Guild Wars 2

Nightingale.8364:

Oh anet thanks so much i can now play my ranger once more in wvw and have a chance. Get me on an AC and quick!!

Judging you right now…

TacoJoe.6083:

Ariames.5108:

Nice way of killing the game for the people who only play WvW :/ going to check out some other game to play :S

LoL is a good place to start if you want balanced PvP and a game where the Devs play the game instead of try to apease the QQers on the forums with little to no idea what their “fix” will break. I say the new game meta should be ACs surrounding spawns to farm them bags…get it coordinated on all maps and like a 5 man team to take the rest of the map…lol.

We’re actually considering doing this in VoTF. Camping the EB spawn on reset, AC’s on all 3 exits, lets see them tears!

Or the defence was just exceptionally bad…

Dovgan.8605:

Ravak.8912:

Aneu.1748:

How does it make a zerg split up? When it takes LESS people to defend than it does to attack how do you really think smaller groups will be able to cap anything? I mean really…

I don’t think he meant to split up and attack different objectives. Getting a tower (and especially a keep) should be a coordinated and group activity. Zerg could split into few groups and attack from different directions. Once one wall is down, each group would wait for other teams to knock down more walls, and only then simultaneously overwhelm defenders (as opposed to current “huzzah, wall down, rush to the lord” behaviour*).

• Going through a single choke point (which defenders are focusing on) SHOULD end in a disaster. As shown here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dE7UcSZuUQY

But that requires planing, organisation, and time. Previous WvW was SO easy (chu chu, karma train on the way). Well, times change and so will Commanders adapt. They will have to plan in advance, identify objectives, and assign roles (as opposed to current “build treb on me”, “push now”).

A lot of people complain about having nothing to do for small teams. Small team shouldn’t be able to capture anything (unless they use surprise). Small teams should focus on capturing depots (why you need 30+ people to flip a depot? waste of manpower), securing them, disturbing enemy dolyaks, or just roaming (disturbing enemy activity). Once you start bleeding a tower / keep dry enemies will leave their keeps and towers. They will know they need depots and dolyak routes running, otherwise they will get killed. With this system, the successful capture is dependant on such small teams doing their job. You get small scale fight while helping taking a larger objective. Win-win for me.

This guy gets it.

Gets what? Seriously… are people this naive?

You have 100 people that split into groups of 4, lets say these 100 are attacking Garrison… 25 on seperate gates… So what exactly will happen here? With arrowcarts on each gate it will take them a while and then what stops the enemy from blobbing into a group of 50+ and going out killing those 25 people then going back in and doing the same to all the 25 man groups… what exactly stops this? People are so focused on just siege defending and missing so many angles in this argument…

Dovgan.8605:

So you would prefer a roaming zergball flipping points over and over for easy WXP with absolutely no risk, that’s all you had to say.

I would prefer 30 man groups and specific guild groups running around fighting one another as opposed to people turtling inside of a keep or avoiding fights as much as possible. The most fun in this game comes out of characters fighting other characters not manning siege for hours and hours or going at a gate door with 12 arrowcarts on the other side raining hell down on you. I have in no way advocated zergs or blobs but these changes will encourage it even more while lowering the amount of smaller groups running around due to a single or double arrowcart being able to turn anything that isnt the entire map on a tower/keep.

Dovgan.8605:

Aneu.1748:

Dovgan.8605:

Aneu.1748:

Dovgan.8605:

So wait, with siege actually having some kind of meaning, it forces huge groups to break apart, hit in multiple locations, and look for tactical ways to take a fortified structure? Well now, that’s just silly. Why can’t we just get groups of 70 people to beat a door down with limited repercussions? Sorry, I don’t mind the arrow cart changes, as a matter of fact I think all siege should have this kind of impact. Forcing players to think outside the box and adapt is what a great game does. So will players need to intelligently prepare a siege strategy now, sure, but it beats the heck out of a mindless zerg ball bashing 1 to capture a point. The good commanders will adapt to the change and come up with the techniques that work, the zerg commanders will fail now, and fail hard.

How does it make a zerg split up? When it takes LESS people to defend than it does to attack how do you really think smaller groups will be able to cap anything? I mean really…

Send 100 people to one door or send 25 to 4 different breakable locations. Or split forces to hit several different locations. Set a diversion up with 25 while the rest hit another keep. Use tactical approaches and break out of the zerg mindset.

If 5-10 people can hold off 100 and 2 can hold off 25 then how exactly does this resolve anything? Surely if 100 people are attacking a keep that has 5-10 people inside it then it should fall! Defence should be done by PEOPLE not siege! Siege should supplement it, not be the defining factor!

The greatest defenses in history were very few holding off very many because they had a defensible location. If you as an army rush in without a plan against a group in a strongly defensible location and die, who is at fault?

Because we are playing this to re-create real life, right? NO!!!. We are playing this for fun and enjoyment!!!! I bet those very few had an arrowcart with infinite arrows!

