Guild Wars 2

Light armour male is just… and afterthought. It’s so similar to sets we have already and it’s got far less love and detail than Kasmeer’s set. Sad.

Coarr.3286:

Siphaed.9235:

…Go do XXX content, get a “You completed XXX, congratulations!” …

my girlfriend never says: congratulations when we complete xxx content

Sounds to me like you’re getting bronze, maybe even silver, but haven’t quite reached gold on that event yet.

Siphaed.9235:

…Go do XXX content, get a “You completed XXX, congratulations!” …

my girlfriend never says: congratulations when we complete xxx content

When they screw up the way charr cultural armour works on charr I think it’s safe to say getting anet to pay attention to the issue is a lost cause.

T1 and 2 heavy shoulder pieces are bigger than my character’s head and float far above the shoulders, the t3 heavy helm will have large teeth and some face’s muzzle fur stick through it. The cumulative intelligence of the people responsible for t3 light leggings for charr forgot that they have tails, which says a lot.

It doesn’t even seem like an issue of rushing to make armour before launch, as the single set (aetherblade) they’ve released since then has tail clipping on every piece (but it’s less noticable on the heavy one because there is less there.)

We just need an option to make it more visible. It frequently gets lost in the effects. It’s especially bad if you have smartcasting activated.
And yes, this is PvP.

That light female armor is the closest to my favorite (that is not yet avail in the game).

Wheeeeennnnn??!!

What is the point of this thread? What is the discussion?

This isn’t your blog.

Parent: Would you like some cake?

Child: Oh, yes please. I’d like that very much

Parent: What flavor would you like?

Child: Vanilla, please

Parent: Alrightly. Be back in a jiffy.

Cut, Cut, Cut

Parent: Aaaaaand here’s your cake!

Child: Ummm…this is chocolate. I had asked for vani…

Parent: YOU WANTED CAKE AND I GAVE YOU CAKE, YOU LITTLE INGRATE! DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA HOW HARD I WORK MY FINGERS TO THE BONE JUST SO YOU CAN HAVE SOME CAKE?!?! I SAY EAT IT A WHILE AND THEN SEE YOU HOW FEEL!!!

Child: But I no longer have a fork to eat it wi…

Parent: OHHHH, SO MR. ROCKEFELLER HERE NEEDS A FOOOOOORK TO EAT HIS CAKE, TOO!!! WHAT, EATING IT WITH YOUR FINGERS IS TOO GOOD FOR YOU, MR. HIGH-AND-MIGHTY…MR. MANNERS?!?!

Child: Well, I guess I can…it’s just a bit messy and going to be kind of difficult now to do anythi…

Parent: TOO DIFFICULT?!?! NOW IT’S TOO DIFFICULT FOR YOU?!?! FINE, JUST FOR THAT, I’LL SHOW YOU DIFFICULT…

Cut, Cut

Parent: THERE! NOW YOU ONLY HAVE HALF AS MUCH CAKE AS YOU DID BEFORE! THAT SHOULD MAKE IT MUUUUUUUUUUUUCH LESS DIFFICULT FOR YOU, MY PRECIOUS WIDDLE SNOWFLAKE!!!

Child: :*(

Moral: The cake really is a lie.

Allie Murdock.8152:

Ok, here’s the deal. I’m hearing different things from everyone I talk to.

1. Necro DS is too much and should be brought down
2. Necro damage is too much and should be brought down
3. Necro survivability is bad

Let me care to explain the differences in opinion: circumstance

Death Shroud can be quite nice in the right circumstances. DS literally doubles the Hit Points of the Necromancer (which is already high to begin with), and with further life force generation it increases their HP more and more. In small engagements, this is ridiculous. I don’t have a video of this, but I have an example:

In WvW I regularly have full Life Force because it is a lot easier to get there. Once while looking at the map and opening TS3, I heard my toon being attacked. It turned out that a mesmer had snuck up behind me and was attacking me. So I quickly changed windows, exited the map, and entered into combat. Sorry to say, this mesmer stood absolutely no chance. Their stealth did nothing against my marks + life transfer + tainted shackles, they couldn’t escape due to dark path, my bone minions and flesh golem bashed on that poor mesmer like they were fodder, and after I began to terror burst it was over.

