I am totally ok with your Ranger/War/Ingi proposed changes. Maybe you can cut the resistance or the condi removal (ire purification build is insane -3 condi dispelled each 4 sec). Also cut the dh traps (not normal that an utilitary has so much impact on the game).
For the necro, i have to say NO. Actually reaper has a really high cleave dps, maybe less mobility. But if you give to a classe, unblokable skills, boons corrupt, ton of condi, best dps, and now a lot of survavility so you create a monster. Reaper is fine, even more if war/dh will be down (a lot of defense/heals in zerk builds).
Just see the tempest/reaper combo. One heal the other destroy all the oponents.
Do you knoW that necro has unblokable marks, fear, daze, shout makes unblokable with 6 sec so what the prob with bloks for you? There is evades for thief and 1 immune for the mesmer (4 sec) so i think your death shroud can handle it.
Also you have one of the best power and condi damage. Just make you unblokable wait 4 sec and kitten all of mesmer/thief you see.
Better, tag with a tempest friend healer. You will become the incarnation of death in the match .
Totally agree. Power/condi berserk and power dh are too Op. They had complain a lot in the begining of the xpac about being too underpowered now they are top we listen nobody asking for a nerf.
I try a war, first damage, first heal near each match.
I try a dh, same result.
The frustration is that when i play war or dh i have to play normally, without concentration to have nice reward. But when i play mesmer, thief, i can be 10 times more concentrate, skilled, the result will be less rewarding.
It’s time to do something, cut the damage, healing or up the other professions!
I don’t have very many good things to say about balance these year.
1.This worst year to main ele – whole year was non-stop nerfing to point of almost extinction in solo q – if not used against specific team/rotation class handicaps whole team
2.Anet still experiments on with mega buffs and over nerfs
3.NO build diversity
4.Less amulets to play – the newest are pure garbageLeague by itself improved over the year but anet seems to have still some important things to solve:
1.how to keep ranked populated
2.how to make yeach division satisfying so people would be content with it or want to improve – not bash constantly with mmr hell .
3.how to make each class to have at least one optimal build.
4.how implement new maps in ranked (capricon and skyhammer are ok…can’t say about coliseum).
5.how to deal with trending classes (class that was buffed and easy to play so you meet at least 2 of it in your and enemy team).
That’s not constructive. You don’t understand the philosophy of this thread. I would prefer to read.
What they did wrong about the ele?
Nerfing it to the ground, without reasonnable role in the team.
What they did right?
They stop the mandatory ele. Because during the 3 first seasons, tempest were everywhere. Not 4 tempest per team, but 1-2 have a mandatory place in each team. The sustain team was increadible. So they reduce well this king ele place.
How they can improve ele?
By working on stats, maybe by improving some power or condi builds.
Edit: the ele suggestions are just example to show you what’s a constructive answer.
Not so hyped for this one. I cant imagine the mace/sword scepter/ace really viable. You create another condi build without weapon defense.
Need more a two handed ranged condi weapon, like 1200 range greatsword. With bow defense and offense in the skills.
I am a condi rev player and trust me i have climbed to legendary no so easily because this spec is hard. I know that guard actually is high but is not constructive to just tell guard is op nerf it….
Hello everyone and Anet.
Here a topic to list my feelings, comments about the previous months. The goal is also to give you with all the other players, an easy direction for what it misses to progress.
First of all, i want to thank you a lot Anet for the work done this season. I saw a lot of different classes, and different builds during this season. It’s the first time that all professions are competitive. I love the way that you introduce new maps, and the communication with your players. Thanks. Someone could tell me, “my profession is not op”, “this one is op as hell”. That could be true but we have progressed compared to the first season and that’s positive.
What you have did right Anet?
1 You have rework some weapon for the guardian smartly. This has created new sets for the guard and new way to play. The symbolic guard was created. I think you have to continue to rework each unplayed weapon, for each professions. It is the first step for build diversity and gameplay diversity.
2 You have try to talk a lot with us. You ask us for advices, notices. And you answer. It’s also a nice way to progress.
What you have to work on it?
1 With all the comments made during these two months, you have to give some little nerfs to certain professions/build. Not to kill them but just to reduce something.
2 Continue to improve the pvp and the whole game diversity. By reworking some forget weapons, forget traits, utilities, mecanics. We like when we see an old useless thing become competitive like the guard sword #2. I want to see in pvp different version of a same profession fighting for the win!
3 The matchmaking code. I know that it’s largely discussed but we have to continue to improve this system, to create nice parties.
4 Rework the teleport/shadowstep system. Especially when we want to go out of an aoe (traps for example).
5 I love the way that you introduce new maps! Maybe you have to think about new “map system”. Why not a capture the flag map like wow, or other things.
6 It’s time to split balance between pvp/wvw and pve guys. It’s not normal that power scrapper do some nice damage in pvp but is not competitive in raid for example. Another example is the torment/confusion conditions systeme for pve.
Finally, i want to thank all of you guys for this season, i have seen some really nice guys with really nice creative builds. It remains certains bad guys who are crying every match about the team. But, i have enjoyed really intense fights! Now it’s time to make your comments and to give a nice synthesis to the dev’s
Thanks for this post. Also for the dh bow skill 5.
If you want to teleport, you are just knockdown and stay in the skill. That’s frustrating because teleport normally could leave you.
Mesmer blink and staff 2 doesnt avoid test of faith
Dh are no op, the problem is that players do not know how to fight against Dh, I who am ranger and my nickname is Raplion I can guarantee that most of the problem of people’s forum is lack of skills and fingers, because now this season the classes are well balanced compared to other season.
