Guild Wars 2

Healing Power builds are bad in PvE. I’m sorry.

Ghoulina.2976:

As for story modes, don’t bother, you don’t get tokens for that. Just to exp modes, they’re really not that bad.

You shouldn’t repeatedly run story modes, but you should definitely do each of them at least once. You may not get any tokens for doing them, but you do get a lot of achievement points.

Besides, don’t just assume you’re always going to be with someone else who has story mode done, especially if it’s a less commonly ran dungeon like Sorrow’s Embrace or Caudecus’ Manor.

ArrDee.2573:

Phineas Poe.3018:

ellesee.8297:

synaptic overload won’t work with bomb kit because the bomb kit has no knockbacks

Don’t forget about Big Ol’ Bomb.

big ole bomb is a blowout, not a knockback.

Blowout skills are just push (knockback) skills that also knockdown. I don’t see why it wouldn’t proc the trait. They even used Overcharged Shot as an example, which is a launch skill, not a push skill.

I think the collective mood of this thread is a bit too assumptive and knee-jerk. Why don’t we just wait for the patch to hit and evaluate how these things work? Rather than complaining that we’re not getting enough, let’s see how everything comes together when the patch hits. Getting flustered over theorycraft adds nothing of substance.

steelheart.7386:

You can’t make decisions based on the top 3-5% of players. Thats ludicrous.

They didn’t make a decision based on the top 3-5%. They did an open poll and people answered.

Like I said already, if people want profession leaderboards, we can have them. Players are now locked to professions at the start of each match. While there’s still account-based MMR, you can simply keep track of the highest rating achieved on each profession quite easily just by following what games they win on what classes.

And just because I only have like 10% the games played on warrior that I do on engineer, it doesn’t change the fact that I’ll have an easier time fighting necromancers with my warrior than I would on engineer.

wolfyrik.2017:

Not to be a jerk, but if they did a great job, where’s your hammer and gyros? Is it also a great job if 2 of the minor traits are only of any use in one or two game modes? Also where are all the skills to take advantage of Impact Savant? It’s just as worthless in this build as it is in every other. According to your build you’re making use of only one minor trait, the others do almost nothing. Is that an “amazing job”?

Because you asked where my hammer is, I guess it’s worth mentioning that the hammer has been pivotal in crushing all open world Heart of Thorns content with my guild, including our Chak Gerent kills. You’re correct to point out that I didn’t use it here. I don’t see why that’s a problem or a flaw of the profession specialization.

CC is a huge aspect of most open world bosses to the point where it’s oftentimes better to take the lesser damage weapon in favor of more easily breaking bars. I mentioned that my raid group didn’t have a chronomancer, but we did have three revenants with staff as their second weapon set. My Slick Shoes was more insurance than necessity, but I can imagine in some raid comps (and fights) it’s much more important to have engineers quickly CC targets. To this end, combining Thunderclap and Rocket Charge is just as good as anything at breaking bars, and only is that much stronger when used in conjunction with Slick Shoes.

I do agree that Impact Savant without the hammer is pretty pointless, but it seems silly to pull one minor trait out of the tree and draw conclusions about my entire build. Every single major trait I chose has utility, and the key point of my post is to point out that you can literally swap Tools with Scrapper at no noticeable damage loss while gaining the added utility of the function gyro. That Scrapper offers situational usefulness at no real cost is precisely the point.

Obtena.7952:

I’m sure ‘being part of meta’ is not Anet’s way of measuring whether a class is ‘fine’ or not … so when you look at it that way, you are looking at it with the wrong perspective.

Being a part of the meta is a measurement of a profession’s general health. It’s OK for a class to be mediocre in a certain aspect of the game so long as it shines somewhere, but being a mediocre to bad choice in literally every aspect of this game’s content is simply untenable.

I think necromancer is the genuine best example of this, from 2012 to 2017. It’s a class that relies heavily on boon and condition manipulation; almost by design, it never was very good in PvE, but it’s almost always been a viable if not meta profession at all levels of play in PvP and WvW because of how it was designed.

The engineer, too, suffers a similar fate. Like the necromancer, our primary strength is better catered to PvP/WvW in that we’re by and large a crowd control/support profession. We certainly had our moments in PvE where we dished out top tier DPS, but the one constant with regard to the engineer, whether it was running pistol/shield, rifle, FT/TK condi, or whatever, is that we dish out a lot of hard (e.g., pull, push, launch) and soft (e.g., chill, cripple, immobilize) CC coupled with amazing group support in the Healing Turret and Elixir Gun.

It’s why when Celestial became a thing we catapulted straight to the top. And it’s why when ArenaNet “fixed” stability access with Heart of Thorns, with the staggering amount of CC we provided between gyro dazes, Slick Shoes, and Rocket Charge, we finally became a valued profession in WvW.

But since Heart of Thorns not only did our status in PvP and WvW absolutely decline, our momentary brilliance in raids, the one real time engineer was actually valued as a T1 profession in PvE, has since become outshone by easier-to-play condi builds and ANet’s negligence to design most fights like the Vale Guardian.

You can choose to ignore the meta and think it’s fine that engineer isn’t a part of it in any aspect of the game, but understand that ArenaNet balances the game around the meta. You also have to understand that I am not a casual player regarding this game or the engineer itself. I have over 7,000 hours played on this game since it launched in 2012—with over 4,000 of that being on my engineer.

