Guild Wars 2

Long overdue.

Sword #1, second chain needs a Cripple.
Mace #1, second in chain needs a Chill.

Zeal Grandmaster needs a complete rework.

Condi Guardian that’s viable, not these craptastically un-harmonous traits where I’m a Power base but Grandmasters adding Condi or I’m Crit Base yet retail is now Condi or trying to build anything reliable…. etc etc.

They just through out condi’s in tree’s w/o ANY thought whatsoever: “here, they want condi so let’s just through these out there into a Grandmaster Tree… it’ll never be used cuz it’s pointless due to the fact we really don’t want Guardians to be anything other than Cleanse / Heal Bots”.

Guardian 4 to Win

./yawn

Same things being asked for since December last year… same results….

Guards are fine… blah bla blah

Dev’s too busy… blah blah blah

PvE > sPvP/WvW… blah blah blah

More Living Story Content Plz…. /sarcasm

This thread is dead….

like WvW loot tables.

Apolo.5942:

mrauls.6519:

You must not have gone toe to toe w some seriously good players if you haven’t been in a fight that lasted longer than 25s 1v1

Seriously, half the classes out there do the roaming better than the guardian, scratch that, all of them. No disengage = no roaming.

The issue is our “Disengages” are on too long of a cooldown, whereas other classes have them up much more often to where they can ENTER & EXIT w/ the same skill.

Guards… not so much, as our exit consists of 1 wpn skill (Either sword or GS, which is on a good cooldown, I believe) + JI (too long a cooldown – It’d better if it was 35s Base w/ 28s Mediation Mastery).

The issue has always been the long cooldowns for guardians.

Hunter.4783:

Sword teleport + IJ on (flying?) critter. L2P plz

CLEARLY Guardians are in a good place for now

Unfortunatly, you didn’t see pay attention because she bursted w/ her SoW + S#2 + JI for max dmg and covering w/ blind for full burst potential.

L2P Still stands for you Hunter, even after the 2 years… /sadpandaface

Clearly that’s not a guardian… she escaped.

Mediation DPS Guard. Stay out of Honor & Virtues.

I bought the Collectors Edition in Pre-Order before the game went live….

Um, wtf?

Omnitek.3876:

You might as well have use slow motion, used dubstep and zoomed on the crits.

Don’t be jealous of us making slow-mo, dubstep’d crit zoom’n ownage vid’s….h8’r.

Clearly you’re in the minority!

PS: Keep posting vid’s, seems there’s only a handful of us able to do it and the others just h8… cuz they lack any skill to show off

10/30/30 Boon/Mobility Focus- GS + S/F Tripple Shout -

10/30/30 Healing Focus – Staff + Mace/S

10/25/30/0/5 Burst ur face

All work. All have thier pro’s & cons’.

It’s more about the Synergy between ~ You As Players~ rather than build/diversity.

Any good, solid group of players that know how to play well together and understand what the builds people are running will out perform the fotm meta chumps.

foofad.5162:

. So it’s less about “where” and more about “when.” You don’t use it in preparation. You use it proactively right as the CC starts flying.

You only need 3 Point Control Guardians for an entire zerg, all w/ the right/same build. They can cycle their abilities so there is no overlap.

Most people don’t realize this.

ArchonWing.9480:

Natsu Dragneel.1625:

As it happens, I laugh at any guardian using shouts in WvW as they die to my med deepz.

Well, duh, triple meds is way better 1v1. I don’t even have a reaction for those since they were mostly just running to a zerg most likely.

Blasino.3128:

ArchonWing.9480:

foofad.5162:

ArchonWing.9480:

foofad.5162:

You run into the same problems in WvW – No Wall to punish ranged attackers, no Purging Flames to mass cleanse after condition bursts, no Hallowed Ground to support your zerg clash at choke points.

Oh triple shouts is dead in zerg wvw too? What are people building then? Do tell, I’ve been wanting to do consecrations for quite a while.

Pretty much what I said – WoR to punish ranged, Hallowed Ground to give mass stability in zerg clashes and during fights over choke points, Purging Flames for mass cleanses after the initial merge, and Sanctuary never because it’s basically only useful for point control in sPvP. Stand Your Ground remains excellent though, always good to bring that – again for the Stability. Gotta do something about those hammer warriors.

