Guild Wars 2

Vayne.8563:

Harper.4173:

Hyper Cutter.9376:

If Anet wanted people hopping maps to loot multiple finished metas, they wouldn’t have designed Dragon’s Stand explicitly to prevent that exact thing.

But you can still loot the entire DS without doing ONE event to help the map.

If they wanted you to get rewards ONLY for participating then this would not be possible – and right now it is – in DS, TD, AB and VB. You can open chests regardless of any participation in the events.

You can’t loot the end DS chest without participating.

Yes – and you don’t get the End of Tarir event loot if you’re not participating in said event.

The only difference is that the DS chest is in one place and the Tarir final chest is a pop-up. But they’re basically the same thing.

The bulk of the loot in BOTH cases comes from the other chests that work with a key system.

You can open chests in Tarir just like you can open Noxious Pods in DS – without participating in the event itself.

That’s what I’m referring to – you can loot the map without getting the event reward.

Hyper Cutter.9376:

If Anet wanted people hopping maps to loot multiple finished metas, they wouldn’t have designed Dragon’s Stand explicitly to prevent that exact thing.

But you can still loot the entire DS without doing ONE event to help the map.

If they wanted you to get rewards ONLY for participating then this would not be possible – and right now it is – in DS, TD, AB and VB. You can open chests regardless of any participation in the events.

Hyper Cutter.9376:

If Anet wanted people hopping maps to loot multiple finished metas, they wouldn’t have designed Dragon’s Stand explicitly to prevent that exact thing.

True, but isn’t it interesting how they already have code to prevent multi mapping (in the form of DS) but have not implemented that in AB?

I’m ambivalent about the topic, but if Anet felt it was a major disruption to the economy, they should have acted by now.

Vayne.8563:

Any change to the meta in AB is going to come with collateral damage. Some people will be unhappy and some of those will leave. Probably not as many as threaten to leave.

On the other hand, it’ll mean more people doing other metas, like TD and VB, which would make some of us happier and, in my opinion, would be worth it in the long run.

The AB meta is something that’s been going on for too long. It really doesn’t help the game as a whole. It helps the types of people that can farm the same event over and over again because it’s profitable. I submit that’s not a majority of the playerbase.

As long the AB meta pulls people from other areas of the game, it’s a problem that needs addressing in my opinion.

no it will mean everyone will go back to silverwastes which already provides the most gold per time spent. only reason people dont do it now is because its such a boring grind. ab is actually kinda fun.but hey if people want to make ectos rare as hell again thats fine by me.

MithranArkanere.8957:

The reason it should get fixed is very simple:

• People who did not participate in an event are getting rewards from it.

No one can participate at the same time in all those instances, so those who jump to another instance are getting rewards they didn’t earn.
If you want to enter into how good or bad those rewards are that’s an entirely different matter.
Someone who did not participate in something should not be rewarded as if they did.

That also goes for any other content. For example:

• In silverwastes, keys should be removed, replaced by just shovels. And shovels earned by playing as event rewards from defendign and retaking forts, for keeping the skritt tunnels open and the second waypoint ready, and from bonus map rewards. Then dig spots should appear as the forts progress tying rewards to events.
• In dungeons and fractals, that should get their rewards scaled based on personal participation, and when players get kicked, instead being sent outside the instance, they should end up in a copy of the instance, while keeping their own participation, so they can still get friends and guildies to finish the content instead losing all progress, but those friends won’t get as rewarded because they entered late., preventing this being used to ‘split’ instances on purpose to sell the rewards at the chest, and discouraging kicking players to sell the rewards, and encuraging getting players to run for the start when selling paths like when selling mission rushes in GW1 so path sellers would be more likely to teach those paths, since no one would buy a run if it isn’t from the start as they won’t be getting rewards and achievements.
• In world bosses, chest should give a daily Hero Choice bag to everyone who get 100% participation by participating enough during the event and pre-events. That bag should give a choice between things like rare weapon bags, stacks of materials like cloth and leather, crests, rare materials and the like. Thus rewarding more those that participate in the entire event over those that arrive to press 1.

And all those things should happen while also makng sure people keep their participation and rewards even if they disonnect. So if you were in an AB that just finished and disconnect, you can still talk with a tarnished exalted to enter the treasure chambers and open the chests you earned for the rest of the day on any map, even if the map in which you finished doesn’t even exist anymore.

Really?
I don’t participate in most of the Dragon Stand map event and still loot every chest. There is precedent for this – even in other maps.

