Guild Wars 2

The limit actually favours zergs…

Terrorsquad.2349:

Seriously FR?? U need 2 big guildgroups + pugs to kill DiVa?
Instead u fight with one guild vs us, no, one guild GROU and others push on us and AFK attacks us too.. Lame! Very lame, no sportmenship right here!
We were only with max 30 in WvW and u need +50-60..
No dignity at all, very disappointed in FR..
note: Other WvW guilds with some dignity let the guilds fight eachtoher and not CONSTANTLY interrupt it! Says enough about you since we downed half of your 50-60 men..

Grow some kiddos..
EDIT: Every kittening AFK or GROU or BL guy I encounter when I roam, will get some heavy teabag on them and emote spamming so you feel comfortable to your level.

Considering you did this to us (With 30+) when we had 31 people and YAK had engaged us (With 30+) I find this highly ignorant and hypocritical.

Try showing some dignity yourself before you start preaching.

I’m guessing he’s one of the non-minority folk…

We are now looking for additional Elementalists and Necromancers. If you think you have what it takes then apply at www.votf-online.net

Need I remind anyone of the banner res on a keep lord? I am sure that will ruffle a couple of feathers… and its such an easy fix!

Vol.5241:

Aneu.1748:

Vol.5241:

Aneu.1748:

Vol.5241:

Aneu.1748:

UrMom.4205:

I got nothing against GvG, but at the same time if they put in some sort of spvp style gvg arena wouldn’t that take a lot of players out of WvW? That would make WvW worse for a lot of players.

Lets not try to derail this thread. This has very little, if anything at all, to do with GvG.

Of course it has to do with this thread, how can not miss it?

Introduce GvG and the WvW guilds that are into it will probably spend less time fielding the battle and heading over to GvG.

Assuming Anet makes GvG scores separate from WvW then it’s going to hurt your PPT and ranking.

The reason GvG shouldnt be involved in this thread is specifically because of posts like yours. If you understood how GvG worked you would understand that guilds arent exclusively GvG guilds but WvW guilds who do a bit of GvG on the side. No guild will be 100% into GvG as such WvW would not actually see a drop in activity from the guilds that participate in it since 99% of their time is spent playing WvW and not GvGing.

Also I don’t think I know anyone who actually cares about PPT or ranks anymore…

I’m aware of GvG but I do not participate in it (because I don’t like restricting myself to the rules of WvW-only guilds). I’m well aware that many WvW guilds participate in GvG. We actually had the other day one guild on SoR that was participating in GvG asked the other players on the map to protect Bay where we were getting sieged on inner.

That’s a prime example of WvW guilds putting GvG first. It will get worse if they introduce a GvG arena/map separate from WvW with no influence on scores.

So a guild that puts huge amounts of effort into WvW asks for other people to defend a keep that they most likely took while they spend an hour enjoying their time in WvW and you think this is somehow wrong of them. Why is it that they should give up that single hour of fun for themselves in order to support you when you won’t support them in that single hour. This argument is absurd and again one of the reasons GvG shouldn’t be discussed in a topic such as this.

It’s nice of them as a guild to have contributed to WvW. But one guild on one map doesn’t make a difference. You need pugs to do work as well, and scouts. Not to mention all those not in the guild that help with supply/reps. There is a reason SoR TS is open and many guild channels are open for pugs to join in.

WvW is called WvW because it’s about the server, not the individual guild. The server helped as a whole to get to where it is, so I expect the server as a whole to help defend it’s positions.

Well if its about the server why is it ok for you to go out of World vs World and PVE, why is that ok for you to do? You should be in World vs World representing your server!

Absolute nonsense. World vs World is about my guild. I am the guild leader of VoTF and we go to World vs World for ourselves. We like the community that we are in but that comes secondary. A single guild can also quite easily carry a single borderland on their own, we do it ourselves often.

This is not a personal attack but you need to understand what you are doing here. You are expecting others to do what you yourself will not do. You are expecting them to give up what they find fun in order to generate fun for you, when it is only a single hour in a week long event you complain about it. This is called hypocrisy. You talk about being a community but your actions aren’t one of someone who wishes a community to remain strong and united.

But once again this thread descends into the GvG v WvW discussion when both are part and the same of what this game is. Back on to the topic of getting the WvW points addressed if you please?

Vol.5241:

Aneu.1748:

Vol.5241:

Aneu.1748:

UrMom.4205:

I got nothing against GvG, but at the same time if they put in some sort of spvp style gvg arena wouldn’t that take a lot of players out of WvW? That would make WvW worse for a lot of players.

Lets not try to derail this thread. This has very little, if anything at all, to do with GvG.

Of course it has to do with this thread, how can not miss it?

Introduce GvG and the WvW guilds that are into it will probably spend less time fielding the battle and heading over to GvG.

Assuming Anet makes GvG scores separate from WvW then it’s going to hurt your PPT and ranking.

