Guild Wars 2

Yup, the whole debate of EU>NA or NA>EU is a moot one. But in terms of decency and fair-play, we can all conclude as of these results: EU>NA.

That being said, I’ve heard top NA teams are abusing the leaderboard to have Anet fix it… which is like killing people to show the government it should be punished & illegal.

sinject.4607:

Scrapper or Durability, imo the latter is the better of the two.
Pack is good, but the sustain from the above sets outweighs the damage from Pack.

^ This comment is selected as the best answer. Moving on.

Haptic Repulse.9437:

bliss.4305:

Scrappers with Stealth Gyro are very annoying to duel. If only they didn’t have a ton of ways to reset fights… Especially the low downtime of Stealth Gyro, chained with stealthed heal, and you’ve got yourself an impossible duel.

I constantly duel against my guildie (who I think plays really well) and I’m doing everything right (dodging reveals, restealthing, stun breaks, timed bursts – you name it). Result is a stale-mate until our food wears off… God forbid if thief/daredevil actually sucked, it would be a swift and easy win for the scrapper. That’s how much of a counter they are to our class. No arguments.

Personally I find the stealth heal to be incredibly annoying when combined with gyro, it seems nearly impossible to kill them and with that combo you can’t even interrupt their already very high healing potential.

Yup. Good scrappers really have tons of ways to cover their kitten. Stealth Gyro is fine as is, but its downtime is VERY low. The duration is 30 seconds. The downtime is 30 seconds. And they can aggressively use it to reveal→stealth→reveal→stealth and keep pressure up.

I doubt anything will change though, Irenio is basing all his Scrapper development on PvE, since that game mode seems to be what matters for more than half of the development team.

^ He says “critical damage treshold”.

If you don’t mind costly food for WvW, you could make use of the Furious Sharpening Stone (+100 toughness & + ferocity for 10% of your total toughness). This gives A LOT of crit dmg , and compensates for the loss of power. This should get you to at least 200 crit dmg, which I think is a sweet spot.

On a side note, I would definitely lower some toughness if I were you. You have too much of it and you’re still very susceptible to condition damage as toughness does nothing to counter it.

Just replace your trinkets to be berserker, replace some gear into Valkyrie and try to get toughness through the food I recommended. ~2200/2300 armor is what you want. More is a big damage/HP sacrifice.

Scrappers with Stealth Gyro are very annoying to duel. If only they didn’t have a ton of ways to reset fights… Especially the low downtime of Stealth Gyro, chained with stealthed heal, and you’ve got yourself an impossible duel.

I constantly duel against my guildie (who I think plays really well) and I’m doing everything right (dodging reveals, restealthing, stun breaks, timed bursts – you name it). Result is a stale-mate until our food wears off… God forbid if thief/daredevil actually sucked, it would be a swift and easy win for the scrapper. That’s how much of a counter they are to our class. No arguments.

DeceiverX.8361:

That’s the big thing; setup and risk don’t seem to outweigh the benefits.

This isn’t just about Vault, either.

Unrelenting Assault, Gun Flame, True Shot, Unload, and Faith offer similar or better damage yet do so with huge additional benefits such as range and finishers, evades, AOE/piercing, or similar or lower cooldowns.

I have issues with buffing the damage on backstab because frankly right now I think there are way too many abilities than can one-shot kill people or close to it. Backstab was the king in the regard for low-cooldown and low-telegraph single-hit damage, but it’s no longer the case by a mile. Doing so also used to bring quite the cost to the thief; if you wanted to do extreme damage, you had to spec deep into damage and make huge defensive sacrifices. I think a lot of the one-shot skills right now are extremely forgiving to use and work in very defensive build paths. sPvP finally picked up some pace but rather than just adjusting amulets, they brought in busted skill damage ratios, so the extreme power creep has massively affected WvW in a negative way, and has rendered a lot of big-play skills as simply poor.

Couldn’t agree more with this. They’re balancing all parts of the game through coefficients (which are universal for all game modes) instead of taking advantage of the amulet system… what a horrible way to handle balance, yet its still how they approach to things.