The fact is that this player didn’t stand a chance: I had so much more HP that in an even fight I would’ve stomped them into the ground with barely a scratch.

But this is the ultimate two flaws of Death Shroud: it is inconvenient, and it is finite. You have to build specifically for Life Force generation, with many builds not capable of doing so. In lacking builds, this results in DS being a non-factor in their defense. I don’t have a lot of Life Force generation on my condition builds because I opt for things like Reaper’s Protection and Spiteful Spirit. The second issue is that the finite nature of DS puts a hard limit toward its damage mitigation.

When compared to blocks, dodges, and invulnerability the finite nature of DS is both good and bad. In 1 vs. 1 scenarios, great life force generation or a full bar gives a ton of survivability, because the scale of damage you are mitigating per second is quite small. One player can only dish out so much damage in that 2 second duration that most blocks take up. However, blocks and dodges don’t have a cap on the amount of damage they can mitigate. If you block at the right time, you can avoid a nuclear holocaust This makes blocks and dodges superior in large engagements, consisting of 3 or more players on any one side. Here, the damage and control quickly escalates, and when focused those block and dodges mitigate more damage than your whole HP bar. Death Shroud… does not do this. It is a limited source of damage absorption that grows slowly, so it is quickly eaten up by enemy DPS while offering no direct immunity from any of their attacks. The conditions they apply are still there, the control that hits you still lingers, the damage is taken away from DS, never to return.

In these multiple engagements is where we get complaints that Necros are too vulnerable. Weakness and protection can reduce some of the damage done, but the damage isn’t truly stopped, and those can be stripped away or cleansed quickly. The necro can’t escape, which is another way to mitigate focus fire, and players know this. I can’t count how many times in sPVP or WvW I’ve rounded a corner only to see 4 guys that proceed to kill me quickly, despite Weakening Shroud + Spectral armor at the same time. The necromancer is completely helpless in these circumstances. It is for this reason that in tPVP they always focus on the Necromancer first. Not because they are the most dangerous class, but because they are the easiest class to kill, instantly balancing the fight in the favor of whomever killed the Necro.

The lack of healing on all builds not completely dedicated to vampirism doesn’t help, either. This adds to the finite nature of Necromancer survivability.

As for a fix for this problem, I’m not sure. By default I would say to just give necromancers the tools they are missing and be done with it, but you guys said you don’t want to do that. Instead, we are left with a class where we have to keep ramping up their damage or their durability so they can survive team engagements, but this makes them ever more overpowered in small engagements.

there is so much misinformation about necros in this thread from the nerf callers it is ridiculous…

the OP is not being objective in the slightest, perhaps he could add to his first post all the drawbacks and weaknesses to the build he is crying about?

Why wouldn’t he post this in the necro forums if it wasn’t just another nerf thread because people aren’t used to losing to necros?

How well does he know the class after playing one for only a couple days?

It is sad to see the devs are watching this thread in particular as part of their decision making process for class balance. It would be like Obama watching Fox news to gather information for all his decisions.

jmatb.6307:

Glenn.3417:

I’m clueless

You’re not worth responding to at this point anybody who doesn’t see how broken Necros are is batkitten crazy.

Your points are invalid. We are not broken because of range, because you suffer more damage the closer you get to us. We are broken because we push too much damage to fast, and if we can snowball to full DS with CD’s you have no shot. Please adjust your comments to reality.

Because of this, engineers are really good at applying bleeds in an AoE. Their skills do more direct damage, apply more long term bleeds, and fly further. The disadvantage being that grenades are much harder to use. So, how is it that the Necromancer gets so much AoE focus? Well, that comes down to their ace move: Epidemic.

Something I didn’t include in this was the Necro auto attack, which fires off 2 × 5 bleeds every 1.25 seconds or so, and factoring barbed precision this is 9 bleed ticks per second. This is really good on a single target basis, but in AoE it isn’t that good at all, since the AoEs can hit up to 5 targets, making them 5 times better. However, in 1 vs. 1 the scepter is undoubtedly king for the Necromancer, since in long term it applies more bleeding and poison to boot. It is here that necromancers get access to something that engineers don’t: condition burst.

