Guild Wars 2

One idea, what if they STACK? so you could have +12% cond duration from a 2 weapon set, but you can only have 5% bonus damage for power?

Blaine Tog.8304:

. If DS is used as our only defense and it’s the same on every Necro, then it becomes difficult for us to have a true damage<—->defense spectrum. Our glass builds will be too tanky to be allowed to deal epic damage and our tanky builds will have too much damage to be allowed to be epically tanky.

How about doing the same to DS what full glass cannons do to actual hp of any profession, make it be worthless and fall to 0 when looked at the wrong way, so only people with actual defensive stats can use a efficient tnaky ds (carrion, rabid, knight, celestial, soldier ,etc)

Because its fact that you cannot.

Few things that people mix up:
Reflects and exploiting/ignoring game mechanics with unintended use is not control
All zerkers that ever fought in AR with the same tactics as normally died, no full zerker group that wasnt using true techniquies (kiting, ranged/sub optimal dps combat) of the encounter survived.
Control is chill, cripple, immobilize and hard cc
Support (healing being part of it) is mostly boon spam and actually reviving downed people (thats why there are runes and traits for that)
Necro tanks kinda worked pre nerf, they were mostly just walls in case a idiot died to a obvious aoe, but it worked.
Fear is a good control mechanism, especially with the ability to permachill a enemy as a necro, they wont run out of the 130~150 cleave range of most skills.

its just encounters, perception vs reality and lazy devs that are kitten ing it up. Core system idea is good.

ODB.6891:

Terok.7315:

Necromancer isn’t the problem where PvE is concerned, the content itself is the problem. Damage is king and necromancer isn’t meant to do the most damage.

There is no problem with the content. Dealing damage and/or providing defense/healing, while dealing damage, is the basis of every action mmo in a dungeon/pve setting. Every mmo’s pve is about efficiency in farming/clearing content…taking forever to kill stuff is the opposite of that basic design. As it is now, we aren’t even as viable as other classes at taking forever to kill stuff while avoiding death. I would definitely say that the necromancer is the problem. When it gets to the point that there is reluctance to bring a particular class/profession into a dungeon run versus other options…in a game that is allegedly designed to avoid that problem…then there is a real problem with balance/design. The parts should be interchangeable without a noticeable loss in performance/survivability.

I think you need to go trough the basic game design course, the core 3 elements thay may never clash (and with clash i mean contradict based on genre) are: enjoyment in gameplay/fun, challenge one must overcome/difficulty and Foundation in development/good pacing, story, mechancs that help the gameplay, controls, etc
In a mmo (and mugs that created the mmorpg genre) the point of PvE isnt to “make most dps in least amount of time” or farm for something, but to have a expirience that is difficult enough for you to say “Hell yeah, im kitten!” when you finish it, fun enough not to make you smash the controler/keyboard/mouse/whatever you use to play in a enviorment that allows for social interaction because of the chaos factor the play brings.
Great example of that was AQ40 in WoW, till you got to the last 2 bosses, everything all 40 people did was actually influencing the fight, because the bosses at their core were quite simple (help the person mind controlled/dont get yourself, dont stand in ooze, kite swarm till boss is invul for a phase so that you dont enrage him, etc) and how prepared the players were made fights harder/easier, but that didnt mean a actual gear check, instead having consumables up, chosing the right skills/build and rotations.

Let me say this, mesmers had 1 confusion on 1 skill of a basic chain for (5? 3 maybe) a few seconds, it allowed them to make every enemy in game instakill himself with clicking their auto attack.

Crovax.7854:

Angry mob of bads inc who tell you the fight is luck based and horribly designed!
:O

I got the mini, but still know its luck based and horribly designed because of camera, the possibility to blind the player and terrible/no truly visible aoe indicators and no changing graphical options is not a solution its a bandaid, such crap should never happen.

Blaine Tog.8304:

With respect to the Necro, I don’t want them to give us a weapon with a block that sucks for everything else, whether it’s a mainhand weapon with a useless autoattack or an offhand weapon as lopsided as the Mesmer Torch (everyone agrees that The Prestige is awesome, but Phantasmal Mage is so bad it makes the weapon unusable).

Well with how the latest mesmer nerfs and buffs are going, torch is kinda usable in situations where you need the stronger shatters when combined with scepter. Its kinda like the axe offhand mainhand in the respect of build power vs individual skills it has.

As for the defensive thing, WE BLOODY HAVE/had A DEFENSIVE WEAPON, its called Death Shroud, problem is all traits related to DS as a defensive tool were thrown around the trait lines/nerfed.
We got: Spite -axe focus signets burst, Curses - scepter warhorn corruption conditions, DM - Minions staff/two hander fight management/support, Blood - dagger Life siphon (i kinda count it as its own weapon since it works on all sets) sustain/healing allies and finally SR - its only based on offensive power use of DS, with some remains of useful tank skills being dropped into spectrals, moved to other lines or nerfed to FitG/Shade comparisons, its kinda clear that SR really needs a good split of offensive and defensive traits, not stuff that is 99% useless like 25% faster movement in DS (which wouldnt be a problem if signets werent bugged with transformations),Vital Persistence (fact, builds that would get it already have enough LF generation) or traits that belong into other lines *im looking at you mark of revival and MoT*

Nilkemia.8507:

So a multi-racial pirate group working with an organization that views themselves superior to all others (even non-Inquest asura) seems rather strange. Either the Inquest are providing something that the Aetherblades want badly enough to do all this, or perhaps the Inquest are using brainwashing or some other method of control to get people to work for them.

