Guild Wars 2

A burrowing wurm is a productive wurm =)

On another note I think we should have way more choice of minions than we have access to currently, we need more primary minions with special attacks as 2nd skills to make a MM playstyle more viable. That is after they fix everything else that’s wrong with our minions (AI, out of combat regain, hp / dps ratio)

Because flesh wurm is such a perfect pet as a shock trooper instead of sitting in the backlines it should be used to inspire awe in the fronline charging head on with Necrotic burrow =)

I’d rather have minions that do more active special attacks then escape and roots like we do now ..

That’s a great idea Munrock. Maybe have the necro place a soul shard (something similiar to a phylactery for liches) that contain a part of the necro’s soul enabling the use of the necrotic traversal skill so we’d have:

1st skill Manifest Soul shard

1200 m range 40 sec cd

Instant 

The necromancer pours a portion of his soul into a shard enabling the use of 2nd skill Necrotic traversal. The soul shard can be destroyed if damaged sufficiently causing a powerful AOE doing x amounts of spectral damage. If the soul shard is destroyed the necromancer and the targets in its vicinity become dazed for 1 sec.

Alternatively the shard could be impervious to damage and therefore indestructible for a set amount of time say 1 mins before fading away resetting the skill.

2nd skill Necrotic Traversal

Instant
Poison: 10 s (840 damage)
Radius: 180
Life force: 20%
Breaks stun
Combo Finisher: Blast
Range: 1,200

The necro teleports to the soul shard’s location. All nearby foes become Poisoned for 10 seconds (upped from 5). Grants 20% life force (upped from 10% to justify the transition to a seperate utility skill.

(could also return e.g. 10 % of max hp and prolong poison duration to 20 secs if traited)

This way the enemy would still be faced by that lose / lose situation that Striker talked about. If enemies attack the shard they suffer an high damage aoe, if they don’t you have an escape ability, LF generation and the potential to poison them for a considerably time.

Furthermore, seperating Necrotic traversal from the wurm would allow the wurm to have a drastically lower cooldown, though there would still need to be a pretty long cd on Necrotic Burrow due to the hard cc it provides.

.. How about this replace the 2nd skill of the wurm with Necrotic Burrow and make Necrotic Traversal a separate skill like it was in GW1

SO we’d have:

1st skill Summon Flesh Wurm Same as now

2nd skill Necrotic Burrow

Targeted (similiarly to how you would summon the wurm)

1200 m range. 60 sec cd

The flesh wurm burrows into the ground, erupting at the target location, causing enemies in the vicinity to flee in terror for 1. 5 seconds and deals e.g. 600 AOE spectral damage.

Alternatively it could cause a knockback / stun effect. (e.g. Maybe if traited it would stun / knockback in addition to the fear)

AND

Necrotic Traversal (as a seperate utility skill)

Instant
Poison: 10 s (840 damage)
Radius: 180
Life force: 20%
Breaks stun
Combo Finisher: Blast
Range: 1,200

Exploit a random corpse. You teleport to that corpse’s location and all nearby foes become Poisoned for 10 seconds (upped from 5). Grants 20% life force (upped from 10% to justify the transition to a seperate utility skill.

(could also e.g. return 10 % of max hp and prolong poison duration to 20 secs if traited)

This way we get an additional hard cc / source of damage with the wurm, while gaining a more powerful albeit seperate Nectrotic Traversal utility.

What do you guys think?

I agree with Funky in pve the wurm in it’s current iteration is not very good. Implementing burrowing would help make it an attractive choice for an utility slot.

I’d be fine with a 90 sec CD as long as we get an useful and menacing minion that litterarly strikes fear in our enemies instead of just having underwhelming minions that our enemies can ignore and laugh at while bursting us down . .

There would also kind of be a built in balance with this ability in that you’d have to kill your wurm in able to be able to use the fear / knockback component again so you’d be unlikely to use this cc mechanic more than once during a normal fight . .

.. how about this, keep the 2nd skill as it is but change the first ability “summon flesh wurm” to have the worm errupt from the ground – instead of just appearing – causing a fear and /or knockdown effect in an area around it.

