The change was needed and a step in the right direction. Blind was too easily negated before, there is no reason you should be able to auto off blinds while out of range of anything. Blinds were making little to no impace against good players.
On that note, this change has brought most blinds over the top. They are just too good now, and counter several builds/classes far harder than other. The change should 100% stay, but blind skills need to be re-evaluated. In particular ele’s blinding flash and thieves black poweder. I would say b-flash’s CD needs to be brought up and black poweder should only tick every 2 seconds or maybe a 1 second less duration.
35 degrees celsius today here lads. Hot. Humid. I think I’ll cooldown with some mesmer tears. Thank you for thus thread.
Presumably you reference Into the Void.
You ignore latency sir. That is why the pull got nerfed, and justly so.
Focus will still see heavy use. The utility is simply too good to not use in some builds.
Don’t be a drama queen.
No doubt this opened up more builds but I felt a little let down based on my playstyle/builds getting any real attention.
-Many Blood majors are still terrible- I’m looking at you Deathly Invigoration and Transfusion… and the Lifesteal buffs (which we are thankful for) still leaves it largely laughable. The ability to viably structure a build around lifesteal still doesn’t exist. I’ll be keeping my Soldier gear on for now, in anticipation of swapping to Clerics if it gets buffed to a reasonable level.
-It’s been said before, but why were there no real changes to Death Magic? Staff traits absolutely need consolidation. Minion minors make zero sense in a traitline (theoretically) supporting non-minion builds. Dark Armor as 10pt minor. Reanimator buffed & moved to 20pt minor (still can be useful to non-minion builds). Protection of the Horde made a major (as it absolutely should be as this is entirely dependent on having minions slotted) and add some completely new major to fill the gap for the consolidated Staff majors.
-I still don’t see any noticeable differentiation between mh dagger and axe. They function rather similarly with axe simply giving up damage for range… but aside from that if you really look at them they are incredibly similar. I really don’t care what direction these are taken in, but anything to differentiate them would be welcome.
-Dhuumfire is all the rage. I get why its popular, but I was really hoping for something more Spite appropriate… along the lines of “Oppression: Apply Vulnerability when applying Chill, Fear, or Immobilize. You deal 10% more damage to enemies with 10 or more stacks of Vulnerability.” Or really anything that meshes well with condition duration, keeping enemies controlled, etc. Dhuumfire just seems like a consolation prize for 30/30/x/x/x type builds rather than contributing anything unique or playstyle defining.
Anywho. Just my thoughts from the perspective of a tanky/power player. Not a bad patch, but I didn’t get a whole lot of mileage from it outside of the well buff for dungeons.
(edited by Draehl.2681)
No, not OP, just at the same level Wars/Guards/Mes/Thieves.
The BIG difference is: Wars/Guards/Mes/Thieves has been in the top tier for to long, they become the noobs choice. So when they are unable to kill a necro, they intermediately start raging about it.
And as many people already say, we had to work harder and learn our profession better to survive so any boost in our hands, is OP in other’s eyes.
Now they have to learn something beyond the same no-brain-1-skill build they probably use all the time and of course, is easy to whine about necros being OP.
-ArenaNet
necros are op yes, many people are just in denial.
Your claim is not very believable without any evidence proving they are op, which makes this just a troll post
I don’t understand this whole blind thing. Before the patch everyone could auto-attack the air and clear the blind? Then such a change was needed, just how, a few months back, blind wouldn’t negate basilisk venom until that was fixed aswell.
Condition removal.
I think it is a good change, it made blind kinda useless. Now you’ll have to use your autattack to clear it while in melee range of something, seems fine to me.
Yolo queue FTW [YOLO] – Desolation (EU)
Champion Magus, Genius
So I just participated in a tournament as a warrior against 3 warriors, 3 thieves, 2 engineers and a guardian and while the scores aren’t public yet, I can say that I’m proud to walk away with 6 wins, 2 losses and 1 draw. These duels were to the stomp to assure that everything about them was legitimate and stomp mechanics came into play. 3 of my wins were warriors, 2 thieves, and 1 engineer, and my draw against a bunker guardian. My losses were an engineer and a thief. You may think, “They must have sucked to lose to a warrior”, but honestly you weren’t there. You don’t know how the fights played out and can make every assumption you want.
