Guild Wars 2

Terror hasn’t changed. Its always done the same damage it has now since forever. Necros were considered weak and not viable before. Then ANet adds burning (nothing else changed, torment is frankly useless and has next to no up time to matter) and suddenly necromancers need to be nerfed, starting with terror? kitten? Doesn’t even make any sense.

Andele.1306:

Petty sure the strongest spam boons (protection – down to 25%/10%, aegis*blocking in general* – only blocks damage not actual skill effects, vigor – down to 75%, Might – 25 at 80) will be nerfed in some time soon, so no worries.

Boons need to be less accessible rather than having their effects nerfed; at the very least vigor and protection. Might can be changed around to be less accessible to classes that spam it coughcoughengicough.

It would be a much better change than just making them completely pointless. Rather than making them useless or negligible, they would need to be used strategically and not spammed. I’m not sure if they would even be useful then, though, honestly. Not like Necro’s would ever know the difference, anyway.

ronpierce.2760:

I was looking at that the other day. After a bit of number crunching i decided even though the main effect 1 shots people, the scaling on the additional damage while collecting tears is almost non existent so your build is heavilily flawed and your comments are useless and moot. No one would even take that ability in competitive play.

Due to my own sense of self-importance and feeling of superiority to you I will now ignore anything you ever say from now on, insult you a few times, and repeat my name for good measure. L2p nub. You are a garbage player and probably a brony. BrykerBrykerBryker.

Edit: I forgot to say viable atleast once. Viable.

Yeh, +Heal Power on every pice of gear get’s you a massive 6 heals per hit.

As long as you also trait Bloodthirst + Vampiric Precision, and have 100% crit chance, you almost do exactly half of a Ele using Signet of Restoration, with 0 heal power.
(As long as your not in DeathShroud)

Link to 37 minute video going into tedious detail over a common sense build that almost everyone figured out for themselves when they were level 30, using traits and utilities that are obviously meant to be used together.

Dietzen.6127:

That build seems good, can you pick every trait as well?

Top secret right now, ill be discussing the build and many more builds designed solely designed by me with all builds looking remotely similar being referred to as “this is similar to my xx build” in my upcoming thread " Ascii’s Magnificent Mighty Metas of the Ages, Forever."

Pyriall.5027:

Azreell.1568:

“Conditions actually hurt now and I can’t ignore them.”

“What am I to do!?!?!?!?!?!”

These forums never cease to amaze me.

Conditions always have hurt. The issue is the over saturation, by profession, of conditions.

Prior the issue was the over saturation of cleanses.

Pot meet kettle.

I am not in total disagreement with you – but I truly do not see Anet reworking their entire dot system.

They will always take the path of least resistance instead.

“Conditions actually hurt now and I can’t ignore them.”

“What am I to do!?!?!?!?!?!”

These forums never cease to amaze me.

Silv.9207:

Yesterday, kitten my friends, in Tspvp, we’ve find a team of rank 15-25 players. 4 Necro and 1 Ranger. We’ve a team well organized. 2 Guardian, Mesmer, Engi, Thief. I’m rank 25, but my friend’s rank 40-45, not the first noob on the square.
Then, we’ve lost 500 to 140. How can you fight an enemy that need only to give you all the condition in one skill and flee waiting your death? We’ve removal, yes, but try to fight 2 necro that swap conditions to the entire group and give conditions all the way. And now they can give Torment and Burn.
i’m a Guardna Berserker, I can kill by myself mesmers, warriors, thief, guardian, ele and some engi spec. before the update i’ve been able to kill some necros but now I’m useless against a Necro. Too much conditions. Too low healt.
You can say “you’re berserker, you’ve not healt”. Yeah, and because of that I’ve try to use another spec: removal spec. I’ve equipped 2 shout, puruty and set the virtue that cure 3 conditions. Well, It’s useless. They win. You can’t fight a necro using a guardian. You can’t fight a Condition spec by using a Guardian.

The necro use it’s signet to give me all the conditions. I use Purity, they use the skill to transform all boon in condition. I use all my skills to cancel the Conditions. I’m whitout utility and virtue, and the enemy can give me more and more conditions by weapon skills and the 3° not used utility or the elite. Or use fear and kill me whit damage of 2k every hit.

now.. how can I defeat a Necro??

Yet it never seems to strike people as a problem when EVERY competitive team runs a Guard and a Mesmer, seriously if that doesn’t say the meta needed shaking up then nothing will.

+1 to this (random stuff to hit char limit here)

Obligatory fifteen character plus post stating that indeed, I agree with the OP’s well-stated post.