Well with the dump of text we got in AR, no the inquest are funding and setting up the Ablade plans… The one thing they themself actually did was murder pugs with cannon fire and instakill shadowstems to which i can only say good job.
Also there fact that there are no sylvari and asura fighter only shows the superiority of the other races when it comes to survival, imagine if the ablade vets were as easy to kill as the inquest you fight in CoE, everyone and their grandma would have had T4 trials finished.

Tomcio.9605:

Andele.1306:

For those that dont have condition gear for some reason/have a hybrid glass cannot as their condi setup, going the typical minion 20/0/30/20/0 build with Blood, Bone, Bone, Shadow, Golem will kill it while you pretty much afk attack Subject 7.

Hmm could you tell me what traits you used? I am running hybrid currently and tried this couple of times, but I never got its hp below 50%.

If you mean Subject 7, i think it should be pretty obvious in case of the mm build, its (skill that was awesome and the trait doesnt deserve the name) Spiteful Spirit, Training of the Master, Minion Master, Flesh of the Master, Death Nova, (optional mark of evasion or) Bloodthirst, Vampiric Master.
At the start if you have s/d you really wanna get the poison on the enemy (just chain attacks till he is around 60%, ignore the usual urge to cast 2 and 5), if on axe a putrid explosion (bone minion summoned skill) is gonna help a lot in that case when combined with Axe 2. At around 60% you wanna be on staff and have at least 10% DS to fear away the ooze to the edge of the arena, resummon bone minions if you used another explosion for the poison and then use golem charge when 7 is at the wall for massive damage and cc, using the other 2 actives can help too, then obviously a DP and TS so that you can skip the ooze (with correct positioning or just dodge into it if you dont have gambits on) and burst it down, if you somehow get downed/are really unlucky with where the ooze spawn and they dont hit the minions, by the time that happens you should have 7 to less than 5% and a fear into putrid will finish him off.

Its also not difficult to be a good person and obey the easy down/defeated rules of pve, if downed, help, if defeated let them rot for being lazy.

If doing a combination of Carrion and Rabid stats (since condi+tough+vit dont exist as a set), make sure to have at least around 30% crit chance to proc the bleed sigil and minior curse trait.
Also one big point every condi necro would mention, chip damage is pretty much the only thing that will hurt you if you play right, so making your starting build training wheels for good positioning is usually better (and allows you to plow trough content faster) than going a defensive setup that will still stick to range.
If you want more build info look at the forums or youtube for Nemesis.

Bweaty.9187:

( Regen is based off there heal power not yours)

5, It’s fear, AOE in the circle. They recently nurfed fear duration, because of added burning condition. So it’s kinda mostly useless if not in a terror spec. Gains a small amount of extra time, over cast if res’ing someone who’s got a group on them.

Oh traits.
20% faster, wont do more damage. Just more utility.
Greater Marks, is awesome in WvW. But trait cost into that line, is prob going to hinder most builds, excluding Minions.

Regeneration is based on the source (as all boons and conditions have a little “applied by ____” part) so no it scales off your healing power.

The “useless” aoe fear is the strongest (fractal) skill the necro has on weapons.
Also its nerfed, not nurfed.

25% movementspeed in ds is worthless (and still is even if it helps in the queens gauntlet), rather pick up 15% cdr or piercing Life blast.

Staff is a utility weapon, all builds based on staff mostly rely on soul marks and then using DS as the damage source (and indirectly staff since its the weapon that has the highest damage/attack thus giving us the strongest DS).
Also there are minion builds but they are better off maining axe even without the damage/cd trait.

Honestly, some content not being as easy to profession/class 1 as on class 2 or 3 is ok, as long as its fair on a baseline and doesnt require a “minimum dps”.
On the fair side, i dont mean damage or mechanics, i mean actual information and control the player has as a person, ignoring what your character can/cannot do.

Example would be if in melee Boss x doesnt do a instakill leap, but if at range, he spawns less adds or takes more damage OR if the player has no endurance/hp under some number, he will start casting skills that can be interrupted with cc (and with that i mean all cc not instant only)/goes into a exectuion mode that lowers his defenses to nil but allowing him to kill you pretty much instantly if you allow him to get to you.
Also camera and aoe indicators as well as spawns/other mechanics that influence the game have to have set patterns (just how the shadow blobs have a set rotation).

