And don’t take the easy way out and say “roll it all back / take out the guild missions”. Solve the problem as it lies.
Releasing a watered down bounty mission “tier 0” at AoW level 4 (or even 3), with only one bounty, reduced merit gain, drop rate and only 1 commendation would be a good start. Preferably followed by watered down versions of other missions at other level 4’s (some would be easy. “tier 0” puzzle would likely take some time).
Small guilds would have something to occupy them while waiting for the bigger missions unlocks. It would stop the perception of being gated from content (which is the main reason of hemorrhaging players to the bigger guilds). It would force big guilds to adopt again a nicer attitude, because their potential (and current) members would have other options and could simply go elsewhere.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
“We will slowly add the remaining ascended gear items and legendary items in future updates to allow people time to acquire them as we add exciting new content that deserves exciting rewards. We will not be adding a new tier of gear every 3 months that we expect everyone to chase after and then get the next set and so on.”
Seriously. Stop the gear treadmill nonsense. There isn’t one.
Three words: level cap increase.
(and no, while they did promise that legendaries willl be always bumped up to a bis tier- which in itself implies there will be more new tiers than just ascended – they did not promise that they will be upped in level.)
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Personally yes i think the laurel price for these items are obsolutely disgusting.
at this rate by the time we get to armor they will cost 50 laurels a piece, thats a year just to gear one char.
Look at the time and work that guild must do to get them the Laurels cost is right on if not lower then what else you must do to get them though the guild events.
If it is true (and it’s not so clear-cut. It’s laughably easy in 100+ member guilds. One such guild did a tier 3 bounty on the second day already) then the only thing it means is that ascended accessories cost is too high in both approaches.
No matter the effort to get them another way the fact remains, that the laurel+ecto cost (and time to get) for single eaaring is ridiculous.
And the other cost is actually “join a big guild”.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
I misstated, apparently, and now have to be slightly pedantic:
“Data collected at a specific time about a specific range does not change. Opinions held by particular individuals might possibly change over time, but this is not a certainty, and is void in the state of Wyoming.”
Doesn’t change anything. Opinions are data. Data collected at a specific time about specific range gives us an information about this range at this specific time. When time passes, this data may very well stop reflecting the range it was covering. The same is with opinions – we know that at certain time a certain group of people held a certain opinion about a certain matter. This also may be subjest to change with time. There’s no difference.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
they have the general players opinion, they have data.
Data is not opinion, because while data is generally specific and precise . . . it is also unchanging.
Opinions change over time.
Data changes as well – unless you stop collecting it, of course.
Also, lol. Anet posts here only to threaten OP with thread deletion and insist that the posts contain only opinions (which everyone knows already). The content, of course, remains unaddressed.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Now that guild events are part of the game we now have our first bit of content requiring …..well the guild. Any time you have events requiring larger #‘s of people you need an easy way to say “Hey, be on at inset time for X event” not like it wasn’t needed before but i would argue the need is growing now and becoming more important.
You mean like, guild chat?
or message of the day feature?
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Let’s be clear once and for all about this. A small guild member changing his mind and joining a bigger guild, or recruiting more people, is in no way a “leech”. But a guy representing a small guild 99% of the time and just switching to a larger guild when comes event time without ever having participated in building up the guild’s community and of course, gaining the required influence, is indeed a “leech”.
Or call him an opportunist if you prefer.
And yet, when people point out problems with small guilds being barred from the guild mission content, this is the behaviour that big guild members are advising them to take. Join the big guild for missions, while you are gathering influence for your small guild to unlock the content
In many cases those are the very same people that are against leeching.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Could we please get an official response if this is an intended nerf or an overlooked mistake?
It is neither. It just takes time to build these items and there is a huge amount of stuff on our list of things to do. We aren’t done adding stat combos. We will continue to add them as we have time to do so. With this batch, we wanted to even out the spread of primary stats and we already had a lot of stats with Power or Condition Damage as primary (more than any other, in fact), but I’ll be sure to get Valkyrie and Carrion into the next batch.
Don’t forget about adding the new stats to backpacks as well – it seems you missed that one in this update (understandable, i guess, due to how they are created, but still in need of fixing)
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
As a leader, if someone joins my guild just to get to participate in the guild events but doesn’t represent the guild to earn the influence required to start those events, he will get in trouble and will most likely get the boot if he doesn’t change is behavior.