I’ve probably reported this 2 times over the past few weeks but haven’t gotten any response to it. Either its working “as intended” or they don’t care. Here’s why:

Probably they’ve coded the damage as “direct-damage” inflicted by self. Since any direct damage inflicted in stealth is supposed to reveal thief, this also works the same way.

I’m not an expert, but I don’t think it would be too hard to classify this skill as condition damage (since it actually “ticks” after a while, so even the term is justified) to completely resolve the issue.

I like the unblockable idea but not to this extend. With the proposed changes (5 unblockable attacks), we’d completely destroy guardian-dragonhunter classes. Although I really think we need some offensive attributes that make the class more appealing for others to take for their team.

I would love if our backstabs and “Stealth” attacks would be unblockable for a start. Would be horrible if it was tied down to a trait as then you’d have to go for that traitline to make use of it. Just a simple addition to all our stealth attacks would make it work.

Auesis.7301:

Yup, this is unfortunately the case It’s a bit of pressure off of the duration spreads, though. Now I have 100% of both Poison and Bleed without too much sacrifice in to Viper.

Current setup is now Rune of Krait, Sigil of Venom + Malice (to max bleed and get some more Torment and Burn/Confusion from finishers), Viper’s Head/Chest/Legs/Daggers, Sinister everything else.

Hi,

I’m also recently specced into Venomshare as power based thieves don’t look like it will make it in the roster for raids. I have to say, condi works great for PvE and I’m having fun with it.

I also tested the bleed and poison difference and realized how high poison damage ticks with Deadly Arts traits. So I grabbed 6 Rune of Thorns and had exactly the same numbers as your old build. I was also getting 20k ticks in 5-man fractals with self buffs etc easily during spreads but I’ve noticed how low the bleed was ticking and how fast the stacks for disappearing.

Have you noticed your damage increase when you swapped to Krait? Obviously, with Thorns it was an overkill duration on Poison, but I really like the potential of that 6th set bonus (a possibility to get 100-150 condition damage easily in a raid setup)… and it was around 12g investment… Feels heartbroken swapping it for Krait set which adds up to 10 silver of investment xD

Anyway, should I also swap my runes to Krait? Did you see a damage increase after doing so?

To be honest, there’s no reason for our class mechanic to be our Grandmaster traits… Make the kitten dodges toggle-able outside of combat (which would be an amazing QoL change as well), and make new GM traits. Hell, move the condi cleanse there, I don’t know…

I’m actually on the verge of experiencing this as a full Soldier Daredevil /w staff. The idea is to have a durable, non-crit thief with A LOT of evades and on-demand mobility (to move the boss around).

I’m still on the gear investment process but if it does work out the way I picture it, you can be sure I’ll make a post with all details about it on Reddit and here.

Hi everyone o/

With HoT, the “meta” for all game modes have changed. While this is all great, the majority of the Thief community believe its been for the worse.
While I think “Daredevil” has spiced things up, it feels like in all game modes the class suffers and could use a slight push to make it more in line with the rest of the bunch.
Now, unless they balance the 3 game modes (WvW/PvE/PvP) seperately, the only way I see this happening is through a change of our resource system; the initiative.

Most classes are balanced around consuming their weapon/kit/attunement skills. And its arranged conveniently so that once you cycle through 1 set and move on to the other, the previous weapon recharges at least half of those weapon skills.
Thieves, however, have 2 weapon sets that share the same resource pool. Yes, we don’t have cooldown on skills, but most of our key abilities are on such high initiative cost that once we consume our initiative, we have a lot of downtime to fill in with our “auto-attacks”.

Although it looks like a solid system, I believe due to the slow regeneration and very limited ways to regain initiative, we hit a brick wall, as auto attack damage isn’t nearly fast or effective enough to compensate for that downtime. To compensate this I have 2 different suggestions:

1) Weapon auto attacks recharge initiative.

I strongly believe, simply adding initiative regain on our weapon auto attacks while keeping the regular initiative regeneration would definitely be a positive step for the Thief class in general. Obviously, the numbers should be adjusted according to the weapon set… fast and single attacks like Shortbow or Pistol main hand will recharge 1 initiative, while Dagger and Sword will recharge a bulk of initiative (lets say 2 or 3 respectively) on their 3rd skill chain.

-PvE would get a HUGE boost, as you’d actively reduce the downtime of initiative with the filler auto attacks. Scripted monsters have very few evade/block mechanics and its very easy to get the chains off to reliably help this happen.

-PvP wouldn’t be affected in a broken way at all, since many players actively avoid getting hit from thieves and the amount of auto attacks you’ll chain back to back would mean you’d risk exposing yourself to more attacks… a.k.a. high risk, high reward

-WvW would be affected more or less in the same way as PvP, thus would be fine.

2) Weapon swap regenerates ALL initiative in combat. (EXCEPT duplicate weapon sets).

OK… Before you go WTFASDSDASDWDQWEKKDAJLHL… Think about it for just one second. You will get full initiative bar for your new weapon set, eliminating the uselessness of weapon swap on low initiative: Opens up more exciting gameplay and weapon set combinations, for ALL game modes:

-PvE would benefit from a lot of weapon set combinations and this would also eliminate the downtime of initiative system. We’d have more consistent DPS with each weapon swap, putting our damage output on par with other classes.

-PvP would definitely be harder to balance with this proposal, but as it appears to many people (including the top-tier PvP players) we’re falling back on this game mode greatly, when classes such as Dragon Hunter, Revenant, Reaper, Chronomancer (basically almost all classes) have more use to the team than just high mobility +1 and decaps.

-WvW would be affected more or less in the same way as PvP, thus would be fine.

Now out of these 2 ideas, I won’t lie, 2nd one is going to be much harder to balance out for PvP purposes… but given the “state of the class” we hear every single day since the decline of this class, I’d say it may just be the thing to put us on par with the power creep. Meanwhile, 1st suggestion is a lot more tamer and smooth to implement and we’d see instant improvement that might just make it.

TL;DR: Initiative system creates a lot of downtime and doesn’t synergize well with weapon swap. We need supplementary mechanics to compensate this. Look at point 1 and 2.

edited for formatting

Looking forward to your comments. Thank you.

Some of my most fun and interesting fights took place in enemy BLs since release. EB is as stale and boring as ever.

Yes, finding fights are difficult compared to EB but you actually have to know your way around and use the minimap to spot people close to sentries. New maps are a ton of fun if you know your way around it. And the mid fights? Freaking old-school World pvp… Amazing.

Then again… I’m T1 and we have a lot of players doing WvW…. so there’s that

It was actually kind of weird as you stressed out zero stealth capability so many times in your post and I’m looking at D/P…. then looking at Bounding Dodger… and like Wut o.O

Now it all makes sense

Wait did a Reaper die as of HoT?! /kappa

Sorry but I can’t take a build without Shortbow seriously in sPvP. I could see this working in low MMR Soloqueues as a brawler, semi-bunker though.

Obviously it depends on opponent thief’s weapon set. Also all dodges have a very small frame you can take advantage of. Learn the animations greatly. Same goes with staff #5. You can actually interrupt that before the damage goes off during the animation.

It all boils down to that 1 instinct dodge that turns the tables/wins the fight.

Chicago Jack.5647:

In terms of intricacies? I’d probably chalk the most intricacies up to the Ranger class. Everyone says power ranger is boring, but there are so many subtle micro enhancements a person can make when they play ranger. Meh, whatever.

Ahahahahahahahahah

Wow man… tears… literally tears

<3

Apparently Leagues will have a punishment system coming with it for Leavers. You could possibly still AFK without getting punished for it though…

Pvp is in such a horrible state atm, I don’t blame people for leaving/afking/committing suicide anymore.

Kitten… Its almost exactly my build with small changes. Great minds think alike

Having extreme success with this build so far. The sustain tradeoff from DA is worth with DD elements. The damage might seem low without DA or CS but its actually ridiculously high. DD Pulmonary + havoc mastery and bound dmg % ALL add up to insane bursts.

A few things I’ve alternated: Valkyrie Amulet. The HP difference might be little (to Marauder) but the Ferocity + Power difference makes up for some INSANE bursts. You rely on Bounding Dodger for crits since you run around ~25% crit rate with Fury up. However, since you just get in – spike – get out, you don’t need to rely on such sustained crit rate. Bound and DD runes get the job done.

Utilities: Screw Shadow Refuge. Scrappers, Revenants… every class reveal on demand now. Blinding Powder with Black Powder works much better. Shadow Refuge is very hard to work with using Daredevil dodges (except Dash but even that’s not easy to work with). For the 3rd utility Bandit’s Defense or Signet of Agility work great.

Heal: I go with Channeled Vigor. Low CD. Fast cast time… Never got interrupted using it so far since you can easily BP + dodge for unintteruptable (nearly) stealths → heal. If you’re full on endurance heals for an insane amount and fills HALF (1,5 dodges) of your endurance bar. Insanely good.

Sigils: Energy + Air/Hydromancy for SB, Force + Air for D/P. Force adds more % damage increase to the Pulmonary impact and backstabs etc so I found the flat damage increase incredibly valuable. This section is subject to personal taste so anything that rocks your boat…

Anyway. Spot on build Kreep. Was expecting this to be the meta since my last build after trait-revamp ended up meta as well… but I’m selfish and actually wanted to keep this one under ma blanket. This post makes me happy and mad at the same time.

Oh and stream more you pleb.

<3

-mistermeta

Everything you pointed out works for ANY teleport in the game (granted the range allows for it):

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Teleport

Seriously…. get a clue before you embarrass yourself.

Jana.6831:

And I’m pretty sure that thieves will die out in competitive mode anyway.

-a future far far close-

“Oh you got legendaries eh? Kitten please, I’m a thief… I AM legendary.”

Sigh… don’t know if I should feel sad or special

Jana.6831:

bliss.4305:

Incinerator to be… basically just another thief (possibly a bad one, too). Seriously, are they handing out Incinerators to all newly created thieves as a compensation for their horrible choice of class now?

So you assume that I’m a new horrible thief? I don’t really get where you’re coming from, sorry =)

Nah, its just that so many thieves actually own an Incinerator, the chances of running into a bad one (since most legendary owners are SW monkeys – except a few) is much higher than running into a good one Simple logic really.

Zero Day.2594:

Can this please be a thing. I want to get reimbursed for wasting my time on the thief. And I prefer bolt as my means of compensation.

Pssst…I heard one of the “iterations” to HoT will be a Rev-o-matic for Thieves who want to return their potato-class and get a shiny Revenant in return! Wait for it.

MUDse.7623:

as this is now in thief forum n not in pvp forum anymore..
i do think a daredevil in the right hands playing em is fine in WvW roaming , dunno ’bout spvp or pve.
i actually didnt want to play thief after HoT launch but kitten many ppl say thief is superbad atm i couldnt resist but checkin it myself, so i upgraded my thief to daredevil n roamed a few h n then recorded every encounter i had within 30 min roaming. i made alot of mistakes (like just using my steal at start of fights instead as an interrupt and to get the additional dogge/initative). but i do think if a good thief (im experienced but not good ) would be playing in my stead he would have won every fight but the last one. ( ofc the opponents were not good, but well thats actually what u meet in wvw)

i think if u buff thief and so the daredevil a good daredevil could become OP in wvw roaming(not that it was balanced anytime). so in my opinion u rather need to cut down other classes to get the thief on their level again.

edit: i would like to be able to use staff skills + shadowstepping skills -somehow doesnt work for me

I’m pretty sure killing Aurora Glade plebs don’t constitute to the viability of Daredevil. The fact that you’re landing all those Vaults isn’t even suprising, its a testament to how bad your opponents are.

You actually want recognition for pulling off 1v1 against those joystick users? Here’s your cookie. You wouldn’t last beyond your spawn if you were on Deso.

o/

Incinerator to be… basically just another thief (possibly a bad one, too). Seriously, are they handing out Incinerators to all newly created thieves as a compensation for their horrible choice of class now?

Bolt to be… well actually its a fine weapon if you can tolerate the rough lightning animations and a weapon set with sword… Yuck.

Now Quip, on the other had, would obviously be the choice of any winner. Even with H.O.P.E. now as an alternative.

Quip is <3, Quip is life.

messiah.1908:

bliss.4305:

Sorry but I had to stop after seeing your duels with the Warrior and shortly after Necro. My conclusion:

Build is bad, opponents are bad, you are bad.

Don’t take it personally, thief & daredevil are both in a bad spot. But this video contributes to nothing of significance in terms of high-end pvp gameplay or the viability of thief in the pvp scene.

you know how many vids i see out there which makes me think the enemies are bad. all the wvw duels pretty much against bad players. and why? cuase thief in a bad spot.
i just try to take the p/p and clean of the dust of it. and it works.
i duel against my friends who were +500 rank and i consider good players. and it works and sometimes it just dont.

for high end i state p/p wont make it there and probably/maybe thief either.

but thanks for your comments.

also edit:

i didnt try to make you think this build is op rather how it works. you can take it from here and make it better if you think you can.
p/p lack of stealth and now it has.
condi cleanse as you can see i trasfer torment. cleanse some condis etc.
the burst from range 7k dmg 50% hp etc…
the blind spamming and more

remember almost no one played p/p for 3 years…. what you expect…..

I’m actually very sorry about my previous post… It wasn’t supposed to be for this thread.

I just had 2 different P/P thief threads open and I watched a horrible one and by mistake commented on yours. Your build and gameplay is a million times better.

Just to reference on that horrid video, will link it here:

http://youtu.be/Tyw_eJwGKfk

^ This was the one I was supposed to bash Will remove my previous comment.

Again, sorry for the confusion. Thumbs up for the effort to make p/p viable

Sorry but I had to stop after seeing your duels with the Warrior and shortly after Necro. My conclusion:
Build is bad, opponents are bad, you are bad.
Don’t take it personally, thief & daredevil are both in a bad spot. But this video contributes to nothing of significance in terms of high-end pvp gameplay or the viability of thief in the pvp scene.

Exactly! They might as well rename Thief sub forum into “Trash” since that’s exactly what they’ve turned the class and sub forum into xD

Loboling.5293:

I rerolled from engie to Thief. I also played a mesmer in preperation for expansion, but didn’t want to hunt hero points on my mesmer, so I went in to the jungle as a Thief.

Having fun so far.

Don’t know if you’ve actually seen the [PvP] on the title… This thread has no place for happy-little-pve-person’s opinions. Nobody gives a kitten’s kitten about the jungle.

Roaming is so much fun in the new maps. It feels like I’m on an epic journey to find my long lost brother.

It takes SO long to find people to fight in these new maps, we actually cheer and hug each other instead of fighting now. Overall I like this pacifistic approach. Clearly new maps are to make friends with other servers now

Love thy neighbour <3

I’m looking forward to have an NPC that takes this class and converts it to a Revenant. I mean isn’t that what they do with broken items and such in the game? :o

Maybe for some laurels and gold sink? No? Anyone?

An actual objective and statistical analysis pointing out very serious concerns on how elite specializations are outshining their predecessors completely.

Expect nothing to be done about it. Its just too logical and constructive for Anet to listen to. Now if it was about PvE……. everyone in Anet office would drop their coffees to look into it.

Pimsley.3681:

They seem to become less revenant with each update…blablabla….

^ Fixed it for ya.

Don’t worry though, join us thieves in the guild hall tavern. I actually believe Anet designed that place for this particular reason. For classes like Thieves and Warriors who’re made irrelevant with HoT drink their problems away

Magic Toker on Revenant, Caed on Ranger… I have no doubt Sindrener will follow with something viable pretty soon. Surely if those WTS-level all-time-thieves reroll, I can see worse thieves joining the bandwagon.

Which means any thief/daredevil remotely interested in competitive PvP taking their luggage and moving to another class that actually doesn’t give you diarrhea to be effective.

So what is it?

*Disclaimer: I’m actually quite sad being this negative about the class. Nobody wants their favorite class which they’ve invested in for 3 years, ruined for the game mode they actually cared. A big hug to all thieves who feel the same.

Let’s change the topic into is Thief/Daredevil viable, shall we?

Answer: Its SO viable, top 2 NA thieves switched from Thief to Revenant and Ranger.

I feel sad for my 3 year main class… RIP

BrunoBRS.5178:

bliss.4305:

Too lazy to quote who’ve disagreed…

And someone actually argues Vault should remain unchainable with Steal and that’s what Bound is for… I would seriously like to see you hit anyone with basic understanding of PvP without chaining Vault to a teleport/teleport+daze combo. Well, maybe afk, lagging or upleveled players then. Good enough, right?

anyone “with basic understanding” of the game would understand why a ground targeted leap can’t be chained with a teleport. it has nothing to do with them not wanting it. try using cluster bomb on your feet then using shadowstep before you fire the projectile.

and with a 3/4 cast time, vault is pretty reliable to hit now. just count the dodges. i’d still rather have it be a mobility skill, because vertical movement is only really critical in specific situations.

How nice of you to lecture someone on how skills technically work. Ironically it backs up my argument more than it does yours.

What happens when you cluster bomb and teleport right after is it instantly hits where you aim. If you’ve aimed at your target and hit cluster bomb, and then right away teleport, it hits your own feet – which is also your target (since you’ve teleported). There are of course limitations to this. If the range of your teleport is longer than the range of the skill you execute (cluster bomb – in this case), the projectile is thrown “backwards”.

So in fact, on a technical point of view, Vault CAN work in exact same fashion. Its not a technicality, its just not done yet and I think it should, to increase value in a very slow and telegraphed skill.

Reem.3578:

Imo it just looks like thief’s being balanced around what the best thieves would theoretically be able to do… the ones who’re so skilled with the class they appear OP, the ones who just know everything about the class and make it work so perfectly…

This is the sad reality of thief. Its fair to conclude thief will never feel effective or good for a casual player with no devotion to the class to improve.

However, its also sad that some classes – you know which ones – are getting away with being tweaked with cries of casuals. I mean seriously… Scrapper reveal? Did Engineers REALLY needed more counterplay* to stealth? Really Irenio?

*ironic ’cause nobody knows/cares to exploit the existing counterplays to stealth or thus needing a “hard counter” like reveal.

-_-

Sir Vincent III.1286:

*snip *

I don’t understand that kind of logic… How are you more susceptible to pressure when the heal amount is exactly the same (be it having 20k hp or 10k hp…) You’re under the exact same pressure as the HP that needs to be shaved to get you down is precisely the same.

That being said, low HP and heal synergy is something to consider. Seeing, there are abilities like Heartseeker or traits like Executioner which benefit your opponent on the % of your health, is it better to have a lower health pool so heal pushes you above those tresholds?

The math would probably drive me insane but regardless, I believe the HP sweetspot for thieves will always be sliiiiiightly above a full-burst from other stealthed classes to have at least a form of counter to being ganked (which is around 15-17k depending on your level of toughness – at its current state).

If you have low MMR: Pray they’re a pve guild/group that want to complete pvp dailes or for whatever reason choose to play pvp at that time.

If you have high MMR: Do your best and try to enjoy the match while expecting a loss. Lose – and you’ve already expected it. Win – feel awesome about yourself and sorry for the opponent team.

I’m so glad these runes will never go live. Sorry OP, continue being a gamer and gamer only. No hard feelings <3

Highlie.7641:

Bliss thief’s are not vaible,

Look go roll Cs/DA/Tr with s/d pick every burst/damage trait. Then go find a ranger.
On a pure glass build you will crit them for 600 damage, with 20 stacks of might (s.Trap, Signet, you will crit them for 1500-2000,) Now factor in the Healing, and regin, and passives on that ranger.

Do try again. but be warned i have over 3 year’s on my thief, i can assure you all you ain’t going to win this argument whatever delusional methods you fabricate are going to fall short.

So let me get this straight:

You want me to roll a completely garbage and YOLO traitline (cs/da/tr s/d set) pick nothing for defense (full burst), find a class that is innately better at countering us on 1v1 (ranger) and expect to fail? Well gee Sherlock!