I have three legendaries on my engineer: Predator, HOPE, and Juggernaut. I participated in every major LS1 event on my engineer. I completed every dungeon, fractal, and raid boss prior to my quitting in January of 2016 on my engineer. I farmed 50s on my engineer, even when we weren’t really that valued. I completed the “dungeoneer” title primarily on my engineer, even if I’d get kicked from most pug groups for playing it. I’ve got more kills in WvW on my engineer than any other class, even when all we contributed was a Magnet pull that didn’t even work half the time. And I’ve got 3,095 PvP matches played on my engineer.

My second-most played profession in PvP is warrior with 285 games.

My third-most played profession is the necromancer with 60.

This is why if you see me in PvP on anything but my engineer I’m absolutely trash with it. But I’m also trash on my engineer now for not really playing this game much over the past 2 years, instead devoting my time to ArcheAge, BDO, and WoW: Legion because ANet drags their feet regarding what they want to do with us.

My perspective is only from someone who wants to be successful playing the profession I love, which is the only profession that I truly enjoy playing enough to keep me coming back.

If the engineer didn’t exist, I never would’ve even come back after I had quit ArcheAge back in 2015.

Bwadark.2519:

Phineas Poe.3018:

You just drop fire fields on cooldown while trying to maximize your shrapnel grenades per minute.

What’s hard to understand?

The build itself is advertised with a 37 step damage rotation not including the buttons pressed for weapon swaps.

Which mean all the damage calculations and claims that this build can do are based around the rotation?

Ignoring that rotation and spamming shrapnel grenades whenever possible, surely that lowers the optimised DPS and the ‘most damaging build’ loses it’s claim?

Also in terms of ’what’s hard to understand’, again the build is advertised with a 37 step damage rotation and emphasises on cycling through all your kits and using the high damage abilities.

You are literally the only person that has ever said, fire fields, nades press 2.

That 37 step damage rotation is spreadsheet DPS. No one will be able to actually mimic that rotation in an actual fight, and Nike said that himself when he originally put out the video where that rotation was pulled from.

Almost all of your sustained damage comes from burns and bleeds. That means Blowtorch, Fire Bomb, Napalm, Incendiary Ammo, Shrapnel Grenade, and Grenade Barrage.

Using things like Poison Dart Volley and Gas Grenade are filler skills used between Shrapnel Grenade. Don’t get it twisted; your damage is all coming from your burns and bleeds, and that “optimal” rotation deals only fractionally more damage than if you just auto-attacked between the skills I listed above.

Really, too many people overthink this stuff. It’s 2x Shrapnel Grenades for every Fire Bomb, slotting Napalm and Blowtorch in as they come up. I’m tired of the stigma surrounding the condition build, because it only further incentivizes threads like these to come up, where people say only “5%” can do the build correctly.

I taught two fresh engineers the build using this exact advice, and two hours later we killed the Vale Guardian with 1:30 remaining on the clock. One of them was using exotic armor and trinkets.

Azukas.1426:

No one cheated who played in the tournament. The integrity of the game was NEVER compromised. The only thing done wrong was some idiots put a price tag on an achievement title. Thats it.

Last I checked, account sharing was against the EULA.

More importantly, the players themselves received dishonor for a reason; they’ve abused the rules and aren’t supposed to be participating in any more automated tournaments than they are ranked matches. They circumvented this ban by playing on other players’ accounts. You really don’t see the significance behind that?

SilverWF.4789:

3. Last tick of the FJ cause burn for all targets, ok. By ONE second! But FJ lasts for 2,25 sec. So will have +10% damage boost only for half-time. In the another words they buff FT damage only by 5%.

This can be perfectly rectified in solo-play by traiting 10/30/0/20/10 going for Incendiary Powder. Tried it myself last night. The loss of Energy Conversion Matrix kind of sucks, but I would have to sustain 10 different buffs at once (i.e., all of them) to match the damage increase from Burning.

I still content that this is totally unnecessary in groups. Between you and a Guardian burning for every fifth attack this is seriously not an issue.

Vagrant.7206:

The scrapper is in a good place right now

I respectfully disagree.

Scrapper is easily the most balanced “bruiser” build there is currently, not able to usually spike down targets quickly, but certainly tanky enough to outlive most 1v1s and even select 1v2s—so scrapper is probably where it should be, ideally.

The problem is that given the circumstances and roles afforded to other professions in this meta, outside of the function gyro, the scrapper brings very little to the table. We don’t offer as much raw healing as druid or elementalist do, nor do we offer as much damage as warrior, dragon hunter, or necromancer do. We don’t offer the utility that mesmer or thief have, either.

Engineer, similar to revenant, is just in this position where it feels cumbersome to play. We have to put so much effort into achieving the same results that could be better replicated on a different profession.

And while I think the function gyro is a huge tide-turner in fights, especially when paired with the Blast Gyro and Sneak Gyro to secure resses, there’s no denying that the scrapper outside of chugging Elixir X isn’t really a profession that can put the pressure on the other team as well as other classes can.

So to make matters worse, not only is the engineer currently pigeonholed into a singular build with slight variations at most tiers, but the build itself just isn’t all that desirable to others and, to be honest, isn’t very fun to play. 1v1s feel like they drag on forever, even when we’re advantaged.

