I have to admit that it’s rather depressing to read the sPvP forum, over 80% of threads..are based on complaints.
Right now , I believe that both the devs and the community should focus the attention on what is not considered “OP” aka not viable, this is the only possible way to create a healthy environment for old and new players, in my opinion, right now the general atmosphere on these forum is rather…toxic, radioactive I’d say, people seems to be more concerned in suggesting nerfs for other professions than giving buffs suggestions for their own professions.
Despite all the negative comments, we as a community must admit that the last balance patch was a success, we saw the creation of quite few new builds, but this has not changed the number of possible playstyles available to each profession, the options are still limited and this because there are weapon sets on each profession that cannot be considered accomplished, there are entire trait lines that don’t get used at all.
So everybody, let’s find ways to improve what doesn’t work instead than damage what works now, do we want a set of strong builds ( with none overshadowing the others) for each profession or a set of mediocre builds( with some completely unusable) for every profession?
It works like this when you get a good team:
Warrior :" go on and burst them down, I’ve locked them down for you"
Thief :" no need to watch your back, I’ll watch it for you"
Mesmer :" they’ve thought they were winning…they were wrong"
Guardian:" just hide behind me, I’ll cover for you"
Engineer: “I give you..superior firepower, trash them!”
Ranger :" keep them away from me..they’ll go down soon"
Necromancer :“time to turn the tides of this battle..to our favour”
Elementalist:" when you need…where you need"
With the shift in the meta, having an Elementalist on your team flat out gimps you in competitive play. How can we fix this?
By toning down spirit rangers and necromancers.
@Diogo , the problem here is that I’d like to move away from this nerfing game, the way I see it, Anet is using this nerfing game to avoid the root of the problem which include several factors for the ele :
- the focus is not viable both in PvP and PvE, I’m not talking about the lack of mobility which get compensated by great defensive skills in earth, in air we find decent skills, but is in fire and water that the skills are complete garbage
- the staff is too heavily based on teamplay, where it becomes un-viable outside extremely coordinated gameplay ( like rainbow spike in GW1 ), which I don’t see even at top levels, nobody can protect you for long when a s/d thief, warrior or any other class sit on you while using a staff, you become a free kill where you spend more time kiting that actually help your team
- there is almost complete lack of active defenses on this profession, the only weapon set which offers the best compromise between active and passive defenses is..D/D.
I’d like to see more active defense on scepter and staff where I can keep the enemy at distance without becoming uncatchable
(edited by Arheundel.6451)
With the shift in the meta, having an Elementalist on your team flat out gimps you in competitive play. How can we fix this?
The roster will be hidden in Solo Q so this doesn’t happen.
+100
There is lightning flash-updraft or earthquake-lightning flash to start your combo
But if that isn’t your answer, then please tell me why power damage team comps declined and condition damage team comps is becoming more prominent?
I’ve said it before, but not in this thread: the rise of condition builds happened because of the guardian and elementalist bunkers that were literally uncrackable in a non-condition build. And the main building blocks of those two builds did not change, if conditions as a whole gets nerfed, we’ll just go back to zerk-vs-bunker gameplay. Not a fun meta.
Even more than before an ele can’t hold a point like a true bunker after the series of nerfs he has received, the guardian has been nerfed also, so I don’t see how a return to 2012 meta can ever be possible….and talking about fun, to face a double engy-necro-spirit ranger-guardian team is not fun either
They stated already that not all weapon sets can be viable in PvP, ele staff is one of them, you should just give up on staff and move on
great job, really great job!
I like how Eviscerate teleports Warriors to the other side of the map and they still hit, but FG requires some skill and preparation.
Why? Because despite everybody calling us OP due to a guy exploiting the hell out of PvE consumables while kiting Uplevelled warriors and thieves in blue gear (all that on the US Servers, where most 1vsX PvDers videos are made), Ele is hard to excel at. And that is a good thing.
I believe is everybody aim to play the game for fun, I couldn’t care less of people calling me pro or noob accordingly to the profession I play, it’s a videogame..it’s not meant for anything else really, therefore FG should hit as easily as eviscerate, I play the game for fun, I play the ele ’cause I like the concept not because I care to wait for some unknown kid on internet to call me pro or noob
Seen as the ele effectively lack pull skills on its main weapons and seen the difficulty to land Fire Grab reliably , why don’t we change the animation with something more in line with the actual name of the skill?
It’s called Fire Grab so a pull animation would be perfect, I can only imagine the benefit of having a pull/burst skill on ele.
- able to catch running foes
- viable alternative to lightning flash
- effective burst that may reduce the need of slotting arcane skills
The CD would remain the same at kitten and also the extra dmg on burning, the pull animation would be a visible projectile with a speed similar to magnetic grasp.
I don’t see anything OP about my suggestion, it’s true that a hard hitting skill would become easier to land, but the point of having a kitten CD is to actually compensate for the dmg, to have an additional layer of difficulty in delivering that dmg is therefore unnecessary in my opinion.
