“Want it handed to you!” is such a bull-gravy attack. Wants something in a 2 year time frame v. 6 year = “handed to you” … smh.
Maybe Harper is more ready to believe ANet has the chops and will to remove a cap and unwilling to believe they’ll majorly revamp AP in any other way. I certainly have no faith that ANet will do the latter.
If my daily log-in AP and rewards go away – so might my log-ins. This is an MMO – i am kept here and still play because of a sense of progression. The less I progress the less I feel inclined to play.
Exactly this. Chasing the carrot has always been more fun than catching it. Once you have it, you chase a new carrot. That’s the nature of MMOs. Otherwise, why bother adding new loot and achievements?
Very few carrots in the game right now for hardcore players. Invested – dedicated players.
I won’t make stuff I don’t like or don’t use – so while I don’t have every legendary in the game I have every legendary I’m going to make out of the current lot. I have all the prestige skins I want.
I need something to work towards – and there’s simply not much there.
With legendary armor coming god knows when and Legendary weapons “indefinitely on hold” high-end AP backpieces are something I would focus on.
If here they fall they shall live on when ever you cry “For Ascalon!”
No I haven’t.
I don’t log in because of dailies – I log in because of rewards. You stop givine me rewards and I will stop logging in.
If my daily log-in AP and rewards go away – so might my log-ins.
This is an MMO – i am kept here and still play because of a sense of progression. The less I progress the less I feel inclined to play.
But AP is such a worthless reward. It’s only use is to wave it in another player’s face. Sure you get the occasional AP chest, now. As an aside, at the start we didn’t even get chests. But dailies now give 2 gold which is much more useful so there’s your reward, even if you don’t like the token daily chest items or spirit shards.
It’s not worthless. That’s one of the few good skins left in the game for me.
Your AP use might be different than mine – maybe you like to wave it in another player’s face. I occasionally use it to judge how a player might perform before I group up – but it has more value to me as a means to an end – and that end is right there. The backpiece.
Two gold is useless to me. I know how to farm. I’ll take the gold but I want my AP reward.
My reward is currently AP+gold+spirit shards. I want my full reward. If my reward lessens so will my play time.
It’s very simple.
If here they fall they shall live on when ever you cry “For Ascalon!”
So, if it’s not about players catching up, as some against lifting the cap have said, or about the need to log in to do as many dailies as possible because ANeT has simplified the daily system, why is there a cap? If none of the above reasons apply, then why? All of you who are against lifting the cap have given no real reason, other than “I’m against it” or “Dailies aren’t really an achievement”.
So to all the nay sayers:
How does lifting the cap harm you?
How does it limit you?
Will you quit the game if it’s lifted?
Would you benefit from the cap being lifted?
Are just saying it because you have some sort of desire to keep people down?
Is this an ego thing for you to not want the cap being lifted?
As for me I hit the cap, as I have played since release of GW2. I’d love for it to be lifted, and get my points retroactively awarded(but I’d live with it if they weren’t). Everyone benefits from the cap being lifted. It harms no one.
Players who have hit the cap and have kept playing have demonstrated their loyalty to the game so why not have ANeT demonstrate its loyalty to us?
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I like the Daily/Monthly AP Cap and would prefer it to stay.
The PvP reward pots alone are good enough incentive, those things are amazing. Like the 50 Free Bloodstone Rubies for a few minutes of effort every day to fill the track is practically overkill. I’ve gotten 150 total so far just from dailies.
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Anet said a couple years back that they were thinking about ways to sell LWS1 in the Gem Store, but they’re busy with making new content. Something about a problem with how S1 was programmed that doesn’t work like S2 and on.
I know you are familiar with the forums, and thus, Dev responses. I’m sure we can expect LWS1 to be available sometime after new Legendaries.
In the meantime, again X + (y – y) will never equal X + y.
and this is one of the arguments against the cap. It provides a reason not to log in for a game that needs the log in numbers for various reasons.
Monthly subscriptions fill that same hole, but nobody seems to be arguing for that.
Not really. Monthly subscriptions will encourage people to log in during that month but actively stops people from casually logging in if they’ve stopped the subscription. AP caps can act as a discouragement to some people but it doesn’t block them from logging in like a cancelled subscription does.
One thing I’ve been wondering about. I get most of my mystic forge stones from the achievement chests. If you’ve been capped for some time do you run out of the mf stones and can’t make the mystic salvage kits or do you get enough from other sources?