All classes can’t send the pet into the traps and pewpew at 1200 range. Plus i dont know if you run druid but actually if a druid loose against a DH, he is really stupid. Finally, you realize that your profession is a Dh counter. Is that mean all professions are too? Surely not. For example, take a condi rev, with all the skill that you have, you begin with a big disavantage against DH. You can win, by playing godely with all your fingers, mind and strategy. Butthe DH has near nothing to do seriously to do the same.
Edit: This season, when i see that i loose like 3 matchs in a row, i have just rolled my druid. I always do 1v2 far and let my team at 4/3 mid-close. Like 90% of the time i dont die all the guys, 50% i can down one of them and 25% i win my 1v2. So please dont speak here about ranger to give an argument to this post.
Rev: off hand sword
Mesmer: off hand sWord/focus, scepter
Ele: warhorn
Necro: greatsword, axe
War: off hand mace/sword/axe (because shield is so usefull)
Guard: all weapon are so nice, maybe torch because lack of defense
Ingi: shield
Ranger: offhand axe
I have to agree too, Dh is really cancerous for the game actually. A bad design for a beautifull profession. How we can allow this amount of block with this burst, sustain and CC.
And guys, for those “learn to dodge” to defend the DH, i will answer, we havent 200 dodge per sec and pvp is not a 1v1 but more 2v2 or 3v3 on points.
An example: focus #5 blocks 3 attaks + f3 blocks for 5 sekittenraited + meditation elite immune for 3 sec + another 5sec of f3 + if someone dies with the valor trait "courageous return (30 sec icd) another 5sec of f3 + all the aegis provides by f3, traps or traits + double 4k healing from f2 and your big healing trap.
And that is just a short list of defensive tools that a lot of DH runs.
We can do the same with the cc possibilities.
The last problem is the pvp objectives. Yes we can avoid traps, symbols, we can wait that traps end, but during this time, the dh keep the point safe and controle it! Because of this point capture system, dh is more relevant to win a point because of his static preassure.
Oh i forget, why the couldown of traps begin when the trap is dropped? Because the double traps become hard to just “learn to dodges guys”.
But DH has a weakness! Finally. He can be killed more or less fast by a corrupt reaper with the shout that make his attacks unblockable and also unblockable marks. The only problem for this reaper is that he needs a really huge team cover to survive. In ESL all teams knows that and with this big counter DH is not bring because all team could have a really nice necro and they cover it. Do you think that is it the case in solo queu??? I think not.
Conclusion: it’s not normal to organize all the team to fight a DH. If DH is not OP, why this season we have seen 2-3-4 Dh per teams?
Personnally i have no issue with this classe but i dislike the idea of a less skill high reward classe allowing bad gameplay to climb high divisions.
If the DH just need 1/5 of the skill requiered to master a thief i will say ok dont nerf them. But it’s not the case.
For god Anet, if we are behind a wall or box don’t allow tp!! (Like guard sword #2 or shiro tp, or thief F1)
Above average guard is solid.
Above average necro is excellent.
Above average ele is poor.
Above average Thief is bad.Being above average with some professions is not the same as being viable, or even good. You are either exceptional with them and get exceptional results,..or you’re letting your team down. Thieves low armour and HP make them a class example of how they have very little wiggle room. Being good only ensure you a 40% win rate. Being above average will only ensure you a 50% win rate. You need to be on point and consistent if you want results from them.
Ele is the same. You either spam and just annoy opponents and eventually lose, or you purposefully and knowledgeably use them to counter and prevail. There is no in between anymore where spam and constant heals will save you.
Thief is bad????
Read the whole statement. Thief is far from bad..but they are terrible when not in the hands of someone who is dedicated to them. An above average thief is nothing to sweat about. An exceptional thief is.
But this is an Anet class design problem.
Is it normal that chrono is by far the best 1v1 professions, really op. But the most poor class in melee fight? This is a bad design around illusions.
Same for thief, one or the most dangerous class in small situation in good hands. You can kill every thing, go out, come in, insta burst, chain cc etc etc. But, one of the weakiest class in group and on bad hands.
Conclusions: because of gw pvp structure: a lot of group fights, on point, with average players, thief and chrono are actually really bad even with the super capacity of these professions.
For a good pvp balance, all professions could be weak with 0 skill and fully op with great players. They all can deal well in 1v1 and group fights.
Dh is also a bad designed elite (opposite of thief/chrono), no skill required to perform, all insta aoe cc, damage, 0 placement but in this pvp structure is enough and the Dh are king.
Above average guard is solid.
Above average necro is excellent.
Above average ele is poor.
Above average Thief is bad.Being above average with some professions is not the same as being viable, or even good. You are either exceptional with them and get exceptional results,..or you’re letting your team down. Thieves low armour and HP make them a class example of how they have very little wiggle room. Being good only ensure you a 40% win rate. Being above average will only ensure you a 50% win rate. You need to be on point and consistent if you want results from them.
Ele is the same. You either spam and just annoy opponents and eventually lose, or you purposefully and knowledgeably use them to counter and prevail. There is no in between anymore where spam and constant heals will save you.
Thief is bad????
I understand that but in this condi meta how many warriors takes Rousing Resilience instead of Cleansing Ire? I can see this when facing an enemy power comp but most of the time its at least half condi classes against you.
And when you say ICD, do you mean more than 10s since Outrage has a 10s CD?
A condi meta? In legendary division and maybe emrald all dh are power except few in burn guard, thieves/rev are power, druid/ele are power hybrid heal, mesmer/necro are hybrid power/condi damage. I think we don’t p’ay the same game, the condi meta doesnt exist it’s a power burst meta actually dude. And the resistance gives by healing signet and adrenaline stance are enough
First thanks to answer, it’s nice to have other visions. To goal is to propose balance ideas and not op ones.