Engineer conditions are gradual by design. They’re good at AoE bleeds, but it takes awhile to truly build them up, and many times the RNG is not kind them. Engineers have readily available access to confusion, but not a lot of it, firing it off in short bursts as counter play more than as a source of damage. The main damage source for condition engineers comes from their incredible access to burning, and this doesn’t stack in intensity, so they can’t layer it up for greater damage.

Necromancers have the option to do two things. First, they have the option to layer up every condition they have at once. This takes a rather long combo to pull off (Grasping dead + enfeebling blood + weakening shroud + Dark Path + Mark of Blood + Putrid Mark + Signet of Spite OR Blood is Power) and that can be neutralized by good cleansing and dodge/blocks rather quickly. The second thing in their arsenal is Epidemic, which is the only technique in the game that acts as a force multiplier instead of an addition. Epidemic multiplies the damage done on one target to another, regardless of where the source of those conditions come from. Despite the fact that it is situational and unwieldy, Epidemic is arguably one of the strongest moves in the game, from both an offensive and defensive perspective.

This gives necromancers true killing power as far as a condition build goes. With the deadliest stun in game via Terror, they can lock down and burst down a single target, and with an elaborate chain + epidemic they can burst all conditions into a massive AoE.

This seems like it might be overpowered, but it really isn’t. In order to layer up massive terror, you opponent has to first be hit by it, not break out of it, and not have stability. A player with knowledge of positioning can stun break out of the combo then move out of optimal terror position, rendering the combo meaningless. When all is said and done, in both WvW and in sPVP I’ve only managed to use a full 7 second (not 100% duration) terror burst once, since most players are smart enough to know when it is coming, and to get out of the way / counter play when it does come.

With condition bursts, the fact remains that it takes forever for those conditions to actually inflict damage, even if you layer them up all at once. Counter-control and escapes completely mess up the combo, since you have to blow nearly every relevant cooldown to have meaningful condition burst, and if they happen to pack a total condition cleanse on themselves, then everything can be for not. Epidemic as a force multiplier only works against groups, so the necro always suffers from the threat of being focused down and controlled, and then with increased group cleansing there is always the threat that Epidemic will simply miss or be neutralized instantly.

I say this a lot, and I’m going to keep saying it: A condition necro is ultimately not in control of the fight. Their defense, their offense, both are in the opponents court. We just lay down our skills and see what happens, lacking a lot of the depth that other classes have in engagement.

To be honest, I only read about to the 3rd page, because after that it sounded a bunch like “waaah waah whaaah” and “Neayyeameaemaea” to me. So, I’ll address some of the relevant points:

On engineers and bleeding: Since I also play an engineer a lot, I have experience with this. The ability for Engineers to inflict bleeding in an AoE is readily seen by comparing their AoE bleed capabilities. For this, I will assume that the engineer is using grenadier, but ignoring condition duration.

Shrapnel Grenade: 3 bleeds, 12 second duration, recharge every 5 seconds (4 when traited). This comes to 3 × 12 / 5 = 7.2 bleed ticks per second, and 9 bleed ticks per second with the recharge increase.

Mark of Blood: 3 Bleeds, 8 seconds, duration, recharges every 6 seconds (4.75 when traited). This comes to 3 × 8 / 6 = 4 bleed ticks per second, and 5.1 bleed ticks per second with the recharge increase.

Grasping Dead: 3 bleeds, 7 second duration, recharges 10 seconds. Comes to 2.1 bleed ticks per second.

Enfeebling Blood: 2 bleeds, 10 second duration, 25 second recharge (20 when traited). Comes to 1 bleed tick per second when traited with recharge, and 0.8 bleeds per second when not traited.

If we are to ignore the cooldown on weapon swaps, the engineer has the Necromancer beat in long term damage if the necro combines all 3 AoE skills with youthful abandon. This is when things become much more complicated: we have to factor in procs.

Engineers get several procs that go along with grenades. Ignoring Incendiary Powder because engineers get many sources of burning outside of grenades, we have 2 procs that concern us:

Shrapnel: 15% chance, 12 seconds of bleed, occurs with every explosion.
Sharpshooter: 30% chance for 3 second bleed on critical hit.

Engineer grenades hit 3 times, and each of these has a chance to proc on use. It is also worth mentioning that the Sigil of Earth is much more likely to proc in these circumstances against a single target. For simplicity, I’ll just use a 25% crit rate for both classes, assuming that these are builds that have the relevant traits, but don’t bother building up too much precision. You may use different numbers if you like.

