R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
I think it’s the structure of the story. Zhaitan never makes an appearance for himself, and thereby blunts any investment in him. This was done to create mystery, but the mystery culminates in one of the most rapid and underwhelming sequences the game has to offer, spoiling the whole work. Then add in that you mentor aside, the only characters that you can really create an attachment to are in the first two story arcs, and very few of those put in an appearance later, AND you could very well miss the arc where they do so. Trahearne I don’t blame so much- the voice-acting was subpar, and he wasn’t particularly likeable later on, but that’s the worst I can say of him. This is a bit of a sidetrack, but I honestly believe that the Trahearne hate is just from a relatively (gameplay speaking) useless character being perceived to be better rewarded than the player, in a community that has developed a knee-jerk reaction to such (Kormir and, to a lesser extent, Gwen).
@Darkbattlemage The difference with Abaddon is that he did directly attack a character you had a reason to be invested in, and there was another villain who was rather personal and engaging for about three-fourths of the storyline. Zhaitan’s lieutenants are nowhere near on par with Varesh Ossa.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
(edited by Aaron Ansari.1604)
I don’t know that upset is the right term- my argument, anyway, is that he doesn’t make for a compelling or interesting villain/antagonist. Zhaitan, as he was portrayed, was simply an obstacle to surmount, which is an iconic theme in many hero stories, but has never really grabbed me. I like feeling personally attached to both heroes and villains, and like my character has a stake in what is occurring, and neither of those things factored much into the storyline. But I’m not exactly upset, because I kept up with the pre-release, and I knew picking the game up that that was how it was going to be. I suppose the over-all point, if one can be said to exist, is that it would be nice if future Elder Dragons have that personal aspect. That, and the people trying to refute Teulius weren’t making strong arguments.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
I agree with Teulius, one hundred percent- on the Zhaitan stuff, anyway. I’ve never played WoW, so when someone says ‘lich’ I think ‘Khilbron.’
Zhaitan is an uncompelling villain. He has no character, no personality, no flavor to him, aside from the small and frankly unreliable snippets you can gleam from his minions. Only the sylvari character has any real personal reason to want Zhaitan destroyed, and that’s only in the sense of “It’s my destiny to do this.” There’s nothing that makes you want to kill him (or secretly root for him); he’s a blank slate. I understand that’s what ANet intended, to a certain degree, but they overshot. A storm only has emotional impact when it’s pounding at your door. If you chase it down across half a continent to where you know kitten well you’ll find it, it’s not at all the same.
And before you all pipe up again about Claw Island or threats to the world, I’d like to point out that you are barking up the wrong tree. Those two bits are about risen, not Zhaitan, and the two are not compatible. He might be giving the commands, but he’s never there himself, taking part. He shares logical guilt, but not the emotional kind, and it is from the later that any chance of a compelling character would have arose. Back to the Claw Island example, as far as your mentor’s death is concerned, I felt a fair bit of satisfaction taking out Blightghast (and even that was eclipsed by the feeling of taking out my first dragon). When I was fighting Zhaitan, on the other hand, Tybalt never even crossed my mind. The personal connection simply is not there.
As for the whole “threat to the world” bit, that is pretty much your character’s driving motivation- and it is not only about the world, not Zhaitan, but it is also highly impersonal. It’s about saving people you haven’t met, and only care about because you’re a good person, from a undefined threat that they may or may not ever be placed in. People have died who you never knew, and in fact never knew existed. The enemy is one you have never met before, who may or may not do great harm without your direct involvement, and who themselves have only abstract reasons for fighting. Zhaitan himself is a name, then a dragon who never really gets close to you, then a target for a half-dozen cannons, one of which you happen to be in a place to man, and then a corpse. It’s all abstract, impersonal, and uncompelling, and again, it’s about the world, not Zhaitan. If Zhaitan had flown off never to be heard from again, if the risen had ceased their assault and pulled back within Orr’s boundaries, if Zhaitan had been captured and held where he could do no harm, it would have been all the same to our characters, because the world would be safe. I do love this game, but it is not for the villains.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
I got a look at it myself. She isn’t coughing, she’s crying. Then she staggers like she’s stunned, while the cloud rises around her feet, and then they both vanish.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
To expand on Tuomir’s statement, we only see them in far southern Cantha, in the lair of a corrupted forest spirit. The vampires kill themselves, in the process draining the entirety of their victims “health” or “energy” (in lore terms, probably different ways of expressing that they drain vital energy.)
