Guild Wars 2

The reality is that they just really don’t care about WvW. The year is about to end, and they will probably disappear for 2 months on holidays (which is fair enough everyone is entitled to it), and go like “we’ll have AMAZING surprises in store for WvW when we get back!!!” … inb4 GOLEM WEEK PART 2!! … zzzzz

Then straight after, more PvE stuff and THE LIVING STORY CONTINUES!

Let’s just all admit it, ANet doesn’t care about WvW. Look at all the forums, the WvW ones have like the most structured comments, feedback and propositions compared to the other modes (mostly just QQ) and as explained in this thread already. Well if there is any dev EVEN bothering to read this, I welcome any of you to deny this statement. Sorry if we just all sound negative here, but we just want to have fun in the game mode we all enjoy.

/endrant

1 for me… i used to go on and on playing wvw for hours..
Usually reset nights i would play straight for 5-6 hours nonstop and had continuous fun during that..
Las days after hot i logged to wvw 3 times..
1st time on the new BL i got bored of so many gimmicks and so few actual fighting involved after 1 hour and went pve on maguuma for some masteries.
2nd time i went ebg and did a whole 4 hours tour..
3rd time again on new BL after 20 mins i was already jumping around in circles in base camp and then i just went: know what.. kittenhis…bak to pve world.. ebg had 40 queue and i decided not to wait.

I really hated this new bl…

Shrines giving 40% speed.. rocks spawning blocking your way… wind pushing you from bridges.. buffs that makes you able to jump from olimpus and take no falling damage…mega mortars cannons… gathering event…
If we described this on the forum 3 months ago noone would ever imagine we would be talking about wvw..
Maybe someone would mention EOTM…
But never wvw

So many things could have been done..
Way easier btw… and would have made WVWers happy.
With the new BLs you manage to ruin the game mode to a lot of players..
I just dont see the reason
PvE players have the pve mode
Hybrid players have EOTM mode
Wvw players have EBG now
Tks…

BrickFurious.7169:

cillard.3986:

BrickFurious.7169:

What more PvE? I see this complaint thrown around so much, yet I highly doubt everyone means the same thing when they say it.

Your entire post is one giant disorganized complaint. You make a direct reference to the oasis event, and then you sort of complain about shrines. That’s it. That’s what you call “increasing the PvE to biblical proportions”. Holy drama batman. Next time try attacking those two issues directly instead of making me wade through the TL;DR morass that was your post.

And map layout design itself is not PvE. I don’t care how complex the map is. It is the “E” in which PvP takes place. You can complain all you want that the map is too complicated. I disagree. Whatever. But saying that making a map design more complex is “too much PvE” is ridiculous. That doesn’t even make any sense. How could you possibly measure the amount of PvE in a map’s design? What do you do, count all the cliffs? There certainly aren’t any more random mobs in the new BLs compared to the old ones, so you can’t possibly be talking about that. If the new maps make you walk farther, that’s too much PvE, is that it? For crying out loud, at least be more specific with your complaints instead of this random, generic whining.

Sometimes I wonder why I bother with this forum.

So why do you bother, if your only contribution is to attack the person and their method of complaining instead of the issues they raised. It isn’t that hard to get the gist of what that person is saying.

Because I don’t actually know what the OP is complaining about. His entire post boils down to “too much PvE” (he repeats it over and over). The gist I’m getting is that he doesn’t like the new map because it’s too complex, and he doesn’t like shrines and the oasis event. Why doesn’t he like shrines and the oasis event? Because it’s “too much PvE”. I have nothing to go off there. I can’t argue against his subjective opinion; if he doesn’t like it, he doesn’t like it, that’s fine. But he’s trying to make prognostications that the new BL will be the “death knell” of WvW.

Why do I bother? Because I’m desperately searching for substantive criticism of the new BL on this forum so I can try and figure out why many people hate it so much. I’m sure Anet is doing the same so they can sort through feedback on possible changes they should make. And this post offers none of it. This forum has been deluged with poor quality complaint posts and it’s frustrating.

I’m sorry my post struck you as rambling and incoherent. I’ll try to be more clear, however I have a suspicion that this really isn’t about “not making sense” and more about you disagree with me. Which is fine.

So, my apologies that in my frustration I exaggerated about PvE content in WvW. Let me try to be more precise. There are groups of players that define themselves as WvW focused. That is where they spend 90 percent of their gametime. Of people who identify WvW as their game focus, I cannot name one who would ask for PvE events in WvW. It’s the last thing on earth we would want. The Oasis event is the ultimate zone-wide event, and completing it has potentially extreme consequences on the WvW of the map. The laser destroys paper keep doors, takes reinforced doors to 20% and fortified doors to 50%. All without any WvW involved. How is this accompled? Through a PvE gather quest.

