Guild Wars 2

Master of Timespace.2548:

andyMak.6985:

but still, in stealth = no dps

Bad argument: in mistform = no dps. Doesn’t mean ele should be able to mistform at will. Not to mention that you regen in stealth, gain might and lose conditions. d/p definitely needs a tune down.

Mistform is also a invulnerability. Stealth isnt…
Just saying…

I just want to be clear guys that WvW is far different from sPVP and confusion builds fare far better there. Both because of the increased numbers of people, and because of the plethora of choke points.

Confusion wasn’t nerfed in WvW because of what one mesmer could do. It was nerfed because of what a coordinated group of mesmers could do. 3 stacks of confusion hurt, 6 stacks kills, 10+ stacks eradicates. Glamor mesmers coordinating could easily put multiple stacks per mesmer on a large amount of people resulting in ridiculously easy zerg wipes.

My hope is that in time they roll the confusion damage back partway in return for making some of the tactics respect the 5 target limit. The problem with this is if they change the mechanic for some of these things they completely nerf many other skills in the game. So this is what needs to be done for the time being.

Oh, and confusion will still hurt. It just won’t be doing 2k+ damage per skill use on someone without multiple mesmers. Last note: I hope they buff the rest of ele’s ability to do condition damage. I really do.

It’s more like “die because you didn’t dodge instead of expecting boons to save you”. Some builds may now scare you – there is risk!

They said they’re going to compensate and up the guardian/ improve their viability for changes that they made to other classes which really will pose problems for the guardian. I’d chill and wait. I’d be far more concerned if I were an ele.

lol, the patch isn’t even in effect yet and you guys are demanding the same health buffs they removed in the past. HEAVEN FORBID WARRIORS POSE A SERIOUS THREAT.

Sandra Martino.3870:

The only way to get evidence would be me asking you dearly what profession you play as your main. Because of your negative tone combined with your view of reality i have no way of acquiring said evidence.

I simply used common sense, since you got “kitten”. (kitten: combine bottom back with pain.)

Troll harder.

When one’s view is distinctly different from majority’s consensus, one ought to reflect on their own behavior. This is why everyone “L2P’s” you.

People “L2P” everyone on this forum because it’s the laziest way out of producing an actual argument they can come up with. So yeah, seen this before. Just another person thoughtlessly spewing out the same crap.

Like i said, this is the internet. I tried to show that you were wrong but in the same sentence i realized that you will never see. For example, discussing creationists versus atheist never conceived any results in changing opinions on either side.

Because of majority consensus, i do however claim that you are wrong.

“Majority consensus” being the one that apparently exists only in the fairy tales dancing about in your head. Man you’re bad at this.

You did, you’ve gone overboard in how 5 warriors + 2 randoms can hit on you and have you make it out alive. This is the same case as saying the militairy army invaded your house and you made it out alive because we simply cannot prove so.

It’s commonplace watching a guardian walk through a zerg to make it safely into a keep with no problem in WvW. Siege like any given keep and you’re almost certain to see it. Not really rocket science.

Also, lol @ “[…] 5 warriors + 2 randoms […]”. Unless you can actually find where I’ve said that, you kind of fail. Lose. Are incorrect. And generally Making Crap Up. /shrug

Setun didn’t nail anything, neither did you (see bold section). While i can already imagine your response by taking all my quotes into your own quotes with biased opinions we can go on forever… i got more important things to do.

(if your reaction however is amusing enough to me, i wont disappoint you)

Coming across as a pseudo-intellectual desperate to seem cool and aloof on an internet forum, check. Next time you reply to me, actually provide the substance of an argument you seem to be grasping at rather than this embarrassing flailing. In fact, better to just PM me rather than clutter this thread with garbage.

What Setun said is true – I’m totally saying to chill out and just wait and see. This patch might be a nice refreshment, even if it needs tweaked further – and it will.

There is no rules that say they should be viable in all field. That is determined by Anet devs that develop the concepts for the professions. No holy trinity model does not automatically indicate every class should be capable in any role players define for them.

I’ve been playing SPVP since I heard about the nerf. I still have good success. I’m sticking with my condition build on my PVP/WVW mesmer. Is there anyone else who plans on sticking to their condition build?