Nikkinella.8254:

I don’t know why a Moa would have an axe or a helmet, but they do sometimes.

Well, when the wolves have swords, the birds need the extra defense.

As ColinJohanson said, “with [the] new WvW rank reward chests you’re going to be getting a lot more Ecto!” Oh wait…

The best fix would be for our Axe to do a cleave damage.

Punked.8263:

vicious.5683:

Punked.8263:

vicious.5683:

Lordrosicky.5813:

But all I am saying it is a lot easier to contribute in solo q since the patch. Too easy perhaps.

It’s easier ’cause necros were under par.
Now necros can contribute as effectively as other classes like mesmers, guardians and eles, thieves, etc.

Necros now can (not in a single build):
-put as much condi pressure as engies.
-burst as much fast as thieves with same survivability
-do as much AoE damage as mesmers

Necros have better Fears than anyone else, but this is natural. We were going to be the only class with fear in the beginning.

Remember necros have the longest casting times. What are ppl doing while necro is casting all their spells?

Running in fear from the rest necros in enemy team

necros have just 1 targeted fear, and you have to be melee range to be more effective than before patch. You have to be in DS, so you have to build LF beforehand.

also, have 2 ground targeted fears, so when you see a necro with a staff, get ready to dodge. It’s easier to not walk into the wall than dodge the mark, but whatever.
learn animations of spectral wall and mark of doom. Good luck with asura necros though.

Ppl need to cry less and l2p more.

I main a necro and I’m not immune to fears from other necros, but you don’t see me crying my eyes out for nerfs.

That may be cuz i’ve never seen any1 crying to nerf his main class. Anyway stop with this stupid “l2p”. We all know that necros and mesmers are OP this patch it’s just the ones who have use of it blame the rest that they can’t play. Problem with ppl is they support what they like and it’s just a game so focus on everything and help the devs with feedback so the game will be balanced and enjoyable for every1. And yes once again Necros are OP now, there are many things that are not right and need to be touched, modified and we will complain as long as they are being left like that. I’m paying for that service and i want to have the best experience. Lot of ppl do and if they don’t change that a lot of us will stop using the service -> stop paying. And they can balance the game it just needs lot of tests and time. It won’t be 100% balance but at least the difference wont be that big. I’m not crying for my main, i’m crying for all the classes, i want balance – to play warrior, guardian. ranger, thief, mesmer, necro, engineer, elementalist and be able to fight on an equal level with each of it.

Thieves and Mesmers are still OP, Warriors have ever been OP (just the fact that conditions became emproved lately and the fact people start to understand on how to counter them make people think they’re weak…:S), but people forgot it..
We as Necromancer players sucked and had hard times for 10 months since now (we are paying too) and now that we have some fun, people starts claiming weird things.
If you claim some balance, ask nerfs for classes which run full Berserk, bishot players and have more surv than a Necromancer.

Wake up please.

Lordrosicky.5813:

But all I am saying it is a lot easier to contribute in solo q since the patch. Too easy perhaps.

It’s easier ’cause necros were under par.
Now necros can contribute as effectively as other classes like mesmers, guardians and eles, thieves, etc.

Necros now can (not in a single build):
-put as much condi pressure as engies.
-burst as much fast as thieves with same survivability
-do as much AoE damage as mesmers

Necros have better Fears than anyone else, but this is natural. We were going to be the only class with fear in the beginning.

Remember necros have the longest casting times. What are ppl doing while necro is casting all their spells?

sorrow.2364:

Xeph.4513:

If guardians were an unkillable monster, then I would be inclined to agree with you; but as it is right now, guardians fulfil their role of a node holder without being over the top; any two competent dps are able to kill a guardian very easily, by no means is guardian a broken class, its just a fail safe for teams, so that no matter what happens in a match their guardian will always be able to buy them time.

The problem with necro is the amount of conditions they can put up instantly makes team fights trivial; in most instances people are only considering the necro as a single class, but coupled with any power class condition necro’s are unstoppable, I know for a fact there is nothing easier for me to kill then an enemy who the necro has pumped full of conditions and is spam fearing, its just like shooting fish in a barrel, I just target and kill target and kill, and its not by any merit of mine, but solely due to the fact that necro’s can spread these conditions at lightning speed.

If that is viewed as balance by people, then there is some serious self deception going on here.

Each time someone talks about Necro condition, I think about Engineers.
They are capable to stack the same amount of conditions as Necros (with the only exception of Torment, easily balanced with the access to Confusion) while also having blocking and some damage mitigation tools Necro does not have access to.