That to me is a huge slap in the face to WvW-dedicated players. It is the last thing on earth WvW focused players would ever desire. And if you are primarily a PvE player who casually drops into WvW for time to time, the PvE event in Oasis is mediocre and sub-par to PvE activites to be found all over the entire rest of the game. To me, allowing a PvE event to have such tide-shifting impact on WvW is fundamentally at odds with what WvW is about.

The PvE event is a big frustration. But another one is the map design that includes, in my opinion, a ton of environmental gimmicks that interfere with server vs. server combat and make me feel like I’m striving to “beat” the landscape more than I am striving to beat other players. To me, that’s a similar but different complaint than complaining about a PvE event that includes killing a bunch of monsters for a gather quest. This is about a map design that treats an map-area for WORLD vs. WORLD combat like a pve leveling map. I don’t want to run into earth barriers, or portal mazes, or environmental stealth fields, or be trying to solve the puzzle of how to get up three levels of verticality and then over a chasm in order to reach my objective. I don’t want to be “challenged” by the environment. In WvW. the environment should basically look nice and stay the frick out of my way, not asserting itself as a “character” in my WvW experience. Other PLAYERS are the only characters I want to be influencing my WvW experience.

I do understand how another person might not see these issues as distinct, but I do.

The last thing I’m critical of is the design philosophy of “breaking up zergs” why I feel like the new maps have as one objective. Now, there’s lots of different of opinion on this one, even among full time WvWers. I get that. But I believe that WvW means WORLD vs. WORLD. Large scale, raid vs. raid battles. WvW is not just SPvP on a bigger map, in my opinion. I understand that zergy combat can be frustrating due to numbers imbalances. I also argue that in the long run, the challenges of population and force sizes are part of the overall fun. Again, WvW isn’t designed to be artificially balanced matchmaking.

I’d also like to point out that if you are simply running around following a pin, not in a team or guild that WvWs and not willing to participate in voice comms, then your overall experience of large scale fighting is going to be pretty dull and frustrating. Participating in voice comms with what we on JQ call a “main force” is anything but "mindless zerging. It’s some of the most interesting and potentially tactical large scale fighting around.

My and my friends sometimes go roam in 5-mans or less, and that’s fun too. And yes, we have to avoid the main force (“or a mindless zerg, those exist too”) but that’s just part of open world WvW. I don’t actually believe that most dedicated WvWers seriously want that to change. The new BLs however go out of their way to force that change. And worse still, they do that mostly by environmental gimmicks and PvE events that periodically destroy what players have worked hard to capture and keep through a PvE laser that has no player vs. player component to it at all.

That sucks.

Now, you disagree? Totally fine. I can completely respect that. And I may not be the best writer in the world. But don’t come back and say I have no point or its all nonsensical gibberish. You just don’t agree. You might have a better argument than I do for your opinion. That’s also fine. I can accept that too. But let’s just get real here.

lol, the only place where it would be useful, and it doesn’t work.

…and it is behind paywall anyways

Some people really enjoy ppting, If this fella and his friends had a blast then all the power to them. If jdallen.5179 and his buddies want to ppt, the new bl’s are the best place at the moment as almost everyone dislikes them at the moment. If I was on BP I’d give him a raise and a friendly fondle.

If you’re looking for fights, sounds like a 10-man group was on your home bl.

Well… I guess after nearly 2 hours headbanging against those new “taking forever”-doors a 30min. garri defense is indeed a blast…

Soooo you did 2 hours of PVD for ppt and then busted some rams defending your garri, all of this while not having a single open field fight – and you had a blast.

Jayne.9251:

Snorcha.7586:

they’ve had over 2 years to correct the problems with WvW population issues, not to mentiokittenllion suggestions, but they do NOTHING to fix it. So, most people have just moved on to a different game. It’s a shame, to me it’s GW2’s greatest asset, the developers obviously do not feel the same.

Um they created server population caps, specific to WVW, just recently too. However, it will take time to show any effect. It’s already shown some signs of working. Guess folks are too impatient.

probably i am missing the working part on that new system, since what i see are just Full servers with empty WvW maps

Gonna take break from WvW as it doesn’t seem to get fixed anytime soon. See you in few months maybe.

It is impossible to get even anyone to answer in here.

Wow, an official response.

I can’t help but feel a little bit hopeful.

Us Mac users gratefully gobble up any breadcrumbs we get.

