metabattle isnt out of date. ele is.
y seven and i were in the same guild and i do roam on staff too. seven points also out the skill lvl of his oponents btw ^^
you jump between pvp and roaming at your will fully ignoring the fact that thiefs have a very special purpose in pvp and the fact that there arnt any power mesmers and staff eles on higher lvls. when it comes to roaming. do whatever you enjoy. its not that ele is top of the ladder by any means.
no point in arguing with you anyway. feels like a discussion over colours with a blind man.
<3
(edited by shinta.8906)
staff is mostly a teamfight weapon while its supporting option doesnt need u to sacrifice a lot of dps as it is mostly a trait and food switch.
solowise in 1v1 staff ele is tough as nails to play correctly vs anybody who knows what they up against but for those liking the challenge its possible to a certain degree.
(edited by shinta.8906)
i liked the arcana choice u did there. it gives u so much more utility and option while still doing pressure.
that said, its so far away from being viable in wvw as it can get with the condi removal it has and the classes wvw preferes.
that the grandmaster trait everyone put his hope into was kinda the same as a pvp sigill in the end and is hopefully not the coherence i fear.
nevertheless i enjoyed watching your video.
(edited by shinta.8906)
after years of chill being our cryptonite and mainly that because of its effect on our atunement cd i scratch my head to the bottom of my feet what inspiration overcame the creator to actually advertise that as our next elite spec.
thats what i told u. its the second pve xpac for ele that long for a solo build in pvp/wvw. so no point stating that pve is the biggest gamemode – as in its allright that sword is as it is – when i made clear that the point im talking from came from pvp/wvw.
the best way to form an opinion is anyway to go out there and try out esp in a safe gameenvironment. dont rely on what ppl say and feel confused about it.
@feanor
warhorn is allrdy a pve weapon and dmg tempest was too. i stated this allrdy in beta xpac 1 that it will end like this in combination with boonshare. btw its the same clunkyness and lack of defensive capabilities as now that held back warhorn and core. core got held together because of dura runes and dmg reduction food. thats it.
@aiden
i ran sc/d freshair it does dmg the weakness is the same weakness that held back ele and temp before in pvp/wvw terms. there was a reason outside of healbot nothing was considered meta allthough it might have worked somehow on some special occasions and scenarios.
its basicly a pve class as it is that got held together for a while with its dmg that was able to cover the fundamental flaws the class has in offensive and in defensive areas. now count the nerfs to the dmg areas in the nearest past.
in offensive areas half the skills aint working vs invisible foes (for some sets its 90%), have huge casttimes and/or need to be directed with small cones. thats medieval when u start to compare it to skills of the top pvp classes. imagine a thief requiring a target in range to shadowport on sword – hack they even cry cause they cant use their steal w/o target now but have more mobility on their rifle than weaver.
i said this very thing before., thats fundamental and has nothing to do with numbers. the dmg numbers for that could be infinite high when the chances to land it are zero its worthless in pvp. warhorn shoved that allrdy.
as i watched the guildchat stream i allrdy knew looking at the low numbers sword pulled out on marau on a golem (best possible matchup) while being 130 range this is next lvl pve stuff. sword has very low possibilities to follow a visible target kiting it and even zero for an invisible one. how do u think this matches them saying “you weave in and out of fight”? sorry i dont see it working with just numbers adressed. again.
(edited by shinta.8906)
hoped for sc/d
air 212
earth 123 (global cd kills the oportunity to react to power bursts)
weav 332 (unravel hexes not cleansing any usefull conditions)
if they d get those two things right u would have a power spec that has good cleanses + could deal with dmg threats without relying on boons while still being able to get countered by condi bursts and stealth.
