For those that dont have condition gear for some reason/have a hybrid glass cannot as their condi setup, going the typical minion 20/0/30/20/0 build with Blood, Bone, Bone, Shadow, Golem will kill it while you pretty much afk attack Subject 7.
There has yet to be a single high-quality public demonstration for comparative Necromancer DPS or even team utility in dungeons. That’s what people are waiting on: one good video to prove that a necromancer can speed up a run.
Nexromancers have bottom tier DPS (things like terror not doing any damage to bosses doesn’t help), and little utility other than maybe chills and cripples for certain bosses.
Of course, the last time I was on one of these bosses, the leader dropped a tray of food that let everybody chill on a crit, so I was effectively bringing nothing special to the fight.
Necros can and do sustain higher dps than full glass guardians, anything that isnt a arcane build ele and non spirit/shortbow rangers.
From all the professions necromancers have the highest team hp utpime sustain (perma aoe chill, almost perma weakeness/permanent if cpc slotted in, high blind uptime, 4 strong and easy hard ccs/dont work on bosses but 3 are aoe so good mob blocks for rezzing and the only profession that can be a offtank no matter what setup) and mid combat reliable utility (so something that you can always use for a good effect, but not something situational like a reflect for a overpowered effect).
People just dont value it over 40k popping up as a number for a 2 second channel.
Look at nemesis’s last video for a quite nice rant on that.
To this end…
I’ve been wondering if DS is supposed to halve any and all damage taken.
Logic being:
A. Pre 6/25, peeps tested LF pool to ~60% of HP pool.
B. 6/25 patch, Devs said Necros took double damage to LF while in DS.
C. 6/25 patch, Devs reset damage modifier while in DS to be what was intended (i.e. half of the pre-6/25 damage).
D. Tests post-6/25 seem to indicate LF pool has increased to 120%.
E. Devs say, “No it wasn’t—it’s stil 60%.”Put another way: If the LF pool was always 60% of HP, then pre-6/25, we took 1:1 damage while in DS. Post-6/25 we now take 1:1/2 damage while in DS (which is apparently what was intended).
Conclusion? Half the damage = double the hit points.
Here’s the thing:
Damage done to the LF pool while in Death Shroud is measured in percentages (i.e. we see a drop from a 100% pool regardless of how large that pool may be). If the damage-to-percentage conversion was double what it was supposed to be pre-6/25 (1:1 damage HP:LF), then halving it post-6/25 effectively doubled the LF pool (1:1/2 damage HP:LF).
So that ultimately means the LF pool can be 60% of your HP, but functionally, it works like 120%, because the damage-to-percentage conversion halves all incoming damage while in DS.
At the very least, that’s how it works out practically speaking. And is evidenced in tests. It makes sense to me – even if it’s not how it’s supposed to function.
No it doesnt since its not measured in , its measured in how much real (combat log damage you take pre LF lost, you still take identical numerical damage, but lose less LF as a %, if we had damage reduction in DS, the combat log would show lower numbers in comparison.
What? Pumpkin? WHAT?
Soul Reaping has no weapon, and the rest already had far more logical placements
cough DS is every power necros main weapon And yet in beta, i remember quite vividly, we had both staff cooldown reduction, mark life force and something with necrotic grasp crits that i cant remember and am to sleepy right now to check in what is now the soul reaping tree.
Woooooo hooooooooooooooo after trying about 100 times i changed to full condition damage and just kited him round the room and was so much easy, with power necromancer i just couldnt kill him, but condition damage just killed him and i just played relax….
JUST KEEP ON AND YOU CAN DO IT
Her, the necro final boss is a she…
By race:
Norn – Paintball
Asura – Roller-coaster
Sylvari – Spinning flowers in honey
Charr – Own theme park, with blackjack and hookers. In fact, forget the park!
ANet has a great opportunity now to make DS far more fun.
Hey you just nicked what i was trying to do with my trolly/comedy trait thread.
S-s-stupid!
what do you mean with ‘binding’?
Tshackles, Morgana ulti, Wisp, etc. If you mean what as a effect, easy all the damage they deal to DS is taken by them, but also all life force gained (what at 100% would be 0 unless you use it just for a absorb) heals them for 1/4 of the % value or something like that.
(edited by Andele.1306)
Sounds like they could potentially bring it back as a trait with a 30/60 second cooldown, perhaps after fixing the map so players couldn’t accidentally end up in weird spots.
I actually have really thought it could be good to have an Aegis on DS entry with some high ICD for balance. Every X seconds or something, entering DS gives Aegis for like 5 seconds, or leaving, or on DS expiration, but some Aegis-DS proc I think could make sense.
Gaining Aegis immediately upon leaving DS (or upon losing all LF) would make more sense since you typically WANT to take hits to your LF quickly and then get out. I wonder if it could be coded so that Aegis could block overflow damage. Gaining Aegis upon entering DS would be a much simpler way of doing it, it just has the potential to overshadow the DS itself.
Wouldnt any kind of aegis on DS just be a stronger DS absorb, i mean if we get aegis then people couldnt knock us out of ds with cc like they could with just absorb and can now to just not allow us to heal up/cc them back.
I do plenty on the power necro as well. On power necro I typically run 3 wells with the ritual of protection trait, so I have 3 skills that give AoE protection.
For specific fights, necros also have a toolbox of things they can use. If they need to pull, Spectral Grasp does this while causing chill. If they need to revive, Signet of Undeath does this quite nicely. For enemies with devastating boons, well of corruption and corrupt boon are always a plus. Against enemies that attack rapidly and don’t lump all of their power into single attacks, necromancers can be quite durable. Protection stacking and 2 health bars gives quite the statistical clout.
You all know i love the power and control over the enemy you have as a necro, but ritual of protection is kinda a bad trait looking akittens effective cooldown pre requirement, Signet of Undeath was a tricky thing even before the nerf, now its plain safer to bring bring a warrior, ranger or ele (longer cast, but more flexibility) if you really need a rez that much.
CB is worthless in pve (WoC isnt but just saying its not really a option anymore).
Also if you got a thief, mesmer or warrior, unless the enemy has spamming effects of protection/retal, just let them steal the buffs instead of ripping them.
Honestly best 3 things we can provide is WoB, Permachill and a good Epi vs zerg like mobs.
I’m not gonna sign it simply because they should have addressed the actual issues with our class from the beginning instead of forcing us to come to a quick fix to survive the big hits.
IMO they MUST address the vitality/healing/leeching issues instead of reversing something that was not intended for us in the first place. Now that the problem is more out in the open with our class maybe ANet will address the real problems with our class. However if all they are going to focus on is the PvP meta for the necro, we are all kittened.
It was intended, as a matter of fact it used to not work vs jumps till they patched it (on the patch when they removed orbs from WvWvW).
Simple topic for anyone to share kitten y/funny/maybe good ideas for traits (so more for what if and comedy than balance).
Mine would be:
Dhuumed Rules - Allows usage of Utility and Healing skills in transformations, but their recharge id doubled while transformed.
Icy Fortitude - For x amount of seconds after getting hit by a skill that disables, disable effects chill you instead.
Eldritch Resonance - Upon generating 100% life force, you let out a wail of sorrow, binding enemy hp to your life force for x amount of seconds
Zhaitans Reach - Spectral Grasps cooldown is set to 120+ seconds, but now pulls in every enemy within 1200 to you (via shadowstep, orr wraith picking up the character then porting) granding x% life force pre enemy.
Eve’s Gift - Minion summons are now channeling skills, summon more minions holding down the button longer, but each minion locks off part of your life force
Spite in Yore - Spiteful spirit trait is now called Vengeful Shroud and get the GW1 spiteful spirit unlocked as a Elite
Venomancers Call - Enemies with more than x seconds of poison on them cannot be healed (but you spawn no jaggered horrors from them)
Emotional Breakdown - This trait can only be picked up if you have Deathly Perception, gain 150% more power and the ability to equip greatswords, using a, elite or healing skill and any kind of character rotations causes you to shout: CRENDORIA! *Errata - Dont know how to play my class, still do 20k dps*
As someone who casually enjoys leveling his alt sylvari ranger with heavy influence/RP based on Arthurian history, my devourer and spider rarely die… but i didnt take him into really heavy aoe situations so its probably moot, one thing i did have to learn early on (with the fern hound) is swapping pets is vital.
A) You can’t use all of those at once.
B) I didn’t use any invuls/blocks/evade whirl/charges ect.