As someone that likes to solo roam I have found the new maps to be awful.
I’ve actually found the camps easier to take without having to deal with scout blind spam, but I can’t personally upgrade camps or keep them drained. Hell I can’t even +5 a camp because I apparently need to PvE to have WvW upgrades…..

Towers are also easier to solo since the lords room only contains 1 npc, but it is tedious as kitten to take one. G-catas now cost 50 supply and I can only carry 15 since they stole my +5, which leads to me playing a running simulator. Then I get to spend about half an hour cata’ing a wall that fortified without any player interaction.

The problem is there is no real point in taking a tower anymore. Towers used to offer a strategic advantage. If the defending group was camping a keeps walls instead of jumping down to fight, I could set up defensive siege and treb a keep to make them come to me. Now the towers are just pointless. I am much better off flipping the camps instead of spending the 30+ minutes it takes to flip a fully upgraded tower.

The places I was most likely to find fights are dead. No one cares about camps since supply is no longer a requirement for upgrades. I can’t fight anywhere near a keep because ridiculous PvE mechanics interfere with the fights, it doesn’t matter if it’s in my favor or theirs. It’ not fun to fight when 1 of us is getting stealthed or burning constantly.

Even taking a keep feels pointless now since only 1 keep gets a WP and it gets it as soon as it turns over. Before the change the fights over the keeps were epic, as a roamer I would spend hours prepping and draining keeps, occasionally I’d ninja them but usually I’d have to call in reinforcements and we could end up in these big hour+ long brawls. People don’t bother to defend anymore since no work goes into upgrading them and they aren’t defending WP’s they spent hours building. They just let us flip them and then back cap it after we leave.

On the flip side if something is being decently defended no one makes the effort to bust a T3 structure since we aren’t taking WP’s or busting something they put hours of work into.

The terrain is annoying to navigate, I don’t mean trying to learn the shortcuts, I’m talking about how they stuck barricades in the way, that zergs brush aside in seconds, but roamers have to take a huge detour to go around because they take too long to solo, and the other PvE gimicks like the walls that continuously pop up in front of you near the earth keep.

Oh and the dino skyhammer event was just a laughably bad idea. It clearly favors the stronger server, making it easier to k-train. I decided to give it a try solo and found that the amount of gears doesn’t scale down for the amount of people doing the event. I would have to spend at least 30 minutes PvE’ing dinos to finish it.

I will say the dino event is one of the few times I ran into enemies but the mechanics of it discourage fighting. If I kill a dino and pick up a gear I lose my weapon skills. I had 2 people show up when I had a dino at about 10%, I had to kill the dino so I wasn’t fighting 2 players and the npc at the same time, and by the time I finished killing the players the gear had already despawned. After that I had to leave the area because they came back with 5 more players.

And please don’t tell me that the new shrines are perfect for roamers. That is just a PvE event that needs to be done before a zerg hits a keep. It doesn’t take away from PPT, and it doesn’t take away from (now meaningless) supply. If you aren’t planning to hit a keep there is little reason to do it.

Tldr: WvW didn’t become “harder”, it became more tedious and soulless now that everything is on auto pilot.

Maybe they should just give siegerazor his own npc zerg and let him k-train the map. There will always be a tag up and action on the maps…. real WvW players not necessary.

Yes please, another +1 for bringing back the Alpine map.

butch.8136:

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/473/feature/10256/Guild-Wars-2-Heart-of-Thorns-One-Week-In-with-Colin-Johanson.html

They’re aware and working on it.

They were aware and working on it 3 years and 3-4 WvW lead designers ago, well at least nightcapping. The population issues were brought up during CDI’s and acknowledged, but like 99.999% of the WvW CDI suggestion nothing came of it. I would expect a “fix” in 1 year. Raids will come out in the next 3 months, the next 3 months will be dedicated to making those raids better and SPvP. 3 months after that it’s back to LS. It’s too little too late really, I don’t really see the WvW community getting reinvigorated for another round of being ignored by devs and waiting 3 years for major fixes.

They’ve wasted so much time on terrible updates. EotM was supposed to help with queued maps, of course at the time it released that wasn’t an issue at all. The Ruins of power…that are pretty useless All of the traps. The entire mastery system. Finally we have this new map that most people hate. I’m sure I missed some, but that just shows how forgettable they are. I really can’t say I have much hope for whatever nightcapping, population, or mechanics fixes they might implement, given the history it’s more scary than uplifting.

Yes

Delete EB and replace it with Desert Borderland.
Delete EOTM so we can get more people into real WvW.
Bring back the old home borders and tweak them a little bit.

