He has every right to blame his team tbh. But it seem you don’t even have the minimum attention span or common sense to watch the full vod before accusing him of just simple being a typical forum warrior. Keep in mind, when top players make forum posts, they’re usually about matter which affect the community as a whole and they are in a way representatives of us, the lower tiers players. As many had stated here, this is not baseless complains, many players are experiencing this daily and if anet really have a working system then no one has to 1v2 almost every game to win +5 MMR and lose -20 for incompetent teammates
He does have a point however, since the same is happening in both sides. I could be in the opposite team, and complain about my teammates constantly chasing one guy, hopefully we ended up to a close score because we did good on 2v4. If i manage to win 1v2/3 , why wouldn’t opponents win 2v4 ?
You can consider the problem in both ways : one one game, i did play thief and i constantly had 3 players chasing me. Is it me playing smart or me abusing the fact that opponents are low experienced ?
Nethertheless, i totally agree with OP, there are still too many players that do not know how to play on capture point, but it was already the case several months ago..
PvP needs a proper tutorial. We can’t expect players to learn the game in hotjoin or asking other players.
The issue is that the meta build nowadays are good substitutes for tutorial.
Back in time, builds were either sustain with few damage, either big damage with few sustain, so you had to be careful, considering threats, knowing when to escape a lost fight,.. A thief with no daggers against 5 zerkers will understand how to play capture points.
Todays, builds are too OP in every domain, and engaging in a fight spamming buffs/conditions at same ( you get the point) isn’t really helpful to me.
If i was honest, i think people are very rude. The system itself isn’t so bad, there are entertaining rewards, correct system ( finally we have a form of leaderboard in game, and points indicated), there aren’t so many dc’s/afk ( i recall having one every 3rd match back in time).
The only issue, although it’s pretty big, is the class balance with leads to matchmaking problem and map ( legacy of foefire) problem.
I have the same, currently rank 50 something on leaderboards.
That’s pretty much normal then. I remember the same happening in hero battles in Guild Wars 1 : when i was #20 or so, i would wait quite long in order to get an opponent, and most of the time i would either get +2 points for a win/ – 15 points for a lose. The same happened in GvG, and i hardly recall many people complaining at the system.
Why not, but that’s a short term solution, it isn’t solving the real issue which is players not knowing how to play on capture points. Unfortunately, i am convinced that meta builds ( starting with hambow) aren’t making you learn basics at all.
Beginners/Average players with thieves and mesmers are probably going to get facerolled most of their matchs. Beginners/Average players with guards, wars and eles playing exactly the same way are probably going to win 50% of their games, and that’s the issue.
I see 5 bad games,
If your team can legitimately score 300 it means that there were some match ups your team lost that could of been addressed. (hypothetically)
Literally 1-2 rotations or fights change 300-500 loss into a win.
Not necessarly, there is also the case of what i would call " biaised matchs ", typically when you have one team with a very poor setup( i.e thief thief mesmer engineer) against a solid one ( guard guard warrior ele).
Several times, i do tell my teammates to take literraly 0 risk and play on 2 points, leaving the third to our opponents. The match usually ends into a 500-200/250, but if we try to be honest, it would be the same as a 500-20. This is fairly easily done on maps such as legacy of foefire or khylo, like Velimere said
They didnt know what made GW2 fun and now we are at a point where veterans dont want to play it because its not the same game they enjoyed playing. New players dont love it because of spam and clutter effects they dont understand. Then to top it off no one like perma cheese which has been thief, DH, mesmer since HOT.
This is arguable. I am not a huge fan of new maps, or meta builds, however i like posting out tactics in order to adapt and try to make the team do the best. The real issue to me is that, after few years, i still have to deal with unexpected attitudes and people not reading chat.
Typically what happened my last placing matchs :
- one game i typed twice " We have no choice than pushing lord " and spammed on it, we ended up being 3 there, with 2 guys standing on points although we had no way of winning on points
- i drawed on map and ping spammed to go to close point, one mate went to mid, our thief went to solo svanir and died in exactly 2 seconds, while i was dying on that close point..
I could bring a lot of similar examples, but it really gets old when it’s still the same happening along years, and i’m not sure the season system does really help..
What PvP needs is a TUTORIAL.
PvE has a tutorial, WvW has a tutorial. PVP HAS NO TUTORIAL.
the problem you cannot do fully tutorial for every scenario as there are too many variant
1. your build
2. your skill lvl
3. allies build
4. allies skill lvl
5. enemy build
6. enemy skill lvl
7. first rotation
8. outcome
9. second rotation
10. and so on …. till 15 min ends
you might do some popup quiz like if 1 in close and 2 on mid and enemy rush to mid where should you go?….. LOLif you play dmg dealer, your enemy is winning mid and you have close where should you go
You’re already going in details that can be debated roughly since there sometimes isn’t a decision much better than an other. Point is to make a quick guide about what loses games too easily. Typically, chasing people off point happens too frequently.
It’s kind of the same debate in a football game when you’re winning 2-0 at the 70’ mark. Should you play defensive and secure the score, or keep attacking ? I think first option is usually better in solo queue..
Gonna had 3 points to my previous list :
- Don’t go for lord at 150 points, and especially when you’re not clearly winning. Doing this is about leaving your team 4v5 on other points, while the 5v5 is already not going well, and ends up to a quick lose 95% of the time
- Don’t engage a 1v1 you cannot win, or that you already lost : you might leave your team at 4v4, but you’re still giving +5 pts to the enemy and making it eventually 4v5 for a few seconds
- Read the chat : it’s really, really, annoying when you post about the 2 steps above and you’re completly ignored
I think players should play solo queue believing no one in your team will win a 1v1. This way, it’s much more interesting and you play better as a team
The real issue is these condi/sustain builds, or 3 DH setups, that make you believe you know how to rotate but you don’t really do.. It’s not really fun when you’re in gold division, where your teammates ( although not very experienced sometimes) do their best, but end up getting facerolled by people who do not know how to rotate neither, but got some OP build..
That being said, besides rotation, i think what should be explained is :
- Not chasing players off points when you’re holding it
- Not trying to kill svanir/chieftain alone
- Doing the maths : when you have 470-380, camping close is usually enough if it’s going badly on other points for example
Agree with last paragraph, there lacks true rewards for veterans. But i believe at this state only in-game tournaments, or titles showing how many tournaments matchs you won, could motivate these players.
About people playing for the win, i’m gonna keep the idea that seasons are the problem. You are time limited, so basically people get mad when they get few loses in a row.
About the pip system, i do think it’s a good system. It gets too complicated deciding what is a blow out or a close game. I had games on legacy of foefire where we would keep 2 points, leaving opponents the third. They would never manage to cap our points, and try a lord rush. The match ends into a 500-400, but it’s like winning 500-100 with all due respect.
That’s the thing we all agree on, PvP lacks some kind of exclusive rewards for PvP only players. Daily/weekly tournaments in game with associated rewards/ladder points are to me the only solution at this state..
PvP has a lot of potential in all fairness, but the issue lies in the season system, like every game having it. It will be fun for a big part of players, but an other part won’t really enjoy having to deal with all solo queue issues every 2 months.
There lacks a mixed system between old ladder and actual pip system, and in game tournaments that would give best participants more pips.
I think there are way too many complaints about everything, it sounds like " if i’m losing, then there has to be some issue with xx ". You gotta consider games upon big number, not about having 1 crap player on 1 single game.
Ruby is the hardest league for sure, but alternatively, you can imagine player’s skills isn’t the same inside the division itself : i.e tier 1 ruby will be less good than tier 6. Matchs are way more closes now than in season1, i think the real issue is simple one thing : Legacy of foefire
People will say i’m annoying always saying this, but really if we take a close look :
- this map gets most votes usually
- this map is almost entirely about builds
- this map can be decided by first fight : most times my team wiped mid in 4 seconds, it ended in 500-10. Note, this isn’t the case when your team is able to survive a bit
- lord rushs : biggest frustration i’ve ever experienced in pvp, i won’t talk about this
From my experience, this is the only map where i get one sided and non fun matchs
Solo que is a gamble and the MMR system is designed to keep you at a 50/50 win rate.
The real issue is totally unfair loses. I have no problem having 6 loses believing my team did a good job, or because we hardly could do better. However, most matchs on legacy of foefire are really frustrating. Lord rushs you cannot prevent, impossible to come back, setups you cannot beat or outplay,..
This map is for sure 50/50 designed. Other maps are way more tactical, and you can have bigger ratios
I am personnaly happy with season 2, since it is way better than season 1 and that’s all it is about since it can’t be perfect.
I felt a progression during all my travel through divisions( i.e players in amber/emerald weren’t really good, which wasn’t the case in s1 where i could face literraly anyone), and chain wins/chain loses aren’t that big( they exist, but there’s lot of exxageration). I haven’t seen any 4v5 or people afking quickly( i remember year ago maybe 1 out 3 matchs were like that), so that’s really good
The map would be interesting in ranked right now, since it would offer a way for people to beat certain setups they would get facerolled to 500-100 on foefire. I think enough fixes were made in the past to have less frustrating experiences (due to builds pulling on glass)
Or alternatively, easier ideas :
- make vote 2 maps instead of 3, so legacy of foefire happens much less : this map is the one where most blowouts and impossible come backs do happen, but people don’t really seem to notice it. Furthermore, when your team gets facerolled mid, you can’t make any strategy to come back against an opponent doing double point hold
- make seasons last longer, so there won’t be complaints about having to do all this again every 3 months
There should be a look at map vote and legacy of foefire. Temple and khylo almost never appear, yet they’re probably the 2 most tactical..
I’m pretty sure a big part of forum complaints lie to legacy of foefire, since this map revovles mostly about the team setup + the fact you can’tprevent some lord rushs( i.e solo vs premade gives disadvantage)
The real issue with this i had this season is about dealing with double engis on legacy of foefire, it’s really a pain and not so fun. Furthermore, when these 2 engis are asuras, with 1 necro and/or mesmer aside, you can’t see anything and it’s hard as a bunker, sometimes i end up spamming skills randomly to do better job
I’ve has a very long winning streak, now i start losing some matchs but it doesn’t really matter since they’re mostly fair . In all honesty, the common point to unfair situations was legacy of foefire map
This map is too one-sided in my opinion. It’s easy to get back on first leagues, but past ruby, it is way too easy to get steamrolled 500-10 to certain setups, where you get chain kded/dazed to death( that’s exxagerate, but you get the point), and furthermore, you can’t prevent lord rushs sometimes. Also, due to bunker/condi builds, it’s hard to get back against players from same level, it’s fairly easy to tank a point 1v2 for a few time
-no penalty for leaving early
That’s the only issue, and also the reason why hotjoin isn’t fun, and why snowball wasn’t fun neither…
It’s hard to put a tactic and to set up serious play when you have players acting like " i died, i’m leaving this game " These modes have a lot of potential and are themselves quite fun, but players not trying or giving up too quickly are ruining the fun of other players.
Since you can’t fix players behaviour generally( even if you put some dishonor, people will still leave), games like lunatic inquisition would be better
You’re right, but the real issue with thief is that it’s hard to have impact on a solo queue game with average players , plus it’s still fairly easy to die considering actual meta.
When you get good teammates( whatever setup is, except worst scenario), playing thief is good. When you get a terrible setup + teammates not willing to read chat, i feel like being quite useless as a thief, since i can’t have any decisive impact on a game( already had 1v2 wins on far while whole team suiciding in DH traps 4v3)
It’s easy to stay bad when broken builds and stupid classes carry you to victory.
An other big issue( if not major) with this is legacy of foefire map in my opinion. When you got 5 unkillable builds running around spamming conditions( i’m obviously exaggerating but you get the idea), you cannot do anything with an average setup in solo queue. Even if, usually 1 mistake leads to a lose and you cannot prevent a lord rush at 350, i had countless games where we were leading 300-150 and ended up 320-550..
You got treb on khylo, buffs on temple, bosses + larger map on forest. Maybe it’s time to bring back skyhammer and orb running map to offer other possibilities to win for teams who simply cannot even win 5v4 of those builds..
Dh problem isn’t the traps, it is more likely dealing at same with 2 of them + bunker mesmer + necro spamming conditions..
An other issue also is when one of your teammates is down in traps 1v1, if you rez the teammate you down instantly, if you down the guardian, you gotta expect him to die before the teammate. Last choice is to trigger traps, rez the teammate without dying, which is fairly hard..
