Guild Wars 2

You would think if something worked well in SPvP it would do ok in WvW as well =/ Used to run full celestial mesmer and my damage was never that bad.

Also that 7k crit was when I was playing on my thief, sorry. I was a little baffled by the damage since LB 5 is a CC skill and was more then I could push out with a single unload burst on a full glass build.

Thanks for the advice though, gotta figure out how to score a set with those stats.

Hi all, Im trying to get a better understanding of this game’s wvw system. Currently damage I take and damage I dish out seem to be very questionable.

I’m currently running full exotic Power/Prec/Condi damage on my non upleveled mesmer and i’m only tickling enemies, stopping at 2.1k power. But I’m taking what seems to be baffling damage from skills across the board.

My thief seems to be the only character in WvW that does any respectable damage but hes literally full glass rare armor, exotic weapons and melts against any and every build.

Throwing in a picture to give an example of whats going on.

Im wondering how we unlock our elite specs this time around. Hopefully we dont need to go through PoF content before we can actually unlock the E.Spec. Turned me off when HoT came out.

Literally fell asleep in the opening scenes. It was not fun at all. I understand it was a story sequence but man, I am so uninterested in that right off the bat due to how bland this Demo started us off.

Got the mount, its pretty interesting, love how it gives a huge speed boost, but it not having any combat aspects is kind of disheartening. Soon as you use the attack it dismounts =/

Then I went outside the village after the tutorial and just saw the most blandest event, defend the farmers… Logged off instantly. I’m hyped for the elite specs, but outside of that, so far, I doubt I would even be putting money on the expansion.

If only you could evade the pulls…

Ive ran into a few condi thieves. My god the fun got sucked out of the game so fast for me. Especially when there are condi mesmers running rampant as well… Yeah no thanks anet :/ game is getting uninstalled once again cause its just not even worth it anymore.

Silv.9207:

Had to snip, was more then 5000.

Entire game? No just pvp since thats all i play. I cant speak for PvE or WvW.

Movement skills are fine, my issue is with how teleports behave in this game’s pvp, through terrain and with soft CC. It far surpasses any gap closer that isnt a teleport because it has no consequence and is full of reward.

Im against damage modifiers in this current state of the game because they arent needed with the current pace. We need lower damage at the moment to bring the PvP to a more rewarding pace instead of whoever burst more while using sustain wins.

Precision, in my opinion should put you as close to having a chance to crit, but not making it so you crit each and every time.

Condition damage is definitely not ok with how it is now as application is just to high for how much damage conditions do. Higher application pressure should mean you need high stacks in order to do amazing condi damage. This is not the case as just having multiple conditions on a foe drains them down within seconds with low amounts of cleanse. Conditions are also only countered by cleanse. But power is countered by evades, invulns, weakness, blinds.

Balancing a game is quite difficult, but a lot of the changes anet has made are very questionable. This patch was a step in the right direction, but it also did completely nothing for a class like engineer who already has nothing outside of scrapper. (I dont main engi, even though its my fav class)

saerni.2584:

Potential damage and sustain go hand in hand.

Generally, you need to have more sustain if players can also potentially one-shot you. HoT introduced statistics like Maurader, new stronger cleanse, enhanced blocking and evasion abilities, and better healing to compensate for increases in damage potential. The need for more damage arose because people wanted faster kill times in both PvP and PvE.

In PvE the desire came out of trying to make “harder” fights where defense mattered because the creature could kill you without a substantial increase in defensive ability. Damage and CC also increased for similar reasons.

In PvP the goal was to make fights more interesting by speeding them up. People often associate quick kills with fun and skill. The builds that could burst, yet also use the newly buffed defenses properly, became part of the burst-invuln meta where it was possible to have the best of both worlds (massive offense potential and incredible defensive potential).

If Anet nerfs damage AND defenses it will reduce the potential for a build to be both damage burst and defensive juggernauts. That’s why this patch was a first good step in that direction. Trust is low they will keep moving in that direction. It is up to Anet to keep using nerfs to bring everything back towards a balanced trade-off (damage for defense and vis versa).

Very much agreed. Although I really wish they didnt speed up combat to this point. I like to register whats going on in battle to let me know that my choices for what I do will matter in combat, besides having to spam all my osht buttons.

Ario.8964:

High crits and damage mods are a good thing imo becaue it forces investment from the player (Ex. Do they take the extra 5% damage or do they take a defense against cc passive?). It forces people to make choices for their build. I think the problem is base damage is too high so the mods get absolutely ridiculous when they get stacked. There also aren’t any counter pick traits (By that I mean they don’t do a good job of putting damage traits next to defensive sustain traits so that you have to choose one or the other, most of them are on minor traits which means everyone gets them). For crits, it’s a stat investment. You want to be able to consistently deal high damage? You gotta crit. Crit was supposed to be the stat that differed the spikers from the bruisers. Bruisers may have had at most 30% so they wouldn’t crit very often and their damage had to come from flat power whereas the spikers often had anywhere between 50 and 65% chance so you had to rely on them to get off the damage needed to fully take down a target.. This goes back to base damage being too high, if it wasn’t so present we wouldn’t have to worry about insane crits.

With ports I disagree on halving the range because that’s not only an essential part of the mobility of the classes using them, it’s necessary for them to be able to have a meaningful engage or disengage. if people can’t safely port out of aoe or out of range from someone who’s really sticking to you then there’s really no reason for ports to exist. Also, all the ports that are 1200 range (minus steal) have cds of at least 40 seconds and also serve as stunbreakers, condi clears, etc. Keep that in mind when suggesting the range nerf.

Pretty much everything else I say amen to. I think you have solid arguments and solutions. I also agree that they are problems.

Good points, and your absolutely right about trait management. It sucks having to look at dead traits that will never in any situation win over a must pick. I wanted suggest the Power/Support/Defence tree idea for having to pick and choose between the sustain or the damage or etc. but i couldnt even design that out in my head to add it to the list.

Regarding the crits, although theres times where I bring up my combat log and notice that i haven’t been getting non critted for a while you have a point. Base damage is a bit to high and I still cant get behind modifiers being ok, when I look at some that are giving 20% damage increase at specific hp percentages and it takes less then a second to get a players hp that low at times.

With ports, maybe halving the range was a stretch, but im seeing them used more as engagers then disengagers. I can understand of having the need for gap closers but some come with undodgeable CC, unless your lucky enough to anticipate an instant cast and dodge especially when there coming through the wall or any other obstacle.
Things like thief shortbow, ele teleport, mesmer phase retreat are fine with there current range and I didnt mean to change those.

Its cool that youd like to list off meta builds. But there meta for a reason. they use the most broken set up for a class, which we still have to this day, but 2x as worse since theres no counter against these new builds. You cant outlive the burst unless your a specific class with loads of sustain, and thats where another issue comes from, classes that have to much sustain with a lot of pressure.

Medi guardian was one of them. As they could burst with a good amount of sustain. I honestly dont remember signet thieves since they always played the same, high damage with ports like all other power thieves. Zerk Warrior was always a broken design, because they had high sustain + damage mitigation, with high damage.

I know they have. But it was fine since the pace of this game was slower. Meaning it was counterable and didnt result in immediate burst down of hp or being hit by a truck full of conditions (Even though mesmers could and still can). The game was ions more balanced in its previous state then in its current state minus unkillable bunkers. Which this game should not encourage but not have completely removed the bunker role from the game.

The current state of PvP is really really really unrewarding and a huge clustertruck.

What happened? Before Pre-Hot this game was decent. There were roles, viable builds that didnt just mean trying to min/max damage. If you wanted to get roughed up and be able to take on 2-3 players, it revolved around your set up and skill as well as completely outplaying your opponent. Now it just depends on what class your playing that decides if you can 2-3 for a small amount of time. Or if you win 1v1 engagements.

Precision is currently out of control in this state of game. The pace is faster, which is ok. But the amount of damage you take is what is triggering me. There are classes that can stack numbers upon numbers on your screen of high damage in half a second, most of these are just criticals. As if its more rare for them to hit you with a non critical attack. Tuning down critical chance seems like it has to be a must to make this game less chaotic in pvp and more reaction based because it will extend the duration of fights which offers more chance for rewarding decisions instead of being confused as to why 20k hp has instantly been pushed down into 3k.

Damage Modifiers, get rid of them. It’s as easy as that.

Conditions. These are currently broken as they are. Application to cleanse ratio is tipped in a very unreasonable way across all classes. A fix for this could be to lower application pressure but upping the damage per tick on damaging conditions per class. Although Some classes are ok when it comes to condition pressure as they do not deal much damage outside of their conditions alone.

Teleports. As it is now, players can cross a distance of up to atleast 2000 yards with ease as well as going through terrain to get to a player. Feeling as though halving the range on these teleports is needed as well are requiring a path, one similar to obstruction in order to teleport.

Added bugs im experiencing with this game. When a thief steals me, im instantly getting hit before the thief has even moved on my screen and hasnt even unstealthed yet. Can we please get a fix for this. Getting backstabbed/attacked before the thief has moved.

Instant cast. These should hold the least powerful effects in pvp. Having a noticeable animation is what powerful effects should have. The longer the stronger, the quicker the weaker. This is how the design for pvp should be.

Class Design. Now please, dont be biased if this pertains to your class, but. If you have mass amounts of sustain, evades, damage negation, invulnerability. Anything that makes it so you have a small window of opportunity to be attacked. You should not, in anyway, be dealing mass amounts of damage with your build. When it came to bunkers, they were not efficient in killing, but instead could take a hit. What I am noticing is that classes with bunker designs are doing the complete opposite and doing as much damage as the amt of sustains they have.

Crowd Control. Completely out of control. There is just to much in this game in the form of Soft CC and Hard CC and the amount of time it takes for one to be reused. Please, fix this issue. Add in this amazing thing called “diminishing return”. Lower the duration on CC as well. 2 seconds untraited in protection against Hard CC is enough. Soft CC could be solved with diminishing returns.

As much as i dislike the patch notes, i have to say that the change to med Pack Drop was a huge step in the right direction. It opens up support potential for the engineer that i wish we had from the start. Now after seeing this skill i was wondering, why don’t we use this skill as a base design for the MedKit itself?

Lets start with skills and changes.
Skill ToolBelt, Buffed Heals the user as well as curing conditions. Grants Regen and Resistance depending on how many conditions were cleansed.

Skill #1, Completely redesigned
When targeting an ally – Fire support darts at an ally. These darts can deal no damage but heal for base 600 health. 900 range.

Skill #2, Same skill, effect changed
Throw a bandage onto the ground that will cure a stack of bleed and poison.
+ Regen 1200 base hp over 6 seconds.
+ Double value if a condition was cleansed.
+ Engineer carries 3 stacks of bandages, each deployable bandage will minus one on the stack. Internal cooldown on each bandage.

Skill #3, Load Stimulant, Minor Redesign
Loads a stimulating dart into your Med blaster.
+ Grants the target fury as well as curing weakness, and vulnerability.
+ Upon successful cleansing, grants the target stacks of might.

Skill #4, Load Accelerant, Minor Redesign
Load a Accelerating dart into your Med blaster.
+ Grants yourself and the target Superspeed.
+ If movement impairing conditions are cleansed, grant Swiftness and Vigor to yourself and the target.

Skill #5, Rejuvenating Rain, Redesign
Load antidotes in your your med blaster and shoot them to the sky, summoning rain at the target location
+ Cleanses all conditions over time the target remains in the radius.
+ Grants resistance on the target for each condition cleared.
+ Grants Regeneration.

and for the traits I will focus on the Medkit portion.

Ingenuity Expertise [This kit] Gains added passive Benefits while equipped.
+ +30% Increase Revival speed and boon duration
+ Upon successfully reviving a ally, summon a pulsing resistance/regen field for 4 seconds.

Rubberized Darts _ Med Blaster darts (including loaded darts) now bounces on up to 3 targets, reducing healing effectiveness upon each bounce by 20%. _

Extra Dosage Double the effects of successful uses upon MedKit skills.

To dodge the burst, or to dodge the stuns. Hm, tough one.

Anyways, warrior needs to give or take, either be high sustain or high burst, not the in between. Especially with passive play. Huge no.

I would be up for this idea if they changed max targets available to be hit for certain class weapons.

Only thieves that I find unkillable are good condi daredevils. To much evasion frames mixed in with stacking dmg.

fishball.7204:

iKeostuKen.2738:

The game wasnt made with PvP in mind but more for PvE and WvW

WvW

Thanks for the laughs best joke I’ve heard in 2017

If only you remember how much they hyped up their amazing “World vs World vs World experience”. SPvP was a joke ever since they changed matches to 5v5s.

Crinn.7864:

Seriously?

The entire game’s combat system is and was designed around PvP. Do you really think that PvE is why we have active dodge mechanics, downstate, stunbreak and mobility skills?

Like seriously half the traits and 4/5ths of the utility skills are literally pointless in PvE and are only used in PvP.

At first yeah, PvE was actually challenging and then over the years it became easy as hell. There were mobs in the low level areas that would one shot and require a ton of players in order to beat certain bosses and even do events. The game wasnt made with PvP in mind but more for PvE and WvW. PvP seemed as though it was the last thing on the list but the devs wanted to be esport so bad that they bet all their cards on a mode that was destined to fail by design of the game itself. This is easily shown is a lot of skills that havent ever been in working condition for PvP.

I honestly hope the devs smarten up about the future and ditch PvP all together, SPvP should honestly get hosed for a year or 2 so they can work on more stuff and put full focus into reviving all the other aspects of the game and even introducing a ton more skills with zero regard for balance, just make skills for fun like the game should have been in the first place, limit them to PvE if you need to. So much potential wasted on such a fail mode is sad to see and I spent all my gw2 years on pvp, I myself see that PvP has really brought this game down from what it could have been.

Trevor unless they have a smoke field, that wont work.

Never noticed the blue glow. Will pay more attention to it next time i decide to actually do pvp.

No matter when I cast a CC on it, i just see Evade. Never once have i been able to land a CC on a vaulting thief unless they pause themselves. Then again if i ever managed to land one, they have a passive stun break.

Feel like it really depends on your playstyle then if you want to be using a shortbow or not. Honestly i stopped after the 100th, cannot find valid path when using it. Just decided to use P/P, Sw/D on my builds. Still have viable play from that, just not playing the role as a decapper.

Unless that 1 cleave hit does a large amt of burs, its a waste of time to even cleave the body and you yourself are just taking the un needed damage.

Just dodging it isnt always a thing since all in all they have atleast 3+ bounds, which constantly gives more vaults. About 4 before the thief needs to possibly pause before more vaults. Telling apart a bound from a vault is pretty difficult imo so blowing it on a weaker version is possible.

Skills honestly need to be able to be CCed. That would justify the damage.

Shaogin.2679:

iKeostuKen.2738:

Shaogin.2679:

iKeostuKen.2738:

BikeIsGone.8675:

iKeostuKen.2738:

Dont stay on point? Doesnt DH have ranged weapons just for that reason? Their not weak hitting weapons either.

I didn’t say “don’t fight on point” but “Kite offpoint to avoid unnecessary damage”. Node-control is a very import aspect of this game mode….and node-control ALSO means kiting offpoint if necessary.

Sure, you can tank that Lightning Overload, Thunderclap, Acid Bomb, various traps, Chaos Storm and possibly even some necro-wells and keep the point capped/decapped. But after those glorious 3 seconds (which is the amount of time you will last while tanking all of this) of milking some juicy extra points, you will die, be on respawn, have to get to that point again and THEN can start contesting it again…. while your team has to fight an outnumbered fight.

But in order to kite someone, theyd have to be willing to chase you, and not be able to hit. Otherwise your making it easier for the guardian to safely snipe you down from range. Going back in isnt wise since the traps dont unspawn and constantly going off cooldown for the guardian. Honestly they already have the point on lock down if they can set up unless you run in with invulns.

That second paragraph made me laugh xD +1

On my Necro I use “Rise” to set off the traps, on my Ranger I send in my pet, on my Engineer I block or invuln and then run right through. What class do you play? Pretty sure I can help you figure this out.

Staff Ele atm. The problem with just running through is that their traps may be off cooldown if they were already set up so its sort of blowing a potential invuln.

Nevermind, you’re playing staff Ele in PvP. This explains alot. Not sure anyone can help you.