Concerning the hammer trait, i agree, i don’t switch to hammer when i want to have more defensive tool but i think is cool to give to the rev more weapon traits and to give to hammer more defensive tools. Don’t forget that is Jalis ironhammer^^ so i have fou d funny tu put the hammer trait in retribution line.
For the glutton trait i think you are right, an active boon dispel will be more skilly so we can imagine reducing the energy cost of banish enchantment or improve the number of boon dispelled.
I think too that Anet doesnt want to introduce trait like energy recovery but it could be really smart for some lines
What do you think about the trait switching? Do you feel that it fit more with the lines?
3) SALVATION LINE
Thematic: improve your healing option, ventari stance and staff. Actually revenant is strong as group healer but he is weak himself when he heals allies.
Minor
Steadfast rejuvenation: chance when struck to heal yourself (400, 4sec, 50%). The old retribution trait, fitting more this line and give to salvation a real hype
Hardened foundation: unchanged (maybe up to 10%)
Serene rejuvenation: unchanged
Adept
Nourishing roots: unchanged
Bliding truths: unchanged
Tranquil balance: unchanged
Master
Eluding nullification: remove a condition to 5 allies in the range (240, cd reduce to 5 sec*). 10 sec for a trait like that is too much, or increase at 2 conditions if you don’t want to change the cd
Tranquil benediction: increase staff healling orbs amount by 100%. That fit well with the close range healerstaff playstyle, you spam you AA in 2 sec so you have to be rewarded in terms of thealing
Invigoration flow: heal yourself when you use a skill that has an energy cost (500, cd 5sec). Old invocation talent fitting better with salvation thematic
GrandMaster
Selfless amplification: unchanged
Natural abundance: unchanged
New talent: Energie recovery: after using Energy explusion, you gain increase energy regeneration for a short duration (3energy/sec, 5 sec). A trait increasing ventari utility and energy management
4) CORRUPTION LINE
Thematic: improve your condition management, boons dispel, and the mace.
Minor
Rampant vex: unchanged
Opportune extraction: reduce the time to 5 sec, 1 boon every 10 sec is not a thing
Yearning empowerment: unchanged (maybe increase torment damage by 100% to mobile target in pve)
Adept
Replenishing dispair: unchanged
Demonic defiance: unchanged
Venom enhancement: unchanged
Master
Bolstered anguish: increase your damage and condi damage by 3% per condi on you. _Don’t forget that we are in a condi line
Frigid precision:unchanged
Spontaneous destruction: unchanged
GrandMaster
Diabolic inferno: increase also burn duration by 33%. To allow burning to be really diaoblic
New talent: Complete darkness: when you are under embrace the darkness, you copy 1 condi on you to 5 ennemies for 3 sec(1sec cd; ignoring blind). This revert the old change and give to this elite is real utility. Malyx manage condi by copying them, let’s allow him to really do it an create an alternative playstyle
New talent: Glutton: When wielding a mace, each 5 condi application, you remove 1 boon on foe. Increase condi damage why wieldin a mace by 150. This is the boon controle of Malyx, this talent is nice for long stationnary fights
5) DEVASTATION LINE
Thematic: improve power damage, cc, Shiro stance and sword.
Minor
Mutilate defenses: unchanged
Targeted destruction: unchanged
Focused siphoning: unchanged
Adept
Ferocious strikes: unchanged
Vicious lacerations: unchanged
Ferocious aggression: deal incresead damage to targets while you have fury (7%). The old invocation trait fitting more with devastation
Master
Jade echo + dismantle fortifications: for anti-stability and cc builds. These 2 talents alone are not enough but together are nice
Incesed response: gain fury when you break out of a stun. Old invocation talent that fitting better with devastation line
Assassin’s presence: unchanged
GrandMaster
Swift termination: unchanged
Assassin’s annihilation: unchanged
Roiling mists: increase critical-hit chance under fury (100%). Old invocation talent that fitting better with this line
Synthesis: I have proposed here small changes to revenant trait lines by using a lot existing talents. We can observ that some lines are actually no utility and no sence, i try to give more thematic to these ones. Discuss guys and if some dev could use this thread to improve rev core. Thanks for reading.
Hello guys, as i can read in this forum, the revenant was thinking with his elite spec Herald. So the base traits are “no sence” for a lot, a mix of ideas, without fitting the thematic of the line.
I want to discuss here a suggestion of rework line to give them a real thematic.
The goal here is not to create OP specs or OP builds, just to fit better with all nature of lines. When you choose the Salvation line for example, you have to become a powerful healer/support. I try a lot to keep existing traits and deplacing them.
1) INVOCATION LINE
Thematic: improve your invocation abilities and legends. It’s an hybrid line that provide nice tools when switching or camping a legend.