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
GW2 started in 1325. As of Dragon Bash/Sky Pirates we were officially 1326, so we’re probably still in that year, which would put Jennah’s ascension at 1316.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
Don’t know. Don’t know. Hinted to be a rebellion of some sort. Guild Wars: Nightfall is the best place to learn about Elona before Joko’s takeover, and the Nightfall Manuscripts (player manual) is still available on the GW1 website. Don’t know. No reason for either of those races to be there, but again, don’t know.
I personally have some speculation about Joko’s origins, if you would like to hear them, but they’re just that: speculation.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
That golem was part of the Caudecus’s Manor story mode. Without spoiling too much, it was built by Uzolan. As sorta mentioned by Lutinz, these new ‘watchwork’ creatures are probably based on his designs.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
That’s duality, not mirrors. I’m not disagreeing with you that the connection exists, I’m just stating that Lady Wi’s remark could well be linked to the only place where we see mirrors and Lyssa linked together.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
Not necessarily. To the best of my knowledge, there is no other direct connection, save for that lake.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
I always thought of it as an allusion to the Mirror of Lyss.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
“Coming close to death transforms them, causing them to shape-shift out of religious frenzy; in such a state, they are even more difficult to destroy. "
That is from the krait blog post ANet released a few months before launch. They remembered the shapeshifting, and had expanded the lore a bit, so we can’t just wave it away as something they forgot or changed their mind about. They just never implemented it, for Abaddon knows what reason.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
That’s the symbol of Kryta, and specifically the royal family. Might just mean that they’re human goods.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
Assuming all the chairs are in fact filled, my guess would be Riel. The Order of Whispers got an observer into the Captain’s Council very early in its history, and I doubt they would’ve given the spot up.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
The whole concept of being “allowed” to adopt centers on the idea of certification and identity. I don’t think any Tyrian government is at that level of burdensome paperwork.
Nor do I think anyone would be opposed to sylvari adopting, as a sylvari runs one of the two orphanages we see in-game.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
I haven’t been to the Cursed Shore in a long time, so I haven’t seen what you’re talking about for myself, but if it is the same as the towers in Arah (and the Straits of Devastation), that would make it a risen anti-air cannon.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
Agreed. There are shipwrecks just about anywhere land meets or has ever meet sea in GW2, including in some exceedingly unlikely places. They’re just there to be there.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
To be honest, I don’t think Tyrian human royalty have surnames. We’ve so far encountered or heard mentioned twelve members of the various royal families (Doric, Mazdak, Zoran, Reza, Jadon, Adelbern, Rurik, Salma, Baede, Emilane, Edair, and Jennah), and not once is there a second name associated with any of them. Furthermore, at one point in the Sea of Sorrows when the royal line as a whole is referenced directly- a perfect time to use the surname if it existed- it is called the “Salmaic dynasty.”
EDIT: Whoops, forgot about Thorn. Still, my point (mostly) stands.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
Minor correction: when human priests summon forth souls, there is indeed a portal. Still, that is likely linked to Grenth’s power, and not the priest’s.
Also, norn havrouns are indeed able to take other people with them through a portal into the Mists. Although, again, this would likely be power from a Spirit of the Wild and not the havroun’s own.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
Also, Getefix, we don’t know for a fact that that is the case. Sea of Sorrows confirmed something I had suspected for a while now- the loss of free will associated with becoming a dragon minion does not translate into loss of personality. It just reshuffles priorities, twisting one into a fanatical follower of whichever dragon. For the Sons of Svanir, that would be very little change. Look at the bosses in the Honor of the Waves- they all have icebrood models, but their personalities would not be out of place among non-corrupted Svanir, and although they’re all corrupted, they exhibit different methodologies and goals- all for the service of Jormag, but different all the same. Given this uniqueness of personality, and their ability to act accordingly, I could easily see icebrood Sons killing icebrood female norn.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
1.) He’s an Elder Dragon. Creating a kittenload of other things to fight for them is their modus operandi.
2.) It’s possible there were multiple Mouths of Zhaitan; however, I like to believe that the one you fight in Arah was created to replace the one you killed in the personal story.
3.) Logan saves Rytlock’s life while they’re storming the Citadel of Flame. Logan and Rytlock then find Zojja and talk her around, while Caithe does the same with Eir.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
Is this a request to have Vizu appear in Guild Wars 2?
That is certainly possible… if we go to Cantha. It’d make no sense to have her appear in the game as we currently know it, since her spirit was housed in Tahnnakai Temple.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
Interesting… I believe it may be a link to the personal story. One of the pre-Orr storylines has you dealing with a risen mesmer impersonating a pact officer. You find the real officer’s corpse at the same location at which you discovered this event.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
In any event, Duncan wasn’t after the corpse. He was said to be undertaking the ritual when we faced him, and I don’t remember anything that looked like pieces of the Great Destroyer in his chamber.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
Not quite.
Usoku himself is never once mentioned in the game, except for the exotic and Ascended gear items; all we know from the game itself is that since Orr rose no one has heard of Cantha and that the tengu were the last to leave, passing by a risen Orr. Cobiah went to Cantha before Orr rose. No contradictions made to either the game nor the Movement of the World in this.
Not true. There’s a dialogue in Divinity’s Reach, in the plaza aside the Kormir High Road, that involves the Canthan population of DR trying to stay true to their roots. One of the lines is something like “We honor Emperor Usoku, and the emperors who came after, whose names we do not know.”
EDIT: “Emperor Usoku is the last emperor of Cantha whose name we know.” The same scholar also says “Around 200 years ago, trade simply stopped.”
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
(edited by Aaron Ansari.1604)
His wife was commander of the Ebon Vanguard, and leader, founder, and protector of the last holdout of the kingdom of Ascalon. Whatever Kieran did right, he was never such an icon.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
We know Blood’s capital is Blood Citadel. The Molten Alliance prisoners were sent there.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
Nope. One more GW1 character whose fate is not explained…
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
There is a sylvari influence in the area, though, actively fighting the Brand. At the very least we can see it manifested as those turrets at the glen’s mouth that fire on the nearby Branded humans.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
The quote you’re remembering: “I’ve heard of you lot. Refugees from Lion’s Arch, hiding up there in the mountains with salvaged books and things. Odds and ends.”
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
Presumably, the seas have cleared somewhat due to attrition after Zhaitan’s death… and keep in mind, even at the height of their power, the Risen were never able to cut off trade. A greater obstacle is the Shark’s Teeth Archipelago. The bridges across it should cut off all access by ship to the Sea of Elon.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
(edited by Aaron Ansari.1604)
I stand by what I said earlier- that he is probably in a mausoleum, not a grave. He’s high enough in rank and profile to merit it, without being some symbol that the people need to be able to visit.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
Like I said, there were a couple odd aberrations in the text. The few bits we get about Cantha in Guild Wars 2 make it clear that no one has been there since Usoku’s reign. Unless he ruled for over 90 years (and Kisu ruled for a very long time, so he probably wasn’t a young man when he took the throne), the book is mistaken. Since the trip to Cantha is such an utterly negligible part of the story, and since the important elements would have required so much research of their own, I’m guessing that Ree tossed in a random port to pick up luxury goods without distracting from the work on the book to consider the full ramifications thereof… though, as always, I would prefer I response from the devs themselves over my speculation about them.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
I dunno… there are a couple points in the book- not many, but a couple- that seem to contradict the more obscure corners of Guild Wars history… and in the context of Lion’s Arch shortly after Orr’s rise, the status of Cantha’s trade with the outside world might qualify. I think I’d chalk this up as oversight. After all, it’s not really part of the plot, just thrown in to give Cobiah’s ship a reason to be sailing.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
@Konig I’m not arguing that Uncategorized is in the future- personally I feel it’s most likely very recent past- just that what McGough has provided us with does not allow us to write off any possibility that it might be in the future.
@Stooperdale It’s actually quite a bit larger than Vexa’s Lab, and that’s just the portions we can reach. Parts of the structure are inaccessible, and there’s another city cube off in the distance. The two complexes together make up something far larger than any asuran lab- or city- we’ve yet seen in the game.
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The “there” that would still be referring to the other fractals. As for the destroyer connection… I really, really don’t like saying it, but you’re probably right that it’s there. That doesn’t mean post-GW1 though. We know dragons at least have the potential to corrupt while slumbering, and Primordus was hibernating under the mountains that make the north-west corner of the human kingdom. I can’t see how the grawl could get human captives to sacrifice if it was post GW1.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
First, I’d like to rather belatedly thank Scott McGough for taking the time to share his insights with us. It’s always exciting to see a dev post in our little corner of the forums.
That said:
it does not represent a potential future for Rata Sum. All of the other fractals represent discrete sections of the past
He never stated that Uncategorized happened in the past, just that it’s not a future Rata Sum- and seeing as it’s no Rata Sum at all, it could still be in the future.
As for the others, I believe the same interview that told us about the Colossus mentioned that Urban Battleground is an alternate version of the Searing- I’ll have to go listen to it again. Personally, I believe that the Aquatic Ruins represent a sunken and krait infested part of Istan, which would probably be recent. I really like the idea that Snowblind is during Jormag’s initial rampage (and really want to know why the shaman is named Lornarr!), and agree that Underground must be recent. Volcanic and Swampland, though… those two are truly fascinating puzzles. The only place we see grawl and volcanoes together is to the north of Ascalon, so I’d tentatively put that one sometime before GW1, when that area was part of the human kingdom. Or, alternatively, in the Blazeridge Mountains- the name suggests they’re either volcanic or prone to wildfires. Swampland I haven’t seen much of, as I’ve never been in a group that’s managed to complete it, but a norn in a swamp suggests it’s either after Jormag’s rise, in the Woodland Cascades, or belonging to some far-off forgotten time when norn lived in more tropical climes.
EDIT: Found the interview. McGough described the Urban Battleground as a “representation” and “recreation” of the Searing.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
(edited by Aaron Ansari.1604)
As far as Destiny’s Edge goes, I’m sure we’ll get more history on Eir and Rytlock through Braham’s and Rox’s storylines.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
There are plenty of pirate ghosts in the game, and the ones in the Fawcett’s Bounty puzzle are human, asura, norn, and charr. There are also charr spirits in southeaster Iron Marches, though I don’t know that I’d call those ghosts. Oola’s spirit/ghost is in her lab in Metrica. There’s a norn ghost in southwest Maelstrom, and a ghostly norn crew in southeast Cursed Shore. And there are several jotun ghosts at their old kennings.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
This doesn’t shoot your theory down at all, but I just wanted to mention: the name “Zhaitan” definitely isn’t just a word the races made up. Risen use it all the time, even those who could never have heard the name in life.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
Sorry to disappoint, I know you wanted Konig, but…
The Durmand Priory was founded in 1105. Lion’s Arch flooded in 1219. You cannot say that because the Order decided the Priory was the best tool for preserving human history after it had been around for a hundred years, they must have had some hand in founding it.
Interesting fact, though- in GW1 we see Durmand attracting a small cadre of students, which I always thought of as the beginning of the Priory. One of those students was a member of the Order of Whispers.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
No, they’re west of the D’Alessio Seaboard, in what used to be southern Kessex Peak. Garrenhof is that village where Dinas hid on the western edge of D’Alessio, and the tengu do not extend that far.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
We ARE dealing with magic here- the Aetherblades stole their airships from the Pact, who were stated to use asuran magitech in their construction. As for the motive, just because the player doesn’t know it doesn’t mean there isn’t one- it’s implied at this point that an individual is running around playing matchmaker between these groups, and that we’ll find out why in the future, which you’d know if you had read this thread.
Now, can you please NEVER again replace all of your punctuation with dashes? Reading that was the most painful thing I’ve done in months.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
Most of the romantic dialogues throughout the Grove are between a male and a female. The misconception comes of ANet very rarely drawing attention to romantic relationships, and Caithe/Faolain is a very high-profile exception.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
@Lutinz, she is called captain a couple times. However, she may only be captain of one of the airships, and answer to an admiral of sorts. If that is the case, I bet that’s who Scarlet is. If not, then Scarlet could just as easily be the asura heading the Inquest side of the alliance as the personal nemesis.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
There’s another one, in a cave filled with very large hylek. They apparently call it Itlaocol. Water is coming out of it, and seems to be crystallizing.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
As Zaxares said, krewes aren’t really a drain on your character’s time. They get together to do a job and then break apart again. Your membership in an order might keep you too busy to join a krewe for a while, but that wouldn’t be a particular impediment to your asura.
For the charr, it’s more of a special assignment than a leave of absence. Your character is more or less formally handed over to one of the orders in the interest of strengthening ties between the order and the Black Citadel. Rytlock makes it pretty clear that you maintain your rank in the legions, but won’t be answering to them unless recalled, thus clearing up the conflicting chains of command. I imagine a similar situation might be possible among the human military organizations- you see a lot of human Vigil characters later on that at the start of the story were Seraph. Either they’re on a similar arrangement, or the Seraph are losing some of their best and brightest.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
Honestly, I’m surprised that other people are surprised that we haven’t seen the other dragons. Bubbles almost certainly isn’t within our map of Tyria, Primordus, Jormag, and even Kralkatorrik may not be either, and we don’t even know if Mordremoth is awake yet. The world of Tyria is a very big place, and the continent of Tyria isn’t a particularly large portion of it.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
They’re isolationist, but they recognize the value of and actively seek out trade with other races, and even seem to have made something of a name for themselves as shrewd bargainers. As this bazaar sounds like a trade festival, it’d be right up their alley.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.