(edited by shinta.8906)
they honestly should stop to test stuff out on stationary targets which will only result in pve numbers.
add to lowest hp (guard base! gm gives what 3k hp?), lowest armor the following:
- very bad condi clear – unravel hexes needs to be w/o cd for all conditions
- very bad dodge and evade uptime
- very bad block uptime
- very bad invurln uptime
- no stealth
- very bad options to stick to your target or get away from it (the range of movement skills is plane to short and offers nothing to avoid dmg or cc while doing it)
- very very bad boon application be it defensive or offensive ( now there are even perma quick firebrands and perma quick + 25 might deadeys around who all get it on the fly, not to mention holo, scrapper, mesmer, druid, ranger.. they all get access to 25 might on the fly, yet we stuck in clunky rotations you dont get to use in pvp/wvw)
- subpar boon application which is easily converted
- now even reactive gameplay got killed of by making it preemptivly. defensivly u are anyway subpar to anything else out there but to even get access to that u need to think ahead?! give me a break.
the gm traits are either a + on dmg, a condi cleanse for soft cc on a 15 sec cd?, or a minimal barrier for that u offer a dodge to gain (barrier 380 vs dodge -100%???).
this screams pve
i get that pve players are happy about some numbers on stationary targets and this again will hold this class back in terms of being competitive in pvp/wvw. for the laters it offers nothing as it is and i dont see it work even with just tweaking offensive numbers.
the class as a whole lacks utility usefull and uptodate for pvp something u cant gain by just tweaking numbers.
mainly tried sd fresh air
pros: the dmg is better as the new weaved skills hit far easier
cons:
- unravel hexes cd (that it doesnt work will prolly get fixed asap) but the cooldown kills it anyway
- esp on sd 90% of the skills arnt useable vs stealthed oponents
- global cooldown kills the fun
- global cooldown kills the possibility to get to our anyway subpar defensive skills
- ele is in dire dire need of defense outside of easy to corrupt protection
it felt as someone stated before: u do twice the amount of work to get max half of what anyone else get via one button.
holo got everything i wanted for weave.
ty for clearing this up.
cause cd reduction trait doesnt work.
im mostly hyped for twist of fate:
https://youtu.be/i7gGYfBxlJ8?t=135
we should start to talk about underwater skills!
a better view on things:
Sword Skills so far seen in wp stream + with wp gear numbers:
__________________________________________________________________
Fire
Fire Strike•••••••1/2s cast•••••••481 dmg•••••••130 range
Fire Swipe•••••••3/4s•••••••••••••561•••••••••••••130
Searing Slash•••3/4s•••••••••••••910•••••••••••••130•••••••2 burn stacks 4s
Flame Uprising••3/4s•••••••••••728+364•••••••450/180 radius•••••••1 burn stack 5,5 sec, 1 sec intervall
Cauterizing Strikle••3/4s•••••••910/1274 on burned foes•••180•••••••2 burn stacks 5,5 s
__________________________________________________________________
Water
Seiche (1of3 AA?)••••1/2s••••••••••••••251••••••••••••130•••••••72 healing
Riptide••••••••••••••1s••••••••••••••2x508•••••••••••- … -•••••••5s regen + waterfield 5 pulses 429 healing – leap back + evade 1,75 s
Twin Strike (F/W)••3/4s••••••••••••2x1156•••••••••- …-•••••••••••chill 4s + 2 burn 5s + barrier
__________________________________________________________________
Air
No AA seen
Polaric Leap•••••••••1/2s••••••••••••240••••••••••••••450••••••••••leap + 3/4s daze + superspeed 2s
Shearing Edge (W/A)••1/2s•••••••728••••••••••••••600••••••••••••••vigor + chill 3s
__________________________________________________________________
400 Barrier on all #3 skills
3sec icd global on atuneswitch
__________________________________________________________________
Adept
1••Superior Elements••dual skills cause 4s weakness and 7% dmg bonus on weakened foes
2••Sign looks like a Superspeed trait
3••Masters Fortitude••+120 vita when using sword and vita of 5% of pow+5% of condi
Master
1••Weavers Prowess••on atune-switch for 8s +10% condi dmg and 20% condi duration
2••Swift Revenge••gain 4s swift on dual wield and gain 75 dmg bonus under the effect of swift/ss
3••Lesser Stone Resonance••gain 4s stab on activating stance + LSR on 50% hp
GM
1••Elements of Rage••10% dmg bonus when single atunement and gain fero 145 based on power
2••Unravel Hexes••3s superspeed on criiple/immob/chill + lose condi every 1/2s under the effect of ss
3••Invigorating Strikes••grants 3s vigor on dualwield skills and 857 barrier on dodging
__________________________________________________________________
the elite looks like a real elite so far!