Minor
Invoker’s rage: unchanged
New talent, Invocation reversion: when you invoke a legend, you convert conditions into boons (20 sec)
Empty vessel: invoking a legend will now break stuns, but add also “reduce 15% legend swap”
Adept
Invoking harmony: Healing done to allies is increased when you invoke a legend (20%, 10 sec). I put here the salvation trait to give a healing solution to this line, and this fits well with invocation thematic
Cleansing channel: Invoking a legend remove 3 condition to nearby allies (radius 300). The previous version of this trait is really weak and useless, this new one give to invocation a nice support role
New talent: Angry invocation: gain increase damage and condition damage when you invoke a legend (7%, 10 sec) .This provide an offensive role to invocation line, the old trait Ferocious agression has no sence and doesn’t fit this line
Master
Equilibrium: when you invoke a legend, you heal nearby allies (1200, radius 600). I split here the old version of this trait to give a distinct role more clear, this first version is an healing solution
New talent: Agressive invocation: invoking a legend triggers a burst of the mist that deals damage (600, radius 350). The damage part of the previous trait for power builds
Manical persistence: increase your critical-hit chance every few seconds you camp a legend (combat only, 1sec, 2%, max 30%). This improve build where you don’t want to swap legends, this trait dont fit well with the corruption trait line
GrandMaster
Pulsating pestilence: when you invoke a legend you copy 3 conditions to nearby ennemies (radius 350, unblockable). I increase a little the radius to improve this talent and also add unblockable effet to give more defensive tool to condi builds
Shrouding mists: when your energy is above the threshold your outgoing healing is increased. While your energy is below the threshold , incoming damage is reduced to you (damage reduction 20%/threshold 30, healing increase 25%/threshold 50). I increase here damage reduction to give a real tanky option to this line and create a nice way to manage energy for tank and healers
New talent: Invoker: When you swap to a legend, you give a bonus to nearby allies depending of the legend (10 sec, radius 600, Malyx 150 condi damage, Jalis 150 toughness, Shiro 150 power, Ventari 150 healing power, Herald 150 precision). This is a good talent as a support role, all legend are improved and gives to allies a nice buff
2) RETRIBUTION LINE
Thematic: improve your tankiness, the dwarf stance and the hammer.
Minor
Enduring recovery: unchanged
Unwavering avoidance: unchanged
Determined resolution: unchanged
Adept
Planar protection: unchanged
Close quarters: unchanged
Improved aggression: Taunted foes deal less damage to you. Reduce the energy cost of Forced engagement by 20. I add the energy cost reduction to give jalis stance more utility, maybe a taunter build, the old version is useless exept for pve
Master
Eye for an Eye: unchanged
Retaliory evasion: gain retaliation after a dodge for 4 sec. I increase the duration for retaliation to give for impact to this talent, 2 sec is nothing. Retaliation could be a good way for tank build to do small damages
Dwarven battle training: change on hit to apply weakness to your foe. You take less damage by weakened foes (10%). small change to give more tank option to this trait
GrandMaster
Versed in stone: unchanged
Empowering vengeance: when you are under retaliation, you take less 10% damage and 10% condi damage. Small damage increase compared to versed stone but more longer, the previous version of this talent has no sence to tank builds
New talent: Protector of the throne: you and nearby allies gain protection for 5 sec after swapping to hammer weapon(cd 25sec). This line laks of protection access and this could be increase hammer utility
:
Revenant > Crusader > Warhorn (Rurik)
.
Thanks but no way, rev need a serious hybrid condi range or mid range solution
Longbow, shortbow, rifle or we can imagine mid range dagger, axe or long range polearme, greatsword
1. Agree
2. Totally disagree. Gw2 is the only MMO where you have to change profession to be competitive. Before the begining of the match you jave to adapt your build and discuss team strategy but not swap class. I dislike this idea. I prefer players who master perfectly one classe than players whos knows approximatively 3.
3. Agree
4. Nice idea but 1 professions per team not more and you can’t switch!
With 2 and 4, Anet will realize each season which professions are useless (maybe what builds) and what are op.
Actually i m forced to sWitch when there we are 3 of the same profession and this is teamaking algorithm problem
Look to the Revenant and the Mallyx Legend and you can clearly see that every good advices we gave to ANet to make a better necromancer was used to make the Revenant and his condi legend.
Always start with a fixed amount of energy that increase/reduce when go out of a combat, use condi to empower his damage, have a dedicated boon to be immune to conditions, a “shroud” (elite) that increase his statistics when used, mobility skills (also spammable), Blast Finishers (also a firefield and a triple blast shill in the same main hand weapon), a Good condi weapon (we have the scepter, that out of 4 sec torment don’t grant us any good condi damage, also corrupting the enemy boons, while they spam torment and burn), a condition offhand weapon (we have the dagger offhand that is the worst offhand weapon of the game, good only to send back 3 conditions, if you hit -why is slow and really easy to see and avoid-).
They used all our suggestions to make that class, leaving us with only a better version of the Shroud, but with melee range, that force us to go in short range against enemies that don’t even fear us why they can kill us way better then we can kill them, and a pure direct damage weapon on a condi/hybrid specializzation. Not a single core problem of our class was fixed. We only obtained a viable version of what we had before.Anyway also with the staff and hitting multiple foes you need a lot to reach enough LF to enter in Shroud and be shure to even complete the Rs5+Rs4 combo, and in some battles you’ll not even able to do that with 50%of your LF.
Also Moa killing minions is a Huge nerf compared to other classes skills like engineer Turrets or Gyros (I don’t know about guardian spirit weapons, but they’re uselss anyway).
Are you serious here? Have you ever played condi rev? Do you think condi rev is superior to condi reaper?
1) condi reaper applys more condi than rev
2) condi reaper has a lot of corruption (you can corrupt malyx resistance)
3) condi reaper can more easily applys condi (spamming distance skills, large areas, large aoe, where rev have just small aoes)
If a reaper loose against a condi rev especily the condi minion master build, just delete.
You complain about reaper offhand but the rev axe is not so powerfull as condi.
The malyx elite? You describe it like the biggest skill but who use it in pvp?
Dont forget that when you switch to malyx you have to choose, is resistance, 2 boon strip or one dark zone, but you CANT spam all the things in a raw like you seem describe it.
A reaper dont have this choice.
Agree with 1,2,3
I wish also no class stacking in pvp.
I desagree with your 4 comments actually dh is no brain high reward:
Sword #2 insta tp, even if you are behind a thing. Guard just spam tab and hazard tp.