My point is, warriors aren’t imbalanced and people need to see that. Get up off your kitten and stop playing full DPS where you’re squishy as hell, grab some healing power for your shout heals and start kicking some serious kitten . Warriors deal amazing condition damage. Use it. We deal amazing DPS. Stop using the most you can get and run some PVT trinkets. You say that we can’t give ourselves protection, stability, aegis, retal and those other boons that guardians get? Run 30 in tactics and grab some lyssa runes and enjoy your 20% uptime of every boon.
People need to learn to build their warriors to counter other classes, not build for the biggest numbers. It’s known as Build Wars 2 for a reason, yet people seem to think that one build will fit all. I can tell you that in this tournament that I participated in I swapped my build 3 times based on who I was fighting to counter what I thought they’d be running. Yes, builds are expensive, but you’re warriors. Run some CoF if you have no money, you’re in high demand.I hope that somebody takes something out of this post because I’m far too tired to keep defending my class after proving its worth time and time again. It’s amazing how many people whisper me and tell me that I’m the first warrior to beat them. I can’t be the only one who’s smart enough to play the class effectively, can I? Please. I beg of you all. Look at what we’ve turned into as a community and the general attitude toward warriors in PvP/WPvP and go against the grain. Make your own builds.
That’s all I’ve got. Good night.
EDIT: If you haven’t noticed Torment yet, it’s probably because you haven’t noticed how lackluster of a condition it is. It does next to nothing, even when your condition damage is maxed.
btw the wvwvw forum is that way —→ https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv
Don’t listen to me tho I only have ~50 games played on warr but I do enjoy stomping those Champion Illusionists and Paragons in 1v1’s.
The reason why warriors are receiving balance changes so slowly is because of how good they are at killing morons. People hop into hot join and kill a few idiot players and then think they are gods among babies.
The fact is that a newbie player is not very different from a brainless, PvE NPC. Warriors are great at killing NPCs. So, when players perform equally or even less than an NPC, suddenly Warriors appear extremely powerful. Devs see this and become hesitant to balance warriors out. It is unbelievably sad.
In beta, all players sucked big time. Everyone, everyone was god awful. NPCs were better than players at this time. In beta, everybody was brain dead. Not surprisingly, warriors reigned supreme during beta. Devs’ perspective on warriors was horribly distorted by beta, and now the warrior class suffers from neglect and unwillingness to be balanced. It is depressing.
(edited by zone.1073)
Blurred Frenzy utterly warps the Mesmer into another realm of Risk vs Reward all by itself.
A 2s melee cleaving attack that does decent damage and includes 2s of Invulnerability on an 8-10s cool down…
Which is why I believe it needs to be changed to 2s of Protection, so that there is some Risk vs Reward built into this awesome damage combo skill, like every other Profession has some Risk vs Reward when trying to burst, especially in melee with all the cleave and general AoE in this game.
The Mesmer currently avoids all of this, Blurred Frenzy for an Invulnerable damage combo. Then use Phase Retreat or Blink to get away straight after…
(The 1 time of 10 that everything isn’t dead afterwards).
Recently I read that in Wildstar they use mob to balance classes. They created mob called Bob. Average player should be able to kill Bob in 30 sec. If ability is too powerful for Bob it will be too powerful in pvp and pve.
I think Warrior is Guild Wars 2 Bob. They balanced classes aroudn him.
I wonder if they give us more sustain or just nerf damage and send mail "pleas reroll guardian, balance is done, we are going to delate our Bob" :P
Warrior used to be their measuring stick, back in the times of closed betas and pre-order beta weekends. Most players were absolutely horrible, and Warrior’s straight-forward nature allowed them to play him relatively well in entry-level skill environment compared to say, Mesmer or Elementalist.
Another matter worth pointing out: Warrior was mostly fleshed out and developed, whereas others lagged behind in the developer’s drawing board, even in their base profession functionality. There was no mature meta to speak of either, Glass Elementalists running all sorts of garbage builds instead of the "invincible" bunker spec were easy pickings for Eviscerates or Frenzy’ed 100Blades.
What they’ve done to alleviate this perceived power disparity between Warriors and non-Warriors? They’ve introduced power creep independent of player skill to professions newer in the development cycle or perceived to be difficult to pick up (most notably: Thief, Mesmer, Elementalist). Chief examples? Invincible boon spammers with AoE damage, early Thief builds, Mesmer profession itself.
Conclusion
They simultaneously nerfed Warrior and buffed/reworked other classes, while giving Warrior little to no attention for a very long period of time after game’s release. They also left Warrior in the gutter of old (and presumably better) balance philosophy: 1) difficult trade-offs between damage, support and control 2) skill-based profession performance. Warrior’s greatest anti-thesis? Mesmer. Close runners-up? Thief and Elementalist with respective meta builds - professions almost play by themselves, even if skill disparity between individual players is still evident.