You’ve contributed to nothing but your own exposure of inexperience. 3 years well wasted sir. Slow clap.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

The deciding factor for me between Vitality vs Toughness is based on which heal I take.

Right now I have Withdraw almost all the time so I lean towards more Vitality.

When I used to take Hide in Shadows, I focused more on Toughness to allow the regen to have better effective heal. Coupled with Shadow Arts, the high toughness allowed me to roam even with 10k health — but that’s a long time ago.

To be honest, I’m suprised you don’t go the opposite way around, considering HiS has a higher base heal value and an additional heal over time value, meaning with a higher health pool, you could use more room to make mistakes and heal back to 100%.

With withdraw, lets say if you had 10k hp, you’d heal half of it up. If you have 20k Hp, you’d heal 1/4 up, meaning the lower HP you have the more “effective” withdraw is (although its totally not and its just an illusion :p)

The trick here is to use your heal potential to a maximum and not “waste” your heal by limiting it to your HP. So, if you’ve lost around 3k HP and you lose Withdraw, you “waste” less heal compared to same situation using HiS… Hope that makes some sense at least -_-’’

That being said, since cooldown of Withdraw is just too freaking low compared to HiS, in both scenarios I’d argue it’s the Best-in-Slot heal for thieves anyway.

Well, just my opinion anyways :p

Too lazy to quote who’ve disagreed…

People who’ve argued Vault damage could further be sacrificed to have more mobility support on it: As long as it doesn’t allow a larger vertical movement, staff is doomed to be the trash that it is for our #2 weapon set for competitive games. Period.

And someone actually argues Vault should remain unchainable with Steal and that’s what Bound is for… I would seriously like to see you hit anyone with basic understanding of PvP without chaining Vault to a teleport/teleport+daze combo. Well, maybe afk, lagging or upleveled players then. Good enough, right?

Also please check Bound and Vault in detail before comparing them to an equal standard. They simply are not.

Thanks o/

IchigoHatake.5098:

I use vamp runes because it’s a life saver, I realized that with vamp I can pretty much beat any thief i face. The health leeching is also pretty nice. I mean I can hit incredibly high stats: high armor, high power, high crit, high ferocity, 15k vitality, but then you would have to use signets and critical strikes (trickery and deadly arts for d/p is pretty much a must, I feel like i need shadow arts for condi removal) :P so that isn’t really an option.

This new build now has 2 extra valkyrie gear to get me up to 15k hp I lowered my crit to 37%, but it doesn’t matter I can get fury easily, with fury I will have around 60% crit anymore would give a diminishing return. http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZEQNAoaVl0MhSnY5Tw7Jw/EHwEkPNnpN8eEjdoTQA2NA-TlCEABLqCjvKx8Z/BCOBAJq+wWKBZS5hBPAg20HAwRAIAwBwv9tv/G45nf+5nPvf/93f/93SBonSL-w

Well get ready to be stomped by everyone else ’cause come HoT, Anet is removing the crutch for newbs, that is Vampirism mist form.

:*

rennlc.7346:

It’s a crit build that doesn’t produce those obnoxiously big numbers over your opponent’s head. It hits like an SA build without all that goody-goody team support. Not sure when to use Steal and get the most out of Bountiful Theft? Tired of Vampirism Runes saving your life in critical situations? Not sure when to use signet of agility or blinding powder? Are you happy to lose but just don’t want to push as many buttons or die in several hits before the end arrives? I’ve got the selfishly crafted, moderately damaging build for you! AND IT’S GOT 25K HP!

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAoaVl0MhunYjTw0Jw/EHwElPMij2YfBL3gqTgAIDA-TpBFwACOEAEOBAYLDs4IAA4BAsb/BA

(Many animals were harmed within the several minutes spent in constructing this build. Mourn them. Mourn them hard.)

Funny… I’ve actually made a soldier thief build with Intelligence sigils that worked just as well for trolling… Definitely interesting to try but inevitably inferior than its “try-hard” counter parts (aka meta builds):

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAoaVl0MhynYpTw7Jw/EHwEiP9528ex2pTEIDA-TpRBwAX3f4yDAocZAQHCANHBAAnAAA

RevanCorana.8942:

We Nerf As One – Chapter 2

Get a calculator dude d/p thieves have perma stealth without using utilities
With all 3 lowest cooldown traps you’ll get just slightly over 50% stealth uptime
Not to mention traps reveal you because they deal damage…
And 0 breakstun have fun

Heck if they add trapper rune to pvp they could as well fix frost trap missing first tick.