C) Stop blaming your failure on the profession and think outside the box.
To reply in no real order:
Hey i finished pretty much everything in the gauntlet except the no meat, 8 crystals and 5 gambit achivements on my necro via build changes, so no i didnt fail; yes you can use all of them and well then you fail at your own profession if you didnt use any of the tools it has, gratz on being a newbie.
*final little note for those that say my comments contradict eachother, no im just saying it takes less real skill to beat something with one set of tolls than with the other; also im not saying that thats fair, but its ok since you cannot perfect the toolset needed for content without making it trivial for someone else
Dark Souls = From Software, they knew what they were doing, every enemy have it’s weakness and you can defeat bosses even naked. Peoples were doing speedruns of these games.
Guild Wars 2 = Anet just put things mindlessly, they think that they’ll make boss with million hp and it’ll be challenging, it’s not challenging, it’s frustrating and stupid.
Get use to "challenges" like these, I’ve read one of the designer comments and they think they are design mastermids.They didn’t know what they were doing if you can kill it naked and at lvl 1 and you could 1 shot some of them if you stacked right. Great design bosses but still some major flaws in terms balance with skills and gear.
*cough comparison of warriors in pvp and pve of this game, 90% of the bosses being easier to cheeze than story mode vets, zerker 0 cc pve "meta"* Im sorry but no mmo can ever be as good in terms of balance as a rpg that was made for fun (what says a lot about the design decisions soft coded into the formula).
Things that popped up in the update despite previous kittenslaps to the devs the community gave:
1.) Chests on Towers arent personal, but global objects (so in 60% of the cases after running from the event you just soloed or done with like 3 other people you find nothing at it).
2.) Backtracking, if you missclick on tower, off to DR, if you die in gauntlet, spend a minute running back and (for smarter people that dont wanna be a waste of others time) on each zone event, run back for different protection/mf buff (since the chance of you dying to the centaur arrows goes from around 40% to 1% if you got the right MF buff on you).
3.) Bad/Low information for the players: Gambits dont show full statistical effects (e.g. tremors disabling stability), weird DR/scailing on loot bags/is the rarity/loot based of zone or your level (since neither seem to be true with white boxes sometimes dropping from the 6 bosses in the QJ while exotix boxes from the spider in Queensdale), AoE indicators on “some” bosses being terrible and melted with the ground.
4.) Blinding/interface screws that could possibly physically hurt the player depending on his graphical and monitor settings (have you ever heard of photosensitive epilepsy – aka mixing normal colors or white with random rapidly exchanging warm and cold colors of high intensity, yeah that can cause anything from a mild headache to the neurons in your brain getting essecially fried from the amount of info being transmitted and processed from your eyes) and in general combined with the aoe indicator thing above is very bad for colorblind people.
5.) Camera still not being fixed, no first person mode (despite how easy it is to edit the files to allow it) is ok if you dont want people to look at textures and other stuff from some specific perspectives or make a lot of jumping puzzles easier, but for gods sake please learn that what is behind the fourth wall doesnt exist, so locking in the camera to a GLASS wall (that we see trough as normal viewers of the gauntlet) is a terrible idea, all because of this – the first point in the link*
Did it on a glass *warrior* with no endurance food or endurance signet on my 5th attempt, had to respec to new traits though. You guys kitten too much.
The profession with 2 invuls against minion explosions, 3 second block, leap, evade whirl and 2 charges *clap clap clap* true achivement.
Wohooo!!!! We managed to avoid getting hit by the nerf hammer!!!
Where were you the last 3 months?
Don’t be an idiot Andele…I am obviously referring to THIS patch…
I should really add /sarcasam to my comedy since it seems that most of the interent doesnt get it… ;_;
Or just more good mechanics (food from dog/norn combined with something like the lazor run in CoE or the well/npc thing combined with the ooze spawns pre lower hp) combined while fixing said bug/cheeze/nintendo hard (good aoe indicators, fix camera, fix script pre enemy, not blinding the player).
Necromancers are fun for utility, reliability and mob control, but most of the community doesnt see that as important (for now, with the new mob and encounter designs i think itll change within 4 maybe 5 months).
*did finish all bosses and most achivements*
A few actual problems that come if combined with good hard content like this start being glaringly obvious:
Bad camera
BLINDING THE PLAYER IS BAD (and can cause headaches, burn eyes and in general maybe some siezures)
All achivements and encounters need to vary their scripts depending on the capabilites of the enemy (e.g. not acting the same vs a boon spammer like guardians, beefy monstertrucks like warriors, no dodge glaciers of control like necros or spam across the room everywhere stealth theif)
Chain cc, High hp and Instakills aint ok unless they are in a scripted enviorment that the player can control (e.g. ooze regen and random spawn locations would be really bad if it were stats buffed/with the handicaps)
Showing the actual aoe indicators (that shouldnt be half in the ground nor should they be the color of the ground) is very important, but visual or audio ques also help a lot.
Few things: Interrupt only means to actually stop a full cast skill on mobs, for some reason it doesnt apply to their basic and script based skills
Fear did show the “interrupted” when used on a defiant when used against them
The daze sigil fix might have ment that fear is now a different cc type (e.g. knockdowns from melee pulls dont technically count as interrupts)/something that doesnt count as actually interrupting a enemy (because for some reason daze, other interrupts, cancel and swap count as different things – and 3 of them cause marks/some aoes go on full cd)
I doubt that any dev is looking at necro forum posts as much as others, posting in bugs or support sections would probably result in, well actual results.
I managed to do it without energy sigils, but I did have locust. I’m a full condition build.
The fight is scripted so once you figure out the pattern to the death beams from hell you can just learn to stand where they aren’t. Dodges aren’t really needed. The hardest part is standing still long enough to pick up those stupid orbs, and throw them without getting clone slammed.
Also I found the fight much easier in a party where I could mark her so I wasn’t constantly tabbing through clones.
Did it on my (as in not edited for the gauntlet) build with out energy too this morning, it just took longer (almost till the floor opened), but i dont think you could stail it out for the second achivement long enough without dodging.
Though imo Candidate Trials had the wrong type of difficulty (massive hp pools) while Liadri has the correct type of difficulty (unforgiving mechanics, however, the fight can be beaten through high situational awareness and understanding the fight).
Though some classes have a much harder time than others (cough necro).
While i did enjoy having to change my build (wasting around 5 gold on energy sigils and endurance food for my necro), a few things that a-net continously kitten s up:
Interface screw – That blind caused me to have take a 1 hour break after the 4th try, right after i had one to be ready and take on the “final boss”…
Map problem – all from lag caused on worse net connections since its connected to the ground/zergfest, obstructed for some professions forcing them to melee orbs, bad design and location of aoe indicators, FREAKING WHATS BEHIND THE CAMERA DOESNT EXIST <- main rule of any art, especially in games that have platforming and spectacle fighters
Low counterplay – yes invul might be cheezy, but it should be a viable option for counterplay for other professions vs bosses (Just as DS shouldnt have gottent the absorbtion effect removed), the handicaps (armor reduction, exhaustion, tremors and quaggan) have terrible scailing (being worthless/ignorable on some fights, game breaking on others), Ring of fire not being evadeable, etc
And last but not least Why in hells name make a effect that could cause a stroke to a person playing on high graphical settings?
The DS crit trait might be bugged (noticed it during gauntlet when trying different builds for a 5 handicap ooze fight), down to being like 20%~
DS on the other hand still SEEMS to be the same, if youd compare the damage normal veterans to with the current content.
The following question isn’t directed at anyone in particular, but to try to point something out.
Does it remove necromancer’s death shroud? guardian’s virtues? mesmer’s clones? ranger’s pets? warrior’s adrenaline? elementalist’s attunement swapping? or the engineer’s toolbelt?
Can a necromancer blink over the entire arena with a single skill? Can a ranger have a total of 7 dodges chained together for no evasion downtime? Can a mesmer have the movementspeed of a theif? Can a warrior safely kill the orbs from range? etc etc
Seriously only profession that gets midly screwed over (by stuff that isnt general like camera aoe indicators blinding the player, etc) is necros since they need not only invest traits, but also buy 2 sigils of energy and the endurance regen food to finish T3.
Also… which aoe uses autotargeting? Marks don’t nether do wells or staff or scepter. O_o Unless you have some auto aoe casting option I never used?
No, what i ment that if you have autotargeting on, its ususally no different than manual selection since pretty much every necro opening cast (be it marks, Scepter 2 or Swall/CPC/Well bomb for pushing a target off a point/burst) is aoe, since they select the same target you would have (unless you are weird and only place the borders of the aoes on the target you wanna focus).
So did you complete it Andele? Im gonna try the gauntlet tomorrow i think.
What do you think? https://dviw3bl0enbyw.cloudfront.net/uploads/forum_attachment/file/93064/gw932.jpg (just look at the QJ posts and youll see how i still feel about it even with all the additional effects used).
Here is a quicker check…
see if you have autotarget on in your options
if you do…then you aren’t pro…
if you don’t you still might not be pro but at least you aren’t a noob.The most idiotic thing I have heard in a while. Considering necro has no leaps.
Considering leaps are not all that this is for, I guess you aren’t as pro as you thought you were. No need to bring idiocy into your posts though.
Well autotargeting doesnt really do anything for necros, most of our skills are aoe that then auto target the closes enemy to the middle of the aoe, so the location that youd drop the aoe onto a enemy in most cases…
Thanks to people like you, encouraging this thing, many hunderds of normal folks have to suffer from frustration and time waste.
I’m sorry you can’t faceroll it like you’re not even playing the game, but some people like challenge. It’s good thing we have an entirely separate achievement section and arenas separated from the main meaty content…
Oh wait, you all still complain.
Keep at it, Anet.
Challenge = using your wits/reaction to solve a problem.
Difficulty = making the actual process of solving the problem difficult.
Think how fun Mario would be if instead of fun and interesting jumping levels, the goal is right in front of you but you the process of moving and jumping itself is difficult and you can’t really tell exactly where you need to jump. You also aren’t exactly sure if what you think is happening is really happening or if it’s something else altogether. And if you move just slightly wrong, you die. That’s what the boss is, difficulty disguised as challenge.
You did actually describe the older mario games http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NintendoHard
Nostalgia goggles, I tell you.
The whole idea of “superficial” difficulty is pretty ridiculous anyways. Difficult is difficult, no matter what the cause of it is. And overcoming difficult challenges is what makes completion so satisfying in the first place.
Ok let me give you this example, there is a giant dragon that will fry you if you enter a cave, but in case 1 its never explained and a way around the cave is hidden as one of the 40 little rocks on the ground, while on the other you have the option to go left on screen and about 2 maps earlier you got a small message that tells you that flames bright as the sun come from darkness.
Now tell me what case is fair and what case is just fake difficult.
I did this on necro.
Screenshot or didnt happen.
For Salazan, which the person I replied to is complaining about? Srsly?? Considering there are other necros who have made it to the final boss (I’m one away.. needed a break), I hardly think that’s necessary :P
No for the necros, i mean i got it (and posted) but i still think it was 60% luck 30% skill 10% painful muscle memory… Especially since the blinds hit when i knew that the blobs wouldnt hit me and i managed to avoid all orbs in phase 2.
Thanks to people like you, encouraging this thing, many hunderds of normal folks have to suffer from frustration and time waste.
I’m sorry you can’t faceroll it like you’re not even playing the game, but some people like challenge. It’s good thing we have an entirely separate achievement section and arenas separated from the main meaty content…
Oh wait, you all still complain.
Keep at it, Anet.
Challenge = using your wits/reaction to solve a problem.
Difficulty = making the actual process of solving the problem difficult.
Think how fun Mario would be if instead of fun and interesting jumping levels, the goal is right in front of you but you the process of moving and jumping itself is difficult and you can’t really tell exactly where you need to jump. You also aren’t exactly sure if what you think is happening is really happening or if it’s something else altogether. And if you move just slightly wrong, you die. That’s what the boss is, difficulty disguised as challenge.
You did actually describe the older mario games http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NintendoHard
For ele condi viability, push that up to 3 or 4 since they have really high single target condition control (especially if combined with cc), as for necro bunkers dropping to 5 or 7 is better because, well kitten blowback, pull, treb hit, anything else pretty much that moves you off the point and you dont really have a viable way to counter it.
OK after 40~ tries (last 10 being with all of the following: Energy sigils on both weapons, Endurance regen Stew, Swalk, Signet of the Locust, 25% movement in DS – helps in stage 2 AND about a hour of being in the dark so that my eyes dont pop when the shiz does the epilepsy attack):
I did this on necro.