So 1st skill Summon Flesh Wurm

Targeted

1200 m range. 90 sec cd (upped 50 sec for balance)

Causes a flesh wurm to erupt from the ground at the target location, causing enemies in the vicinity to flee in terror for 1. 5 seconds. Deals x amount of damage.

(or knockback/ knockdown with trait)

2nd ability Necrotic Traversal stays the same.

This way everybody is happy, we get to keep the escape and tactical advantage of necrotic traversal and we get another hard cc to help “lock horns” with other classes.

Thank you, that was my thought as well. I don’t want to lose the pet I just summoned for an extremely situational tp that has very little useability. I’d rather have an ability I could use offensively (and defensively) with it w/o instantly losing it.

After witnessing the wurms in game (mobs) that keept burrowing and emerging stunning enemies around it I keept thinking WHY can’t our wurms do that ! . . I mean the mechanism and visual effect are already in the game so I doubt it would cost much to apply it to our wurms . .

Dredlord.8076:

why would it have a lower cooldown and longer duration than our other aoe fear?

why would it have a lower cooldown than our elite pets knockdown/back?

its a neat idea though and would make some condition builds very powerful with all the CC and tankiness they could have

You’re right, the numbers I used was just to give an idea how it could work, they obviously need to be tweaked in order to be balanced, but I think we need some additional sources of cc if we are to be able to “lock horns” and prevent ppl from escaping like the devs envisage =).

This way the utility slot for the wurm would not be wasted, in fact it would be a rather attractive minion.

P.s. Also, I think this skill would be harder to land than the golem’s charge ability because you need to target the ground, and ppl can see the wurm borrowing and have time to dodge it (it wouldn’t be instant like marks), so I’d rather not have it on a very long cd . . however edited the cd up to 45 secs and reduced fear duration to 1.5 secs

Summon Flesh Wurm.

Most people seem to think that this is a moderately useful minion with rather decent damage . . however, the 2nd skill " Necrotic Traversal" seems to be rather counterintuitive . .

It defeats the purpose of summoning this minion only to kill it for a mildly useful terrain impaired TP and making us wait for a long cd to use it again. This sacrificing of expendable minions works themetically better for the weak looking bone minions but I’d rather have some more use out of the flesh wurm . .

Instead, I suggest changing the 2nd skill into "Necrotic Burrow " which plays to the pets strength instead of killing it off.

1st skill Summon Flesh Wurm

2nd skill Necrotic Burrow

Targeted (similiarly to how you would summon the wurm) 

1200 m range. 45 sec cd

The flesh wurm burrows into the ground, erupting at the target location, causing enemies in the vicinity to flee in terror for 1. 5 seconds and deals x amount of damage.

Alternatively it could cause a knockback / stun effect. (e.g. Maybe if traited it would stun / knockback in addition to the fear)

What do you guys think? Also depending on the range of the burrow attack enemies would be able to visually see the burrowing in a straight line towards them and be able to dodge out of the way, for balance reasons.

I like your suggestions would make the necro more in tune with the devs vision of necro’s being able to “lock horns” with someone / preventing them from escaping.

I actually think we should have some kind of % based slow. It could be a trait or a # 5 active ability for death shroud (never made sense why DS only has only 4 abilities when it is clearly a revised down state) make it with a duration of maybe 10 secs and a 90 sec cooldown. E.g.

Shadow link

-Channeled (you could still cast other spells while channeling)

Project spectral energy unto your target, slowly clouding their mind and dulling their senses The longer your target is in the presence of the necro the slower their movement speed becomes.

e.g. -5% slow per second up to a maximum of -50% movement speed for the full duration. The effect is ended prematurely if the target or the necro moves outside X range or breaks visual contact resulting in a 1 sec stun on the target and a 0.5 sec daze on the necro. (for balance)

Alternatively there could also be a damage component to this spell while removing the ability to cast other spells while channeling.

Visually “shadow link” could look like some kind of black shadowy tentacles latching onto the target.