If you run out, buy from bltc
That’s what I figured. If you’re capped it becomes a gemstore thing instead of a free thing.
Agreed. I’m surprised at some of the responses here and elsewhere. The argument is basically, “Let others catch up while you get nothing.”
That seems rather one-sided. But let’s go with that. When will ‘everyone’ catch up? When can we then raise the bar as far as the cap?
Except that you still get 2 gold and 3 spirit shards for doing your dailies, among either karma, mats, PvP/WvW reward track potions. You aren’t getting nothing if you have maxed your daily AP. You are still getting quite a lot from them.
Don’t cherry pick. That has nothing to do with this discussion. We’re talking about AP. They can keep all the gold and spirit shards involved. That’s not the point of this thread. Nor the point of progressing your achievement tab.
Your example has nothing to do with what you quoted. Nothing to do with the cap. And nothing to do with this ‘waiting for everyone to catch up’ excuse.
You’re the one cherrypicking here. You claim that the argument is “Let others catch up while you get nothing.”, which is simply not true.
Just because you are not getting AP from the dailies anymore does not mean you are getting nothing from them. You can’t claim that you get nothing from them, as that is cherrypicking and borderline pedantic. Using your arguments, I should be compensated extra for doing more than 3 dailies each day because I’m “getting nothing” for the extra dailies I do.
Dailies reward everyone, you can’t justifiably deny that. And besides, its not like a newer player is going to catch up to the people who have maxed out their AP from dailies anyway, its just not going to happen, even if ANet just maxed out the daily AP for everyone, these players missed out on all of the extremely generous AP from season 1 releases. They are never going to come close to you.
Let’s make this simple. I am AP capped for my daily AP. You are not.
I log in.
You log in.
I get nothing.
You get something.
We both did the same thing – I did it for longer and am still doing it now yet I’m no longer rewarded for it.
Why?
Cause you’ve been successfully conditioned to login and do dailies. You don’t need that food pellet anymore, you just tap that little buzzer to your heart’s content.
I don’t do dailies for the AP, I do them simply to do something. I do them for the 3 shards that I then use to promote mats for profit. I do them for the token karma or reward track bonus. I certainly don’t do them just to have a big number or the fugly weapon and armor skin. I’m surprised when I get a chest cause I’m not playing for the AP total.
The 2 gold now is a nice bonus I wish they started years ago but I tend to give half of that away to friendly mesmers on days when I finally get frustrated by a JP and take the shortcut they offer.
No I haven’t.
I don’t log in because of dailies – I log in because of rewards. You stop givine me rewards and I will stop logging in.
If my daily log-in AP and rewards go away – so might my log-ins.
This is an MMO – i am kept here and still play because of a sense of progression. The less I progress the less I feel inclined to play.
To put it simply – no food pellet – no monkey button press. You might have been conditioned to do dailies “just to do something” but I and a lot of the people I know do them exclusively because of the rewards. Rewards go? I stop.
Do I still do dungeons? Not really – ever since the rewards got nerfed first.
Do I Still do EOTM? Not really – since the rewards got nerfed.
I play for rewards – no rewards? No play.
I certainly don’t do them just to have a big number or the fugly weapon and armor skin.
I agree – the weapons are bad and armor is ugly but the radiant back piece is the best looking back piece in this game.
I’m surprised when I get a chest cause I’m not playing for the AP total.
Congratulations – they’ve almost conditioned you to play for free.
The 2 gold now is a nice bonus I wish they started years ago but I tend to give half of that away to friendly mesmers on days when I finally get frustrated by a JP and take the shortcut they offer.
When they started this I started doing dailies on my second account. More reward = more play.
If here they fall they shall live on when ever you cry “For Ascalon!”
If you are still complaining about being handed 2 gold and 3 spirit shards every day then I don’t know what else to tell you. You keep acting as if you are getting nothing for doing the dailies because you have hit the AP cap, which is an outright lie. You are still getting 2 gold, 3 spirit shards, karma, PvP/WvW reward track progression. You are hardly getting nothing. And until you stop pretending as if you are getting nothing I really have trouble taking your arguments seriously.
Who cares about 2g when you can get it just for same 5m, simply by jumping to current farm map? How about AP rewards? You know, 30k+, 36k+. There is no sane way to farm them anymore. This is same level of bullkitten as old WvW titles, grossly overstretched requirements for no purpose.