So, this means that each grenade, we get 12 × 0.15 = 1.8 bleed ticks per attack, coming to an additional 4.8 bleed ticks per attack factoring in all of the grenades. With Sharpshooter we have 0.3 × 0.25 × 3 = 0.225 bleed ticks per attack and on 3 grenades this comes to 0.675 bleed ticks per attack in total.

Necromancers themselves have a similar trait: barbed precision. This gives a 66% chance to inflict a 2 second bleed, and with a 25% crit rate this comes to 0.33 bleed ticks per attack. Since necromancers don’t get multiple attacks, this is only added to each of the bleed durations above.

Now, bleed ticks per attack and bleed ticks per second are not the same thing. If you attack more quickly than once a second, it goes up. If you attack slower than once a second, it goes down. So, for arguments sake, I will assume that the attacks are used approximately 0.75 seconds apart, increasing each of those bleed ticks per attack up by 33%. So, in total:

Engineers: 5.5 × 1.33 = 7.315 bleed ticks per second with grenades, and 16.315 bleed ticks per second with shrapnel grenade

Necromancer: 5.5 Bleed ticks per second with Mark of Blood, 2.5 with grasping dead, 1.4 with Enfeebling Blood.

EDIT: fixed a math error.

TL;DR people in the sPvP forums isn’t capable of looking at things outside the meta. Is spectral armor + DS incredibly strong? Yes, in fact it is almost as strong as these crazy other things that every single other class gets called evades, invulnerabilities, dodges (and vigor), blocks, etc. We don’t have a single one of those, except one dodge every ten seconds. We get a single defensive measure; Death Shroud. It is a single, deplete-able HP bar that we have to fill up in combat.

What happens if we have no DS? We die. What happens when we get CCed? We blow our single stun break, or die. What happens when we get focused? We pray that we have enough DS to absorb it all, or that screaming “HOLY CRAP TEAM HELP ME” in teamspeak is enough to get your team to peel for you. Because guess what; we have no ways to avoid damage, we have no ways to get out of combat, our ways to deal with CC suck. Currently the way to play Necromancer revolves around trying to do so much damage that they aren’t able to go offensive on you OR praying to God that your large HP bar is enough to absorb burst after burst after burst, because guess what, you aren’t avoiding a single sliver of that damage.

jmatb.6307:

Spectrals are worthless?! What planet do you live on lol you get a single skill that can eat an entire Ele burst in DS from 1/2 to barely more than 1/4. Without dodging. That is unbelievably strong.

Skills that can “at an entire Ele burst”

Warrior endure pain; check
Guardian renewed focus; check
Mesmer distortion; check
Ele mist form; check
Thief teleports+stealth; check
Engi elixir s; check
Ranger signet of stone; check

And those are just the ones that popped right in my mind, there are even more.

Stop uttering nonsense and trying to bring down a class cause you can’t play yourself.

I’ve avoided discussing the PVE scene because of, ultimately, that’s on the sidelines for my personal goals, but since it is brought up a lot I might as well talk about it.

Doing PVE with a necro has always been a mixed bag. This is mostly because, even if I ask beforehand in a dungeon group if someone else is running a condi build, they never respond. I have to find out later that the thief is spamming death blossom, because saying “I am” in party chat is apparently too difficult to do. Maybe they’re just afraid that they’ll get kicked for saying yes by elitists, but don’t realize we can detect a condition build from a mile away.

The overlapping of burning is an extremely big problem here. In any group, if there is a guardian, elementalist, or engineer you might as well not have Dhuumfire. Warriors, Mesmers, and Rangers also apply burning when specced for it, making it so Dhuumfire is only a safe bet when paired with thieves, and maybe warriors since they rarely run their burns.

You’ll only want to run a condition build in a premade, but when done right it is pretty good. Enemies in PVE have a lot of HP, and the damage multiplication from Epidemic can be immense in the right circumstances. Lay down 13 AoE bleeds, fire epidemic, then everything in the room is at the cap. When fighting against multiple champions and bosses, this makes taking care of all of them at once really easy. With spectral wall, you can inflict terror on a group of enemies 2 to 3 times, doing quite a bit of damage and control. Combine that with AoE weakness as well as group condition transfers and regen, and the Necro can come out on top with their conditions.