The reason GvG shouldnt be involved in this thread is specifically because of posts like yours. If you understood how GvG worked you would understand that guilds arent exclusively GvG guilds but WvW guilds who do a bit of GvG on the side. No guild will be 100% into GvG as such WvW would not actually see a drop in activity from the guilds that participate in it since 99% of their time is spent playing WvW and not GvGing.

Also I don’t think I know anyone who actually cares about PPT or ranks anymore…

I’m aware of GvG but I do not participate in it (because I don’t like restricting myself to the rules of WvW-only guilds). I’m well aware that many WvW guilds participate in GvG. We actually had the other day one guild on SoR that was participating in GvG asked the other players on the map to protect Bay where we were getting sieged on inner.

That’s a prime example of WvW guilds putting GvG first. It will get worse if they introduce a GvG arena/map separate from WvW with no influence on scores.

So a guild that puts huge amounts of effort into WvW asks for other people to defend a keep that they most likely took while they spend an hour enjoying their time in WvW and you think this is somehow wrong of them. Why is it that they should give up that single hour of fun for themselves in order to support you when you won’t support them in that single hour. This argument is absurd and again one of the reasons GvG shouldn’t be discussed in a topic such as this.

Vol.5241:

Ragnar.4257:

Vol.5241:

You are asking for an entirely different game mode, probably an entire different map for you folks. And then you’d have to design an entire different interface, probably with leaderboards and such. You know how much of an undertaking that is?

Given the rate that PvE content gets produced, I would say that infact it would only take about 2 months for them to set GvG up, if they really wanted it to happen.

But they don’t. They want WvW to be a casual zerg-fest, and all the hardcore and semi-hardcore players to go prop up sPvP.

Why allocate a lot of resources to the smaller playerbase? It’s not efficient. GW2 playerbase is largely PvE and that’s how they release content for it. I bet they even get most of their money from the PvE crowd.

I won’t disagree with the comment since we dont know. What I will say is that the living story is finite content, it isnt reused and it takes quite a large amount of time to create content that is generally eaten up by the masses in a couple of days and then ignored. If you feel this is a great prioritisation of work then we can obviously stop this discussion here. Putting even 1/3 of the amount of development into WvW that has been done to the living story would create a thriving WvW community (that is growing even though we are left at the way side). Even if they simply dedicated another team towards WvW updates and content for at least a couple of months this would be a start and an olive branch to show us, the community, that we aren’t the red headed stepchild that we believe we are.

Vol.5241:

I agree that the WvW team should design stuff for WvW, not GvG. Even if it comes to the detriment to GvG. Again, it’s not their job to focus on that.

The problem stems from them designing things that comes to the detriment of World vs World. Ignore GvG, those who wish to do it will continue to do it no matter a buff or not but the problem remains that the WvW team are showing too much ignorance and a complete lack of respect towards the community by implementing something that was taken out because it created a snowball effect for the strongest servers.

The Orb buff and Outmanned buffs are backwards. We were advised that WXP% buff on the Orb would be inconsequential and wouldn’t affect the “fight” as Devon said it – The problem is that buff shouldn’t affect the “fight” because it allows strong servers to become stronger and what is even more absurd is that the outmanned buff is one that doesn’t directly affect the “fight” when it should!

Vol.5241:

Aneu.1748:

UrMom.4205:

I got nothing against GvG, but at the same time if they put in some sort of spvp style gvg arena wouldn’t that take a lot of players out of WvW? That would make WvW worse for a lot of players.

Lets not try to derail this thread. This has very little, if anything at all, to do with GvG.

Of course it has to do with this thread, how can not miss it?

Introduce GvG and the WvW guilds that are into it will probably spend less time fielding the battle and heading over to GvG.

Assuming Anet makes GvG scores separate from WvW then it’s going to hurt your PPT and ranking.

The reason GvG shouldnt be involved in this thread is specifically because of posts like yours. If you understood how GvG worked you would understand that guilds arent exclusively GvG guilds but WvW guilds who do a bit of GvG on the side. No guild will be 100% into GvG as such WvW would not actually see a drop in activity from the guilds that participate in it since 99% of their time is spent playing WvW and not GvGing.

Also I don’t think I know anyone who actually cares about PPT or ranks anymore…

Neandramathal.9536:

Not everyone plays the same. My guild and I enjoy what we do and we do it with just as much ‘passion’ as the next person, it simply is a different way of playing to what you do, that doesn’t make it inferior or deserving of being treated different. We used to go into WvW every minute we were online, not just every night, and we ALWAYS put our full effort into it. We had plenty of ‘respect and renown’ on the servers we played on/against. Difference was that because we are a small guild it was smaller servers, so what? Only reason we don’t go into WvW as much anymore is because these smaller servers suddenly weren’t so small after a lot of server hopping. We played with plenty of passion and had lots of fun, there was no need to make it “more fun”, if anything the players themselves made it LESS fun.