Ah, SYG/HG combo sounds like fun. We would lose protection, and is purging flames/absolute resolution more reliable than shout condi removal?

Also this would be 20 into virtues I’d assume.

I have to say it is. You are usually using your shouts for other purposes and the condi removal is secondary. And being able to remove 6 condis from a party in a matter of seconds with 2 skills is pretty nice without killing all of your utilities.

Lol, so the pve meta’ers were right! I always thought shout condi removal was overrated.

I suppose there’s no real loss losing that puny passive heal from resolve for quick condi removal.

So WoR/SYG/Purging Flames, dungeon style in zerg?

I’ve never ran shouts remove condi in our 20vs60 fights back in the day… it was always WoR, Stability (either / or) and then 1 floater depending on situations… I actually used Sanctuary alot due to always fighting / kiting 2-3x’s our numbers into choke points…

Never had an issue… check out the vids.

I actually have alot of fun running Hammer / Mace+Focus w/ Meditations.

You can front load a crap ton of AoE Dmg.

Combo -

SoW + SoF -> JI -> PS -> Smite /wpn Swap either RoW (if time) or MB. (Note, there is one more combo in there, but your timing / range needs to be almost perfect): It’s on average, about 10-12k AoE dmg. In WvW its much, much more.

You can swap out Hammer -> GS and come up w/ the same. You Could also use the Scepter/Torch as the other optional weapon… I know some of you guys like that stuff.

Can use either the 10/25/30/0/5 spec or go w/ more symbol damage w/ a 25/10/30/0/5.

Check out the video’s for the Combo – AoE.

WvW Med Roaming

Vids #0,1 & 2 are my fav’s… but i’m bais’d lol

Builds in the vid’s.

If you’re getting into more than 5v5’s you can swap out Mace for sword and move Med’s heal to AH and your healing will be based on Might from VoJ + Symbol ticks. It’s enough. Little bit of a learning curve cuz you’re still GC but it works.

messiah.1908:

here is my first video test in wvw group play
i hope we will see more condi guardians out there
i used both build in this video
meditation build more forgiving as it heals you like crazy
but the first build just spread burning much faster
i dont think this build will be valid with guild groups as support guardian are much needed and also group prefer to go full power builds than conditions
however i can think of few roles this pyroguard can fill in guild group play
1.put pressure on the enemy restack, sieg placement
2.pushing the backline,
3.pressure the enemy to use shouts early

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_Z9jBpB4O4

I’m sorry, but all I saw was you running around outnumbering people to support the validity/usefulness of build.

This has nothing to do w/ your Skill, but everything w/ the Condi Guard and its viability.

sPvP this could work as they are forced to stay on point and will pay for it… outside of that, people will just run away (like the warrior did first scene, good thing the ranger was pew pew pew’n) or if against anyone group in TS it’ll be purged and you’ll be locked down.

Permeating Wrait NEEDS to be Master trait, NOT a grandmaster.

I’ve already posted what they need to do (and they only need to make minor changes to the Virtue Tree), but Anet really doesn’t care about the Guardian: “it’s in a good place”.

I love how the Guardian has to sacrafice everything to get something.

We want DPS… there goes any type of real sustain in anything other than havoc groups.

We want Conditions… we have to use Sigils & Runes.

We want to Bunker down… we sacrifice any real damage.

And although #1 & 3 is “balanced” in theory, the amount of sacrifice is what brings the issue’s to light w/ the design of the class.

THAT has ~always~ been “the issue”…. The AMOUNT of sacrifice a guardian has in unparalleled by any other class. Fix this and the guardians will go back to being silent and content.

Aza.2105:

Yes so its like I’ve written in the previous two posts. If changes do not fit what they believe guardian is or should be then its rejected and deemed as useless. The guardian community are some of the most rigid players I’ve ever seen. They will constantly complain about no changes to the class, when the opposite is true. There are plenty of changes its just with their fossilized thinking they do not make any use of them.

It’s not a buff if it can’t be put into a viable build.

Mediations were a slight buff – not great but absolutely needed in order to make the Med Build work in the current meta. Tha’ts not a buff, that’s a balance change.

Consecrations were a buff – however, you’re only using them in Zerg vs Zerg (buff to 1 playstyle and again, buff’d to compensate for the Condi Meta we’re in… not a buff to gameplay… it was a reactional buff)

Everything else was basically useless because the lack in Synergy between trait lines and the current mentality of everyone NOT guardian expecting them to play a certain way because they don’t want to reduce their damage.

Go figure, eh (Aza)?

Roe.3679:

If they change guardians, you will end up regretting it. If guards end up OP they will end up slowly nerfed to being far worse than they’ve been, and they’ve been nicely balanced since launch.

Guardians have been nerfed every patch outside of the Staff Change (which is argueable the only change ever made ot the class w/ any sort of balance / QoL for the Guardian)…. albeit small nerf’s, but nerf’s none the less.

- Retal (nerfed multiple times w/ NO compensation)
- Might on Crit – nerf’d w/ ICD
- Vigor – Nerf’d 1st w/ increased ICD
- Vigor – Nerf’d again w/ amount

On top of that, the little bits we had from Sigils and Rune’s continue to get nerf’d, reducing Build Diversity….

The Guardian has been nerf’d in every “Balance” or “Feature” patch w/ no compensation.

Viralseed.9362:

EDIT: Gave that Meditation build a shot. No change. It doesn’t matter how many blinds, blocks, and teleports I have, Guardian just seems to melt under waves of conditions or can’t dish out enough damage to take down any competent bunker.

Guardian Damage is not the issue you need to overcome: WvW Med Video

It’s staying on target and using blinds properly.

And that vid is just to show damage… and is in all exotics, no Leg/Asc outside of my GS…. cuz i h8 pve.

4 of 4

It’s definately harder to stomp when fighting multiples, but the dps is there so that usually you don’t need to. Otherwise, Aegis + Blinds work well.

Jerus.4350:

Obtena.7952:

You would think the way Guardians are described, we drop in a blink

If they can’t be blinded with: VoJ, Sword2,and GS3
If we don’t have Aegis/blocks or it hits through the aegis of: VoC passive, VoC active, Retreat, mace3, and shelter
If we don’t have protection from: Symbol of Protection, Hold the Line, and Save yourself
If we can’t use LoS and the Warding lines
If we can’t use the projectile walls: Shield5, WoR, SotA, and Sanctuary
If we don’t or can’t dodge

Then we drop in a blink =b

It’s a good thing guardians can do all of that in the same build.

Carighan.6758:

Amins.3710:

Behold the mentality of the skill-less zerger!

And smallscale is skill-based. Uh huh. Well, as long as you feel good up there on that horse, sure. :P

I feel great.. thanks.

3v8 – healway offshoot.

6v17 – my own spec

20v60 – cookie cutter since beta

Zerging is only good for the small havoc groups wiping the zerg. Please, keep bringing the numbers. We really don’t mind.

Mobility is an issue for small scale roaming. Guardians sacrifice too much to get the same mobility as almost every other class (mesmer not included of course).

Carighan.6758:

Jerus.4350:

So you’re saying solo roaming and much of sPVP are pointless and don’t need balancing?

Pointless? In most cases yes, because the enemy can and hopefully will have a plan of action which makes them have superior numbers in any and all situation

Behold the mentality of the skill-less zerger!

It’s the sole reason guardians “are in a good place”.

style.6173:

This thread is hilarious. I have virtually perma swiftness of my guardian. What more do I need?

To consider there are builds outside of Boon Duration, Bunker, AH or Healway w/ a Staff & Shouts?

You’re Hilarious.

Uhtameit.2413:

How I read your complaint is : “Please buff guardian because I suck at it and I want it to be even easier to play”. If you want to experience what that would like, hambow warriors and a very good example.

Here’s how I read your post: “Please, for the love of everything holy, I cannot figure out how to time my burst as a Guardian has a passive RNG Block once every 30 seconds, and that darn shield of wraith, that’s on a 40s cooldown is too difficult to see what’s going on… Please, do not give them soft CC cuz I have a L2P issue w/ defeating guardians…”

2 of 4

Thanks Laaz. Yeah, it was getting a little bit desolate.

a t s e.9614:

Arken.3725:

Current weaknesses:

-No soft CC
-Very little mobility
-Medium damage
-Most melee-centric profession(due to terrible ranged weaponry)
-Low health
-Situational Sustain(Ah only works with a bunch of people around and with staff, Monks Focus is not a sustainable spec but rather for burst healing due to 3/4 meditations have long cd’s.)
-Unable to spec into a viable condition damage role.

There is no other profession in this game with this many downsides. I will say though that you shouldn’t be able to do everything. However, if you’re going to make a profession 99% melee-centric, it’s melee better be kitten amazing.

‘’ medium damage’’ nice try, meditation guard out DPS my warr by a mile.

Yet you can put 20 points into one tree and 10 points in another and have ALL the Sustain / Condi removal and speed boost ever needed in any class at any point, in any game mode.

/facepalm

Been running this build for the last month – it’s fun. Nothing special really.

I have 4 vid’s. Here’s the First of Four

Build is in the Vid Description.

I run 10/25/30/0/5 all the time – Just be careful cuz you are one squishy mofo.

The damage is fun, no doubt there and you can make it somewhat zerg friendly just switch over to AH and Hammer/Mace.

Healway is probably the best support roaming build we have, though your damage definitely lacks.

a t s e.9614:

Guardian is already incredibly good, giving it more mobility will make it overpowered. Its like giving thieves hard CC.

Right, cuz thieves don’t have hard CC… lol – what f’n game are you not playing?

Abe Kleine.3568:

xFx.3247:

I am just saying that we been using the same builds for a long time, not trying to argue if we have one of the strongest builds or not; Just that we’ve using the same builds.

You know your class has no variety when you blow gold on dire gear to make a fake burn guardian just to humor yourself and do something “different” lol

Even bought trinkets, gold down the drain just to suck out the last remaining entertainment in the guardian profession

I have a full condi set w/ Perplexity runes so I can just JI / Sanctuary into a group and proc Confusion and burning, covering w/ Vulnerability.

Best condi build EVAH~!

Syeria.4812:

Amins.3710:

if you can’t see the blaring issues w/ a melee class w/o soft CC and mobility in WvW… well.. nothing more to say but keep livin in that glass house.

Thanks, but please don’t come back until you have something to contribute.

Stay in school. Reading comprehension is a must in the real world.

Syeria.4812:

Again, you’re just complaining without providing any basis for the complaints or showing how anything you’ve whined about actually causes or indicates imbalance.

Thanks, but please don’t come back until you have something to contribute.

And the same exact can be said for you, who desperately want’s your ele to get buffed before the guard, thus the resistance.

Instead, acknowledge that Anet can do both, but doesn’t care to address any issue.

Thanks for your “constructive” feedback, however if you can’t see the blaring issues w/ a melee class w/o soft CC and mobility in WvW… well.. nothing more to say but keep livin in that glass house.

Cheers mate.

Syeria.4812:

Amins.3710:

Syeria.4812:

Just so I’m following here, the arguments are “guardian is not in a good place” because:

1) Guardian is boring
2) Guardian isn’t as mindless as other classes
3) Guardian isn’t super mega OP
4) Guardian hasn’t changed a ton

So…does anyone have an actual argument for guardian not being in a good place? I’m not saying they are, it’s just that none of the “arguments” put forth in this thread actually disagree with that.

Guardians have 1 single build for WvW. It hasn’t changed and the dev’s have NEVER addressed the issues w/ the class.

Guardians only have 3 tree’s for WvW: Valor, Honor & Virtues.

Guardians lack any sustain for DPS builds.

Guardians lack any soft CC.

Guardians lack any Condi build.

Guardians lack Mobility outside of GS/S+F and dont’ get anything in return for not specing GS+S/F in a DPS build.

Guardians have the lowest HP in a DPS Spec.

Guardians have the Clunkiest of Burst in the entire game…. suprah gimmick.

Guardians defense is Aegis and is wiped out by a 86 pt Ambient Attack.