Would give necro’s more of this envisioned ability to “lock horns” in a more satisfactory manner while negating some of the more annoying situations whereby thiefs or eles, mesmers just blink / stealth or otherwise escape easily with low hp. Would give hit and run thiefs pause before just “oh this isn’t going well I’ll pop into stealth heal up then try again”.

Anet has reccently corroborated reports of several necro’s being unstoppable in PVP due to them mastering the DeathShroud mechanics and unlocking it’s truly OP secrets.

In response they introduced a stealth nerf in the latest patch that further increase minion ‘s Artificial (Counter) Intelligence. Minions will from here on out try to subvert the necro’s activities as much as inhumanly possible, in addition they will act as informants and report directly to their handler (John Peters) within Anets counter necro division.

This message will be auto – censured in 10 seconds. Courtesy of Anets “costumer relations”

Venom out.

Any of these ideas would be a vast improvement to the current iteration of DS. Just wish that any changes they do to DS also incorporate something useful for Minion masters .. seems Anet is keen on ignoring that particular play style . . we should generally have more weapon skills that involves minions or undeath more . . maybe like summon temporary minions that do x damage to target then disappears .. or heal minions for x amount or grant buffs etc to minions

androidsheep.4271:

thinking about the lich again, usually they have a phylactery (please correct me if thats not what its called) which grants the character immortality until its destroyed. I think it would be cool if when you go into lich form you put down one of those and that acts as your hit points. it could have the effect where you will be able to go charging into battle without worrying about death from the enemy in front of you, but you need to leave the phylactery unguarded to do so.

I love this idea! Would make the elite a little more useful and strategic. You could wade into battle and practically be invulnerable for 30 secs however, to outweigh this, I think if left unattended one could shatter the phylactery similar to a stomp mechanic (f) but here’s the kicker since the phylactery is imbued with your soul. You would DIE not get downed if it was fully shattered. Now this would only happen if the phylactery is destroyed. You could also damage the phylactery normally up until a point by attacking it, up until it reaches X HP then the phylactery would be slightly cracked and your soul can escape back into your body and you return to normal form.

It could also pulse with an AOE doing spectral damage the more you damage it . .

SO you would either have to hide it well if you’re planning on leaving it unguarded or have a teammate guard it to prevent people from shattering it.

I Agree that minions models and the general implementation of minions in the game is rather underwhelming and way too ‘safe’ (PG 13) looking .. Like they were designing it in mind for 12 yr old girls (bunnies) who the kitten made the decision to make them into undead bunnies ..

That is merely the visual aspect though, even more problematic is the mechanism behind our minions .. While the Mesmer can create clones (read minions) just by using their weapon skills we have to sacrifice utility slots to even be able to use ours. Preventing us from using our utility slot for actual utility. OK – this system would be mediocre even if our minions did equal damage to mesmers pets and had similiar health, but here’s the kicker; they don’t. that leaves us – the pet class – with atrocious minions with sub standard functions and damage .. I would rather they changed our profession mechanics; DS to be about minions, allowing us to have lots of low -medium powered minions or a few really powerful ones .. Not a few really weak minions that we have now and that we have to give up our precious utility slots for!

@ Nekroseth

I agree that Anet’s interpretation of the necomancer leaves something o be desired. The gw2 necro is something more akin to a warlock / cultist (necromancer ’light) than a true master of death ..

Generally I think out profession mechanics should be something more in tune with death than with darkness and shadow ..

Maybe they should just have different undead forms we could transform ourselves into based on which build we choose .. At any rate we should have more weapons that actually involve summoning temporary undead minions that attack and deal damage to our enemies and less of this ‘battle mage’ cultist that actually fights in Mele .. We should have more actual spells and less of a mele presence imo ..

What about something similar to the warrior’s ‘last stance’ skill but more in line with undeath / necro theme.

‘Cheat death’ 15 sec cool down. " Reanimates the necromancer’s body into temporary undeath. Last 15 sec, after which you are defeated. Grants a new skill bar

Would be cool, and more useful than the current poison ground effect, and would fit really well wih the necro’s mythical ability to cheat / mitigate / subvert death . .