Screenshot or didnt happen.
Fix camera, make indicators not be in ground, remove epilepsy/stroke attack (make it just a blind on character not actually blind the person playing!) and i agree 100%.
Bahahahahaha, Cultist hammer is now in game!
The game delivers difficulty through cheesing rather than challenge. Instagibs by themselves aren’t bad, but when you combine them with poor telegraphing, this game’s fetish with instant cast AoE (no telegraphing them beforehand) and generally poor attack design (auto tracking missiles that deal ludicrous damage, hitboxes don’t synch to animations), it becomes a kitteneesey. You’d thinking this is something they’d address since launch, but nope! They design more stuff with that mentality…
Well, not really, the attack have telegraphs, problem is you cannot see them because of the camera and the freaking stroke/blind attack.
The AoE’s, Visions, and white circles spawn in the same location in the same order every time. That is the very definition of predictable!
Yes aoe is always in a 1/4 of the room and the visions in corners, but the white circles have rings on that they can spawn (edge, mid, close to liadra) and each arena has a different rotation of where the goo drops onto you.
Only problem imo is that is very hard to see AoE circles on that transparent floor.
And this
I didn’t have any trouble with her blinding light move, since if you follow the AOE patterns, it should never hit you, and counting to 2-3 seconds when she blinds you and dodging the damage is negated anyhow.
Ok then tell me how to see the patter on medium options where it melds with the ground (not just kinda hovering in it on high or being on low where since the fps limit and pixelization your eyes would be in pain anyway) if i cant pull out the camera more than 3 inches away from my character since there is the sodding roof to see the falling black goo whateveritsnameis.
Also its timed…
(edited by Andele.1306)
Only problem imo is that is very hard to see AoE circles on that transparent floor.
And this (but about 3 times brighter because of 120 hertz monitor).
(edited by Andele.1306)
Thanks to people like you, encouraging this thing, many hunderds of normal folks have to suffer from frustration and time waste.
Thats kinda the point of hard content…
If only they fixed the visual bugs (aoe indicators in ground, neon that burns your eyes and camera stuck on the roof, like basics of visual art 101, anything behind the camera/pov doesnt exist and dont do random flashes of different light as pokemons censoring of the porygon episode has shown).
Now it’s also suppressing my chat messages for a few thanks and np’s for ressing and getting ressed by people…=/
Please stop saying thanks and np when being ressed or ressing people. It’s annoying and unnecessary.
Its called manners, something that people obviously lack in this day and age (unless they wear top hats).
Best tips I can give are bring Locus Sigil for constat MS increase and use Spectral grasp to drag spirits into the lights.
For the spirit pull part, remember to use dodge right after or you get instakileld (since, oh my what a weird thing, Sgrasp works here and pull the target into melee).
I just realized that despite having done tons of CM runs, I have never actually fought the Centaur boss for real yet, and have absolutely no idea what he does.
LOL
Well nor have i, nor any necro i know off really; well at least i think so, maybe nemesis did it, but in general noone likes nor thinks CM is a good explorable dungeon, or worth the effort if you can cheeze it, full honest, it and arah story need massive changes in design (well not the arah pillar/maw fight).
There are four legitimate problems with the fight:
- Projectiles being obstructed on the Rifts.
- The floor obscuring the AoE circles.
- The camera colliding with the dome.
- Neon lights causing a headache to people/forcing them to play at kittenty fps (that still is bad for the eyes) not to get something like a seizure.
Every other mechanic of the fight is very fair though. Keep at it!
Seriously am i the only one who has this problem of having to lower the graphics just to be able to play past the interface screw part without actually causing physical harm?
Necromancers can’t mitigate the ridiculous damage some of these bosses put out. The class has no access to vigor, blocks or evades. You’re stuck with your two dodges and once you’re out of those you’re toast.
Well Signet of the Locust and 2 energy sigils are the only requirements for the necro, problem is you cannot burst the boss, mobs instakill spawning ontop of you is actual luck and the ui screws (neon light and aoe indicators being same color as ground unless you play on kitten graphics and limit your fps to 60) just make it really really hard to finish the first phase on a necro unlike it would be on a warrior or guardian, maybe even mesmer but i didnt try so far (wanna finish all meta achivments on my main).