Too much aoes and cc. Guard is the best way to rez in pvp. Symboles are also too much with traps and cc. You cant have damage, blocks, aoe, cc, immune, dispel, burst in a same spec.
Sometimes you can sed some dh spamming scepter 1-2 and killing a lot of guys.
Maybe the problem of traps will solve if pvp is not a capture point!
Ok nerf condi. But nerf more power damage, actually insta kill dh, rev, war, thief, chrono
Even power assist tempest and druid. So power is actually > condi.
Weakness, toughness, protection is cover to mitige power damage.
Actually all power build have blocks, evade, cc, burst to mitige condi damage.
Like the wow arena 2v2/3v3 or 5v5. Even the team composition can play an important role (depending of the extension), this pvp format is really skilled.
It judges your gameplay, your personnal skill and your team symbiosis as well.
The problem with the current pvp format or wvw it judges a lot more your number, your team composition and your teamplay. Not really the personnal skill.
Team decision, rotations are far important than personnal skill. It’s about strategy only and not real pvp skill.
Mace+Axe is main condi weapons and you still can apply torment via trait with autoatacks and Mallyx has now good condi copy ty to reworked trait. In spvp shiro\mallyx with viper is decent.
I run mallyx\glint in wvw and its so good)
And raid leader is right in Raid ur team need ur DPS so zerk is better then condi. Even ventari Rev in raid is better then condi)
I know that mace/axe is condi… I think you dont understand the topic, compare mace/axe to sword/ shield and you will see that the condi set have 0 defensive tool (sword3, shield 4 and5), and actually in pvp you need that.
Also condi doesnt have a condi switch with defensive tool.
In wvw is not the same, you have more condi armor with defensive stats. And you run in a bus…
Actually i love the revenant. I like diversity and change my builds.
But… There are really really big differences between power and condi build, in terms of viability.
First, concerning pvp
The power build has a lot more defense than power one. Mace compared to sword has no defense. Also the condi build has no real weapon switch option. You can switch to staff or sword/x but it’s more for defensive tool, the condi dps dissaper when you switch.
But power build has two decent switch with staff or hammer, without loosing dps!
Also the power build run shiro when the condi one run malyx (to improve condi preasure). Shiro gives another time a lot of defensive tools and high mobility when malyx has just condi management and boons removal (with high cost).
Condi weapon is also a close range weapon, why it doesn’t have gap closer like sword 3 Or shiro phase traversal? And all our condi zones are easily dodgeble.
I dont want a power build nerf because i love this build and find it balanced! Hard skill for high reward. But with the constant malyx nerf since the hot release and the condi weapon set, i wish a balance between power and condi build by helping condi one.
Anet why allowing dh, scrapper, chrono high cc capacity, and nerfing the first version of unyelding anguish? Why allowing the reaper corrupt and condi transfer and nerf the first version of embrace the darkness?
I hope that you will balance mace/x to sword/x to allow condi build to run also shiro! With sword you can just spam 1 to down ennemy to kill them. Try to do the same with mace and you will see.
2) concerning wvw
The power hammer is the reference. No chance to condi build, with no serious ranged option. Why taking condi build when hammer can spam 4-5k damage to 5guys with 1200 range?
3) pve and raid
I have tried to raid as condi viper, the raid lead just kicked me and tell me “it’s power build or nothing”. He was not wrong but it’s not normal. You have to work on torment pve/raid damage.
(edited by epouvante.7392)
Fluidmonolith, i have though about a thing. The weapon swap also create a certain unstability in our gameplay, that’s can be a surprising thing for ennemies.
With your proposed things and the proposed cd decrease we can imagine that for each weapon all skill #3 change for each legend, like thief with x/x.
So we could improve the synergie between weapon and legend.
Example: sword #3 with shiro = unchanged
Sword #3 with malyx = teleportation to ennemy and inflict weakness, cripple and blind for example
Etc etc
I have to be agree with justine.6351 but the proposal ideas here are really nice. The proposed weapon related talent are also nice.
It’s good to spezialise more weapons but we will loose in versatility without weapon swap even with adding defensive tool in sets.
Another example, if we add a defensive tool to mace, and we run a condi mace shield, we have a nice condi/defensive set the problem is if we need more defensive tools or cc or whatever on cds we cant switch to staff, we just have to wait cds
I love the idea, really. New talents focusing on weapons buff. Add mace or sword ranged options or hammer close option to compensate their weakness.
But their is a big problem. If you delete the weapon swap you will nerf a lot some builds.
1) the actual power build, if you cant swap to staff, you loose a nice block+blind, a nice cc+evade, and nice heal+dispel….
2) with a support staff build, you will loose the sword block and shield block support!
3 the worst is for the condi build, if you run mace/shield you loose a potential nive defensive switch with staff or sword axe. A big nerf. Dont forget that usually condi plays with malyx, a legend with no evade, dodge, immune. So your proposition could be great if you add some defensive tool to mace and malyx (block, evade, like sword 3, or shiro evade)
DH is broken. Everything about the class is broken. DH has too many passive, childish defenses. They can stay alive for way too long and it’s not because these DH players are good (as if being “good” at Gw2 PvP is something to brag about) but because they have too many childish defenses. With all these defenses, you’d expect them to hit like a wet noodle yet they hit like a freaking truck. So not only can they stay alive but they can also deal insane amounts of damage? Hmm, was there ever a point in which Anet devs realized that this might just be a little too strong? I just don’t get what Anet devs think during these “balance” updates. My guess is they lack the resources to do anything worthwhile so they settle for less which is “let’s overbuff classes and over nerf the others.” But I mean who can blame them right? It’s no wonder why GW2 sales are horrendous lately.