Discuss
S Tier:
NONE
A Tier:
=Guardian
+Necromancer
=Mesmer
=Engineer
B Tier:
+Warrior
=Thief
=Ranger
=Ele
To all warriors who still insist on the C tier falsity…I can upload videos of shield/mace warriors stunlocking to death my necromancer, burst ele as both got no access to stability, it’s literally perma-stun…I don’t think warriors are anymore in position to complain about blind as now you need to run a counter build to avoid being stun-locked literally to death.
P.S and yeah longbow warriors are not joke at all….
The current patch is an attempt to do small “shavings” to bring the class into line with these goals, in the same way we tried to “shave” the Ele numerous times, rather than “nerfing it from orbit”. Are all Ele specs equally viable in all game types? No. Is this ok? Yes. Staff can see play in one game type while D/D or S/D see play in others. As we’ve said, we’ll split skills/weapons more and more in the variuos game types, but each time we split a skill, it gives us more update work down the road. We have to be very prudent when we split skills.
@Jonathan Sharp
Now that we have confirmation from the devs that staff ele is not entirely viable in all game types, maybe we can now more safely have a discussion on what could be a viable 1200 range weapon for ele to be used in tPvP/sPvP
Specifically I’m talking about a 1200 range weapon that does quite well against single targets both at 1200 range and mele range.
But there are some problems I found that maybe can be solved if we all try to come up with a solution, for instance:
-The s/d set is the official duellist set for ele
-d/d is more for tank/PBaoe dmg
-staff is clearly a support weapon that require a team to support you
-mesmer is the best dmg dealer from 1200 range, not easy to close on him
So in the end we need something that has its own playstyle and doesn’t conflict with what other professions can offer.
What do you propose?
(edited by Arheundel.6451)
…………
http://images5.fanpop.com/image/photos/30300000/Godzilla-Facepalm-godzilla-30354011-640-387.jpg
Pls god have mercy on this poor soul, OP I’ll pray for your safety
1. If you’re wasting a full burst on a death shroud then L2P.
2. Necro has protection, L2P.
3. L2P.
1. +1
2. +1
3. +1
Bought this game on release, came back only recently. Already quitting again due to the terrible state of sPvP, primarily due to this function and solo queue being missing.
This game has done more good for MOBA’s than anything the MOBA developers have ever done. One of if not the most popular MMO outside of WoW has treated its PvP with such insane disregard that it absolutely boggles the mind. I do not think I have ever so quickly decided to go back to DOTA/LoL from “taking a break to play another game” in the many years I have been a gamer.
Err…if you want Solo Q…you should…um…how do I say this….“check back” ….. “soon”.
You like to tease people heh? ^^
Anyway, I can assume a soloq leaderboard will come along with soloq mode…can’t I?
If one of the devs read this forum, pls there is a clipping issue with the light armor chest piece, dunno if it’s intended or not, I can see some skin at the end of it when the trouser piece start
If I take a look at GW1 and then at GW2, I can’t help but feel saddened at the way the words :" Top Player" get used, these words have basically lost any meaning.
2. Consider the creative mind of the playerbase.
Sometimes, there are really good builds that are not discovered for months on end. This is affected by our current playerbase, as well as a revolving meta.
This is not meant as a slight, but the truth is that sometimes things are changing so quickly that you guys just don’t have time to explore new builds and find that one gem that has escaped others.
3. Allow previous changes to settle.
This ties in to the previous two listed. The balance changes we make are very deliberate and calculated. This means that we need to give you guys time to find the gems that we have put in the game, and then allow the meta to adapt to your creative mind.
Sadly the majority of the player-base does not want to adapt, they find a build and that is it, they want to run with that particular build over and over again , as soon as they lose to a counter build..they’ll come to complain on the forum, while maybe using a different set up, runes, utilities they would be perfectly able to beat that counter build.
To put it simply not everybody follow a strategical approach, the majority only wish for “a build to rule them all” .
I want chill to effectively reduce initiative regeneration rate, just in the same way it does for CD of normal skills
@DiogoSilva
-Burst ele “team support”…it’s just there….with very low healing power, you can heal nearby allies for 3k …every 40s, other professions ( mesmer/thief/necro) deal over 12k dmg in …3s
-Burst ele remove a condition from nearby allies…every 10s….necros/engy can apply 4-5 conditions with the auto-attack..on the whole team
-Fresh Air burst build is not strong at all…it’s max 4k dmg( air burst) in total every 5-10s and it still takes a player knowledgeable about positioning & timing in order to survive with 13k HP, as the rest of your burst come from fire that require you to be at mele range,
-By contrast any scrub can make a mesmer, use decoy and mass invisibility, hide behind wall and summon 2-3 Iduellist , then shatter whole enemy team for 12k+ dmg
-A burst mesmer can still push far point and win against an engy, ranger…a fresh air ele will have to work 3x harder with as much risk that a thief/mesmer close on you while stealthed.