I have a word for that kind of behavior – it’s called a “leech”. And I don’t like leeches. Want to benefit from the size of my guild? You better also participate in building it.
Elitism, and a profound lack of a sense of community rolled into one
Unfortunately, that is a completely valid response to the problem. You cannot fault big guilds’ leaders for taking additional measures to protect the sense of community of their own guilds. It is not their fault – the problem lies in game mechanics.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Hindsight is 20/20, foresight isn’t. While choice is an important part of games, so is knowledge.
Leftover, unspent influence accumulate. Done
What if there is NO leftover influence? Leftover after all suggests having more than needed, and the very fact that a guild had some branch still unresearched suggests they did NOT have any leftovers.
I have a question regarding this. What if your friends came with you to a bigger guild?
It still wouldn’t be a guild of my and my friends. I don’t enjoy being forced to socialize with people i don’t care about. The other people would likely not enjoy it as well.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Why cant smaller guilds work together to unlock guild missions? Why can’t their members cross rep and help with the resources needed to get the unlocks done?
I have no idea, you’d have to ask Anet why they did not provide such possibility.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
I’m not sure about the dungeon token unification (though i do agree that new currencies are already getting out of hand). Not sure how to solve this.
However, i do agree with two other suggestions from this topic:
1. change the tokens into a currency, so it doesn’t take inventory space.
2. add laurels as additional rewards for daily dungeon completion. you can make it one per all paths, if you think one per patch is too much. Also add laurels to daily fractal chests.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
i dont mind vertical progression if its minimal and have huge time sink requirement.
Problem with vertical progression is that it can be minimal only in the beginning. Since by it’s very nature it never stops, eventually the difference stops being small (mind you, what we have already is definitely not minimal). Of course, by then, since it is so horribly time-gated, you are hopelessly behind and will never catch up.
Unfortunately, that means that even if you do not care for that eq, you need to get it, if you plan to continue playing for a longer time (because waiting for the problem to really affect you is like waiting to press the brakes until you are already hitting the concrete wall).
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
The Influence needed for even starting Guild Missions is still too much.
If your guild has 10 active people, it takes less than 3 full path runs of AC to get the influence you need.
With 5 people, it will take 5 runs.
38.5k influence to get to AoW level 5. 30k to unlock bounties. That makes 68.5k, so, with 5 full runs and a 5-man group, you’d need to earn 13.7k influence per full run. I assume that by “full” you mean 3 paths, so it’s 4567 influence per run.
Somehow your runs give way more influence than mine.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
I think that what Anet was trying to implement is for the casuals who can’t play longer hours as semi to hardcore players do to be able to catch up in terms of gearing progression.
It does add up to many people but for others who can only log in like 1-2 hours a day or less, its a pace that they can keep up with other fellow gamers.
They cannot. They will use up all their time for doing dailies with no time left for any other activity. And they don’t log in everyday, nor they can access any alternative ways to get the eq.
With exotics, by just playing normally they could manage to get enough gold to buy the set at TP. introducing ascended was a great step backwards for them.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Check again. Every tree has a mission type at lvl 6 that doesn’t require commendations. The other ones are challenges or a harder version of the lvl 6 ones.
You’re mistaken. Not only do all of the unlocks except bounties require merits, they also require previous unlocks first. i.e. You have to unlock them sequentially, Bounties -> Treks -> Rushes, etc.
I would like to know where did you get that information (I’m not saying you’re wrong btw). But for what I could get by looking at the trees, you just have to research to lvl 6 and then unlock the “basic” version of the missions. The other ones down in the tree do require all that you mentioned.
The ones you should look for are the “x mission unlock”, not the “mission” ones. All the unlocks, except for bounty, require merits.
So, for example, “Guild Puzzle” requires level 6 Architecture, 200 influence, and Guild Puzzle Unlock upgrade (and spawns single Guild Puzzle mission). The Guild Puzzle Unlock requires level 6 Architecture, 50k influence, 250 merits and Guild Challenges unlock upgrade.
All the others follow similar approach, with the chain starting with Guild Bounties Unlock at AoW level 5
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
There is no grind at all, you don’t need to even do dailies.
3 monthlies will get you an ascended amulet.