I can’t believe I’m saying this but I really do miss the days when we ran grenades.

Days.3572:

The problem with GW2 and the hybrid class is the trait system. It’s just impossible to effectively trait the engineer to be a hybrid. The whole point of the trait system is to specialize your abilities. So you trait your engineer to support one of your kits effectively, and it feels like you are just wasting time using other kit’s abilities.

How do you figure?

30 points in Explosives allows you to be proficient with the Grenade Kit and Bomb Kit.

30 points in Firearms allows you to be proficient with the Flamethrower.

30 points in Inventions allows you to be proficient with turrets.

30 points in Alchemy allows you to be proficient with elixirs and the Elixir Gun.

30 points in Tools allows you to be proficient with the Tool Kit and gadgets.

You have 70 points, which is more than enough to fill out at least two (or even 3 with a 30/20/20 split) making yourself efficient at using all of your kits.

i.e., If I went 30/0/0/30/10 I’d be proficient with the Bomb/Grenade Kit, Elixir Gun, and my choice of elixir. Not complicated.

Yeah, I especially like how people go on about how Deployable Turrets means you can now toss them in unreachable areas.

Well if they’re unreachable, that means you’re stuck with the extended cooldown when you’re ready to move on.

Just one of many suspect design choices of the Engineer. Though I still love the class and would love to try out turrets in the next patch.

The Gates Assassin.9827:

Why on earth would ~10% less damage matter (200 toughness = ~10% less damage)? Anything that’s remotely difficult is going to be doing such high damage that being that close is nearly suicide unless you’re full tank. If it’s not difficult content, then again, 10% less damage doesn’t matter.

I beg to differ.

200 Toughness is a huge change in damage reduction. Just watch a glass cannon Warrior versus one wearing Knight’s insignia armor with Berserker weapons and trinkets. Toughness helps.

The Gates Assassin.9827:

We’re also ignoring the fact that if you are nuking from 1,500 range, nothing is attacking you.

This is so false. What, do you run nothing but CoF all day and think the rest of PvE is like that? Not only are there plenty of bosses in this game that have mechanics that injure both melee and ranged classes alike, but there are several in this game that require you to stand in melee range otherwise you would die.

The idea that Grenade Kit Engineers just stroll through PvE content from 1,500 range never having to worry about anything is just as flawed as saying that Bomb Kit Engineers just faceroll PvE pressing 1 over and over, never having to re-orient themselves or dodge AoE.

The Gates Assassin.9827:

If you are stacking mid fight, you are spending time and recharges on getting a few stacks of might, which is approximately 2% more damage. Thing is, during this time, you could be attacking, increasing the party damage by A LOT more. Skills like Empower do this MUCH better (12 stacks, real quick). HGH is a decent way to do this too (Thrown elixirs).

What?

The Healing Turret can be placed in half a second. Dropping it procs Altruism’s 3 stacks of Might and Fury along with detonating it in Napalm for another Area Might. And Acid Bomb does A LOT of damage when you spec for Power and Critical Damage, doing over 2.5K damage a second on top of another Area Might.

It takes me literally no time at all to do this. Like two seconds.

By the way: Empower’s stacks of Might only last 10 seconds. Area Might stacks through Blast finishers last 20. So no: Empower is not a better option. I have a level 80 Guardian and use it more for its procs with Altruistic Healing than the Might itself. It disappears too fast.

Wow, my previous post got infracted? Did someone think I was trolling when I said it’s the most OP thing about Holosmith right now?

If you don’t know, Enhanced Capacity Storage Unit with Rune of Strength allows you to easily maintain 20+ stacks of might by just dropping in and out of the Forge. It’s easily the most overpowered grandmaster trait of the three, but I’m pretty sure it’s bugged: it says it gives might “periodically,” but it gives 2 stacks at a 1-second interval. It’s just way too easy with no real downside.

Vagrant.7206:

Did you not read his post?

Of course I did. The bulk of my post was referring to when he said

> It is by far the worst elite spec mechanic

in reference to the function gyro. And considering I cleared Vale Guardian on the first day it came out as a scrapper, I can’t help but disagree. The ability to resurrect players while on the move literally salvaged my kill run. If people actually sat down and crunched the number difference between core engi versus scrapper they’d come to realize the damage difference isn’t even that much, especially when the upswing in utility is almost immeasurable. I view it simply as: the worse a situation gets, the better scrapper becomes. If I’m with an experienced fractal or raid group I don’t need it, but if I’m pugging content or with less experienced players, its defensive attributes carries parties through content.

T4 Mai Trin, for example, is a complete joke when you can res someone completely across the room with your f gyro while you hold her aggro … or when you can just drop it on someone during bomb phase and potentially get them back up.

The simple fact of the matter is that as far as PvE is concerned for a lot of players: if it isn’t first in DPS, it’s last. Which is why, in any content where DPS isn’t such a concern (e.g., WvW or PvP), or in any content where people actually die (inexperienced raid groups and T4 fractals in general) I don’t consider the scrapper “by far the worst elite spec” or even a little bit. It’s a dominant, well-designed specialization that excels at precisely what it is designed to do. It’s not ArenaNet’s fault the community-made meta is so stringently rigid and driven by a great deal of arrogance that people never make mistakes or play suboptimally.