IF Anet wanted you to get rewards based strictly on your participation it would reward you the loot at the end of the event. The fact that we have a loot system that involves chests that can be opened even if you did not do the meta clearly shows they wanted people to be able to loot even if they did not participate in the meta.

You don’t seem to realize that the EARNING of the reward is the KEY you use to open the chest. If you have that key then clearly you have earned the right to open the chest.

It’s THAT easy.

The real thing here is that you want a different system – and I get that. But the system WE HAVE clearly shows what the devs intended. If you have the key – you can open the chest.

Vayne.8563:

On the other hand, it’ll mean more people doing other metas, like TD and VB, which would make some of us happier and, in my opinion, would be worth it in the long run.

That’s not gonna happen. People do AB for the loot, they don’t do it because they enjoy HoT metas. If AB gets nerfed they’ll just move onto the next most profitable thing which is probably SW right now or even Bloodstone Fen.

As long the AB meta pulls people from other areas of the game, it’s a problem that needs addressing in my opinion.

Many things pull people from other areas of the game, not sure why you think this is a problem. Every time a new chapter of LS comes out people rush to it, it pulls people from the game to a specific area so it’s bad?

You have to understand, the people that specifically grind AB won’t suddenly go do VB if it’s nerfed just like people that login just for LS3 won’t suddenly go do VB when LS is unavailable. They MIGHT do it but it’s overly optimistic to expect even half of them to do such a thing.

Vayne.8563:

Hesacon.8735:

hornswroggle.8023:

No.

AB Multilooting is an exploit and it subjectively hurts the economy, because it damages the prices of all tradable loot in the game. It doesnt work in DS for a reason and so it should here.

Fixed.

I’m not sure how it’s subjective. It’s a form of inflation. If you can increase rewards to the point where they’re so profitable that people are threatening to leave if it’s fixed, something is wrong.

No aspect of the game should be so profitable that everything else pales in comparison, particularly something that’s 15 minutes long than almost anyone can do.

When you pour gold/loot into the system, you get inflation, which is objectively bad for the economy.

It forces people to play stuff like the AB multimeta if they want to afford things, because a bunch of people who do it can afford to pay more, and prices go up for everyone…but not everyone does it or wants to do it.

There’s nothing subjective about it.

Do you understand inflation at all? Read what I wrote above.

There is a SET finite amount of gold in this game that is at any moment in time distributed among the players. Inflation IS NOT GENERATED when materials are used as rewards because exchanging those materials with another player takes gold out of the game through the TP.

Inflation is generated when solid gold is added to the game out of thin air – see dungeons.

What you are trying to describe is that it increases the gap between “farmers” and “non-farmers” -but that’s not inflation.
The purchasing power of gold INCREASES every time an AB multi-map finishes – because at the end of it – when people sell everything – there is LESS GOLD IN THE GAME than there was before the AB-multimap. So each gold is now worth a little bit more – since there is LESS OF IT.

Is it really that hard to understand?

Vayne.8563:

Any change to the meta in AB is going to come with collateral damage. Some people will be unhappy and some of those will leave. Probably not as many as threaten to leave.

On the other hand, it’ll mean more people doing other metas, like TD and VB, which would make some of us happier and, in my opinion, would be worth it in the long run.

The AB meta is something that’s been going on for too long. It really doesn’t help the game as a whole. It helps the types of people that can farm the same event over and over again because it’s profitable. I submit that’s not a majority of the playerbase.

As long the AB meta pulls people from other areas of the game, it’s a problem that needs addressing in my opinion.

Just because people do AB doesn’t mean they’ll do VB or TD. The metas are different. And the TD meta isn’t even interfering with the AB one time-wise.

Also – it “pulls people” for what? 30-40 minutes?
The same statement about “it’s hurting the game because it pulls people from the rest of the game” can be made about anything you choose to dislike.

Blipp.5206:

@hornswroggle +1 I also see it as an exploit and please don’t pretend it does not hurt the economy. A single looting of the chests is enough reward for putting the effort of completing a meta event. Looting multiple times those chests -is- an exploit despite many sugar coating it and saying it isn’t. The way I see it you should put time and effort for the loot and reward you get. I dont think anyone should be rewarded with so much rewards for simply forming a squad and jumping across several maps. This multiloot thing needs to end, imo.

Can you people please explain to me HOW it hurts the economy? I mean I’ve seen you and many other posters keep going “It hurts the economy” – but HOW? Can you be a bit more specific?

Because the way I see it is this:

AB Multimap does not give you straight-out GOLD rewards – which means it rewards you in two other ways:
-Account bound stuff – which is account bound and thus has no impact on the economy
-Materials and Rares that are worth money.