I don’t have a plan to improve condi necros in PVE because, for the most part, thy are fine. I would like to see 2 things done:

#1: Terror does full damage through defiant.
#2: Dhuumfire causes either 4/5 stacks of confusion or 4/5 stacks of torment instead of burning. Rename it something else.

And I’ll be good. For the most part, the flaws with conditionmancers are flaws with conditions in general.

For most of PVE, though, I run a much different set. Knight armor w/ ruby orbs, ruby trinkets, berserker weapons, 30/0/10/0/30 build. The good ole powermancer. There’s only a few complaints I can have with the class, and the biggest complaint is that I can’t run full zerker without becoming incredibly squishy. So, I have to run either knight trinkts or knight armor so I can survive more of a hit.

The damage isn’t too bad, but it isn’t too good, either. PVE is ruled by AoEs, and necromancers don’t have a cleave. If necros want AoE power, there’s only 3 things they can do:

1)Use a staff for it’s piercing auto attack and Putrid Mark
2)Use Wells and Bone Minions
3)Pick up Unyielding Blast.

I went with the latter. Unyielding Blast and Reapers Might lets me do piercing attacks from a distance, and they hit for around 5K each, so by hitting 3 or so enemies it does 15K per auto attack. That isn’t too bad, but unfortunately ikittens my defense with my offense, requiring me to sacrifice Death Shroud in order to do respectable damage.

The biggest problem being that, as a powermancer in PVE, you have to sacrifice a lot of utility in order to do AoE damage. We get 3 utility skills, and giving 2 of them over for AoE damage via wells means that we get one trick to let us “contribute” to our team, and with long cooldowns that is an exaggeration. It is for this reason that power mancers are stuck with running 10 in Death Magic: So they can take Ritual of Protection and go “See? I contribute! I give everyone really short protection!”.

This is two places where a conditionmancer really beats out a powermancer in PVE. They do more damage in an AoE, and they come with a whole lot more support utility by default. If conditions weren’t so messed up in PVE, the conditionmancer would be the norm.

To remedy this issue, I’ll have to take some other people’s suggestions and improve on the power weapons themselves:

Axe #1 Should cleave. Give it a small AoE and a 3 target cap.
Axe #3 Should be a blast finisher.
Dagger #2 should do 50% more damage and heal for 50% more.
Warhorn #5 should do double the damage.

Again: a lot of these ideas are not my ideas. While these sound powerful, in the grand scale of PVP these do very little. It is only in PVE that these are significant changes.

It’s hilarious how Caffynated described necro berserker power builds as “great built in survivability for glass”.

Pretty much discredits the rest. Try running a power necro for any amount of time before you ever feel like saying stuff like this again.

As a glass necro you died to burst builds faster than anything but a glass ranger.

Power dagger necros are in a horrendous state. A melee class with no teleports, no actual burst that needed to go into a teamfight melee range but had no disengages.

Are you kidding me? Power necros were fine? This is just aggravating.

Allie Murdock.8152:

Hey all, just wanted to let you know that we’re watching this thread closely.

Really appreciate the constructive feedback, particularly yours, Phantaram. You seem to be analyzing from a very objective and unbiased point of view, which is very helpful.

This is not confidence inspiring. I am not sure why it is that somebody with six hours of necro experience who produces a troll video is labeled as “objective and unbiased.”

Allie Murdock.8152:

Ok, here’s the deal. I’m hearing different things from everyone I talk to.

1. Necro DS is too much and should be brought down
2. Necro damage is too much and should be brought down
3. Necro survivability is bad

Which is it? At this point, I want to see streams and videos of matches.

Why do you want to see more streams and videos of cherry picked “data” that is basically going to just show you whatever the person who videos it wants you to see?

Here is what I think a fair assessment of what is going on with the class is:

1) You probably botched up with the addition of Dhuumfire. You then compounded that mistake by nerfing terror instead of Dhuumfire or swapping the the 30% condition duration in the spite tree with something else. The reason that’s so is because you made 30/20/-/-/- required for anybody that wants to play condition damage. The natural place for the remaining 20 points is soul reaping for some additional survivability.

