsly this skill is so easy to dodge without even using a dodge just lern it tells)
- If he uses Gravity Well (Well that lifts you up and interrupts you 3 times) use stab to counter it. if you do get cought tho dont use skills that can be interrupted. (The Weil deals very little dmg the interrupt kill you.)
- When he pops the “Evade Weil”:
– if he’s in sword: distance yourself and get some healing done / prep for burst
– if he’s in greatsword watchout for mirrorblade and iZerker they will most likely come out soon.
- Once he enters Split you are able to cancel his time shift (Just destroy the Rift that spawned) as soon as you destroy the rift the Chrono will be ported to this exact location and most likely be cought of guard.

I think you are on a pretty good way and hope you can do it soon !
hope this helps.

Maybe try to adjust your gamma setting.
Could help a lot or nothing. Depends on the problem you have.

Just give it a shot.

The “standard” newbie class is warrior. Its easy to learn and can be really good in groups.

You can provide lots of Damage and Might Buffs (Might icreases your DMG output)

My second suggestion would be Engi. Its somewhat hard to learn but is by fat the most versital class in the game. You can provide pretty much anything and have lots of different options to play. Kinda hard to get it rolling tough.

Knighthonor.4061:

Elite Spec Name: Bard
Weapon: Short Bow
New Skill Type: Coda
Mechanics: F1-F5 skills are changed into what are called “Verses”. Traits that normally work with Shatters also trigger on Verses.

Mesmer Elite Spec becomes Bards.

Bards take their short bow into the field of war to inspire and heal their allies with their soothing voice whiling channeling their music.

Bard is a new Healer/Boon support Elite Spec. Bards sing loud Verses that shatters their illusions into wonderful sounds that apply boons and heals allies.

Codas are ranged channel skills that deal damage from afar to enemies. Codas apply Boons to allies within the Coda’s sound wave, and heals allies near the target’s location, making for great sustain healing verse the burst healing of a Druid.

whats your thoughts on this?

Very nice idea but i would not like it tbh. We already have 2 Long Ranged 2HWeapons.

We need a Main Hand Power based ranged weapon next. (Axe pls?)

CruleD.7380:

Don’t play Mesmer, especially with high ping.

+1
Mesmer with high ping is the worst. Don’t do this to yourself or to your teammates. play something like Warri or Guard.

One thing i forgot to mention.

Don’t only look at runes and sigils learn your traits.
Some traitlines are mebt to keep you alive you just need to find out how.

For example: (sry that I’m mostly talking about chrono it’s my main )
Chaos
This traitline is met to prevent dmg before it happens. Trough things like chaos-armor and protection. It’s still good after you took some dmg but much better at preventing dmg.

Ask yourself what is it this traitline excels in.
How do I play?

Thinking like this helps a lot. Especially if you don’t know your own play style yet.

But most importantly never give up. We all have these lose streaks just stop playing for 5 minutes an think about what happens in this 1v1 that situation.

Did your build let you down? Did you use it right? Was it nothing you did wrong? (2 DH out of nowhere interrupting your 1v1)

It’s mostly just about learning your class.

For example:
You try to play chrono
Most builds tell you to run marauders or even berserkers amulet.

But in my opinion you should just start with something more forgiving.
So maybe try celestial with some defensiv rune.
Once you feel comfortable try it with an offensive rune.
After that you go for something more offensive amulet wise and defensive runes and sigils.

If you follow this trend you will most likely figure things out by urself.

Hope this helped.

Good point. Sorry. i’ll edit it.

Osicat.4139:

I don’t understand why you claim PU is “nerfed to the ground” Tbh only nerf In the whole patch is vigour is 5 sec on a 10 sec cd instead of 5 sec cd. with PU boon uptime + traveler you already have about 8 sec uptime meaning you now have 2 sec without vigour at worst.

You don’t even need to use the “create clone on death” trait to be effective as a power PU Mesmer and as a condition you can play well without dodge to overwrite clones to create death.

The crit dmg nerf happens to al classes and affect thiefs worse than mesmers, I kinda sure you overreacting and misunderstand.

/Osicat

Ok nerfed to the ground is maybe a bit hard you’re right.
But what IMO really sucks is that now you can’t destroy them by yourself anymore so now they need to die randomly. This makes (only saying it again this is only my oppinion) PU a random build if you fight someone who has equal skill your chances decreasse a lot.

But maybe the Shattercat can come up with some “usefullnes” for the mesmer.

Overall you’re right but i hope you get my point.

PS: Love your vids / builds

selan.8354:

reroll. so all u want is seeing GWEN then and remove all classes then. sure . go walk your stupid golems, go take those walls down as im sick of hiding in a keep, go fight the enemy without veil and tw!

