Guild Wars 2

Wouldn’t it have been faster to just remove necro from the game? Why bother making all those changes to change us from completely unuseable to even more completely unuseable?

“Spectral Walk: This skill can no longer be activated while in mid-air.”
Rip out my heart, make me cry and kill my favorite skill why don’t you. If there’s a way to petition against this I’m all for it. All other changes I’m sure I can adjust to but not this.

Unfortunately it’s not like they’ll listen but still…

Arnath.2319:

Guardians got nerfed.

The devs proving once again that they hate Guardians. We are now officially the most broken profession in this game.

Rangers are competing for that spot. And I can tell you, the competition for the Guardian will be tough.

Wait, so if the trait isn’t listed there, it’s gone? So Hide in Plain Sight for Rangers is just gone like that? But you guys just modified it to make it more useful in March, and now you’re just taking it away like that?

I’m so looking forward to see condi specs everywhere i go,mesmers spamming torment and confusion while you get 100 random stacks of bleed on you cus a thief happend to roll by you…Oh kitten yeah im so looking forward to playing with these awesome changes !!! Best patch ever Anet ! You really know how to up the skill level!

aspirine.6852:

Wait wut, did you just nerf Necro. Was that really needed right now?

lol….yes they did (compared to all the other classes’ buffs)…..and no it wasn’t needed.

Wait wut, did you just nerf Necro. Was that really needed right now?

style.6173:

Blude.6812:

Ranger—nerf —nerf -- nerf.
Maybe one day anet will listen to their paying customers instead of giving them the 5 finger salute. But Anet knows best.

I can just imagine that you had this all planned out ahead of time. Then it turned out that ranger got a lot of buffs. So you had to decide what to do. Since you came up with something creative you decided to post it anyway. I understand.

Yeah, we will see how these “buffs” fare when the core ranger still won’t break into any of the metas. And why the hell they removed some of the interesesting trait proposals from the last stream is beyond me.

There is something wrong when a bloody awful trait like predator’s instinct isn’t just rolled into predator’s onslaught to keep it in line with all the other trait merges.

For the most part I think you did fine with the necro traits. The changes I am unhappy about are in the changes to necro skills or in some cases lack thereof.

Things that necro needed that was not addressed:

• We are starved of combo finishers.
• Axe is really weak, the auto attack in particular.
• Dark Path needs a rework to be able to act as a reliable gap closer. Even more important now with the new movement changes.
• We are the only class with no way to defend ourself from incoming projectiles.
• We are the least mobile class, but still have no stability or other way to protect from CC.

Nerfs that just seemed really unwarranted:

• Consume Conditions inflicts vuln and has longer cooldown.
• Lich only lasts for a lousy 15 seconds.
• Plague now inflicts conditions on ourself.
• Spectral Walk is not fun anymore.

There’s also a couple of grandmaster traits that just struck me as quite underwhelming:

• Dhuumfire only puts on 1 stack of burning for 3 seconds which is just really weak when you look at how slow the cast on Life Blast is. You can only maintain 2 burns by camping Life Blast. In a condi build you’re better off using other skills to stack lots of other conditions, and in a power build you’re better off just going for the 50% crit chance instead.
• Foot in the Grave grants 1 stack of stability for 3 seconds. This is not even enough to secure a stomp. Compare this to the Juggernaught trait for Engineer and it just pales in comparison. Also worth mentioning that this would not be as big of a deal if you could flash DS mid-stomp to get the stability, sadly going in or out of DS cancels anything you’re doing.

engineers and mesmers should be very happy…….the rest, not so much….but wow is necro bad (so many nerfs to an unused/underpowered class).

overall, VERY disappointing trait/balance reveal. much worse than the earlier preview (garbage traits remained, and good traits got nerfed…very few bad traits improved)…….not shocking, given how bad anet devs are at balancing their game.

good thing the dame iterates balance patches frequently….oh wait, it doesn’t.

Mesmer confirmed new ANet pet class.

Necromancer still getting kicked in the teeth.

I’ve hung around for a long time… If the changes are as kittenty as I think they’re going to be, I’ll be finished with the game. Of course, I’ll have to try the changes first, I won’t stop playing just based on what I see on paper here… But if it’s anything like I imagine it to be, ANet can kiss my wallet goodbye which has payed it a few hundred dollars every month.

That spectral walk change was unnecessary. Literally one of the coolest things about necromancers and now it’s gone.

I appreciate the effort taken to list all the changes, but…

This is just a complete mess at best. Very little has changed from the first preview despite a massive amount of player feedback. Weak traits which will never be used still remain. Many triplets still have obvious choices. Traits which should be competing against each other aren’t, specifically ones which boost damage. A lot of traits are still proc-based and more were added, overshadowing the active gameplay style which was originally promoted at release. Despite weaker skills receiving changes, core flaws in the skills weren’t addressed.

And now these are being forced onto us in an obviously incomplete state in a week? I guess we all get to be beta testers now for the rest of summer. Of course, it’s unlikely that our feedback will matter then, either.

Arnath.2319:

Guardians got nerfed.

The devs proving once again that they hate Guardians. We are now officially the most broken profession in this game.

lol. have you not heard of ranger? we have just been shot in the head. ugh (It’s just as well love my ranger regardless of the crappy changes they’ve made).

Okay ANet, what you just did is inexcusably disgraceful.

Not the changes mind you, that is your decision as the games developers. But the outright lie to the community that came with those changes, asking for feedback as if you actually had any intention to consider said feeback, when you clearly had no such intention.

“Please get on the forums and let us know if you see any playstyles that you don’t feel are represented in the new trait system.” That was what you said on stream, nearly word for word.

What a sham.

Players did exactly as you asked, half a dozen playstyles were extensively outlined and discussed in multiple thread, and you can still find those threads in the class subforums. And then you completely, unabashedly, ignored every single one of them. There is one single change based on player feedback, AE becoming baseline, that’s it. Was it all a giant shell game just to keep the playerbase distracted while you did whatever you pleased?

And to take it further, you eliminated yet more playstyles in this update!

Fire’s embrace is gone, out and out killing a playstyle, the ONLY playstyle that ever got any elementalist to use signets, the only one that ever felt even a little bit like an auramancer.

Elixir infused bombs is still gone, with absolutely nothing available anywhere that will ever get anyone to use bombs over grenades, I mean nobody expected to get it back exactly as it was, but getting something that will actually differentiate bombs from grenades other than one having superior range kinda’ seemed like a no brainer to most of us!

Coated Bullets is gone. This trait created amazingly fun gameplay with one of the classes most undervalued skillsets, and only needed a little love for the pistol skills or some decent synergy to make an incredibly interesting gunner build. But which now, instead, will never see the light of day.

I don’t know exactly how many other threads there were, but since almost nothing was changed from what you showed us a month ago, I think its safe to assume that pretty much any feedback was also completely ignored and those builds have also been removed without any consideration to the players.

its a huge mistake and glaring inconsistency if you dont give shelter a type, just nerf it and give it a type

please!

For each profession I could watch during the livestream, I thought to myself at one time atleast: “That is a cool mechanic or a cool combo”. For each profession except the Ranger.

Aren’t Rampage as One and Heal as One becoming a shout?
Isn’t Troll Unguent becoming a survival skill?

Condition Necromancer not only got absolutely no gain since the last preview, but even got nerfed. You give us more self-conditions without even improving our condition transfers.

You know that we can’t afford to change any of our utilities.

You nerf Plague Signet, Mark of Blood, Putrid Mark stays nerfed for no reason.

You haven’t touched our Life Force generation. You give us traits like Soul Comprahension which do absolutely nothing and are more useless than Reanimator trait.

You do absolutely nothing about skills like Feast of Corruption which are completly out of place and belong to different weaponsets.

You do absolutely nothing about Rending Claws, most useless auto attack in the universe.

You did absolutely nothing to increase our survivability vs. multiple since the last patch.

You did not increase our “attrition”.

You did not make Blood Magic any more appealing.

You did not give us any Combo Finishers.

You did not listen to Necromancer community, despite actions taken even by Gates Assasin (major props for trying)

You did not fix the Necromancer,

I don’t even…

And You want to release it, in this form, next week? Are you kidding me?

Ranger here, just an FYI, only one trait line offers condi removal. Both are Grandmaster traits(so we can only choose one) and one is RNG -if- the pet is alive and within 600 range.

If they stay in the one line, why would I ever take Poison Master?

Not trying to complain, just hoping you guys consider it.

Now Josh, please do as I instruct:
Step 1: Take all the Ranger changes
Step 2: Make sure you really got all of them
Step 3: Throw them into the bin
Step 4: Start from scratch, and this time, please visit the Ranger subforum from time to time

Sincerely, a former diehard fan of your game.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Lol at rangers and guards complaining… Two most OP classes in the game whining… classic…

Yet somehow Necros STILL get nerfed to the ground even though they were already 1000 tiers below ranger and guard.

On the plus side my ele went from OP to super extra OP… so I guess that’s a plus lol.

It’s not easymode enough for em,some guards actually have to roll their face over their keyboards twice or sometimes even three times,reducing this to one faceroll only makes sense.

Please help consume conditions. Its bleeding and making mother necro sad. please, stop the pain. stop the pain….

I don’t play Necro, but this use of the skill Looked Awesome (not allowed in GW2) and must have been Fun (actively discouraged).

Rangers will have the ability, with Quickdraw, to use 2 consecutive Swoops or Sword 2 leap chains, combined at any point with Lightning Reflexes for another leap and a CC counter as well.
Now, I’m not arguing that it’s top tier escape mobility, but if all of that isn’t enough, then the person is in an unwinnable situation or completely out of position to begin with and is very justly getting punished for not playing better.

@Sebrent;

While I do agree in the sense that nothing is certain until it’s certain, looking through all of the changes, I think we can readily predict what each individual classes meta-build will be, at least to the degree that we’ll be able to kitten the competition.
Eles: Arcane and Water will still be cookie cutter. The choice of the 3rd will depend on weapon choice, but the builds won’t ultimately play different than how the builds currently perform.
Guardians: Valor and Virtues with the optional 3rd, still mediguard. It’ll be a bit more potent, but it will still be the same build we’re used to seeing.
Mesmer: still Domination and Dueling shatters with an optional 3rd depending on weapon choice (chaos for staff, illusions for sword/torch, and of course always GS)
Necro: power will probably be spite, blood magic, and soul reaping. Condi will be Curses and Soul Reaping for certain, with an optional third.
Thief: Deadly Arts and Trickery with either Shadow Arts or Acrobatics, although an argument could be made for Critical Strikes, even though that sacrifices much needed condi-removal. Still backstab, although an gimmicky S/D build could arise, but either will play equivalently to currently.

Warrior and Engineer are where it gets interesting.
Warrior: Shoutbow will be stronger than ever utility wise, but loses some of its capabilities from the celestial nerf. However, it will have more utility potency with Tactics, Defense, and Discipline than ever. BUT, it gets more damage options from traits to the point where power/zerk warrior can make a real comeback with Strength, Defense, and Discipline. It could potentially return us to a double warrior meta.
Engineer: Engineer, on the other hand, has their options more spread out than previously and is the biggest wildcard imo. Firearms is almost a certainty regardless of the final build, but are engis going to go power or condi, is HGH coming back or are kit heavy builds here to stay. Really, engineers are the biggest variable right now.

The biggest unknown is team composition though. Is it going to be more damage oriented or more tanky oriented.

Regardless, Rangers definitely have a fighting chance this time around, really no matter where the meta settles.

It’s just that people here seem to think that this was supposed to be some huge, crazy, foundation of the game shaking balance patch, when all it’s ever been is a revamp to lay down the groundwork for the arrival of elite specializations with HoT, and THEN I think we’ll see some real shake-ups in the metagame.

I will openly admit though that I’m just speculating and providing and opinion lol. I mean, I remember laughing at spirit builds and then without any additional buffs or changes from that point, spirit builds shocked me and went on to become meta and the most despised build in competitive play lol, so anything can happen.

I 100% don’t see full trap builds getting any high end play though. I mean… Bonfire is STILL better than flame trap lol, and spike trap seems like the only one worth anything.

@anduriell.6280:
First, I’m not theorycrafting … I actually play … it’s why I knew things like Natural Regeneration healing the Ranger … as opposed to you who thought it only healed the pet like its tooltip says.

Second,

• Are they not also sources of cleansing? they are
• Is Healing Spring great for leaping through for extra healing? yes, it is
• Is Healing Spring great if you don’t have other sources of regeneration? yes, it is
• Do some builds get close enough to their target to benefit from brown bear? yes, some do
• Is your pet always dead and gone when you need SoR? no, it isn’t … especially if you manage it well

Now, if you or others are too inept to understand these things, that’s on you, not on the Ranger class.

Lastly, if you look at several current meta builds, some don’t take any condition removal … or very little. Why? Because the metas are also about teamwork and some builds rely on the other builds in their team’s comp to remove conditions from them. The 4/4/0/0/6 Mesmer Shatter Spec is an excellent example of this.

Again, if you don’t understand this, it’s on you … it’s not on the class.

Ranger can’t take a room temp IQ and raise it.

