Guild Wars 2

Lorelei.3918:

Traditionally the ‘Necromancer’ is not always a pure caster class. In UO Necromancy was a kind of support magic that could be paired with any discipline including melee. Of course WoW had their death knights. RO also has a kind of death knight called a rune knight. Even in D&D the necromancer could wear light armor without a spell penalty where other casters could not.

A few notes, all sorcerer and cleric specializations could use light armor as long as they were tied to a god or non arcane sources of mana. The one special thing was the Pale Master/Necros that used a combination of arcane and life to fuel their skills that could eventually use heavy armor upon turning full undead or a lich. Ofc this kinda changed with the big specialization split in the 3.1 rule patch and was mostly forgotten by 3.5 (the best known/most used/most adored rule set of D&D).
And yes Pale masters used mostly melee touch skills if not specialized in minion summoning.

Lorelei.3918:

Did you ever watch a show called Outlaw Star nike? They had these guns called casters that fired magic bullets. You could get bullets that did all kinds of different things. Your suggestion reminded me of that.

The only problem with your idea is we don’t get pirate armor, so the whole undead pirate using pistols is out the window :c

A) Yay for Aisha
B) No engie weapons on necros! Or anything that creates heat. Or uses projectiles.

Nilkemia.8507:

Well, just because they’re referencing older games doesn’t mean they have to bring back the parts nobody liked.

But it does mean that they should learn to have just as precise hitboxes and clear animation/hit detection.

And blue is still the best…

Normal swords (both hands) and Hammer.

Since currently the game aint in the state where its playable without copious amounts of rage at bugs and bad hit detection, will SAB 2 return next year? (weapons dont matter blue is the best color either way).

Rennoko.5731:

Andele.1306:

Rennoko.5731:

I can’t imagine how bloodlust would out perform corruption for the build that I run which has zero power accounted for (aside from traits), and my auto-attacks already hit for almost nothing. In a hybrid or power build I would agree, but not for a full condition build, long before 8 minutes.

I do agree that penny pinching 5 condition damage here or there is not really a big factor, but 250 power vs. 250 condition damage is going to favor condition damage in a dire/rabid build.

Critical strike is much less appealing in a lot of builds though yes.

Again, yes in a full condition build that got 250 cond damage stacked up from corruption it will do more, but if its (if i remember right under 21 stacks) lower, the scaling of power on the weapons will outdo the additional 5-19 damage you get from bleeds n posion for quite a while, so if a person isnt going for “the maximum” of condition damage on their build trading in some smaller boosts that could technically count as diminishing returns for investment (but not that many to make a real difference) for power, toughness, vitality, cond/boon duration or effects can be very much worth it.

I would assume this would be in reference to a situation where you could in fact deal damage consistently, like PVE. For WvW, hitting harder on my bleed skills attacks is going to give me more less return (at least in my experience). I don’t suppose you have a link to the math so I can re-educate myself (not being snarky, I am really curious)?

Yes and it was on the dungeon forums a while ago… im kinda really bad with saving links… If you arent as lazy as i am you can probably look up the damage coefficients of the 1 chain and the scepter 3, the result should be around as long as you use the 3 every twice its cooldown and the enemy has more than 4 conditions, you get around full 8 minutes of time where each stack of bloodlust does more, but with exceptions on norn and risen abo like bosses (for short anyone with 4 times the armor of a heavy/someone in plague form).

I do have the skill ratios bookmarked trough so here: http://pvx.gw2buildcraft.com/Damage_Calculations#Necromancer

Linguistically Inept.6583:

Andele.1306:

Linguistically Inept.6583:

or do you mean the spider tree?… in which case id suggest you go over to the dungeon sub forum, they have a number of useful strategies (well… one… and another that is… meh)

The oakheart/giant tree and yeah i have read them and you kinda cannot do it in a pug.. also they fixed the dodge trick when the eggs fall/on spawn command thing a while ago.
For short fact is there are a lot of bosses that if not plain require are encouraged to be fought at range, while other at melee and even those require some heavy repositioning or aoe evasion times where you are plain lose more dps by doing nothing than dropping (a tad weaker than the melee) ranged attacks n skills.
Also staff on necro is the equivalent of focus on mesmer, greatsword on warrior, etc with how the profession was designed.

so because you cant do it in a pug it means its impossible… obviously; stupid me.

spoj.9672:

You want to get hit by the poison squirt. Makes you do 6x damage so its important to tell the group not to cleanse the poison

really? never noticed that… guess ive been doing it wrong… but better than the pugs i was with (staying ranged… until they see im not dying… then thinking that they can melee as well… and dying because they cant dodge… or those guards without WoR shudder)

No actually unless you are doing a speed run and/or using the bugged nature of whirlwind, blazing speed, etc (as in playing the game as intended) the big spiders use their pull/immob attack and plain swam kill you.
Also noone said reflects are bad (they are technically in some cases where attacks obviously aint ment to be reflected, proof being in deadeye nerf and tons of videos on youtube), but you cannot keep it up 24/7.
As for encounters that encourage ranged again i give you arah god bosses, AR, most of MF, the Mad king dungeon, most of AC, most of SE and every meta event boss ever.

