Guild Wars 2

i dont like the idea of hot-join at all. It works fine in FPS games but here i would like to see more than
Free tournaments = tournaments for single and duo players. No full premades allowed
Paid tournaments = premade tournaments only full groups

that could actually promote team play a bit more.
But i also understeand that some people just can´t go for full tournament so hot-join is great for them for few minutes.. of game..

Sounds GREAT !!

Im going to check my teammates and eventually i will bring my team to join this.

Futermore, i would prefer 3v3 tournaments. I tried to organize 3v3 teams but since our community is small, we have only 6 teams interested in 3v3.

Why 3v3? its gave you more options, elites usage is not as critical (in 2v2 elite can pretty much decide who win).

Also What about ress signets? i can imagine team of classes like engi + necro or engi + guard who will take ressurection utility will have advantage and therefore these classes will be promoted over those who doesnt have that..

OneArmedBandit.7936:

@Aragiel: As a meditation bunker guardian (30/20/20), I have no problems dealing with blossom thieves. You just need to position yourself correctly (keeping a close eye on caltrops’ casting animation to dodge outside its radius, have a decent idea on its C&D and the blossom thief’s initiative etc.) and manage your condi removals and light field combos accordingly. If blossom thieves are a perfect counter to your build, notify your team before he assaults the point etc. From a team fight perspective, you only need one person to remain on point, so the counter-plays are endless.

as i said in previous post, when our team is facing caltrops thief – we usually send ele to deal with him.. which is quite fine.

But the fact that i know what class to send doesnt mean its fine. I have no issues with caltrops thieves at all, but i dont agree with the spec too.. its to much evasion and hard to hit build.

sounds good.. thanks

OneArmedBandit.7936:

Caltrops don’t cover the entire node (with the likely exception of Clocktower & Keep). On the majority of nodes, you can safely fight on the periphery without getting the node (de)capped.

but that is leaving you only a small place, with no chance of kitting. so while you are avoiding the main source of his damage, he will probalby still deathblossom over you + dodgeroll caltrops on you.. leaving you still same choice

will i leave and let him the point?
will i fight him under his rulez? because i will lost the point for sure or get it neutralized
will i let him kill me?

Just wondering as this one is priority nr. 1 on my list.

Did they fixed it in patch? because i haven´t seen that in patch notes.

too fast to watch. Next time dont speed it up that much please.

i believe it can happend when there is patching going on.

you basically have two tournaments running – one in new instance under new patch, one still running at old version.
since both version use same database structure, they do get different meassuress and there we go.. error.. or empty instance or you can´t join.. whatever.

I think thats the main reason if issues like this.

Well, i also remember quite a few games against those thiefs. They are really pain in … if you dont adapt. So what we do lately in our team when facing caltrops. We just switch roles.
Caltrops offten goes for our point with the goal of neutralize. So instead of portal mesmer guarding the point we switch roles and keep our elementalist holding point and mesmer is more roaming instead. That way, when caltrops is attacking our ele, he offten get
a) killed by our ele
b) they have neverending fight, but he will never ever get the point neutralized. Ele simply has enough cleansing
c) he can hold the point long enough till we broke their own defense and therefore we force the thief focus somewhere else.

its also working fine. But if you dont have ele, you have to find other class in your team that can survive, and never get the point to be neutralized.

Ok, lets say whats should be goal of caltrops thief? is it to kill you? not really to be honest. Not in tournament PvP.
I played with one of my friends in PAID tournaments. He said he will play caltrops builds.. i was like.. eh.. caltrops? go backstab so you can roam like a boss. And he said.. it will be fine.. just check it.

So we played paid tournaments. wha he did was pretty much simple. He always run enemy point and normally he played against mesmer there. At this it was easy for him to neutralize the point. So reaction of opposite team was to send their roamer back. In this he was fighting 2v1 on enemy point which he get neutralized so no points for enemy team. Leaving us to fight 4vs3 on other points. Sometimes he was able to keep 2 people on him for a serious time. They were unable to kill him as he wasnt specced to kill.. but to neutralize the point. For us we had easier job to maintain mid point + our close point. and that was pretty much easy. Yes, we get roflstomped in third round normally.. but most of the time the caltorps thief made his job.. he bound on him 2 players + he get enemy point neutralized.