As far as him laying new traps though, that isn’t a problem. You saw him lay them. You know exactly where they are, simple dodge roll through you just made him waste more traps.

You say it as if its a bad thing lol. Staff ele brings in great support. Mender/Magi having a 422k+ healing done after matches with mostly 2v3s.

Never said i agreed with what trever said.

That mindset is of needing to bring a certain weapon if your barely using is is kind of weird. Its not a staple to any thief build, it adds buggy mobility and should only be used if your playing as a decapper. If your team is already holding 2/3 of the points then shortbow loses its purpose unless your spamming poison fields on downed player.

Why would they be counter cleaving instead of rezzing the player up?

5k at most, idk if thats true, the fact is 5k is still a lot of damage on a spammable skill with evasion + damage from bounding evasion being comboed right after..

Shaogin.2679:

iKeostuKen.2738:

BikeIsGone.8675:

iKeostuKen.2738:

Dont stay on point? Doesnt DH have ranged weapons just for that reason? Their not weak hitting weapons either.

I didn’t say “don’t fight on point” but “Kite offpoint to avoid unnecessary damage”. Node-control is a very import aspect of this game mode….and node-control ALSO means kiting offpoint if necessary.

Sure, you can tank that Lightning Overload, Thunderclap, Acid Bomb, various traps, Chaos Storm and possibly even some necro-wells and keep the point capped/decapped. But after those glorious 3 seconds (which is the amount of time you will last while tanking all of this) of milking some juicy extra points, you will die, be on respawn, have to get to that point again and THEN can start contesting it again…. while your team has to fight an outnumbered fight.

But in order to kite someone, theyd have to be willing to chase you, and not be able to hit. Otherwise your making it easier for the guardian to safely snipe you down from range. Going back in isnt wise since the traps dont unspawn and constantly going off cooldown for the guardian. Honestly they already have the point on lock down if they can set up unless you run in with invulns.

That second paragraph made me laugh xD +1

On my Necro I use “Rise” to set off the traps, on my Ranger I send in my pet, on my Engineer I block or invuln and then run right through. What class do you play? Pretty sure I can help you figure this out.

Staff Ele atm. The problem with just running through is that their traps may be off cooldown if they were already set up so its sort of blowing a potential invuln.

Because shortbow isnt needed?

As a Ele, I do use shocking aura. Half the time i dont even see the effect working as there is no interruption, and im still getting hit multiple times.

Counter cleave it? I mean, staff ele would be the best bet for landing damage, and then the dmg is weak and evasion frames are pretty inconsistent at times since if I do sometimes time an atk as they land, it doesnt even register for some strange reason.

You dont have to run daredevil runes, could be using something like scholar and still get the same effects from it without having to blow your evades.

Why are you vaulting in stealth? Wouldnt the most logical thing to do be, stealth up, go in with stealth + backstab, swap to staff and then start vaulting following it up with bounds for some easy intiative regen and vigor upkeep? Even though stealth wouldnt be needed if you even get the drop on someone.

Pick up acrobatics and you basically have a massive amount of evasion time. Making you gain easy initiative per dodge, gain all your endurance back if someone manages to land a stun on you, and constantly have unstrippable vigor.

BikeIsGone.8675:

iKeostuKen.2738:

Dont stay on point? Doesnt DH have ranged weapons just for that reason? Their not weak hitting weapons either.

I didn’t say “don’t fight on point” but “Kite offpoint to avoid unnecessary damage”. Node-control is a very import aspect of this game mode….and node-control ALSO means kiting offpoint if necessary.

Sure, you can tank that Lightning Overload, Thunderclap, Acid Bomb, various traps, Chaos Storm and possibly even some necro-wells and keep the point capped/decapped. But after those glorious 3 seconds (which is the amount of time you will last while tanking all of this) of milking some juicy extra points, you will die, be on respawn, have to get to that point again and THEN can start contesting it again…. while your team has to fight an outnumbered fight.

But in order to kite someone, theyd have to be willing to chase you, and not be able to hit. Otherwise your making it easier for the guardian to safely snipe you down from range. Going back in isnt wise since the traps dont unspawn and constantly going off cooldown for the guardian. Honestly they already have the point on lock down if they can set up unless you run in with invulns.

That second paragraph made me laugh xD +1

No access to stealth as a staff thief? Do people forget about x / pistol? Bounding into it grants stealth so you don’t even need heartseeker or shortbow.

Staff can be really useful in teamfights as you evade into combat with the potential of doing high burst during chaos of the battle. Can even lock down rezzers by vault spamming on a downed player.

Smoking some stuff if you really wanna try to justify the damage on vault. Especially if thieves have 90% evasion time during a fight. Then again I play ele so one vault is basically a death sentence for me, and stopping one from flipping around requires a high amount of luck when it comes to latency and cast times. Lucky if I dont randomly get hit by a blind during a CC cast.

The smart ones toss on intelligence sigils.

Dont stay on point? Doesnt DH have ranged weapons just for that reason? Their not weak hitting weapons either.

Hot did in fact kill any sort of competitive aspect for this game, especially in regards to pvp. Elite specs are one of the reasons for this. They are built around playing passively which the game should have never been about in the first place. Damage was ramped up to an all new level which made fights to quick. The most viable way of negating the ramped up damage is to basically be pushed into being a elite spec since they have tons of built in defenses:

Thieves have loads of evades now, timing isnt really necessary when its easily replenishable, ontop of that, given a low cd block.

Warriors, already had good passive defenses. Feel as though that even those they had got buffed.

Mesmers, already had enough defenses + invis. Now its basically doubled without needing to drop deceptive evasion in order to have a reliable source of illusion upkeep, chronomancer basically took over when it comes to that.

Druids, just heal through stuff. Smokescale does most their dmg for them so they can focus on staying alive more.

Reapers, function the same, just a lot more dmg.

Eles, got bunker nerfed just to receive a spec for bunkering? I dont even know.

Dragon hunters, the amount of blocks and invunerablities for this class is just ridiculous.

Scrapper, 2-3 of hammers skills are basically defensive. More then its shield actually.

Most of these have a lot of resources on damage negation with little downsides of taking them. It killed any aspect of having to build defensively by just incorporating the stuff into the class itself, toughness isnt needed when you can just negate most of the damage itself, allowing everyone to just simply be able to build for damage which kills build diversity.

In a way its sort of P2W because without having access to elite specs you cant really compete on the same level if you and another player were on equal skill level when using a class.

Elite specs would be completely fine if they had give and take. But in this case, it gives and doubles that.

Amaimon.7823:

PvP seems pretty vibrant and active for a dead thing… are you sure you don’t wanna try this topic again?

Your denial is showing.

Hyper Cutter.9376:

iKeostuKen.2738:

Yes because me not being around 1 meta means I don’t know about bunker. Yep that make sense. Anet kitten the game up when it powercreeped and buffed every classes damage, but they did nothing for people who like to play defensively besides giving them classes with a abnormal amount of blocks, evades, invuln frames, etc.

They added just as much defensive power creep as offensive, maybe even more. They ended up having to remove all those defensive amulets for a reason.

Yeah i’ve been noticing. Guardians, Warriors, Mesmer running around with massive amounts of damage negation even while being specced for damage :/ Should have seriously toned elite specs first before resorting to removing the amulets still. Wasnt a amulet problem, but a class design issue.

Yes because me not being around 1 meta means I don’t know about bunker. Yep that make sense. Anet kitten the game up when it powercreeped and buffed every classes damage, but they did nothing for people who like to play defensively besides giving them classes with a abnormal amount of blocks, evades, invuln frames, etc.

Yes they SHOULD have balanced pvp around skills and traits, they didn’t and screwed up the system and now defensive builds are suffering, which is why NOW they actually do need to buff the stat to bring out its true function. Adding in condition duration reduction or even condition damage reduction to toughness will help reduce the TTK for players who do choose to run toughness, its whole point for existence.

And yes the game is most definitely centered around burst damage, anyone can see that.

I always laugh at people who say the balance is the best its been. Please, dont even joke around. The Balance is at a all time low because its now split 4 ways.

Core Bad – Core Meta
Elite Bad – Elite Meta

Warriors are also running amuck doing serious amount of damage with plenty of passive defensive skills.

Thieves with many frames of evade, bugged teleports hitting players at range with dagger.

Just examples of how horrible the game is now, there a PLENTY more. Nothing is really balanced, its almost a bigger joke then Diablo 3 pvp.

With lag, trying to time when to attack isnt particularly easy to do. Seen thieves bound and vault into blocks and endurance healing skills for more vaults and bounds when you do manage to actually catch them. Very unrewarding gameplay.

Nah, actually used to be a condi mesmer main who thinks the game is to easy and can see the problems with conditions. Thief is my least played class besides warrior because i find them to be really braindead to play as.

Im not good myself which is why i know if i can easily beat players with condi spam that something is wrong.

Being a engineer that specialized in burn builds, i see how cheap it is when on the other foot as stacking burns is childs play as a engi, when my abilities actually do want to hit their target. Meaning not missing a point blank blowtorch to someones face cause game says nope.

Bleeds wont ever really be bursty unless your a ranger or thief that specializes in them. Ticking faster makes them more unique then any other condition. But like someone else said, bleeds should reach their real damage potential when a player is below a certain amount of hp, makes sense.

Conditions should actually have conditions of effectiveness instead of just being DoTs. Burns wills till be the most damaging condition, but as stated before, itl have an actual condition to achieve its real potential, duration. Hell if you wanna keep players condition damage on it fine, but make it so the damage racks up instead of being dealt instantly. Starting low and then ending high if it stays on the player.

Forsty.7968:

-snip-

No, I dont remember Minstrel druid, because once HoT beta hit, I already saw what direction this game was going and jumped off ship.

Im saying people actually do have to rely on them because thats the system we have now, its full of them. Look at the warrior, basically everything is passive trigger and their one of the ones who can actually take toughness while also being viable because of so many passive defenses they have ontop of being more tanky.

PvP was dropping long before, even teams that were going for Esports explained why they didnt find Gw2 pvp enjoyable.Balance was out of wack but they shouldnt be balancing the game around amulets in the first place. They should have been balancing it on class skills and traits. Bunker was healthy for the game, it allowed for team synergy, roles and even class diversity. But they way they implemented it just wasn’t the best.

Game honestly is a lot worse with them gone for those reasons, Its now focused around burst damage, less then 5 second fights unless loads of damage negation is available. Its not fun to watch, its really not fun to play imo. The quick TTK just makes for “eh ok”, moments instead of learning what to do against certain abilities and skills like the old days where you could actually understand what was going on in fights more then now.

Because stacking duration increases damage per second. Pretty easy to understand. Not blowing all your burns quickly and spacing them out is how itl be effective. Teammates reapplying burns is how the dmg will keep going up to a capped amt of dmg.

Vitali.5039:

iKeostuKen.2738:

As it only effects burning, i’m pretty sure it’d be fine as other conditions will still be able to stack with intensity.

What about burning guardian and P/P Engineer?

How much damage one does shouldn’t really matter in team play if the target still dies. Just makes it less cheesy for both the attacker and the defender.

Ok, so if someone is jumping and just hit the enemy to deal no damage it’ll be fine if his mates will kill the target? So wise..

Engineers have access to more conditions then just burning. If anything theyl be able to keep burns up the most. Gaurdians as well, but they have extra utility when it comes to their burn skills so it makes up for it.

I mean, its basically what we already have. Blinds, Aegis, Blocks, Invulns etc. Power misses and is negated by a lot of things in this game.

Not even sure why you guys keep saying they will deal no damage when they add duration ontop of the already burning stacks. 4 seconds of burn would basically be 1.2k dmg, constantly going up by intervals every second. Basically what we have now but with more counterplay to counter condition spam in pvp. The “me me me” mentality is ridiculous these days.

Forsty.7968:

iKeostuKen.2738:

Forsty.7968:

iKeostuKen.2738:

This is honestly a good idea imo. Toughness really is a useless stat to take at any point because no matter how much armor you have you will still be burst down within seconds.

LOL

We have considered toughness as pretty much the most important stat in the game for some time. It obviously depends on what youre playing but toughness should not be made any more effective than it is.

In PvP? Are you serious? Looking at peoples builds its mostly anything that provides vital unless its a full glass build. Toughness is rarely chosen or even needed by many classes. Look at how the Meta is right now it shows how underused any form of toughness is.

https://metabattle.com/wiki/Conquest

And why do you think that is? All the amulets that had good stat combinations with toughness are gone. That hard to understand? They needed to be removed. Now if you could be kitten d to even look at what youre talking about before you say something, you would scroll down this page https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/PvP_Build and see that every single one of the runes and amulets that were removed had toughness in them. Toughness was something that should never be brought to that level again as it was creating incredibly stale gameplay.

One could even argue to nerf toughness as a stat but since the amulets are not in the game anymore its not needed, at least in pvp. Toughness is fine as it is as long as they keep giving us badly stated toughness amulets or ones with low toughness like wanderer and paladins although paladins is almost going too far with it already.

Yes, because the removal of those amulets surely made the pvp 100% fail proof. With the powercreep and overtuned damage this game literally has dropped to an all time low because the only counterplay really is having a class with large amounts of evades, blocks, invulns and condition clears. Even with 1200 toughness with the current amulets you are still basically glass regardless if these amulets made a comeback or not.

Toughness is not fine as it is by itself, it doesnt serve much of a purpose when players cant build to withstand more damage without relying on passives procs to do most of the work for them. Even worse now since basically every attack applies a condition in this game.

Forsty.7968:

iKeostuKen.2738:

This is honestly a good idea imo. Toughness really is a useless stat to take at any point because no matter how much armor you have you will still be burst down within seconds.

LOL

We have considered toughness as pretty much the most important stat in the game for some time. It obviously depends on what youre playing but toughness should not be made any more effective than it is.

In PvP? Are you serious? Looking at peoples builds its mostly anything that provides vital unless its a full glass build. Toughness is rarely chosen or even needed by many classes. Look at how the Meta is right now it shows how underused any form of toughness is.

https://metabattle.com/wiki/Conquest

Pretty cheesy when that damage is covered by loads of evade time lol. Hopefully when they ever decide to balance the game, thatl be toned down in the first wave.

Sigmoid.7082:

“As i’ve said before. This is directed towards PvP.”

The the links may be pve centric but they were still and issue in pvp. You couldnt take more than one condi class because you stepped on someone elses toes. If you refuse to see that then thats your issue. Again imagine not being able to do power damage because someone else is attacking your target and tell me how frustrating and un-intuative that would be? Please go ahead. Did you play the game when conditions stacked in duration? (June 23rd 2015)

“What the changes i suggested do is provide a more active way to play the game”

Your changes are convoluted and un-untiative. Its not more active or fun. Its needlessly changing things to be frustrating to some players, confusing to others and in general overly complicated.

As it only effects burning, i’m pretty sure it’d be fine as other conditions will still be able to stack with intensity. How much damage one does shouldn’t really matter in team play if the target still dies. Just makes it less cheesy for both the attacker and the defender. And yes i did play back then, that’s when the game actually felt unique and classes had more specific roles instead of being one many army.

Your glad to have your opinion, but as it stands right now, the current system thats currently in the game is basically one of the reasons why PvP has lost a lot of players, and isn’t receiving any esport support. Why? Because the game is basically a mess. And what you described is basically what happens when any class is buffed or nerfed. But its ok if you rather have a mindless system if you find that more fun.

As i’ve said before. This is directed towards PvP. I honestly could care less about any other mode of the game and believe each mode should be separated. Havent even played PvE since year one because it was honestly to easy of a game. What the changes i suggested do is provide a more active way to play the game, for the condi and non condi players. More thinking and not just press buttons to win. But actual planning on how to use skills and countering them instead of having OhSht or kill kill kill buttons.

The way pvp is now is honestly pathetic, and it shows, and things need to change for the better. Moving towards a system that increases a players ability to think ahead in battle is one of them instead of just having to stack condition clears, stun breaks, etc.

And please just stop with the, “Im dieing to conditions”, nonsense. I dont meta build and basically theory craft many different builds to play among my favorite classes. Even if my builds aren’t the best, I myself see how ridiculously easy it is to play condition builds, especially when I’m on my mesmer.

Sigmoid.7082:

iKeostuKen.2738:

Sigmoid.7082:

iKeostuKen.2738:

Sigmoid.7082:

-Snip-

And that change is one of the reasons why its broken for PvP. Achieving high stacks of burn is to easy as it is, which is why burning over duration is better. Working as a team to keep the burn active is what should be what the focus.

Completely get rid of the condition damage aspect of it. Make it work for duration exclusively.

So people should work as a team to maintain one source of power damage? Why should a players capability be dependant on someone else if they built their character around one thing?

You cant remove the condition damage aspect of it since its the burst damage condition. comparatively speaking burn has shorter duration that any other condition in game. If you removed the scaling aspect then anyone would and will end up doing high damage with burn.

Nobody likes negative feedback but the idea is just bad and full of holes. If the Balance team wanted to reduce the effectiveness of burning they already have so many options.

Why should a damage over time condition be bursting anyone?

Does Teamwork really bug you that much? Its not like it requires much management as there are classes that proc burns with no problem, on top of other conditions I must add. Burns as with most conditions have long duration also. Not sure why you think they have some of the shortest, are you speccing for Expertise?

If burn is cleansed then they will have to reapply it, in which it starts to re rack up on damage afterwards starting from 200-400, and gradually increases over prolonged duration. Burn should just be flatout damage across the board with this change.

Does it bother you THAT much that condition in this game arent classical slow damage? You can have power or condi burst, sustain etc etc. There is no difference between what they cant do. You are only limiting yourself and the game if you think one has to conform to anything in particular. People need to stop being locked in the paradigm that damage over time means slow.

No teamwork doesnt bother me but why should a player be constrained in what they can do based on their team? Why should player A, who has specced for condi damage and burns be denied the full use of their build since someone else applies weaker burns on auto, on field etc etc.. Imagine not being able to land a back stab/killshow/eviserate/gravedigger/executioners scythe/ maul/true shot etc etc because someone is auto attacking..people would go nuts. Read my post carefully. I said and imply that by comparison burns as a group on average tend to have shorter durations than any other condition in the game ;bleeds have the longest overall as a group . Its a fact because its how they were designed.

If burn was flat damage then it would have WAY to many problems. Similar to might stacking builds of the past.

What are the many options of making burn damage better besides tuning the numbers on it?

• Duration (trates, sigils, base )
• Condi damage scaling
• Base damage ( because unlike power with is total multiplicitive condis have a base )
• Number of stacks per skill
• Trait/skill counters ( looking at you stop drop and roll / hide in the shadows and the like )
• Visibility of skills that apply burn ( seen what happened to pin down, point blank shot, air blast etc )
• Cooldown of skills/traits that apply it

etc

It bothers me how poorly implemented it is in a game, yes. If things wanted to kill quickly then that is what power/precision builds are for. Conditions should not be able to go toe to toe in that position for fastest TTK.

No player will be constrained if its implemented correctly. Since applying duration is key. If a player is only focusing on one aspect of dealing damage then that is them constraining themselves. Only Guardians would be the ones to suffer from not being able to deal other conditons, but they have additional tools on top of keeping burn pressure going when it comes to their skills.

The team’s burn applications add together in duration, similar to boons. Not really sure how it would be short duration if multiple players are making sure to keep it up with minimal effort. Condition builds are really not hard to play.

A lot of those are basically just tuning the numbers. Functionality, imo, needs to be changed for it to be a more unique condition, or else it would just be a more dangerous bleed as it is now. Having burn means you dont really need any other condition unless its to add a buffer to counter cleansing.

Also this is a pvp specific change, wouldn’t even touch PvE.

Sigmoid.7082:

iKeostuKen.2738:

Sigmoid.7082:

-Snip-

And that change is one of the reasons why its broken for PvP. Achieving high stacks of burn is to easy as it is, which is why burning over duration is better. Working as a team to keep the burn active is what should be what the focus.

Completely get rid of the condition damage aspect of it. Make it work for duration exclusively.

So people should work as a team to maintain one source of power damage? Why should a players capability be dependant on someone else if they built their character around one thing?

You cant remove the condition damage aspect of it since its the burst damage condition. comparatively speaking burn has shorter duration that any other condition in game. If you removed the scaling aspect then anyone would and will end up doing high damage with burn.

Nobody likes negative feedback but the idea is just bad and full of holes. If the Balance team wanted to reduce the effectiveness of burning they already have so many options.

Why should a damage over time condition be bursting anyone?

Does Teamwork really bug you that much? Its not like it requires much management as there are classes that proc burns with no problem, on top of other conditions I must add. Burns as with most conditions have long duration also. Not sure why you think they have some of the shortest, are you speccing for Expertise?

If burn is cleansed then they will have to reapply it, in which it starts to re rack up on damage afterwards starting from 200-400, and gradually increases over prolonged duration. Burn should just be flatout damage across the board with this change.

What are the many options of making burn damage better besides tuning the numbers on it?

Sigmoid.7082:

-Snip-

And that change is one of the reasons why its broken for PvP. Achieving high stacks of burn is to easy as it is, which is why burning over duration is better. Working as a team to keep the burn active is what should be what the focus.

Completely get rid of the condition damage aspect of it. Make it work for duration exclusively.

Zintrothen.1056:

Bleeding is absolutely not fine. Some specs can unleash insane stacks of bleeding for too long of a duration. Other specs do weak bleeding damage with too low of a duration. Bleeding, IMO, should be a weak but long lasting condition. Perhaps it should also function differently with cleanses. Bleeding can have the advantage of keeping you combat longer due to its duration and regular cleansing doesn’t work, but it does more damage depending on your health. So at 100% hp, it does little damage, but at 25% hp, it does 4x the damage as an example. This’ll help healing have a greater impact against it too. Think about it this way too. There’s nothing magical about bleeding, so how does “cleansing” work against it? Healing on the other hand, can heal wounds that cause bleeding, and a bigger wound is going to bleed more, so healing fixes wounds, and thus, less bleeding.

I like the idea of burning being cleanses on dodge rolling. It makes sense, just like bigger wounds increase blood loss.

Chill effecting skill recharge is fine with me, but it needs to be 33% at most. Movement speed could also be effected, but only by 25% at most.

Crippling is fine as is IMO.

I agree that poison is fine, but there should be fewer sources of it because of its powerful effect.

I like the idea of torment doing no damage when not moving, but then it should probably do even more damage while moving. This change has a strong effect on PvE, as bad torment is in PvE.

There’s no need for diminishing returns on stuns. CC just needs to be reduced overall. Diminishing returns doesn’t solve the issue of there being too many CCs in the game from elite specs. Fewer CCs will also make their use require more skill and timing because they can no longer be seemingly spammed.

I honestly know of Thieves and Rangers who inflict major loads of bleed, and possibly Warriors. But i do like the aspect of bleeding more or less depending on who much health the player has, that’s a really cool idea.

Chill, still sort of feel like the skill charge increase shouldn’t be there. Maybe slower cast times, but thats basically what slow is.

Regarding poison, i think as long as their is runes and sigils that proc it, it will always be here. Is this mostly a Adventurer class specific condition also? I cant think of any other class outside the the adventurer school that has access to poison without runes and sigils. Besides Necro.

The torment change definitely should be split between game modes since it could/would effect PvE.

I also only suggested cripple change due to chill being a lot better. But also agreeing that CC needs to be completely tuned down, especially given how much their in in this game.

Shaogin.2679:

The only thing I can agree with is Torment shouldn’t deal much damage if the target is standing still, but they changed that due to PvE. They could split how Torment works between game modes I suppose.

As for the rest, I see no attempt to make conditions more unique, but rather to unnecessarily nerf conditions across the board. Thankfully, these are the types of changes that will never make it in game.

Idk how these wouldnt make conditions more unique. Its changes to bring out their true strengths while also getting rid of their sketchy unneeded effects. Makes fora much healthier pvp experience.

Sigmoid.7082:

Burning – Damage will now be added up overtime instead of having a flat out burn burst of damage. Instead of stacking in damage, it will now just be stacking in duration. Evading cleanses burns.

Me/Someone else attempting to do damage to someone should never stop someone else/me doing damage to someone. Its one of the reasons the stack cap was changes from is tech limited calculation intensive issue as well as why most things now stack in duration.

Imagine if you started hitting 0’s on someone since someone else was hitting them first but took priority.

It wouldnt really be stopping anyone from doing damage. As it would continue to stack the duration of the condition per application. This will bring out more condition duration builds if they plan to focus on Burning or whatever else that plans to add damage overtime on effects.

Feeling like Conditions have truly lost their identity. Basically some overlap in what they are truly needed for, making them have the same function which is bursting/High damage overtime, but even the unique conditions have been pushed into not being as unique anymore as well.

Torment - The player should really be taking little to no damage from torment if they are not moving. Could just remove damage on standing still

Confusion - Confusion should not be effecting auto attacks, this will bring counter play outside of just cleansing the condition. Every other skill will continue to be effected by confusion. Remove is passive tick damage if target is performing no actions other then Auto attack.

Burning - Damage will now be added up overtime instead of having a flat out burn burst of damage. Instead of stacking in damage, it will now just be stacking in duration. Evading cleanses burns.

Bleeding - Is perfectly fine, needs to have faster ticks.

Poison - Fine as it is, has the healing reduction purpose.

Chill - Removed:Does not effect skill recharge.

Cripple - Added: Increases energy use on evades.

Immobolize - Instead of stopping the player, it makes it so they cannot evade.
Can also just be removed from the game.

Stuns - Diminishing returns. This is to help reduce CC spam and reward players for stunning at the right time instead of punishing the opponent before they have a chance.

Weakness - Only effects reducing damage.

Fear - This is ok.

Blind - Only allow players to be blinded from the front.

Daze - This is fine. Fix passive Dazing done by game mechanics though. Randomly have skills go on cooldown and not actually have its effects used is a big bummer.

Vulnerability - This is fine.

Ragnar.4257:

Crinn.7864:

Ragnar.4257:

I wonder if you apply the same logic to Spiteful Spirit?

Literally every class has instant-cast skills which are basically un-dodgeable (other than the “i reckon he’s gonna use that soon” dodge).

Last time I checked spiteful spirit doesn’t 1-bang you from 40% hp. Also in-combat instants can be anticipated. Alphas coming from players that are on the far side of a mountain can’t.

With certain sigil/trait procs, it can actually…… much in the same way that Mug by itself doesn’t 1-shot, it takes various other conditions.

But you do understand that that is basically Thief’s entire reason to exist? How would you compensate thieves to be competitive in telegraphed, on-node, in-line-of-sight fights?

Funny how OP went out of their way to not mention thief, but we all know what they meant.

Or he could be talking about guardians…cause they do have the build that does 10k+ dmg on teleport.

100% agree with the op. Teleports that jump to targets need to be tone down, especially get rid of being able to cast them through walls and terrain if theirs no LoS.

Ports that are free form, where you actually have to choose where to go are completely fine as they are though.