I wonder why Necro is imbalanced to your eyes while Engineer is not, since all you said about Necros can be easily said about Engineer too.

I wonder about the same thing because again necros can’t facetank dmg like engies

Xeph.4513:

Zenith.7301:

So when a guardian is the undisputed point holder and the only class with a 30 sec cd stunbreak that also grants group stability and retal, alongside some of the best cc and passive team aoe damage via retal — it is called “team utility”.

But when necro brings aoe weakness and condition pressure, it is not “team utility”.

Guardians and mesmers have been the best of the best at the roles they’ve been used for. The same could be said of elementalists.

Hell, people complain about glass necros having to be focused down as if it is some monstrous requirement, as if letting a staff elementalist hardcast his crap freely on a point wouldn’t be as devastating if nobody focuses them.

The same applies to a d/p thief. I f your team doesn’t focus him, he will gib someone.

But suddenly necros become a threat with only a single viable build (power necros didn’t get any better, every necro still needs to run a staff, and minions are still crap utility) and the meta comes to a crakittenhink when people don’t complain about classes like guardians is because they don’t die directly to them. Support classes rarely get the hate, even if they’re the ones largely responsible for enabling the result. It’s the most obvious classes, the ones doing the killing, that get attention.

If guardians were an unkillable monster, then I would be inclined to agree with you; but as it is right now, guardians fulfil their role of a node holder without being over the top; any two competent dps are able to kill a guardian very easily, by no means is guardian a broken class, its just a fail safe for teams, so that no matter what happens in a match their guardian will always be able to buy them time.

The problem with necro is the amount of conditions they can put up instantly makes team fights trivial; in most instances people are only considering the necro as a single class, but coupled with any power class condition necro’s are unstoppable, I know for a fact there is nothing easier for me to kill then an enemy who the necro has pumped full of conditions and is spam fearing, its just like shooting fish in a barrel, I just target and kill target and kill, and its not by any merit of mine, but solely due to the fact that necro’s can spread these conditions at lightning speed.

If that is viewed as balance by people, then there is some serious self deception going on here.

And yet every team needs to have a guardian. No other class can fill their role half as competently. No other class can give group stability or lay ground control like they can.

Part of the necro’s instant condition view is that people are getting hit by Epidemic. Epidemic just needs to be changed so it doesn’t double the amount of conditions on someone if a teammate happens to be near him.

Epidemic+ Engineer is a problem. So they need to change how epidemic works or remove it altogether for some other utility.

I really want to run some other weapon than the staff, or a power necro, or a bunker necro, but that just isn’t happening. I’m still made of glass with crappy defensive options and outside a condi build with burning I do no competitive pressure.

The last time I tried power necro with berk or soldier amulets I was hopelessly getting farmed by thieves and warriors and mesmers while trying to get to a point. You drop faster than a prom dress outside rabid conditions build.

Hey moderators! where are you? come here and do your job: close this troll thread.
Ppl are complaining about something they don’t even know.

To all those cryers out there: roll a necro, try to do all the things you say necros can do. When you realize you are as bad with necro as you are with your current class, you should stop with this nerf bullkitten.

Xeph.4513:

Hey, just to answer a few more questions in depth.

@ Kryshade, Necro’s now bring Burning, Torment and the new and improved weakness, these weren’t present previously and bringing that much condition pressure means and condition cover (for their bleeds and burning), has changed the class drastically.
It is true their previous flaw of being an easy to focus target hasn’t changed, but the fact that they can deal so much counter pressure back on the aggressors and ontop of stacking the new weakness condition, means that they are substantially more survivable even though they are glass canons, and most of the time force their target to back off, if not killing it, but you can almost say any class being bursted down apart from guardians will almost always go down. This scenario however isn’t always true

@Krilce, I am not just jumping on the nerf necro’s train, and have always been a very big advocate of necro’s receiving buffs, but when it has become very apparent that necro’s are bringing a gun to a knife fight.
If you also wish to discuss class viability, guardians and mesmers have always been a common choice of most teams, not because they are overpowered, but because of the utility they offer a team guardians can hold a point and sustain versus multiple targets, making it easier for their team mates to make plays around the map; whilst a mesmer offers illusion of life and portal which are hands down some of the best utilities in the game. Take these utilities away from those classes and watch them disappear from competitive play.
Necro on the other hand, offers great utility and massive aoe damage, that would even melt bunker guards; the damage at the moment is over the top and very very hard to counter; if the necro is giving a moderate time frame of free casting the team fight could be over before it has even started.

I am not saying this because I want them to nerf necro into the ground, I think that in its current state necromancer is over the top and could use some toning down .