And if you want my additional blunt honestly, im tired of idiots (i wont name them but they regularly get into arguments with me and lose each time) trying to ruin the game just as what happened with WoW, the vocal minority that doesnt understand what working for your rewards means OR plain having fun with a boss encounter pulling the attention of the devs.

Linguistically Inept.6583:

or do you mean the spider tree?… in which case id suggest you go over to the dungeon sub forum, they have a number of useful strategies (well… one… and another that is… meh)

The oakheart/giant tree and yeah i have read them and you kinda cannot do it in a pug.. also they fixed the dodge trick when the eggs fall/on spawn command thing a while ago.
For short fact is there are a lot of bosses that if not plain require are encouraged to be fought at range, while other at melee and even those require some heavy repositioning or aoe evasion times where you are plain lose more dps by doing nothing than dropping (a tad weaker than the melee) ranged attacks n skills.
Also staff on necro is the equivalent of focus on mesmer, greatsword on warrior, etc with how the profession was designed.

spoj.9672:

You have more multipliers with axe training and an axe. I havent worked out the maths but ive tested ingame when i was trying out deathly perception. Axe with axe training did hit harder than staff. Obviously with the testing Inept has shown that that is not the case when using minimum traits and no gear. But when you factor in crit damage and all the modifiers it does out dps staff life blast. Otherwise how do you explain why my axe life blast wakittenting harder than staff consistantly when I was testing it?

I didnt take my necro into AR. Not sure what encounter your talking about in TA because everyone melees everything in TA. If you are referring to TAFU final boss then you can no longer range that boss due to all adds aggroing when you hit the boss, the method to do it now is the standard method organised groups use which is melee under reflects and projectile blocks. Or melee and dps as fast as you can b4 they spawn to much and dodge the spawns, or the boring pug tactic of kiting round in circles. Melandru priest in path 4 can be melee’d with chain interrupts and everyone standing in a certain spot, only time its worth doing that is if your going for a record time or something. Honestly sometimes I think you dont even play the game.

Confirmation, spoj is getting carried trough all the encounters by the warriors he ran CoF and other farm with and doesnt know how to use the best weapon necro has, point closed~

Rennoko.5731:

I can’t imagine how bloodlust would out perform corruption for the build that I run which has zero power accounted for (aside from traits), and my auto-attacks already hit for almost nothing. In a hybrid or power build I would agree, but not for a full condition build, long before 8 minutes.

I do agree that penny pinching 5 condition damage here or there is not really a big factor, but 250 power vs. 250 condition damage is going to favor condition damage in a dire/rabid build.

Critical strike is much less appealing in a lot of builds though yes.

Again, yes in a full condition build that got 250 cond damage stacked up from corruption it will do more, but if its (if i remember right under 21 stacks) lower, the scaling of power on the weapons will outdo the additional 5-19 damage you get from bleeds n posion for quite a while, so if a person isnt going for “the maximum” of condition damage on their build trading in some smaller boosts that could technically count as diminishing returns for investment (but not that many to make a real difference) for power, toughness, vitality, cond/boon duration or effects can be very much worth it.

Keep in mind, staff is flat out higher in terms of weapon damage (even more so now with ascended weapons), just for the sake of simplicity and the fact that not everyone got maxed out weapons now staff does 120 (240 with full power, 480 on full zerker build) more minimum damage and 60 (120 and 240 respectively) more at max, now add all the additional multipliers and might, bloodlust signet buffs to it if you want and you get quite the big difference, since unlike what spoj things, you can add all the bonuses (- trait ofc) to staff (which btw is the best weapon necro has; regen, chill, transfer and CC, if you dont have it in the second weapon set on some build that isnt a niche as kitten kitten; like cof farm build was, you are plain bad).

Also spoj please show me how you melee(ed) Mai Trin or the spider room in TA or the Arah path 4 god priest bosses.
Also something id love you to melee is the claw of jormag, it will be so much fun.

Rennoko.5731:

Andele.1306:

The 6th slot bonus alone makes it worth it (just as SoL is worth the utility slot for it) since necro mobilty sucks, overall higher movement speed (what allows repositioning for aoes be faster) is great, the 100~ cond damage you lose is nothing and for reals, in a good condi build for pve you are lucky if any condition over 10 seconds doesnt get overwritten.

They are good runes, but you are giving up way more than 100 condition damage.

Traveler runes give 30 condition damage and 10 condition duration.
Perplex gives 183 condition damage and a confusion proc.
Scavenging gives 183 condition damage plus an extra ~100+ condition damage from vitality plus lifesteal procs

Giving up 250 condition damage for 25% movement speed is a pretty rough exchange of stats.

Ok 140~ if on normal cond runes and around 290~ on transition if used to full effect, happy? You still get the 10% cond duration, 10% boon duration and the 25% movement speed, if the person doesnt already have a set of runes they like (i use 3 mk 3 lyssa for example or scav runes on my other set) going with travelers is a great choice and no youd have to lose around 450 points of a minior stat to make up for a free utility slot (or said 250 that you do if only making up for a trait).
Not to rip on the condition damage stat, but its way weaker than people think (same with crit chance), in little parts trading it for small boosts in other stats is in general worth it (just for example, Bloodlust does more on both a hybrid and a condition damage build unless you start fully stacked for quite a long time; like 8 minutes).

knbBlackTemplar.3059:

Poison – Doesn’t reduce heals. – u mean when you use conditions-cleanse heal? Or when you apply poison enemy healing don’t reduce? If 1st – its not a bug.

No some healing effects (including swap sigil siphons) dont get reduced by poison sometimes, rare bug but i think it has to do with the fact that the game sees health gain, siphoning and healing as 3 different things, siphs being in the middle of the road (for example vampiric gets reduced by posion in the rata sum fractal, but the swap sigil proc doesnt when i use it on my ele in pvp). The amount of random crap that sometimes just happens is so big, saying “old features fused with others dont work under set rules” is as pointless as a pot calling a kettle black.

The 6th slot bonus alone makes it worth it (just as SoL is worth the utility slot for it) since necro mobilty sucks, overall higher movement speed (what allows repositioning for aoes be faster) is great, the 100~ cond damage you lose is nothing and for reals, in a good condi build for pve you are lucky if any condition over 10 seconds doesnt get overwritten.

LastDay.3524:

I think that you guys focus a bit too much on Dhuumfire.
It’s powerful, yes, but many other changes occurred on the same patch.
The same patch that introduced it also added:

Tainted Shackles.
It’s a whole new skill in a previously empty, locked slot, thus a straight up buff.
And as it happens it’s actually a quite decent skill.

0.5s Extra Doom duration.
It’s 1 second extra when you stack Fear duration, an extra tick of Terror.

Spectral Wall: Inflicts Fear instead of Vulnerability.
Great skill now.

Most likely these two above changes together are what caused Terror damage to be nerfed later on, not Dhuumfire.

Spectral Armor recharge went down to 60s and is no longer removed by Death Shroud.

Signet of Spite. It went from garbage to really powerful.
3/4s cast with no projectile and 1200 range that applies 6 different types of Conditions? Really?!
Good luck dodging that.

And although less significant for Condition builds Life Blast got buffed a lot on the same day.
Also a whole bunch of skills got higher Life Force gains, including Necrotic Grasp jumping from 3% to 4% Life Force per hit.

A patch or two later a bug on Death Shroud was fixed.
The said bug caused it to take DOUBLE damage from direct attacks.
In effect we got double Life Force vs direct attacks from that patch.

Spectral Armor got changed to give 8% Life Force instead of 3%.
…but with an internal cooldown. Still, much stronger in some situations.

Saying that Dhuumfire alone is the cause for the nerfs is just silly.
Instead of using 1, now nerfed trait as the scapegoat look at all the changes as a whole.

As for why they are nerfing the Scepter… it seems pretty simple to me.
Power builds don’t use the Scepter, and not all Hybrids do either.
By nerfing Scepter bleeds the damage of pure Condition Necros is brought down a notch without affecting many other builds.
It’s a relatively safe nerf to do that doesn’t affect a million other things.

To me it seems like a small step towards bringing condition builds in line with Power and Hybrids.
Power is already pretty good, actually.

If you ask me they should get to buffing the less used ones soon, though.
Vampiric and MMs come to mind.

Tshackles – the fact that DS is still a buffed downed state (aka crippled version of the player) is still correct even after it got implemented, also all other professions got torment and we already got a good immobilize on dagger thus whine about it can go to hell (also giant cry and dark explosion that tells you to dodge the immob and damage is kinda obvious)

Swall – ok buff but it was worthless in pvp before

Sarmor – nefed flat out, even if it didnt work in ds it gave us a fighting chance in 1vx, now a worse endure pain if you are in DS
Swalk – destroyed, plain worthless, SoL and Wurm both better in their respective parts with better benefits

DS – no they actually just doubled the HP>LF transition, we take identical damage as before in DS AND they remove our absorb thus NERF of DS

Dagger and Staff LF generation was good as it was, scepter wasnt and still isnt, thus they just changed kitten around for the sake of changing, not balance.
For axe its true that it got buffed but it will be never be worth it with such a aa unkitten th other skills are bloody op (and they are kinda on the way to be).

Signet of Spite has a projectile, as do all skills with a cast time/not true instants, the fact that you can return it to the necro using the mesmer echo is a great example of “strong”, no its plain good now, it was kitten that required to be worth the slot. Wells and corruptions are still better slot ins but if someone wants burst they can now get a bit more without crippling their utility bar.

TL;DR – Necro got nerfed more than it got buffed. Problem is that the nerfs are way more obvious in pve and wvwvw than in pvp what is for “some reason” the main focus of their balance team. Adding dumbfire gave even more burst to a stable build, turning it op, then instead of reverting it and all being ok, they nerfed everything that was good for most build in general destroying build diversity to some set builds that only rely on DS and weapon skills or wells.

Linguistically Inept.6583:

http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/84416-guide-minmax-dungeon-groups-with-any-class-composition/

So many things wrong in terms of necro there… A) Staff does always more as the DS base than axe, even if traited.
B) Dagger is sadly melee thus you cannot keep the dps for the entire fight in most cases, also Life blast is technically our cleave
C) One does not simply ignore better traits for the quite worthless Banshees Wail (seriously the trait is never worth it, even if you wanna get a bit more LF from 5 now that the stun sigils have been fixed)

wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/File:Death_Shroud_old_interface.png

Bloodwort MacFangho.4638:

When in DS, I want any audio coming from my toon to be in CAPITAL LETTERS JUST LIKE IT IS IN PRATCHETT’S BOOKS!

You know Dhuum did that, not Grenth (also i think if it were the case we would be the virtual version of the death of rats).

Flowers explode, so do barrels, so does 99% of random shiz that isnt a bauble, just dont collect anything except them.

Xavi.6591:

Outdated list is outdated.

For meta, yes, for overall builds and their strengths (so including the ones not really used in pvp because they “are not viable”), its correct.

Nebilim.5127:

Is point 2 and 3 made for tribulation mode? if yes, they are completely irrelevant. Devs already said the whole point of that mode is to frustrate you. If you aren’t happy with that, then play normal or infantile.

No general problems with Sab, just watch this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9-aUFHIt7c

Ayrilana.1396:

Old games got progressively more difficult. You need to learn where the enemies are and the strategy to beat them. You can’t just rush through like world 1.

Old games were also in 2d where you had 100% control over precision and hitboxes, they had a good camera that never went kitten , all traps had different sprites and projectiles were on screen at least once before you even had a chance to get hit by them.

- very smart video on that topic.

TheLaughingMan.7951:

They completely missed the mark and destroyed the overall theme of SAB going from World 1 to World 2.

Well in execution, yes, but the actual ideas and design of the World 2 zones is awesome.

1. Engine is broken if you wanna be a platformer, needs heavy fixing (jumping, hit detection, camera); we know GW2 is based on the GW1 engine, it had no jumping and pathing was in set corridors, so despite how much effort it takes and it cool is that you are trying to do more, its not worth the time if not done right, rather focus on better combat.

2. Stop comparing SAB to super mario, mega man, i wanna be the guy, etc, you didnt take the essence of those games, nor base idea of level design from them, just imitated the punishing side of those games that they had because of limitations, but nothing from the good side; all those games were balanced on the upgrade system (or lack thereof) in a set pace, the clear cash cowing of it with the infinite coin and bauble nerfs causes a major balance issue.

3. There is a difference between a sneaky surprise 2D traps and bad 3D instakills.
Good examples are blocks in super mario had their own special sprites that indicated what they do, ground on SAB (tribu mode) is identical to the holo ground, Not only that because (there are hitbox problems and) its not a 2d game where pixel difference decides what hit and what didnt, a lot of stuff plain doesnt work/is based on random luck.

5. Noone gives a kitten about the good ideas and sections in a level if its only 5% of it and the rest is boring and annoying (2 worst crimes a game can do), kinda like what youtube used to be and newspapers n books currently are.

Mammoth.1975:

People with social skills can be honest without being insulting. In fact, calling them lazy had nothing to do with your point. Calling any gamedeveloper lazy is ridiculous anyway, it’s one of the most overworked jobs in the world.

If you actually think your input is going to be taken seriously when you’re consistently a kitten, I’d get yourself checked out for autism spectrum disorders.

Too blunt?

The fact that i dont give a kitten about respecting people that show no respect for others has a lot to do with the fact how the game is run. And no, game devs can very well be lazy, want some prime examples in the last few years: DN Forever, Aliens: CM, War Z, Ride to Hell: Retribution and pretty much every racing game in 3 years (on terms of AI side because it seems that “no rubberbanding” concept got forgotten, with rare exceptions ofc) – all examples of lazy devs, no matter what side of the spectrum.

As a matter of FACT, game development became at least 10 as easy since 2007 (announcement year of GW2) because of UDK and the open modding community.

Great example of it is Modern military shooter sub-genre that didnt change in the last 6 years a bit, all the money being thrown is in the art team for “MORE REALISM” and cutscene, to the point that any dev team can make a mechanically great fps in about 24 hours (if you want proof, google Bulletstorm commerical CoD parody game or something like that or just look it up on TBs channel).
RPGs (including MMORGPs) were kinda the free birds left to actually improve in the AAA world, GW2 improved on the business model a lot (and im not shy to give them massive kudos for it) and on the exploration factor, but in the process they forgot core aspects of mmos they forgot to rip off but improve from others (like they did with dynamic events, vistas, no return requirement and personalized object id flags). That is starting to bite them in the kitten (and is actually most obvious with how they are handling necros (and actually everyone except the mesmer and guardian).
Blizzard was during vanilla barely making their expenses back, but still pushed out awesome big patches and got 99% of the mechanical and engine problems fixed by the time TBC came out (and the worth span from 2004 to 2007 in terms of game development is barely a month now, we not only got VR on the way, but also crowd funding, a full destruction engine code using voxels, full 3D renders of characters, no heavy VA requirement past their initial voice imput using the same tech as for vocaloids, indie made physics engines that manage to be better at precision platforming in 3D than a lot of 2d games were).

Also i think you are mistaking my plain disrespect for a quite serious neural dysfunction of that im very sure off you dont know what it means or even is…

Bweaty.9187:

Oh and Andele, you don’t think that more LF = More Mitigation makes more sense? Allows more build diversity as DS Dance isn’t ‘the’ way to play?

Im pretty sure i said it a while ago in terms of stabilty, uptime/total potential cant ever be taken as a realistic measure for the worth of the resource, so no more LF isnt more migration unless we are allowed to build it within DS (what is actually a bad idea since its kinda the thing that allowed necros to be op in beta).

Godless.1857:

Show me the game (or anything) that you have helped to make, that has sold over 3 million copies of.

I don’t know where you get off calling out the developers as being lazy, seriously your entitlement levels are through the roof. If you are going to be unrelentingly negative, un-constructive and frankly childish, the community in general would be better off without your “wisdom”.

Give me the budget are swimming in first.
And no its true, if there are problems with core aspects game (especially a mmo) and they aint resolved in what is already a year despite all the forum posts about them, its a kitten lazy dev team.

Mammoth.1975:

‘Toning down the snark so you can have a reasonable conversation’ = kissing kitten . You must have a lot of reasonable conversations. Sorry, I know you’re probably just having a bad day, but chill please. It would be nice to get more devposts in here now and then.

Yes it is kissing kitten if you want people to stop being blunt honest about obvious problems the game has that are just piling up. The truth may hurt and “be mean to me wee wee sobs and cries” but thats what helps you not only improve in whatever you are doing, but also allows you to improve all your creations. I really dont want another Cataclysm (but instead of kittening up good lore, what sadly already happened with new people working on it, kittening up the gameplay).

Godless.1857:

Andele.1306:

Again, instead of giving us just a post like this that can be nothing (since staff has kinda lost their trust from what i think is most of the necro community after the downed hp and the DS hp stuff), why not do what responsible (and sane) devs up to date did with every mmo that exists, actually allow us to see the hp of the enemy (and in the necro case of DS LF based HP)? There would be no problems that way!

Because of the design decision to make combat visual rather than forcing numbers. Hence the telegraphed moves instead of a skill bar telling you what they are about to cast.
I vastly prefer this more nuanced approach.
(also, you might want to tone the snark down if you want to be able to have a reasonable discussion about this)

Yes because kissing the kitten of lazy people that wanna hide the fact that the older version was and is a better game from a mechanical standpoint will totally fix everything. And telegraphing skills with a camera that spazzes out on every edge and corner is a very solid idea with many hours behind it.

Karl McLain.5604:

In script, the threshold is still 25% health.
In testing:
On a target that has 18140 health, any strike that occurs when it’s at or below 4535 health procs Chill of Death.

Again, instead of giving us just a post like this that can be nothing (since staff has kinda lost their trust from what i think is most of the necro community after the downed hp and the DS hp stuff), why not do what responsible (and sane) devs up to date did with every mmo that exists, actually allow us to see the hp of the enemy (and in the necro case of DS LF based HP)? There would be no problems that way!

Bhawb.7408:

It happens, we’re all familiar with tradition on the podcast :P

Fixed that for you, by now saying that tech issues on any of the SOAC is like reporting that minion pathing is kitten to the bug report forum.

Josh Foreman.8250:

Not to minimize your complaints but here’s my take.

1. The zones are too long

You are complaining about too much content.

2. Jumping on a flower can throw you into another flower and kill you

You can be more careful about the direction you are facing when you land on them.

3. Crocodile hit boxes are too little

You need to use tactical stratagy to find the spots to hit the from, just like old platform games.

4. Too many enemies on all maps

Learning where enemies are and how to thwart them is part of the process of progressing in old platform games.

5. World 2 spike traps are not fair, especially when you get to places where there are lots of cheap ones.

They are all visible. The darts shoot out of dart boxes. The assassin training grounds are meant to teach you to carefully observe your surroundings.

6. World 2 does not have nearly enough checkpoints and repeating the gong run is painful

The gong run is painful. I’d like to tap that difficulty spike down.

7. World 2 – bringing the fish from the fountain, up the temple – too difficult due to lots of cheap spike traps

Not sure what you mean here. If you are talking about the dart traps, there are none in the fish temple.

8. World 2 – clouds are invisible unless your brightness is at 0.

I’ve tested on a variety of monitors and haven’t seen this problem.

I could go on and on and on. Normal mode was made far too hard.

You may be right. I think it’s too early to tell. Some number of people hit a little resistance and quit and come to complain about it. And some number hit that same resistance and are inspired to overcome it and they are in the game right now doing that. I don’t have a good sense of those numbers are right now. I’m more than happy to adjust it when I have better data to work from. Thanks for your feedback.

1. More content =/= GOOD CONTENT, Liadri was good (despite bugs), Mad king CT was good (again despite some weird teleports rare people got and the amount of charr kitten i saw), example of lots of content with no real substance was the first patches of F&F where the TGS podcast plain said: Oh whats new in GW2? Fixing signs and returning bear arses.

2. Forced jumps are terrible, all over the game they are buggy, hell it took you guys 9 months to stabilize a weapon skill so that it can even be used without you pretty much murdering yourself (engie rifle jump).

3. Their tails, despite how good of a idea it is, aint properly fixed to the hitboxes, nor is the whip that cannot touch some of them unless you are on a specific pixel of some logs/rocks IN A 3D game…. yeah not good, nor is anything in SAB2 and most of the new content you release properly hitboxed and indicated and a lot was in release was bad till you fixed some aoe indicators (easy solution to this would be a plain increase in whip range to fit the animation).

4. No problem with enemy count (even if the frogs are annoying in that one room).
5. Again no problem, but it would be nice if the rim of traps wasnt the same as shadows… (no real problem if the players had enough time to look).
6. NP
7. NP again

8. Actually no that is a big problem, testing it on some monitors doesnt mean it works everywhere, same thing was with Liadris AoE circles (not to mention that they were at least 5% off of the actual hitbox from the shadowfall), they were also half invisible because of how it worked with rendering them and the ground.

Monkey Fritz.9052:

Seems they are just testing out ways to make us pay for each new LS update.

Funny thing is, I would have bought the infinite coin just for fun if the sab had been as fun as before. But won’t even bother playing W2 now that it’s required.

Funny how that works.

Well you are smart… i was expecting the old SAB (not collision and hit detection crap with more bugs than stars in the universe on what is actually a good designed map with good ideas), thus wasted money…
At least that were honest with the fact that Tribu mode is I wanna be the guy.

The one hits aint the problem, its the terrible hit detection (and forced jumping in general) thats annoying, not to mention some, lets just say things that indie doesnt have to bother with because his whip isnt as long as a small worthless stick.
Also yeah tribu mode is insane, but of the good kind (with the same errors GW2 has in general)… The more patches go out the more i start to hate the devs that are letting this happen instead of fixing their sodding engine or building new content that avoids them.

Karl McLain.5604:

As for the question regarding Chill of Death, the trait triggers if you strike a target that’s at 25% or less. Meaning if you strike a target that’s at 26% health and bring it below 25%, you’ll need to attack it again in order to get the trait to trigger.

Cheers,
-Karl

Look at the screens, first one was (if the bar is any indicator and the fact that it was a 13 attacks in; so 14th proccing it; 16 killing a drake without it traited) under 25%, second is the attack proccing it, third is the actual proc and damage it dealt of it and another auto attack since i had it on autocast (but from the duration on the chill you can see it was already on a drake for almost a second). So no its bugged and should be looked into.

Already got 6 on my rampager set. Kinda will be new staple in combo with carrion gear and on swap lifesteal runes.

Full zerker gets to 50% crit chance pretty easy, no real need for assassins, its more of a thing for warriors, thieves and probably even mesmers n guardians that wanna go for a full damage build.

Softspoken.2410:

I don’t know what to tell you Andele, besides that you suck at testing traits.

Maybe i do suck at testing traits and round up math in my head instead on relying on a A-net made combat log, but so far everything i posted in terms of bugs was correct (from the old old swalk swap, to signet of locust bloodlust enchat, the deathly swarm transfer that used to be 1 pre hit not 3 instantly and still as screens show right now Chill of Death being procced at 1/5 of the drakes hp instead of 1/4).
Also you tell me if proccing on a champ event whose hp bar tracker is on about 19% is the trait “working as intended” because your math shows you its true (without actually knowing the armor and hp values of said mobs).

Softspoken.2410:

Andele.1306:

Another stealth nerf, at least in pve (dont know about other 2) Chill of Death (Spite major), procs at 20% instead of 25%, cooldown seems to be longer than 20 seconds but not sure.

Testing this in PvE against Fireflies (by adding up damage values in the damage log, and being sure to use no conditions) reveals that the trait triggers when the enemy hits 25% health, as described.

Again, better use against bigger enemies, because the damage from the trait itself kills or puts most mobs down to 10%~
Here on drake example

http://s13.postimg.org/rsjoxcy7a/gw981.jpg
http://s12.postimg.org/5pmhtljm4/gw982.jpg

Kraag Deadsoul.2789:

Andele.1306:

Another stealth nerf, at least in pve (dont know about other 2) Chill of Death (Spite major), procs at 20% instead of 25%, cooldown seems to be longer than 20 seconds but not sure.

If true, then this is actually an improvement in my book. The description reads:

“Cast Spinal Shivers on an enemy when they hit 25% health. This effect can trigger only once every 20 seconds.”

However, this trait has been bugged such that it would process at 15% health instead of 25% health. To see it increased to 20% is a welcome fix; though I’d prefer it work as stated and process at 25% health. Maybe next patch we’ll finally have it process at 25%.

My rationale being that at 15% health, the target was already so low on hit points that they are usually dead shortly thereafter. This didn’t make Chill of Death useless; just not as useful as it could be if it kicked in at 25% health.

It worked in pve most of the time on bosses in my book, now it seems to proc quite a bit lower (most notable on oakhearts in queensdale/metrica and risen champ chains in orr since for some reason noone really stacks chill, confusion or torment on these guys but they have high hp and toughness). Hey so maybe a middle point between pve and pvp?

Why is everyone ignoring the fact that one of our strongest power traits got nerfed (a lot in pve kinda okish if its bugged in pvp)?

Another stealth nerf, at least in pve (dont know about other 2) Chill of Death (Spite major), procs at 20% instead of 25%, cooldown seems to be longer than 20 seconds but not sure.

Additional bugs: Lich* form – cast time interupted past the first 0.4 seconds makes it go on full cooldown

New bug this patch (at least in pve): Chill of Death procs at 20% instead of 25%.

Some that aint/shouldnt
Poison – depends on the heal some are
Vigor and invul aint option, but limit on ds damage should make its return
Finishers are on utilites (minions), maybe on a new melee a leap would be ok but i dont think we need em.
Golem* that doesnt die when wet.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Andele.1306:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Bring back Well of the Profane as an elite well. I would be extremely content with that.

So just well of corruption we have now on steroids? How about a additional 66% healing reduction (that obviously shouldnt work on life siphons from other necros).

Well of the Profane was just stripping, really. I was thinking a debuff that reduced incoming boon duration by 100% (like how Beserker’s Stance is SUPPOSED to work with conditions). The one concern there would be that it totally destroys non-necro bunkers and pretty much has no other use (other than WvW).

Yeah i know thats why i said so you just want WoC on steroids (since, really noone cares about the damage woc does if your mark of blood does the same if you include the cond damage…), thus my suggestion, adding a healing reduction so that it totally negates some bosses cheeze mechanics (like yay condi eating golem, yay 40 “i am a RAT MAN” all with prot, regen and retal, etc).

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Bring back Well of the Profane as an elite well. I would be extremely content with that.

So just well of corruption we have now on steroids? How about a additional 66% healing reduction (that obviously shouldnt work on life siphons from other necros).

Nay of the Ether.8913:

Andele.1306:

Bhawb.7408:

No idea if that was explained well. But anyway, I think its better this way, it makes Death Nova feel really meaningful, and its hilarious when someone AoE cleaves down all your minions and eats 6k damage.

Not to break the bubble, but that aoe that should cleave all the minions was probably that 20k 100b (or insert other skill like it) on a <10 sec cooldown. So no, i think that devs were, once again, plain lazy... also bad QA.

I think he was talking about the 6k dmg from them ripping up each minion then subsequently taking 6k damage for doing so in the midst of their mindless dps spam that warriors are notorious for. Not the 100B dmg

No im just talking about proportion of investment vs returns given, if a skill that you can spam every <10 seconds does more total damage in the same span as something that has double the cooldown, cast time and trait investment, for a 1.1 (1.6k traited) then a 1.4 damage hit on (up to 2.5k if crit) on a heavy armor npc is op with the first value being flat since minions dont scale with power and the explosion only dealing respectable damage if you go full into SR that has nothing to do with minions, yes it is a valid comparison to show how stupid the explanation was that "minions would be op if their death effects stacked, its not like they need to be in position for the damage and their pathing is somehow 7 times worse than the one of the bone fiends in the original GW (that were kinda limelight famous for what golem does right now with his moonwalk little brush or rock charges, being the only true ranged minions, but the amount of them you could have made it ok if one of them was spazzing around) and that they have actual long cooldowns (im ok with the cast time, it fits for the effect of it being a summon/increasing the strength you bring to a fight upfront).

*sorry if it sounded rude, but it plain and simple that the investment requirement for minions to be of true use (except for wurm, but as said thats because its competition was nerfed), is TOO kitten HIGH - insert meme guy here*

RashanDale.3609:

and while we’re at it, can we have some pudge-responses when we hook someone with spectral grasp?

So(h) ye want ay bit of kittenney in your necro?
That wouldn’t have sorted it a bit.

Bhawb.7408:

No idea if that was explained well. But anyway, I think its better this way, it makes Death Nova feel really meaningful, and its hilarious when someone AoE cleaves down all your minions and eats 6k damage.

Not to break the bubble, but that aoe that should cleave all the minions was probably that 20k 100b (or insert other skill like it) on a <10 sec cooldown. So no, i think that devs were, once again, plain lazy… also bad QA.

Bhawb.7408:

Can we get the Predator noise too?

Id rather have NOM NOM NOM NOM; Nyx, Nyx, Nyx, Nyx, Nyx, Nyx; Consume and adapt or Life Reaper, Soul Keeper~
*kudos to who gets all the references*

LezardValeth.9453:

Another one of these topics of other classes trying to get us nerfed. Again. Seriously, after that last deathly patch you aren’t satisfied? Not like we can fight against it either since Anet favors all BUT necros.

Mesmer=Guardian>Ele=Thief>Ranger>Engie>Warrior=Necro
(order of equal being who is still taken first into consideration, but with same amount of thought put into it).

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Oh I understand your point. Many of us are probably achievement completionists, and may feel frustrated that some achievements seem out of reach. But Tribulation Mode is literally activated with an angry looking cloud (that’s assuming they kept the angry cloud back from the initial release). That angry cloud is a very clear communication that this is not just hard mode. You will be angry, you will be frustrated and agitated…. and hopefully you’re one of the few who can also appreciate the humor in it.

By the way, I don’t think Super Meatboy is a good comparison. Super Meatboy is just a really hard platformer that clearly shows you whats ahead, with the ability to quickly retry. But it doesn’t have that humorous feeling of unfairness, where you are trying to guess the crazy stuff the sadistic developer will do next. Cat Mario and IWBTG have a sort of deranged twist to it. It’s like they took some of the unfair challenges in classic NES platformers, and made it even more unfair, just to give the players this awesome sense of accomplishment for surviving it. Some of us who grew up in that 8-bit era, can understand the sadistic fun factor that Josh and his team are going for with Tribulation Mode.

This reminds me of the deadly powerups that the NES game Snake Rattle and Roll would often drop right near places where you had to jump. Like powerups that reverse your controls, so that the moment you land, you instantly move backwards off the side of the cliff. Is it unfair? Yes. Is it funny? Oh yes! Then also add metal arms that unexpectedly come out of the wall, and push you off the side.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZd1Almdwug#t=7m05s

Or giant razor blades and falling anvils that suddenly appear with no warning. Fake extra lives that turn out to be deadly bombs, and speed boosts just before a tricky jump, so you overshoot it and kill yourself.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZd1Almdwug#t=4m50s

It’s like one giant obstacle run, where the devs just throw everything at you they could think of. And it’s epic.

Josh. Please let there be giant falling anvils!

As a reply to this and the one before, all of the well made masochism simulators have a few important things that SAB (and Rytlock Rampage), a lot of encounters that just get cheezed and Liadri dont have, a clear sense of player control and knowledge.
With that i mean stuff like the playing being able to rotate the camera to see where they have to jump (kinda big issue with the first sabs waterfall bonus thing and the leaf section of the people going for all the baubles, massive issue with lia), enemies (and their attacks) not having hitboxes that dont make sense (monkeys for example didnt hit me half the time despite their bat going directly trough my model and Lias aoes not only dont show right because of the ground, but are also about 5% bigger than the aoe indicators if you see them, same with laser beams in CoE, same with shockwave attacks); ok this one was a issue in mario and battletoads because it were pixels to a little square could be the difference between kicking a koopa or picking it up or a attack not hitting and most importantly a good enough reaction time frame to learn what encounters do, when traps spring up and other such stuff without instagibbing the person (Liadris shadowfall and gravity orbs would in theory be perfect for that well done but since its riddled with ui fighting the player, instead the loved mad kings clock tower is also a awesome example).

Personally i loved the old Mario, DK, Sneaky Snakes and even Battletoads, but after stuff like Touhou, Mega man and the Metroid games, they are kinda bad in terms of mechanics and control the player actually has, even if 99% of the game doesnt any glaring problems; it kinda has the one bad apple can ruin the bunch effect of the people not remembering the cool race parts, but just that one boss, or that one part of the water level where fish randomly pop up just 3 pixels under you and you have to repeat it for 3 days to get lucky enough instead of the weeks of platforming fun.

P.S. SRNR a ton of nes games were arcade ports or designed by the same people that did games for the original arcades, noone should ever return to that kitten because it was fake difficulty designed to eat time and money, not for fun; rare learned that and then pushed out probably two of the best games ever made banjo kazooie (and no it doesnt have a third game, no race cars and bad references dont exist in bajos world) and the James bond FPS that my friends always teased me with since i suck at fps and forgot the name