The title of worst elite spec goes to Herald, if anybody—with Tempest or Berserker having the worst mechanic.

The definition of P2W really has changed over the years.

Everyone always plays instagib builds after balance patches.

google.3709:

completely agree, it felt like skillful play with the double pop since you we’re always controlling your positioning and your enemy’s in order to get max effect! and there was a reward for this kind of play style

I like how people complained for months that Flame Blast had to be used from 600 range. And then once the bug came about, people loved it.

They need to buff Flame Blast’s damage. Not bring back the “double pop.”

Dawdler.8521:

In general PvE, WvW and sPvP your example is irrelevant.

Engineer isn’t a meta profession in WvW or PvP, either. The concern is absolutely warranted.

EdwinLi.1284:

TeaPotty.5941:

---

I don’t think we will ever agree on how Holosmith should be judged considering our different beliefs on how to handle data (with you prefer hard math data and I prefer actual field tested data)

On that note:
As I said when I edited my last post. (Blasted forums edit updating are always so slow.)

I think people should just calm down until the 2nd Beta test when players can actually test the Elite spec for a decent amount of time.

Edwin, please understand that elite specializations are supposed to fill gaps in professions. The one thing engineer does not suffer from is lack of damage. What it suffers from is a lack of utility that makes it worth bringing to fractals, PvP, and WvW beyond serving one’s self-interest … and so they give us this? An elite specialization that literally offers zero teamplay?

I mean, even Dragonhunter traps at least shared their boons. I don’t need to playtest Holosmith to know we got shafted here.

Obtena.7952:

TLDR: If a class offers a playstyle that is primarily unique in the game, people will play it regardless of it’s meta status.

Sorry, but no. This isn’t Pillars of Eternity or Dragon Age. This isn’t some single-player game where you can RP/theorycraft to your heart’s content and think you’ll be successful just because a build is “unique.” This is an online game, and the majority of what you will do is group-based content that depends on teamwork and cooperation to succeed. And ArenaNet balances the game based on the results of what the community puts together. Underrepresented classes are buffed. Overrepresented classes are nerfed.

Raids, fractals, ranked PvP, and WvW allow you to play whatever you want, but you’ll only get so far playing something that’s not a part of the meta. I can jump into unranked and screw around with a PPHGH build, but there’s absolutely no way someone could actually replicate any level of success playing that build over the scrapper meta build in ranked PvP. If people go into a raid environment with triple mantra mesmers and condi elementalists you won’t even clear the first boss of the first wing.

“Meta” isn’t just some made-up term by elitists to shut you out of content. It’s there because the content requires it; the meta is literally a visual representation of game knowledge. Certain bosses have certain mechanics that need to be responded to. Certain classes run certain builds that have to be countered. You can’t run a boonshare build vs. a necromancer and think you’re going to come out of that 1v1 alive, and you’re not killing
Gorseval with a bunch of players clocking at ~10K DPS each.

Engineer wasn’t just magically a member of the meta overnight when Heart of Thorns launched. It was the stars aligning of ArenaNet introducing breakbars and the existence of our Slick Shoes that catapulted us to the top of the tier list. It was the fact that bosses like Vale Guardian depend on condi damage to be killed, and we were at the time the best at it.

Engineer didn’t just fall out of favor for no reason. ArenaNet failed to replicate Vale Guardian type bosses in future content, essentially nullifying the need for condi builds for most of wing 2 and 3, and they completely destroyed whatever utility Slick Shoes had. What we brought to raids simply became less valuable.

Players that ignore the meta or devalue it simply devalue their own game knowledge and prefer a state of ignorance. It’ll get you map completion and it might get you carried through a few dungeons, but if you want to do any meaningful endgame content in Guild Wars 2 like Fractal 100 challenge motes, raids, ranked PvP, or T1/T2 WvW, you have to be aware of and be a participant of the meta.

The engineer outside of a few raid bosses is currently not a part of that. The engineer has historically not been a part of it outside of PvP. And for that reason we have always lagged behind every other class in the game in terms of population, sometimes by a factor of 1:2.

Ayestes.1273:

Perhaps I’m misreading some of this and that’s my own fault, but I don’t think we are as bad off as many people seem to portray.

I don’t think we are, either.

The Grenade Kit does great damage even without Kit Refinement. Being a PBAoE skill actually kind of flies in the face of how the rest of the kit works—as a ranged option. I understand some people are very attached to their “100nades” setup but nerfing it hardly kills the Engineer’s viability in PvE or PvP with the Grenade Kit. A lot of Grenade Kit users don’t even have any points in Tools in the first place. 30/10/0/30/0 is just as common a spec, and arguably is better for spreading conditions.

The Bomb Kit, too, is just fine. It probably has the best #1 skill of all the kits in damage output and Elixir-Infused Bombs is a viable support-role alternative.

The Flamethrower probably could use a buff to be competitive with the Grenade Kit in damage, but it is a tankier option and I love playing with it. It synergizes well with the Elixir Gun and provides a great balance of damage and support. I feel like the FT/EG build is actually closest to what the developers intended the Engineer to be—as a mid-range, tanky class that provides ample damage and support. Give Flame Blast a finisher and give Napalm a circular radius we can call it a wrap.

And the Tool Kit shines so bright in sPvP/WvW it’s almost idiotic not to use it.