^- This every mesmer should just reroll. I got over 1k hours on my mesmer (80% of my gametime) and with every patch it gets worse and worse and worse. We cant even 1v1 anymore after the vigor nerf and the DE nerfs. We cant do condis half as good as Necro Ele or Ingi, We dont have any burst left and yeah we got the veil thing going for us wich is nice. So everyone just reroll a Warrior.

PvE is tagged because the nerf to vigor effects all mesmer builds. and many ppl use shatter builds in PvE aswell.

And selan i agree most of the time you use DE in a defensiv way or to get that quick interrupt you need while you dodge backwards if i dont get anything to block the dmg (mostly projectile) we can just veil the zerg and then suicide or go afk while its on cd.

There is just no reason to play mesmer anymore. 0 reliable condi dmg 0 burst if shatter gets hit that hard and for that bit of mantra support you cant use in bigger fights (3v3 MAX) you can just play a ele. If you want reflect play Guardian anything else? Warrior …

We all need to speak up.

Best way to do this is to support this Post -> https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/PvE-PvP-Mesmer-builds/first#post3515936

And share your toughts. even if you dont aggree with me say something be vocal !

Thanks to each and everyone of you #Mesmerlove

With the upcoming nerfs there are really 0 viable mesmer builds for pvp.
And only like 1 for WvW (Mantra Heal) and about 1/2 for Pve (Phantasm)

Since PU will be nerfed to the ground and be totally random and you can’t shatter in the enemys face because you can’t override your clone infront of him and he can dodge everything / just run away while drinking his coffe and doing the dishes. (Mostly because Sword #3 is still bugged like kitten).

That just seems totally wrong, everyone talks about build diversity and how every class should have more and more viable builds. But we as the mesmers get all our builds that work for in the meta nerfed after 1 month.

I just want you to think about this and appel to my fellow mesmers.
Don’t riot. But show yourself if we dont do anything against it or no one gets this msg we can all reroll a warrior.

I can’t move ever. (Mesmer)

Oh and after the next patch i cant even dodge anymore.

And all my builds that would in theory still work are totally random (PU now)

I had a great build diversity. HAD.

If a Condi necro just looks at me i’m done.

Last but not least and most important:
I can’t move ever….

Hi, in this topic i’d like to discuss the mesmer signets and in what spot they are if they should be changed and how.

Lets get right in to it the current signets are:

1.
Signet of Domination
¼ 45
Passive: Improved condition damage.
Active: Stun your foe.

2.
Signet of Illusions
1¼ 90
Passive: Grants more health to your illusions.
Active: Recharge your shatter skills.

3.
Signet of Inspiration
¾ 45
Passive: Grants a random boon every ten seconds.
Active: Copy all of your boons to nearby allies.

4.
Signet of Midnight
30
Passive: Improves boon duration.
Active: Blind nearby foes.

Now we should take a deeper look:

1.
I’m sorry but i dont see it here.
If i want to stun my foe i normally would like to burst him now so passiv condition dmg seems just misplaced.
2.
This Signet…
If i want my illusions to have more HP i normally dont want to have my shatter skills up more often so another misplace.
3.
This one is in a really good spot !
4.
It seems a bit wierd maybe some work needed but not as bad as 1 and 2.

Some oppinions?

I think my main point was a bit missunderstood. i dont mean mesmers should have perma switftness thats ridic. but at least 1 other option except focus 4 would be very very needed.

The thing is you need to wear a focus or buy specific runes just to be able to have swiftness and thats just awful if we compare it to other classes.

(Warrior can drop 1 banner – > swiftness : and that rage thingy elite spell ~)
Ele have wind magic everywhere ~
Engi they have swiftness like everywhere?
thiekittenhortbow 5 -> Swiftness on dodge in a minor trait. -> swiftness on steal on a low trait.
and so on.

we as mesmers dont even have a trait that grants us swiftness (except random after an interrupt !!)

IF there is a good reason behind that please somebody let me know.

:: A 25% movement signet would do the trick ~

this really needs to happen.

in SPvP if i have to catch someone i just cant rely on my sword 3 most of the time i blink next to my target and double tab 3 just to be sure the immobilize gets off…

Really frustrating.

Good point, good solutions.
+1 !

frifox.5283:

Can your conditions tick for 10k/sec and up? No.

You can get your condis pretty high ! and dont forgett that everything i do while my condis do dmg i do dmg myself so yes if you are a really good condi player you outdmg every zerker after a short ramp up time.

I get your point. But the balance is easy to handle (IMO) Maybe bleed could be higher stacks than torment and burn could be a bit longer.

But the priority system seems like a pretty good idea i dont see many downsides this way but i could be a bit to stong if only the “strong condis” would stay on the boss.

Bleed seems to be the main Condi dmg for most classes (Except ele maybe) and i think poison and burn should be pushed in skillvariant and bleed should not be apply’d by that many skills.

I’m a mesmer and i hate conditions. not more to say in PvP i think they are in a good place maybe a bit to stong but not much. PvE Condis are just bad atm.

Everyone knows Condi builds are bad in PvE at the moment. But why is that?

Most classes stack some conditions really easy. Sadly these are mostly the same condition.

So lets say we have a Party of 5 Man
1 Ranger
1 Mesmer
1 Guardian
1 Warrior
1 Necro

In our setup lets say the weapons are:
Ranger: Shortbow
Mesmer: Sword / Focus
Thief: Dagger / Dagger
Warrior: Axe / Axe
Necro: Axe / Warhorn

We have 1 Condi skilled Ranger here the rest are all zerkers (typical ~)
So everyone flames the Ranger for not doing damage but why is that.
In theory his Bleeding tics should do massive damage and after a ramp up time he should out dmg the zerker classes by far.

The main dmg from the Ranger comes from his Weapon 1 Bleeding Stack he can keep up lets say around 7 Stacks of bleeding (Condiduration & more)

Now lets look at the other classes Bleeds that do almost 0 dmg.

If the Mesmer has 15 Points in Duelling his Illusions infect bleeding with every crit.
Thats about 5-6 Stacks of bleed so we are at 11 stacks at the moment.

i will go over the other classes quickly but this was just to make my point clear.

Thief:
Death Blossom 3 Stacks (Spamable)
Warrior:
Precise Strikes 33% chance upon critical hit
about ~0.3 stacks per Second.
Necro
Barbed Precision 66% chance upon critical hit
about ~0.6 stacks per Second.

So my whole point is that as soon as our ranger reaches his 7 Stacks of bleed (Lets say his Best Damage Possible (BDP))
His BDP will get crushed by all the other bleeding stacks from his party members. he cant set up his dmg and will do way less dmg then everybody else.

My solution to this (IMO rather big problem) is different classes should have different ways of getting a good Condition.
Example:
Necro Main Condi : Torment
Ranger Main Condi: Bleed
Thief Main Condi: Poison

And so on.

Maybe think about this post for a second and please give me some reply. I would love to start a great discussion here.

#NOTOZERKER
:)

Great insights here.

I think you’re right with almost every point.
Personally i play a Shatter Mesmer in PvE (Typical 20/20/0/0/30) and staff works not very good with this build but i use it in some bossfights (like Grawl Fractal) as my “i need to escape” Weapon. But the only thing i do if i ever switch to the staff is 2 – 4 – 5 switchback. 3 Doesnt hit anyway and 1 is just yeah lets not talk about it.

My improvments:
Make the iWarlock hit, and maybe think about the conditions (from skill 1) maybe Vulnerability isnt the best option and maybe replace bleed with Torment (maybe a bit op) but there are way to many classes that stack bleed so easy something should change there (Only my personal opinion)

I agree. Staff needs some PvE work.

I just feel like they are Auto-Shot AFK at theyre 1600 Range and when they get hit they need about 5 seconds to recognize. but most of them are dead after 3.

Thats for Random rangers tough. My guildmates play some pretty good Rangers with combo fields Might-Stacking and lots of dmg. so i like some rangers.

And like everyone says:
Bearbow. WHY?! it just adds nothing to the dun. Team.

This Topic is about the limitet Out of Combat Movement that Mesmers have.

It’s a huge point for every Mesmer main. Its frustrating.

As a Mesmer the only Swiftness Skill is the Focus 4. – Temporal Curtain
(GW2 Wiki link: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Temporal_Curtain)

And the Random Swiftness on the Signet of Insparation.
(GW2 Wiki link: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Inspiration)
A deeper look:

Temporal Curtin:
Create a wall of energy that grants Swiftness to allies who cross it while crippling foes who touch it.
Swiftness: 12 s
Cooldown: 25s
Signet of Inspiration:
Passive: Grants a random boon every ten seconds.
Active: Copy all of your boons to nearby allies. (Short note: Not yourself)
So we have a 1/8 chance to get 10 seconds of Swiftness so in theory you have Swiftness every 70 seconds for 10 seconds

The Main Problems with Temporal Curtin:

First:
Bounds you to use the Focus in each and every Situation.
If PvP or PvE (WvW Sometimes~) you can’t travel without it.
Second and worst Problem:
This Swiftness Buff (12s) doesn’t stack with any other Swiftness you have applied.

Example:
You got a swiftness buff from your Random Signet and this Buff hast 2 seconds left then you walk trough your Temporal Curtin and nothing happens. Nothing.

Worst Case Zenario:
You want to Speedbuff yourself by using the Temporal Curtin and you set it up right infront of you. Now your Signet Procs the Random Swiftness.
You end up with 10 Seconds of Swiftness and a 25 second cooldown on your Focus.
You just wasted an ability and it wasn’t really your fault. Good Job.

But not everything is bad. I know this seems like a ‘Cry me a river’ Topic for many other classes (I think and i hope mesmers will understand my misery).

I hope its readable. English is not my First Language.

Shinja.