All the “there’s new PvE maps” convenient forget that there’s also a new WvW map. Yet there’s pretty much zero interest in it. Not a good sign.

Uuuuugh… Saturday reset (already hate this instead of friday), roaming around our home border for an hour and all I can say this this:

Anet you’re breaking my heart.

The map is so beautiful and so detailed, yet its all being completely wasted. Thrown out the window due to a choice in design to make everything too big and poorly placed. A couple of more resets like this and WvW will be dead. Our largest border zerg went to EoTM instead within 15 minutes. We capped enemy garri, academy and that was it. That’s how freaking bad it is. EoTM! Just to find people to fight, sigh. 70+ man queue on EB, no borders queued. An enemy zerg capped our home border NW/NE towers within maybe 20 minutes of reset, guess what their status was after 1 hour? Yep, still capped. No one could even cap them back. Our two towers closest to spawn on our home border with little opposition there after they capped them. On bloody reset night.

I cant express how frustrated and disappointed I am by the new map, features, and changes to wvw since the HoT launch.

Lag has been a problem for such a long time and what do you do but increase the MAP CAP? Are you kidding me, who in the world thought this was the right step, there is nothing but lag, skill lag and dc’s on this map. The notion that this new map is designed to break up blobbing is absolutely laughable. You place incentive on defense and ppt over fights and made capturing stuff harder instead of working towards a balance, what on earth made you think this would make blobbing less of an obvious strategic choice, and since a server can have so much more on a map now, blobbing is even more effective, useful and lag inducing then ever. And of course autoupgrades, the negative effect of it is that it simply encourages more blobbing since stuff upgrades so much faster and easier and who would rather attack a fully upgraded objective when they can ktrain it and keep it paper?

For so long many of us asked you to stop adding/remove pve from wvw, and what do you do. You add more pve to the maps? For what, why? Who goes to wvw for the pve, anybody? Are all the pve maps not enough you think people just have to go into wvw to kill dinosaurs and moas?

Navigation and movement on the map is absolutely terrible, when your trying to rush somewhere to defend, catch up to your group, or run back after dying, and instead your standing there wasting time looking for a way down that wont kill you…oh hey maybe this fall wont kill me…Speed and response time is crucial in wvw, changing the map to what is essentially a giant jumping puzzle turns everything into a frustrating obstacle.

Gimmicks EVERYWHERE, why? Perma stealth in sand? Megalaser that can damage all gates controlled after doing a pve event, on and on. Whoever thought that keeping track of all this gimmicky garbage while trying to fight an even bigger blob was ever a good idea?

Its just even worse then I thought, I was a little hopeful after the last beta test that some changes would be made, but guess not. I am just incredibly disapointed everything I loved about wvw is gone, and I have literally no desire left for it.

Trying to roam lately has gotten worse, no fights on the borderlands at all and EB will always be 5:1 odds or no engagement.

Which means WvW is just another PvE map with you as the world boss event.

Hmm,

Maps unattractive to small scale → check
Class balance more out of control than ever → check

Guess you have it

Yesterday again.. we went to the new map… pvded for 20 mins.. got 2 GM done and ran back to ebg where the fights were…
So many possibilities to improve the game mode… and they use the only one that actually didnt work when they first tried and do it all over.. but this time instead of letting ppl choose rather to play or not EOTM.. you just dont have a choice anymore…
Great job

Anet priority is spend 90% of time and energy on their precious pve content and because they think everyone should enjoy it as much as they do, they gate the hell out of it to force us to stay their longer. Are we really surprised wvw is treated like anything other than an afterthought?

RlyOsim.2497:

FYI for people that are interested:

AFAIK the exploit was people using WvW tournament tickets to buy Wexp consumables (thimbles, kegs, that sort of thing) and speed leveling the hero points.

So basically using the currency as intended? Heaven help me, my patience for Anet and their gold sinks and ridiculous gating is worn paper thin.

selan.8354:

1 day in pve in that glider/ mastery hell was enough for me…

Yeah.

lol yeah if heroic points would be easier for wvw players to obtain…. i actually did pve and got my chronomancer…..now alll my alts have to do the same thing? hell no i play gw2 for wvw and 1 day in pve in that glider/ mastery hell was enough for me…

please enable the notary soon and maybe make it a bit fairer. im happy to pay more badges…..but i want my hero points

I wonder why wvw players would feel the need to exploit their heroic points. Really makes you wonder. /sarcasm

Fuzzion.2504:

the good thing is that they pushed the roamers to EB. Which isnt bad.

They pushed everyone to EB

I was born and raised in bay. Now it is gone. Anet made me homeless.