Where people come off saying the Engineer is busted is beyond me, but I feel the internet more commonly pulls out the negativity of people rather than their positivity. I just hope that somehow ANet is able to look past all the negativity.

Edit: Miswrote numbers!

Skitza.4069:

Well I didn’t see it anywhere in his initial updated post or anywhere in the first 4 or 5 pages of posts that seemed to get more off topic and a bit trolltastic. Maybe somewhere in that thread he talks about why it is superior to put 10 more in alchemy instead of 10 more in explosives but I didn’t see the discussion. The 100 power and 10% condition duration seem just as good if not better than the 100 vit and 10% boon duration to me. You might need to slot elixir C to have enough condition removal when 409 is gone but the trade for extra stacks of might seems fair…but that isn’t talked about in any of his alternatives in that link.

Two reasons:

The first is that more Boon Duration = More Might

1 stack of Might is 35 Power, 35 Condition Damage. Let’s say you’re running 6 Runes of Altruism with 30 Alchemy. That’s 45% Boon Duration.

Juggernaut applies 1 stack of Might every 3 seconds each that last for 15 seconds. With base Boon Duration that’s 5 total stacks. With 45% Boon Duration that’s 7 sustained stacks of Might. With 35% Boon Duration that’s 6 sustained stacks of Might. You’re actually not gaining 100 Power with 10 points in Explosives. You’re actually only gaining 65.

And Condition Duration? For what? Flamethrower Engineers have access to more than plenty Burning applications to permanently sustain it with only 10 points in Explosives. Another 10% isn’t enough to get an extra stack of Bleed from Sharpshooter either, so you gain nothing there. And 10% increased duration of Vulnerability against bosses? You will hardly notice.

The second reason, which compounds on the first one, is that Energy Conversion Matrix gives you a flat 1% boost in damage for every Boon you have. You may think that isn’t a whole lot; 1% is hardly noticeable.

But the difference between 2000 Power and 2100 Power in the output of your damage, when applied to a skill co-efficient, is usually around a 1% difference in damage. And actually: many times less.

If you’re running Infused Precision and Invigorating Speed, on top of Might and Fury, that’s a flat 4% increase in your damage which will significantly outperform an extra 100 Power in your build.

The whole advantage to running 20 Explosives is actually not about the Power and Condition Duration at all: It’s Enhance Performance giving you 3 extra stacks of Might. But I don’t know about you, but when I’m feeling serious about my Might stacking I can get to 19 stacks of Might all by myself.

99% of the time, the other 6 stacks of Might are granted by someone else. We are, after all, not the only class that can stack Might.

As for condi removal, I recommend Cleaning Formula 409 to start but I haven’t used it in weeks. Not since I swapped to the Healing Turret in dungeons.

Okay. So you’re FT spec.

You have 30 points in Firearms for Juggernaut. You have 20 points in Alchemy for Deadly Mixture. You have 10 points in Tools for Kit Refinement. That leaves 10 points to either get Cleansing Formula + Energy Conversion Matrix (1%+ damage per boon) or Incendiary Powder for perma burn.

Now, my question for you is: do you like having Kit Refinement so much that it’s better than having Incendiary Powder and ECM + Cleansing Formula?

Blows my mind that Chaith just won the WTS on Saturday and people are still saying engineer is struggling in PvP. We’re weaker than we were pre-patch, but we still slot well into most group compositions.

We just aren’t the solo queue carry we used to be.

If someone’s intention is to simply AFK their matches to the end of the Byzantium box, the rate in which players gain pips through losses is so slow they’d be better off just running fractals or AB multi-mapping.

I’ve updated my Guru thread already if you wanted to check out there.

It’s in my signature. I’ll revise this, as well.

Edit: Revised in full.

I prefer Pistol/Pistol or Pistol/Shield solely because I get two sigils to modify my Flamethrower versus having only one with the Rifle.

Arobain.8274:

just because kits are out for right now doesn’t mean engineer is useless, or " blocked full potential " you people act like engineer kits are the best way to play engineer without even thinking of trying, or looking at other builds, sigh

Having a subset of utility skills that are underperforming due to unintended bugs is the very definition of lost potential.

Kaleban.9834:

Fact is, there are better and more elegant ways to go about balance, it simply remains to be seen if ANet learns from its past mistakes.

Fact is, it simply remains to be seen what “boon hate” really even is.

Anyone else finding a lot of success comboing Scrapper with the Flamethrower and Elixir Gun? I can’t say it’s a potential meta spec or anything, but I’ve had remarkably decent success with this build—a lot more than I honestly expected. It at least feels a bit more fleshed out and well-rounded than the FT/TK condi build floating around, and with some adjustments it may be a very good option down the road.

