Simple reasoning: currently toughness is more beneficial to heavy then medium and finally paper wearers.
Might need more paper wearers in raids.
So they will make heavy armor get even more of a bonus so that squishies are even more squishy and toughness becomes even more pointless in most pvp where burst damage is now so high it makes no difference having 1k toughness or over 2k on a medium armor toon.
It’s the opposite the more HP and less armor you have more beneficial toughness is (against direct damage).
Yeah I covered some of these in the OP, especially the hit and run tactic is difficult when people deliberately single you out, the running is where you run into problems since they have ranged. Even when using the Shiro evade or pillarhumping where possible people quite easily dot you up before and after – I find that when you try to dip in and out you lose most of your hp inbetween so might as well be glued to a target and deliver what little damage you can before you go down.
And yeah Glint heal is fine for 2 secs, condis still there when it ends and when you get burning ticking for 3-4k and bleeding for 2k+ and then torment and poison on top of that in extreme cases you’ll live for maybe 2-3 secs after it ends…
Like I said while running in teamfights is something you should do if you have no choice, getting close to your support to make their work easier is also an option.
That is assuming you have a druid/tempest in your team (a tempest is preferred ) if you don’t you shouldn’t be playing rev.
Hmmz… Kinda sad that it’s gotten to the point where it’s just pointless to play it without certain classes to back you up. And I was strictly talking about lower division solo q stuff really, obviously this will all work alot differently in a proper team. Had a few games again today where it ended up being vs mostly condi on the opposite side, pretty frustrating how absolutely useless it makes you feel.
It’s unavoidable, we are being balanced around the meta comp which includes that kind of support. Rev lacks meaningful self-healing and condi cleanse and a tempest provides exactly that.
All that damage nerf. What then when power revenant is unplayable do you want to destroy condi revenant next. Anet need to split skills and traits to pve/pvp or else no one is playing revenant in any game mode.
I’m quite sure condi rev has already been destroyed and is rather niche now.
And great success on getting closer to make a skill with great depth shallow.
Nero is correct it’s because the build is unoptimized. Orr requires no specific build to be able to solo it. But there is nothing wrong with playing a unoptimized build for open-world pve.
You shouldn’t be using the skills on cooldown… Simply reducing the energy cost is the wrong way to go as it would make energy a non-mechanic. What they should do is increase the effects to be worth the energy cost.
First DS does not work like teq but like SW só if you are on a low pop server you might want to use the lfg.
Second bladed armor is obtained in Verdand Brink.
If you are constantly getting into low pop maps you might want to report it.
Thx for offering opinions. I’m still very interested in building such a “non-mainstream” healer. So….any more ideas about the status choice? Is concentration necessary for sustaining boons?(since Gallrock is running full cleric)
Thx again~
No you really don’t need concentration. All boon duration that you’d want comes from food , runes and the herald trait line.
Magis is taken mostly on druid so that your toughness doesn’t mess up aggro on bosses where it matters. In our case you’ll mess up aggro anyways because of hardened foundations, so you might as well tank too (clerics also gives a 20% higher damage).
On invocation vs devastation devastation increases your personal DPS more and it also gives you assassins presence. Invocation can be taken if you already have assassins presence and haven’t capped might (shared empowerment, sigil of strength and rolling mists).
Zealots is really “meh” your damage won’t really be high and your healing will take a massive hit, it’s also expensive.
Question, wouldn’t it be a good idea to take shrouded mists from invocation for more healing towards allies?
The condition for it is bad so in most cases no. To maximize healing output and boon upkeep you’ll want to swap on cooldown so you’ll rarely be above 50% energy. That is unless you don’t need to heal in the first place.
Something I’ve been wondering, you might know. To get the shrouded mists outgoing healing benefit do you need to be above 50 energy after you spend the energy on the skill that heals or is before you use it enough?
Shrouding Mists doesn’t work at all at 50 energy, it only works from 49 and 51. Outgoing healing is applied at start of the cast, before you spend energy, so you have to be >51 energy at the time of cast for bonus outgoing healing to apply.