Now those materials and rares are worthless by themselves and you need to sell them on the TP in order to get your money out of them. Every time you do that the TP tax that’s taken means gold is being taken away from the game which in turn decreases inflation.

So let’s sum it up:
By forcing people to sell their stuff via the TP in order to get their monetary value out of it inflation is decreased. By generating rares ( which in turn give ectos) and materials not only is it decreasing inflation ( see TP stuff before) but also lowering the prices for all players on these specific items.

Explain to me now how this is bad.

Vayne.8563:

Hesacon.8735:

Vayne.8563:

I disagree. Creating more gold means more people can offer more to buy stuff. So maybe ectos come down a drop, that’s true. That’s one item. But higher end items can actually end up going up.

The problem is when people have more gold they can afford to pay more for luxury items. Items end up in bidding wars and they go higher then the average player will ever be able to afford.

People who used to get ectos from the world boss train will return to the world boss train. The price of ectos isn’t that much lower than back then.

But the price of a lot of other stuff, higher end stuff keeps going up, because people have more money and can outbid each other.

No gold is created in AB. Seriously, have you gotten a single coin from a chest in AB? Go try one out.

Salvaging costs coin, selling on the trading post costs coin, keys cost coin. You might get 2-3 silver per map from champion bags in chests, much less than it costs in coin to run the map.

Coin is destroyed because of AB, it has the opposite effect to what you think is happening.

Let’s think about this, say you do 5 maps and get 25 ectos. How does this balance sheet work in terms of coin removed from the economy? Let’s say ectos sell for 33 silver, they’ve been floating around there.

• -15.36 silver from salvaging
• +15 silver from champion bags

Let’s say these cancel out.

33 silver * 25 ectos = 8.25 gold

• You get 7 gold (after the 15% trading post tax)
• 1.25 gold vanishes from the economy never to be seen again

Fewer coins in circulation causes deflation. If there is inflation, it’s coming from elsewhere like 2 gold per day for doing dailies.

Ecto prices would almost certainly rise without AB in its current form, remember when ectos were over 50 silver each?

http://www.gw2shinies.com/item/19721

Two things happened to bring them down:

• Someone posted about AB on the forums, so people knew about the multi-map and more people started to do it, increasing supply and lowering prices
• Some people horded ectos thinking AB was going to be nerfed with the summer update. When it wasn’t, people unloaded their ectos leading to a sudden shock to the supply

But the underlying uses of them haven’t gone down. So if AB gets nerfed, ecto prices will go back up, probably to 50 silver or higher over a couple weeks. That is subjectively either a good or a bad thing depending on who you ask, my entire point.

If you’re creating an item, whether it’s coin or worth coin, you’re causing inflation. People are making money from selling stuff to other people, but they’re still getting money much faster than they otherwise would be. That’s why multimapping is so popular. It’s not popular because ZOMG AB is the most fascinating event in all of Guild Wars 2. AB is the most profitable event in all of Guild Wars 2. Inflation or not that actually represents a problem. It’s not just more profitable but MUCH more profitable. If it wasn’t threads like this probably wouldn’t exist.

When people get large amounts of money from getting ten times the reward they would normally get, I don’t see how anyone can not expect that to affect the economy.

And since this is now very tangential to the topic at hand I’m going to have to leave it here, because I can’t afford more infractions.

Well , i think you don’t understand how Economics work . First , You need understand about " Raw Gold " , " Raw Gold " is a kind of gold you received directly from Game System like : Open Chest ( few silver ) , Daily Complete ( 2 gold ) , Do TEQ ( 1 gold ) , sell item direct to NPC … This is a kind of gold which is added to Economics System and cause inflation .
Trade between player and player is just moving gold from other to other and Hey ! Tax is the most nice thing which is invented by human …. That’s how gold remove from Game .
The last time i check in AB multi map : IT’s just generate item which sell on TP for gold .
So , basically . If you want inflate Economics system i suggest you sell everything you received when playing game to NPC : Material , Ectos , Green Blue Yellow Item even ascended and legendary item ……Sell everything

I’m just here to marvel at the outstanding individuals who still manage to convince themselves that AB multi is an “exploit” that needs to be fixed because they are either too “intelligent” to do it without being kicked from squads, jelly champ/SW farmers, or overconcerned people who don’t know what inflation means though they use that word all the time.

I don’t do AB farm or any other TD/VB/DS meta…

Sure I’d make a lot more gold grinding out AB but that’s boring af and if I try to maximize my gold gain every second of game play that basically becomes work instead of a game.

The people who want to grind AB do so for a reason, they have goals/targets to aim for that is why they do it. If you don’t feel like doing it then don’t, it is indeed a waste of time if you aren’t enjoying yourself and feel like you’re doing AB for no reason.

It all comes down to, why are you feeling left behind not farming AB? It’s not a big deal and with ecto prices so low and the gold/hr is totally overblown while things like Fotm 40 farm exists.

Entitled? Not necessarily. Many don’t want it for its rarity, they want it for its beauty (I’m one of those — I don’t give a flying fig for the rarity or dirt commonness of a skin, if it fits my look, other than “marker” skins like the Celebration Hat, and even that I just want to keep the unique logo and let everyone have baseball caps that want ’em …).

They introduced a melee staff profession and yet did not add much in the way of staff weapons that look made to physically hit things. So it does seem unfair that the one staff other than Bo and its pre-version that has a good sleek plausible melee design is so incredibly rare. If they added, say, at least ten melee-suitable staff skins that weren’t all so shiny as the Lightward, and made them as generally available as other staff categories, then having this one be so rare would be fine. (All my opinion as to what is fine and what is not, nor am I up in arms about it).

Besides, RNG is not the same as effort. Some people get the staff from their first cargo bash ever. Most people never get it even if they selflessly organize every VB map they’re in to T4 day after day and open thousands of cargoes in the process.

You can also look at the Wiki, which explains how to find the puzzle and how to complete it. Sometimes there’s links to videos too.

nah if people want to know where they are rather than exploring for them they should just look up a guide, leave the game itself as it is

Or new players could look at the Dailies offered each day, and voila! Jumping Puzzles with a method to show them where they are (approximately) on the map, right there next to the tiny compass. =)

New players should press H and explore what they find in there more often!

since the expansion it is pretty easy to find jps

always when you have a “no gliding zone” sign on your char you should suspect a jp nearby

Jumping Puzzles are called puzzles for a reason. Most of them also have indications that they are indeed puzzles. Look for subtle hints.

Like look at Troll’s Revenge in Lions Arch. You don’t really know where to go, but subtle hints (like the seagull poop) tell you that you’re in the right place, or at least going the right way.

Or, let’s say the Conundrum Cubed in Mt. Maelstrom. I immediately knew I was in a JP when I saw the cubes.

Or that one in Timberline Falls with the blue glowy spheres.

Hidden Garden was also organized in a manner that made you want to explore.

Scavengers Chasm was also set up so that you could collect all of the energy nodes.

Point is, JPs are relatively easy to recognize. They ARENT meant for everyone to find – they are simply places meant to “guard” treasure chests – the guard being the jumping puzzle itself.

Most achievements tell you the location of the JP, except for the Under New Management and the sanctums. But those you’ll find after enough WvW traveling.

Point is, they are all able to be found. Look for hints in the achievement, such as the name corresponding to names on the map of the done you’re in. Like Morgans Leap correlates to Morgans Spiral in Caledon Forest.

We don’t need arrows pointing us where to go. If you pass a JP, you pass it. Simple as that.

I’ve also ran into lots of players who blurted out certain JP whereabouts on map chat.

well i think when it comes down to it they just didnt have time to include such things in the scope of HoT.
when there was supposedly an entire lane cut from dragons stand map (nightmare court lane maybe) its easy to see why even if it were possible a largos could have been done in a HoT map that they weren’t

Astralporing.1957:

Linken.6345:

And here I thought people wanted scavanger hunts for the easy way to work towards a specific precursor without having to pray to rng jesus

Both, actually. We had the rng way, and we had the “paying through the nose” way. What people wanted was a way based not on rng, not on gold/mat sinks, but on effort.

And that is what we got.

Describe this effort, please, that does not require materials nor gold to achieve, but still has value. Crafting a precursor after gathering every material is not hard, it just takes time to gather the materials, time being the effort.

TheBlackLeech.9360:

Xillllix.3485:

The old legendary formula was fine. No need to change what already works, otherwise you get a disappointing mess like what happened here with the new legendaries.

Instead they should have focused on variety and quantity for every game mode.

How about 2-3 GvG maps (10v10) with a unique set of legendary precusors?
How about legendary versions of the fractal weapons?

There was so much potential with the old system where it didn’t take 2 years to implement 4 skins in the game.

2 Years?

Its almost been four.

The whole “building precursors” thing was something that was promised to us way back in 2012 and said to arrive in 2013.

I don’t understand how people can continue to defend how long this is taking.