Some build highlights:

• 16 stacks of might pre-HGH procs
• Permanant vigor in combat with HAE+IS
• Good to great sustain from Adaptive Armor and Recovery Matrix
• Moderate damage from the Flame Jet buff coupled with Incendiary Ammo and hammer skills
• Decent decap/CC potential with Air Blast + Thunderclap

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?vdAQFASlUUhatY7Ww6KQ7FL3FF9qH7zO4CGhBgYB9D5AA-TJBFwACuAAt2fAaZAAPAAA

Try it out and let me know what you think! (Third utility is a flex slot. I have Elixir B there, but I’ve slotted in Rocket Boots and Slick Shoes as well.)

twhite.9310:

People would even laugh and say engis don’t do dmg. Well I know what my class can do and it’s a little frustrating when people won’t even consider it because it’s not part of the “elitist” groups. An Engi is superior in almost every aspect it seems. Their dps is pretty freaking great.. considering my bombs hit 7-8k+ and the auto attack is really fast. They can heal, they can stealth, they can pull, they can stack might, I just don’t get why people don’t want us in teams. Sorry I had to vent.. I’m tired of getting kicked as soon as I join a pug(I Wouldn’t join a pug btw if I had a guild that did fractals/dungeons with an engi)

It’s certainly not fair to claim that engineers do no damage, but have a little humility. Engineers dish out good DPS, but they’re nothing compared to an elementalist with the FGS. Engineers may stack might decently enough, but they don’t do it as well as an elementalist does either. And with Persisting Flames, you get over 1 minute of fury as a byproduct.

Engineers can stealth, but if you think you’re as good as a thief at this, you are sorely mistaken. There is just nothing in this game that competes with Shadow Refuge. A thief’s ability to stealth groups through half a dungeon are why they are commonly taken—and it often requires the use of Smoke Screen and Shadow Refuge to do it. Engineers are pretty good for short distance skips, but for stuff like TA you want a thief, not an engineer.

I love my engineer, and it was the first class I reached 80 with, but I don’t really much use it in dungeons anymore. Fractals are a different story, of course, but for speed-clearing dungeons, you’re better off with other classes.

Ezeriel.9574:

Engis now just cycle through all their highest dps skills, and start over. Rotations, rotations, rotations, with no identity.

This is how engineer has always been played. It has always been about rotating between your hardest hitting skills, which is why elixir and gadget builds have always underperformed compared to kit-centric builds.

I will say though that HGH and Static Discharge are a lot stronger than they were pre-patch, even if they don’t compare to bombs and grenades in sustained damage pressure. SD has always been about burst, and Kinetic Battery empowers that even further.

And there has never, ever been a time where sitting in the Flamethrower or Elixir Gun was an optimal play style in competitive modes. Even when it originally had stability the first go-around at the game’s launch, the movement speed reduction made it a situational swap-to kit for stomps or whatever.

I got her to less than 5% and died.

I notice that the second phase AoE rotates around the room (after she’s vulnerable).

Since it’s ranged, Grenade Kit is best. I’ve been using Tool Kit to Magnet the adds to save time. Rocket Boots as third utility.

I actually think questioning the validity of the Flamethrower in sPvP is a fair debate.

As an AoE kit, I do think it’s much better designed for group-play in PvE and badge-tagging in WvW in zergs. I use it in sPvP from time to time anyway, but there are better options.

If you want my honest opinion, I’m done with Kit Refinement and I’m tired of feeling dependent by it. ArenaNet kind of did me a favor in this patch, because I hated the loss of Energy Conversion Matrix (1%+ damage for every boon applied) when Incendiary Powder became a necessity.

Some people dislike having decisions made for them, but I have since rolled with a 10/30/0/30/0 setup and really don’t notice that large a drop in my survivability … though I do pair it with the Med Kit and Elixir Gun, which might affect others’ experiences compared to mine.

waka.9826:

Phineas Poe.3018:

houndmd.4360:

Problem is, what reliable way of removing conditions bar Cleansing Formula do we have now?

Cleansing Burst
Elixir C
Toss Elixir C
Toss Elixir R
Drop Antidote
Super Elixir

^

healing active turret cleanses all condis but no one seems to use it and just blow it up.

I’m not a fan of the Healing Turret personally. I’m a Med Kit guy and have been for a while for on-heal proc effects like Altruism. But Cleansing Burst is very powerful, and anyone who runs Med Kit + Elixir Gun have two condition removal skills with Drop Antidote and Super Elixir on very short cooldowns when traited (20 and 16 seconds respectively).

Elixir C + R is more my speed for sPvP though.

We’ll be fine. The sky is not falling.

Hello all. I’ve updated this to the latest patch.

Enjoy.

Ario.8964:

Celestial was only dominant after they did the massive merge the kitten out of traits change and gave everyone might stacking for free.

Celestial was dominant long before the pre-HoT trait overhaul.

Rifle skills are so strong because we don’t have access to a secondary weapon set. It should be left alone, ideally.

LUST.7241:

Running Marauder in this meta is such a risky move…especially when the biggest benefit is an elite that is based on RNG, timing, and positioning. Couple that with the limited time you have and it’s cooldown?

Risky or not, I’m just making the argument that Elixir X with a damage amulet absolutely trashes people. It doesn’t need a buff.

coglin.1867:

And who is this “we” you refer to builds and stun breakers? If you want to be taken seriously, do not dishonestly claim to speak for anyone other then yourself.

To be fair, most engineers do only run one stunbreaker: either the Elixir Gun, Elixir S, or Slick Shoes. And he did say “we usually,” not “all of us.”