So the +25% per target is that somewhat insanely strong if over the 50% energy threshold?
No, it’s really not. If you are running all the other outgoing healing traits it will only be a 10%~13% increase to your overall healing while active.
Outgoing healing unlike damage stacks additively.
And unlike everyone else we are full of outgoing healing traits.
The per target has no meaning it’s just a normal 25% outgoing healing bonus while above 50%.
Heals are crappy without a lot of healing power, take clerics and you are good to go.
For traits https://gw2efficiency.com/c/Senbu%20Ren you can take my build for reference it’s focused on preserving damage while pushing out as much healing as possible.
You can take shared empowerment with sigil of battle for a little bit more damage.
Ventari’s self sustain barely scales with HPower but the outgoing healing scales reaaally well unfortunately even at its best it’s not on druid level.
It is rather funny that the bug fixes lately have been effective nerfs. Wish they’d bug fixed the ones that would actually benefit us. Let’s think positive: they wanted to bug fix nerf before the bug fix buff so that it wouldn’t OP’er the Rev…….
Ventari might see some use now. The entire legend being instant-cast means the lack of stunbreak isn’t as big a deal anymore. More importantly, you can react much more quickly to an ally in trouble than you could before.
That cooldown on Ventaris will and the lack of a HPS/sustain buff make Ventari have the exact same place it had before…
On the bright side it is more responsive (except for the cooldown) and if properly buffed good.
You only need to press it once and it’ll automatically repeat (unless you are a nade engineer) if you want to interrupt it get out of range, press ESC or stow your weapon.
I had some free time and did these plots it’s a level 80 damage comparison of conditions
I hope it might help if you have a doubt in wich traits/skills to use.
Jalis nerf hype!
How about we reduce surge damage by 35% more and reduce it cd to 15 already?
Considering how hard they nerfed the CC…
I mean.. why they just wont take a look at my document and start balancing for real? They dont know their game, they dont know hat to do with rev either and yet they dont care about any form of a feedback at all which recent changes proves that.
At least they listened to the instacast on tablet movement.
And? They increased cd by 100% as well so what the “buffs” changed about ventari in the end? Nothing.
Didn’t say they made Ventari any better since the cooldown increase beyond 3 sec was a terrible choice.
Staff 5 was over the top. Honestly it shouldn’t even be an evade. Staff 2 can daze (if used right), Staff 4 condi clears+heals, Staff 3 blocks, and Staff 5 is a cc, evades, and deals damage… Staff is fine
Do you even know that Revenant is extremely limited by energy and even cds? Like seriously try again dude…
That’s why it’s important for Revenants to manage their energy properly. CDs on skills are pretty much nonexistent. Shortest CDs of any profession next to Thief
Indeed Inspiring Reinforcements. Perfect CD. So perfect that I forgot the name. And had to google it
1.Conditions and healing skills do not scale equally by the amount of Condition damage or Healing power (respectivly) therefore showing a percentage would be meaningless unless you show it for every possible healing skill or condition.
2. Not all profession stats can be converted to a meaningful percentage aswell.
I wish you luck but any suggestions are probably useless.
I say this as someone who has helped keep suggestion threads alive in the guardian forums for years after they started, threads that had hundreds if not thousands of replies saying they were good ideas, the same threads that never saw so much as an admission or hint on Anet’s end that the guardian skills/traits/weapon skills were not performing at a place that was good.
They did listen during the beta and ranger shout changes were based on forum feedback.
Just curious. I know everyone has their own play style, but overall is shield in the OH better than Sword for a power build in WvW while doing more Roaming?
No. Specially for WvW roaming a mobile block is far more important than some minor healing.
The overwhelming consensus last season was that revenant was overpowered. I thought nerfing overpowered classes lead to balance (you know, that thing all players want and devs actively work towards)?
People don’t see the whole picture. They see what they want to see, exclude the rest, ignore parts of the reality that prevent them from coming to logical conclusions. It’s easier to ragepost than it is to think how to adapt, though one is more effective than the other.