Example, last night we tried to have some small scale fights (2v2-5v5) with other guilds we know on the lower tier servers, only to find every single zone had GvG’s in it and so there was a) queues, and b) no room at the windmill. So we did it round the corner with very little room to move, only to find once the GvGer’s had finished they came and killed us… we respected their GvG, why don’t they respect ours? Their response “We are just having fun”.

Regardless of anything else, we are players exactly the same as the next person. No one should be treated any differently.

You can by all means fool yourself into believing that you put the same amount of effort into the game as some of the top guilds. That is down to you, but that is not the way the world works.

This is not to say you don’t put effort in, just by posting on these forums you put more effort into the game than most of its players but being a realist its hard for anyone to say they put the same amount of effort into the game as some of the top WvW guilds, again this is not a time issue, this is about effort. (And even in your signature it states you are “Semi-active” so why should you expect to be treated the same?)

UrMom.4205:

I got nothing against GvG, but at the same time if they put in some sort of spvp style gvg arena wouldn’t that take a lot of players out of WvW? That would make WvW worse for a lot of players.

Lets not try to derail this thread. This has very little, if anything at all, to do with GvG.

Neandramathal.9536:

Ross Biddle.2367:

I don’t give a kitten about Red Guard, nor do I see why their opinions matter any more than even the least of any servers militia men, or a dev actually working on the game.

So they made a youtube marking their take of WvW progression. So what.

This.

Since when was ‘Sacrx’ speaking for everyone? Why would they give a response to one guy and not the next? Get over the ego.

Because he and his guild mates have achieved what you and many others have not and that includes international renown and respect from a vast majority of those who put huge swathes of effort and passion in to WvW.

While you may flit in and out of World vs World on a whim there are guilds that dedicated almost every evening they have to entering World vs World and putting their all into it. Guilds that dedicate their time and effort into creating structures that make it more fun and efficient. Guilds that bring the passion into the game that is missing and guilds that create the competition when there is none. The effort required for any of this is gargantuan and to say that you, or another “individual” who does not put this effort in should be treated equally to those of us who actually do put that effort in is simply a joke.

Laurelinde.4395:

Aneu.1748:

Laurelinde.4395:

I think Anet probably have a policy of not ‘responding’ directly to call-outs of this kind because it could set a bad precedent. While Sacrx may know what he is talking about, I don’t think it would be the best business model to tacitly confirm that ‘sure, just make a video complaining about stuff and we will cater to your wants/needs.’ Just how ‘influential’ or ‘important’ would a poster need to be to merit Anet’s direct attention, to earn a dialogue? Like it or not, none of us is on their dev team no matter how good, bad, knowledgeable or crackpot of players we may be.

This exact line of thought it was causes a lot of the toxicity within the MMO industry. When community managers and developers decide to maintain their ivory tower approach those who have the same greviences as the most vocal of the community also tend to feel left out.

As you can see on these very forums this is not an isolated incident, there is a general feeling of uneasiness in the World vs World community at the moment and this will degrade over time to a form of loathing, it has happened in many other games.

The only way to counter this is with a forthright discussion with developers regarding the issues that are on the table at the moment – The other problem here is that companies generally tend to only invite nodding dogs to these kinds of discussions as they dont want to take too much stick or flack or sometimes don’t feel the need to broach the real subject behind a lot of the problems…

I should clarify, I am not suggesting that Anet shouldn’t address the issue at all. Obviously, WvW issues come up on the forums regularly and it is often the same ones which are repeated by a lot of people (eg support for GvG). I was more responding to the premise of the thread title in that I think their responses should be aimed at the community as a whole (or significant sections thereof) rather than individual players. So I would not expect a response directly referencing Sacrx’s video, but I would hope there would be discussion of some of the issues raised, in a more general sense. (Not that I am holding my breath, mind!)

In every MMO there are “pillars” of the community that should be respected. Even if they may be egotistical crazies, their achievements give them clout and thus their points should be taken far more seriously than that of an “unknown” source so to speak.

Whether anyone wishes to agree with this or not is another topic all together but generally this is how an approach should be made towards these kinds of issues. Sacrx has the ear of a lot of people, he has the respect of a lot of people and even though quite a lot of people dislike him as a person that does not mean they respect him any less nor does it mean his points are any less valid. To not respond to his points is not just an insult to him it is an insult to anyone who puts the amount of effort into the game that he has and spreads the message of “We don’t particularly care about your input or your passion”. That is the wrong message to send.

Laurelinde.4395:

I think Anet probably have a policy of not ‘responding’ directly to call-outs of this kind because it could set a bad precedent. While Sacrx may know what he is talking about, I don’t think it would be the best business model to tacitly confirm that ‘sure, just make a video complaining about stuff and we will cater to your wants/needs.’ Just how ‘influential’ or ‘important’ would a poster need to be to merit Anet’s direct attention, to earn a dialogue? Like it or not, none of us is on their dev team no matter how good, bad, knowledgeable or crackpot of players we may be.

This exact line of thought it was causes a lot of the toxicity within the MMO industry. When community managers and developers decide to maintain their ivory tower approach those who have the same greviences as the most vocal of the community also tend to feel left out.

As you can see on these very forums this is not an isolated incident, there is a general feeling of uneasiness in the World vs World community at the moment and this will degrade over time to a form of loathing, it has happened in many other games.

The only way to counter this is with a forthright discussion with developers regarding the issues that are on the table at the moment – The other problem here is that companies generally tend to only invite nodding dogs to these kinds of discussions as they dont want to take too much stick or flack or sometimes don’t feel the need to broach the real subject behind a lot of the problems…

lordkrall.7241:

Deli.1302:

Oh I think most people will agree that it should be available to the public.

The contracts signed does not however. And if you actually sign a contract you sure as kitten should respect that. If not you shouldn’t sign it in the first place.

There is a reason the information is not available to the public.

Having sympathy with the folk at Arenanet everyone needs to understand that this is not something aimed at the entirety of the company but something aimed at the decisions made by a select few people who are or were attempting to guide the game and community in a certain direction. That has now failed. GuildWars 2 will not become an eSport I think we can all agree on that.

The PvE in this game is somewhat lacklustre and while they are attempting to correct this they are letting down huge swathes of the userbase that focus elsewhere in the game.

sPvP as a whole is neglected to the extent that it has become buildwars and not a game mode based around combat. This was done because of one of those select individuals making a decision that would affect the entire development of that game type. It could have been far more successful but it is not. Arenanet have no one else to blame but themselves for this (and more specifically said individuals making said decisions).

World vs World is part of the game that is growing, it is getting more and more people into it as reported by Arenanet through various sources yet it is the most underdeveloped game mode in the game, the least supported and at times it seems to be treated with a form of contempt that is unbecoming of a great company that makes choices based around its community desires but understands that things need to be a little different from the mass desire.

There are a multitude of teams at ANet HQ and the majority of them are working on the living world, I believe they have 4 or 5 teams working on a rota’d basis with regards to their two week releases of content for the living world. While this is all great and fun this does not show any form of respect or desire to want to support a game type that is actually growing. They have a single team that isnt even fully manned supporting World vs World and even that team isnt making the best decisions regarding the game type.

So while you are indeed right that the NDA contract still stands, that doesnt mean that those who feel so strongly about a game, have put passion and effort into the game to the extent that Sacrx did then a piece of paper will become meaningless.

The MMO world changes when you are a guild leader, especially if you are one for many years and put the amount of effort in with regards to running a fully operational guild. We don’t have the monetary excuse behind us pushing us (as developers have) we only have the passion and desire to see the game we play succeed. Some may be forceful in their approach, others may be more tactical but essentially when it comes down to it if said guild leaders are not actually being listened to considering they are at the top of the game then what does a company expect? Loyalty? Respect?

That is not how the world works. The entire MMO development community can be influenced by such a small minority of the people within it that it becomes a toxic mess and sadly it happens all too often.

Sadly this is the state of the development studio culture. Essentially we aren’t seen as worth while individuals but more as children who require “telling” here and there when in actual fact it is the developer who is acting like a petulant child that wants to see the outcome of a project they know isn’t fit for purpose (Ever told a child not to put their hand in a flame? They end up being burnt and crying… that is exactly the situation here.)

Considering the complete backwards situation of the Orb buff vs the Outmanned buff I really doubt Anet will give more rewards to the losing servers, after all the outmanned buff is something “insignificant” according to Devon’s latest post regarding the Orb Buff since it doesn’t “affect the fight”….

I’m actually speechless.

There are actually guilds considering leaving the game because of this. Not because of the stats effect but the lack of understanding or engagement from the developers with regards to this issue.

The main reason players, or the majority of players who know what they are talking about, dislike this buff is because of the snowball effect its predecessor had. Previously there was an Orb that was able to be taken on all Borderlands that could be placed on an alter inside of a keep inside the borderlands that gave the owner a buff. What happened was that the strongest server generally kept the Orb’s throughout the week after night-capping all keeps and upgrading them to tier 3.

In this new form it will simply mean that the server with the biggest zerg able to press 1 in the mass lag this new area will cause will get the buff – So once again the strongest server will be even stronger. It does not help World vs World, it does not add any more levels of strategy, it simply exacerbates a problem that is already prolific.

Each point gives you a 25% damage increase on siege to structures… – No stat increase. FIXED

lordkrall.7241:

Aneu.1748:

Stop being so naive to believe it will break up zergs… It wont.

So… how do you suppose a server that only zergs will be able to take and hold 3 different points at the same time without breaking up? And on top of that also defend their towers/camps/keeps?

I’m not going to get into a theoretical debate with you on this because in our heads we can come up with some crazy ideas as to how we feel things should work when in reality you wont get it. If you put effort into researching this buff you will understand the mechanics behind it in terms of time to capture and what it takes to remove the buff from an enemy server – Its not as straight forward as you would believe.

With the buff points being in the central area of the map to get from any keep to those points requires 30s to 1min depending on class. Its very easy to get people to trickle into these points until your entire zerg shows up, wipes what is on the point trying to take it and heads back merrily on their way into the tower or keep they were just sitting on arrowcarts in.

This will not split up zergs, if anything it will make them more prolific since you will require your entire server zerg to take these points, if you go with any less you will meet another server with more numbers meaning you call for more meaning they call for more meaning you call for more, rinse and repeat…

Again, stop being naive.

lordkrall.7241:

So basically making a buff that is not a buff but rather an icon that no one will ever bother to take?

The stat-buff is a rather good reason for people to make sure to take the buff and/or make sure the enemy doesn’t. Which in turn will also break up zergs and that is a good thing.

Stop being so naive to believe it will break up zergs… It wont.

Haters incoming…

Once again another person blinkered into the thought that this post is about GvG when it quite blatantly isn’t… Well done to you good sir, put your hatred for a certain aspect of the game before the possibility of creating a worth while post and or reading the main post and understanding it. I commend you.

You obviously didn’t understand the post if you decide to reply with regards to GvG.

Guilds fighting guilds obviously require no skill then.

What a very sad excuse for a post covered in rhetoric and counterproductive arguements that simply wash over the fact that this buff is not good for World vs World, not because GvG players dont want it but because it creates a snowball effect with regards to winning servers.

Once upon a time servers used to give up due to an Orb buff that made games even more one sided than they are currently. When the game went from 24hr resets to weekly resets servers were quitting WvW after the weekend due to the ability of servers to stack buffs from the Orb and attain not only more points but also to increase their ability to bunker down inside a tower/keep and retain those points! It is not good for the World vs World game… if you cannot see that due to your dislike for the GvG scene then you really should take a long look at your post and realise you arent helping any situation.

P,S Complaining about others complaining because they want you to play the game the way they want and then you want them to play the game the way you want – its called hypocrisy…

Vena.8436:

AndrewSX.3794:

They got rid of orbs for a reason.
And no, it wasn’t just “too easy to hack”.

Ok we already had this posted in another thread, it was a lot of things but hacking was the prime culprit.

No, it wasn’t the prime culprit. Hacking was prolific in the top tier but in lower tiers it just didn’t happen (as much if at all). The reason the Orb was removed because it made the strongest servers even stronger and assisted with bunkering inside a keep, that is the reason it was removed, not to say hacking wasn’t a factor but it wasn’t the main one.

AndrewSX.3794:

Vena.8436:

I think the point is to force the zerg to split and manage the central buffs;

Issue is, with maps not getting enlarged and all 5 points being clumped so close each other in the “lake area”, i don’t think zergs will split up at all.

And, if stat based buffs are surely shiny, they’re also dangerous, overpowering and toxic for wvw in every aspect – being it roaming, gvg or whatever fight with a player.

They got rid of orbs for a reason.
And no, it wasn’t just “too easy to hack”.

Even though the buffs are clumped together you need to invest time in them to attain them. Leaving a small group of 5 people there to capture the buff may mean they get wiped out so people need to balance the chances of taking the buff against the requirement of defence of a keep or tower. If they want to do both at the same time then they will need to split.

Servers that run around in mostly guild groups will have an easier time with this as they already run around in groups of 30 but those servers that keep everyone on a single map around a single commander will need to adapt in order to take advantage, or they will simply get hit from too many sides to cope.

Vena.8436:

No one wants to sit around for 5/10 minutes capping a node.

B-but muh fair fights!

But people want to sit around for hours using siege, so why not?

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/Bloodlust-in-the-borderlands-A-truer-concept/

Check that concept out.

Getting PM’s instead of replies. The reason for the buff to stop as soon as another person steps on (without any of the owning server being on the point) instead of the “10 min” is because smaller servers will still be able to participate in nullifying the buff plus it will give roamers and 5 man gangs more to do that is worth while to their server.

Mushin Tips.1623:

all i have to say is the bigger the zerg the more bags i get. the guild im in only runs a 30 man raid and we just farm the 60+ enemy zergs all night.

Without lag farming the zerg is fun indeed, with lag then it turns into autoattack spam which is quite simply terrible. Lag makes any counter to a serverblob nigh on impossible which gives even more incentive for servers to blob up.

Tom Gore.4035:

The real problem with Zergs is that they make the game unplayable because of skill lag. That’s not the fault of zergs, of course, but ANets unwillingness to put in resources to solve that particular problem.

Pretty much this. A zerg creates lag which means smaller groups that would have been able to kill them once upon a time (without lag) is pretty much impotent when it comes to combating them… no stability and all that matters is the amount of people auto-attacking, of which the zerg has more…

Its an infrastructure problem that makes the games meta sway even more to its lowest form of which is keeping the entire maps forces from certain servers on a single commander in order to win. It simply isnt a good format.

Thrashbarg.9820:

It’s not something they can fix. Their servers are as top of the line as they can get, their game engine as modern as possible given development costs. The problem is the game is too complex for current tech. 80v80v80 results in billions of simultaneous calculations over 240 systems with varying latency. With combo fields/finishers, projectile physics, position/direction/velocity based calculations, boon/condition interaction/stacks/timers/power of sources etc. there is more going on behind the scenes than the combat in any other MMO.

Do you know the server stats? If so please share…

Siege is by far an integral part of World vs World but it should most deffinatley not be what World vs World is focused around tbh. Siege engines are tools for player use and they should not be put in as a gimmick to make up for bad playing.

Let me use last night as an example. This is how World vs World is on a lot of servers currently.

We enter the borderland – We run around in a group of 30 and engage groups double if not triple our number. We whittle them down and wipe them up, not really a big deal. After the first few engagements they decide to hold back quite a bit and then start to hot-drop arrowcarts in order to fight us, again we don’t mind that, we still win.

Rememmber that this is a group of 60+ people all following a single commander. We take a quick break and our numbers drop to around 20-25. At this point they rally every person on their map on the single commander and decide to bunker inside a keep. The other enemy server gets in the keep with another zerg and we are left absolutely out in the cold simply due to the fact that lag will kill us. We can’t engage their numbers because we cant activate stability, we cant support each-other, the only thing that works is autoattack thus their more numbers will win. #

This is the infrastructure of the game actually directly affecting WvW combat. This is not GvG – This is World vs World and we cant play it as it should be played due to a system that directly contradicts what World vs World should be!

Why then are the developers introducing a new system where key systems will make one side stronger (generally the already strongest side) and make lag worse due to these blobs being focused on a focal point of the borderlands maps (the area where the water is now) and bringin their entire server group to counter other enemies…

It is not going to work, the system can’t handle a 25v60 at the moment let alone a 3 way. If people want real World vs World then start banging on about the infrastructure not working as intended rather than trying to push out various game style aspects of WvW in general.

Altie.4571:

I did mention in my post that I agree that their incorporation of the buff may be misguided as it can potentially create an even bigger discrepancy between the have vs. the have not servers.

But this is a 2nd time around, and I’m hoping that something has been learned. I will reserve judgment until we see it in action. As we all should.

Wait and see was said about the complaints about Ilum in SWTOR… it was said about the class balance in RIFT, it was also said about 1 hit kills in TERA… we all know how they turned out and Anets previous screw ups with regards to WvW really don’t imbue a sense of reliability in what they are doing…

Plus we dont need to see it, we know what will happen…

Altie, I quite frankly couldn’t care about the orb buff affecting GvG – I care about the snowball effect it is going to be guaranteed to have of making the strongest server in a match-up stronger. This is what happened when the previous orb buff was in place and introducing this system will simply consolidate the requirement for every server that wishes to be competitive to run with everyone in a single group. As the leader of a group of players that generally run with around 30 in WvW I can tell you that it is possible to take on double if not triple the number and win but to do this there has to be no other fights going on while you are on the map and the servers have to be able to hold up otherwise lag kicks in and the smaller group gets shafted…

What is the reason we still run as a 30man group? Because we wish to get better, we wish to be competitive, we play the game for a challenge, as WvW players this is what we enjoy. I am by no means saying to people “dont zerg” but what I would like is to see Anet actually do something about this god awful lag and equal the playing field – at least in terms of infrastructure so that fights like these arent even more one sided than they need to be. Also dont introduce the buff in the form of stats, it will just do as I said above and create a snowball of the strong servers retaining the buff and being even stronger…

There is no vision for WvW, they quite obviously don’t have a future in mind or what route it should take and that is a scary prospect especially when it will have some direct competition in the very near future.

I feel a buff is required but not one that involves raw stats added to one particular server… its simply asking for strong servers to be even stronger.

ParaldaWind.4523:

I really am baffled how many people in this thread completely missed Aneu’s point.

It’s not about GvG. I’ve been trying to express this for awhile, and while I doubt anyone will really listen now, I’ll try again.

It’s about respect and acknowledgment. GvG is, on its own, not a separate gametype. GvG has always just been a way for the more organized open field guilds to ask, “I wonder who’s the best?” and simulate open field fights in a controlled environment. I cannot think of a single guild that GvGs more often than they raid in WvW, and that’s because GvGs are meant to prepare and improve a guild’s open field strategy.

Personally, I raid 5 days a week for 3 to 5 hours a day. I have over 3k hours logged, almost all of it in WvW. Most of my guild members have well over 1k hours logged in WvW. I am sure that Aneu’s guild, Sylas’s guild, Dranul’s guild, Jericho’s guild, Odinzu’s guild, Naytron’s guild, Tzenjin’s guild, etc, all have similar numbers that they could attest to. We are a significant population of very dedicated players who happen to like to focus on open field fights, and we feel ignored, and honestly, disrespected.

None of the changes that have been implemented since Devon Carver has arrived, save for culling, have helped our playstyles or communities. Every single time we try to point this out, we’re either ignored, brushed under the rug, moved to a different subforum, had our posts deleted, had our thread titles editorialized by the mods, or been responded to in condescending and stubborn ways.

We just want good fights. This game has some of the best group combat that I’ve ever played, and the fights that I do have are incredible, but I really fear that ignoring this segment of the population is going to lessen a lot of the fun of the fights that we would normally have. Sure, orbs affect GvGs, and that sucks, but did you ever think to wonder WHY orbs might suck? GvG is a simulation of open field combat. Anything that negatively affects GvG combat or skilled fighting (ie, non-siege fights) also will affect the open field mechanic of the game. Open field, which, in my opinion, is one of the few true end-games in GW2.

So, yes, GvG being ruined sucks for guilds like mine, however, it’s not the problem. The problem is the clear lack of understanding that Anet displays of their own game. The problem is the lack of communication to arguably the most active segment of the community. The problem is that we really — REALLY — like this game, but the parts of it we like are being slowly taken away from us for no apparent reason.

That bothers me.

Thank you, I thought I made it quite apparent what the OP was about but it seems some people still feel the need to draw lines in the sand and start throwing rocks. Your reply is very much appreciated.

Magnetron.5823:

Aneu.1748:

Magnetron.5823:

Alright first of all, I do understand that there are players like you who like to fight without buffs and without siege, and do not have the skill level required for Spvp.

That’s why you guys come to WvW and are hiding in desolate spots to have your own ‘private’ fights.

But please understand the words that I will put here now, and share them with the rest of your community.

This is WvW, and WvW should be about WvW only. The whole WvW game mode was intended for using sieges in defence and attack, it is an unique game mode for a MMO.

Please give the respect to the WvW team and let them work with only WvW because that is their passion.

There is no GvG mode in GW2. Maybe someday in the future, but not now. So please can you guys stop being so much trolls in every Livestream, Forum, Newspaper, Twitter or what ever and stop spamming GVG GVG GVG.

I am sick of it, and so are a lot of other players.

What is World vs World to you exactly? Siege only? Players fighting other players? Guild groups running around engaging other guild groups? PPT? I am rather interested.

I would much prefer this thread not turn into a WvW v GvG v sPvP v 5man v Roamer v individual.

In response to your “sPVP players” remark, the winners of the most recent 5v5 Tournament at PAX are actually members of my guild

I see world vs world as a big playground for all different PVP style players, that have all these abilities and siege at hand and can hide and defend structures.

You can play GvG there if you want, but what I have been reading over the forums that players are asking to remove buffs because they want to play a different style in WvW where WvW is not been designed for. I think asking for that is crossing the line, because they already said that GvG mode wont be here anytime soon.

And yes, I believe Spvp is the only competitive place for GW2 now. WvW has nothing to do with competition, its just a big playground.. and it is made for being a big playground, I believe the devs know that and want that.

The reason people have been asking for the buff to be removed is because it creates a snowball effect for winners. A strong server becomes even stronger with a tripple buff on each of the borderlands giving them +150 to each stat and I agree with people who believe the buff to be out of place. WvW is not meant to be “balanced” by any means but unbalancing it intentionally is just crazy, wouldnt you agree?

Also as I said, sPVP isnt competitive at all, not with the limited amount of builds that are viable in the game which most serious sPVPers will attest to.

Lurch.9517:

Aneu.1748:

Lurch.9517:

That seems an awfully long winded way of saying ‘let me GvG in peace please and don’t make any changes to the game that will effect me doing so’

Actually its a long winded way of saying “Support each aspect of World vs World individually as opposed to dividing your community down the middle in an attempt to save your pride and/or ego”.

I hear what you are saying, Anet obviously do not. They are supporting the WvW part of their game, they do not view it as a sandbox and as far as they are concerned fair competitive PVP will take place in HOM and GvG will happen as and when they officially introduce it to the game should they choose to. In the mean time players are welcome to try and pursue such initiatives as GvG Fightclub Duelling etc but have to adjust themselves as WvW rules change. As the saying goes ’The lady is not for turning (except when it comes to vertical progression).

Well competitive pvp is not happening in sPVP at the moment as most sPVPers can attest to, its simply a bunch of cookie cutter builds being thrown against one another and not running one of these specific builds simply means you arent going to be effective.

World vs World is not a game format that can be “defined” by a set amount of actions be it siege, roaming or anything in between because its all encompassing since it incorporates all those game styles, it is actually doing that right now which means that by attempting to push out a single aspect of it people are actually trying to define what WvW is (simply doing what they say GvGers are doing at the moment also) which is complete hypocrisy! Does that make more sense?

ie: You shouldnt be able to do WvW the way you want to! You should do WvW the way I want to! No your opinion doesnt matter because its WvW! But wait what you are doing is in WvW which means its part of WvW but no! It shouldn’t be!

Get it?

Magnetron.5823:

Alright first of all, I do understand that there are players like you who like to fight without buffs and without siege, and do not have the skill level required for Spvp.

That’s why you guys come to WvW and are hiding in desolate spots to have your own ‘private’ fights.

But please understand the words that I will put here now, and share them with the rest of your community.

This is WvW, and WvW should be about WvW only. The whole WvW game mode was intended for using sieges in defence and attack, it is an unique game mode for a MMO.

Please give the respect to the WvW team and let them work with only WvW because that is their passion.

There is no GvG mode in GW2. Maybe someday in the future, but not now. So please can you guys stop being so much trolls in every Livestream, Forum, Newspaper, Twitter or what ever and stop spamming GVG GVG GVG.

I am sick of it, and so are a lot of other players.

What is World vs World to you exactly? Siege only? Players fighting other players? Guild groups running around engaging other guild groups? PPT? I am rather interested.

I would much prefer this thread not turn into a WvW v GvG v sPvP v 5man v Roamer v individual.

In response to your “sPVP players” remark, the winners of the most recent 5v5 Tournament at PAX are actually members of my guild

Lurch.9517:

That seems an awfully long winded way of saying ‘let me GvG in peace please and don’t make any changes to the game that will effect me doing so’

Actually its a long winded way of saying “Support each aspect of World vs World individually as opposed to dividing your community down the middle in an attempt to save your pride and/or ego”.

Vena.8436:

AndrewSX.3794:

Bloodlust: gain utility buffs depending on how many points you hold, magnitude of buffs (10/20/30%) depends on the points held on different BL’s.

No one would care about the buff, completely defeating the point of it.

Who, in WvW of any of the guilds who give a crap about PvP, would care about this buff in the way you’ve constructed it? Obviously no one (which is why you constructed it as you did).
What zerg, in WvW, will care about it if all it gives are irrelevant boosts to irrelevant things like Magic Find or Experience or Karma? Obviously no one, and so the zerg will just keep on zerging. They won’t even care about the stomp bonus because ZvZ rarely resolves to any sort of stomping.

The whole point of this buff, unlike the old orbs, is to force you to spread and manage more of a map, and in ways that cannot simply be “zerged” down in a clockwise or counterclockwise circle because there are no walls and the nodes decap on their own. If the orb buff amounted to nothing, no one would give a kitten about it.

This is an update for small scale (the ones who actually stomp), to give them a standing purpose aside from running around zerg island and having little bouts of irrelevance. If you think some enemy zerg is going to run circles around a map chasing down a small scale group at some nodes, then, if they really have that luxury, the fight was already so lopsided that no amount of arbitrary stat bonuses were going to help.

DAoC managed just fine with an even more powerful buff, and they had their 8v8 GvGs for ages.

If you believe having points at the centre of the map, rather close to one another, in the middle of all 3 keeps will mean that the zerg will split up then I am afraid you are in for a rude awakening.

DevonCarver.5370:

I have said it before and it clearly bears repeating, our focus is on making improvements to WvW as a game type. When we implement changes it is with that goal in mind. We are aware of the GvG scene and we think it is really impressive, but the effects of any of our changes on GvG as it currently exists are not a priority for us. As such, when changes do come in, like the new map, some of them will be a positive for the GvG crowd and some will not. However, none of the changes we make are intended to stamp out GvG nor are they intended to make GvG more popular. When/if we focus our attention on GvG we will do our utmost to make it a game type that fits the needs of as many people as possible. That time is not now.

We are focused on WvW right now and improving it. Please try not to conflate our decisions in regards to WvW as some sort of judgement or endorsement of GvG in any form.

So we both know how stubborn you are. We know it from this forum, we know it from that “other” place that you blatantly disregard any feedback given and you once again come out of the ignorance cave you quite blatantly live in to shock us once again.

Let me make it quite clear for you, since my last post was so easily missed. Your changes are NOT making WvW more entertaining, nor is it making it more fun. All the changes that have been done in WvW (minus culling) have done nothing but turn it into a casual mess where people run around in a single zerg ball. Now the groups that dont do this are groups that pride themselves on competetive fighting and showing how strong that can be when not having to resort to the whole zerg meta – You are basically giving the two fingers to these people, the people who are attempting to be good at your WvW game. You are actually giving the zerg meta more of an ability to influence and essentially turning WvW into the largest blob wins…

Hopefully you can understand this and remove the whole WvW vs GvG thing since most GvG guilds are WvWers and they play the WvW game far more than most…