I think I share a popular opinion with many when I say that the Holosmith feels very strong in PvP. It’s enjoyable to play, and it offers a very welcomed change of pace from the Scrapper. I think both Robert Gee and Irenio Calmon-Huang have a lot to be proud of with this specialization, as it seems to be one of the more popular ones according to the Reddit poll conducted over the weekend, and it is bringing a lot of non-engi players to the profession. I think the Holosmith will also be a genuine upgrade over core engineer in the PvE side of things, giving us a legitimate, engaging play style that’s quite a bit more active than spamming bombs in the core power engi build while being less frantic than the 4-kit core condi build. There’s a lot both PvE and PvP players have to be happy about with the specialization, but I think it’s important to address the elephant in the room here: five years into Guild Wars 2, the engineer is still an outsider to the WvW meta.

We had a brief stint in the meta when Heart of Thorns first launched, with Slick Shoes seeing very strong synergy with the Scrapper. And with Bulwark Gyro’s toolbelt skill, Defense Field, the Scrapper early on was one of the major contributors to finally disrupting the “pirate ship” meta. But now that Wall of Reflection has a base 30-second cooldown, which can be lowered to a 24-second cooldown with traits, alongside a major shift away from the “pirate ship” to the condi meta we have today, a lot of of our original appeal is gone. The Scrapper has no real defined role in WvW in 2017 outside of Sneak Gyro’s reveal, which admittedly has little utility outside of GvGs.

As such, we’re now entering this game’s five year anniversary and its second expansion release with another elite specialization that does nothing to address these issues. The engineer has struggled to maintain relevancy over the years as it pertains to WvW, and the Holosmith does nothing to fix this. It is yet another specialization that will be very effective in small-group/solo roaming while presenting little upside in a structured raid environment. But rather than sit here and complain about it, I’d like to offer some suggestions to “fix” the Holosmith without disrupting its balancing (i.e., no changes would make the specialization overpowered) while at the same time providing a more cohesive gameplay experience that may potentially translate to core engi skills/trait lines.

Please let me know what you think. Thanks.

Kalan.9705:

I entirely agree, the dev effort into classes has been very, mixed and appears to favour classes they play. It’s no only an engineer problem. This means
a) the devs don’t have enough devs to play all the classes properly on the balance team
b) they are getting very bad information about the classes they don’t play and hence making very bad decisions. (no-one who actually played an engineer could have okayed the kit refinement mess from last patch for e.g., no-one who played engineer would take the stability from juggernaut, without replacing it with access to stability somewhere else and on and on)
c) they need both a test server, and a 1 dedicated dev per class minimum, ontop of the class balance generalists, as a proper workflow for the balance team.

Or,

d) Balancing the Engineer is a significantly more difficult effort than balancing the Warrior or Guardian.

I also think you’re really exaggerating how bad we have it. The only real underperforming build we have at the moment is turrets. Gadgets could also probably use a look, but aside from maybe buffing the Flame Jet’s damage another 10-15%, our kits are pretty much where they should be.

And why would anyone think that our mainhand weapons are intentionally designed to be weak? The Pistol is one of the few weapons (if not the only) in the game that can spread Bleed, Poison, Confusion, and Burn.

And the Rifle … really? Net Shot is one of the best immobilization skills in the game. And Jump Shot’s leap with Rifled Barrels is so ridiculous that breaks most Jumping Puzzles. If you have trouble staying outside melee range with the Rifle, that is entirely between you and your keyboard.

Chaith.8256:

Pablo.3259:

Holosmith wont be meta anywhere.

We have healing, some kits some gadgets, turrets etc just make this viable instead of
.
..
…whatever I’m tired.
.

Hey? you guys checked that theif new spec ? Looks awesome no ?

Just amazed by how people so confidently know what will be useful and where,

you have no actual idea, best to wait and see

Chaith, you haven’t been playing Guild Wars 2 for a while, but I’m sure you remember very well the fact that engineer has pretty much never had a role in World vs. World outside of gimmick mechanics like magnet pulling commanders or having momentary usefulness with the Bulwark Gyro reflect bubble (which was very quickly rendered obsolete by shield-wielding guardians). As such, to get such a selfish, distilled elite specialization that serves no utilitarian purpose … you have to admit that’s a bit of a let down, no? If I’m a WvW-only engi-main (if any such people even exist in 2017 still), I’m supposedly spending $30 to unlock another roaming build that in no way moves the needle for the profession in any reasonable way.

Further to that point … Holosmith will likely have a plenty healthy presence in PvE, because PvE is only obsessed with damage output—which is really all Holosmith does. If Holosmith makes up a contributing factor in reaching the highest possible raid damage output, then that’s all that matters there. And because core engi already has a role as a DPSer, that’s very likely to be the case. But beyond that, again, it really doesn’t move the needle; if I’m a PvE-only engi-main, I’m ostensibly spending $30 to really only change up my damage rotation. Holosmith contributes nothing to the profession beyond that, and does nothing to reimagine or revitalize the profession in fractals, raids, or dungeon content beyond a single-minded DPS role.

I mean, sometimes you just gotta call a spade a spade. They took a jack-of-all-trades and neutered it.

You should’ve been here the first couple weeks after the patch.

It wasn’t positive at all. The sky was falling.

Now that the dust has settled I think a lot realize now that we’re just fine. Celestial isn’t really an option for us anymore in PvP, but Marauder and Soldier are both very good at what they do and we got a substantial buff in PvE getting access to the full Tools tree.

We have little to be upset over since Chaith just won the WTS with his engineer and Brazil posted the updated dungeon build with engineers outdamaging thieves and elementalists.

I’m not sure where we stand in WvW, but I haven’t taken WvW seriously in nearly a couple years now.