Counter? of course backstab will be best counter. But if you send your bacstab back you lost allready. Few points you didnt get becasue your point was neutralized, and another few points by fighing him. as tradeoff you get 5 points when you actually kill him.

I have to say.. this build isn´t dangerous as annoying due to evasive attacks. He can literally be in evasive state 90% of his time if played well.

If you find a good caltrops thief chances are you never kill him (he decide when to leave) or you lose point or get it neutralized.

Problem i see is if he get your point neutralized.. then he is doing good job allready.. he dont need to cap it. Just keep it neutral while bonding on him you + probably one more guy? i have seen scenarios like that. Altought i believe that with 2 guys you should be able to kill him easily within seconds (just cc + burst).

But as i said.. the main problem is if you 1v1 with caltrops and he neutralize your point – you are loosing. Maybe not this fight but the game.

maybe i did understeand it wrong.. but i think it was said that we can expect only balance changes in December and matchmaking as next thing in new year

Nord.5360:

Hey guys,

We’ll probably be looking at having these discussions at least once a month, with rotating players. The NA side of things definitely needs some representation. We had some technical difficulties with the inaugural episode, but everyone was a champ and we got through it. We’ll step it up on round two.

Thanks for watching!

It was a good work anyway. Technical problems could happend.. we know that. And i liked the discussion.
But you right – for next also NA side should be invited. They do probably have different opinion – as they have a bit different situation (for example paid tournaments do have much higher queue time then in europe.. )

Ok, we are getting closer.
So Thief? How is that thief is getting so many bleeds on you? There is only one build i know so far who is able to do it and thats Caltrops build.

Is that the case? Because normally, thief is a class that can escape from fights.. pretty much like noone else. Its his role. he is this annoying guy who is jumping everywhere bursting and then he has to escape otherwise he is dead.

But your case seems more likely as Caltrops build, where the thief is applying lot of bleeds on you. In that case, its a bit different deal, but at the end its also very easy to handle this build. just stay out of range of caltrops and you will be fine.

btw.. im not high lvl ranger player, i play ranger proffesion lately (lvl 63 in WvW), but so far no issues with thiefes. Ranger is one of best 1v1 proffesions..

nope, you are just showing how you can´t deal with conditions. While the first post was about dodging.. then bleeds, and later on we have some summary of cleansing skills.

Whats the point man? can you be clear and tell us whats your real issue? If you do so.. we might try to help you.

ah.. i see.. so this is the
“Im blaming everything topic”

ok.. enjoy..

before we go for next discussion..

how long do you play the game in sPvP?
And what exactly we blame here?

the fact that you were hit by bleeds true dodge roll?
or you press your dodge button and nothing happened?

common guys.. duels are possible ! i know it would be much nicer if you can just /duel to challenge someone. But thats not really needed right now.

The game desperatelly need to fix current issues with existing system and then add new systems.
Do you want duels? Organize it ! it is possible in current hot-joins maps. I have allready organized 2 events and the third one is right now ongoing with 16 players dueling each other.

For a competetive scene, we trully need systems where new players can live and improve themselfs.. as team not as individuals.

Thank you Xeph, and also others who were asking some good questions to Jonathan. Im glad that they are working on matchmaking right now. I really feel thats whats the game need right now.

Shame it will be next year , but even to know that is keeping my teammates still playing.. Well, I see a lot of WvW action comming till next big patch in our guild.. just to see also other aspect of PvP.

i dont see any issues with protection / toughness right now.

Thank you Xeph for this opportunity !

my question – ane actually question from whole Czech / Slovak sPvP community.

What short term actions will Arenanet take in order to improve current tournaments? I mean what short terms actions will we see in order to fix issue where solo players are matched against organized premades, also where low level premades are matched against high level ones.
Also what actions can we expect in PAID tournaments? i mean the queue are pretty much long but still better and at this point i believe NA players are in much worst situation.

last question
Is there something for us comming in next windersday patch? 14.12.2012?

where do you see players call themselfs “pro”?

thre are some players and teams that are good, but noone of them is “pro”. Not yet and till GW2 will become e-sport game, im pretty sure we still haven´t seen the real dragons..