@ Riot

Still doesn’t excuse why our minions generally look rather pathetic and docile though . . why not make them look menacing / terrifying instead of looking like reanimated forest creatures, ah cute little bunny let’s make that into cute little undead bunny . . No thanks.

well I meant more expendable minions like a mesmers illussions and obviously minions need to scale with necro’s stats in the future for a MM build to be possible

I actually like this idea, this would make DS much more useful to individual builds and prove the framework for a more customizable necro experience . .

Though, I’d rather they removed DS all together and give us a class mechanics based upon minions instead.

@ Cope:

I completely agree with you, what a nice, thoughtful and well written post. +1

Agreed, that animation was the best part of necro animations except for the scythe. lol and they decided to scrap it -.-

Yes but I’m talking about the raw damage, it just isn’t there for necros compared to other classes, even DOT it doesn’t compare, it’s not even close to being in the same ballpark as a thief or a warrior. It’s not balanced or fun to feel weak while playing. Once you play a warrior or any other class really then you can’t unsee it . .

I started a warrior got to level 3 and had zero problem plowing through and decimating mobs at lvl 3 – 6. I then went further out from the starting area and started attacking mobs at lvl 7 -10 (i.e. 4-7 levels above me) that also worked but the mobs took a little longer to die.

But here’s the punch line: I was attacking mobs 4-7 levels above me with my warrior and I STILL killed things faster than my necro when facing a mob of his own level (granted I took more damage but still, you get the point) the all around damage output of necros is pathetic compared to other classes. Spin it any way you want. This is a fact. As a necro you’re struggling to level facing off with similiar level mobs while other proffesions have a breeze killing things twice as fast and coming out with over 80% hp . .

Now GW2 is a cool game all and I generally like the concept of dynamically down-leveling, but Anet failed to inform us that necromancers in the game are permanently down-leveled about 6 levels. So at 80 we’re de facto lvl 74.

This is my working theory. Discuss.

- –

P.S. this also explains why Jon thinks necro DS is OP, he must of course be playing an un down- leveled necro.

Now that I have spread my venomous thoughts, I’m going to play my mesmer.

Yeah, Jon the dev seems to be afraid of necromancer’s OP death shroud build so he doesn’t dare play a necromancer . .

I bet he plays a warrior though, seeing as they got buffed in the latest patch, probably because he thought they needed to be a bit stronger to tackle the all mighty DS necro . .

-.-

You’re right, as a necro you have to understand and utilize all these micro managing components correctly, and most people are fine with that, and even think it’s fun / challanging..

. . however, if we do all of this just to be 1/2 the strength of other proffessions that as you say can be played by “button mashing” then there is something seriously wrong.

Demonical.1039:

@Venom

Well DS was originally our Downed State for some reason they changed that into its current incarnation and thanks to that made us to way to survivable so they started slashing and nerfing the profession and now they just have no clue how to balance us, so we will be stuck like this for a pretty long time until they get a clue.

Exactly, at the very least give us a fith ability in DS something with conditions.

Personally, I’d be happy if they removed it all together if it meant we’d be equal in power to the other proffessions.

Exactly Zil, it takes finesse to play this class to the level where we do mediocre sustained damage over time . . while our enemies melt away our hp bar in seconds with only a rudimentary understanding of their class.

I have no idea of the fantasy build dev Jon has dreamed up where he “fears how overpowered we will become” when we finally “learn to play” . . lol

The only answer from Anet has been that they don’t really see necro’s as broken just hard to play or in other words “l2p” . . what is up with that? Good customer relations Jon. Way to alienate 90% of the necro community.

.. haha, agreed Nekrothaft., it’s a sad time to be necro when even devs are against us playing on an even playing field ..

Fun fact : Jon must play a warrior, power of deduction ^^

It’s ridiculous that a thief’s steal mechanics which is supposed to give you a weaker ability of the class you stole from gets a 3 sec fear while necro’s who are supposed to be masters of the fear condition only get 1 sec. Oh, the irony.