Guardian has the longest of cooldowns in the entire game, both weapon, utility & elite.

Guardians have only been nerf’d since beta (albeit slightly) but have never gained any of thier dps back in any form from the multiple retal nerf’s.

Guardians have never… changed for any positive aspect of the game outside of the Staff Update.

Yep, that about sums it up, give or take.

Those are complaints, but almost none of those actually establish there being a problem. Almost all of those either fall into “Amins.3710 doesn’t actually like Guardian,” “Guardian hasn’t changed much,” or “Guardian isn’t super mega OP.”

I mean, I can whine that ele single target dps isn’t as good as some other classes, but that’s just a complaint, it doesn’t necessarily mean ele is in a bad spot. If you think something needs to change, make an argument. What you’re doing right now is just whining and complaining about more or less nothing.

And while I can appreciate your opinion, you’re wrong. Those are known issues since beta for the other 2 tree’s we have, which have been neglected since Live.

Thanks, plz come again.

EDIT: And again, from a WvW perspective.

Syeria.4812:

Just so I’m following here, the arguments are “guardian is not in a good place” because:

1) Guardian is boring
2) Guardian isn’t as mindless as other classes
3) Guardian isn’t super mega OP
4) Guardian hasn’t changed a ton

So…does anyone have an actual argument for guardian not being in a good place? I’m not saying they are, it’s just that none of the “arguments” put forth in this thread actually disagree with that.

Guardians have 1 single build for WvW. It hasn’t changed and the dev’s have NEVER addressed the issues w/ the class.

Guardians only have 3 tree’s for WvW: Valor, Honor & Virtues.

Guardians lack any sustain for DPS builds.

Guardians lack any soft CC.

Guardians lack any Condi build.

Guardians lack Mobility outside of GS/S+F and dont’ get anything in return for not specing GS+S/F in a DPS build.

Guardians have the lowest HP in a DPS Spec.

Guardians have the Clunkiest of Burst in the entire game…. suprah gimmick.

Guardians defense is Aegis and is wiped out by a 86 pt Ambient Attack.

Guardian has the longest of cooldowns in the entire game, both weapon, utility & elite.

Guardians have only been nerf’d since beta (albeit slightly) but have never gained any of thier dps back in any form from the multiple retal nerf’s.

Guardians have never… changed for any positive aspect of the game outside of the Staff Update.

Yep, that about sums it up, give or take.

Kicast.1459:

Amins.3710:

Yep, guardians are great. At the spec we have.

Which is what mesmer would like to be for more than one year.

You’re kidding right? You must be a bad Mesmer, as all the Mesmer’s I play w/ are always laughing in ts…. or complaining that they can’t 1v6.

Just saying…

guardian.6489:

Zanshin.5379:

Stramatus.5219:

2 years…have hardly played anything else. Guardians are simply the best.

They’re not the best. They’re balanced. Right in the middle. Not the worst, not the best.

The best get nerfed, the worst get buffed, but the balanced, they’re always good.

I mean literally our only problem for the last 2 years has been that we can’t run any type of condi-build what-so-ever.

For WvW:

And that we can’t run an effective Zerker Build like every other class….

And that we’ve been stuck in an Honor/Valor meta since beta (w/ Virtues mixed in at times for fun roaming)…

And that we have no soft CC…

Yep, guardians are great. At the spec we have.

No, the new Purity of Body is a Grandmaster trait…. so 30 into Virtues.

The best you could get is a 20/5/0/15/30 w/ GS ~or~x/x/30/x/30

This would effectively open up the following builds and add some diversity to our staleness:
1) 20/20/0/0/30
2) 20/0/0/20/30
3) 30/x/x/x/30
4) x/30/x/x/30
5) 30/20/x/x/20
6) 0/25/0/15/30

And much, much more.

Gundail.7594:

Interesting concepts, I’ve always felt like Shielded Mind and Indomitable Courage should just as well be combined, both are useful for sure but, would make for a better GM trait if combined.

The VoC passive you suggest would probably be too good to activate. Would be like the warrior healing signet, a suicide button. Although a passive 10% damage reduction would just about be welcome at this point.