2) The latest changes to siphoning and death shroud were probably overall good, if your vision of the class is a meat shield for attrition fighting. The bleed over of life force into health was a bad choice, because it means that we can’t absorb any kind of burst damage if life force is low, and we need that possibility because we have no other defense in that case. Irrespective of that nerf, I think that necro players are of the opinion that we do not actually fight attrition fights as well as a variety of other classes, even if we are specced to do so. We have reasons to think this beyond just “I think my class should be able to go 1v3 and win.”

3) Right now, there are too many asinine proposed “fixes” to the necro class to count, and you guys are spasming through a bunch of ham handed buffs and nerfs. Further, you are giving lots of necro players the impression that all of your balancing is being done on the word of tourney players with alterior motives. This is really not great. What you need to do is actually sit down and take a look at the math for yourselves on what the possible damage inputs and outputs are for a few builds, think up a couple of possible fixes or adjustments, and then actually talk to necro players about them.

reedju.5786:

I feel like (for the most part) those who main necro want dhuumfire gone (because they know what we are capable of without it) and those who mainly fight necros want DS brought down (theyve faced burst before, but don’t realize how situational/squishy DS really is).

The supposed nerfs aimed at bringing necro in line for PvP, however, have started conflicts in balance between PvP/PvE players.

And then there are those that think condi necro should be a quasi-melee class…

Hopefully Arenanet has a better sense of what they want done with the necro than the community does because if not…I don’t even want to imagine it.

We never needed extra damage, we had a strong control/teamfight niche with (even if it was limited) some diversity. Now the undisputedly apex build is 30/20/0/0/20, for me simply the effect on class diversity, and the communities sanity is enough evidence that burning was a bad idea. It literally has no counterplay. Coming from a previously “UP” necro I’d rather return to that time when we could play well and get good results in return. Anyone who tries to argue that a skilless RNG ability is a good direction for this game can forget competitive play.

Yes the engi has it, but it doesn’t have any of our access to control or boonstripping. Also, it is only supplementary to the burning they have interesting ways to use. Too much is too much, the recent changes to DS, LF, weakness, blind (sorta? people act like we have so many applications of this when in reality we have a single weapon/utility/elite), and torment were plenty. Honestly if anyone should have had this much added at once it should have been warrior or any of the countless other unplayed condi classes (thief/mesmer/guard/ele/etc.)

To be honest, I’m not a fan of Dhuumfire. I don’t find it to be overpowered due to how frequently it goes wrong, but it does seem like it is a big bandaid to a problem that should’ve been solved other ways.

I was against giving Necromancers burning long before they got burning. If they needed more condition damage, then they should’ve received better access to poison, bleeds, and confusion. If they needed more raw power, then they should’ve just buffed the base damage of those attacks. It is a simple solution, but a relatively effective on.

I would’ve preferred confusion instead of burning. For one there’s play involved, since confusion is based on action instead of a straight DPS. Second, confusion is rarely used so it won’t be overwritten by other classes. It provides depth while providing either offense or defense through enemy inaction. It works great on an engineer for both purposes, so it would make sense that it would also work well on a necromancer.

I find the whole thing inelegant, and if Dhuumfire was removed I wouldn’t be sad about it. My concern is whether necromancers would loose too much by losing it. Without that burning proc, Necros do lose a lot of power in a 1 vs 1 situation, since the bleeds are slow to accumulate, and the auto attack chain is often interrupted before poison is applied.

Phantaram.1265:

Caffynated.5713:

I felt like necro was mostly OK before this patch. They were the strongest class in game by a small margin, but they had some strong counters. Their lack of mobility was made up for with their great built in survivability even in a glass cannon spec. They could melt you if you didn’t focus fire them, but they couldn’t handle being trained or chain CC’d.

Now, they have just as much damage (terror nerf isn’t even equivalent to 1 stack of bleeding) but we’re juggernauts in death shroud with life force coming out of our ears.

The one major drawback to dhuumfire + terror specs was their poor life force generation. It kept them in check by limiting their ability to use death shroud for attack and defense. The buff to base mark size freed up the points needed to get soul marks (and of course the bonus spectral armor) and coupled with the increased life force generation from spectrals, dhuumfire glass cannons now have an abundance of life force. Couple that with the bug fix to DS ability to soak damage, and it has more than doubled the survivability of a “glass” cannon that was already fairly stout to begin with.

I think this is a pretty accurate analyzation of what has happened between the last 2 patches. +1 Caffynated!

Buffing necromancer damage to what it was may not have been the right decision because it didn’t affect necromancer playstyle much just made them viable through sheer damage. Now with 20 in soul reaping + spectral armor buff + the new deathshroud necromancers playstyle is exactly where it should be but now they have the high damage that got implemented before.

So I think what happens when we nerf the damage a bit is that we have necromancers with a proper playstyle but is moved more toward balance.

Thanks for the kind words Allie! Glad you have provided these forums with some transparency and love lately <3

No offence mate, but if you’re only going to comment one ppl who agree with your choice of nerfing the necro and ignoring comments about the actual veteran necro players it couldn’t be more obvious of how biased you are.

If you’d actually played necro for longer than 6 hours you’d know that even with the spectral changes necro is no where as op as you claim it to be.
I also saw the video where (I think it was you) showed how your necro friend can eat your ele burst, no necro starts a fight with over 50% ds. So if you’d do that in a realistic setting, that burst would simply flow over in his hp, pretty fast and leaving him with much needed def skills on cd.

azuzephyr.7280:

I was talking to you, and I stand by that there is no point talking about pvp in terms of numbers, especially in terms of bleed pressure when neither profession is reliant on it. Bleed might account for more damage than any one other source during an encounter by virtue of being atached to auto-attack, but my output comes from other sources, bleed is merely the most common filler.

I’m rank 48/84.59% win ratio and highest ladder rank being 59[albeit a currently retired one]. Never have me or my team wanted bleed pressure from any source, not from engi, or necro.

…No point of talking about numbers in PVP? What do you think governs the system of PVP? It is about how high your numbers are, at what rate those numbers come (divided by activation and animation time), how reliable those numbers are (procs and chances to hit), how available those numbers are (recharge time), and how those numbers defend against other numbers (vitality, toughness, protection, cleanses, invulnerability frequency, etc). It is these very numbers that Arenanet changes to balance classes, and since we have seen unquestionably the effect that these numbers have on the metagame, then it means that the numbers are a foundation of the game.

I’m going to stop you here, since your case for reasoning is that objectivity, mathematics, and logic have no place in discussion where they are fundamental. Get rid of those and you are left with nothing but unverifiable hearsay, incomplete anecdotes, and paranoia drudged up on the same level that the boogeyman is around every corner and is going to get you no matter how strong or well armed you are. This train of thought will devolve into nothing but a “But no, I can counter their counter by doing this counter on their other counter”, which will never produce anything meaningful.

reedju.5786:

I feel like (for the most part) those who main necro want dhuumfire gone (because they know what we are capable of without it) and those who mainly fight necros want DS brought down (theyve faced burst before, but don’t realize how situational/squishy DS really is).

I want people to adjust their comps to deal with a meta change instead of running to the forums to complain. Where do I fit?

jmatb.6307:

Lack of mobility? Lack of mobility? Spectral walk, spectral grasp, DS 2, focus 5, Signet of Spite, Golem Charge, ….

Really I dream every night of me riding my Flesh Golem ordering a charge to my other minions and all together rush victorious into the enemies..

Sorry to the OP, but by the moment “we” are heavily offtopic, I couldn’t hold this one.

I would like to request anyone still arguing against necromancers outside dhuumfire read the above series of posts first.
The guy poured his heart and soul into those highly informative and argumentative posts, and you’d do THE LEAST to read them, and +1 them. If you cannot muster that bit of attention to read through what is admittedly a wall of (extremely high quality) text, then I advise you refrain from posting your own ideas without at least providing back-up arguments of such or similar calibre (this goes especially for the troll idea of lowering necro range).
Moreover, the quoted posts above, without doubt, ought becoming the main subject on one of the (or preferably, several) future devs’ meetings.

Bhawb.7408:

I think more to the point is that they were suddenly overwhelmed by a rush of people saying a single thing, and it took the other side a while to even realize there was a problem (I don’t think anybody was thinking these changes were going to be considered OP) and respond in kind. The latest quote from Allie Murdock shows that they are hearing the other sides now, and frankly I think they will realize that the idea that Necros are too strong defensively is ridiculous.

And…now its 17 hours after Allie asked for post-patch video proof of necros being OP, there have been four more pages of comments with no real video evidence.