As an engi with no confidtion damage or duration (cleric gear) running around with 10-15 stacks of might i could easily get 700+ damage per tick with a prybar. Confusion itself is really strong in actual WvW. Like someone mentionned earlier, if the only condition you have on you is confusion, you can either not use a skill nor dodge (even more important when specced for something on dodge), but try that in WvW when you get hit by like 5-6 different conditions. Not all classes/builds run 5+ cond removal and we cant choose what condition we want off. If I get hit by a 12 confusion stack burst and I need to grab my medkit + drop antidote + hope I get confusion off, meanwhile im being constantly hit, I get 2 confusion procs if im lucky and the extra damage dealt… I’m sorry, but the l2p argument is not a good one, it does way too much damage as is.

As for the argument of rerolling + regearing, stop your QQ. You need less than 100g to get from 1 to 80 and get fully geared in less than a day.

TL;DR the nerf was meant to be one day or an other, it doesnt make confusion useless, just makes it more balanced.

I don’t get what the big deal is about these new “Boon hate” stuff…

Warriors – If going 30 points into a tree that people tend not to go that far into (Also, remember that going that far will limit build diversity. If you see Warriors in PvP, they’re most likely going to be 10/X/10/X/30 in order to capitalize on the changes that are coming in) they can deal an extra 3% damage per unique boon on the target. Which considering Protection is 33% damage reduction (Also pretty good uptime on most Guardians/Elementalists) won’t make a big difference.

People saying “Oh noes applying boons to allies is going to get them killed” but if you as a group of people have trouble with taking down/avoiding a Warrior, then you’d probably die regardless if Boon-hate…

The Block ignoring is a new active effect from Signet of Might (They said they were also buffing other actives on various signets, possibly on other classes aswell) where they stated that the next 3 attacks will ignore block. It’s not up all the time, it’s not “You’re attacks will hit through invulnerability too”, it may not even be picked up by everyone due to it taking up a Utility slot and provides little utility when fighting non-Guardians (It will give 180 power passive with an active of block ignoring. How egotistical do you need to be to think that your class is so strong that ALL Warriors you’ll face will have build themselves purely to countering your class?)

As far as Thieves boon stealing goes, the weapon set is pretty lackluster as it is (Due to how bad Thief defence is, necessitating them to go Dagger/X burst for the most part) and they never said if they’d do anything to make the second hit less easy to dodge (Currently using Flanking Strike, nearly everyone already dodges the second strike)

This is also coupled with the fact that Thief burst is coming down with the change to Mug not critting, thus it means that even if the Thief does steal your boons their burst is being reduced by a fair amount.

This boon hate thing is minor at best. Mostly because the new mechanics in play are kind of already in play.

Thieves: There is a trait that, once discovered, I have never taken off any build. It is called Bountiful Theft. It gives AoE vigor for 15 seconds, and also steals 2 boons from a target and gives them in an AoE, too. I use this ability liberally in game, due to how good it is. Worst case scenario it’s vigor, and best case scenario it’s fury + 25 stacks of might.

Warriors: These guys don’t get “boon hate” as much as they get a tool that helps them deal with the fact that they don’t do much in the first place. The anti-blocking abilities are a bit of a bigger worry, but to be fair warriors were getting pwned by pretty much anything that could block their controls.

At least it isn’t an arcane thievery mesmer, which steals all your boons and sets you on fire with your own justice.

Amins.3710:

Sil.

There’s not doubt Bunker builds are the worst enemy for both Guardians and Warriors.

But you cannot argue the fact that a “DPS” type guardian is going to survive w/ these changes.

I suppose we’ll discover how things play out, which is what I’ve been saying across multiple threads. I’m hoping this is beneficial for warriors. Guardians have been high up on the chain of fighting others for some time, so I can’t really feel any sympathy if there’s a month of weakness for them between now and the next patch. It’s part of balancing and maybe it’s guardians’ turn to feel the burn.

And your “No Effort” blocking… is completely unfounded. Your timing / recharge for burst and the amount of burst available to the Warrior class outweights the blocks we have.

I think what you might want to re-iterate is the amount of blocks we have that eliminate your CC (stuns), for which you open with for your “Burst”.

Not the same. Not even close.

That must be why the guardians in WvW can frequently tank and recover from absurd amounts of warrior attacks plus five other people beating on them. Dunno. I see similar arguments from plenty of guardians and yet the actual effects in game are obvious. I can’t really be kitten to get into some petty theory debate with someone on an internet forum who is ultimately just going to resort to “L2P”; that’s always how things go on these forums. We’re just going to have to play the patch and actually see. Not to be rude, but I feel that I saved us some time. Have a good day.

Well it was OP… sorry.

Eliteseraph.4970:

OP forgot to mention, and I didn’t see it anywhere else in the thread(forgive me if I missed it)

Necromancer Corrupt Boon is also going to be unblockable.