I think we’re the only class next to Warrior that has one interrupt and then must lay there and take the stomp. If our #3 skill was a little shorter, so that we had a second interrupt, I’d be happier with what we have.

Most classes, after all, have a second interrupt up their sleeve if they pull off the first one, even in time of using their #2 skill immediately.

suffish.4150:

Spoichiche.1290:

“Tell me what’s the point of playing?

1. It clearly isn’t fun".

The post should just end here. There’s no point in playing if you don’t enjoy it.
I don’t believe anyone with half a brain would play a game that they don’t find fun, or enjoy in some way.

If you truly think this then you are not a competitive or really an ambitious player. I have played over 650 games this season already and, trying to be as accurate as possible, I would say 70% of those I really, REALLY did not want to play. I have spent over half this season absolutely hating pvp and feeling like quitting the game after many of my losses. But I don’t just stop playing because I don’t enjoy it. I don’t play this game for fun. If I did I would not even have half of the 5.2k hours I have invested in this game. No matter if it is pve or pvp, I play to achieve a target and I will not stop playing, however much I hate what I am doing, until I have done what I want to. To be honest, I WISH I could think in the way you do, it would make me a lot happier, but me and many other simply can’t.

And it is not just me who thinks like this, I know that many people would keep playing when they hate this game like I sometimes do just so they can achieve what they want. When you see a thread like this with someone saying how much they hate the game yet they continue to play, it means that they are a person who thinks like me and will keep going even if they don’t like what they are doing. Pvp, especially this season, does encourage people to think in this way more than ever.

That, or they have literally nothing else to do with their life. Or both.

This sounds like incredibly destructive behavior and was honestly very depressing to read.

Video games are a hobby. Unless you’re a YouTube content creator or a Twitch streamer, you’re probably not even making any money playing this game. It’s a good and healthy thing to always strive for improvement when it comes to your hobbies, whether that’s gaming or otherwise. My wife is a ferocious knitter and always challenges herself by taking on more ambitious projects; I too play video games with much the same energy, and am always striving to improve as a player.

But at the core of that ambition is the pursuit of play, not work.

I hope your life turns around at some point and you eventually see the error in this approach.

DesertRose.2031:

ellesee.8297:

it’s pve. all these numbers are unnecessary unless it’s your goal to clear SE P1 in record time. play what you like. it’ll work i promise you.

Sure, in PvE you can pretty much run everything you want and somehow get by.
Just don’t be surprised if you get kicked out of your dungeon group if you say you run Flamethrower.

Please stop spreading these lies. I’ve been running the FT since I hit level 80 over 12 months ago. I’ve must’ve run each dungeon dozens of times by now, both inside and outside of my guild.

No one has ever kicked me from a group because of what kit I wield. I’ve been asked to play on my Warrior over my Engineer at times, but that is the extent of it. And of the times I said no, I wasn’t kicked for it.

style.6173:

@OP:

Matchmaking was broken before leagues started. What exactly do you think will happen if people wait 15 or 30 or even 60 days? Matchmaking will still be broken.

ANET also really messed up by thinking that launching elite specs and new amulets was a “balance patch”. It was a new feature release and then they forgot to balance it after the fact. I sometimes really wonder if those who lead ANET even think ahead of time.

I don’t disagree with any of this. As an engineer main I find scrapper completely broken. There is no reason to ever use a rifle or p/p build ever again. You just mindlessly Rocket Charge off cooldown into an Elixir Shell or Healing Turret and can outsustain 1v2 match-ups unless it’s double rev or something.

The only thing the build is missing is a knockback. I miss P/P HGH, and I miss Soldier Rifle. They weren’t harder to play or anything, but at least we had variety.

Ustaf.2953:

Can you give a bit of a guide on rotations etc? Would like to try out this build

Certainly.

You want to spend most of your time in the Flamethrower for Juggernaut. The hammer AA chain is stronger than Flame Jet, but you’ll obviously maintain your might stacks better the more you’re wielding the FT.

The biggest damaging abilities are really from the hammer though, so you still want to swap to it, but not so long that you lose out on too many of your might stacks. I find as far as the hammer is concerned, Thunderclap -> Rocket Charge is the obvious winner. I also tend to use Shock Shield more offensively than defensively, as it ticks upwards to 1K damage a second.

I also have since swapped out the Mortar Kit for Supply Crate. The 2.5 second stun from Supply Crate lends well to the hammer play style, and the Net Turret helps root players for Flame Blast, Electro-Whirl, and Shock Shield. I also felt that just the way the Flamethrower worked with Juggernaut lended better to running as few kits as possible.

Overall, the sustain of this build is really its best attribute, as you have the option to pop Healing Mist off cooldown for condi cleanse and regen with the perma stability from Juggernaut, and Flame Blast’s short cooldown lends well to blasting Regenerating Mist off cooldown. Med Pack Drop and Super Elixir should also be obviously used off cooldown during fights.

If I could summarize it best:

• Hammer off cooldown
• Elixir Gun for sustain (honorable mention to Tranq Dart mitigation)
• Flamethrower all other times for stability and might stacks

Dirame.8521:

I would run rifle with this set-up. I’m just not digging the functionality of the Hammer right now.

I can see reasons to use it, but the hammer does significantly more damage than the rifle when used properly.