@Chriswck

Thanks, it has its own issues too for sure, but at least people can start to realize that this is team play and the goal of playing is to WIN and not to get GLORY. Glory should be just an addition.

Yagamy.1569:

yeah better stay on topic

i know lets just hope they’ll give some good answers because we really need those atm :p

We desperately need them atm. Im really looking fowarad to hear whats also other players opinion.

Especiatelly.. im interested on what anet is working on right now? is it custom arena? is it matchmaking? is it new map? or new modes? can we expect something on the 14th patch? or it will be only PVE wintersday event?

Hi there,
It happened to me quite offten that when i post – my post is actually multiplied many times inside of my post (hope it does make sense).

I figured out that the reason is sometimes empty row in betwen senteces. When i edit the post and remove all the empty rows in betwen, its OK again.

Im using latest version of CHROME

Yagamy.1569:

they also buffed our downed state and now we’re like the best class in downed state because u can counter everything with mist , and they buffed ether renewal wich is good now against cond so really nothing to cry about ele getting nerf and stuff like that lol

Yea.. downed state is quite funny now.. from zero to hero
nevermind.. back to topic..
Yagamy, please we have big hopes for today´s event with Jonathan.. if you can try to get as many important answers as you can.. (well.. your teammate actually)

im not an expert on ele class.. but considering Elementalist has its place in almost every team composition and also taking in account that i do see regullary D/D builds, S/D builds and also staff builds.. i would say that ele is one of the most balanced classess right now. Hell even more versatile class considering it has nice dmg output + cleansing + healing + enough CC + best combo fields + most AOE in game.

But i might be wrong of course.

It seems GW1 still is more competitive than GW2 actually

http://www.teamquitter.com/viewtopic.php?f=128&t=31207

EDIT: no idea why it doesnt work properly.. here is another link http://www.teamquitter.com/viewforum.php?f=128 – its the sticky topic

interesting…

i have seen many teams using warrior over Theif. Not only lately.. and to be honest, i have seen warriors that literaly destroyed everything what they touched..

dont forget its a team composition and general strategy whats making warriors usefull, not all classes composition can use same strategy. sometimes you need to change it based on your setup.

Xiomaro.2563:

As a would-be competitive player the lack of Elo rating is one of the main reasons I’m playing less and less. The population is making me not want to sign on at all. For the first time ever I signed on today to see no one on my friends list online at 8pm (peak time). I have around 70-80 people on my friends list and not a single one was online.

I don’t care about hot join but I know a lot of people do; and a good general player base is key to having a good competitive scene. So for that reason I’d like to see hot join sorted out. If the Thief style of play wasn’t so well rewarded in hot join then not as many people would play it. The class itself is actually pretty balanced. The issue is: if I do play hot join I will play as Thief as the only reason I’ll play hot join is to farm glory. Thief is one of the easiest classes to do this with. If I could sit on a point with a Guardian and get just as many points, then I’d do that sometimes. In a similar way to how medics in Planetside 2 can get just as much experience as someone who’s killing enemies; different play styles need to be better rewarded in hot join.

I’m not trying to be a fearmongerer but this is getting pretty serious. I really can’t get over there being no one online at peak time in the evening.

fully agree with you

btw.. with hot-join and in general roamers are better rewarded than defenders.
At this point i would just gave same ammount of glory to every member of team. For example – you can have “team glory pool” and by doing thigs like defense / killing etc.. you add points to this pool. At the end of the game you take 5 players.. and divide the glory pool in between them.
That would actually promote TEAM play instead of zerging. But i see there are also issues for hot-joins like what if you join at the end of the game? should you get full reward etc? but thats still managable. The problem is.. people get glory for playing bad instead of focusing on what is objective.

felivear.1536:

Aragiel.6132:

JonathanSharp.7094:

We’re here, we’re listening. I’m sure a lot of this will come up in tomorrow’s talk. We’ll have to keep it quick though, as I think the talk is slated for an hour.