Been meaning to start a similar thread, but never had the patience, audacity and reputation to follow this through. Thanks for voicing what we already feel and know deep in our Warrior hearts, and signing your name all over it.
I’m not led to believe Warrior will ever be consider equal to the others, not until we get a dedicated blog post to Warrior alone, and acknowledgement of Brawn.
This is just one indepth example. I shouldn’t even have to be so elaborate to point out the comparisons between warr and other classes. An ele’s healing and survivability? A thief’s peeling, gap closing, similar burst damage, and boon hate? A ranger’s dodge rate, regeneration, pet burst? A guardian’s blocking and invulnerability? A mesmer’s 20% minimum invulnerability uptime? And engie’s sustained aoe damage, control and ability to consistantly res himself?
What does warr have to compensate for an utter lack of those things? More healthpool? Slightly higher base defense? Being a meatshield does not make up for the sheer amount of damage, control, and conditions mitigated by simply being able to dodge twice as much. This leads up to my next point…
- Developer Hesitance
This refers to their “Slow and Steady” philosophy, as well as all the (wrong) feedback they receive making them afraid to do changes. The developers are afraid to overhaul mechanics, they are afraid to shake up the meta. Is a warr’s survivability going to be at a viable level by addding a few condition cleanses? No! Not untill Every class has it’s mechanics brought in-line with warrior’s (invulns, risk-reward ratios, get out of jail free cards) or the warrior’s brought up to theirs, will it be viable. But despite all the evident flaws I can list out when comparing warr mechanics(cough Brawn cough), this isn’t the thread for that.
And that’s why Warriors will never be viable unless Arenanet stops being so timid with their changes.
Preface: I am by no means claiming this as fact. These are just the opinions of an (almost exclusively) Warrior main who spends most of his time in PvP. I am by no means a top player, but I do have a lot of experience regarding this class.
TL;DR, NOT EVEN THAT ACCURATE OF A REPRESENTATION EDITION:
Unless you've actually played it a LOT, nobody knows what's really wrong with warr; Other classes have amazingly bull mechanics when it comes to risk-reward; developers too timid to make any significant changes to warr, and when they do give small buffs, they feel the need to buff other classes, keeping Warrior at the bottom of the pile.
- Misinformation
What do you take away from a fight with a Warrior? Most probably something along the lines of: “He did a lot of damage.” “Wow, he died fast.”
This lack of understanding of how Warrior works, from a perspective of other classes, leads to the main topic, misinformation. What makes a warrior tick? Why do they die so easily? You don’t know, because 8 out of 10 times you’re going to easily defeat a warr on any other class. It wasn’t even challenging or engaging! This problem is only made worse by how over time less and less decently skilled players run warr, even in hotjoins, so the ones you DO run across are terrible.
And thus, this leads to the spreading of misinformation. “Warriors are just a step away from becoming an unstoppable beast!” “Warrior’s only problem is condition cleansing.” “Warriors do so much more damage than other classes.” “Warriors are perfectly viable, you just need to babysit them!” “Warrior’s condition removal is fine as it is, you just need to run traited warhorn, 3 shouts, and soldier runes!”
- Relativity
Some people claim that warr is the “most balanced profession”. This is true! If you were looking at warr in a vacuum. High risk, high reward design? Check. Tells and animations you can react to and skillfully dodge? Check. Substantial loss in damage if you spec for survivability and vice versa? Check.
But what happens when you compare warr to other classes? You realize that the other classes don’t remotely follow this “balance philosophy”. Take Mesmer for example.
A GC warr’s most infamous burst combo would be to:
1) Pressure the opponent and bait out all their dodge rolls
2) Frenzy(Utility) to speed up 100b
3) Bull’s Rush(Utility) to controls the opponent and a gap closer
4) Endure Pain(Utility) if this was a teamfight to prevent melting due to Frenzy’s increased damage side effect
5) 100 blades (weapon skill) for frontal arc cleave burst damage
6)Whirlwind (weapon skill) for AoE medium damage
Now look at a GC mes’s most infamous burst combo:
1) iDuelist for a ranged volley, high damage, bleeds (weapon skill)
2) Dodgeroll for a clone
3) iLeap for another clone (weapon skill)
4) (Optional) Magical Bullet for a daze (weapon skill)
5) Swap for an immob and gap closer(weapon skill)
6) Shatter for AoE burst damage(Class Mechanic)
7) Blurred Frenzy for frontal arc medium damage(weapon skill)
Immediately there’s already something appallingly wrong with this comparison. Almost everything required for the Mesmer burst combo is built into the class on low cooldown weaponskills. Not only does their combo leave them free to choose whatever utilities they wanted, but what should be the most high-risk portion of their combo that roots them on the spot leaves them invulnerable 2 seconds. Both combos take approximate the same amount of time to execute, why is one practically cost and risk free?