Totally agree here. A lot of noobs run dh and can perform well.
You forget the formidable amount of cc, imblokable for some of them.
You forget also the formidable aoe butst via traps and symboles.
And the symbiosis when there are two or three dh in a same team.
Personnally, i win a lot of dh 1v1 because they are very stupid but when you are against a smart player, you see that the class is insanely broken
Oh i forget sleath gyro for team and steath avatar living for team
I was surprise that all match that i did on diamond are win exect when we encounter x druid/ y dh/ z scrapper with x+y+z=5
When one of them are not druid/guard/scrapper we can kitten d him and outnumbered the team
The problem?? Dh a lot a lot of cc=> trap daze x 1000, bow 5, virtue pull, elite trap, bow pull etc
Druid same a lot of cc (pet, daze, glyphe) and immo on cc that is too powerfull!
Scrapper the master daze!!! Gyros, hammer etc etc
So you have a ultra tanky team with high immune block heal uptime and high dps with pets / traps etc and a really cheaty cc cleave!
Shiro has super high mobility, stun break and cc but without condi cleanse. To be competitive you require more condi cleanse.
Glint has high boon sharing and low energy cost, a stun break and cc so you require more condi cleanse.
I am ok with that but malyx has no mobility, no cc and no stun break so with your logic we have to add it? Same for ventari?
Actually with the classical power set you have a lot of survivability, sword 3, shield 5, staff 3,4,5 plus shiro and glint. The condi weapon has no real defensive tool or just shield 5 if you run mace/shield, mace/axe, there is glint with a nice heal and malyx with a high condi controle but 0 survivability and high energy cost.
I understand you want to achieve a perfect power build but pls realize that condi rev need more help than power one!
@Lucred…, i wrote about “meta builds” and those 6 i mentioned use power based amus (i didnt wrote anything about runes, nore did i wrote something about the viability about condi speccs of those 6 classes)
and @power warrior being terrible in pvp…tell that obindo
Yeah sorry I got a bit mixed up.
-thief is running Marauder (power/crit) or Carrion (condi/health), though power is slightly favored.
-DH is running Mender’s (health/heal)
-Necro is running carrion (condi/health)
-Scrapper is running Paladin’s (power/crit/health) or Carrion (condi/health), meta is tied powerhammer/flamethrower condi
-Warrior is running carrion (condi/health). I don’t care if Obindo plays power warrior, it is bad for 99.999% of sPvP players.
-Ele is running Mender’s (health/heal)
-Mesmer is running Carrion (condi/health)
-Druid is running Mender’s (health/heal)
-Revenant is running either Seeker’s (power/health/concentration) or Viper’s (power/condi), meta is tied power vs. condi.So again, while I screwed up the wording, you have 3 viable power builds, 6 viable condi builds, and 3 builds that focus on healthpool and healing (and which have a mix of power and condi attacks).
Condi is grossly over-represented in the meta.
Your analyze is really not representative and good.
1) condi scrapper and rev have really less survivability tools than power version! Just compare the hammer and p/p or bombs/flamethrower kit mandatory that delete a defensive utility slot. So the meta is power rev and power scrapper. First mistake.
2) all carion builds are condi/health AND power. I don’t know if you play this amulet but in a mesmer/chrono/rev/scrapper the total power damage is high, sometimes equal or higher than condi (yes for a chrono too). So it’s an hybrid build not just a condi one!
3) druid and tempest are support with health/heal amulet BUT the do power damage and no so much condi one. Mender give an important POWER and CRITIC that allow druid (and tempest in a weaker measure) to have decent or nice power damage.
So the conclusion is not the same:
- power meta: dh, thief, rev, scrapper
- hybrid meta condi/power: chrono, reaper, warrior
- hybrid meta heal/ power: druid, tempest
- condi meta (damage with only condi stat, rabit for example): 0
Condi are powerfull but actually condi builds have in general less sustain than power ones. And condi alone without hybrid power condi are not sufficient to be meta.
In the meta you can do near 800k damage with power builds but rarely 800k condi damage, is more like 300k power and 500k condi (with good players and good teams).
So condi alone are < power.
The problem is not condi damage but defensive condi (chill, fear, cripple, weakness etc)
Totally agree here they have to find a way to change it. Various problem:
If you have kill 91% of svanir, how to counter your kill?
I think to have the svanir point a team have to kill more than 75% of svanir AND finish it.
So if an ennemy finish just with one hit nobldy win points !
Agreed, it’s not just at the traits though. It goes further. A lot the active skills are defensive.
Look at chronomancer for example; shield alone gave:
- 3 seconds of block
- 4 seconds of slow from phantasms
- Aoe cc that can be used offensively and defensively.
- Projectile destruction
- Cool down reduction
That’s from a single off hand weapon. It’s a lot of defense. Then add on the utilities; the heal (condi clear and sustained heals), well of precognition(stability and protection) , well of calamity(weakness and cripple), gravity well (mass pulsing cc). Then the almighty reset button the chronoshift. You have an overloaded defensive kit, before traits, which just happen to have nice defensive options.
Currently on mesmer you can run around with zerker amulet and be as difficult to deal with as cele ele was before it was removed. Here is the thing tho. The issue isn’t mesmer or mesmers kit, its chrono’s. Chrono isn’t solely the issue either, every class got defensive additions similar to the descriptive chunk above. Then compound all this defense with damage/utility increases that came with the elite specs on top of that and you realize it’s raw power creep. Every single elite spec is grossly overtuned to the point that your selling your self short if you don’t take them. Elite specs were from my understanding supposed to change the class functionally, not define them permanently.