The cap should either stay where it is, or increase proportionally to match the AP of discontinued achievements. Simply put, AP from discontinued achievs should count as daily AP.
Best idea I’ve heard on the topic!
Someone copypaste this to reddit so the devs’ll see it.
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Dont raise it , it was a big releave when i did finally reach the cap. I dont feel the need to log in every day now. So I could skip a day of playing gw. I think this is a nice amount to have a cap.
and this is one of the arguments against the cap. It provides a reason not to log in for a game that needs the log in numbers for various reasons.
You can earn 15k daily AP, for a new players that’s 4 years playing, for people who played from the start its less, as dailies where worth 5AP for each daily in the early game, so what Anet is saying really is enjoy the game for 4 years new players then we cut your progression..
This is a little misleading. The old dailies awarded 1 point each, with 10 to choose from (iirc it was 6 PvE, 2 PvP and 2 WvW).
That was later. Originally they were worth 5 ap per one daily achievement (though there was a smaller number of them to pick from).
I actually have to agree with Malediktus, remove the points altogether and double the permanent ones we earned/can earn, and seriously look at the latest and further achievements award points. It would completely solve this non issue.
Agreed, but again I’m trying to be realistic. I can also already hear the backlash. After all, if this is done, what about the new players who didn’t get this opportunity to gain those now defunct AP and are ‘trying to catch up.’
Can’t have it both ways.
Malediktus has said clearly several times in the past that he wants to have an advantage no new players will ever be able to surpass. Thus, he’s consistently supporting any idea that would increase the gap between current AP leaderboard leaders and everyone else. Removing AP from dailies and doubling all the rest would definitely do exactly that.
It has nothing to do with people “catching up”. ANet introduced the cap because a small minority of AP hunters were complaining about being “forced” to login every day and do dailies to keep their spots on the AP leaderboards, and apparently this was too stressful for them to handle.
Which argument no longer applies. The problem then was that the AP hunters felt the need to do every possible daily to get the maximum daily AP reward. Now they don’t need to, it’s enough to do only 3 of them. It’s just that Anet didn’t reverse the caps when they later introduced a far better solution to that problem.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
I’ve only seen one argument that’s affected my opinion:
AP chests are loyalty rewards.
A permanent cap on dailies limits the rewards of those who who demonstrate their loyalty by playing every day.
I disagree, because they implemented “loyalty chests” as the 30-day login reward. AP chests are supposed to be rewards for achieving the most in game. Daily achievements are anything but.
There is not a single “Achievement” available in the game that passes for a real achievement. A more accurate name for AP would be “Doing-Stuff Points.” The points simply serve the purpose of adding to the list of things to do that makes up an MMO. Some points are just more tedious to get than others.
I know it’s now ‘common knowledge’, but did ArenaNet ever state that the cap on Daily Achievements was to ‘allow newer players to catch up’? Or was that just something that the forums decided?
I don’t remember the Devs stating any particular reason for the cap. Mention of the cap was added to the Wiki in June of 2014 (when the cap was 10,000 AP). Nothing in the patch notes about it as far back as the April 2014 (major) update.
The News Blog about the new Daily System with Log-in Rewards and the choice of completing the 4 Dailies out of 12 was released in December of 2014. Again, nothing about allowing new players to catch up; it was more about ‘give(ing) players the opportunity to try things they may not normally experience and feel like the rewards they earn for doing so mean something’.
Thus, I’m not sure that the Daily Cap is all about ‘catching up’.
It has nothing to do with people “catching up”. ANet introduced the cap because a small minority of AP hunters were complaining about being “forced” to login every day and do dailies to keep their spots on the AP leaderboards, and apparently this was too stressful for them to handle.
I’m not one of those using the ‘catching up’ reason for the cap on Dailies.
Thus, my post wondering where this ‘reason’ originated. It may be possible that the Devs have a completely different reason for the cap.
I’ve only seen one argument that’s affected my opinion:
AP chests are loyalty rewards.
A permanent cap on dailies limits the rewards of those who who demonstrate their loyalty by playing every day.
I disagree, because they implemented “loyalty chests” as the 30-day login reward. AP chests are supposed to be rewards for achieving the most in game. Daily achievements are anything but.
The fact that we have the 30-day login reward does not invalidate the daily AP and AP milestones as loyalty rewards.