So when a guardian is the undisputed point holder and the only class with a 30 sec cd stunbreak that also grants group stability and retal, alongside some of the best cc and passive team aoe damage via retal — it is called “team utility”.

But when necro brings aoe weakness and condition pressure, it is not “team utility”.

Guardians and mesmers have been the best of the best at the roles they’ve been used for. The same could be said of elementalists.

Hell, people complain about glass necros having to be focused down as if it is some monstrous requirement, as if letting a staff elementalist hardcast his crap freely on a point wouldn’t be as devastating if nobody focuses them.

The same applies to a d/p thief. I f your team doesn’t focus him, he will gib someone.

But suddenly necros become a threat with only a single viable build (power necros didn’t get any better, every necro still needs to run a staff, and minions are still crap utility) and the meta comes to a crash.

They just need to remove epidemic as a utility skill and balance the class without it. I’m tired of this class being thrown into the garbage bin everytime they “balance” (aka sledgehammer nerf like rangers took this patch on all game formats) it because some necro bombed people with an epidemic and they got mad.

I think when people don’t complain about classes like guardians is because they don’t die directly to them. Support classes rarely get the hate, even if they’re the ones largely responsible for enabling the result. It’s the most obvious classes, the ones doing the killing, that get attention.

Xeph.4513:

Hey, just to answer a few more questions in depth.

@ Kryshade, Necro’s now bring Burning, Torment and the new and improved weakness, these weren’t present previously and bringing that much condition pressure means and condition cover (for their bleeds and burning), has changed the class drastically.
It is true their previous flaw of being an easy to focus target hasn’t changed, but the fact that they can deal so much counter pressure back on the aggressors and ontop of stacking the new weakness condition, means that they are substantially more survivable even though they are glass canons, and most of the time force their target to back off, if not killing it, but you can almost say any class being bursted down apart from guardians will almost always go down. This scenario however isn’t always true

@Krilce, I am not just jumping on the nerf necro’s train, and have always been a very big advocate of necro’s receiving buffs, but when it has become very apparent that necro’s are bringing a gun to a knife fight.
If you also wish to discuss class viability, guardians and mesmers have always been a common choice of most teams, not because they are overpowered, but because of the utility they offer a team guardians can hold a point and sustain versus multiple targets, making it easier for their team mates to make plays around the map; whilst a mesmer offers illusion of life and portal which are hands down some of the best utilities in the game. Take these utilities away from those classes and watch them disappear from competitive play.
Necro on the other hand, offers great utility and massive aoe damage, that would even melt bunker guards; the damage at the moment is over the top and very very hard to counter; if the necro is giving a moderate time frame of free casting the team fight could be over before it has even started.

I am not saying this because I want them to nerf necro into the ground, I think that in its current state necromancer is over the top and could use some toning down .

I agree with almost everything youre saying. I do believe that most of the community is over exaggerating and this could bring a bigger nerf than needed; Most people dont really know how to fight a necro. They know that when a guardian books hes healing everyone, when a mesmer is using blurred frenzy you cant hit him, etc. This hasnt happened yet to the necromancer, necromancer has just been seen as that class that is slowly aplying bleeds on top of keep and should probably be dealt with when possible before he corrupt boons the guard to death. People dont even know what deathshroud skills do! no one bothered to make a necro to see what theyre doing since they never had a problem with them.
As I said before, necros are a bit on the overpowered side, but we have to let the meta settle a little before we decide just how OP necro is and a reasonable adjustment can be implemented.

Necros have no stability, no vigor(which means only two dodges), no invulnerability, and condi necros have very poor life force generation, so you pretty much use it only if you need to interrupt a heal, and add torment.

No, necros with burning can’t get 100% fear duration along with terror, because it got moved to master trait, and you can’t afford to lose greater marks, because staff is literally useless without it.

We are still very squishy and vulnerable to cc, so if we get focused down, it’s quite hard to live long enough to do something, so good positioning is absolutely a must.

Weakness got buffed, and it’s reducing damage by a large margin, just like I said it will, and everybody went screaming on me.

Our fear duration is pretty much lowered compared to what it used to be, if we take burning. If we don’t, our damage gets lowered by a large margin, and we become quite useless when it comes to damage output(compared to other classes).

Corrupt boon got nerfed, Signet got nerfed, so they are too unreliable now, and a lot(if not most) of the necros just removed them from their utility bar, replacing them either with Well of Corruption(which you can always get out of), or Spectral Wall(or even Spectral armor). Our damage got buffed, but our survivability hasn’t changed much, so we are like the squishiest squish of all the classes, because we have no damage mitigation besides weakness(slow life force generation means you won’t be able to use ds as a damage mitigation most of the times).