Your VoJ/VoR proposal would make nice sense with Permeating Wrath sort of an offensive version of AH, but I wonder if it wouldn’t be excessive if you were combining AH with PW in a build.

Most people who go AH take up 20pts into Honor for Dodge Heal + Might procs… that would be completely negated and even it out, also sacrificing grp might and grp healing. Fair Trade.

It’s a selfish trait, where as the combining of the VoC is purely a group trait.. Fair Trade.

Purity of Body – (requires unactivated Virtue)
VoJ – Passive -Burning Enemies now Heals you for 25.
VoR – Passive – Endurance Regen Increased by 10%.
VoC – Passive – Dmg Reduced by 10%.

Move Permeating Wraith down to Master.

Combine Shielded Mind & Indomitable Courage as a Grand-master Trait.

Done.

Dirame.8521:

Amins.3710:

Melee hybrid burning build would be super fun, but it won’t happen because the only traits that really build for it are too high up the trees.

If you want to specc like that, you definitely leave no space for survivability. Just specc 30 points in valor and grab Monk’s Focus.

And therein lies the issue not being addressed.

Melee hybrid burning build would be super fun, but it won’t happen because the only traits that really build for it are too high up the trees. Moreover, once you do invest that heavily into the tree’s, your healing is going to suck sweaty monkey balls.

Our traits are ~all over the fk’n map~ Anet. Fix this first. Stop giving us useless stuff… and honestly, it’s not that the items you’re putting out are useless, it’s jsut because of the pretense of our traits being all over the place that hold what you give us, back.

30/15/x/x/x – With GS + S/F. There’s enough cover there to let the burn work… but what next? Seriously… There’s not enough points for healing… we can go something like 30/15/0/5/20 and have some condi removal… but no sustain and no permeating wraith…. and no Retal = Condi..

Anet, you’re all over the map. Focus. Have some balls and make the changes. There’s more than enough condi removal in game to make this build not OP… but super fun to play in small roaming groups or PvP.

Any time you say you’re going to do something and don’t, you loose clients.

Maybe if they didn’t delete their Sales & Marketing Team after launch, we’d have better representation and they would be forced to do what they say they are…

evilmaniac.1467:

Perikittenor.1892:

The only thing i can think about when hearing the “Guardians are in a good spot”

http://9gag.com/gag/a9dDwXL

Clearly we are moving into a better spot next patch.

Lol ;D
Looks about right

HA. Nice find.

Obtena.7952:

That’s what I think … being in a good spot +doesn’t mean the class should stagnate in mediocrity while updates continue to finesse+ the other classes to ‘good places’ too.

WHA?! There it is!

Anet’s #1 Supporter saying it how it really is!

Never thought I’d see the day… I almost started to believe you had submitted an Application for Employment and were trying ot boost your “Team Anet” Rank…

Now they ~have~ to fix the guardian.

Bash.7291:

Actually. maybe x/30/x/x/30 would be better, you get the free crit/condition damage, you get to turn retal into a condition, and could use more dire gear instead of rabid to boost up your defenses and keep all the leach…

And therin lies the single largest issue with guardians outside of 0/0/30/30/0 or 0/0/0/30/30….

All our synergistic traits are spread all the fk over the place when it comes to “Condi”…

30/30/0/0/10 – 10 in Virtues needs to be Permeating Wraith.

How hard is it to figure this out Anet….?

Bash.7291:

WvW, this trait is useless due to AoE, and the horrible range.

This could give birth to Guardian Bombs in WvW. Don’t be so quick to negate it. I have plenty of video’s of me drop’n 16k aoe dmg in 2-3s. If I had another 3-4 people with me and they were all guradians… that’s a TON of AoE dmg.

Shattered Aegis in an of itself is useless, but when stacking 3+ people, it’s a nice 2.5-3k AoE dmg per Guardian.

Just saying….

But then again, you give up ALL healing and I have video’s of that show just how absolutely horrible GC Guardians are anything over 5+ encounters… vs.. /cough warrior in same gear..

It’s NOT a fair trade off for the guardian… every guardian knows this… yet Anet has it’s head so far up its wahzoo to even see it as a possibility…

We’re all just Bunkers in their eyes when it comes to WvW.