Guild Wars 2

They are biased.

Phantaram.1265:

I’ve played necro here and there since release but I’ve played necro at least 6 hours both today and yesterday

This guy is totally and utterly clueless about our class, yet asks for “much needed nerfs”.
The fact alone that he posted a topic called “Constructive necromancer thoughts” in the spvp section of the game instead of the obvious necro section.

Sense, it makes none!

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Constructive-necromancer-thoughts/first

I would encourage people, not just PvPers to read that thread because as Dev Allie says in there they’re closely monitoring that thread.

Phantaram.1265:

TLDR; necromancers playstyle is cool with tankyness instead of disengaging but does too much damage on top of all their support and cc… and tankyness, come up with a way to reduce their damage in this thread. Or other tweaks you would like. Maybe necromancers are a little too tanky? They pretty much have everything but disengage right now so I’m open to any ideas.

The discussion in there is something that should be held on the Necromancer forums and not just in the sPvP subforum because unless Anet states that they will split PvE from PvP then expect further nerfs.

I encourage everyone to read through the posts there, especially the OPs initial post, I just quoted the TLDR above but apparently we’ve got it all, except a disengage.

No mention at all of the fact that DS just plain sucks for defense in PvE now, I know Bas and Nay ( I belive it was Nay) in another thread states why, I’ll edit that link in when I find it.

Edit: Here it is, Bas and Nays’ post in one.

Bas.7406:

Nay of the Ether.8913:

I never thought this day would come where I have to hang up my necromancer, but I think it’s now. They are going in the exact opposite direction from where our class needs to go. With this new DS obliteration, I have no need to play necro anymore. It’s a sad day for me and many other necros in this community too. My final straw was last night when I was asked to wait outside a boss fight because the group “didn’t want to spend the whole fight rezzing the necro” <—- exact wording. I don’t really blame them. I’ve tried using DS like I used to, and the difference is staggering. Either you go full LF or you don’t bother and just eat the dirt. I’m not arguing that the other nerfs were needed, I know they were. But this one baffles me beyond belief. Farewell necro, maybe we will meet again in the future when you get your cahones back.

This is what I was trying to explain to Bhawb and some of the pvp guys. This nerf to DS is massive for anyone who plays pve or wvwvw. It’s a nice change for tpvp where you face bunkers and condition spam, but in a boss fight where you 20k damage hits are dealt out more often then 10 seconds, you get destroyed now. I don’t know how many times I used DS because I had already dodged twice in 30 seconds which means with no block, invuln or way to disengage, ds was it. This new change essentially killed us on certain boss fights.

Bravo…kitten bravo!!!

TLDR; In other words, learn to kitten play.

P.S. and go to school, eff eff ess.

. . . con’t

Secondly, concerning your precious “meta,” it is high time for those of you who mistakenly believe that the game’s “meta” revolves around the builds you play and is dependent upon you playing the “meta builds” such that you may be competitive within the game to, perhaps, rethink your professional life choices and consider getting an education before attempting to advance your careers.

“Meta,” a prefix, such as in meta fiction, meta narrative, meta material, or meta physics, specifically connotes the correlation which goes beyond the context of the subject of analysis and the analyst, which is to say that "meta"_-whatever_ is a cognitive abstraction which (often corrosively) illustrates the disconnect between the actual “functioning” and the potential “functionality” of the subject of analysis.

As such, within the specificity of competitive online games, the “meta-game” is, by and large, the intangible portion of the game which combines you as a player with the world of the game, i.e. its “functionality.” This translates in to the breaks in the game which interrupt your ability to stay within the game world’s environment. Bugs such as being temporarily rooted after using Rocket Boots, of Stun Breaks being finicky around knockbacks and other sorts of CC, and other such disconnects are indicators of the “meta-game” because they (often painfully or frustratingly) reveal the necessity of “suspension of disbelief,” a cognitive activity we all undertake when viewing, reading, listening to, or interacting with, fictional media.