FoTM will get you the ascended rings.
Guild missions will get you ascended earrings.
Is this the grind people are complaining about?
Yes.
3 months for one item? Are you even serious?
FotM – this is actually easiest, but it still is a mindnumbing grind, doing daily chests over and over again to get pair of rings for all my alts. And then there are backpacks, which require more grind.
Guild missions… i can’t play those. My guild is too small apparently to matter in the Big Scheme of Things.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
They are in the process of rolling out different methods of attaining ascended gear.
Yep, they are – since November 15th. So far none of the methods they introduced were any better than the original one, and since none of them gives access to all ascended eq, you have to use all of them, instead of picking one that best compements your playing style.
In short, instead of improving the situation, they are actually making it worse.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
It’s partially related to the time it takes. Personal rewards for guild missions can only be claimed once per week per mission category. Therefore if your guild only has guild bounties unlocked, it will take you 6 weeks to claim one of these accessories from the commendation vendor (assuming you don’t spend your commendations on anything else).
Since that does not really answer the question, let me rephrase it:
Do you consider 50 ecto + (at least!) a month of everyday play to be a reasonable effort for one ascended piece of equipment?
The fact, that it can be gotten through guild missions is at that time completely irrelevant, seeing as only a small minority of players will be able to access those rewards. If you disagree however, change the above effort to 6 weeks and 6 gold (i believe that is the correct price in addition to commendations?) . You can even completely ignore the massive price to unlock the missions (though really you shouldn’t).
How would you consider that price in light of people playing alts? What is your suggestion for people playing alts, or currently having multiple armor sets for different occasions?
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Just wanted you guys to know that these are also available as guild mission rewards as well. You can get them as random rewards from completing missions or from the commendation vendor.
I see what you did, you want people to play the guild missions. However if you put something ONLY in the guild missions people would complain about how it not fair to force them to do something. Because that’s the only way to get the item. Like they did with fractals.
So you made it where the other way to get earrings is way above what it worth.
So people will do guild missions, since thats much faster to do.
Except they won’t, because those missions got gated for only the biggest guilds. So again, the gap between haves and have nots is going to widen.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Dailies have always reset at 0:00 UTC (4 PM Pacific/7 PM Eastern), this is likely what you got.
Nope, they got reset at patch – they never reset at that time for me. Luckily i did finish my daily beforehand, seeing as patch hit shortly before i went to sleep.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
10 people is a very good size for a Tier 1 bounty mission.
What about higher tier bounties? What then?
Assuming _all_type T1 missions are doable by lev 10 guild, higher tiers are not a problem. they allow bigger guilds to engage in bigger events, and allow them to acquire merits/rewards faster. That is fair.
Or would be if all other mission types followed similar progress from T1 upwards, and if the T1 missions weren’t so horribly gated.
I won’t even go into the mess that ascended items are and how they make the bad situation even worse.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Just wanted you guys to know that these are also available as guild mission rewards as well. You can get them as random rewards from completing missions or from the commendation vendor.
You mean those missions that were gated for only the biggest guilds out there?
So, the minor percentage of “elite” players will get them easy, and for the rest there is only the grind. Worse than the previous ascended eq.
What will be next, ascended weapons for 100 laurels and 250 ectos?
This is a “content” targeted for only a small minority of the players. Casuals are allowed to look, but do not touch.
You can now get your claims to “zero grind” and “low curve” and dropkick them out of the window. Preferably from the top floor of a skyscraper.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Leviathan, there has up to now been NO content for large groups, is it really unreasonable to have some for large groups?
I have no problem with content aimed for large groups. I have problem with content that is exclusive to larger groups. After all, big groups are in no way restricted in participating in small group activities.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
pls stfu and listen. This is an MMO. stat/gear progression is NEEDED to keep people wanting to play and hopefully for anet buy more diamonds There is a reason wow is so successful
There’s a reason i don’t play WoW.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Think about it, right now they’re adding ascended gear bit by bit; so far we have rings/backslot and amulet. They still need to introduce Armor, weapons and accessories and all these items are level 80; you really think they would suddenly up the level cap during this process?
Not during. After. That way they won’t have to release new tier of eq comes january 2014 – they will release ascended. Level 90.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
How did the people against increasing the level cap cope with leveling and gearing up in the process itself?