Or maybe we don’t mind the nerfs, but hate the fact that all the weak aspects were completely untouched?
I agree that people don’t see the whole picture. That much is clear from your post and many others.
Ventari needs serious fixing but if it’s tweaked to be viable in PvP it may be “OP” in PvE. Yet another solution that can be solved by separate balancing. To be PvP ready it needs faster charge times and less energy consumption. By the time it pumps out a heal or even cleanse the players you wanted to heal or cleanse would likely have ran out of the tablet’s range.
I’m fairly sure it will hardly be OP in pve before being OP in conquest. In PvE it’s all about damage. Tempest and Druid bring in more than enough healing. What ventari can’t do is getting even close to Druids offensive support while maintains the minimum amount of healing.
I think that condi Rev is as lethal in PvP as was before the patch; they barely had a dent in the build (aside from removing the def rune) but everyone is now a 40% more squishier than yesterday, so killing other classes is now even more easier.
Yes, sword and hammer got nerfs, but the general nerfs in sustain for all classes are larger, and we still have our full condi pressure intact.
They killed their stability and necros eat resistance how do you think condi revs can survive?
I don’t think that’s a bad thing since on the opposite side of the spectrum with the right setup, a power specced toon can down an opponent in short order.
The damage is only 66% of Surge of the Mists but the combo actually costs more, increase each step of it by 15-33% to compensate or lower the energy cost. Surge also has more cc so don’t say the daze compensates.
Bring a friend and stunlock the necro… it isnt so hard right?
Spontaneous Destruction spam did the same thing no? along with 2 other traits on low cooldwon. Rev also revomes boons so why not try having your boons removed too.
How do you stunlock 3-4 Necros? Because that will be the new meta.
Necros don’t stack very well with themselves, taking 3-4 necros would be suicide.
I still think people are overrating the corrupt on the third AA way too much.
My major problem is that it is a corrupt and revenants are weak to condis too. And not only that revenants are getting nerfed and both counters (to the condi revenant) buffed.
As a side note I didn’t play condi rev for anything but a few duels, it’s not really fun, but getting the entire profession removed isn’t really OK.
Outgoing Healing only applies to others. “To allies” generally includes yourself (can’t remember any exception), there are no self heal increasing traits for Revenants and overall self heal is terrible.
It being terrible was necessary for PvP balance since we had too many active (and anti-power) defenses, now that they removed clerics it’s arguable whether this is true.
Selfless amplification gives you a outgoing healing bonus of HealingPower/100 rounded downwards.
Outgoing healing stacks additively so you just sum up the bonuses with 100% and multiply that by the healing to get healing on others.
OutgoingHeal=BaseHeal*(OHB1+OHB2+OHB3…+100)/100
Were OHB is outgoing healing bonus.
Staff 5 was over the top. Honestly it shouldn’t even be an evade. Staff 2 can daze (if used right), Staff 4 condi clears+heals, Staff 3 blocks, and Staff 5 is a cc, evades, and deals damage… Staff is fine
Do you even know that Revenant is extremely limited by energy and even cds? Like seriously try again dude…
That’s why it’s important for Revenants to manage their energy properly. CDs on skills are pretty much nonexistent. Shortest CDs of any profession next to Thief
Warrior shield skills are shorter, better and with no energy cost. Tf you talking about?
Shield skills? You’re using shield skills as a comparison to a whole professions skillset CDs? Revenant shield #5 provides a block for 3 seconds and heals you, and #4 gives protection and healing…
I would replaced Guardian shield skills with Revenants in a heartbeat… I know Warriors would probably do the same
The healing is impressive indeed. So impressive that anyone without healing power would rather use sword
I mostly do sPvP as I can’t be bothered with collecting gear from raids or fractals to be competent at WvW. I did a coulpe of matches with Scepter+Shield/Sword+Focus and it was pretty good, won 3 out 6 matches.