Dovgan.8605:

Aneu.1748:

Dovgan.8605:

So wait, with siege actually having some kind of meaning, it forces huge groups to break apart, hit in multiple locations, and look for tactical ways to take a fortified structure? Well now, that’s just silly. Why can’t we just get groups of 70 people to beat a door down with limited repercussions? Sorry, I don’t mind the arrow cart changes, as a matter of fact I think all siege should have this kind of impact. Forcing players to think outside the box and adapt is what a great game does. So will players need to intelligently prepare a siege strategy now, sure, but it beats the heck out of a mindless zerg ball bashing 1 to capture a point. The good commanders will adapt to the change and come up with the techniques that work, the zerg commanders will fail now, and fail hard.

How does it make a zerg split up? When it takes LESS people to defend than it does to attack how do you really think smaller groups will be able to cap anything? I mean really…

Send 100 people to one door or send 25 to 4 different breakable locations. Or split forces to hit several different locations. Set a diversion up with 25 while the rest hit another keep. Use tactical approaches and break out of the zerg mindset.

If 5-10 people can hold off 100 and 2 can hold off 25 then how exactly does this resolve anything? Surely if 100 people are attacking a keep that has 5-10 people inside it then it should fall! Defence should be done by PEOPLE not siege! Siege should supplement it, not be the defining factor!

Dovgan.8605:

So wait, with siege actually having some kind of meaning, it forces huge groups to break apart, hit in multiple locations, and look for tactical ways to take a fortified structure? Well now, that’s just silly. Why can’t we just get groups of 70 people to beat a door down with limited repercussions? Sorry, I don’t mind the arrow cart changes, as a matter of fact I think all siege should have this kind of impact. Forcing players to think outside the box and adapt is what a great game does. So will players need to intelligently prepare a siege strategy now, sure, but it beats the heck out of a mindless zerg ball bashing 1 to capture a point. The good commanders will adapt to the change and come up with the techniques that work, the zerg commanders will fail now, and fail hard.

How does it make a zerg split up? When it takes LESS people to defend than it does to attack how do you really think smaller groups will be able to cap anything? I mean really…

Mif.3471:

Aneu.1748:

This will not happen! Why do you think it will? The easiest way to get around it is to get more people into one area! Not to “redefine the meta” of GW2. You are looking at this in a completely naive way.

If the only tactical solution you can find to this problem is once again “bigger zerg”, then perhaps you aren’t the tactical or meta genius you think you are.

Again reading what isnt there… This is what servers will do, its the easiest route around the siege buff but will be detrimental to those who attempt to run around in smaller guild groups.

TallDan.6350:

Aneu.1748:

sostronk.8167:

Aneu.1748:

sostronk.8167:

Im just questioning your abilities is all. I can and will adapt to a new build. No problem with it. I don’t feel the need to rage over it in the forums like im some kid in a supermarket chucking a tanty because mummy won’t give them their lolly. I adapt and I use what I have. Why is it you guys can’t do the same? Its what any player who is skilled would do. They play the meta to its potential. And like every game out there, metas change from time to time. And again the good players adapt. The bad ones go cry in the forums.

I don’t think you actually fully comprehend the ramifications of this change. VoTF as a guild has put an insane amount of effort into this game, into our meta, into adapting to every patch in order to retain the good fights we get. Those good fights have been reducing of late and now with the arrowcart changes those fights will be reduced to attempting to peel a wall/gate off more people in order to get them out to fight us.

If your adaptation to these mechanics reduced your game to the equivalent of pulling out your nasal hairs after you had put an insane amount of effort into the game – inclusive of behind the scenes feedback and contact with a plethora of people that assure you the game isnt going in the way of “siege wars” then how exactly would you react? Shrug it off? I can see from your posts that you are not the type of person to walk away from something or let something go, especially since your self proclaimed “adaptation” should have meant you wouldn’t come to the forums since you are focused on adapting as opposed to anything else and you especially wouldn’t come to the forums to complain about those complaining… Would you?

No, I am definitely “complaining about the complainers”. TBH im a little over the GW2 community, seems they have to complain about everything Anet does. I know there is alot of decent players in this game, but anyone reading this forum would assume that the vast majority of the community is composed of self entitled children.

I think your missing a few things in terms of tactics though and there is alot I believe you haven’t discovered for yourself. And in all honesty, I believe the previous meta of the karma train was much worse than what we are looking at now. And its pretty clear to me that you haven’t thought through everything before you have complained about it and you haven’t given much thought on how to adapt to it and simply continued playing the way you were playing before and since what you were doing before was working and isn’t working now it must mean AC buff is OP. This is why I question what I have questioned. Like I said, the good players will adapt.

This is not about adaptation, this is about the implementation of something that reduces the fun in a game to monotony! You may consider setting up a siege on a tier 3 keep for 6 hours prior to attacking “fun” but I consider it tedious at best and down right insane at worst.