Also rerolling Mesmer and Warrior now.

Necro’s in short:

• Outdamaged by every other proffession

• Outsupported by most proffessions

• One viable build, really Anet? Play any way you want? Sure . .

• Crap minions, that don’t do much, but takes up valuable utility slots and looks visually like you raised your little sister’s pet bunnies as undead servants. Looks pathetic. Dies in 2 hits. Great.

• Broken class mechanics that locks out our skill bar and gives us not 5 skills – like every other skill bar replacement – but 4 mediocre skills with long cast time and sub par damage that decreases the more you use them. This mechanics also serve as a cover all excuse for the sorry state of the necromancer and keeps us from getting fixed due to the illusive “Overpowered Death Shroud build” that only developers know how to play effectively. Great.

• The shortest duration fear in game, despite fear originally conceived as a necro only condition.

Thank you Anet for destroying the necro proffession.

I just rerolled a mesmer until Anet wakes up from their development state of denial " necro’s may be weak but they have DS! So we have to make them weaker than other classes b******"

I’m having a good time w mesmer, their skills at least seems like they were designed to be synergetic, and there is better flow to the combat. And the damage may not be warrior high but it’s at least good. You kill things way faster than necro’s do at any rate.

I think an elite to summon a controlable scythe would be pretty cool .. but no idea what you mean by oltar? An altar?

I’ll paste some suggestions I originally posted in the thread “My beloved necro is a dissapointment” :

I just want ArenaNet to capitilaze more on the undeath component of necros. I think a lot of ppl would appreciate more cool, creative and imagitive skills that actually play of of this concept.

There could be so much you could do with it. Like Raise allies. Extending your own life after death.

.. how about an elite skill that raises all allies and foes in the area. Called e.g. “undying army” “Raise all reccently deseased in the area for 30 sec,up to maximum of 4- (if a player is affected they are granted a auxilerary toolbar and can choose to continue fighting in temporary undeath.” (allies would get a promt asking if they wanted to be revived with a 5 sec timer, if they declined an AI zombified version of them would be raised instead)

This could also maybe raise yourself if you die as a passive with an extremely high internal cooldown) in a temporary undead form (complete with a new skillbar) for 30 sec.

- Making dmg, heal you, and healing. dmg you, temporarily (like a variation of reversed energy on undead.. positive energy damanages and negative energy heals undead creatures)

- Armies (a lot) of low to medium powered minions that overwhelms foes. Teleporting to corpses. Consuming corpses to heal, or to gain mana or for buffs.
Self detonating on death (could be downed ability) etc.

Also how about another elite to summon a fleshreaver?

I personally would like to see some form of minion customization if areanet is going to keep this concept of permanent minions we might as well customize them .. maybe unlock more customizations through quests .. drops .. or item store. Like different skins for minions and maybe slight variations on attack (adds a condition but decreases dmg) things like that.

I personally think that they haven’t even touched the surface of what death magic could be.

I would rather they just remove DS all together since it seems it’s Anet all around excuse for why necro’s are so underpowered atm. I think ppl wouldn’t mind terribly if DS was reworked as a mechanic if it meant we’d get all around better skill damage and utilities and improved CC and escape mechanisms instead ..

Maybe give us a better class mechanics more in tune with our profession .. what is DS anyways, lore wise? Instead of DS, give us a necro mechanics similiar to mesmers but with undead minions ..

We could still have the more powerful (read much more powerful than now) minions as slotted utility skills for those that want to play as a minion master ..

Agreed, minions as of now do not do nearly enough to warrant occupying precious utility slots.

Also we currently lack a standard infantry mele minion like we had in gw1 .. The bone minions of gw1 filled this role .. we have no equivalent in gw2 atm since the bone minions of gw2 are just meant to be disposable bombs. .

I think people are more upset that they’ve turned the cool / evil looking bone minions from gw1 into pathetic bunnies in gw2.

Remember how the minions looked in gw1? The bone minions had cool bone grafted blades attached instead of hands. In gw2 we get freakin’ undead rabbits / rats. This to a class that is supposed to be evil / sinister?