Will have to try and read the necro and dodge the attack, although that is much more easily said than done.

I don’t really know that it’s that problematic though… necros can already do this, they’ll just have a slightly easier time of doing it on guardians.

My warrior doesn’t go 30 into discipline, so you won’t have to be as afraid of him (he sucks anyways).

The signet of might change might actually be one of the more problematic ones if you rely on a lot of blocking, although that means the warrior won’t have access to other utilities… but interrupting shelter with a shield bash into eviscerate could be pretty punishing.

Cameirus.8407:

Boonhate is possibly the most stupid idea Anet have come up with yet.
I shoudl not be penalised for using my abilities to buff myself or a group.

What next? when I put conditions on an enemy they start healing?

Actually, your last point is an already existing mechanic in the game. For instance, thieves have a trait which gives them regeneration when they have enough bleed stacks added onto them.

GW1 had a variety of equivalents to boon hate, so I kind of like seeing that come back somewhat. I think it’s a better change than just directly nerfing the guardian. It’s not like everyone and their brother will be using the boon hate stuff as well.

Siv.4351:

It’s almost like anet are allergic to my money or something. Every time I get ready to drop some dosh on gems for the month they go and balls something up.

edit: silly forum ate my post attach edit.
But while its amusing to go rabid hyperbole mode with the news, its still pretty frustrating that they refuse to bring other builds/weaponsets up to the same level of usefulness and instead just focus on whats working now and constantly tweaking it. Whats working now should evolve over time as you fix and adjust other areas of the system that are completely useless, as the devs have already seen & commented on in the video. It only takes a minutes glance at the ele traitlines to see numerous ’turtle’s defense’ type traits.

I lol`d at your picture. Btw, thief didn`t get buffed, they got half reverted revealed (thank god, it was disgustingly awkward at 4s) back to its original 3s, a massive mug nerf and a good QoL buff to sword dagger. Warrior wasn`t buffed in PvE (much if at all) but have been given some highly necessary PvP and WvW buffs. These buffs won`t even be easy to use, they will require skilled play to take advantage.

Lastly, the patch hasn`t even came out yet so I don`t know why people are complaining so hard. Try the feel of the new you before flippin tabbles.

Sandra Martino.3870:

There are 2 zergs in front of each other. You run in to melee the enemy, you die. Or…. you would have ranged viability to stand in your own zerg and nuke the other zerg from a distance like everyone else.

And to the one claiming he pushes other zergs all of the time: wrong, if your not in for continuously suicidal leaps, you simply don’t :P

If your zerg is sitting back at 1200 range too afraid then push then you have an unorganized zerg and/or a bad commander and this is why I said if you want to run melee then join a decent WvW guild. Pushing trumps sitting back 9 times out of 10.

foofad.5162:

It’s gonna be a huge kick in the nuts for a lot of people. Kill Shot/Eviscerate, unblockable. Think about that for a second. You get down to 1/3rd health, Shelter expecting to block a big hit and make it worthwhile, and instead you get hit with Eviscerate and killed outright. And they’re getting a Burst cooldown reduction trait combined with.. something else I forgot. Pretty big game changer.

Sounds more like they changed warrior from a joke to something worthwhile, in my opinion. Maybe warriors won’t be free kills anymore.

Well they better make Shelter reflect or something because that’s just ridiculous. Hmm yes… reflect. There’s an idea. I call it – Sheflecter. Lol. Drinking

To be fair, you have to trait 30 into discipline, and hardly any warrior does that.

It’s funny. I’m betting 90% of the players who claim they will quit will not actually do so… and if they do, will be back in a week.

Well then I wish you the best in whatever game you decide to play or not

At your level good looking armor is scarce. Get to 60+ and more appealimg options will open up to you. If you like “plate” ish armor Vigil set is pretty nice but requires lvl 80. Cultural tier 1 now and tier 2 at 60+ may also suit you depending on your race. Different karma vendors in world also carry unique armor like Pit Fighter that you may like, although it shows alot of skin. Honestly tho the really nice stuff awaits at lvl 80. Hope that helps a bit.

Oh yeah google armor galleries and you can see all the armors available for your class/race. Good luck on your choice.