The game has more than ONE loyalty reward system.
It has two
One rewards you for just logging in – and it does that by giving you your daily log-in chest.
One rewards you for logging in and doing some stuff – and it does that by giving you 10 AP – 2 gold and some spirit shards.
They are working together as a tiered system. You show up – you get this. You do some more stuff – you get more.
If here they fall they shall live on when ever you cry “For Ascalon!”
I know it’s now ‘common knowledge’, but did ArenaNet ever state that the cap on Daily Achievements was to ‘allow newer players to catch up’? Or was that just something that the forums decided?
I don’t remember the Devs stating any particular reason for the cap. Mention of the cap was added to the Wiki in June of 2014 (when the cap was 10,000 AP). Nothing in the patch notes about it as far back as the April 2014 (major) update.
The News Blog about the new Daily System with Log-in Rewards and the choice of completing the 4 Dailies out of 12 was released in December of 2014. Again, nothing about allowing new players to catch up; it was more about ‘give(ing) players the opportunity to try things they may not normally experience and feel like the rewards they earn for doing so mean something’.
Thus, I’m not sure that the Daily Cap is all about ‘catching up’.
It has nothing to do with people “catching up”. ANet introduced the cap because a small minority of AP hunters were complaining about being “forced” to login every day and do dailies to keep their spots on the AP leaderboards, and apparently this was too stressful for them to handle.
I was there when that happened and the AP hunters had a valid point. Back then the 10 AP you could get per day were spread out over 10 dailies.
So if you wanted 10 AP per day you had to spend maybe one hour or more doing ALL the dailies. I can understand why they wanted this changed.
But right now that cap is useless – there’s no more pressure to do all your dailies to get all your AP because daily AP is easy now. 3/10 dailies and you’re done. It will NOT take you more than 10 minutes.
So the change that was made for them should be reverted – because their original reasons for asking for the cap no longer exist in game.
If here they fall they shall live on when ever you cry “For Ascalon!”
I’ve only seen one argument that’s affected my opinion:
AP chests are loyalty rewards.
A permanent cap on dailies limits the rewards of those who who demonstrate their loyalty by playing every day.
That’s pretty much the core of it. It’s counter intuitive the way it is now -you get rewarded for being loyal to GW2 but if you’re too loyal (by being loyal for very long) you won’t get anything anymore.
Because instead of getting MORE rewards as you invest MORE time and effort into being loyal – at one point when you’re “loyal enough” you should stop being rewarded.
Makes a lot of sense to me.
If here they fall they shall live on when ever you cry “For Ascalon!”
Agreed. I’m surprised at some of the responses here and elsewhere. The argument is basically, “Let others catch up while you get nothing.”
That seems rather one-sided. But let’s go with that. When will ‘everyone’ catch up? When can we then raise the bar as far as the cap?
Except that you still get 2 gold and 3 spirit shards for doing your dailies, among either karma, mats, PvP/WvW reward track potions. You aren’t getting nothing if you have maxed your daily AP. You are still getting quite a lot from them.
Don’t cherry pick. That has nothing to do with this discussion. We’re talking about AP. They can keep all the gold and spirit shards involved. That’s not the point of this thread. Nor the point of progressing your achievement tab.
Your example has nothing to do with what you quoted. Nothing to do with the cap. And nothing to do with this ‘waiting for everyone to catch up’ excuse.
You’re the one cherrypicking here. You claim that the argument is “Let others catch up while you get nothing.”, which is simply not true.
Just because you are not getting AP from the dailies anymore does not mean you are getting nothing from them. You can’t claim that you get nothing from them, as that is cherrypicking and borderline pedantic. Using your arguments, I should be compensated extra for doing more than 3 dailies each day because I’m “getting nothing” for the extra dailies I do.
Dailies reward everyone, you can’t justifiably deny that. And besides, its not like a newer player is going to catch up to the people who have maxed out their AP from dailies anyway, its just not going to happen, even if ANet just maxed out the daily AP for everyone, these players missed out on all of the extremely generous AP from season 1 releases. They are never going to come close to you.
Let’s make this simple. I am AP capped for my daily AP. You are not.
I log in.
You log in.
I get nothing.
You get something.
We both did the same thing – I did it for longer and am still doing it now yet I’m no longer rewarded for it.
Why?