Trap thief are you kidding…

Get a grip dude, because you’re clearly clueless:

1) D/P thieves can’t possibly perma-stealth without using any utilities. Do that, record it and share with us so we see as well. So far, you can only stack 4 stealths, then 2 and you’re out of initiative. When you use your utilities to perma-stealth, you’re basically not being an asset to your team at all and using your only defensive skills to remain unseen. Has absolutely no benefit aside from being permanently invisible.

2) With 3 lowest cooldown traps + Trapper Rune + D/P you CAN get permanent stealth uptime. You can just spam traps in between D/P stealth stacking and remain in stealth.

3) Traps don’t reveal you when they deal damage. Any DIRECT damage reveals you through stealth. Conditions that are applied through traps are not revealing and that’s the WHOLE POINT.

4) Yes, I’ve mentioned there are ways to counter permanent stealth uptime of Trapper rune condition based trap thieves with the use of Reveals and getting damaged inside Black Powder… but there are still ways to counter being stunned as a thief (hint: steal)

Before you lecture people, at least know that what you said isn’t complete BS so you won’t get ridiculed like this in the future.

vespers.1759:

if they don’t give us an option to never touch the action camera I will likely never play again.

I don’t know what you’re saying… They make it a toggle-able option completely activated on preference.

If you like what you had, great… you’ll still have it. If you like what they’re implementing, great… you can start using it after HoT.

The system is nothing but a positive change and hope it will make the content Gw2 provides more immersive and engaging.

laquito.5269:

I don’t think anybody can truly keep up a winrate of more than 60% by solo queing at the moment, no matter how good they are. This system just stacks odds against you to make you lose. GW2 isn’t CSGO, you’re dependent on your team and just can’t carry whole matches like in CSGO.

Even the top tier players start to lose quite frequently when they’re not grouping up, just watch their streams, as soon as they que alone they have the same problems as everyone else.

Unless they have incredibly bad team mates, I’ve seen most established top-pvp streamers literally shoulder the games to victory. So I don’t agree with that whole statement.

Trevor Boyer.6524:

This is all wrong:

• People who mainly solo que are the ones who get 45% win rates because solo que is volatile with DCs, raggers, quitters and otherwise kittenty situations that you are placed in, including being placed against ->
• Five man premades who get get 60%+ win rates because they always play in teams which eliminates DCs, raggers, quitters, bad comps in general. It gives the advantage of mass voice chat communication and team cohesion that is built over the course of time of playing with the same people.

It doesn’t matter how good you are as a solo, within your MMR bracket, due to the random circumstances that you risk while you que solo, you will get bellow 50% unless you are very vey lucky.

This, infact is all wrong. It was confirmed by Anet that the matchmaking is trying its best to simulate a 50% W/L ratio. You can get a higher ratio on soloqueue if you in fact play well and shoulder your team to victory. Yes, having a team guarantees not having DCs, ragequitters yadayada… but over the course of 10k + games, those don’t even matter enough to bend the average 1%.

Most ESL players, from what I’ve seen avoid queuing 5man simply because it takes them 30 minutes to get queues otherwise.. They still maintain their 60-70% win/loss percentage simply because they play exceptionally well.

Maybe your observations hold true on low-MMR matches, but on top MMR matches where you wait 5min+ for soloqueue, I rarely even come across DCs. Must be lucky

Nocta.5274:

I just feel like Vamp runes is a big part of why Thief can currently engage in some fights they couldn’t without them.

^ This is true.

Vamp rune and Marauder Amulet are quite vital in the survivability department for thieves. Thieves have stealth and ports to actively negate damage done, however there are no passive procs to save their butts in case of focus-fired.

Unfortunately majority of the classes in competitive pvp do have passive defense, hence losing the passive defense of Vamp rune will not affect them in the same level.