Yeah I forgot to mention PvP, DH was subpar compared to other classes last season, now there’s a good chance that it will be meta, with the removal of Clerics amulet, it’s gonna be who has the highest burst and DH are good at that in team fights.
It won’t. Guardian bunkers had no damage and no sustain over time, so wasn’t viable at all and now without the cleric amulet his only strenght (team support) is even worse (not like they could compete against othe healers, anyway). So meditation DH is still the best Guardian build, despite being trash tier. Now after 13 months outside the pro pvp meta the Guardian faces another three months of uselessness in high level play, so they can reach the 16th month -and being very close of the uselessnes streak of the Warrior at the beguining of the game.
Rev has weakness, but at least they still can grant one per team in each pro league team.
Don’t be too sure about it. In pro leagues revs needed Auramancers which were hard nerfed.
It’s because this game has a strong meta of “As much DPS as possible, as little utility as needed.”.
Basically: “Kill before you get killed.”
This has 2 major reasons:
The “No forced holy trinity” in Guild Wars 2.
Everyone can heal themselves well, support others and everyone can tank a bit if need be. Problem being the following…
The Dodge Mechanic.
“Why face-tank if you can simply evade?”
A lot of players, especially those used to the game and its mechanics, focus entirely on DPS because Armour and Health simply aren’t much needed in most situations.
Even in Raids where the Trinity has seen some sort of return to a few groups.
The Druid as a dedicated healer (yet also supporter and damager!)
A Tank, which mostly damages but has a tiny bit more of toughness to maintain the aggro.
Everyone else is DPS.
Guild Wars 2 has a lot of combat customization, you can truly play as you want to.
But the general consensus happens to be that it’s most efficient to be offensive. (Not talking about Offensive Language although sPvP may convince you otherwise )
Anyhow, this is why Varezenem knew you’re a new player.
Then again I do not discourage your builds at all.
I love them and I wish more people would think outside the box known as the “Meta”.
To you, and everyone else, I say: Play as you want to. Guild Wars 2 offers you the chance to do so, be sure to take it.
A party that is 100% “zerk” and completes a dungeon in 10 minutes or burns a boss to ashes in 30 seconds is efficient, but to me the fun is hard to spot in a composition like this.
If you happen to be a EU player, be sure to PM me any time if you want someone non-meta to play with!
I tried this build out in PVP and I managed to go on a rampage and get 10 kills on my second game, so yeh this build is good for PVP. I am able to solo Maguuma Jungle so far with the build as well. I tried the Revenant in the Maguuma Jungle during beta and I kept dying, but with my current build I havnt died once on the main storyline… I think I may try my build with Shamanic gear as healing would benefit this build more than toughness…
Kills are irrelevant in PvP if you want to learn2pvp qqmore is a great source to begin.
The overwhelming consensus last season was that revenant was overpowered. I thought nerfing overpowered classes lead to balance (you know, that thing all players want and devs actively work towards)?
People don’t see the whole picture. They see what they want to see, exclude the rest, ignore parts of the reality that prevent them from coming to logical conclusions. It’s easier to ragepost than it is to think how to adapt, though one is more effective than the other.
Or maybe we don’t mind the nerfs, but hate the fact that all the weak aspects were completely untouched?
I agree that people don’t see the whole picture. That much is clear from your post and many others.
Ventari needs serious fixing but if it’s tweaked to be viable in PvP it may be “OP” in PvE. Yet another solution that can be solved by separate balancing. To be PvP ready it needs faster charge times and less energy consumption. By the time it pumps out a heal or even cleanse the players you wanted to heal or cleanse would likely have ran out of the tablet’s range.
I’m fairly sure it will hardly be OP in pve before being OP in conquest. In PvE it’s all about damage. Tempest and Druid bring in more than enough healing. What ventari can’t do is getting even close to Druids offensive support while maintains the minimum amount of healing.