I hope you will answer some good questions there. I know lot of players is waiting for this as last chance for PvP in near future.

As of yesterday I have stopped playing until I see the results of this QA. If we get the same old fluff and dodging answers or unfulfilled promises then I am done for good.

At that point, it won’t even be about coming back when it’s fixed or “when it’s ready”. I will be to the point where I don’t trust their reliability.

Anyway, here’s to tomorrow and hoping for the best.

I´m a bit afraid that we will get only some dodging answers. Someone need to stunlock Jonathan or imobilize him till we get answers and he can´t dodge !!

No seriously.. 3 months from relase. PUG fighs premades, no matchmaking.

The game has its potencial, its great actually, no matter the balance of the casses or maps differences. You can fight and you get lot of motivation and adrenaline going on when fighting in paids and with equall opponents. The problem is.. you get these challenging games only like 1 game from evening.. and as average player i dont have access to play PAID every day – because at the end of tournament i always see same team and almost no chance to defeat it = loosing tickets fast.

JonathanSharp.7094:

We’re here, we’re listening. I’m sure a lot of this will come up in tomorrow’s talk. We’ll have to keep it quick though, as I think the talk is slated for an hour.

I hope you will answer some good questions there. I know lot of players is waiting for this as last chance for PvP in near future.

its just about chance of getting better items.

Basically you can have the items from any of theese chest, but if you want the rare items and for example glory boosters, dyes etc.. you have higher chance in gold chest, while in cooper you will probably get only common trash items.

hard question.. hm… what do i miss in GW2, oh.. yeas.. i know

COMPETITION !

playing hot-joins games is giving so many desilusions on real play in tournaments.

i know people like it.. but then why are you suprised to see thief / mesmer compositions?

Xiomaro.2563:

Hi guys,

Thought I’d open a discussion about the state of sPvP.

I think you pretty much sumarized all the important issues while still being objective. In fact i see that everyvhere and even Ring of Fire as a strong sPvP server is less and less populated in MISTs..

shame, the game has potencial but failed as many others to one thing. Players no longer tolerate development of key features after relase. They still accept lot of small issues, but not key elements.

Poxxia.1547:

@Aragiel:
I think we could agree on a great deal of thing
Anyway, I completely agree, that the ladder is not implemented, and it is crucial that it is being done.
Let me explain my situatino: All my buddies left the game, and many guilds are barely hanging in there, many have been abandoned. I think that people making bonds in an MMO is important. If you are not so fortunate to be a part of a gaming-network, then you are more or less pugging your way through the game at the moment. That is imho not ideal :’(
I used to be a part a large gaming community, but since I am an old fart, many has left it (wife, kids and jobs … the usuals). I hope to find some new ppl along the way, and I hope GW2 is the game where it will happen as GW1 was where the adventure started for me.

I hope my motives are clear … I think I am not alone in that situation

You are not allone, im in similar situation. GW1 was a start game for me as well. So shame till now nothing can be even close to GW1 PvP scene.
Im actually in same situation with friends and community. Till now i still have my guild but its also loosing members and in our community i see a hudge drop of activity.. my friendlist of 30+ players is now only 5-7 active in prime time. Thats a bad sign to me.

Lets hope, we get some fix and some good news very soon..

I said that in different topic allready

take GW2 combat, proffesions, skills, weapons etc… and take GW1 pvp modes, systems, elo rating. Then mix it together and .. here we go awesome product.

Poxxia.1547:

@Aragiel:
If you want to explore the full potential of conquest before adding new maps, I fear the game will lose players on that account. Sure the game will be able to hold on to the very dedicated tpvp-players on that account but imho that is not enough. It is not like new maps are something revolutionary … nor is conquest. It is not like adding a new class. I might add that GW1 had a huge variety in maps. Check the pvp of GW1 if you didn’t play it

I think it all has to be added in order to help maintaining the playerbase. I may be wrong.
Again: You assume to know THE reason why people leave the game; saying it only makes it a factoid. I dare to say you don’t know the reason(s) … nor do I.