As for minimum dps, just like how puzzle games (should) have different ways to fix a puzzle and better adventure games multiple object interactions, boss fights used to have this idea of "x DPS, y Tanks and z Healers can do it, but if you do y DPS, z Tanks and x+y Healers you get the same end result but with a different kind of fight/playstyle (or in a strategy game, 2 builds using the exact same buildings but different order of units spawned changed the entire type of game you were trying to force the opponent into), what kinda died out with the rise of 3d and gaming for the masses; but ofc there should be things like enrage times not to allow for a 100% tank/healer composition or in GW2s case a 100% chaincc effect (as in defiant should be removed, but cc should not be chainable/bosses should have stun breaks that change how some fights go).

jalmari.3906:

DS flashing is ineffective due to the fact DS mechanics had practically total makeover without devs realising the total effect of their “little” changes, it seems… or they just wanted to make it so anyway. I am betting on latter since anyone with half brain spotted the possible horror of these changes long before patch hit live.

Its not the DS mechanics, its the traits that got remade, Foot in the Grave used to be called shade, being permanent stability and immunity to all slows in DS.

I dont really see anything unusual there, except something that applies to most of them…

Blaine Tog.8304:

Aatrox… I would hesitate to use as an example of good game design. Necro drain-tank carries could be really interesting in GW2, though.

That is kinda the reason why i picked him, being the more gimmick/controversial based “tank” one could use (could have put irelia, tryndamere or xin in there, but i like the big girly black dude with a living spine sword more then them), but still win results and opinion from the people good enough to comment on it have resulted in sorting him with cho and co for the kinda situational but always baseline viable characters that have a big utility kit that they can use for either massive damage with low surviviability, tank power to go 1v3+ and not die (but also not kill anyone playing just good as them) for long enough for a objective/event/other thing to be done by the rest of the team or a balanced mix of the 2.

Bonefield.9813:

Fungalfoot.7213:

Maybe they did the smart thing and just rerolled guardians.

But mechanically speaking some of these bosses are just way too difficult for certain classes. Necromancers have no ways to mitigate damage thanks to the shroud nerf and when there are so many poorly telegraphed instant kills thrown about… well, yeah, do the math. It has been almost one year since launch and PvE balance still hasn’t been addressed at all.

My wife just completed these fights on her Necromancer. My main is a Necro and I do just fine in high level PvE; he’s actually the character I have the easiest time surviving on, and I play a power melee build with Berserker gear. The only time I’ve actually noticed the DS nerf is when I forget it happened and merrily fling myself off something high enough to kill me.

I’m not saying this to mock you or brag. I don’t consider myself to be an unusually skilled player. But you’re wildly exaggerating, and Necromancers are in a better place than they’ve ever been before.

Here’s a video of a Necromancer completing the Light Up the Darkness achievement, with notes on their strategy: http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/1k0uds/did_light_up_the_darkness_necromancer/

Here’s another one: http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/1k1y2u/light_up_the_darkness_achievement_8_lights_on/

That is mostly a thing of perspective and how much you play a profession, i got the basic win and the 5 gambit achivement on my necro with a power spec (since lich is great and obv endurance food/energy sigils to make up for lack of dodge), since i plain suck at timing stuff on my ele and am bad at shatter mesmer clone rotations (also i like mantras), but some othe encounters were plain easier both on my ranger and thief when i went with them to farm for some bags since i played em a good enough amount of time to get used to their specific playstyles (even in masterworked gear).

Diamandis.7483:

Halloween to me was the best event to date since the game started down this dark dark path of living story and other events to follow it.

you got to enjoy some lore and story, we had a dungeon and a world that progressed with us the rewards were neat the mini games were a blast and they took the time to add in a bunch of other hidden content on top of it all. they gave us a purpose for those useless tonics and booster we have not a clue or use for and well hard to sum up my feelings on that event but 10/10 as where I would rate this Queens event to be a 4/10………… go away Queen you are drunk I almost wish at this point they off her and some tricky mesmer gives her a disguise as a bad guy only to see Logan charge into battle and slay her only to learn the real truth…. but hey getting players to rage and give feedback is nice. Maybe give players a survey to take on what they would like to see in this game what is important to them!

I think you are focusing a bit too much on the bad parts, MKT/Halloween was around a 9~10/10 in comparison to what would be the optimal living story patch, QJ is around a 6~7/10, it gave the hardcore players a good farm location for a week or two (before as everyone they get bored) since CoF got kittenslapped into the place it belongs, it gave the lore freaks some comedy and is pushing the broham and poxy roxy story along AND everyone who loves their characters/has a lot of alts has new skins to look out for or buy with the combined gold/karma/tokens all in the same place. It just made the already existing flaws of GW more obvious to the general public.

Btw, scroll that lets you enter still have a quite low chance to drop off any mob you kill, i got one from a shrimp in orr yesterday.

I dont think any real player is hoping for a nerf, just a bloody FIX of stuff that stops it from being fun hard to frustrating hard (and no before you say anything i got my mini).