(edited by shinta.8906)
did somebody counted all the amazing skills saying block, unblockable or evade?
(edited by shinta.8906)
zoomout dragon scene in the trailer of xpac2 shows at last on the left side a warrior like character (the left of the two big ones while zooming out). he had dagger main & sword offhand.
@atreyu
signet vs glyph heal
depends on situation and class u encounter.
one of the good things of sevens dd ele build is the boonduration right? u dont have that on sf usually. but glyphs are the offensive approach of arcana line. both – arcana and glyph together – kinda substitude boonduration. vs power u prolly want to prolong protection on you, so you heal in earth and vs condi classes you gain an extra clearance in water.
the heal might by slightly better with signet but signet isnt good vs classes who spike you but glyph is.
with glyph heal up you can also didge earth line and chose water line which is arguably better in this condi meta.
but in the end its about how you feel on it. just my thoughts on why glyphs arnt bad at all and why i also use them.
so thats what saved karl. ty for keep searching for hidden potentials even though..
i still differ too between ele and tempest as the playstyles are so unconnected towards eatchother ^^
nothing wrong with that hammer dmg either huh?
stop aa and use ur skills like field of mists or facet of light to stomp. problem solved.
it is actually not quite easy to interrupt a dp thief ^^ the cd of most classes dont even start to compare to the amount of times a thief could do this not to mention the casttime doing so. thats that, the other thing is, the thief lands his p5 on target, so whatever attempt of interrupting u might try u will miss.
if that argument of u would be right than rupt pow mesmer would be all over any thief out there.
if u than still had somehow managed to interrupt the thief whatever his missplay, than the mentioned above other on top defense mechanic will start by meaning dodging untill he has acces to his initiative again.
now there are those who argue, a thief dodging and or being stealthed means he cant do dmg either. the same goes for his oponent, so its a stall invalid argument whereass one class is losing cd and the other gaining it.
(edited by shinta.8906)
as i said, ofc thiefs would try to protect their upperhand thats caused by stacking stealth. if u would want that still just chose bound.
chosen bound would therefor mean that u r not anymore immune to soft cc but it would others classes allow to start some sort of counter play. additionally there wouldnt be a split between 2 on top defensiv mechanics anymore as the general dodge amounts would get minimized by using them to gain stealth and or by the use of another healskill.
its a mainly wvw focused suggestion as i stated above and lets not act like dp thiefs with bound are weak in anyway.
(edited by shinta.8906)
make heartseeker require a target.
yeah im an ele player and some might try to put this in the perspective as a cry for nerf.
in fact i would argue that it would be a nerf in terms of pvp. in terms of pvp it would maybe make the choice between unhindered combatant and bound smaller and the choice of ur role either dmg or decap more equal. yet shortbow is anyway the way to go in terms of decapabilities. stealth stacking not very often via heartseeker used anyway.
in wvw terms it would maybe open up a bit of counterplay to this grievy mess called ghostthief. additionally dp thiefs who r currently holding 2 of the probably 3 best defensive capabilities – stealth and dodge – would probably go for bound to maintain their advantage. yet atleast bound would open up a way of counterplay for any other class as the soft cc immunity would force the thief to make the choice between da or acro and withdraw or channeled vigor. it would also mean that they lose dodges for their defensiv move instead of having them on top.
(edited by shinta.8906)
guys its about the mechanic itself thats outdated. e.g. dd ele. the burst skills dd ele has – power spec given – are all to aim. burning speed and firegrab need to be aimed in a really slim marging way.
there is no such thing anymore in this game were u – esp in melee range – need to aim any skill. this whole game is based on not to need to aim. be it aoes who cover a large area to minimize the chance to miss or skills on a set target.
as the pve pros u seem to be. jump doric lake and test the npc’s there. u will atleast need to admit they definitly got the ele right there: squishy af and no dmg whatsoever dealing.
This thread feel like nonsense…
let a guy speak who has some expertise at this matter..
Weak spot have it’s uses i it’s state, there is no reason to change it just to satisfy some kind of tempest fetish. Core elementalist fresh air would probably lose substantial dps potential with a change to this trait.
core ele would be fine with a boon like fury – though i see an acces to weakness more usefull – as it would allow it to have some toughness. right now its all about one with air anyway outside of pve.
Harmonious conduit improve substancially your survivability while you are under the effect of the boon “protection”. I’m pretty sure you’d feel the difference in survivability if you were to change this trait like what you want. More likely, you’d die faster.
what are u talking about? faenor mentioned some sort of pulsing stability instead of a single stack with longer duration
As for SoW, the passive effect is normalized and you shouldn’t belittle the strenght of a 4 second chill effect. Afterall, players felt that chill was so strong on necromancer (even without damage trait) that they litterally beged anet to nerf the duration. For an elementalist, chilling a foe is usefull in many way.
an ele is no necromancer
(edited by shinta.8906)
its clear that immunities/blocks/evades, stealth, mobility and so on rule the pvp landscape.
but on the offensiv side of the meta it became braindead too and here is ele slacking the most.
skills that require no target:
-> we have them on dagger mainly in air mediocre dmg on cost of melee range
skills that require target but work unfaced while moving:
-> lightning strike
skills that track down the target
-> u know things like mesmer clones, mirrorblade, ranger pets and rapidfire, eviscerates, killshots, headshots, shadowshots, rocket charge, unrelenting assault….
yeah none
unblockable skills that aint controle skills:
-> phoenix which u have to aim and be in melee for to even hope to land
this meta requires unblockable dmg, bursts on low casttime and cd, skills that can track down targets even if they stealth up, skills that can be done while on the move and unfaced.
my suggestion:
-> burning speed in direction of target
-> firegrab in direction of target + unblockable
-> churning earth while moving
-> phoenix in direction of target
-> dragons tooth should follow target like hurl does. precasttime of pvp in all gamemodes
-> staff gust in direction of target + following target + unblockable + bigger
- > staff auto possible without target BUT starting of as a ringskill like aura
- > lava font instant dmg
-> revert meteor to 5 + make the meteors track down a target like air ol does.
-> warhorn skills not only in ur facing direction but if target set on target
-> lower the precasttime and stop pretending the animations look like something that is uptodate and wortwhile looking at while u wait for it to happen
and i aint even start talking numbers here required to outperform other classes sustain due to the passivs around defensive and offensivewise.
(edited by shinta.8906)
*was enjoyable to play.
it was because it was a class with fluid and engaging animations and skills compared to the others. now its left behind even in that regard – not even talking about the kittenty dmg output in every field in regards of a pvp scenario, not even talking about the kittenty mobility nor base stats.
we are stuck with clunky and outdated weaponskills on all weapons good for a meta 3 years ago. and i bet most ele mains still feed of that timeperiod.
ele 2k17 unengaging, uninspiring, underwhelming and underperforming. u could probably build to counter nearly everything out there – leaving a big whole to get countered by nearly everything else – but how does a skillcap like that must feel for a new ele player.
that moment were someone told u he fell in love with ele gameplay is so long gone cause of all the mentioned reasons. stuck in repeat are the veterans of this profession. wouldnt even call it a profession anymore more of an obsessions based on overcoming struggle.