I know the map of GvG, played GW1 for years and always mainly for GvG. Other gamemodes were just for fun to me. But i know they also had their own strong playerbase (every person has his own preference of course).
I also agree with you that of course new modes and new maps will get some attention of players and keep them playing longer. What im still trying to say (and maybe i do it wrong) is that all this new features will be great a nice to have but first i think noone like to be stomped by premade if playing solo and noone like to get stomped but team who obviously is playing totaly different league.
ladder and matchmaking might not be the right solution maybe different system but separating pug / premades and feeling of games that are fair for both sides will for sure make the game more enjoyable.
Ideal situation for next big PVP patch in my point of view would be
- matchmaking implementation (any kind, ladder dont need to be involved)
- custom arenas
- temple of silent storm included to tournament rotation

Its also true i can´t say that i know – these are my own opinions of course and the way i see it. But since i have organized a big enough community of czech sPvP players i know also their opinions which are daily discussed on our forum. And mostly they are discussing different levels of play and how annoying is to play a game that you lost in the moment you have joined the game.

Semprenaviguare.2936:

this evening in tournement :

i ve 8 map stuck !
each time a thief dammage me before my death .

in my team 2 other players have too 4 and 5 time this bug map stuck
each time a thief in the fight before the death .

all other fight without thief = 0 bug map stuck .

i am 100% This bug is related to a skill of the thief before death

i had the bug many times without playing against thieves.. so i dont agree with your opinion.

Khalifahaze.6045:

Never said it would be the winning comp. I just see a lot of ppl running it and it’s sooo annoying lol

ok, then we understeand each other.

also why not implement 1 class rule.. so simple..

Khalifahaze.6045:

Yeah 3v3 sounds about right. I see a lot of triple guardian teams if that happens ftl

not going to WIN – same like this setup is not going to win 5v5 conquest.

its annoying but not the winning setup.

Thirsty.2875:

I agree 100% but the reason they didn’t do this is because they wanted GW2 PvP to be an e-sport. HA wasn’t really e-sport material no matter how awesome it was because it was impossible to balance with all the different class/subclass, skill, game types involved. This is less of an issue with GW2 but they put all their PvP resources into trying to make it an e-sport first and slowly make it more enjoyable for most of the players and they needed to do that in reverse order. Especially because they didn’t launch with the features needed to be an e-sport anyways.

so we have a WINNER

- take combat, proffesions, skill mechanic etc. from GW2
- take matchmaking / ladder / game modes from GW1

mix it and here we go = GW3

1v1 is highly class depending. As i have organized some of 1v1 fights i allready have some idea on what class is pretty good (necro / ranger) in 1v1 and what classess almost have no use expect some specific build (thief = no chance if they dont play caltrops kitteny build).

1v1 therefore can´t be competitive unless you split the community based on proffesions and make all tournaments and games mirror matches = but that would be boring to watch probably.

So in fact i see more potencial in small arenas like 3v3 or maybe high count datahmatch like 6v6.

Actually having 5v5 conquest + 3v3 deathmatch arena both with working matchmaking and ladder could be nice.

Poxxia.1547:

@Aragiel:
You/I don’t really know, what other people think. We don’t know if they will find it more fun or if it is going to take longer for them to get tired of new game modes.

GvG did include rankings and gave me (and some other people I know) a reason to both join guilds and do GvG. For some these are valid reasons. GvG also opened up for various maps.

I can’t see, why we can’t have both matchmaking a variation in the maps and modes? I think it is a must really in order to keep the feeling of being fresh, but hey .. I could be wrong

Sure, i can´t know. But considering how fast people get bored here, and also in other new games. I can expect to be the same for any new content. The reason why you want to do something repetitive is not new map, but new scenario – new option, new way how to defeat your opponent.

At this point, i believe we have not seen full potencial of Conquest. I mean the games we are playing right now are just placeholders, nothing serious.. nothing you can say.. wow.. that was great. (or you say it only 1-2 times per evening).

Of course we can have also new map. But i meant it as an order… First we need to fix why people leave current game, and then when we have solid and stable bacground, you can add something new..

I still dont get why people asking for new gamemodes?