The mechanical system of gameplay and profession builds (dodging, blocking, jumping, evading, as well as bunkers, condis, roamers, etc, etc.) is nothing more than the syntax specified by the determining medium that ArenaNet has hand crafted in order to provide us with this game to play. In other words, what you mistakenly call the “meta” is really just the “MACROCOSM” of interaction within the medium, which is to say the interactions between the professions – i.e. “game balance.” Your chosen profession is the particular microcosm within which you form your perspective of the game, and is entirely independent of the “meta-game.”

This, furthermore, illustrates why the “top tier players” – while certainly having a more developed context of their place within the macrocosm – ARE NO BETTER EQUIPPED TO PROVIDE FEEDBACK THAN ANYONE ELSE WHO PLAYS THAT PROFESSION because each and everyone of us who plays this game and plays a particular profession is being provided with the same context at all times as everyone else who plays the game from which to form our perspectives. Pragmatically speaking, however, I hasten to acknowledge that top tier players have – simply through higher levels of exposure – more referent context from which to base their opinions upon and, perhaps, a better understanding of the syntax of the game systems.

This means that top tier players offer a perspective upon the game that no one else can, and are often able to actively engage with the actual “meta-game” because, like a professional chess player who can predict the development of the board, they are able to see not only the direct impact of balance changes but also the permutations of future game play based upon these changes. The role of top tier players is, whether you like it or not, solely to find breaks in the actual “meta-game” that might prevent another player from being able to “follow the syntax” and stay immersed within the medium.

So, I would kindly like to remind EVERYONE that EVERY SINGLE PERSON who plays this game is equally as qualified to offer advice, make suggestions, agree or disagree with anything done to the game’s syntax through patches, or what-have-you as the next person, noob and elitist kitten alike. The only person responsible for your enjoyment of the game is yourself, and the only person whom you have to blame for stagnation and suffrage is yourself. Thusly, and finally, that means it is your responsibility, especially as a “professional” gamer, to become familiar with the syntax of whatever professions you want so that you can better perceive (read) the medium of Guild Wars 2.

- nak

Most amusing is how all this started
>Ele posts vid, bawing how DS ate his burst.
>DS dmg overflow implemented, but fixed bug causing increased dmg.
>further Bawing over Dhuumfire and DS still.
>Perma Evade/Stealth still exists.
> Talks underway about nerfing DS

my sides are in orbit.

Unbiased as an ele main who hates full water can be about condition classes.

Amazing of how many people fail at reading and compehension even after op takes the time to reiterate what he is referring to.

To the op I would suggest to send this to the bug section if what you stated is true.

VOLKON.1290:

Yes, of course, because Mist Form has an infinite range and restored the elementalist to a living state with full health, right?

It’s fairly short ranged and when they come out of it they’re still downed. Finish the job, it’s that simple. In the rare cases when you choose to down them right outside a gate and they get inside, well, the trick is to down them further from the gate or tear the gate down and rip them a new one when you get inside. I’ve had my share of elementalists zip through a gate on my and I’ve yet to notice a tear forming. They do what they do, learn to counter.

Please, read the post before you reply. I’m not complaining about how to “counter” Vapor Form, because there is no counter to it in this context. This is about WXP, not how to kill a downed elementalist.

Reading comprehension is evidently not a strong point for some…

What the OP is saying is when you down an elementalist, and they use their mist form downed ability, even if you stomp them a few seconds later, you get 0 Wxp.

I have not noticed this myself, but I don’t really pay attention to Wxp in most fights. It sounds like it could be a general bug though, that Wxp is reset on rally, instead of resetting on defeat. It should only reset once Wxp has been awarded, which is when the player dies.

Konig, I support most things you say, but this is borderline trollbait.

Are you blind? Of all people for this to come from I’m almost shocked.

The odds are HEAVILY in Kiel’s favour. Let me roll over a few things.