You may have misread the date on the Blog you linked. Also, ‘promises’ with disclaimers aren’t really promises.

Aragorn.5462:

Reviving this because I’m hoping with the end of the content drought next week that ANET will be able to provide us with an estimate on when they plan to continue working on the promised content that came with the expansion we bought approx 9 months ago. Thanks!

Don’t hold your breath.

Zenith.7301:

It’s not even legendaries. They got away with murder this xpac.

Here you have an xpac priced at $60, the same of the base game.

But only with 4 maps, instead of the 23 in the base game. 3 raids, but NO dungeons. 1 “soon” to be released fractal.

3 armorsets instead of the 20+ of the base game, same with weapons, only a fraction.

Like, HoT isn’t even 1/5 of the content and rewards the base GW2 was, which cost the same $60.

All in-game rewards from vanilla release changed models into RNG extremely rare drops and immense gold grinds, with most new armor/weaponsets now on gemstore.

Dungeon token system completely gone in terms of acquisition models.

They reneged on everything in their manifesto and turned into your average F2P game where everything is tied to a gold economy and cash grabs driven by huge gold and RNG gates to acquire items to encourage people to buy gems and convert to gold if they don’t want to spend half a year to acquire enough gold to get a legendary weapon.

Look at precursor hunts, it’s a farce. People wanted a scavenger hunt so they wouldn’t have to pay a fortune for precursors, and instead they did a scavenger hunt that ends up being more expensive than the vanilla precursors themselves on TP.

*$50

Zenith.7301:

It’s not even legendaries. They got away with murder this xpac.

Here you have an xpac priced at $60, the same of the base game.

But only with 4 maps, instead of the 23 in the base game. 3 raids, but NO dungeons. 1 “soon” to be released fractal.

3 armorsets instead of the 20+ of the base game, same with weapons, only a fraction.

Like, HoT isn’t even 1/5 of the content and rewards the base GW2 was, which cost the same $60.

All in-game rewards from vanilla release changed models into RNG extremely rare drops and immense gold grinds, with most new armor/weaponsets now on gemstore.

Dungeon token system completely gone in terms of acquisition models.

They reneged on everything in their manifesto and turned into your average F2P game where everything is tied to a gold economy and cash grabs driven by huge gold and RNG gates to acquire items to encourage people to buy gems and convert to gold if they don’t want to spend half a year to acquire enough gold to get a legendary weapon.

Look at precursor hunts, it’s a farce. People wanted a scavenger hunt so they wouldn’t have to pay a fortune for precursors, and instead they did a scavenger hunt that ends up being more expensive than the vanilla precursors themselves on TP.

And here I thought people wanted scavanger hunts for the easy way to work towards a specific precursor without having to pray to rng jesus

cosmicegg.8502:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

So says you.

As was stated in one of the Guild Chat videos, non-ArenaNet Dev players often claim something is easy; the truth may be quite different. /shrug

Then they shouldn’t have taken money for content they were incapable of creating.

While I agree with this statement 100%

We must also change our ways as consumers and stop paying for unfinished projects, kickstarters, betas, prereleases etc.

The gaming industry capitalizes on this so much in today’s age, that they are rarely ever penalized for failing to deliver on a promise simply because they already have our money.

Hmm no lol, this is just a copy paste of wikiing “Excalibur” and the guide how to get Excalibur in FF4…

I was just trying to make a point on how creating lore and quests for an object takes much more work than simply drawing and adding special effects for said object lol…

Vyrulisse.1246:

We hear reasons they can’t do things yet constantly see a steady stream of gem store items ready to go.

My local dairy farmer has a stream of milk yet it takes years to grow new cows.
Once you’ve got a mesh it’s a lot easier to throw some textures on it than it is to create something from scratch. If that mesh is popular – like the glider, you’re going to have one guy make ten designs for you. Getting a whole new outfit designed with all the relevant meetings and discussions.. takes longer. Getting a whole new legendary collection up and running takes longer still.

And in the meantime you want to make money and you have these ten glider skins some guy made for you last week.. of course they’re going to appear on the gem store.

TheBlackLeech.9360:

the word ‘but’ is a conjugation, and separating the statements joined by the word undermines the statement as a whole.

Well it’s not.. it’s a conjunction and I’m not sure why you’d want to undermine your whole statement but carry on.
You don’t understand why they can’t make more legendaries when they can clearly make more gemstore items?
One takes a long time, one doesn’t. One costs them lots of money and one makes them lots of money.

It’s funny to see people think the work on the legendary is just about the skin and fail to realise how much improvment we saw on Chuka, collection wise.