New gamemode in this enviroment, will get boring as hell within same ammount of time. Same like i do believe custom arenas will not help to PvP at this moment and in this state
Why do people believe there will be something different in new gamemode? Will it solve balance? no, will it solve bugs? no. Will it be more FUN? yes, but only for limited time again.

I will be saying this over and over. In order to improve sPvP – we need to see WHAT IS THE ROOT CAUSE of problems? Why to people dont consider it FUN?

i strongly believe the reason behind this is current implementation of tournament system + missing matchmaking.
Theese leading to situation where there are almost NO matches that are worth to speak of.. that are worth to enjoy, that are worth to spend time. Its pretty simply. PUGS and solo players matched against premades and top level teams.
Top levels teams matched against low level teams..

thats the reason people DO NOT HAVE FUN.. because the games are not fair.

Now lets imagine, we do have mathmaking system (still no ladder table, but somewhere hidden there is your team ELO rating). Then we have nothing else than 2 tournaments queue (yes, no hot-joins anymore).
1) queue for solo and incomlete groups only
2) queue for full premades

now when matchmaking is working.. top teams fighting top teams, low team matched with low teams. = everyone having challenge, everyone having fun and on top of that = THERE ARE NO QUEUE times because there is no split in community.

Then you will see conquest as totaly different game with different potencial..

and yes, it will become boring eventually, but then its the time to work on additions – like custom arenas, and new gamemodes.

At this state of game, custom or new gamemodes are only short term solution to post few happy topics on forum and in like 1 or 2 months maximum.. we will scream again..

to make it simple

why new toys, when there is noone to use them?

As long as PUG groups will fight PREMADES and PREMADES that are trying to be competitive are fighting hardcore TOP teams.. there will be a negative trend.

Remember.. Anet wanted to make PvP easier for new players, more rewarding, easy to join and easy to play.
Well, its working. !!!
- You get reward for playing pretty bad (glory) and ignoring game objectives
- you can join easy any time and zerg as long as you want
- Its easy to play some classess (looking at you Thief and Guardian)
Well, as long as there is no matchmaking and ladder we will never see full potencial of the game. And if they right now are working on Custom Arenas… then its bad move again.. because it will not solve that PUG´s playing against PREMADES and get stomped … also it will not solve that average compettetive team is fighting hardcore one. These games are simply not FUN.. noone enjoys easy victory or fast deadth without option to defend..

Rewarding and glory is always hard.

In any case i would do it like this.

Every game got “glory pool” for each team. All kills, cap points, etc are added to glory pool instead to player directly.
At the end of game winning side get 100 glory as bonus for WINNING. Then the glory pool will be divided betwen players (only those that were playing for at least 1/3 of the game).
There is only issue with autobalancing in hot-joins.. but well, that could be sometimes bad for one person.. but still better than promoting zerging and GLORY HUNTING.

yes, of course its not perfect system, but i prefer promoting team play instead of single players. It simply leads to zerging and not taking care about what is really objective and what is reason to go to PvP. And reason should be alway TO WIN and not TO GET GLORY.

Btw, Theloneaven – check this one https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/PvE-rewards-XP-Karma-in-PvP/ also a good idea.

any news? WHEN ITS going to be hotfixed? (well.. slowfixed). Its a serious issue, same like game crash

theloneaven.5206:

@Aragiel. I agree that community communication is important, but I can see that promising things before they (the developpers) are 100% sure that it’s implementable and wont cause issues could lead to more frustration with the players. I’m curious to a developper’s opinion on this one.

on the other hand, when they are 100% sure, it means there is no comming back offten which also lead to point and question, what if community will not agree on this? what if they dont like it?

noone wants to have empty promisses here. Thats clear. But this silence is pretty bad. From time to time there is like 2-3 posts and one of them is apologize that there is not enough time to answer all topics. Of course thats fine, but at leaste some concrete information. Right now im not sure – next patch? what will bring me? they said, something about custom arenas, but will it means custom arenas are planned for next big PvP patch? if yes, then they probably allready have system and are working on implementation / coding of that system – therefore the idea is ready and could be comunicated. But right now.. i think noghings going on.. just discussion or brainstorming.. leading me to the point.. “do i want to stay for next 3 months? or not?”