1. Waypoints: Kiel offers cheaper waypoints. This is something every player uses. This is something that your casual player (and keep in mind the primary player base is casual) will want.
2. Kiel as a character: Kiel is your typical good character. The players know her well, they’ve seen her a lot recently, she’s got Magnus behind her (another likeable character), she is portrayed as the ‘good guy’ of the situation. This is something the majority of players will associate with
3. Evon as a character: He’s generally seen as your typical villain and with that comes the natural desire for him to lose. He’s portrayed as having ‘bad morales’ and such. Most people will be hesitant to vote for him on this basis.
4. Thaumanova: Be honest with yourself. How much of the player base is actual GW1 vets that care about the lore to a mild extent? Maybe 10% Most of them don’t know, or don’t care, who Abaddon on. Thaumanova is your obvious go-to choice as they know it, it’s in game and they understand it.
5. Fractals: Do you understand that the player base for fractals is ridiculously small? At least at high levels, which are the players who actually care about it. The majority of players I encounter in-game (and I encounter a lot) don’t do fractals, don’t like fractals or simply don’t care.

Your argument is poor at best and I’m pretty sure you know it. Hell, the two cut-scenes we have of Evon set him out as a Villain. Objectively Kiel has a major upper hand and you know it. You are blatantly disregarding all facts and not taking into account who the actual player base is. They aren’t the seasoned Guild Wars 1 veterans who care enough about the lore to want to know more about the parentage of the Gods, where humanity came from, the origins of the Charr, what exactly the Great Dwarf is or even the contents of the Tome of Rubicon. The majority see:

Familiar character who is reducing waypoints. Thaumanova is something I understand. I guess I’ll vote for her.

Take the player-base into consideration. I honestly expect better from someone as invested into this universe as you.

I will personally voting for Evon as I’m someone who does high level fractals (48+) on a regular basis and believe the Fall of Abaddon will be a far, far more interesting and fun fractal, both mechanically and lore-wise. Though I understand the background of Thaumanova and it’s importance to the lore.

Edit: I took a look at the post time. To an extent I can see your perspective, but when you get in game you’ll understand what I mean. Enter the Candidate Trials. Kiel’s and Evon’s are as different as day and night with Kiel being the ‘good guy’ and Evon the ‘bad guy’. There’s quite a lot that, once you see the update, shows how much of an advantage Kiel is given. She’s literally been handed a free win with the way they’ve written this. Hell, your character sides with Kiel. Do the ‘story’ scene and then talk to her. She constantly uses ‘we’ and ‘us’ and the continue dialogue is more along the lines of siding with her. Evon’s is more of a “mmk dunno you. Talk to ya later m8’

I will however agree that they’re on unfair playing ground. The bonuses need to be in-game things. If it was say, reduction of the trading post tax, that would put it on a better playing field.

i’m still voting for Kiel
with a picture like this:

how can you not vote for her

Seezungenschleuder.8319:

If you really are necromancers, show some dignity. Some minor nerf here and there, but buffs also. Could have been worse.

This:

• Damage taken while in death shroud will now overflow to the necromancer’s health pool if the damage taken is greater than the remaining life force.

Is NOT a minor nerf. not in the slightest. It means our supposed “class mechanic”, our only defense against burst and excessive CC, is now pointless. I just want to congratulate all those classes that cried and boo-hood enough to get this accomplished. Bravo. You win.

A month? Dude they’re probably still working on the same stuff they were working on when you left.

I’m worried about my necro after all these posts. While i think we lost a lot of damage reduction after fixing the DS bug and escape options, people actually complain necro survivability is op.

In this video, you are just unhappy coz you couldn’t deal 15k damage at that necro. A class that can’t outmanouver with teleports stability options or other stuff is supposed to have this kind of damage mitigation. Every class must have a way of dealing with these spikes, otherwise necros would be nothing more than target practice for your precious spiking eles. It is that ele’s fault to use his spike during spectral armor buff. Having that mitigation 6/66 of times is not opness, its survivability option.