Xeph, every team is also running a mesmer and a guardian. Does that mean those professions are OP too? I’m sorry, but that kind of logic is flawed.

I’m quite surprised that even experienced players got into the “nerf necros train”, even though they haven’t even waited for meta to stabilize. Nobody knows how to play against necros, because nobody had a chance to play against them often enough to know what they are capable of.

I dont understand why its fine for teams to stack eles, mesmers and engies, but necros get a buff and all of a sudden meta is broken when you see 2 in a tournament. Necros took back their role as condition masters, which was stolen by the HGH engie a while back. It IS a little on the overpowered side (so has been the mesmer since release, people have just had to learn to counter them). I just hope Anet doesnt nerf us to the ground after a week and we’re back to being lesser engies with no access to burning (condi burst)

Xeph.4513:

Sadly I do agree, necro’s at the moment are very overtop and the testament to this is the fact that every team has taken it upon themselves to run a necro.
I know certain people believe that this is just a temporary thing, but fact is necro damage and utility is insane at the moment that they by far outclass all the other professions.

A lot of people have chosen to compare necro to the old hgh engie, but to tbh there is no real comparison necro’s are far superior in very single way, the cc poison and damage reduction through weakness, that they offer a team is indispensable.

Please don’t deceive yourselves by saying that necro isn’t over the top, fact is the meta will be dominated by necro’s and the more time you give it the more people will optimise their role and understand how to play around them.
I believe a lot of more experienced necro players then myself believe the same thing.

Regardless I hope that Arena-net does tone necro’s down, but also keep them viable at the same time, its been great seeing one of the lost professions in tpvp again.

Much respect for you Xeph but I’m curious as to what you think they bring now that they didn’t bring before? I will be the first to admit that if a necro traits into burning that they have the capacity to do a lot more damage. My counter to this is that a necro traited for burning has no choice but to be glass due to the trait allocations. Necros disappeared from tournies for quite some time because they were so easily focused down by other teams. A necro who is focused is a dead necro. That brings us to terror. Terror has not changed. Other than the spectral wall utility terror necro’s are the same as they were pre patch. We got some very minor adjustments to life force generation on weapons (we’re talking 1% here). Terror necro’s and well bomber hybrids were the two types of necros you saw in tournies pre-patch (there weren’t many of them though). A terror necro has a bit more survivability due to better life force generation but are still susceptible to focus fire and CC.

Necro survivability hasn’t changed very much at all. Spectral skills working in DS is a nice boost but they don’t overcome focus fire or provide stability etc. The glaring weaknesses of the necro in tourny play are still the same as they have ever been. Why is it suddenly that people feel like that can’t be countered now?

Xeph.4513:

Sadly I do agree, necro’s at the moment are very overtop and the testament to this is the fact that every team has taken it upon themselves to run a necro.
I know certain people believe that this is just a temporary thing, but fact is necro damage and utility is insane at the moment that they by far outclass all the other professions.

A lot of people have chosen to compare necro to the old hgh engie, but to tbh there is no real comparison necro’s are far superior in very single way, the cc poison and damage reduction through weakness, that they offer a team is indispensable.

Please don’t deceive yourselves by saying that necro isn’t over the top, fact is the meta will be dominated by necro’s and the more time you give it the more people will optimise their role and understand how to play around them.
I believe a lot of more experienced necro players then myself believe the same thing.

Regardless I hope that Arena-net does tone necro’s down, but also keep them viable at the same time, its been great seeing one of the lost professions in tpvp again.

Necros got clear animations, they’re predictable and their big hit skills got long CD, they’ve got no stealth, they can’t spam grenades on a point applying all possible conditions, stun/daze you to death like engies can, they can’t summon an insta-win elite like mesmer/engies ( moa form-supply crate), they are not close to unkillable like mesmers/engies.. BY MILES

Necros are OP? When did they become OP?
A couple dodges, a stun breaker and burst them down, some I win and some I lose, but the fight is completely fair and fun.

Fighting a necro is nothing like facing a kittening invisible [censored] hitting like a truck, kiting away while invisible ( mesmer-thief) and it’s nothing like facing a condition spammer like engy with their over the top elite which add even more sauce to the meal

- I don’t main necro -

If people complain so hard about something as legitimate as the necro then..sorry can I have stealth removed from game?

I just bought 1462 firefly cupcake, that was PAINFUL! please, make batch buying a thing for next events, or make that candy NOT have a confirmation box….. Thoughts if they should implement it?