Denial Of Service.5732:

were you here in the halloween cash grab? theres you answer if this is the most controversial update.

to answer you i think the most awful thing is you dont get any title for completing this. and thats what i find sad.. very sad.

Halloween was awesome, the skins were easy to buy off tp for less than 50 gold each during the first 5 days, the costumes and other items are still well worth the price (well not the finisher unless you kept one for now) and the clock tower was the best piece of content that is/was in GW2. Karka event on the other hand…. well lets just say that even if everyone who got kicked got free 5 legendary items, it still wouldnt have made it ok.

Sorin.4310:

If you are going to rebuttal people who disagree with you with “well even masochists like to get their skin burned”, then you are never going to get anyone who disagrees with you to see your point. If that’s the case, then you are just preaching to the choir, so I don’t really see the point of this thread that differs from the other "nay on gauntlet " threads

It wasnt about disagreeing (i liked the good parts of the gauntlet too), but plain ignoring negative effects and what consequences letting sloppy and lazy testing and design go free because of other good designed mechanics that make people remember stuff they used to play like the old metroid, deus ex, dragon warrior, zelda, etc that are difficult but awesome.
Also about the getting your skin burned, yes you will get your skin burned if you just drop burning wax on your skin without any knowledge of whats going on, thats what said examples above didnt do, but nintendo “hard” kitten and lazy/sloppy desing like the camera, aoe circles, rng based spawn systems and attack scripts do. Hell even demon souls, the most famous game for killing you over and over again has less examples of actual nintendo hard content than GW2 has (as in the trash mobs that instakill you all follow a exact behaviour script that you can probably learn 5 hallways before you even see them, also there is no timer on killing shiz in special ways).

Bhawb.7408:

Drawing from above, interaction isn’t just attacking someone, it is meaningful play/counterplay that adds fun to the game. Just because a Necromancer is in the middle of 5 enemies to maximize their attrition, does not mean that there is meaningful counterplay to it. The old Retal/DS tanks in beta are an example of this. There was no meaningful counterplay to them, attacking them caused you to die off to retaliation before you could drain their defenses and killed them, there was no way to stop them from sustaining themselves, and if you didn’t kill them they could sit on point all game with impunity.

First off it was a 7hp pot, 2 mana pot 2 ward start or even a invade with 2 normal and a pink ward (since most manaless and energy champs were balanced on the enemy having a limited mana and hp pool what wasnt the case) in any respectable elo.
Second retal was broken back then, cc was barely used as were boon strips (not to mention there was less of it) and Sarmor had a flat 50% damage reduction that you could proc twice with well pulses giving you protection, not what they then rebalanced before again nerfing it when it had counterplay.

Blaine Tog.8304:

Unkillable tank monsters are even worse game design. We need better sustain, but our sustain shouldn’t be so good that we don’t have to interact with our opponents. This was a big part of why the D/D Ele got hit so hard.

I give you the example of 2 league of legeneds characters, Cho’Gath and Aatrox, 2 defensive options of what i think necros could learn from, first off Cho, he is a giant demon who can buff his own health (DS) to kinda absurd levels if he kills enemies (with a specific move/life force) and his base build is on peremenent regeneration of that hp while having a high control/1 person kill potential, essencially he thrives in fights where he can control (and chill for necros) the opposition while focusing on a priority target that plain cannot run away unless designed to do so (e.g. thief and mesmer via blinks) and no amount of "burst can actually burst him, its coordinated waves of cc/kiting/dps that depend on his actions (if he uses his long ranged skill, push him back, if he is trying to stop you from attacking/getting you into his kill zone kite, attack as much as you can after he used his “burst” (in our case lich form/when we run out of plage and ds), thus making a hard to chip down, but cooldown based tank with passive low regeneration and no mobility and a good single target damage and sustained aoe

Second there is Aatrox
A combat high dps life siphon tank with aoe burst, essecially a low hp pool, medium defensive and mobility in your face fighter with long casts that change how much he can hit you for, how many times and how you can and/or must react, who turns immortal if nothing is done against him, can sustain trough burst/eat the inital wave and come back way weaker with a second life, but potentially regen back to full hp if allowed to do the damage.

Both could be viable ways to make necro sustain (being either a reliable control machine with a burst option, so you cannot kill it unless it can kill you) or a combat based immortal (so you can kill it, but if you drop your play/are sloppy, he is back to full and ready to kill), the combination of weaknesses we have of the 2 (long casts, combat based sustain, low resistances traded for potential effective hp AND long cooldowns on kill potential with no mobility and low sustain numbers) just dont work together.

Vermillion.1429:

First and foremost, the guys that make those videos are mocked by people in the games industry.

Secondly, I thoroughly enjoyed the gauntlet. It was enjoyable, it was tough, it was unique fights. Even with new mechanics it was easy to figure out what you needed to do.

At worst you would fail a fight 1-2 times if you didn’t understand immediately, such as my case with the fire rings killing you if you stepped outside them. None of the fights make you question what am I doing or how can I possibly beat this.

Lie/not true because all the rules in EC are based on statements from massive and/or popular dev studios (valve, THQ, old blizz, etc); Ok, but so do masochists like to get burning wax on their skin; not talking about fire rings that dont indicate instakill (even if they shouldnt if you dodge them because so far there were no mechanics that in game that worked trough evades if you could/did evade for long enough).

A-net has this problem since they were created, i say release 4 riders without spirit build, everyone who played GW1 should know how much of the good game design is covered with rng behaviour and bad camera/pathing/other minior issues that they could fix in half a day if they bloody cared.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Did they nerf the other ones too?

I don’t understand the nerf… the other T3 bosses take like 6 extra seconds…

Difference is, other bosses have instakill and/or mechanics that can screw you over because of lag and/or ai rng behaviour, ooze was kinda actually skill based (ccing/pulling him away from other ooze for less regen, trying to keep poison up, timed dodges vs whip attack).

I really dont agree on the GIVE NECRO VIGOR/INVUL/BLOCK part, not having those and smarter positioning (and what used to be smart use of DS) is kinda core of the necro playstyle, alongide with facetanking 40k mobs that hit for nothing and being a chill demon AND i know for a fact that they knew/it wasnt “oh bug we just noticed” but a ninja nerf to DS since the WvWvW orb patch added the fall damage clause to the DS absorb.
Even if they reverted every buff and nerf back to beta, but left the prot on wells and the 3nd incarnation of Sarmor (60 seconds, prot and 3% on hit), we would be fine, in pvp deaths dont happen enough for DS not to get 10% life force on death, healing wouldnt be a problem, with old DS we could port around/be good enough scouts (since it used to drop your body as if defeated and then you move off as the black goo, then port back to where you were if you leave/body ports to you if kicked out by damage) and this kind of fake mobility, a lot of DS related traits would be way more useful than they are now (like seriously who uses the 25% slower degen or 25% speed in DS? or the vuln pulsing).
Hell even Shade isnt such a big “oh its so overpowered he cannot be killed” in comparison to the builds that eles and mesmers can do (16/40 and 5/8 seconds of no hits able to do anything to em) – used other light armors in comparison for obvious reasons.

But overall there are things i feel need to be fixed way before they try fixing DS:
Defiant vs cc stacking, Pulse stacking (whirlwind and burnings speed to be fixed just like Death lotus was to name a few), Camera issues, Terrain movement, pulls, cc behaviour, more advanced/AR dungeon like setups but more polished (as in requirement for at least one person to be tanky, someone to be dropping both defensive condis, someone to boon, someone to be a condition damage dealer, etc) and last but not least, allowing for the less used/unviable builds to be used/fixing how traits impact the game.

TLDR – necro shouldnt get cheap way to migrate damage but be manly man that can facetank zhaitan jormag kralka primo mordi and bubbles all at once, with working minions

Lich form is a timed no charge weapon set, so like a bundle, it wont have a auto attack on equip.

What Bhawb said, but there is kinda a problem in design, with the new DS, flashing in and out isnt really a option, not only are you then wasting potential cooldowns from your weapon sets and utilites, but also allowing yourself to be hit by most chip damage (what you didnt want before for ds when it was a absorb) and seeing a necro flash in and out of DS is a giant mark for “please bounce me between 2 hammers and pink butterflies”, i have nothing to stop you from killing me and most reliable fear cannot hit you for at least 5 seconds (so a high risk, low reward build).

Skyguy.3715:

HardRider.2980:

You kidding me … Hybrid Power/Condition build is snexy… Bleeds, Cripples, Burning, blinding Good amount of DPS… Win .

lol It doesnt work as well as full condition or full dps. Go condition or power… hybrid is good for leveling and thats it

You know hybrid has the highest team dps if your setup doesnt overstack bleeds, right?

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a282/Dakkie-Boy/The%20guys/Guild%20Wars%20Lore/ScrollHall.jpg – Room
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj230/Azazel_90/Guild%20Wars/Points%20of%20Interest/gw005-1.jpg – Dragon
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20051026224434/gw/images/1/14/ForgottenMural.jpg – Forgotten
GO IN GAME, if you played it enough to know basic lore you got at least one location unlocked, proof is there.
Mists are the place between the worlds, Underworld, Tyria, FoW, etc are all connected with it you dimwit, just as earth and the milky way are connected with other solar systems trough the universe, that doesnt mean you can breathe in the void of space,
Last im saying Krait and Forgotten have a identical pattern in migration when compared and set against humans.

That wiki’s just one big ol’ fan-fiction. I.e., it’s not reporting everything to accuracy, it makes kitten up from time to time. From the standpoint of accuracies of the wikis, the official wikis are the most accurate – but even they, especially GW2W hold many inaccuracies. Don’t trust any wiki as a word-of-truth, since they can literally be edited by anyone and everyone into anything and everything. – thanks for being proof for your own point as the history on the wiki shows you edit it.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

@Andele: The Crystal Sea – which no longer exists and was an inland sea between Tyria and Elona – is vastly different from the Unending Ocean, which divides the supercontinent of Tyria/Elona from Cantha.