-A fresh air ele build is more punishing than GS mesmer and s/d thief
(edited by Arheundel.6451)
Actually the stealth mechanic can be easily implemented on eles, from a lore point of view an ele should be able to attain invisibility through the manipulation of light, a smoke screen on land would work too
I’m hoping that the fact it takes so long is because they want to launch it together with the reward overhaul and such.
By the time they’ll introduce the reward system..there will be no player left to enjoy it
I already covered this before but it absolutely should not work the way it does for launch and knockback.
As to anyone talking about how it’s no big deal try dueling the best ele’s in the game while they are running fresh air berserk amulet bursters. I’m talking hman, demise, zoose ect. I can pull it off sometimes but engie is pretty strong in duels and I am pretty dang good too. I’d love to see Arheundel who doesn’t even understand the concept of lightning flash combos try and play against a real top tier ele 1v1.
I’m not calling for any nerfs and I like the new build variety for eles. Just saying stunbreaks should break all stuns and never fizzle.
Played against @Phantaram and @Mogow ( did I get his name right?), @Ultima, @Alex ( a girl, an excellent ele player not well known I think) and another couple of guys I don’t remember their name now, and yeah with at least one stunbreaker ready and enough reaction time I avoided at least once all of their burst attempt
Maybe you don’t get it ..so let me explain again; with updraft, the ele does a backflip, during that time the target body is still jumping on the floor after that, you’ve got time to use a teleport/block/invulnerability stunbreakers.
The OP should work on his reaction time, it’s as simple as that, there is no need to use this mocking attitude of yours-
You state it’s a L2P issue as if I (and the others posting here) don’t already know all about waiting 2.5 seconds and then hitting a stun break. I do that every fight I obviously know all about it that’s why I talked about it in my post. That’s a passive-aggressive way to reply in the first place. At the end of the day do you honestly believe that stun breaks should not work against a knockback/launch? Doesn’t it bother you when you have the reaction time to avoid a burst but are forced to take it simply because the utility skill you specifically took to avoid these kind of situations doesn’t work?
Why are you even arguing against the community on this one when even the elementalists are talking about it being stupid/broken. I don’t think anyone cares that you take the unpopular and opposite side of the argument. It’s just the way you talk to people which makes everyone wish you would stop posting. Every thread you enter it’s L2P issue this and I don’t have these problems. Of course you don’t you don’t have to play against the best players in the world everyday where little things become big problems. Have some sympathy for others or at least start posting without the L2P stuff.
How did you end up representing the whole community?
There is no indication from the devs of that what the OP says is actually a bug, there are only assumptions from few players.
By simply looking at the fact that there are people capable of negating the whole launch ordeal, we can safely state that there is no bug, at the end of the day the stun-breakers do work normally once you finish jumping up and down on the floor.
Now how stating a simple truth can be considered offensive..I really dunno, you’re free to try the updraft combo against me and see for yourself if there is anything broken, record it or do whatever you want, just try me.- You’re not the community
- There is no official statement from the devs
- I and others got no problems with the launch animation
- The stun-breakers works at 100%No further discussion needed, this is pointless, you put the facts on the table and people are still in denial, then fine..you’re right.
Your logic is extremely flawed once again and since you’re too blind/biased to see it let me walk you through it slowly.
“There is no indication from the devs " = We don’t know officially whether this is a bug OR if it isn’t a bug. Yet here is your quote from later in the post “we can safely state that there is no bug”.
Is it working as intended? We don’t know but we do know that this point is completely irrelevant in the actual discussion. The true point of the thread is should this feature be changed. I’m all for listening to reasons why it shouldn’t be changed, even if they come from you. I’ve listed reasons for why it should be changed as have others.
You’re so conceited….that you fail to follow simple lines of thoughts, I’m genuinely scared at the idea of explaining again such simple facts.
So for the last time, the launch animation has no bugs, you need to time your stun-breakers, you can avoid all combos after a launch, people need to l2p…end
Changed the traits a little:
You’ll do fine, having above 400 pts in healing power is about right, above 1500 toughness good also, in the end the stats are very goods, still the s/d build is not made for 1vsX situations..on average I’d say this, you can win 1vsX in some cases, but most times you’ll lose against more than one opponent.
In a 1vs1 situation, yes there is potential to be basically unbeatable, but this ofc depends on the individual
@Amateratsu
This problem punishes people with fast reactions and there’s been many a times where I’ve died from it…updraft → stunbreak → frozen for 3s → free dps to death.
The videos I’ve posted prove the OP wrong, if you use the stun-breaker before it can be actually used….you should be punished, it’s simply as that, people can keep living in denial, in their little world where everything that goes wrong can always be attributed to external causes…or accept the truth that they need to learn
@Amateratsu
-NOTE- I don’t main thief, I use one only to learn animations, skill icons, builds etc etc
Video1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7H294yq-Xs&feature=youtu.be
Video2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SIZUg7VLW0&feature=youtu.be
Video3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sIWj-nh9aU&feature=youtu.be
OP, as you can see with a profession I don’t play normally, I dodge the phoenix all 3 times, you’re welcome to try yourself, call others or whatever…..or we can leave the situation as it is, your choice
Actually I’mn not quite sure I can agree.
Yeah, there is lot of whining in forums (what did You expect? It’s forum, internet, PvP related topic…).
Take stealth for example. You are talking about nerfing (whining to nerf stealth at least). Most topics about OPnes of stealth I saw was about fact that it can not be countered. Don’t give me crap about AoE – I play thief from time to time and I know how much “good” can do to my victim throwing AoEs in my general direction. There’s no need to nerf stealth as it is, just give some tools to deal with it to well… someone. At the moment no one have any proper tools to do that. One of reasons I like to play thief – I’m only in fights I want to be and as long as I am wining. Actually if not by someone who is two or three leagues better than me, I can’t reacal to be (ever) taken down.Agree on stun braker. Every class have some options, why force it into main build?
Agree more or less about rest, thou haven’t seen any one shooting Ele yet. Maybe it’s because I dpon’t play tourneys latley and my Ele is mostly for PvE, but hand on heart – can’t even reacall build You’re talking about.D\P thieves = use any kind of ranged daze or interrupt when they drop the smoke field = thief cannot use leap and cannot stealth anymore, he wasted 6 ini for nothing = now the thief is dead
Rangers, other thieves, mesmers and even necros with spectral wall can interrupt the stealth combo of a D\P thief, so now you have your counter, but it takes skills and not anyone in this game have the right skill for interrupting at the right time, easier to ask for a nerf right?
+1
I already covered this before but it absolutely should not work the way it does for launch and knockback.
As to anyone talking about how it’s no big deal try dueling the best ele’s in the game while they are running fresh air berserk amulet bursters. I’m talking hman, demise, zoose ect. I can pull it off sometimes but engie is pretty strong in duels and I am pretty dang good too. I’d love to see Arheundel who doesn’t even understand the concept of lightning flash combos try and play against a real top tier ele 1v1.
I’m not calling for any nerfs and I like the new build variety for eles. Just saying stunbreaks should break all stuns and never fizzle.
Played against @Phantaram and @Mogow ( did I get his name right?), @Ultima, @Alex ( a girl, an excellent ele player not well known I think) and another couple of guys I don’t remember their name now, and yeah with at least one stunbreaker ready and enough reaction time I avoided at least once all of their burst attempt
Maybe you don’t get it ..so let me explain again; with updraft, the ele does a backflip, during that time the target body is still jumping on the floor after that, you’ve got time to use a teleport/block/invulnerability stunbreakers.
The OP should work on his reaction time, it’s as simple as that, there is no need to use this mocking attitude of yours-
You state it’s a L2P issue as if I (and the others posting here) don’t already know all about waiting 2.5 seconds and then hitting a stun break. I do that every fight I obviously know all about it that’s why I talked about it in my post. That’s a passive-aggressive way to reply in the first place. At the end of the day do you honestly believe that stun breaks should not work against a knockback/launch? Doesn’t it bother you when you have the reaction time to avoid a burst but are forced to take it simply because the utility skill you specifically took to avoid these kind of situations doesn’t work?
Why are you even arguing against the community on this one when even the elementalists are talking about it being stupid/broken. I don’t think anyone cares that you take the unpopular and opposite side of the argument. It’s just the way you talk to people which makes everyone wish you would stop posting. Every thread you enter it’s L2P issue this and I don’t have these problems. Of course you don’t you don’t have to play against the best players in the world everyday where little things become big problems. Have some sympathy for others or at least start posting without the L2P stuff.
How did you end up representing the whole community?
There is no indication from the devs of that what the OP says is actually a bug, there are only assumptions from few players.
By simply looking at the fact that there are people capable of negating the whole launch ordeal, we can safely state that there is no bug, at the end of the day the stun-breakers do work normally once you finish jumping up and down on the floor.
Now how stating a simple truth can be considered offensive..I really dunno, you’re free to try the updraft combo against me and see for yourself if there is anything broken, record it or do whatever you want, just try me.
- You’re not the community
- There is no official statement from the devs
- I and others got no problems with the launch animation
- The stun-breakers works at 100%
No further discussion needed, this is pointless, you put the facts on the table and people are still in denial, then fine..you’re right.
(edited by Arheundel.6451)
I did a test on this today with my team’s ele.
I can EASILY eat a 5k+ combo without being able to stunbreak until it’s done.
Here’s what we tried out:
Ele: Lightning flash + Updraft -> (in midst of updraft – Arcane Wave + Blast) -> lighting 2
The above was a 100% guaranteed hit once you’re hit with updraft. By the time you’re able to stunbreak you’ve already eaten the full dmg of 5 skills (4 if you count out updraft not having any dmg)
How do you feel about that Arheundel? You think that it is right that (whatever you want to call them) launch or knockback CCs should be the only skills that stunbreaks fail to work properly against while every other CC you can instantly stunbreak out of?
I also tried combo’ing my backstab burst combo with his updraft combo and we bursted a necro at full hp down in 1s. And guess what? There is nothing he can do about it.
Mind you, blink stunbreaks are the better stunbreaks for these…if you tried to use a stunbreak like a mesmer’s decoy during this, you’re stuck in the same spot in which you are updrafted so you’re screwed even more.
Most of the dmg come when you hit the ground anyway, a sensible solution would be to allow the target to stunbreaker immediately when they touch the floor, although there is to say this : all non target area stunbreakers can be activated while still in flight, insta skills can still be activated even before touching the ground.
Invulnerability skills completely block the updraft combo, but personally I can negate updraft combo even with lightning flash.
The issue is being rooted in place besides the fact you stunbroke the control effect.
I believe it’s you, who can’t follow simple logic.
Don’t insult me, please. It is sad threads get derailed into futile discussions by your prescence time and time again.
Read the above sentence again. The bug I am talking about: correctly using your stunbreaker, but still remaining unable to control you character.
What it’s sad that every time I get somebody like you insulting me, telling me to shut up or more, if you can’t accept the fact that somebody can disagree with you…don’t join discussions at all?How am I derailing the thread?
I am talking about launch and updraft, I’m not talking about the weather or what I’m gonna eat tonight..so how in the world I’m derailing the thread?
I don’t think it’s a bug and I disagree with you, and how this give you the rights to tell me off..I dunno, I pray in RL you don’t go and call crazy, sad or stupid anyone who disagree with you
and still you are running through threads flapping with your arms and all i read is “cluckclucklcuk”
well, at least you are funny with your “do they make any sense” while actually thinking your posts make some.
So you did read your post and realized how stupid it sounds, so now you use this childish remark hoping to achieve something, unfortunately you have achieved nothing….
Going back to my question…how would you nerf me if the target is allowed now to use stunbreaker during the flying animation?
You went and said :" QQ you’re afraid of getting nerfed"..exactly what nerf are you talking about? Can you answer this simple question?…I think at most you’ll give us another of your..remarks, but pls prove me wrong
Arheundel, stop going offtopic in every thread you post in!
The issue is being rooted in place besides the fact you stunbroke the control effect. You remain stuck in the same position, standing fully upright. It has nothing to do with failing to use your stunbreaker correctly!
A video of this bug would be quite helpful. Maybe someone who streams can provide one?
All stunbreakers should be tested on all control effects to document this bug.
A bit much to ask the community, but something that could be done on a Test Realm with a team of dedicated players, if there was one…
I believe it’s you, who can’t follow simple logic:
KD= on the floor
Launch= flying animation + on the floor –
You can’t use stunbreaker during flying animation, it’s that simple really…where is this bug? The most they could do is to allow you to use a stunbreaker while your body still jumping on the floor at the end of the flying animation, still with the launch there is a distance created between the target and the caster, use that distance to do do something, if you can’t well it’s your fault
funny how people defend an obvious bug because they fear their class/classmechanic will get nerfed.
“Skills that stun break will cancel control effects such as stun”
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stun_break“Control effects, also known as disables, are a set of effects that temporarily prevent actions or movement and disable all skills for the effect’s duration.”
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Control_effect
Pls reflect on your words, do they make any sense?
Even if you’d be allowed to use a stun-breaker mid-air( that’s not fast reaction time at all, a whole second flying, it’s more than enough for even a new player to press a button for a stunbreaker), I’d still use my CC when you’re out of options anyway, so you’ll still get hit in the end, if I want to hit you , I can use fire auto-attack( 2s burning) -LF- firegrab ( switch to air during firegrab animation for fury boon) – double lightning strike…or I can simply force shadow step out of you if possible.
Pls do tell me about what nerf I should be afraid of…
I already covered this before but it absolutely should not work the way it does for launch and knockback.
As to anyone talking about how it’s no big deal try dueling the best ele’s in the game while they are running fresh air berserk amulet bursters. I’m talking hman, demise, zoose ect. I can pull it off sometimes but engie is pretty strong in duels and I am pretty dang good too. I’d love to see Arheundel who doesn’t even understand the concept of lightning flash combos try and play against a real top tier ele 1v1.
I’m not calling for any nerfs and I like the new build variety for eles. Just saying stunbreaks should break all stuns and never fizzle.
Played against @Phantaram and @Mogow ( did I get his name right?), @Ultima, @Alex ( a girl, an excellent ele player not well known I think) and another couple of guys I don’t remember their name now, and yeah with at least one stunbreaker ready and enough reaction time I avoided at least once all of their burst attempt
Maybe you don’t get it ..so let me explain again; with updraft, the ele does a backflip, during that time the target body is still jumping on the floor after that, you’ve got time to use a teleport/block/invulnerability stunbreakers.
The OP should work on his reaction time, it’s as simple as that, there is no need to use this mocking attitude of yours
-
Stop the nonsense.
Launch not breaking stuns is silly, and tbh seems like a bug because of how they handle skill activation in the air, funny how I can teleport while launched, I’ll be on my two feet, but can’t move. Hit Protect me while launched and nothing.
I understand you care about the Ele Arheundel, but this is silly it’s not even Elementalist specific.
It’s not at all nonsense and this got nothing to do with the fact that I play ele, the fact is there are quite few clues on what is about to happen to you, I got killed myself by updraft+combo, I wasn’t ready for it, but I guarente you that while the ele flip back and change attunement you’ve got plenty of time to do something.
Every launch animation in the game got a clearly clue behind it, the guardians/warrior swing their hammer back so you can dodge/block/blind it, the ele is in air attunement and possibly running towards you..what more do you need?
The OP is asking to use stunbreaker while mid-air, it’d be a kd then and no more a launch, the only difference is that you are mid-air instead than being on the ground…
@Xeph
-While a valkyrie ele may have more sustain compared to a mesmer/thief , it’s also true that ele remain still more susceptible to burst and CC train lock compared to the them, with good positioning that extra sustain may come in handy but otherwise you die much faster
- I’m aware of the dmg potential of burning, one of the builds I use is a tank support with great condition dmg against which, s/d thieves normally die.
My point is why we should halve the dmg of arcane skills and add conditional condition dmg, taking arcane skills over other utilities already lower our sustain so why should we be punished further for using them?
The ele burst can be predicted and avoided, after that, a double arcane ele got little defense against full burst rotation, a mistake and they’re dead, there are cons to the spec, therefore the s/d burst ele build is not so OP that require such severe nerfs.
- I use blinds to secure stomps on most professions, I recognize the interrupt animation and blind them, I can use blind while KDed so to block at least one bust skill, I can use blind to block dangerous burst skills..blind can save my life.
Weakness..I still get hit, for less dmg, but still get hit…so weakness may not save my life like blind, therefore by replacing blind with weakness you would nerf me
-Using a double arcane build in soloq, it’s not really a great idea, you are more easily brought down while being in a team you can’t trust
(edited by Arheundel.6451)
I think this has been brought up in the past before, but I do feel it’s a very important matter to fix – especially for the thief class.
Certain CCs such as an ele’s updraft causes a 2-3s COMPLETE freeze for a character if you try to stunbreak out of it too early…now we’ve been dealing with this problem by simply waiting until you’re done “thumping” on the floor, then stunbreaking…however it is NOT a solution by any means. Especially nowadays where 30 air eles are popular, you can’t afford to wait for the thumping to finish because before you can properly stunbreak, they would have already gotten a full lightning + phoenix rotation on you…It’s like you die if you don’t stunbreak and you die IF you stunbreak.
This problem punishes people with fast reactions and there’s been many a times where I’ve died from it…updraft -> stunbreak -> frozen for 3s -> free dps to death.
What is the point of a stunbreak if it leaves you frozen afterwards? I believe this is an important thing to look into and fix.
Updraft is a knockback, not a knockdown, if you use the stunbreak while still flying or still jumping on the floor..then you waste your stunbreaker, it’s the same with every other knockback in game.
Fast reaction times means I teleport/stun break and dodge before any phoenix arrive, as the ele needs to be at close range to use updraft I’d say you need more battle awareness, seeing as visible lightnings around his wrists should give you enough indication of what the ele can do at that moment
You cannot be serious….?
“Control effects
-Daze
-Fear
-Float
-Knockdown
-Launch (Blowout)
-Pull
-Push (Knockback)
-Sink1
-Stun
-Deep Freeze from Conjure Frost Bow.
-Petrified caused by Basilisk Venom”Do you propose that I dodge before he can Lighting #1-2-3 instantly as well while I thump along waiting to stunbreak? As a FYI you cannot wait to get up and dodge a phoenix anymore after the recent patch making phoenix a flying jet.
A CC is a CC, there is no reason why I should have to wait and take the a few hits first before I can stunbreak.
Seems like you play a different game.
With updraft the ele roll back and you have plenty of time to use an ideal stunbreaker like shadow step or skills like shadow return, the recent change on phoenix was made so that you don’t wait to get up and walk away like before.
You’ve got plenty of time to move away from the incoming phoenix, assuming you do really have fast reaction time, the ele has rolled back and then switched to fire, target area and use phoenix…against mesmers/thieves I don’t get all that time and I still manage to dodge or use stunbreakers
Burning in a s/d burst battle build after 12 stacks of might would hit for 420 dmg for second..after 12 stacks of might mind you
Well if your only getting 12 stacks of might thats your problem. Even at 420 damage thats 1260 over 3 seconds. If the blind was changed to weakness I still don’t see why that’s bad. So now you have more damage mitigation. And if you bothered to read my posts, I don’t necessarily agree with phanta’s solution. I just hate when people like you post such terrible arguments that don’t address the point at all and then make snide remarks. But Phanta nailed it earlier.
I’d just ignore arheundal just based on my past experience. He just argues for the sake of it I think.
This is good advice, going to follow it from now on.
Burst ele = 13k HP
You need dmg and fast..or you die fast, not enough toughness or HP to wait for mediocre burning dmg to run its effect and hopefully put enough pressure on the enemy, for 12 stacks of might it means you have already gone through a full burst rotation and that 1260 burning dmg means nothing as in those 3s you can get killed .
Having a single blind every 20s+ is not OP at all..so why replace it with weakness?
Again..I use hard math, take the numbers and compare, then make my comments, the OP is suggesting to nerf dmg for an already squishy spec with not enough returns and for reasons that would benefit only a team as nobody run a double arcane ele outside organized matches.
And for the last time..the devs read the forums, I put down numbers for them to consider before any hasty decision is made, I don’t see how your consideration would benefit me in any way…so be my guest lol
As the majority has not been using elemental surge up to this moment, I’d say your idea is completely baseless, no real thought behind it
The problem is the lack of global cooldown. But to completely change the mechanics of silly. It is better to slightly reduce the damage, but to ignore toughness.
Stealths
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Infusion_of_Shadow
Add 3 sec cd. The problem with constant stealth solved.
And to balance:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Bring-back-3-sec-revealed
No arcane skills do take toughness in consideration, you can test yourself in HoM.
But yes an ICD would placate the mob, while still not making arcane skills completely useless; a 2k dmg every 20s or so while having 13k HP , I believe there must be a trade off for having so low HP and 2k dmg every 20s is really not Op at all
/Sigh, it was going pretty good for a while there.
You’re assuming people would use it for burning(which can hit hard in a s/d with battle build), you could blind in air or use them to set up burst with an imob while in earth.
Maybe you should read the OP better before posting..he proposes to remove the blind and add weakness, in earth you get a 1s immobilize , outside the air burst, everything else got a travel time therefore I wonder how exactly you would use that 1s immobilize…
Burning in a s/d burst battle build after 12 stacks of might would hit for 420 dmg for second..after 12 stacks of might mind you, an arcane blast with halved dmg would deal 800 dmg and still have 20s CD, so somebody would replace let’s say a cantrip for this new arcane blast..really?
Hard math is my language, gibberish not my tastes..
I think this has been brought up in the past before, but I do feel it’s a very important matter to fix – especially for the thief class.
Certain CCs such as an ele’s updraft causes a 2-3s COMPLETE freeze for a character if you try to stunbreak out of it too early…now we’ve been dealing with this problem by simply waiting until you’re done “thumping” on the floor, then stunbreaking…however it is NOT a solution by any means. Especially nowadays where 30 air eles are popular, you can’t afford to wait for the thumping to finish because before you can properly stunbreak, they would have already gotten a full lightning + phoenix rotation on you…It’s like you die if you don’t stunbreak and you die IF you stunbreak.
This problem punishes people with fast reactions and there’s been many a times where I’ve died from it…updraft -> stunbreak -> frozen for 3s -> free dps to death.
What is the point of a stunbreak if it leaves you frozen afterwards? I believe this is an important thing to look into and fix.
Updraft is a knockback, not a knockdown, if you use the stunbreak while still flying or still jumping on the floor..then you waste your stunbreaker, it’s the same with every other knockback in game.
Fast reaction times means I teleport/stun break and dodge before any phoenix arrive, as the ele needs to be at close range to use updraft I’d say you need more battle awareness, seeing as visible lightnings around his wrists should give you enough indication of what the ele can do at that moment
I’d just ignore arheundal just based on my past experience. He just argues for the sake of it I think.
Once again you prove how short sighted you are, ignoring the fact that arcane skills have already been nerfed 3 times, you ask now to even halve the dmg, that would make them completely useless as a burst ele got no condition dmg to start with , a mere 3s burning for example would means nothing.
As the majority has not been using elemental surge up to this moment, I’d say your idea is completely baseless, no real thought behind it
Your entire thread is based on team-play experiences and your solutions would clearly benefit a team, the changes you suggest would ruin the fun for many on all different formats GW2 has to offer.
Could you elaborate? Are perma stealth thives, condi burst necros, and other strong builds not annoying in solo queue or hot join? Is this an issue with these for WvW, are they not a nusance there too?
Changes don’t happen with hotjoin/wvwvw in mind, that’s why any change in tpvp can have a huge negative effect on the rest of the game, there is no indication of wvwvw/hotjoin in the OP, there is no double arcane ele outside tPvP with an organized team, outside organized teams a double arcane ele get focused down and die in 3s, his suggestion to lower by half the arcane skills dmg , would negatively effect all those eles who soloq or hotjoin or wvwvwv that can’t count on an engy to watch your back.
Elementalist Burst combo – You can chain many instant cast abilities together and affectively do what any dagger thief does and bring someone from 100-0 in split seconds, but as an elementalist you bring so much more to a team than a dagger thief. Arcane spells are to blame in my opinion. Weaken arcane spell damage drastically (100% – 125% less damage) but give them some kind of utility. Say… make elemental surge base line? Just reduce the burning to 3 seconds. 5 seconds would be too strong. And maybe make air spells 2 seconds of weakness because so much access to blinds is also pretty crazy. Yeah just tone down the base line elemental surge and all is well.
Just to add in some practical evidence.
And yea, stealth can only be balanced by removing it.
A glass cannon ele “one-shotting” a glass cannon mesmer..who was sleeping and didn’t see a flashy dwarf with fire armor walking up the ramp …what kind of evidence is this?
Elementalist Burst combo – You can chain many instant cast abilities together and affectively do what any dagger thief does and bring someone from 100-0 in split seconds, but as an elementalist you bring so much more to a team than a dagger thief. Arcane spells are to blame in my opinion. Weaken arcane spell damage drastically (damage halved or a little more) but give them some kind of utility. Say… make elemental surge base line? Just reduce the burning to 3 seconds. 5 seconds would be too strong. And maybe make air spells 2 seconds of weakness because so much access to blinds is also pretty crazy. Yeah just tone down the base line elemental surge and all is well.
As someone who has played 4 different classes in the last month trying to find one that worked with my team (eventually siding with running s/d ele)I do think after the fresh air buff that instant cast eles are strong. I would hold off on any notions of broken though. It may come across as a bit bias seeing as I do play the class but there are A LOT of hard counters that exist for it at the moment. While a full air arcane combo can instant cast for backstab-ish damage you’re not doing it from stealth and the CD on it is much higher. I personally have not been running double arcane as you have been for quite some time and we also don’t run a thief at the moment (so no gibs from stealth) so this all could be part of the reasons we have differing opinions on the matter. I think arcane wave is in a good spot and when run alone is strong, but not broken IMO. Maybe it is the fact that when you run 2 arcanes it becomes over the top? In that case wouldn’t it be better to see arcane blast repurposed a bit rather than nerfing both to not hurt builds that don’t run double arcane? Nerfing it in the way you suggest essentially means that in order to achive solid burst still you are forced to then run both where there is an option at the moment. Again, just change blast to have some more utility IMO. Some more discussion here would be nice.
Well elementalist don’t need fresh air to instagib people in a full instant cast combo. I use divinity runes with 20 air 20 water 30 arcana and do it quite often. Switch out divinity for scholar and you can 1 shot guardians and rangers with just a little bit of help, fresh air is definitely not needed and in my opinion is still not strong enough to drop my regular build. That’s a different topic though.
Good posts though siric thanks for the insight very constructive!
“The arcane skills aren’t decent when used in isolation. No one runs arcane blast or wave alone.” Sry I suck at figuring out how to quote in an edit. Anyways.
Actually running wave with flash/mist form is definitely viable. A little less burst but mist form is the difference between getting a stomp or rez or not.
Your entire thread is based on team-play experiences and your solutions would clearly benefit a team, the changes you suggest would ruin the fun for many on all different formats GW2 has to offer.
Just to make all those thiefs that posted here feel pathetic showing the truth of this OP class:
as much as i dont like thieves, this video shows great gameplay. the thief has talent and beat his opponents with skill.
What are you on about? What kind of skills do you need to spamm flanking strike?
-3,3,3,3,3,3-2,2,2,33…forever
There are just “few” dozen s/d thieves out there and accordingly to your comment, they’re all highly skilled and the rest obviously suck.
It’s like having a build where I can spamm burning retreat every 1.5s, if I could do that not even 10 of you would be able to touch me…
Anyway as suggestion to the OP:
- tPvP>hotjoin therefore Anet won’t balance s/d thieves in hotjoin
-In tPvP they can’t eveade through aoe coming from different sources, hence they die easily
-You need to create ground zero around you, it’s possible to do it with any profession
(edited by Arheundel.6451)
Its best map ever. The most fun, the most dynamic. And cc rarely instagib me, since you know you can mitigrate it with stability, dodges, counter cc …. more often i dodge roll or jump myself into abyss rather than someone cc me into it. Only bad thing i have to say about it is that premades are more stronger vs randoms than any other map. So yeah after they separate those its win/win. Oh yeah and they could make canon dodgable.
And yeah all ppl here that whine thinks they are so pro 1v1, knowing their class blabla. But the true skill beside that is knowing your environment and using it to your advantage (and ofc adapting your build). I also play many classes and cant say any of those doesnt have a role in this map. So yeah, just l2p and cry less.
Please dont remove the best pvp map ever created!
Please almighty pro tell us poor nabs how the kitten dodge an invisible engy/thief with pull/knockback, pls tell us what profession outside guardian and maybe warrior can go through the 8 knockbacks that engy have on their lame CC build..on the smallest area possible.
We don’t need a freaking degree and neither we need the likes of you to tell us how to position ourselves on the map, it’s no rocket science! But professions like engy and necro got kitten load of CC with which they can control a medium/large area at will..so cut the crap boss!