(edited by shinta.8906)
i had the same thought over the past days, broski.
wvw is rotten to a grieve mode that doesnt even start to compare to the other modes.
but it started way before hot it was just “allright” again shortly before it.
low risk high reward vs high risk no reward
but than again, whats that “high reward” u gain there? an a bit lesser hurt but still not yet fully healed ego. therefore again and again. but most dont notice that their egos will never get any rest anyway cause of that twisted point of view.
since when will hurting other players more and more will let u feel less hurt?
in essence they kill the gamemode cause they hate it the way it is.
/edit: maybe an honoursystem (for those who say there is none ^^) and a proper class balance would change things but thats another topic pointed out so many times its wasted..
(edited by shinta.8906)
marau + fire&air sigill
i havn’t found any content about sf ele in pvp lately nor have i seen sf ele’s in the current season. i get how strong healbot ele can be but outside of teamcomps it has a lot of holes aswell esp in solo q.
after realizing that i started to focus solely on sf but came across a lot of bias and suspicion which i think is basicly a lack of information.
it’s my first season so have mercy towards me not rotating right. i still have a lot to learn in pvp but this season definitly lit up some fire in me.
1. match: shortened
2. match: speed up unimportant parts
pros:
unexpected esp since pvp doesnt differ the marks for elite or core, unblockable dmg, loads of stomp/bait options
contra: sucks vs stealth comps, mobility
future change wish: a fgs functioning like a mortar kit would be huge. insta functioning conjures would be the easiest solution to out current problems and would add so much more depth.
anyway gl to any other sf ele out there o/
(edited by shinta.8906)
insta cast for all conjures like engi kit or atunement swap.
would add more survivability with es and more depth to the playstile.
get lost of 2014 precasttimes
change back rtl
add pvp changes to wvw
my prehot s/d ele. since than everything is cold coffee
d/d is a shadow of itself cause it outshined everything before the nerf. it was way out of line.
as i mentioned u need to keep ur role in mind if u run builds. i dont aim to be the 1v1 god cause i cant care less about 1v1 meta fotm faps as long as i can sustain them. in group situation everything becomes more equal anyway.
in roaming u have constantly situations you are outmanned or a collected force will hit u with their bursts – be it condi or power based. surviving those bursts of several shows me if a build is capeable or not. furthermore i judge a build by its use. dd pulled of has a very intimidating and irritating flashy style to it. so i use mine most of to establish chaos, baiting bursts and creating a new order that suits my group and not theirs. out of a chaotic situation there will be allways oportunities to get a burst done. its like bowling where u aim for the cones on the ground. other core dd’s in my guild have another philosophy behind their builds and they work for them aswell.
for your concerns magnetic leap is great since the new retarget option even better than rtl. its kinda like a second rtl where u cant get rooted and los will allways be ur best projectile neglection anyway. resetting rtl nerfs are about time tho yea.
(edited by shinta.8906)
ds is based on lifeforce. u can not heal that up. but necs have a trait that let them heal up as long as they are in ds.
my biggest problem of core ele was for a long time to have no viable balance between offense and defense. stats looked good but realities face was different. if u chose to run more offensive to get the bursts right u missed out defense and vice versa.
a guildy brought me on the idea to think about the one unreliable stat that makes power builds mostly subpar to condibuilds and for me it is precision. u cant have enough of it to hit ur burning speed, grab and churning.
i started minimizing it and used daredevil rune + intelligence sigill and for once i feel crafty again and i’m still surprised about the synergy the arcane dodging, blink and bursts offers.
i wont add any gearstats as they are a highly personal preference in wvw depending on the role u fill out and position u are comfortable with.
hey glor we once dueled on eb shortly after hot. i was on sd back than ;o)
i dont think that a reduction of healing related skills will make dps ele more atractive. its another role u should be able to play and should be seen as seperate.