Learn to watch your opponent, don’t attack it when it pops spectral armor and please stop whining about it. Spectral armor is a 60 sec cd skill, every skill as useful as it is, also has weaknesses.

While i believe terror damage was a bit op for spvp, i think our damage is better scaled now as well with the terror nerf.

As a necro i grew tired of reading posts that complain about necro that, necro this. Necro finally feels like a decent class compared to what it was, a competitive class.

Please, learn to adapt.

hackks.3687:

Two things:

1 – thanks for the video proof that Ele’s instant cast burst is indeed in much need of a nerf, a la added cast/flight times (though I wouldn’t rule out deletion; see 100nades)

2 – that poor Necro had to use two skills to accomplish what every other class can do with a single skill

also, I’m not sure how telling your friend to hold up their shield so you can run into it face first as fast as you can constitutes as a “test”…

It’s not in all reality. It’s a joke of a test, but according to the tpvp “elite” whatever “test” they run is considered factual evidence. Therefore you are I are not worthy to point out the complete ridiculous of the test.

Not to mention that with the build including soul marks you only have 10 sec cd death shroud so you can force a DS early and as soon as he comes out spike him during the 10 sec window.

But nope, apparently having a spike absorption every 10 seconds on a class with no vigor or stability or teleports or stealth is too much.

Guess it becomes a major issue when the stars align and something isn’t instagibbed by an otherwise nearly guaranteed instagib combo.
Clearly, that distinct blue icon coupled with a big black cloud are just screaming ‘spike me’. Much like you’d unload a spike on a mesmer popping a 4s distortion, right?
I guess baiting out cooldowns is overrated, and so is actually paying attention to opponent’s buffs, because staged fights are a good indication of how OP something is.
For credibility’s sake, at least let the video be a clip from a real tpvp match next time, ok?
You know, something like this:

Besides, when one actually SHOULD pull off the sarmor+DS combo is when fighting outnumbered. Why would you use it against a single target, when you could just as well DS3 them (granted there is no stability involved).

Just asking, because we can’t really reason with someone who is raging against necro just because one build is over the top (and at some point, maybe it’s the conditions damage the real culprit and not it’s application, I see so many Burning/bleeding hybrid warriors now it’s not funny).

What makes other classes weapons skills/utilities less OP than our (only) capability to absorb damage in DS? Mesmer have 2-3 sec invuln on a 9,5/12 sec cooldown, can evade a lot more than us, have access to block, and don’t need to build up another ressource to use it (clones are way easier to manage).

Engi can block for 3-4 sec, same for guardians and warrior, and thief could evade all that combo with only SB#3. Rangers are evade master too now. This “burst” from ele must be timed well to be effective, against all classes.

Most of these classes dont even need to put utilities for their survivability, only weapons skills could negate that burst.

We need to grab weapons that gives us lifeforce, use a 60 sec cooldown utility and eat damage. If you would just wait for the buff to wear down (6 sec), you wouldnt give any lifeforce to the necro and just roll him afterward. You see him go in DS, just go away, come back after he returned to normal and you have a full 10 sec to burst him, and that’s if he got any Lifeforce left.

They put Spectral Armor as a deterrent to been trained, and while it’s not working against a team, it’s sure do it’s job against 1 player dumb enough to continue attacking throught it. Just remember that’s is a long cooldown, too long for a prolonged fight, and you’ll be winning every fight against them.

Tested a Life Force bunker in tPvP due to this, using Spectral Armor, high Vitality, and high toughness.

Facetanked 4 people for 20 seconds with Deathshroud. Died instantaneously upon exiting Deathshroud with 2,300 Armor, and 26,000 HP.

A good bunker it does not make, and in order to get all that Deathshroud survivability, I had to sacrifice all of my damage.