I get the point of the OP, but it’s like asking to remove all the internet since you could find builds anywhere actually..
It’s quite annoying that everyone is running the same build, but to me, the problem is more likely the build itself, and the lack of easy counterplay
The meta is the problem… I did lose one match earlier which was entirely my fault on tactic, but several others were because of players which refused to read tactics in chat, tactics which were obviously made because we had a bad team setup..
The real issue is that, a" beginner" running a zero risk build will do better than a "beginner " running a zerker/weak build, but on the end both do not know how to play on a capture point map. Worse, i’m not sure the player on the second case will learn really quick the basics of the capture point game..
Well, indeed it might be better to show probabilities when the match starts. Like :
- Win with more than 150 pts difference= +2 pips
- Lose with less than 200 pts = 0 pips
This also might give realistic objectives when you know you cannot win due to setups ( i.e legacy of foefire vs condi/bunkers, having yourself 4 zerkers). If you’re losing 450-270, you would aim for 300 and not 500, and it should be better ( also opponents should care of not letting you get 300 for extra pip,etc…)
For instance today i ran far fought 2 revs and downed 1 and we won mid and home and i died eventually.
2 people from mid ran home because 1 person ran there and im coming of respawn. This is a terrible play by the 2 since only 1 head is at home. We kill the person and they continue onto beast. We lose mid and from that point lost the match.
Pushing far is a good theme to debate on, it depends situations, but generally in solo queue it’s not such a good idea, since it revolves only on the opponent not being smart, plus on your team being able to deal with a 4v3 or 3v3 on mid.
I’ve played countless of solo games, on average this works better than expected, especially on a thief since you will generally have 2 players chasing you, but this isn’t a tactic to rely on, especially in the actual meta, where i have seen several times one DH guardian winning a 1v3, or similar situations. I can deal with meta builds, but i don’t know if my teammates can too
I feel sometimes the same as the OP, same jokes happening quite often, especially on foefire lord, or on khylo with the treb
Sure, but you know it’s not really fun when you get 5 meta builds together against 4 dps on legacy of foefire in solo queue..
In the very old meta, people were running in circle, had to use key skills in time since they had no damage.. Now you get players running in circle, spamming buffs and conditions at same PLUS you can’t prevent them from rushing lord at 350..
I mean, skyhammer was removed from rotation because some builds took advantage of it. The same is kinda happening on legacy of foefire right now..
(edited by Abazigal.3679)
Yes, it’s not ideal that not everyone can run their favourite class, but srsly: It’s ranked and ppl should be able to play at least 2 different builds or maybe just learn a build that works in the current meta. It’s IMHO selfish to just insist on playing a certain build just because you like it or you think it works.
Yes, but i have had many games in this meta where people would survive/ kill because they’re running some OP build, but have no idea how to play on capture points and the game ends like in a no sense way
Probably 75% of my loses in this meta are because of players taking really poor decision, although i’m trying to give advices in the chat. Last game from 10 minutes ago : 2 necros camping our close point. Logic says play the other 2 point 5v3 and gg, but pratic shows that, all the game, you get people going 1v2 and dying
Average player doesn’t know how to play on capture points, and especially how to play safe. That’s probably an issue today, because of how forgiveable builds are..
I mean, when you’re winning 350-220 on foefire, why would you risk pushing lord ??
When you’re posting 4 times " get their treb, don’t suicide middle", why do people ignore treb and do fight mid ??? When you’re 480-480 2 points to one, why would you go to their point ??
I’ve played enough solo queue games to know builds( except in some extreme cases) are details, usually players behaviours are mostly responsible for the outcome of the game
My problem with the actual meta is that it gets too hard to play with less experienced players… Some matchs are like 1 mistake = lose a won match( typically earlier, someone left mid to die on far point, and it did cost us the game since we never managed to get back after).
This could happen on a team vs team perspective, but shouldn’t on a solo vs solo..Meta builds should involve a bit more risk, especially regarding the bunker mesmer
Let’s say it’s easier concerning teammates. This is understandable since probably 60%( 30% being in amber) of players from solo queue are in emerald, so basically you can be teamed with anyone against anyone..
My last 3 foefire games, i had game lords( leave mid abandonned to suicide close or far, push lord at 320-250 and lose the game) while opponents had 5 people that could keep points.
Emerald is basically random arena, and sapphire should be full of players that at least know the basics, so it’s obviously " easier "
you forgot
Do Not fight tanky individuals standing on points capped in their favor
I have seen bunker mesmers who are holding their home point get pushed by a necro or scrapper or something only to waste time and cause us to lose fights outnumbered. Easy mistake to fix.
I’ve played soloQ for a very long time, and it’s probably the biggest issue in solo queue. Builds themselves are detail, losing a fight 3v3 because 3 thieves vs 3 DH is a game fact.
There is someone sitting on the far point, someone from your team goes there to 1v1. This is a very bad strategy on solo queue, except if you’re 100% sure you will kill the player there within 30 seconds, because this implies you rely on your other 4 players to beat the other 4 = you have no impact on the big fight, and further more no impact on the game if you don’t win the 1v1..
An other major issue, that is pretty irritating me, is on legacy of foefire. A common mistake is people trying to be heroes and start solo going for lord at 340. At 340, this is a good strategy if you’re starting to lose( tri-capped ), but unfortunately, many times, the team is winning, end up being 5v4 on other points, get rolled, and end up losing the match. ( Also many times, the player will troll you on ignore mode)
My point in solo queue is to play the least risky way. A classic situation, again on legacy of foefire, is where all your party got rolled on middle. What happens usually is 1 player goes to far, dies there,, 2 go mid, 1 close, and everyone get zerged with a chaos split. A better solution is to simply zerg home point with all 5, then push middle. You might even kill someone 5v1 on close point, and get a 5v4 on middle then..
OP is exaggerating a bit, but i get the same feeling in my games. I’ve lost like 8 games out of 10 so far, and it’s always the same condi/tank builds over and over..
I can’t see anything, even with full bunker build, i get dazed/kd + condis at same, meanwhile these builds seem to have a good sustain… I tried to play thief, it was my worst experience, since i was dying from conditions without even being targeted sometimes..
It would help if people gave good builds to handle these condi meta builds
This may explain why i do have to wait 5-6 minutes to get a match in the lowest division.. Since everyone is at that rank, it should be taking like 30 seconds at worse..
Still crashing for me, the color of the graphics for the map and hero panel got all blocky and odd colored, then it crashed.
That’s what i’m having to. The game keeps crashing every hour or so, if i’m in a HoT area or Lion’s arch. I could play anytime in PvP, i wouldn’t crash.
I’m having 3 types of disconnects :
- Game shuts down with " a serious error has occured "
- Screen freeze, i’m only able to exit the game from desk
- Game shuts down with " client crashed "
Note that i’m always having a cycle with these 3, never got twice the same error consecutively.. But i guess it has to do with HoT release, it should be fine in a week.
We need in game tournaments, like the ones in Gw1, for several reasons :
- an other way to climb the ladder quickly : for example, in normal ranked fights, you can get -3 till+3 rating points. In tournaments, it could be like -20 till+20. That way, very good players would be at the top without having to do 30 games/day, and some casual gamers could as well get to a correct spot
- competitive/fun/rewards/… : reward track farming gets old, this might bring other sources of motivation
- finding new players to play with : solo people might have to ask in chat for other players to participate to the daily tournament, so more teams should form
What’s annoying is that, a few years ago, we had people at least trying to put arguments upon why someone’s decision/move was bad/not optimal. Today we have people spamming chat with no sense sentences, usually not contributing to help the player understand, and in addition putting in ignore.. I mean, why would you put someone on ignore if you’re right ?
On a side note, this wouldn’t happen if we had titles/emotes to reflect players experience…
This wouldn’t change really the issue. Like i said somewhere, probably many players who dedicated most of their time to pvp long time ago( i.e 3k + games) won’t have the motivation to play 30 games/day now…
You’re going to have many experienced players who have a terrible MMR because they are only playing 5 games/week, sometimes losing all of them. Then, you can get parties with 2 experienced players + 3 beginners( all very low MMR) against 5 experienced players ( all very low MMR) and people will again complain on forums.
What i mean is that anyone can be at any rank right now, and dividing the ranked queue pool won’t solve anything..