A necro’s minions should look menacing / intimidating .. not like you’ve raised your little sisters cherished pets into undeath! lol

I have previously suggested that they could partially solve this by introducing more skins (evil / cooler looking) for your minions that you could unlock through quests / drops or through the item store. I would gladly pay in order to get a much more intimidating looking minions than the rather unimpressive ones we have access to as of now . .

That is if MM build will ever be viable again in gw2 . .

I’ve never seen a developer patronize an entire community of players like that before. wow. Anet, really? So 95% of the necro community has no clue how to play the class and needs to l2p . . that’s his professional opinion?

alanis.6094:

He also mentions that he wants to give Necro’s better options for power builds, which are really (aside from bugged traits/abilities that most professions have) the only major issue we have.

The only real issue? .. How about a viable MM build? .. how about sub par damage on 80% of our skills? .. how about lowest running fear in the game, despite being told pre launch that fear was a necro unique condition? Yeah right . .

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/I-play-a-necro-but-I-traid-a-warrior-for-one-play-session/first

.. scroll down a bit

Yeah, I’m actually still in shock after reading that one. I can’t belive a developer from Anet is that short sighted as to be patronizing to the whole necro community .. he basically said “necro’s are hard to play, if you’re not doing well with the necro it’s because you haven’t mastered Death Shroud yet.” Or basically “l2p, necros are fine”

What kind of unprofessional attitude is that? Anet, I’m deeply dissapointed in you.

Did he just say what I think he said? Did he really just tell the necro community that “the necro is fine, l2p” and this is from a developer! WTF, kitten unprofessional ..

In my opinion minions take up too many utility slots for what they do atm . . I’d suggest not having the generally weaker minions take up utility slots and instead be a class feature .. like death shroud seperate buttons or similiar to mesmers illusion system .. we could still have powerful minions like flesh golem etc as utilty / elite slots. This way we wouldn’t be sacrificing as many utility slots and our utility slots would actually be for utility .. Unslotted minions would obviously be weaker than slotted ones.

• Minions need to regen out of combat.

• Slotted utility minions need a health boost (shouldn’t die in one – two hits) and if
  they were designed to have low hp like the bone minions, the cooldown should be
  lower

• Generally the cd should be lower on all minions .. they are expendable – so it
  shouldn’t cost that much to have them die.

• Minion design should be more intimidating (what’s up with the undead bunnies,
  looking at you bone minion, and jagged horror) Instead of bunnies I suggest remaking them into undead hounds of war.

• Minion Masters should get more utility skills / weapon skills that affect minions .. maybe a skill that sends your minions into a frenzy (increasing dmg and speed etc)
  skills that heal your minions (maybe by damaging you, like in gw1)

• Minions damage should scale with necromancer’s stats.

• Shadow fiends haunt, should do increased damage and have lower / instant cast time.

Also someone suggested we should get more weapon abilities where we actually sent temporary minions to attack our enemies, then despawn. Somewhat like the witchdoctor in diablo.

then you haven’t played structured pvp or played any other class for that matter .. a necro has trouble killing mobs a few lvls above them, but warriors for instance mows through groups of mobs with breeze. Mobs that are maybe 2-3 lvls above them and still come out with 80% hp or more.

We did? Did they post something?

wait what?.. Is there any way to get a hold of it?

I agree Zao, I was a bit taken aback by their attitude as well. I expected more from Anet ..

Enzo Kensei.9850:

I think we all see the necro as a condition/ minion master guy, not some rampage guy that destroys everything in its path. Necromancer in Gw2 would be cool to have more related weapon skills that involve summoning minions to attack the target and spamming conditions while maintain the high hp pool. Think as 3 skills in the 5 of the weapon skills involve sending minions to attack the target and then disappeard, while the other 2 skill could be the same as we have, the condition dmg..i think that woul be better than the current minions that we have…
I think it would be an awesome update on the necro, what do you guys think?

That could actually work, you mean like the witch doctor in diablo? (zombie bears, haha!) I still hope we could get real minions if we spec for it though (minion master) !