Also if you think the karma train was bad then you need to look at how these changes will affect said “blobbing”, it will increase – not decrease it. You need MORE people to take a tower/keep now not less.

Why is this so hard to comprehend?

No the point is you need better tactics to take them now not more people. I am sick of people complaining about everything myself.

This will not happen! Why do you think it will? The easiest way to get around it is to get more people into one area! Not to “redefine the meta” of GW2. You are looking at this in a completely naive way.

sostronk.8167:

Aneu.1748:

sostronk.8167:

Im just questioning your abilities is all. I can and will adapt to a new build. No problem with it. I don’t feel the need to rage over it in the forums like im some kid in a supermarket chucking a tanty because mummy won’t give them their lolly. I adapt and I use what I have. Why is it you guys can’t do the same? Its what any player who is skilled would do. They play the meta to its potential. And like every game out there, metas change from time to time. And again the good players adapt. The bad ones go cry in the forums.

I don’t think you actually fully comprehend the ramifications of this change. VoTF as a guild has put an insane amount of effort into this game, into our meta, into adapting to every patch in order to retain the good fights we get. Those good fights have been reducing of late and now with the arrowcart changes those fights will be reduced to attempting to peel a wall/gate off more people in order to get them out to fight us.

If your adaptation to these mechanics reduced your game to the equivalent of pulling out your nasal hairs after you had put an insane amount of effort into the game – inclusive of behind the scenes feedback and contact with a plethora of people that assure you the game isnt going in the way of “siege wars” then how exactly would you react? Shrug it off? I can see from your posts that you are not the type of person to walk away from something or let something go, especially since your self proclaimed “adaptation” should have meant you wouldn’t come to the forums since you are focused on adapting as opposed to anything else and you especially wouldn’t come to the forums to complain about those complaining… Would you?

No, I am definitely “complaining about the complainers”. TBH im a little over the GW2 community, seems they have to complain about everything Anet does. I know there is alot of decent players in this game, but anyone reading this forum would assume that the vast majority of the community is composed of self entitled children.

I think your missing a few things in terms of tactics though and there is alot I believe you haven’t discovered for yourself. And in all honesty, I believe the previous meta of the karma train was much worse than what we are looking at now. And its pretty clear to me that you haven’t thought through everything before you have complained about it and you haven’t given much thought on how to adapt to it and simply continued playing the way you were playing before and since what you were doing before was working and isn’t working now it must mean AC buff is OP. This is why I question what I have questioned. Like I said, the good players will adapt.

This is not about adaptation, this is about the implementation of something that reduces the fun in a game to monotony! You may consider setting up a siege on a tier 3 keep for 6 hours prior to attacking “fun” but I consider it tedious at best and down right insane at worst.

Also if you think the karma train was bad then you need to look at how these changes will affect said “blobbing”, it will increase – not decrease it. You need MORE people to take a tower/keep now not less.

Why is this so hard to comprehend?

MagnusLL.8473:

Aneu.1748:

Those good fights have been reducing of late and now with the arrowcart changes those fights will be reduced to attempting to peel a wall/gate off more people in order to get them out to fight us.

So what do you think of untrebbable trebs? Because I haven’t seen any feedback from you on the actual proposal until now.

Do you mean trebs inside a tower/keep or those on the field? The problem with attackers attacking a keep is that people can suicide onto your trebs and take them out, there is a finite amount of supply you have and trebs require quite a bit of supply so a continual trail of people suiciding (not fighting just running through to kill treb) will become even more prolific than it already is.

sostronk.8167:

Im just questioning your abilities is all. I can and will adapt to a new build. No problem with it. I don’t feel the need to rage over it in the forums like im some kid in a supermarket chucking a tanty because mummy won’t give them their lolly. I adapt and I use what I have. Why is it you guys can’t do the same? Its what any player who is skilled would do. They play the meta to its potential. And like every game out there, metas change from time to time. And again the good players adapt. The bad ones go cry in the forums.

I don’t think you actually fully comprehend the ramifications of this change. VoTF as a guild has put an insane amount of effort into this game, into our meta, into adapting to every patch in order to retain the good fights we get. Those good fights have been reducing of late and now with the arrowcart changes those fights will be reduced to attempting to peel a wall/gate off more people in order to get them out to fight us.

If your adaptation to these mechanics reduced your game to the equivalent of pulling out your nasal hairs after you had put an insane amount of effort into the game – inclusive of behind the scenes feedback and contact with a plethora of people that assure you the game isnt going in the way of “siege wars” then how exactly would you react? Shrug it off? I can see from your posts that you are not the type of person to walk away from something or let something go, especially since your self proclaimed “adaptation” should have meant you wouldn’t come to the forums since you are focused on adapting as opposed to anything else and you especially wouldn’t come to the forums to complain about those complaining… Would you?

MagnusLL.8473:

Aneu.1748:

Because previously it took 12 people to hold off 30-40 people, now it takes 4!

That’s good. That’s anti-zerg.

And yes, I know the objection which is flying around now is “no this is pro-zerg, it will make people zerg even more”.
By that logic, you cannot do anything at all against zergs, because whatever you do, hey, people will just zerg even more to counter it!

The only type of mechanic which could avoid it is same kind of ability (whether on siege or character skills) which gives more damage the more people get hit in its radius. And while I’d be all for it, Arenanet has the problem that WvW gets treated the same as PvE and any such ability would be ridiculously op in their PvE content.

That said, I certainly wouldn’t mind if they implemented something like that. But I still think stopping a STUPID zerg with 4 people is a good thing.

What you fail to understand is that if 40 people can’t do it, then who can? … wait for it… think a little… just a little harder… YES THATS RIGHT! MORE PEOPLE!

Zoel.9154:

also

just asking a serious question here

for those who think karma is like, super cereal important and clearly why we go after towers

…. what uh… what do you spend karma on? Jewel boxes?

Karma trains are so last year…

Zoel.9154:

but aneu think of how short queues might be this reset

and how much less skill lag

And how many more people will be sat inside their tower/keep behind an arrowcart waiting to feel “pro”.

sostronk.8167:

MiLkZz.4789:

Pavel.5192:

i see a lot of crying players on this WvW forum, its main difference (i im rly surprised they are from pro guilds)
in game, i did have to change my confusion mesmer, cause its useles now, and i like ac buff, cause Anet prolongated battles under/at towers, keeps
i rly dont know what to do with ac on Vabbi, but i have to adapt, sooon!

Don’t you get it? The ‘pro’ guilds want to fight players, not stand next to trebs and (maybe?) catas and watch it endless animation for hours on end. Give me 1 reason, just 1 reason why the enemy should leave a tower/keep to fight in the open?

This game is now siege wars, not pvp at all, just siege vs structure. And when you finally busted that gate, you get insta melted by the AC concentration. There is 0 fun left in WvW. I hope the big/ good guilds step up and decide to change to game themselves, meaning move to bottem servers and go for GvG and not for points.

They aren’t pro guilds. Maybe a few players in those guilds make money from streaming but thats about it. There aren’t any full guild worth lifting my eyelids for in this game like there are in other games. There is this PvP in this game where there are no trebs at all. Its called sPvP. Where are these so called “pro guild”? In WvW running the karma train. They are just amateurs who want their egos stroked to feel like they are awseome in game. WvW is not designed to be a truly competitive format. Thats what sPvP was and is for.

Maybe not on American servers…

And yet again someone is making the assumption that THERE IS ONLY 1 ARROWCART.

Superior arrowcarts cost 40 supply to build, you can put an insane amount in a very small area and they are even more devastating now since they reach over double the length of the 1000 range of siege limit! I managed to get 12 prior to the buff, now I am sure I could get more to hit around a door…

So even if you destroy 4 on the ramparts that is still 8 you need to contend with that requires trebs which can be counter treb’d and not defended by swirls or any deflection.

Im tired of having the same redundant argument over and over with people who think this is ok for the game! Its really not and you will see that eventually.

MagnusLL.8473:

Teel.9036:

Both your proposals are unrealistic, in real life a trebuchet would deal damage to another trebuchet for example and not be immune to it somehow. And the thought of “global supply” isn’t either realistic, you can hopefully figure out in what way.

Who cares about realism? We’re talking about how making the game more fun here. Or at least, I do.

Aneu.1748:

Try facerubbing 12 pre-nerfed arrowcarts… sure…

So you’re telling me that all that is changed is that now you need 4 instead of 12? If that’s the case, why all the rage?

Because previously it took 12 people to hold off 30-40 people, now it takes 4!

Try facerubbing 12 pre-nerfed arrowcarts… sure…

sMihaly.1492:

What you can do is:
Use thiefs’ shadow refuge, stack up stealth, and build a counter AC before they even notice you are there. You can do anything by puting aside the mindless zerging “strategy”. If you lead the blob to a tower with AC-s in it, its like leading golems to oil pots.

You cannot stealth build sites…

highlandria.7941:

Guys it is very easy to counter the ac’s. this is what you got to do.
Get 40 players.
Get 50g
Build 10 omegas.
Put 10 mesmers in omegas.
Break the gate.
Omegas go in and spread to 10 different spots.
All 10 mesmers get out of omegas.
Find the best route to get back to your 20 players.
Port them all in.

Hope you enjoy.

More clueless individuals. Port has a limited range on top of this almost all keeps/towers have a bottleneck perfect for arrowcarting (inside) so your plan is flawed, also those who fall for portal bombs are just bad at playing… like really bad…

ammayhem.5962:

Aneu.1748:

ammayhem.5962:

Aneu.1748:

With the ability to put 12 arrowcarts on a single door, adding poison to an arrowcart resulting in 33% less healing, increasing arrowcarts damage by 80%, with arrowcarts being so easily built with such small amount of supply required and increasing the time within which bleed stays on you from a cart… how do you think this is a positive addition to WvW?

I cant even … Im utterly dumbfounded at why someone at arenanet would think this is a good idea…

As I said in another thread, I see two arrow carts and 10 unfinished blueprints.

The relevance of this is what? They count towards the seige limit and are all arrowcarts that I placed myself in positions to hit attackers, just because I didnt waste supply to build them all has no bearing on the discussion.

Just curious as to how those 10 can hit attackers when they aren’t built. Also, what relevance is it here that they count toward siege limit?

Why have i even got to explain this?

They have been placed meaning thet can be built, thet can be built meaning they can be manned, they can be manned indicating they can do damage, they can do damage which results in deaths… 12 of them… average of 2k damage per second in defence of a single gate…

Anything clicked yet?

ammayhem.5962:

Aneu.1748:

With the ability to put 12 arrowcarts on a single door, adding poison to an arrowcart resulting in 33% less healing, increasing arrowcarts damage by 80%, with arrowcarts being so easily built with such small amount of supply required and increasing the time within which bleed stays on you from a cart… how do you think this is a positive addition to WvW?

I cant even … Im utterly dumbfounded at why someone at arenanet would think this is a good idea…

As I said in another thread, I see two arrow carts and 10 unfinished blueprints.

The relevance of this is what? They count towards the seige limit and are all arrowcarts that I placed myself in positions to hit attackers, just because I didnt waste supply to build them all has no bearing on the discussion.

defrule.7236:

Do people not want resistance at all when taking towers?

Before the update arrowcarts barely hurt at all.

Ok

Heijincks.9267:

Okay sure, let’s just say I was ignorant about the stuff about catapult positioning. That said, it wasn’t exactly my point to begin with, it was a side argument. My original point coming to this post was that this is meant to end zerg facerubbing.

Regarding the catapults, I am saying that with the introduction with the new arrow carts, catapults can be used on the walls of objectives (all objectives, not just exclusive to large objectives such as keeps) instead of the gate, far out of reach from the arrow carts. Yes, they’re not in your “good positions”, but given the new arrow carts, they’re viable positions to be built in.

I don’t think the catapult can be countered in every single position by arrow carts alone given the large range difference. Yes, they’ll be more vulnerable to other factors, but the position wouldn’t be destroyed by arrow carts.

I believe the new range on a fully upgraded arrowcart is 3500 (confirmed) which is only 500 less than a cata. The spots I have listed are totally not viable anymore in the game. These spots were put in originally as a cata spot. We then have the issue with Treb’s only being counter-able by counter-trebs which makes defence far more overpowered and turtling that much more worth while.

Swirling no longer protects cata’s, skilled and effective cycling of people using swirling is no longer encouraged, you cannot tank a fully sieged gate so skilled and effective skill usage of groups is not encouraged. The only thing encouraged in this patch is to zerg even more because Arrowcarts are that much more overpowered now meaning you actually need MORE people to take an objective as opposed to less…

If an Arrowcart can stop a group of 60 people on a tower/keep then why the hell does someone think a group of 30 will attempt it? or a group of 20? The only eventuality is for LARGER groups to attack.

BlackBeard.2873:

Haven’t seen this update in practice, but, in theory, I like that defense now has an advantage. It makes sense that you have to set up your own counter-seige to take out enemy firepower first. Slapping yaks and controlling camps also becomes more important. Maybe the maps will need to be modified to allow a reasonable ballista spot to take out AC’s, or allow for mobile mortars that do great damage against seige, but this is moving in a great direction! Superior numbers might not just rule the day 100% of the time now. Strategy is a good thing.

Again someone sorely misinformed. Defence has always had an advantage! Its whether you were capable enough to use that advantage or not. Siege is not meant to defend a tower on its own, people are meant to defend objectives… sadly the person at Arena-net who decided on these Arrowcart changes didn’t get that memo.

Heijincks.9267:

By the way, walls typically also take longer to take down than gates. Players tend to go for the path of least resistance.

This is where I start to get irked by some people. Cata’s do almost double the damage to a wall than they do to a gate. If you line a cata up against a wall and a gate and hit both then the wall will go down first – The only time this changes is when a keep/tower is fortified (and a gate is reinforced) and even then the difference is minimal.

Please in future do your research before you come out with absolute insanity in a thread and just make yourself look very dim.

Heijincks.9267:

Aneu.1748:

Heijincks.9267:

Aneu.1748:

loseros.5912:

Imagin what 5 arrow carts could do… 5k-7k dmg per second per 50 people Noone could stand in a gate area anymore… lol.

On top of that the range increase negates the good cata spots also. Such a well thought out addition to WvW.

Like I said before, are the “good” catapult spots relative to the gate or the walls? Arrow cart max range is 2500. Catapult has 4000 range.

If the “good” catapult spots are relative to the gate, then your point is moot.

ACs now hit Cata’s on the south ruins in borderlands, hit cata spots inside garrison, hit cata’s on the west side of the north east tower on borderlands, hit cata’s on the siege spot of the north west tower also, these were spots created specifically for cata’s which are now effectively useless due to the range increase.

According to whom?

You didn’t answer my question though. As far as catapults are concerned for breaking through objectives, are they good spots relative to the gate or wall?

If you hadn’t already looked up then go look at some previous posts regarding new maps. Each map was created with specific spots in place for Cata’s/balista/treb and so on, higher plains and so on to allow counter trebs/balista/cata’s also.

Also in regard to that question, Cata’s are more effective on walls than they are on gates so what do you expect they would be hitting? All the spots I listed are against walls although splash damage can hit a gate if you want it to on 2 of said objectives.

This is my point, you wade into a conversation without having all the information required to make an educated input, I don’t expect you to go study this stuff but at least have a decent understanding of how this game was created, what went into creating the maps and how siege was initially introduced (all of which can be found via google if you were to look).

Heijincks.9267:

Aneu.1748:

loseros.5912:

Imagin what 5 arrow carts could do… 5k-7k dmg per second per 50 people Noone could stand in a gate area anymore… lol.

On top of that the range increase negates the good cata spots also. Such a well thought out addition to WvW.

Like I said before, are the “good” catapult spots relative to the gate or the walls? Arrow cart max range is 2500. Catapult has 4000 range.

If the “good” catapult spots are relative to the gate, then your point is moot.

ACs now hit Cata’s on the south ruins in borderlands, hit cata spots inside garrison, hit cata’s on the west side of the north east tower on borderlands, hit cata’s on the siege spot of the north west tower also, these were spots created specifically for cata’s which are now effectively useless due to the range increase.

Too many people have already scuppered into this thread and started dribbling on their keyboard at the thought of destroying a zerg solo with an AC, what they fail to realize is the detriment this has to the entire game, especially due to the placement planning that was previously in place that has now been totally wiped aside due to the range increase, let alone the fact the damage increase is insanity in a box.

loseros.5912:

Imagin what 5 arrow carts could do… 5k-7k dmg per second per 50 people Noone could stand in a gate area anymore… lol.

On top of that the range increase negates the good cata spots also. Such a well thought out addition to WvW.

sostronk.8167:

Aneu.1748:

sostronk.8167:

Strange to see people opposed to this. Its one of the few changes I actually completely agree with. I like what it does to the current mentality and finally defending will be of some use. Perhaps this would be less prevalent in lower tiers, but AC was really doing nothing in Tier 1 99% of the time. Doors were being busted down on 30-60 seconds and the 3 players manning AC were completely ignored. Now its not just a rush the door affair and people need to think and play a little more tactically.

PS. With the current siege cap problem, Id advise against placing 9 AC on one wall :p

Why the hell should 3 AC’s be able to hold off a zerg!?! Why are people thinking this is how GW2 should be?! You should have people there to fight them! With some siege for support, siege should NOT defend the keep for you, do it with your kitten characters!

Its not there to stop the zerg. Its there to delay them and to add more tact to attacking a building rather than running up to it at point blank range and bursting it down with no thought whatsoever.

If you allow enemies to point blank face-bash the door down on your towers/keeps then you are doing something seriously wrong, why not… I dont know… Maybe go out and fight them? I know its an alien prospect but it works sometimes!

sostronk.8167:

Strange to see people opposed to this. Its one of the few changes I actually completely agree with. I like what it does to the current mentality and finally defending will be of some use. Perhaps this would be less prevalent in lower tiers, but AC was really doing nothing in Tier 1 99% of the time. Doors were being busted down on 30-60 seconds and the 3 players manning AC were completely ignored. Now its not just a rush the door affair and people need to think and play a little more tactically.

PS. With the current siege cap problem, Id advise against placing 9 AC on one wall :p

Why the hell should 3 AC’s be able to hold off a zerg!?! Why are people thinking this is how GW2 should be?! You should have people there to fight them! With some siege for support, siege should NOT defend the keep for you, do it with your kitten characters!

Heijincks.9267:

Caliban.3176:

Heijincks.9267:

The only thing this patch does is that it decimated PvDooring. People aren’t used to it, especially large guilds who PvDoored for most of WvW. Almost every break in resulted from PvDoor.

Of course we’d hear complaints. I’m not surprised since it’s day 1. People tend to be conservative when it comes to games.

However, people adjust. Eventually PvDoor will become a thing of the past and alternate, possibly more effective strategies to take objectives will become more prominent.

To be honest, I’m glad PvDoor is coming to an end. It’s tiring and mindless.

PvDooring is a term that suggest that your only opponent is the door because you attack while other players aren’t there. This patch will not touch PvDooring. It will attack what is commonly known as Facerubbing though.

You almost insulted several great skirmish guilds as PvD players and they most definitely are not.

This will end facerubbing and it will also end any group smaller than 30 to take anything that is even remotely defended. It will slow down the action of the entire WvW scene will decrease the amount of fights in the game. Basically everything people didn’t want.

People wanted to end zerging (this will NOT do that).

A 20 man guild group could outheal 4 AC and 6 AC’s if they were well coordinated. I do not see what is wrong with that. That sounds perfect to me, add to that however that there was a cripple and also a bleed on the AC. If anything the arrow cart has always been a bit too powerful.

I wouldn’t say it punishes smaller groups either. Remember that arrow carts are most effective when players are all clumped up which can result from uncoordinated play. Smaller groups compensate this easily since they tend to be more coordinated.

I don’t think you fully grasp the severity of these changes – Especially after reading this. Let me lay it out.

Damage has been increased. Range has been increased, Radius has been increased. So whether people are clumped up or not is really not an issue. If people want to attack a gate then they need to get together in order to put supply on a piece of siege, now most of the good cata spots are within arrowcart range, arrowcarts that so 2k damage per hit per second. Is anything starting to dawn on you yet? Whether its a group of 50 people 30 or 10 the arrowcart will sufficiently nullify them, especially smaller numbers.

My personal feeling is that siege is there to supplement defence, not defend in its entirety otherwise what is the point of WvW if 3 people on AC’s can defend against groups of 30+?

Svarty.8019:

Aneu.1748:

Arenanet really screwed up with this patch they are about to lose a huge amount of players.

Frankly, I would endorse Arenanet’s quite justified response if it were akin to, “Arrowcarts are fine. Cya quitter, don’t let the door hit you in the kitten on your way out!”.

PvDoor is fun!

Feydra.6318:

Warscore, and this is where i think it all boilsdown to, before this upgrade, being the “biggest” zerg entailed you a bandwagon off loot bags and captured towers keeps, and the karma and score points rolled in, fun times!

Everyone wanted to be in that zerg, couse it was just bonus, suddenly the towers and keeps have the potential to murder a zerg, wich means, people will want to be in towers and keeps, as its aslo a asset for sudden loot, and not just get rofl stomped by the zerg…

Maybe the ACs do to much damage, but something had to be used to counter the pack all in one spot tactic, its just silly

There are people here who run in guild only groups, people like us (VoTF) and RG and plenty of others guilds who focus on small scale (around 25-30) so why do you continue talking about zergs? Its not just effecting zergs!

Golem shield doesnt deflect AC’s. Sorry

For more check out www.votf-online.net !

Feydra.6318:

Aneu.1748:

Feydra.6318:

Caliban.3176:

Feydra.6318:

Its just great change it is anti zerg, if you stack up in a tight blob, a other team drops ACs in the field and quickly builds up, you are going to be sloughtered, wich is great, you have to spread out, wich makes perfect sense, lets see we cram as many as we can in one spot, as player abilities only can affect 5people, lol… its anti zerg if anything regardless of where

I’ll do this yet another time, tell me where I go wrong.

Arrowcart is much stronger now and hits 50 people very hard. It makes it a lot harder for groups of 30+.

It also hits groups of less than 30. It hits them so hard and they cannot escape from it (easier to keep pressure op on 5 players and hunt them with an arrowcart than do that for 20 people).

It comes down to this. It does make zerging harder. But it destroys everything that is not a zerg. So basically everyone is forced to zerg despite it being harder.

yes if you pack yourself in ONE spot, you will be murdered wheter your in tower or in the field, wich makes perfect sense…

As attacker you need to spread out, you need to place multiple catas and balistas to keep tower pinned down, while you SIEGE it, you probably want to place a defensive ACs to protect your people thats sieging IF they try to break out, and or send a rescue force…

And that is sieging, you spend resources exactly as the people that upgrade the tower to T3, not just droppping three rams for a measly 45silver… now its going to cost you

They rush your siege, suicide onto it, kill it, respawn, run back while they keep people on arrowcarts… again i fail to see your point.

Then place more siege, people in the tower dont have it so easy to stock up on supplies, while you can send people to get new, whats the problem ?

AC’s that are unreachable inside a tower/keep… sense you make none!

Feydra.6318:

Caliban.3176:

Feydra.6318:

Its just great change it is anti zerg, if you stack up in a tight blob, a other team drops ACs in the field and quickly builds up, you are going to be sloughtered, wich is great, you have to spread out, wich makes perfect sense, lets see we cram as many as we can in one spot, as player abilities only can affect 5people, lol… its anti zerg if anything regardless of where

I’ll do this yet another time, tell me where I go wrong.

Arrowcart is much stronger now and hits 50 people very hard. It makes it a lot harder for groups of 30+.

It also hits groups of less than 30. It hits them so hard and they cannot escape from it (easier to keep pressure op on 5 players and hunt them with an arrowcart than do that for 20 people).

It comes down to this. It does make zerging harder. But it destroys everything that is not a zerg. So basically everyone is forced to zerg despite it being harder.

yes if you pack yourself in ONE spot, you will be murdered wheter your in tower or in the field, wich makes perfect sense…

As attacker you need to spread out, you need to place multiple catas and balistas to keep tower pinned down, while you SIEGE it, you probably want to place a defensive ACs to protect your people thats sieging IF they try to break out, and or send a rescue force…

And that is sieging, you spend resources exactly as the people that upgrade the tower to T3, not just droppping three rams for a measly 45silver… now its going to cost you

They rush your siege, suicide onto it, kill it, respawn, run back while they keep people on arrowcarts… again i fail to see your point.

Feydra.6318:

Aneu.1748:

Feydra.6318:

Its just great change it is anti zerg, if you stack up in a tight blob, a other team drops ACs in the field and quickly builds up, you are going to be sloughtered, wich is great, you have to spread out, wich makes perfect sense, lets see we cram as many as we can in one spot, as player abilities only can affect 5people, lol… its anti zerg if anything regardless of where

So if it can kill a zerg then what exactly is going to kill them or cap a keep/tower? YOU MAKE NO SENSE.

As a attacker you siege, please look up the word, you have the intiative, you are the one that needs to clear the tower/keep and breach it, it will cost you siege and time EXACTLY as it costs to upgrade and siege up a tower and keep, do the math of time, and cost it takes to upgrade a tower to T3, and you expect it to fall in ten minutes, that dosent make sense to me

But now its not going to fall period, your point is what?

Feydra.6318:

Its just great change it is anti zerg, if you stack up in a tight blob, a other team drops ACs in the field and quickly builds up, you are going to be sloughtered, wich is great, you have to spread out, wich makes perfect sense, lets see we cram as many as we can in one spot, as player abilities only can affect 5people, lol… its anti zerg if anything regardless of where

So if it can kill a zerg then what exactly is going to kill them or cap a keep/tower? YOU MAKE NO SENSE.

Caliban.3176:

Aneu.1748:

Decked.8274:

Aneu.1748:

Decked.8274:

Aneu.1748:

adding poison to an arrowcart resulting in 33% less healing

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lotus_Poison

This is why some people shouldn’t attempt to post on forum.

Yeah dude, you’re so smart that you didn’t even understood what I was talking about.

I understand that Lotus Poison was usable on Arrowcarts previously but not many people knew it – I’ve had to drink two bottles of wine due to this arrowcart patch. I apologise if my post was overtly kitteny.

He means Lotus Poison was on trebs, don’t worry, it’s the alcohol.

This.

Witchking.4380:

1) You have 30 second before swords appear on the tower. So you actually have advantage if the tower is not scouted ahead of time.

2) You have a massive advantage if you have a scout in the tower and can man AC to prevent a zerg owning your tower.

3) We wanted a zerg smasher, we now have a zerg smasher and it seems the zerg is complaining now.

Get over it.

A zerg smasher? This is a zerg smasher/ 5 man smasher/ 10 man smasher/ 20 man smasher/ 30 man smasher and everything in between that and zerg…

Decked.8274:

Aneu.1748:

Decked.8274:

Aneu.1748:

adding poison to an arrowcart resulting in 33% less healing

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lotus_Poison

This is why some people shouldn’t attempt to post on forum.

Yeah dude, you’re so smart that you didn’t even understood what I was talking about.

I understand that Lotus Poison was usable on Arrowcarts previously but not many people knew it – I’ve had to drink two bottles of wine due to this arrowcart patch. I apologise if my post was overtly kitteny.

DevonCarver.5370:

The AoE limit is due to technical limitations.

Do you want to reply to a very prominent problem? ie: Arrowcarts.

Also, how does siege have a limit of 50 people when there are “technical limitations” that stop players from having an aoe limit of 50? I call kitten

Decked.8274:

Aneu.1748:

adding poison to an arrowcart resulting in 33% less healing

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lotus_Poison

Ya, it was fixed this patch.

Dalure.4691:

Guys chill the f… down its the pref of peoples own style….some like openfields and wanna cap stuff as extra and some wanna def their whole freaking life….. getting a tower with a zerg is now counterable with a smaller group…period ….. FG always like to fight in the openfields and cap stuff….but lately at the late hours 10FG def against 50BB is crazy…so yes i like this in the eyes of the defenders……as a attacker well work around it….and yes Aneu is a freaking genius incombat so even he will get around.

PS: Miss the crazy VoTF at my side

/Salute

We are going to play Neverwinter!

DevonCarver.5370:

I love bacon too. And, we are hustling to make this a reality. Just remember to listen to George Michael. “You’ve gotta have faith.”

You may want to reply regarding Arrowcarts.

shortcake.8659:

Awww, is your poor zerg actually stopped by siege now?

No my 30 man guild is…