—Condition Cleanse
This has been mentioned several times. Rangers lack condition cleanse apart from traits. And both Condi cleansing options are in the same trait line and the same Grandmaster tier. That’s wrong and this needs to be addressed.
We either need more condi cleanse on our abilities/glued to other traits or we need Empathic Bond on a lower tier. It’s not worth the Grandmaster anyways.
~Consider adding condition removal to Invigorating Bond / Warhorn / Spirits and reconsider Empathic Bond with Wilderness Knowledge overlapping each other

—Survivability
Rangers are now in immense range of defensive options, tools, traits and utilities that have been addressed with nice precision. Good job on that one A-net. You really deserve a thumb up for these changes.

—Support Options
As the title says – we currently have the potential to keep 100% uptime of swiftness, regeneration and while in combat even Fury. We also provide unique 7% crit via Spotter.
But the question is… Is any of that a difference? Fury is provided by 3 other classes, swiftness is not really unique and we are not even best at applying it. Perma Regen sounds like the only thing that is unique and has potential for sPvP.
With the new spirits we lost our disruptive potential because you could activate the spirit 2 times. Casting the ability and on it’s death (and you can be sure it died fast). We lost our supportive nature (we can’t support anymore, we can only bunker a point and even that is nerfed because we lost the only reliable source of Rally – which was Elite Spirit dying).

Rangers need a defining way of supporting people, and if we get none – we at least need to be on the same level as other supporting classes in case we dedicate our whole build to it. We all know I’m talking about Eles and Engis here. They can support by speccing into offense.

Traits with wrong idea/value

• Moment of Clarity – this trait only works with Greatsword. It’s weak with other weapons including Longbow.
  ~Consider making this trait affect no auto-attacks but abilities only
• Strider’s Defense – this trait is not appealing. The abilities are used in times of need, not on cooldown. For PvE runs Spotter is still the answer which means this trait needs utility. 25% RNG deflect is just not worth and cooldown reduction is pointless. One of the biggest problems of the Sword is no gap closer. This is a wonderful place to hit the nail on the head.
  ~Consider giving 25% movement speed while wielding sword to it’s current functionality
• Light on Your Feet – the idea is good. The numbers are far below the grandmaster. It’s worth Adept at best. Consider increasing the duration to 7 seconds and ability to stack this effect (not per attack dodged but per dodge used) – than it’s going to be okay. We have high access to vigor and there are Sigils of Energy. But currently – the damage boost is a joke.
• Most Dangerous game – this trait is currently not worth a grandmaster. Under 50% health you are putting your life on the line and for this trait to work you need to stay below 50%. Enlargement is currently better this trait in functionality and value.
  ~Consider buffing this trait to add Ferocity in addition to Might every few seconds for better synergy with Remorseless
• Poison Master is not going to be picked. Ever. Reasons is that this is the only place for Condition Removal. And even the Poison Master got nerfed. This trait can be saved only if Rangers other issues are addressed.
• Invigorating Bond – explained in survivability. This trait has potential but needs more than 110 heal per second value. For a Grandmaster that is.
  ~Consider adding cleansing mechanic to it’s current functionality
• Honed Axes – I just don’t get why would anyone want Ferocity on this. No one’s ever going to focus on Direct Damage with Axes. And Ferocity is a Pure Zerk stat. The AoE part of the trait is fine.
  ~Consider changing Ferocity into Precision for synergy with other traits (bleeding & might for pet on crits)
  __________________________________________

I’d like to continue this thread with a calm and constructive manner to keep it as clear and easy to follow as possible. Any comments, ideas, shared proposals, intents or disagreements with my proposed changes are very welcome.

Let ArenaNet know they made a mistake but they still have plenty of ways to improve and fix their miscalculations. We, after all, are the ones who suffered through so many years of being inferior to other classes in positive attitude and objective views

Result of the changes

• Rangers are currently out of any competitive environment. We lack competitive PvP strengths.
• We have nothing to offer for WvW Zerg environment and we aren’t even best at roaming and we are weak at solo or scouting.
• Our class is still not the top tier in PvE.

• Every class should have a place in the current system, at least one. While Rangers didn’t have any single scene, there were classes that excelled in every single one (Eles, Warriors, Guardians). While other classes got buffed in every single scenario, we got nerfed at places we never were strong at.

Conclusion: If ranger as a class wants to hold more than 5% of GW2 population, changes need to be made. Currently as it goes – no one is going to appreciate the Ranger. Not even players who played the class for enjoyment.