Sadly, that isnt what anet’s interested in, all they care about it selling a product. OP elite specs continues to sell expansions. So it won’t change. I’ll call it here and now, the next expansion is going to have even more power creep. Prob to the point that our current elites are unuseable.
Boons, and boon sharing is another problem on it’s own, but isnt exclusive to HoT. I can think of various ways to break boons with the base classes in it’s current state. It’s why cele ele was so strong back when it was a thing. People are just more aware of it because we have them coming out the ying yang now.
I think it’s just an example because you can take all the professions;
Dragonhunter:
- virtue 3: 5sec block (7 traited) + aegis block
-medit elite: 3 sec immunitiy + heal traited + virtue 3 another aegis+ 7sec block
- focus 5: 4 sec of block
- aegis block: a lot of trait procs aegis on cc, on block
- masse 2: 3 sec of block
- shield, consecration, new consecration: projectile immunity.
Etc etc
And we can do the same for scrapper, herald, berserker.
For other professions have also their mitigation but not blocks, evade/sltealth:mobility for thief, heal/mobility/stealth for druide, death shrould for reaper, damage reduction/healing for tempest.
Sorry but actually run with a zerk amulet with a chrono and power weapon and all professions will gank you! (Power chrono havent a sustain damage)
You talk about well utilities? They are not usefull, just the heal and maybe the elite if you dont like moa.
For me the probleme actually is the health pool, they have to normalise it. The build diversity, and the role of certain profession (give to tempest a decent power build). Also the professions stack: three zerk build just one shot you, and three condi build just one shot you also. How to manage zerk and bomb condi usefullness?
Definitely thief, good thief is crazy.
After dh is amazing. Then war and chrono.
More condi!
But i think i prefer fight against a condi team rather a dh Team.
A- condi chrono/condi war/power war/ druid/ condi reaper/ power thief/ power herald/ power scrapper/ power dh/ bunker dh
B- tempest (power/support)/condi scrapper/ condi druid/ condi herald
C-power chrono/ power reaper
If we see the balance for me 8 professions have a competitive build (class A).
Tempest has no A- build because he does all things (power/condi/ assist/ heal) but not really well, with the S4 changes, tempest the healing/assist is reduced. But in all previous season team without tempest lost… They have to give to tempest a dps (power/condi) build and reduce the team assist.
Exept for Dh and war, professions have just one A/build so the diversity is not satisfy!
More power build are viable than condi ones but condi build stack hardly together!
Mention to thief that need a high skill to be in A/ category.
War/guard have to build competitve because all of them could use the same defensive trait and utilitaries.
Synthesis: the balance is better and better, sure it’s not perfect, with diversity but it’s in a good direction.
I like the evolution of professions:
-thief: a lot of evade, stealth,well played they are just disturbing (i saw one particulary good!)
- war: cc, blocks,resistance, damage, a really great and solid pillar!
-guard: blocks, blocks, blocks, cc, damage, they are some of them so tanky;)
-scrapper: the best bruiser, damage, tank, dispel, solid mate!
-reaper: condi output is amazing and nice tankiness with ds
-chrono: blocks, immune, stealh, a nice pannel of escape
-druid: the best capacity if healing with a great cc/mobility!
-heral: high mobility, immune, evade , hard to learn but high reward
And finally tempest: no real defenSe style: a little mobility, a little immune. In the past this versality was yhe strengh of the tempest, he did everything, not perfectly but well. Actually he does nothing in pvp. But with a nice team he could support well with aura.
Finally, nice work, pleaSe continue to improve class playstyle, improve build diversity (trait,skills, weapons non used) and find a tempest role and way to deal with damage (passive damage reduction with earth/ protection improvment is NOT a playstyle, give them an active playstyle).
I would present two types of tiers and rank the top 5.
Broken tier (Easy play obvious advantage)
God Tier (High skill cap. Even high than the general skill required to play a class decently)
The God tier have the most potential. The Broken tier are an uphill battle to face unless you outplay them but they can only go so far.
Broken Tier (Strongest 1- Weakest 5)
1) Druid
2) Condi/Chronomancer
3) Scrapper
4) Revanent
5) ThiefGod Tier (Strongest 1- Weakest 5)
1) Revanant
2) Thief
3) Engineer in general
4) Mesmer in general
5) Druid.It should be noted that Classes like Guardian, Warrior, Necromancer and Elementalist are limited in their easy builds and their skill floor.
This is strictly 1 vs 1 although many of those classes are also powerful in tpvp.
This opinion comes from observing which class is most likely to win while spectating similar builds.Honestly I’d rank it, from strongest to weakest, as
1. Condi warrior (insane CC, insane resist, good damage, great self-healing, decent mobility, decent ranged damage)
2. Signet Necro (insane CC, insane self-healing 1v1, excellent damage in both melee and ranged, hands-down the best downed abilities)
3. Scrapper (insane mitigation, great mobility, decent CC, decent damage in melee, token ranged damage)
4. Druid (very good ranged damage, insane mobility, decent self-heals, okay melee damage, annoying knockback/good CC)
5. Revenant (insane mobility, decent damage in melee, decent self-heals, decent mitigation, zero ranged damage if wanting sustain)Any class with at least 1 stunbreak and a decent self-heal should beat a dagger thief. Anybody with decent CC should beat daredevil or d/p thief. This is because everybody has at least some active mitigation.
Mesmers are great at kiting but should lose to an equally skilled druid or necro due to being ranged users. If a Herald builds specifically for it (power herald sword/axe) they can catch and kill a mesmer, but give up basically all of their sustain to do so.