Normally it’s the case that something is OP in PvP first (players have fewer immunities and much less HP than bosses and even elite and vet trash mobs) but the very nature of PvP battles and the unique mechanics behind the tablet say such a buff would make it so. In PvP on a small point consistently upkeeping cleanse and healing on a point will be a bit of a challenge and still need to use weapon skills but skills like scorpion wire and point blank shot would get their teammates out of the tablet’s range (the shield skill would put healing on hold making them vulnerable to the melee inside) so it’d still have good counterplay whereas in PvE people can stack and it’d be easier to alternate between tablet skills and weapon skills due to the pace. I don’t know how raids work though but heard conditions play a big part there.
Ventari needs lots of work to be viable in PvP but I think they’re afraid of overpowering the legend in PvE. I only one two matches (all unranked) out of six as Ventari and I spent lots of time in Shiro in those matches too. Then again I went mid in Legacy for one of the losses but the tablet’s precasts and cooldowns make it unwieldy.
Currently in both condition cleanse and maximum healing potential druids and tempests can do better. The reason it would be in PvP first is because PvP isn’t really as much about killing fast but about holding a point (this could be observed in the last meta). Under these conditions a healer will always be OP first in conquest.
BTW in the current raid condi cleanses are almost irrelevant and in PvE there is a concept called overhealing ;p. Truth be told, it’s even possible to clear the raid with a berzerker druid.
Um, yeah about that… I think forgot the buffing part for the revenant. Because everything they did amounts only to nerfs and some bug fixes with a major nerf to underpowered builds…
I think rev forum is dead (like what.. 3 regular posters? lol) as for in game ~2 weeks ago before i completely stopped logging in i could count revs in wvw on one hand in zergs, there wasnt many revs in HoT zones either and spvp.. i would place them at 5th spot in population.
Overall yes, just like our forum rev seems to be dead. Im not surprised tho, how long you can really run the same weapons and utility skills while being bugged as kitten at same time?
Would be 4 if I wasn’t busy in RL ;p. I’m not seeing as many revenants when I play too.
You can rebind the skill keys… which is generally enough for KB/M use, but if you prefer to click skill icons (and, well, some people do) the tools are very limited, yeah. Pretty much just reordering the utility skills, and for the Revenant, not even that.
You mean i can crit someone for 4k if im lucky as opening, swap to sword and pretent i dont have wep swap, cause once i swap back to hammer i might as well /dance and type gg?
Shiro.. do you mean i have to use Shiro+waste all my energy to kite someone for 2 seconds while other ranged weps comes with knockbacks, chills/cripple/immobilize, gap openers and even stealth while this garbage has nothing of it?
Besides, hammer is a Jalis weapon, not Shiro. Do you see a connection here?
I want viable ranged wep choice, not garbage like Jalis – for me rev doesnt have any ranged weapon. Sword doing better job as ranged weapon than hammer and that sums it up. Hammer died in the moment where CoR cd was raised by 100%
Lol at that rant about hammer being too weak and yet every Rev uses it and wrecks face with it.
About hammer being a jails weapon, I don’t see the connection that makes that true.
AFAIK hammer is only used in WvW and only for ZvZ.
On Ventari I specifically disagree with you on the healing output of NH.
NH can and has to have its healing increased, VW can probably get the same increase considering that right now both have the same cost/healing.
The reason NH can have the output increased is that it only has big numbers if you compare the total healing output to a druid or a tempests you’ll see that Ventari is UP.
If you throw into the equation the ease of landing those heals druids and tempests win by a large margin.
Yeah I’ve started looking into how much Druids/Tempests heal for and Ventari heals seem to fall quite a bit short, especially since Revenants have to use all of their energy to try to heal as much, and then they can’t really do anything else for a while until it regenerates. It’s even a bit worse considering Ventari has no water fields which scale exceptionally well with larger groups blasting them. I’m not exactly sure how much more NH/VW would have to heal for to be on par though.
In my estimations it’s around 30% on NH and VW. Staff 4 and shield 4 should also get a better scaling.
CDs on skills are pretty much nonexistent. Shortest CDs of any profession next to Thief
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