You need a sort of rank rework, or a title taking into account number of games won( i.e kinda like in GvG or Hero Battles in GW1) to reflect players experience…
Leaderboards can be good, but won’t be perfect anyway, since people who already did 5k+ games don’t have the motivation to climb it doing 30 games/day, starting at the same spot as a new comer. Adding some sort of titles + emotes would also give motivation to many players i believe
- Some form of prestigious pvp in game : daily tournaments, king of the hill ( like heroes ascent in GW1),..
- Removing current meta builds, so people actually learn how to play on capture points and not rely on some OP build. Solo queue is quite a lottery these days… Strategies are never followed, people cannot do simple moves as killing treb,…
The actual system is fine, the only thing you do need is :
- implementing in-game daily tournaments, so more people will form in hotm, and this will create more guilds/teams
- removing legacy of foefire from choices if the match is premade vs solo( or if not " even numbers premades" , i.e 3+1+1 vs 4+1) : i’m pretty convinced this map doesn’t help solo players dealing with premades
Basically, you should have the same amount of players the opponent have on each node. Whenever you kill them, you´re getting “wildcards” for outnumbering them elsewhere. Thats the basic strategy behind conquest mode, not zerging.
Unfortunately, this is probably the worse strategy in the game. Right now, it works well because the meta is ridiculous and has builds that are rather forgiving, but in solo queue, it’s better to let the opponent hold middle point( 90% of the time there will be a player sitting there) and playing 5v4 on other 2 nodes. You make it 3v2 with damagers, and 2v2 with the biggest sustain from your party. Fighting a bunker 1v1 on his point makes no sense
What do u want, only zerk amulet? Fine, give to every class teleport stealth and super nice mobility and i’m ok with that.
I think there will be 50/50 opinions on this. Zerker meta would promote watching map carefully, dodging key skills, not engaging some 1v1’s,… Actual meta is slower, but builds are too forgiving. Shoutbow is unlikely going to die to any burst in 3 seconds( even if, endure pain is here), and there is no risk 1v1’ing any build
I personnaly only believes that there should be " easier counters " , since right now there is too few skill difference between an " average " shoutbow/d/d ele/… and a regular tournament player one
- Remove the MMR algorithm entirely and allow spvp to function like the old RA and TA from GW1. This would render better results than any of the previous MMR systems and it would have no wait times for ques.
I believe the leaderboard we have right now is good, but you have to consider that it might have come too late.. People who already played 5k games before aren’t really going to dedicate x games/day to be put on their true rank.. Consider also people who did 1000 games on 1st season. It is quite frustrating to hear that there would be a reset
The only thing that is needed is motivation for all these players, and i’m pretty sure in game tournaments( giving big skyrocketings in leaderboard) and unique rewards would do very good
Can people finally stop saying how rank means nothing? Obviously it’s an indicator of experience, it’s not really a good one, but if someone who plays pvp for two weeks tells you he’s been matched with r80’s, it’s not okay either.
That’s why there should be an indicator upon the number of matchs won. Maybe, through titles like 25 wins/100/200/400/650/1000/1500/2300/….
People with a lot of experience might die in a 1v1, but they usually do know how to play on a capture point. I thought i experienced all form of jokes in pvp, but my last games were better than anything :
- we manage to cap 2 points and get back on 300-300, until 3 of my teammates decide to attack the gate and push to the lord at that score
- 2 guys on forest are going to chieftain to prevent them from killing and winning. They down the player, and go away. That player manages to finish chieftain and they win the match
- opponents having an enginner sitting far all game, and our ranger keeps going there 1v1 over and over, although he didn’t kill him once
I could quote many things, but actually this isn’t really fun at the end of the day
Worse part is how block works, they cant see your chat, but they can continue to whisper you till you block them….
This is indeed the problem. You can’t argue with anyone, you get trolled and spamed on ignore.
Most of the time the match isn’t going well, i try to put out strategies or explain what to do/not do, but people aren’t reading it, and are starting to complain when i say something for the 3rd time.
I played 8k hero battles matchs in GW1, about 6k games here, and i’m getting trolled by people who have no idea how to play on a capture point map. I just wish there was an indicator about the number of games played( yes i know, skill != number of games played, but it still shows experience) , maybe people would listen then..