The Mists is more than just “a space in between worlds/realms” – it’s the building blocks of life as well as the afterlife, which means it is where the Underworld and the like reside. Besides, when folks say “brought from the Mists” they usually mean “brought through the Mists”. Does that clarify it for you? Must I use nitpickery vocabulary?

Don’t forget that there are three other naga types – one of which is very cobra-like, and another very krait-like. And besides, the one naga you link… still doesn’t have a human-like head. Sure, the naga have more human-like heads than krait (well, the caster naga do), but that’s not saying much when the other kinds of naga don’t.

And you should try using GW2 krait images, rather than GW1 krait images, since it’s point blank obvious that they got a total overhaul in looks between the two games. The krait in GW2 aren’t nearly as slim as the krait in GW1.

The Ascalon mural of the “dragon heads” doesn’t look like Forgotten. It’s most likely meant to be a depiction of Glint – if not just a random design put in with no lore meaning, which is highly possible given the state of Prophecies.

And I’ve played GW1, I’ve looked at those murals. That snake isn’t ever stated to be a Forgotten. Ever. If it is and I’m wrong, please provide an image or other source of it being stated to be a forgotten.

Look at comments above replied to everything you are just making a circular argument out of it.
Murals clearly state FORGOTTEN when you click at it.
http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/Forgotten – second image on page with links to the locations where you can see it (3 as it turns out not just 2).
Just as “From the mists” would imply something could actually live in the mists as themself (what even the gods cannot do, living in their own little pocket realms like the mortals of tyra do too) than came trough the mists from one realm to another.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

What you’re doing is saying that the Great Lakes is “more or less the same place” as the Hudson River.
You just contradicted yourself.

You claim the Forgotten aren’t from the Mists.

But then you claim that the Six Gods migrated them to Tyria like humanity.

Guess where humanity came from? That’s right the Mists.

And Naga skulls aren’t really humanoid at all. And krait cover themselves with clothing too, btw, and have “normal hands” (as normal as naga hands).

Nothing says that’s a forgotten, technically. This is a forgotten. Doesn’t look like that concept art.

And I wouldn’t put much stock on those “dragon heads” as being krait. The murals existed roughly 7 years before the krait look like they do now.

They are pretty much the same in terms of major geographical landmarks (if we downscaled tyia to their size) and biological connection and how species between them interact.

No i dont because the gods didnt summon stuff in the mists, the mists is a space in between worlds/realms as UW clearly tells us (you know the entire river of souls thing).
Forgotten just as Humans are a race migrated to Tyria; or is every mexican person in the US from the Pan-American Highway instead of Mexico?

Naga http://www.guildmag.com/wp-content/uploads/Naga_Shing_Jea_caster.png
Human skull http://www.daviddarling.info/images/human_skull_side.jpg

Krait (and forgotten as link shows) http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a338/GmrLeon00/Guild%20Wars%20lore/Krait9.jpg?t=1248250152
Snake Skull http://www.snakes-uncovered.com/images/viperskull6.jpg

You can also see the difference between fangs and hands on the pictures (forgotten being in between/the state current krait are at).

Also no those dragon heads i mean the old mesmer krait look suspiciously like those and the forgotten caster bosses (or for some reason if kralky had another minion).

Also Ascalon, go there (gw1) you get that image (mural in there) clearly saying forgotten or if you have it the guild hall using Isle of the Dead, you get the replica of it (copy pasted assets but for the sake of lore a “replica”).

To respond in order: he was (or at least the VA was trying his best/worst)

He doesnt doubt his decision to save the queen, he does the fact that he joined and then abbandoned DE, different things.

Anise is a tease, everyone who doesnt notice it on the first look (and her profession) doesnt really have the brightest light.

Id probably get kicked 4 times harder in a place that could be called the royal jewels if something like that were to happen and just so, Logan should have been executed by all rights (not only because Balthazar doesnt approve of cowards as we all quite know, not only from all the fights he caused in GW1 – hell pvp in lore exists because of his love for slaughter, but also the 2 missions that include his influnce that turns people into killing machines, but because he allowed a elder dragon to survive over a “true ancestor” of the human royal bloodline.

Current function: Drop mark on enemy, mark cleanses all condis from you and transfers them to all enemies hit (no matter the range), bugged not to cleanse allies, bugged in pvp to only transfer 3 of your conditions not all.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Rytlock’s view on Logan doesn’t seem to have gone back to how things were at the beginning of the game in the least. Nor does Logan go all emo again over the Watchknight’s pretending of being Rytlock – though it did open memories of old wounds.

Whatever about the rest (since yeah they could just be cheezing out of explaining the time line by giving a neutral “living story”), but how is Logan crying to Rox about how the kitty in armor “huwrt meh feevings”. Like someone needs to kittenslap logan till he either breaks and just plain works as a slave or mans up and takes responsibility of what he did, because a person that has doubts in his decisions that influenced others means that he had no right to even decide.