That guys is right!!! Thanks for posting dude, a lot of people forget that the last season and actually condi war is really broken!
Power war have a loarge access to resistance! With no boons duration the signet is 6sec with 16 sec cd… What do you want? Os condi build with an all time immune?
Guys condi is a way to take down, they need some rework in pvp or adjustment in stacking but not a large nerf.
In another way, 80 pf the dps in pve and wvw are power so condi need a large large up???
If you propose a pvp condi nerf, propose also a condi wvw and pve up!
1) palawa has conquiered Elona continent in gw1, now the last area that he wants is krytia. The only access between Elona and krytia is crystal desert (the old kingdom of the “fordidden”, the brill protector.
2) in the video we can see an undead army, same as palawa joko army. Also the last guy that we can see is similar to palawa.
https://wiki-fr.guildwars2.com/images/thumb/0/0c/Palawa_Joko.jpg/200px-Palawa_Joko.jpg
And at min of the video 00:48 min
3) we can also imagine that palawa wants to conquiere krytia and could use the brill egg, to control the dragon.
According to gw2 ls3 trailer and gw1 informations i have imagines that the new thread is Palawa joko. Anyone else have not it?:)
A lot of other element are also in favot of this idea (undead, the forbidden, brill,…)
Your ideas about it?
Because of tempest and reapers, nothing to add.
Nice idea! It’s really interesting to have new effect if we have 3 illusions for clones spells!
For a power damage fantsme build, gs #2 is useless because of this clone!!
I hope they will read this thread!
Condi damage in this game is not a method for slowly bleeding a player out with dots, it is an alternative to power damage. Stop with the bias against condi classes, and fix the real problems.
Condition damage needs to require 3 stats to actually hit hard then. I need power, precision and ferocity to hit hard while all condi build needs is condi damage and call it a day. Thats without mentioning how condi dmg ignored toughness/other -% reduction stuff. Condi in this game is an aids really. Go make a duel with full soldier anything vs full dire anything and tell me how it went. In any case dire user will destroy the soldier user to small pieces. Whats the difference between the two? Soldier has power which lack any sort of damage unlike dire which just doesnt care. Its a core problem that should have been addressed 3 years ago.
Condi damage need condi power, condi duration AND the time to stack condi OR to restack ir after a disepel. Power build don’t need a lot of time to develop insta burst kill.
So it’s 3 parameters for each way to deal damage. You just want to kill easily condi build dude.O, really? It needs time?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlQE9coHRco
3 hits and gg. Seems legit and totally working as intended.Waow this example is so representative. A thief that walk in all revenant zone, with 0 cleanse and i imagine 0 vitality. Same example with a zerk war 2hit and the thief dead.
You understand something as DoT, damage over time? Its not supposed to be as bursty as power damage yet it is what it is. Thats why it need require 3 stats to hit as hard as power builds otherwise the damage has to be nerfed hard.
His point still stand though..if this same thief was attacked by a power character his death would have been near instant instead of taking a whole 8 seconds.
Thanks.
Condi damage in this game is not a method for slowly bleeding a player out with dots, it is an alternative to power damage. Stop with the bias against condi classes, and fix the real problems.
Condition damage needs to require 3 stats to actually hit hard then. I need power, precision and ferocity to hit hard while all condi build needs is condi damage and call it a day. Thats without mentioning how condi dmg ignored toughness/other -% reduction stuff. Condi in this game is an aids really. Go make a duel with full soldier anything vs full dire anything and tell me how it went. In any case dire user will destroy the soldier user to small pieces. Whats the difference between the two? Soldier has power which lack any sort of damage unlike dire which just doesnt care. Its a core problem that should have been addressed 3 years ago.
Condi damage need condi power, condi duration AND the time to stack condi OR to restack ir after a disepel. Power build don’t need a lot of time to develop insta burst kill.
So it’s 3 parameters for each way to deal damage. You just want to kill easily condi build dude.O, really? It needs time?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlQE9coHRco
3 hits and gg. Seems legit and totally working as intended.
Waow this example is so representative. A thief that walk in all revenant zone, with 0 cleanse and i imagine 0 vitality. Same example with a zerk war 2hit and the thief dead.
Really nice synthesis dude. This is clear and easy to implemente.
I think one problem will not be solve easily: the MMR management.
I want to add one suggestion: i think they have to add more “map goal” in pvp. Actually the pvp is to “win time one points”. Why not imagine other goals: capture the flag, best killer, survivor or what ppl want.
Pls just stop with war war war all the time. There are 9 professions and we always talk about war. This thread is not really cosntructive but more into personnal up wish list for your happiness. Actually the war is more than fine in pvp with condi and direct damage, in pve and wvw is also overused. And you want to up the overused trait?
I think they have first to balance all the over professions to give them 2 viable builds (or more) and a certain balance.
Condi damage in this game is not a method for slowly bleeding a player out with dots, it is an alternative to power damage. Stop with the bias against condi classes, and fix the real problems.
Condition damage needs to require 3 stats to actually hit hard then. I need power, precision and ferocity to hit hard while all condi build needs is condi damage and call it a day. Thats without mentioning how condi dmg ignored toughness/other -% reduction stuff. Condi in this game is an aids really. Go make a duel with full soldier anything vs full dire anything and tell me how it went. In any case dire user will destroy the soldier user to small pieces. Whats the difference between the two? Soldier has power which lack any sort of damage unlike dire which just doesnt care. Its a core problem that should have been addressed 3 years ago.
Condi damage need condi power, condi duration AND the time to stack condi OR to restack ir after a disepel. Power build don’t need a lot of time to develop insta burst kill.
So it’s 3 parameters for each way to deal damage. You just want to kill easily condi build dude.