Edit:
Also to be honest, after 700 hours on my guardian and having all armors available to me I see a need to expand the armor selection. Maybe I’m just jaded but hell it would be nice to see new skins. Been mentioned, but as yet to be verified. My Stag armor has suited me for a while now but I just have that itch for something new. Perma chrome effect armor anyone? Lol

Aeolus.3615:

i would say if “you” cant kill guardians with “your” thief then “you” are playing bad, or maybe im biased becouse i can counter the class that is my main, and noticed to many faults or ways to counter them overtime, imo guardians are the most easy class to kill in wvw, the damage diference isnt that much on this game between medium and high armor, there are no tanks and they are easy to burst dow, other thing are the RC compared with conditions aplyers no matter how many conditions you remove you will have always conditions on.

ps: and if i have a mesmer or necro assisting (X vs X) its dammn fast.

The only way a thief can kill a tanky guard in a 1v1 fight is if that guard face tanks a lot of CnD/back stabs. Which makes them a bad guardian for failing to dodge the CnD. The mug/CnD is harder to dodge but still possible and you still shouldn’t eat the back stab after it. Stun break + dodge roll isn’t hard.

Outside of back stab and heart seeker when under 50% hp thief damage isn’t scary and if you don’t drop below 50% hp then heart seeker barely tickles. If a thief doesn’t back off to heal they’ll kill them selves to retal damage before they kill me and if they back off to heal then I heal as well and it ends up in a stale mate until someone else joins the fight.

ArtemisEntreri.4138:

I’ve been dropped out of no where because I didn’t see the thief come in drop me before I could react. It’s what they do. If you’ve never been quickly dropped by a thief then you’re not playing WvW at least.

If a thief drops you before you can react when your by yourself with all your cool downs up you either have a very bad build or terrible reaction time.

BlueprintLFE.2358:

If you have been playing a warrior for as long as you say you have, then you would know the last thing we need is more damage, this does not fix our serious problems. Being happy for more damage is a no brain zerker warrior mentality, wanting to not have to think just dps. Warriors have bigger problems such as a lack of sustain, big problems with conditions, limited access to vigor, very low condition damage viability and many other things that lack to make them a true contender.

Well to be honest I’d rather see things like ignoring or stripping off protection or something like that…and yes, more sustain and the like. But they’ve said before very clearly in a thread over on the warrior forums that this isn’t going to happen all at once. We’ll just have to see how the +3% damage buff will play out. I just think it shows that the balance team is trying, which is great. We need something to deal with bunkers. I’d rather see this form of boon hate than nothing. The condition duration reduction boost seems interesting to me as well.

Coming in here and running your mouth about how this patch is great for warriors and guardians can suck it, when they have ignored serious flaws and covered it up with more mouth breather damage.

All we can do is wait and see how it plays out. Anything else is really just theory. I’m happy with the effort for now, especially if it proves effective. If it turns out that this is actually OP compared to guardians until the next fix…well I guess you can learn to live on the other side for awhile, haha.

Amins.3710:

But a smart warrior, in TS/Vent, in a solid guild grp, will now shut down a guardian.

I wouldn’t worry about such a low frequency occurrence. That’s alot of ’IF’s in order for a Guardian to get shut down. It’s not like they can ignore the people you are running with either. You would be toast if you got focused in this scenario anyways. One signet won’t make or break it.

Honestly, my biggest concern here is IF I do happen to meet my nemesis in battle and it’s 1 vs. 1, what my chances are going to be … I certainly don’t want to simply feel like I should lay down and die to him every time. I just don’t buy all this doom and gloom, we aren’t the only targets out there with boons and we aren’t always the primary focus for PVP either. Playing smart will go a long way to how much of this affects you.

Zergs don’t automatically target the closest players. Facing, lack of assist function, mobility all prevent any particular individual from being focused by the whole zerg. Even a team on voice chat might have a problem focusing a single player.

I don’t believe it’s a realistic approach to try to make a profession into something it isn’t. If Guardians are poor at range and more than capable at melee BY DESIGN, there isn’t really a compelling argument to change it. If you prefer ranged capability AND the Guardian profession, you recognize the shortcomings of your choices. If being ranged in WvW is more important then the conceptual shortcomings of a profession, you have the choice to play other professions.

timidobserver.7925:

They will have to change the name of Invuln. You aren’t invuln if warriors can still affect you.

Welcome to the world of [Endure Pain], where we’ve been suffering condition damage, movement hindering conditions, and CC from the start.

This whole thread just makes me laugh. This was a long time coming to deal with all of the constant boon crap that warriors were expected to get through with basic damage. I’ve been waiting for something similar for months and quite honestly the warrior will still need help after this to make the class more viable fighting other players.

I will say the implications of all of this for WvW make me absolutely joyous, however.

It’s a gap closer and a great one which is not only spammable but also blinds. any other class would blindly take this skill if it was offered to them, lucky guardians :]