Erukk.1408:

I doubt Rytlock has romantic feelings for Logan. I just think he doesn’t want to deal with Logan’s lovesick swooning the whole time he’s there.

Noone thinks there is RxL stuff, its just that bad dialogue causes some very unfortunate implications that we should make fun off.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

The krait are not in the same location where Abaddon clashed with the others – that was the Crystal Sea, aka now the Crystal Desert. Krait come from the depths of the Unending Ocean – very different location.

You mean the giant piece of water right to the southwest of the Crystal Desert (and directly connected to it if you go to the southeast), the sea we sail on to get to the kitten Crystal Desert? Ok then New York has nothing to do with the North Atlantic because there is other land there.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

The Forgotten are said to come from the Mists, so it seems highly unlikely that they are related to the krait – just as they are not related to the naga (whom look more krait-like than the four-armed Forgotten).

Forgotten arent “from the mists”, just like humans, the 5 (or 6) gods migrated them to Tyria. Naga kinda obviously aint related to krait nor forgotten since they have humanoid skulls, normal hands and for some reason cloth to cover themself but not as armor.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

The krait seemed to have lost their metamorphosis (btw, not an evolution) between GW1 and GW2, as well as having lost their viper-like look; it could just be a redesign but nonetheless there’s another thread on that here. The leviathan are described as being their own kind of sea creature, so I doubt that they’re just a super-metamorphesized krait when we don’t see krait metamorphesizing in GW2.

http://bestgamewallpapers.com/files/guild-wars-prophecies/serpent.jpg – got your forgotten, now compare to the south krait dragon metamorph; btw it is evolution, because adulthood via physical mutations; aka metamorphosis; allows for a better genertical and hormonal exchange, thus it would mean if there is enough genetical variance it could end up with differnt types of the same race that dont depend on adapting in their larval stage. Btw amongst the murals and obelisks in ascalon about the human gods and forgotten we got a dragons head, a “forgotten” that surprisingly looks really like our current krait (spiky gauntlets/arms included) and a eastern type dragon but with full grown arms and legs.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

BTW, the Jade Maw is a kraken – either GW2’s redesign of the things, or a twisted form made such by the Mists. In the Solid Oceanic Fractal, we can even see a wurm entrapped in jade – this is likely the new look for the GW1 Leviathans. They’ll probably be made to look like the Undersea Wurms should we ever go to Cantha and the Jade Sea.

Didnt say it wasnt, just that it is probably a mutation (with the other 2 life forms we know that lived in the same zones and had a mostly symbiotic relationship) if we compare it to the old krakens that were just floating squids.

Thomassassinate.9370:

Necromancer should have a hammer, it’d be more original, and i can imagine a hammer of death, but i would want it to be a range weapon we already got daggers no need for close combat.

Right because it can totally cleave and isnt designed just to feed a DS build life force…

Phenn.5167:

Blaine Tog.8304:

Not impossible, if we assume the combat log doesn’t take this halving into account. Though I’m inclined to think this is probably not the case — we don’t seem to take proportionally more condition damage in DS than when outside it, and it strikes me as needlessly complicated.

This is exactly my point.

The percentage system that DS uses is very much needlessly complicated. The combat log isn’t a reliable source for DS damage in actuality simply because DS converts all damage to percentages, and then subtracts it from the total pool. Or at least that’s the way it was working back at release.

If they’re moving over to a points-based system (and thus removing the percentage conversion entirely), that’ll solve that.

But yeah – I’m simply looking at the whole thing as the crazy result of a raw-damage-numbers-converted-to-percentage-of-LF-pool problems.

EDIT: Also, the damage-to-percentage conversion would explain the weird difference between ConD and DD. Each has a different conversion rate. Ergo, far more complicated than necessary all to preserve the “percentage” deal.

We know for a fact that DS isnt working in % since they fixed SR and gluttony since the little 0.1 chips do add up; go spam dagger 1 for 10 finished chains, you wont have 86% but 88% life force its numerical (reason why power builds that still apply conditions are wasting part of their potential).
As a matter of fact, all systems that show in % are numerical values of resources (adrenaline strikes, endurance, LF) are just ui obstructions (as a lot of tooltips and combat logs show).

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Brayzz.6524:

Another big problem are the necro stun breakers (SA and SW) They don’t break stuns like “knock down” that makes it so much useless again.

Actually, what you’re seeing is a timer for when you are still flying through the air. This seems to be a new addition and I find it very welcome. No stunbreak works if you are still flying from a launch or pull effect and that timer prevents you from wasting it before it would have any effect as a stunbreak.

Its not a “new addition” its since they split pulls, knockdowns, pushes and blowbacks, some of them cannot be stun broken (and when you “can” you are already unlocked and using any instant skill allows you to move again even if it aint a stun break).
Sadly tooltips are stupid and dont represent what they actually are.

Lets go over Rytlock/Logan relationship – Hate, Logan saves him, Rytlock is swooning, Rytlock almost weeps when Logan “sacrifices” himself at Arah, Logan is happy Rytlock is kinda nor so kitten ed off at him anymore, now when Rytlock gets reminded that Logan is with the Queen all the time, he gets kitten ed off and manages to sound more feminine than the 2 charr he interacts with, Logan is all emo again over what happened quite the long time ago.
Please tell me how that isnt either a bad tsundere or the writers also making twilight yaoi/furry fanfiction.

Skyguy.3715:

Blaine Tog.8304:

Softspoken.2410:

Hey look 4 warriors did it faster.

I want Necro to be better, really I do, but it just isn’t.

No one’s arguing that Necros are faster, just that they’re reasonably competitive.

They arent even close to be competetive with warrior dps… They were like 1-2min slower then 4 warriors.. We hit like 10k on the last ghastly claws hit in cof and warriors can hit like 20k in cof with hundred blades. We are out played by every class and there is no reason to have a necro in a dungeon…

It wasnt even a full minute faster and the necro run wasnt even close to as smooth as the warrior (as expected since they probably didnt run it 40000 times before that).

Garenthal.1480:

Rytlock is becoming irritating. I thought his angst had been eliminated.

Imagine Rytlock saying this to you* S-stupid Gar-kun, its not like i want you to think of me as a ferocious and powerful charr instead of a jelly yaoi cat or anything like that, so dont get the wrong idea.

God now i imagine him as a gundere with all that Charr war tech.

MithranArkanere.8957:

Lyssa is two people in human form.

Lyssa is one person, that liked to trick humans with illusions when walking with em on orr, once upon a time she was two humans (but probably before humans got migrated to tyria by the gods) named Lyss and Ilya.

MithranArkanere.8957:

Nah.

Thieves, and Scholar should have quarterstaves instead hammers, that would effectively be hammers, but won’t look like hammers. So they’ll be hammers with skins that look more like staves, but without the decorations a the top, just the blunt parts in both sides. A hammer do not fit their theme very well.

Engineer and Rangers are the ones that could use hammers next.
Engineers because ENGINEERS. And rangers because there MUST be a ranger skill called “Thump” that has a visual effect with an actually bunny thumping, much like the “Maul” has a bear mauling.

As for torches I would agree. Masters of conditions will do great with torches, and there’s lots of “flaming” things in the themes that match them.
It could even be a main hand torch.

The horn, the shield and the torch should appear as main hand weapons in one profession each at least.

Assassins used only sharp weaponery trough most of known history, thieves having tools (bundles), even ninjas didnt exactly favour the bo staff or any variant of the quarterstaff.
Religious people tied to pagan and pre catholic influence minior religions mostly used actual weapons (and since they were in 99% of the cases also farmers so did the scythe get tied to them and the good metaphore of the grim reaper getting his harvest), not to mention the amount of historical figures people see as symbols for spiritual and mysterious legends not only using swords (and rarely shields), but also high collateral damage weapons for brawls and fights like hammers and polearms.
Engie hammer – makes too much sense (just as mace offhand) to say no, ranger one, nope, when did you ever see someone go hunt with a giant piece of blunt metal that does a shwoop sound and alarms everything within a mile once you hit something with it (even if the thump idea could fit a mace or dagger mainhand strike well).

Warhorns and Shields cannot be really used as weapons, no matter how much tech you add to it (like even the CA one off shield throw from the engie is explained by steampunk tech+magic on magnets).

Blaine Tog.8304:

Softspoken.2410:

Hey look 4 warriors did it faster.

I want Necro to be better, really I do, but it just isn’t.

No one’s arguing that Necros are faster, just that they’re reasonably competitive.

50 second difference can be in: portal stone jump, skill of person taking down the totem, what food people use, etc
Only comparison one might make and flat out say, necros are worse in CoF1 is vs Rangers that use the pet aggro exploit and have luck in procs from stacked spirits (since it can be done in a bit less than 4 minutes that way if everything goes perfect).

Google Krait and Leviathan GW1 wiki, the GW2 Leviathans are probably the more draconian krait, while the old actual leviathans are insects that kinda look like wurm/crab fusions related to the kraken and irukandji (Jade Maw and The Leviathan probably being some fusion/mutation/evolution of the 3 species).

Remember the Krait are from pretty much the same location at sea where Abbadon, humans and forgotten clashed, could very well be that some of the forgotten went trough unstable evolutions just like the margonites.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/images/0/0f/Krait_Hypnoss.jpg – Krait we know and love today for pulling us into hugs
http://wiki.guildwars.com/images/d/dd/Krait_Necross.jpg – Forgotten and Humans mixed pretty much
http://wiki.guildwars.com/images/2/20/Krait_Neoss.jpg – Largos like evolution line
http://wiki.guildwars.com/images/4/44/Krait_Devouss.jpg – South (kuunavang) Dragon evolution
http://wiki.guildwars.com/images/7/77/Krait_Arcanoss.jpg – North (elder) Dragon evolution