Just wanted to create a thread giving Allie a shout out for her activities on this forum. We really love transparency from the devs and are really grateful that Allie’s been writing out some great answers for us recently.

For the sake of Allie’s unfinished lunch (due to writing essays on forums) we’d love to see other devs get involved and help her out.

Thanks again!

Benkei.6293:

getting kickd from party cause, i didnt know how to exploit pass dredge. after beating already 2 fractal levels. why does this game allow party kicking like this.

Usually people respond like this “if you trusted them to join their party then you should be aware they can kick you if they want”

but its a easy to counter falasy with “if they trusted you to let you join then you should have no right to kick them or next time don´t let them in”

Print screen and send ANet.
Exploiting is still a bannable offense. Maybe that way the elitist kittens would learn to stop being jerks!

/cheers

Allie Murdock.8152:

I’m curious, because it’s easy to say “I want, I want” without saying why.

Well, you do the same with nerfing. So when you expect players to explain in detail why they want something you should do them the same favor and explain why you nerf things into oblivion.

Oblivion.8307:

don’t worry guys, necro still broken op.

necros are nerfed because ppl like you.

Dev: “necros want to nerf themselves?, yeah they should be nerfed then”

This is some serious spvp right here:
http://shrani.si/f/2t/YP/1T3De0H/srs.jpg

Some high skill cap stuff here. Let’s all let AI play out our matches shall we? Mind you, there are no mesmer illusions on this screenshot, and I don’t know what happened to Ranger’s spirits. They might have just died of by my super professional grenade spam. I totally covered that cap point with grenades. Didn’t care what was on that point, didn’t look, wasn’t important, I just thought to myself: “Whatever’s on that point is gonna kittening DIE DUDE!”. Maybe I even killed an enemy Warrior trying to pull a skill off or something. Maybe that warrior was even just passing by, that poor dude. Doesn’t matter, eat my grenade and don’t touch my cap points! Those cap points are mine. I’ve got AoE, you don’t.

I have to admit I rarely create topics, but the patch notes made me say whats on my mind. To note, I have been playing necromancer as my main class since BW1 and it was always the only class I used in tournaments and my main spec was and still is a fear necro with stability (0/20/20/0/30).

So lets face it before the previous patch that added burning and torment necromancers were not the first pick in the comp pvp setup, used mostly as rez signet carriers with wells. Was the burning OP? Well adding burning to necromancer in my opinion was unnecessary, because they already gave us torment to cover our main dmg from condition bleed. Did it make the necromancer OP, I would still say no, necro stacking was what made it over the top imho.

Necromancer, as anet said, is an attrition class and it was made to outlast opponent. Yet the reality is different – necromancer lacks stability, regeneration and all the other boons that make a class truly an attrition one. Devs told us that DS is there to compensate these lacks, because it is like a third weapon set, since previous to the nerf you could swap weapons in it, and it has its own HP bar, so you can outlast someone a bit longer. So overall necromancers did not need a buff in damage it needed it in mobility, boon generating, etc.

After the mistake of adding unnecessary fire to necromancer devs instead of doing something with it started changing everything else, so now you would have to run this spec. For example:
- They added a CD to LF generation that was not that easy without the nerf especially at the beginning of the match
- Removed DS protecting our hp from big hits, so now class mechanic is just laughable since it no longer soaks up dmg and no longer allows for weapon swap which was its main purpose.
- Pushed the greater marks further into a tree, thus making builds even more generic.

It looks like devs are thinking that now everyone is running one spec so nerfing it would make necromancer more “balanced”. Well its not true, because not everyone likes to run a generic build that is fotm, but maybe its their idea to force players in pvp to use only 1 build per class, thus making it as easy to balance as possible…

P.S. I have to mention this: I feel sorry for a player named Nemesis, too bad your suggestions fell on deaf ears and blind eyes of anet devs.

TL; DR; IMO anet balancing team: