Given the kitten CD and the non-outstanding dmg ( with average crit dmg 30-40% ) I believe it’s not unreasonable to ask for a bigger fire angle, as it stands now you need to literally sit on the opponent to have any chance to land it, also you need to stay face to face with him.
So d/p thief burst is a good example of burst..and let me see what would be the counterplay?
-random aoe on my feet?
-sit inside the aoe blind field?
-random back dodge?As thieves in this game can renew stealth ..while stealthed I’m interested in knowing your idea of counterplay, I found my own way…but maybe you can share your knowledge with the rest of us.
So you want to have an ele with 900 range sustained dmg weapon and the reason being?
So far you must have been the first guy who ever complained about ele focus and the reason is they can counter your build while you try to pew pew from distance with shortbow and they can burst from distance.
Once removed the burst, you’d have nothing more to fear from a ranged ele, so you’d be free to pew pew with your trusted shortbow, spamming cluster bomb? disabling shot?…as the ele become weaker and weaker, you’ll then proceed to jump on them with s/d set.
Now having nothing to fear from the ele in terms of dmg ..you feel confident..but oops the ele use obsidian flesh , ruining your day……quickly you run to the forum to complain : " ele defense on focus is OP ".
You see @Mrbig…you and @Lordrosicky play a single class and single build, pretty much you’ll come to the forum every time you get beaten.
-warrior stun lock…as they CC you at mele range
-spirit rangers …as they condi bomb you at mele range
- s/d ele…as they much harder to counter compared to d/d eles, with s/d you can teleport in and out against d/d eles making the fight one -sided in your favour.Maybe you should just adapt your build and tactics….
Since when backastab is a burst ? thief burst is no longer good, eles do it 10 times better and so do mesmers.
Backstab is nothing more than a hard hitting skill like eviscerate.
Counter? simple
Dodge away, D/P thieves are slow. Blocks. Protection. CC near you.
And lol wtf i never complained about S/F eles, i just said they’re strong and that eles complain too much.
I play ALL classes otherwise i would never understand this game mechanics and it’s not about what beats me and what not, it’s about “what takes skill and what takes not”.
All meta builds now can be effective by spamming, flatting out the difference between a good player and an average one.
I consider myself a very good thief, yet i have to struggle against spirit rangers spamming 1, against necros spamming AoE condies everywhere when a single grasping hands with burning proc will eat about half of my hp etc etc.
I still win them, but i have to UNNATURALLY struggle against them, and it’s ridicolous.
Even my thief is ridicolous, i feel bad for the mesmer-ele when they get me in their burst combo and i simply port 1200 range away because i used inf strike which has no range requirments.
I want cheese to disappear from the game. And accept it or not, insta burst is cheese.
I repeat : d/p thieves can re-stealth while stealthed so you block what? got no aegis, use protection and CC when? and dodge in which direction?
Basically I’m forced to do random actions hoping to catch off guard an invisible enemy that can remain invisible like forever…why this is not part of your “cheese” I dunno, if we expand the argument to WvWvW, there it is full of d/p thieves with shadow refuge, basically 24/7 stealth users…isn’t this cheese?
Sure you want to remove all “cheese” from the game?
Let’s start :
-clones
-stealth
-turrets
-spirits
-asura
-initiative mechanic
-perma CC
…and more and more
Is there cheese in this game? Yeah you’re correct, everywhere you turn there is a cheesy mechanic… but now if you want to change this game in the MMO version of Eve Online then we need to remove ALL CHEESE from all professions, including yours, then we need to go back to the drawing board and start anew with all professions.
And how would you differentiate one profession from the other?
You can’t possibly have 8 professions dealing the same amount of dmg, or that have the same defense level or support level because there would no point in having 8 professions then
Ill start.
1. S/d
2. 0/30/0/10/30
3. Learn the burst combos
4. Practice the burst combos a lot
5. understand the class
6. Play safe
7. Stay back doing ranged harass until their is a proper opening
8. Go in using a massive burst combo and leave.
9. Ride the lightning and Lightning flash are better positioning and defensive spells then offense spells
10. Know your classes limit
11. Stay out of cleave
12 When you see a downed player that is the perfect opportunity to burst because their will be tons of people trying to stomp/rez said person.
13. PRACTICE
Can you pls stop making a fool out of you?
You’ve just described the way to play a burst role …in pretty much every MMO out there, you really believe to be super smart don’t you?
The whole reason complain and make lists like these and complain and qq is because they care about the game. If they didn’t care about want the game to get better they would just quit.
I agree with your list on everything but the engi healing turret.
This game has amazing potential. This game can become esports or extremely popular but the way anet is taking it. This game will dead in another year unless anet does some sweeping changes.
You’re the last person who should talk..or even dare to say of caring about the game.
Somebody who talk like this : Noob! l2p scrub! uninstall, the class too hard for you! etc etc
You, @lordrosicky and @Mrbig do not care about the game, you’re just people with an over inflated ego.
Lol..what are you on about?
The ele has always been about air insta burst, go play GW1 and educate yourself.
With : invoke – lightning surge – etc etc I was doing the same I’m doing in GW2, the dmg has already been nerfed on arcane skills ( by 22% ) but you were so taken by your blind hatred for eles to even realize that..go check the latest ninja nerf from Anet…seriously…so sadit’s not about nerfs.
It shouldn’t even exist.
Like S/D thief spamming.
Necro spamming.
Ranger spamming.
War stunlocks.And such.
Again, i would be again happy if we could just go back to “god mode” eles meta, at least that meta was skilled and the only class out of balance was the ele.
I’ve adapted..starting using s/f ele, suddenly I start winning against warriors, rangers and necros ( to a lesser degree ), and s/d thieves I can fight them even using d/d ele.
I simply don’t get it, we’ve been “trained” in instant mechanic since GW1, there I was playing mesmer and interrupting 1/2s cast skills..using prediction, that’s your counterplay, in GW1 my air ele used to kill any opponent with 2 skills..just 2 skills, this shows me that Anet got no intention to remove instant burst .Burst= instant
Burst /= hit harder
And Anet already stated in the past that while burst must not be over the top, it is also necessary to the game1/2 cast time is enough to spot a burst.
0 cast time is not ( air burst)
D/P thief is a good example of right burst. Mesmer is a good example of right burst. 100 blades is a good example of burst.
instant cast burst is not. NOPE.
As I said plenty of times, i know ele is not that good currently, if the issue is sustained damage than fix it, rearrange skills, make it like the warrior, do whatever you want, but INSTANT BURST no, no NOPE.
Warriors are mostly fine, the only issue is skull crack which, guess what, IS INSANT.
Super powerful insta skills are bad. Skull crack is bad, Air burst is bad.
Mug was a good example of an instant skill : long CD, good effect ( 3-4k damage as a full glass cannon, 2.5-3k damage on sustained DPS builds).
You know that with fresh air you basicaly have old mug ( that one critting for 4k+) every 5 secs, do you ?
So d/p thief burst is a good example of burst..and let me see what would be the counterplay?
-random aoe on my feet?
-sit inside the aoe blind field?
-random back dodge?
As thieves in this game can renew stealth ..while stealthed I’m interested in knowing your idea of counterplay, I found my own way…but maybe you can share your knowledge with the rest of us.
So you want to have an ele with 900 range sustained dmg weapon and the reason being?
So far you must have been the first guy who ever complained about ele focus and the reason is they can counter your build while you try to pew pew from distance with shortbow and they can burst from distance.
Once removed the burst, you’d have nothing more to fear from a ranged ele, so you’d be free to pew pew with your trusted shortbow, spamming cluster bomb? disabling shot?…as the ele become weaker and weaker, you’ll then proceed to jump on them with s/d set.
Now having nothing to fear from the ele in terms of dmg ..you feel confident..but oops the ele use obsidian flesh , ruining your day……quickly you run to the forum to complain : " ele defense on focus is OP ".
You see @Mrbig…you and @Lordrosicky play a single class and single build, pretty much you’ll come to the forum every time you get beaten.
-warrior stun lock…as they CC you at mele range
-spirit rangers …as they condi bomb you at mele range
- s/d ele…as they much harder to counter compared to d/d eles, with s/d you can teleport in and out against d/d eles making the fight one -sided in your favour.
Maybe you should just adapt your build and tactics….
Lol..what are you on about?
The ele has always been about air insta burst, go play GW1 and educate yourself.
With : invoke – lightning surge – etc etc I was doing the same I’m doing in GW2, the dmg has already been nerfed on arcane skills ( by 22% ) but you were so taken by your blind hatred for eles to even realize that..go check the latest ninja nerf from Anet…seriously…so sadit’s not about nerfs.
It shouldn’t even exist.
Like S/D thief spamming.
Necro spamming.
Ranger spamming.
War stunlocks.And such.
Again, i would be again happy if we could just go back to “god mode” eles meta, at least that meta was skilled and the only class out of balance was the ele.
I’ve adapted..starting using s/f ele, suddenly I start winning against warriors, rangers and necros ( to a lesser degree ), and s/d thieves I can fight them even using d/d ele.
I simply don’t get it, we’ve been “trained” in instant mechanic since GW1, there I was playing mesmer and interrupting 1/2s cast skills..using prediction, that’s your counterplay, in GW1 my air ele used to kill any opponent with 2 skills..just 2 skills, this shows me that Anet got no intention to remove instant burst .
Burst= instant
Burst /= hit harder
And Anet already stated in the past that while burst must not be over the top, it is also necessary to the game
Something should be done with it to make it more helpful. They should remove fire aura cooldown or decrease it to 0.5. The aura is helpful but it can not be stacked and it is very situational.
not really situational, I use it to stack might quickly while putting pressure on enemy, it works really
Lol..what are you on about?
The ele has always been about air insta burst, go play GW1 and educate yourself.
With : invoke – lightning surge – etc etc I was doing the same I’m doing in GW2, the dmg has already been nerfed on arcane skills ( by 22% ) but you were so taken by your blind hatred for eles to even realize that..go check the latest ninja nerf from Anet…seriously…so sad
(edited by Arheundel.6451)
@Mrbig
Imho the only proffs that are fine are mesmers, engies ( without auto response) and D/* eles.
Basically all specs you can beat when used by your average players ( 9 out of 10 ), you hate s/d eles because they can rip you another while you use s/d thief build…heard that, seen that and been that, nothing new, just a typical whine..moving along
edit: you hate even more s/f eles because skilled ones can rip you another even larger compared to s/d eles… GG.
When you used to play d/d thieves ..d/d eles were not “fine” am I right?
(edited by Arheundel.6451)
Also, Frost Aura >> Fire Aura (by like a million).
A few extra might stacks might help too. 1 Might stack is nothing, 3 per hit and now you better make sure you kill that ele of they are coming back with a vengeance. Especially on a condi build, it could be some pretty potent defense.
I like this idea of 3 stacks per hit……I’d be happy just with that little change.
3 stacks for hit would be massively OP, they way I’ve started using fire shield is..to sit on top of flame wall and use phoenix when an enemy get close , in no time I get up to 16 stacks of might as the enemy keep hitting me, I’m using a s/d burst build so you can imagine the dmg I do ( PvP ), I then use freezing gust+comet to stop any healing attempt, or gale to interrupt them should daze fail
oh i not only defend spirit ranger,
i defend the condi necro, cc warriro, spirit ranger, s/d thief, shatter mesmer, s/d ele, bunker guardian and bomb engi,
because all of them are lame and op, so the game should be ok?and whats most lame on spirit ranger?
you can lose and win against every other professionyou guys speak about
cc warrior = lame
s/d thief = lame
spirit ranger = lame
bunker guardian = lame
condi necro = lameyou just forget the
shatter mes burst = lame, because mes is for sure viable atm
ele burst = lame, also viable classso everything other profession ppls not play is lame. looks like we have a good balance.
if you not like your own meta anymore, you need to leave.
reason for this meta is your much forum posting like this, now you have your meta guys, anet was listen much to you.and why i should care to helseth?
is guys like helseth your every time speaking truth gods?
this is also just a player and we have win vs him in past also,
same for team paradigm and car crash before they went to pax.
so i dont have to care when such players dont like the meta.
im fine with the old meta and the actual meta.
i will be also fine with the future meta, because i like the game mechanic.my problem is just, i hate this whine topics so much.
and this one is whine topic number 4.
this guy spam them like hell with the hope anet listen to the guys who cry most loadand the points on his first post are crap srsly…
i only agree on asuras, but also this is a not must have.
and how much ranger hate i can read on this points is just interesting…
Glad somebody else realized it.
Everybody is good at shouting “nerf nerf” @Lordrosicky..but.it takes more ability and courage to propose solutions, that’s something you don’t seem capable of doing.
If you can’t suggest any solution it means that all you want are changes which would benefit you more than everybody else.
Can you even predict what would happen if any of your “nerfs” would be implemented?….I think not, but definitely you know what will be the immediate benefits for you..convenient.
@Lordrosicky….legendary whiner status achieved
People will sing of your “victories” for years to come on every MMO forum out there…superb
PvE players should be treated like the PvP players…7-8 months wait to receive any change, if it’d be so you wouldn’t see these kind of threads
Saw this in a thread awhile back.
+1000000000000…………..OMFG STILL GOING…………………..INFINITY………..
My turn:
[img]http://imgflip.com/i/3rjmw[/img]
I am glad no one has completely flamed you yet, but that being said capricorn sucks. Underwater combat sucks. Skyhammer has too many issues to be considered competitive. And you want more? no. absolutly not. Darnis is correct if they put those 2 team arena or capricorn in solo q pvp would completely and finally die.
Water combat along with new secondary mechanics would greatly help against necro/warriors and spirit ranger, would these 3 fare equally good in a Capricor similar map with cannons and sharks?Think about it.
Water combat would introduce that layer of utter kitten that this game so desperately needs to finally Kill off the remaining PVP population
Fix’d that for you.
Why would it be so?
Don’t people play PvP to find a challenge and have fun ?
Water combat would do exactly that, it would bring a challenge to the scene, you can feel comfortable knowing to be kitten on land..now you’d need to be good also in water .
Introduction of secondary mechanics would even benefit deathmatch lovers as the number of 1vs1 would drastically increase.
It would be generally better for the game if holding 2 cap point would stop being the main winning strategy
I presume after the current meta people may be sick tired of AI controlled minions cluttering their screen, so your disregard for my suggestion is understandable.
Not being a game designer I’ve just used that little game fantasy I have, I know the Devs would come up with something better.
Water combat may be indeed not complete, but from my understanding the majority of people don’t like water combat because it pushes them out of their comfort zone, after all they practiced their combo on the golems…..land golems., it looks to me that the majority of PvP players is against harder content like secondary mechanics scattered around the map, but correct me if I’m wrong.
Being a GW1 GvG player my idea of fun is 2 teams using all their wit to create several winning tactics : faints, flag runners, lord rush, split, spike train etc etc….
In GW2 all you see is 2 teams trying to hold 2 cap pts max at all time , sometimes you see a brawl happening at the middle point..that’s it.
Water combat would introduce that layer of difficulty that PvP in this game so desperately needs
Is this satire?
It’s not.
It’s true that Pvp needs balance, but it also needs to be more fun to play and watch, a healthy meta it’s not all you need to have a fun game and let’s be honest any meta is just a transition period, the condi meta end and another type of meta start , with it another cycle of whining threads.
If at the very least we make PvP more fun to play…things would look brightier
Capricorn and Skyhammer aren’t really interesting to watch or play.
Before map design even comes into the equation Capricorn flopped because an aspect of combat that the map wants to support isn’t really even finished. Can’t base a map on unfinished combat that’s just weird.If you want a map people can watch it is Foefire.
Yes, water combat is not perfectly balanced..but neither is the one on land, it’s still better to maintain some degree of water combat rather than wait for its supposed perfect balance ( never seen a game with perfect balance, somebody will always complain about something ) at which point people will complaing even harder, not being used to it.
Furthermore outside the blatantly broken ranger self-ress and thief realistic perma dodge ( not like the fabled perma dodge s/d build ), the water combat is rather ok in my opinion
As it stands now even FoeFire promote stationary bunkering at graveyard, it is possible to win completely ignoring the lord kill mechanic and even at that point the end result of the match may not even change.
Won’t you prefer to have something more interactive that force players to decisions?
It shouldn’t be something that you can have a chance to ignore.
I have given suggestions that would eliminate any possibility of lazy bunkering, no more sitting on a point while I go take a coffie, don’t you agree?
The devs need to start introduce more maps like Skyhammer and Capricorn.
It was a grave mistake not to introduce similar maps , it’s time to push people out of their little comfort zone by adding more water combat and objectives that change the priority list for a team ( hold 2 pts = win )
It was another mistake to reduce the number of sharks in Capricorn, the benefits of this map is that it’s not easy to hold 2 cap pts at any given time and similar thing could be said for Skyhammer thx to falling panels and the huge dmg cannon.
Basically any map that promote lazy playing ( people sitting on a point with their little spirits and the thumb up…) should be reworked.
-Kylo:
It should be harder to destroy the enemy treb, significantly harder, also the treb should be faster to rotate with ofc less dmg
-Spirit Watch:
Introduce special buffs to each shrine, add a personalized skill bar for the Orb runner ( sprint – PBaoe 2s stun – a third and final skill)
-Forest :
Each boss could send 2-3 minions to the closest cap point, EX Svanir could send 3 sons of Svanir to Henge and try to neutralize it?, Chieftain send 3 Jotun to mine?
Then you could add a fire spitting gargoyle head on Keep that a player need to cap for his team and can be neutralized by the opposite team, this fire spitting trap would attack the cap point on keep on interval , damaging any enemy player close to it
-Legacy:
A 3 chaar patrol attack anybody on waterfall? a 3 human patrol atatcking quarry?
The latest addition in PvE shows how the Devs trust the players in complete hard tasks, similarly the Devs should start treating players in PvP accordingly, have not fear to promote water combat and add additional hazards to each map.
I’m an ele, got pushed off the platform countless times , but I adapted, better positioning and different build. Finally we had a map were to hold 2 cap pts was not the end of all..not at all. The dmg from the hammer was fine, the all point of it is to force you out the point….or get killed by it, why else I would try to 1vs2 all match trying to take control of the cannon?
In Capricorn, we had the sharks that served as deterrent to any enemy foolish enough to enter inside the water, with fewer of them it doesn’t really make much of a difference, now they’re more than a nuisance than an actual threat..and that’s wrong
In order to attract more players, PvP need yes more balance but also needs to be more fun to watch and play , more easy does not translate to more fun..definetely not, you must have noticed this by now , look at the revamped Sunless dragon, look how many people enjoy the harder content…I’d like to receive the same treatment in PvP
more greatswords…kittenit
Use soldier amulet 0/20/0/20/30 s/d with divinity runes for good burst on squishies and still decent dmg on more tanky targets , more survivability, more room for errors
@Blinx balanced s/d build
http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-k34;2B2-V0z47NFZ0;9;5J-JT;159;248-45AXJ;171-F-03F-036Bg
Truth of the matter is; eles do are in a much worse state than people want to admit, since they are still scarred by the old D/D and they simply hate us (despite most of us not ever liked nor played that specc) leaving people who have always played staff and S/F on the dust.
The reasons for this hate..have never been clarified.
All I ever read was : " can’t kill ele too much healing..too annoying to fight", basically the old ele was an overly effective bunker and nothing else, the Devs in their attempt to bring down the bunker spec they nerfed everything else along the road leading the ele to state it is in now.
Eles had a single effective bunker build and they nerfed it, that bunker build was created out of necessity from the ele community as the basic ele was already considered UP, as I explained in other thread the design concept of the ele is flawed and completely illogical.
Ele is “jack of all trades..but master of none”, still the devs in their blind attempt to please the pre-release nerf cries , decided to add an inherent low base survivability and poof, the ele on top of being designed to be mediocre at everything it now has the lowest base survivability.
The only thing left was to invest as much as possible in survival traits, now that aspect of the ele has been nerfed , there is nothing left now to compensate for the innate low survivability which is clearly below medium level, therefore the ele is even in a worst state compared to Sept 2012.
The base survivability must be brought up:
1) Reduce CD on attunements
2) Increase base HP or reduce CD of water healing skills ( cleansing wave at 25s CD )
and reduce the nerf on healing trait ( healing ripple -EA cleansing water ) from 50% to 25%
Whatever you’re taking….it’s extremely bad quality, I suggest you to change “provider” before you start seeing flying pigs and talking donkeys :-)
[b]
Sure instant skills are terrible design..but the game is plenty of them and no ele can kill you by uusing the few available to him, whichever profession you play I’m sure there is something unfun about it ( perma stealth ? CC spamm?, clones spamm? )but learning to adapt I believe is more constructive than asking for nerfs on everything you don’t like isn’kittenStill it is terrible design.
Like it’s terrible design instantly teleporting away with no cost involved (inf strike) Perma CCs, AI spam and i would argue even perma stealth, altough we know it’s not effective for this game type.
As i said, if the ele is suffering sustained damage issues, then buff it, like they did with the war. If not bring other professions down.
But air/arcane burst allows no counterplay, you can do it even while dodging, the only way to evade it is BY RANDOM DODGING or by foretelling ( lolwut).
Be realistic.
Eles are not in a great spot currently, yet if they nerf warriors and condi spam in general, they’ll be top class again and everybody will complain about instant burst.
As soon as they start running with S/F, they’ll go insta shotting any class with all immunities possible ( in EU eles already started running it when i was still playing, i guess all eles are already S/F and i’m wondering what will happen when aNet will buff focus like they said they woul).
Fresh air builds need to go, along with all the other cheese in this game.
We were in a much better place months ago, at least the only spammy class was the bunker ele.
This is the main problem of th Ele and that’s why I denounced the GW2 ele as a failed design concept, the arrogance and stubborness of the devs is mindblowing.
They first say :" GW2 is a team based game" and they then made the ele " The ele can do a little of everything..but nothing better than the others – @ Karl ".
I mean omfg in a team based game , every profession got a specific role so why should you take a profession that does nothing better than the others?
Here a small summary of Anet unprofessionality:
-September 2012-
Ele can bunker , arguably better than a guardian? – Nerf them, we can’t have the ele perform the bunker role better than guardian
-Jan – Apr 2013
Ele can roam, arguably better than thief? – Nerf them, we can’t have the ele perform the roamer role better than thief
-Oct – ?2013
Ele can burst, arguably better than mesmer?………You see the trend now ?
And that’s why the GW2 ele is a failed design concept, no allowed to perform any role better than others…at leats up to now where apparently ele has been declared the new " best" support class ..and this until the time some other profession doesn’t start to complain on how ele have replaced them..sad
Lol ele isn’t for you two i see.
Definetely I didn’t sign to be a poor man substitute of the d/d thief , by having no stealth, no meaningful escapes and no cheesy easy burst combo.
I made the ele thinking I’d play a similar version of the GW1, an improved version that’s it..after all warrior-thieves-necros-mesmers get to enjoy an improved version of their favourite profession from GW1…only in the ele case we get a worst version.
Then yes you’re correct, the GW2 ele as it stands now it’s not for me, people like your friend may enjoy the whole the “all or nothing” playstyle..but the majority of us doesn’t like the current ele.
I play videogames for fun ..not for personal approval from an unknown person over the internet, I don’t care about being considered pro , noob or whatever , I only want to play a 4 elements based profession like I did in GW1 and not get frustated over it..is that too much to ask?
s/d fresh air ele does the best burst in the game. The only issue with ele is how you have to constantly swap attunes/ no stay in attune build diversity and the attacks on focus and staff. Thats really it. Eles aren’t in that bad of the place its just how the meta is.
actually no, the best burst is still held for thieves agaisnt moving targets and warriors for CC’ed targets. And before you say that “eles burst is AoE” I remind you that 2 of the main hitting point of that build are single targetted, lighting and arcane missile. Damage aside, the fact that to be able to land all that you need incredible amount of setting up could be offset if it wasnt that you have to sacrifice 2 utilities in order to attain the damage that every other profession is already given in their weapon, leaving no room for defense nor utility for the team. Something that neither thieves, mesmers, warriors or necros have to think about given how their survavility is not tied to kamikaze tactics and how they bring several buffs as well as utility skills on top of their weapon skills.
And yes, I agree that staff need faster auto attack, but first the unresponsiveness of the weapon has to be addressed. As well as the lack of damage outside fire attunement, the inherent problem with gust which failed even against almost standing targets, long CDs and the fact that you have to be constantly switching attunements instead of just when actually needed in order to attain something all “mindless professions” (as many say) do without giving it much thought or even trying.
hahahahhaa. No thieves and stun warriors do not match the burst of a s/d ele. Trust me on this. The only set up it needs is good positioning. I may be biased because i play with an extremely good ele. I can understand if its hard for you.
So you don’t play ele…that’s explain everything..
Your friend plays with a team it seems, he’s a got a whole team to cover for him once he blows all his dps skills including his 2 arcane utilties , as he’ll use lightning flash at 100%, your friend goes around with 0 stun breakers.
Having somebody to peel off for you it’s not something everybody playing ele enjoy atm, that s/d burst build is extremely team dependant..that’s why it doesn’t compare to CC warrior and s/d thief, these two don’t need a whole team to cover their backs.
Again @Fortus is 100% correct, s/d ele burst is far from being the best in the game, your friend can come at me while using a medium toughness build ( 1.5k toughness ) and all his rotation including double arcane will maybe eat 30% of my HP, with the same level of toughness I can receive over 7k dmg from a single backstab or 12k dmg Izerker-duellist done at 1200-900 range and instant..no positioning required…no complicated combo….just a couple of buttons against the macro worthy s/d ele burst.
You @Derp have never seen a s/d ele against a shatter mesmer, you should go and watch the CC vs TP match, @Mogwow get flattened by @Helseth in 0.5-1s, he get destroyed by the s/d thief..all @Mogwow does is receive stealth from @Lady nag nag and earthquake-lightning flash- double arcane..and then “reposition” himself
I really hope to receive an official response to my request.
I main an ele, played it since launch both in PvE and PvP, now because of balance changes I’m not interested to discuss here I’ve lost all interest in the profession..and now the problem starts.
I’m a professional ( trainee ele engineer) and can’t play for more than maybe 12 hours a week, I really like the game and the no monthly fee formula so I’d really love to continue..but I don’t like ele anymore.
I would love to have the opportunity to transfer all my soulbound items ( weapons/armors ) to another fresh character, I’d pay with real money ( £60-70…£100?), are there any plans to introduce this kind of service?
Definetely got no time to start another character: new ascended weapon – attend guild raids for ascended accessory ( Tuesday guild bounty at 5.30 pm? not gonna happen anymore), dungeon armors where I need to wait hours to find a group ( honour of the wave armor took me 1 month even using gw2lfg ).
At the very least if all this is not possible I’d like to hear about my options
Well, specialize in 1-2 attunements, but have amazing traits like this.
Drastically Improves the Fire Attunement, completely locks out Air.
Drastically Improves the Water Attunement, completely locks out Earth.
Drastically Improves the Air Attunement, completely locks out Fire.
Drastically Improves the Earth Attunement, completely locks out Water.Earth should be focused on Condition Damage/Reducing Damage. (Bleeding Damage/Confusion Damage/Protection.)
Water should be focused on Power Damage/Healing. (Vulnerability/Weaknesss/Power Damage/Healing.)
Fire should be Condition Damage/Condition Removal and Control. (Burning, Power, Condition Control. (Remove conditions/cure for each one removed.).
Air Should be Burst/Critical Damage/Daze and Crowd Control.
This way you can have 1 offensive/1 defensive option.
+1
Don’t ask for class improvements if you don’t want your class being dumped down, because they are not going to improve the classes abilities when you have access to all of them at once. It would mean casual players would be /decent/ while really good players who can manage all four become /god-mode/.
You can’t ask for improvements when you already have complexity. Something has to dump, and I’m right, most eles actually do only play 2 attunements, because they can’t manage the class very well.
Don’t ask for class improvement when you have complexity? You realize that those two things are completely un-connected. What you’re saying makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. There was a point when eles were absolute top tier. They are now absolute bottom tier. You don’t have to completely change the nature of the class to find a middle ground. The complexity is fine how it is, and casual players who don’t like the complexity should not be playing this class. That’s really all there is to it.
There is a reason for that, because of having 20 abilities many of them could miss and just not care, you had more ways to do the same thing then any other class.
They brought that down all around and now they are bad.
They should limit it to 10 abilities like the other classes and then they can improve it.
Basically you’re suggesting to turn ele from failed design to something actually worth playing.
For that I’ve been called off numerous times and simply ignored..so gl, I’m genuinely surprised that somebody else outside the top players from GW1 ( in the beginning before release ) realize the inherent problems with the ele : having 20 skills = state of constant nerfing and irrelevant buffs
The flawed design of the ele was clear to quite few press people way back in March 2012 after the first exposition to the public, there was too much on the ele at any given time and Anet unprofessionaly turned to nerf everything on this profession and include numerous filler skills on weapon sets..that only now are being slowly ( but always partially) improved.
It may be indeed fun to play but the profession is not 100% efficient, I still remember that time when I was talking with @Zoose, I told him that ele wasn’t really efficient and his answer was : " yeah I know but I like the concept so I can make it work for me", I believe that’s the answer you will get from many die hard gw2 ele fans, but personally being a gw1 ele fan I’d like to have something akin to the old version : 100% efficiency , which equal to 100% fun for me.
To all the people who suggest to change profession!
I agree with you..but I can’t play for more than 10 hours a week and ele is the profession I PvE also, completed all map and story line, few nice weapon/armor skins ( soulbound ).
I can’t/won’t bother with another profession from scratch, I agree with those who want the ele to remain in the current state of complexity, ‘cause it means something to kill another player while using an ele but at the same time I shouldn’t be forced to perform complicated combos at all times where I die at the first error, furthermore the end result is close to what other professions can achieve with far less workload.
It appears as ele has been unofficially declared hard core mode by Anet, some people enjoy hardcore..but I never played hard core in any game so what if I like the idea of playing with elements and don’t like the gw2 ele?
In the past I suggested to revert the GW2 ele to the old version, a single element as main and a second element as secondary weapon set like the GW1 ele…I’m sure many would prefer this version rather than the “jack all trades..master of none” GW2 ele
S/D Burst
Long post the one above, few will read it and those few will possibly realize the stupidity of those nerfs on the ele as they were brought in along with huge buff to other profession.
Gladly the GW2 community seems to be improving, it is less prone to blindly follow famous QQ mobsters with their desperate attempt to nerf to the ground everything except their profession…because these QQ mobster do indeed play a single profession, their knowledge of other professions is limited to GW2 wiki and few youtube videos, nothing to seriously take in consideration.
A year ago I used to complain a lot aobut thieves and mesmers..then I started playing them and realized how unrealistic are the complaints of some individuals, even the spirit ranger, it’s definetely not as OP as those same individuals would like you to think.
Now to the s/d burst ele, I feel the need to inform the community with actual numbers:
- Fresh air trait has done nothing to bring the potential ele burst to “OP” level as some would like you to think and this is why:
A 0/20/0/20/30 ele can access the air minor trait and lightning strike every 9-10s and do great dmg if using both arcane skills ( one visible projectile that can miss and a PBaoe that want the ele in mele range )
A 0/30/0/20/20 ele can access the air burst every 5s because of ICD on fresh air and on air 2 lightning strike, the air minor trait does max 1k on medium toughness targets ( 1.4k -1.5k ) and 2k+ dmg on ZERKER amulet users and does not require ICD, therefore all in all a fresh air ele can cut by kitten on the frequency of use of this minor trait, ideally increasing the total dmg done by 1-2k dmg
If you have followed the math so far, you must have realized how little this fresh air trait bring to the table, it was implemented by the Devs to help eles in reducing their dependancy on 30 Arcana…an object partially achieved.
Since August 2012 the scepter has received 0 dmg buff and all of sudden the scepter is OP because of a mere 4s less on the use of a minor trait dealing 1k dmg?
A double arcane ele has got 0 stun breakers and the CD on these skills is 16-20s on arcane blast and 24-30s on arcane wave, they each one deal around 1.5k dmg on medium toughness targets ( 1.4k -1.5k).
A s/d ele needs to chain : earthquake-Lightning flash- air burst – phoenix- both arcane skill, a 6 skills rotation that require perfect positioning and timing ( you miss…you die most times).
Do you need counterplay?…Well you can use your fantasy, the same I use against invisible thieves bursting for 7k dmg from stealth ( with me sitting on 1500 toughness), 1200 range I zerker mesmers ( 7k dmg instant dmg + cripple), signet of spite burst necros and more.
Sure instant skills are terrible design..but the game is plenty of them and no ele can kill you by uusing the few available to him, whichever profession you play I’m sure there is something unfun about it ( perma stealth ? CC spamm?, clones spamm? )but learning to adapt I believe is more constructive than asking for nerfs on everything you don’t like isn’kitten
The problem with ele is similar to the warrior.
Warriors were always OP in WvW zergs and in PvE. there were horrible in PvP. So, ANET buffs warriors in PvP and now made them even more OP in WvW zergs (and even more so again when they buff shout heals) and in PvE.
For eles, they were OP everywhere for a period of time. So, they left the core of ele in WvW but nerfed ele hard in PvP. Now they are in the position that if they increase PvP, eles will be insanely OP in WvW again.
Ele is in this position because you guys shouted “OP OP!” ..but what was OP about ele?
First and foremost my definition of OP would be maybe my old ele build in GW1, where I would receive 0 dmg from any mele opponents at mele range ofc, even 3-4 warriors/sins was the same 0 dmg thx to weakness conditions and reduced dmg from weakened foes; all my attacks were 1s cast max and able to eat 50% of your HP every 10s ( lightning surge elite + lightning orb ) and I could outheal any necro/mesmer condition/hex or outlast any strip ench attempt as my ench were at 10s CD against 25s CD of strip ench skills.
For me was the norm to kill 2-3 people at time with my air ele in GW1, the only arguably challenges were pro mesmers rupt and earth eles….but even in GW1 I was easily killed by well combined spike ( strip ench + kd lock + burst )
Without doubt I would have remained silent if anybody would have called my ele OP and possibly agree with him , suggesting to increase the CD of a couple of skills.but GW2 is completely another matter.
Again I’ll take this opportunity to clarify a misconception or rather a lie that has been spreading for months, but that didn’t stop the Devs from using knee jerk reaction nerfs, I’m talking about the two variant of the infamous 0/10/0/30/30:
1) Valkirye ele = 14k HP + signet of restoration
-A balanced build able to outlast and burst down zerker build users with ease, months ago everybody was using a zerker amulet : 100b warrior, d/d thief and shatter mesmer.
It was months ago when everybody was still learning and professions like thief and warrior didn’t have the builds of today, now both go around with valkirye/soldier amulet dealing way more dmg than the old valkirye d/d ele ever did.
The regen warrior in W3 is more effective than the old healing troll d/d, whilestill being even more mobile , there is no burst instead the warrior here win by attrition..just like it was with d/d ele..still the ele was OP while having less mobility ( 15s CD rtl 1550 < GS warrior ) and less HP ( 15 k HP – 250 pts on cast healing signet VS 30 K HP – 420 pts for sec healing signet )
The question is now: Would the old d/d ele be OP against the current meta?…I strongly think not, so would have not be better to buff before the other professions rather than over nerf the ele and over buff other professions?
2) Cleric d/d ele = 13k HP +healing signet
- close to insignificant dmg, a pure bunker able to escape the point if losing but laking dmg to take them back and which case he’d simply become a worthless harasser while waiting for the d/d thief to bring actual burst
Now the the main complaint about the ele were:
-" too much healing…can’t kill..really boring to fight"
No kill from the ele..just very boring to fight, like all bunkers….was this really something requiring huge nerfs?
But the nerfs only damaged eles trying to use more balanced builds with less healing and actual dmg, the Devs simply hitted hard the ele survivability with the nerf hammer while increasing other professions survivability and dmg
Your ideas would/will kill this game even more.
..another Daecollo thread…
@Daecollo..stop spreading lies…
The ele forum is completely ignored by the devs, we’re not as lucky as warriors who have been crying since BW1, that’s like 15 months worth of cries
You want to see all the threads we made and got ignored by the Devs?..HERE have a laugh:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/elementalist/Suggestion-Elementalist-Refinements
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/elementalist/Tornado-Rework-idea
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/elementalist/New-talent-elite-idea/first#post2723778
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/elementalist/Make-A-Little-Boy-s-Dream-Come-True/first#post2716385
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/elementalist/Armor-of-Earth-Needs-Lower-Cooldown/first#post2716522
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/elementalist/Conjure-weapons-suggestions/first#post2708460
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/How-to-and-not-to-fix-the-Ele/first#post2721026
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/elementalist/Minor-Traits-suggestions/first#post2118356
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/elementalist/Let-s-talk-about-Fire-grab/first#post2001259
There are hundreds of “idea” threads which get ignored by the Devs and not even taken in consideration, now you should understand why people got fed up …
Where have you been? eles were gods months ago, my friend used to main it, now he doesn’t play it, because it’s not that awesome anymore.
and i know that you don’t play a single warrior from your list full of BS.
that one big river of Bullkitten you got there.
NO..where have you been?
Eles have never been awesome in the first place, just few trolls running a tank/healing build and RTL away when losing…WHAT IS AWESOME ABOUT THAT?
Eles were gods because the majority of “pro” warriors were dead fixed in using their one trick zerker build against a tank build..and you ended up losing always ..because ofc you had no kittening toughness compared to the 1900 toughness ele but you still complained nevertheless
I play warrior as well and I perfectly know how the axe autoattack on a soldier amulet warrior deal close to the dmg of a phoenix when using a zerker ele.
On the contrary of your friend who enjoyed trolling people in WvWvW with his d/d tank build ( not able to kill anything _) I’ve got friends who can show you how awesome was the warrior during the times the ele was considered a God, with their mace/hammer build…but again months ago all you’d find were 100b zerker heroes crying on how “UP” was the warrior ….GG
@Daecollo
Never said warriors complained on ele sub-forums..they did complain on the sPvP forum and past SOTG, it’d take time but I can locate the threads started by warriors with the exact quote :" eles are more tanky than warriors and can sustain more".
There is that other warrior @Zone, for months his signature was :
" Warriors will be viable when eles get nerfed"-
And you still say warriors never cried about eles?.
But the cherry on the cake is you telling me that whining never fixes anything..when you’re the one who started a dozen threads stating how UP the warrior was…but don’t worry really , eles have been “whining” for months, we’ll prob get nerfed again in few months time if it appears we can win any 1vs1 in less than 10m
Stop bringing a WvWvW/non-SPVP thread into the SPVP forums.
1) Maybe because it was the worst class in the game a few months ago?
2) You mean by buffing shouts, one of our unused builds? That won’t help the scary warriors most cry about.
Warriors counter is Blind/Poison/Burst damage, things many classes have.
3) They are adding more weapons to all classes soon, also since you can only have 2 weapons for most professions equipped why does it even matter?
Now move this to its proper forum.
Cry me a river @Daecollo!
The eles have been crying since the end of BWE1 and nobody at Anet has really cared , the class is so stupidly designed that everything is water/arcana or GTFO, ele players were forced in using tank build to avoid getting oneshotted by 100b warriors who had always the option to use high sustain build like : mace/shield + leech sigil or control hammer build ( don’t try to say no if not I post videos here of the mace/shield “unkillable” build and hammer control )
Despite all warrior used to cry : " QQ eles do the job of warriors" …HOW? tanks with no dmg suddenly become warriors? ..interesting ….but anyway eles got ofc nerfed on the only thing that kept them viable : tank build….
So now eles are forced to use a “burst or die” build while having 10k less HP and less room for errors compared to warriors ( frenzy+100b…cheese and easy , much easier than being forced in pressing 10 buttons at the right angle and distance with perfect timing).
But hey one trick pony build is considered viable and ok for the Devs..when on eles..but warriors were considered UP while using it, so they gave them the sustain of guardians and more dmg spread across the board ..while nerfing all possible threats for them…EPIC BALANCE.
- Thieves d/d can potentially oneshot zerker warriors…NERF
- Guardians can outlive burst from warriors…NERF
- Eles can kill warrior with attrition..NERF
- Necros can kill warriors with condition…NERF and ADD ANTI-CONDITIONS STANCE
- Engy can kite warriors quite well..NERF and ADD MORE GAP CLOSER
But pls @Daecollo go on and make another thread on how warriors suck in this game
(edited by Arheundel.6451)
1) You avoid being the target of nerfs over and over again
I could write a saga of your ignorance. Like seriously bro…
You can save yourself the burden to write any saga and go directly reading the patchs notes since August 2012, you can then compile a list of nerfs for guardian/ele and thief…compare them and see for yourself which profession will come out on top as the most nerfed..ty
1)Now that I think about it, the warrior as profession has only seen buffs since the end of Beta Weekend 2, sometimes they were small buffs that nobody paid attention to..but buffs nevertheless, a constant line of buffs that seems to never end.
2)This profession just keeps getting stronger and stronger, we’ve reached a point that this profession has absolutely zero counter, during the last SOTG the devs said that it was fine for mesmers to have conditions as a direct counter to their profession..but wasn’t condition supposed to be counter to warriors also?
Still that counter now has been effectively eliminated..only for the warrior while it remain for mesmer..interesting.
3)Despite having the larger number of weapon sets across all professions, the warrior is also the profession with the highest number of viable weapon, if we take a look at the current viable builds for warrior we can see that no weapon is left untouched and same can be said for the utilities
Apparently at Anet there is no need for “extensive testing” to buff the warrior , they get buffed every 3 weeks, in other profession cases we need over one year to see a single change.
Some skills on warrior get buffed without the need to create multiple threads, again the Devs don’t need “positive feedback” to buff the warrior…in some profession cases ( ele) you create over 20 “positive feedback” threads and you still get completely ignored.
Only thing I wonder now is…if there is anything left to buff on warriors
You sir, sound like a very bad elementalist.
Have you got anything to prove how bad I am…or are you simply trolling me?
I would have ignored you but…I don’t want the devs to suspect that having problems with ele is a L2p issue so..pls if you can prove how bad is @Keiji Sakuragi, I’d be obliged.
I don’t remember many people from this forum : @ Mrbig, @Diogosilva..they played with me few times, you can ask them how bad I am..I wasn’t trolling you. While the elementalist does have their own issues, I find it hard to believe and I quote “To play an ele is extremely intensive, you need to pay attention to basically anything..to avoid a quick death, no mistakes allowed, a single mistake and 3/4 of your HP are gone.”
If this is really the way you feel about elementalist, I find it hard to believe how much problems people usually have with elementalist to begin with. I don’t main an ele but i’ve clocked in a couple of hundred hours on them. Sure they require more micromangement but when i’m in WvW, I don’t really pay any extra attention compared to another class in order to kill people. I surely don’t think people find me any easier than another class. I think mesmers have the poorer end of the stick when it comes to paying attention requirements.
I can see where you come from then, but you should know that playing an ele in a PvP setting is entirely different than playing ele in WvWvW.
I play both instances and can easily point the main advantages of the PvE ele compared to PvP:
1) Increased base HP
2) No nerfs on the healing
3) Increased base stats
4) Enemies who don’t enjoy your same set up ( exotic+ )
With decreased healing and efficiency for some traits, whose nerfs only apply for PvP , the lowest base HP ( huge deal ) and lowest base dmg , less customability ..you should be able to see where all the complaints in PvP come from
yeah okay I guess I can live with that. Boon stealing is part of our sustain, through protection, regen etc., so putting a heal on that I could be okay with.
The problem is that two boons is too much against some classes, but barely enough against others. Most Guardians/Elementalists will easily shrug off 1 boon per LS, if you even land them 100% of the time given that they both have high vigor uptime.
In other cases, like Necro, Warrior, Ranger, you can easily steal fairly long boons from elites/utilities like Spectral Armor/Walk, Signet of Rage or Rampage as One, and I do feel myself that this isn’t entirely fair. It’s the worst on necros, at least with Rangers and Warriors it takes at least 2 LS to wipe the elite, which is easier said than done, unless they’re just standing there.
Mesmers/Engineers are somewhere in the middle, depends on their build. Other thieves you’re usually just exchanging boons with another S/D (lol), or they usually have a fair idea of your skills and avoid LS.
Having the boons on me, I like, but could learn to go without. 2 boons ripped would be alright, or 1 ripped 1 stolen.
You thieves call an advantage having many boons at disposal, eles and guardians spend their day cursing at the idea of having to rely on boons in the first place.
I’d pay Anet with real life money to change my base HP to that of necro/ranger/warrior; these three professions live in a state of perpetual buffs chain ( especially warriors) in contrast to ele/guardian who live in a state of perpetaul nerfdom ( especially ele which get nerfed at least once every 2 patches with one patch bringing useless buffs to unused skills/utilities )
So my dear thief players…be glad your profession doesn’t rely on boons because :
1) You avoid being the target of nerfs over and over again
2) Your base stats and skill dmg coefficient are not below the ground level
3) You’re not plagued by the longest CD in the whole game
You want my boons? HAVE THEM..just give me a mere 5k base HP buff, I mean having 10k HP and protection counts something?..once that partially useful trait goes down..you get oneshotted by the 30k HP warrior who doesn’t need a short lived boon like protection
Here @Waka…have some pudding:
LoL
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/S-F-glass-cannon-eles/first#post2838563
" 5-10% more dmg if target is burning"
" they can use signet of air"
Can you guys even start to realize how bad this @MrBig is?