i think ur direction is right when it comes to RTL reset but posts like that r in the forum every week and anet ignores. maybe they want to advance with ele aswell so looking outside of the box might help. they completly changed skills on other weaps (sword thief #3) too before.
theres either them reducing the evade on heavy burst skills on other classes or giving dps eles the same feature. that said a dps ele can have different weaps so it should be made via utility. my favourites would be a redesign of glyphs ( which would fit with air line) or immunities on arcana use + reduction. 3 attack block is nothing.
i dislike ur suggestion tho with rock barrier as it is often a finishing move and needed added burst skill too. the tough on it is a nice to have aswell.
gl o/
we can only wait. if they keep buffing shatterstone, one day we’ll be able to oneshot everything in the game.
this
u forgot the amount of passivs everyone on other classes seems to enjoy ;o)
on reaper theres no way u can win vs a decent geared scepter ele. he can kite u forever.
dagger main got better with fire line – scepter is same old
on dd u have earth 2 as projectile defense. not much, just saying.
im playing sd with fa core (tried temp but doesnt work well enough for the crucial position u are in for ol), sw with temp +/- fa (my fav in grp situation), sf fa not so often.
have to admit that sf and df fa builds like gokil said r the most suitable in 1v1 but outmanned u have one foot in the grave.
that said, being aware of position and situation u want to commit is more key than pre hot as u need to be perfect were other classes can slack.
@reikken
have u tried sage + balthasar? dw seems pretty good for testing it atleast out. i prefer imbued also over any other gm together with wh.
im running waterline instead of arc though cause of boonrupt displeasure.
the weakness uptime looks nevertheless interesting.
btw switch out the earth signet for aftershock. ur magnetic aura uptime is around 70% than + it also blasts quick and roots (if this is next to dmg mitgation ur goal of es).
what is called item spiral in other games is a class meta spiral in gw2. they change it so u swap classes and buy new stuff for whatever fotm. theres not even one attempt or intend of balancing anything. the one time this game nearly was balanced even fire ele in line only power pu a bit out of it they forced hot on the playerbase. nearly every new skill will succeed the old one. adding and deleting skills isnt called balancing in my book cause there is no base from where u calculate on. and u dont run a succesfull company and do those things uncounscious..
(edited by shinta.8906)
didnt played since patch so i dunno about churning earth casttime viability but oh dagger was dead for me. RTL gets easily outmatched by most roaming classes with more gapclosers or gapclosers + range.
if u run for exampel sd + fa + temp u have no viable source of getting the burns on them for firegrab. so that dmg factor is dead too.. so why run dagger oh than?
for churning earth to land u prolly need blink too which u will miss 3 sec later defensivly when ur target dodged or healed up and counter bursted.
waterfield on warhorn is a joke. it doesnt do nothing.. not even cleansing conditions.
as i ran warhorn for quite some time i disagree on the clunkyness of it. ist kinda the inbetween of focus and dagger. problem is they announced temp + warhorn as ele melee spec still warhorn is the worst oh vs melee. one Problem could be that the focus range cc is kinda insta while warhorn is slow moving and straightline casting melee cc.
best thing u can do with wh is running around with 70% reflect uptime and easily stacking might and than hope to not run into boonrupt nec.
its very good vs range and offeres together with fa a better dps than dagger/focus offhand as its easier to stack might + better dmg skills. it lags mobility but ensures u to be able to kite very good vs range classes. it lags vs melee more than any other offhand though. its very hard vs thiefs but can be done with element of surprise on ur side or very defensiv play at first to Lure their cd’s
ignore first 3 min of kitten ings: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMDZlaRz3RU
can be played more tanky/supporty too without fa. even harder vs thiefs than tho as u’ll miss fa defense.
and here i thought it was either me being a failure sometimes or my ping. yeah had this too. but its kinda in the same inconsistent line as phoenix hitting several times. sometimes.
was prolly the quickest solution for this problem: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2AvsedMLyM