If here they fall they shall live on when ever you cry “For Ascalon!”
The thing is, if you remove one cap of repeatable achievement points, you should really remove it from the others.
You know, Agent of Entropy (capped at 250pts) Hobby Dungeon Explorer (capped at 200pts). Fractal Frequenter is not even repeatable (Why? This doesn’t make sense to me and should be repeatable like the Hobby Dungeon achievement) yet I’ve never seen anyone complain about these having a cap. Why? Why does the Daily point cap get so much fuss but the other caps do not?
The Daily AP cap gets so much fuss and is different than the others because it is daily.
Unlike those other achievements that you could ( if they were not capped) farm indefinitely in-game the daily cap is a reward for loyalty and sticking with the game.
You log in and do your dailies every day – that’s your reward.
I also feel the cap should be removed. Even without it the gap between new and old players by now is so large that “catching up” isn’t something one should expect to be able to do quickly (or at all).
if someone has 25 k ap right now and has been playing for 4 years straight – daily AP cap or no-daily AP cap – you’re never catching up if you start now.
You’ve missed out on too many one-time living world things and whatnot to catch up.
So it’s ok to remove a hard cap (15k AP) as long as there is a daily soft cap (10AP). So why not do that for other repeatables? You’re still asking for a source of unlimited AP.
This is the thing, because most people at 20,000ish K AP have stagnated on acquiring AP, they rely on Daily AP to push to the next reward.
Instead of asking about the AP imbalance of what we get now for achievements compared to what we used to get. How many new achievements (mainly how many points are associated with them) are added into the game compared to how many are retired. It’s instead turned on the Daily AP cap, not the imbalance. Do you see how completely backwards that is?
We all draw loyalty from different places, some from the wardrobe, how many legedaries you have, your fractal level, PvP level, WvW rank etc. Having your Daily AP capped at 15k, plus all the permanent points, should be enough to tell you how loyal you are.
I actually have to agree with Malediktus, remove the points altogether and double the permanent ones we earned/can earn, and seriously look at the latest and further achievements award points. It would completely solve this non issue.
Because the point here is to give something for something. Anet’s game model relies on player exposure to gem-store items in order to increase the chances you’ll buy something.
For that purpose the entire daily log-in reward system was created – in an effort to make players log in every day in order to increase the chances they’ll be exposed to some gemstore sale or another.
Daily player retention is a core requirement for any game that has a “gem store”.
The soft cap of only 10 per day is there to make you come back the next day. It is also good because it will over time differentiate between players that STICK with the game for the long haul vs players that log on infrequently.
I would also like more AP added into the game to fix the stagnation but I also realize that AP is added into the game when associated with content and there is very little content being added – so thus I can’t ask for more AP.
They could make the little content we get now reward disproportionately high amounts of AP when compared to older content but that would really upset players. Including me.
I would LOVE more content in the game and would WANT more AP associated with said content but the sad truth is we’re not going to see that for a long time.
AP keeps people logging in – if it’s not capped then there are higher chances you’ll make some people keep coming back every day. Better odds they might actually like some gem store thing and buy it.
If here they fall they shall live on when ever you cry “For Ascalon!”
I don’t understand how so many people are capped. Like 15000/10/365 means you need to do the daily 365 days a year for over 4 years???
How are there that many people completely dedicated to logging in every day? I mean this game is only about 4 years old right? It’s crazy.
It’s because of the old Monthly achievements which used to award upwards of 100AP/month. Plus seasonal Dailies you used to get with like Halloween/Wintersday. Maybe you should read the entire thread before posting.
Some people really love to play. I do, have done for 4yrs, but I’m still 6k off this cap.
I don’t get why they need to let people catch up…
Like I am personally sitting on around 10k AP with 3.7k of it being from the daily….
So I have a looooong way to go until I reach the daily cap. The thing is ever since I found out about this cap.. I have been less motivated to log in and get those daily 10AP knowing that there is a cap on it anyway… 1 daily sooner or later wont change much.
Having that cap is really not a good idea……
Look at how effective someone is in a full Soldiers set.
Look at how effective someone is in a full Dire set.
Nice balance.
I don’t get why this ‘catching up’ is such a big deal in the first place. It’s not a competition….
So some vets have a lot more AP than a new player, so what? It’s only logical since they have been playing a lot longer. And you can’t ‘catch up’ anyway because not all achievements are available anymore.
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