(edited by Jzaku.9765)
“I understand that phant mesmers were on the OP side in 1v1,”
then a nerf was required, don’t argue with that
That darn terror move without making greater marks baseline or merging it with staff mastery in the 10 tier……. such an annoyance.
The point is it stun breaks, then gives stability long enough to cast the skill. Stun breaks are usually instant cast, so they put the 1s of stab to get round that.
Those sneaky Mesmers in the WvW Instantly dumping Curtain → Void to pull the Wall defenders down…
… if they HAVENT fixed temporal curtain’s speed stacking , then i’m rly disappointed that they would go through lengths to add a “fix” that no one requested over a HUGE known problem in the same skill…
^this
If this is for PVE, no big deal. If for sPVP, it’s to give player time to dodge, whatnot. Without the 1s recharge mesmer can interupt/control players almost instantaneously.
Content Marketing Manager
LIVING WORLD
Open World:
- Fixed a bug that prevented the skritt Kasparak, one of the effigy ceremony suspects, from appearing in Gendarran Fields.
Aetherblade Retreat Dungeon:
- Fixed various pathing bugs in both boss fight areas, Kleptotronic Advanced Designs and Rogue’s Landing
- Added an exit to the beginning of the dungeon that leads directly back to Lion’s Arch.
BALANCE, BUG-FIXING, POLISH
General:
- Fire Field Blast Finisher: Fixed an issue that caused this finisher to grant double the might.
- Fixed a bug with the recharge tooltip of profession skills which were being modified by trait lines. Thief Steal (Trickery), Warrior Burst Skills (Discipline), Elemental Attunements (Arcana), Mesmer Shatters (Illusions), Engineer Toolbelt Skills (Tools), and Guardian Virtues (Virtues)
Necromancer:
- Path of Midnight: This trait now properly reduces the recharge of Tainted Shackles.
- Necromancer downed health is now the correct amount in all formats on all characters.
Warrior:
- Triple Chop: This ability now deals the correct damage on the third strike.
- Fixed a bug with the display of the Warrior Discipline trait line tooltip.
Maybe if they had appropriate accommodations for charrs
That is the case for me as well.
I like the Medium and Heavy armor sets, but the heavy set doesn’t fit my Guardian’s color scheme and general theme very well and both of my Medium armor classes are Charr. Charr would actually work really well with the armor theme, but the tail issue really kills it.
BIG PROBLEM…
They are ugly and most players wouldn’t be seen dead in them!
Plus Anet not my favourite games developer atm…
If you look at it there’s nothing really that strong to nerf right now. I’ve come to this conclusion after seeing how thieves continue to spam evades and stealth and like it took 5 people to focus down an engineer while he kited us around half the map and was immune to conditions kind of. Other stuff has been ridiculous in this game for a long time and will still continue to be, our core problems aren’t really solved, the slow cast times for example is still annoying against dodge spammers.
The logic is baffling to me. Corrupt Boon is subject to some kind of hidden game laws such that it’s a total crap-shoot if it’s going to work. It seems like it only works if you are directly facing your target on completely level ground and your opponent doesn’t do anything odd like jump, run up a hill or sneeze.
It’s so inconsistent that, as much as I’d like to use it, I can’t rely on it. I only equip it for a lark.
Furthermore, it makes no sense that a utility that transforms all boons into conditions on a 40 second cooldown is considered overpowered, while a 6-piece rune bonus on a cooldown as low as 45 seconds allows a player to remove all conditions AND give all boons.
in con sis tent
You guys are missing the point…
Necromancers were easy pray for such a long time, now that we are equal no one knows how to fight us.
At the same time… because we had to fight harder for every victory we obtained, every single one of you necromancers has a higher skill level then their “equal” adversary…
We had to be more skilled then our opponents just to be able to stand our ground… We had to use skill to not get killed by a heart seeking spamming thief… or a faceroll bunker elementalist, or a “i do my combo you die” shatter mesmer…
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