Treated it as a boring chore that needs to be done with before we can start with the real game. I find no enjoyment in chores that keep me from the things that i like.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
There is no reason to postpone the patch or delay it. Guild Missions can be deployed as announced, I doubt there is time now to change anything. What can be done is make the changes to the system after it is released (adding “lower” tier Guild Missions). Postponing the patch doesn’t make any sense.
meaning, to add one more point to the “we say it will be fixed eventually, but don’t want to bother doing it” list.
Why everything they roll out needs to be seriously flawed, with fixes promised but never actually arriving?
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
No pressure. No objectives, just relaxed good ol’ PVP.
Yep. There’s nothing more calming than the knowledge that you can be ganked anytime.
Guild vs. Guild, even Guild’s on your own home server!
What about people that belong to multiple guilds?
No zerging (atleast very minimal)
…yeah, right. Because if you have a lot of friends, you will definitely NOT use the advantage that your numbers would give you.
And i can already see the zerg wars for the best farming spots and dungeon entrances ;P
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Think of how much you’d see getting done to, say, glass cannon builds if they ate 12x 25 Stacks of Bleed? Heck, even a tank-like build might be really in trouble at that.
How is that different than being hit by 5 different 100b warriors at the same time? Why should a team of direct damage dealers be more effective and capable of dishing out damage than a team of condition dealers?.
. . . because you can dodge Hundred Blades. You can’t dodge ticks from conditions.
You can however remove conditions. No matter how many bleed stacks you have on you, one condition removal takes care of it completely. It’s as if you had an effect type that removed all damage you have received in the last x seconds.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Engineer. That one is actually useful.
Mage classes in a world without magic aren’t. Of the rest… thieves are not exactly condoned by society (even if they can be profitable in the short term). Warriors (and magicless Guardians), as any profession centered around violence, aren’t safe.
That leaves a ranger, but i like cities, and i am not going to keep a grizzly bear in my apartment and a shark in my bathtub.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
The only people that really know what the numbers are on any given day are ArenaNet, and they’re not going to tell. They don’t have to, and it would be bad for business. I’m not sure what the speculation here really achieves.
Intresingly enough, it’s only bad for business if the data is not very optimistic.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Exactly!
Pvp on the Main Map, The World map is Open World Pvp!
WvW is not an Owpvp cause it IS an Instance Pvp similar to sPvp.
I’m really amazed that tons of GW2 players cant see the difference at all.
Because the only meaningful difference i see is that open world PvP has casuals in it – people that participate in PvP only as victims.
I understand that gankers want to have a herd of victims around, instead of only going at prepared targets. I understand it, but see no reason why GW2 should cater to that mentality.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Scandinavian countries are socialist and consistently rank in the world’s top 10 most livable and most developed countries in the world with the happiest people. Stop watching Faux News.
Nope, they are capitalist countries with strong social mechanics. That is not the same – in fact, there is a world of difference between those two.
Um, I lived in denmark… it’s a socialist democracy. Compared to the US, all of scandanavia is considerably further left than even the leftist elements of the democrats. eg: high taxes, fully government paid healthcare, education and social welfare from birth to death. They are as socialist as socialist gets.
They are as socialist as is possible with a country based on capitalist-type business.
Truly socialist country, for example, would have NO taxes. After all, if there is no private income, but only state-issued one, there is no need for them – all the “tax” money is deduced beforehand. Truly socialist country would have no private business – everyone would be a government (“state”) employee.
In theory it is a good idea. In practice if you do not work for your own gain, but for “good of all”, you usually neither work as hard as you could, nor really care. In the end, all the socialist countries are good for is making everyone equally miserable.
It is very good for their citizens, that scandinavian countries are not truly socialist.
0/10/0/30/30 ele is the gold standard of how everyone else should be.
I wouldn’t go that far, but certainly there is lot of things in that build that should be present everywhere – good skill/trait/action synergy, the exponential increase in effectiveness after learning the build. Self-heal should likely be toned down and replaced with other forms of damage mitigation (defensive/evasive weapons skills, i.e.). It should also be paired with severe overhaul (buffing, in general) of all other elementalist weapons and builds. Definitely devs should not start ele balance with a nerf. Unfortunately, seems that’s exactly what they are planning to do.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
As enjoyable as the bounties may be, I forsee the rewards being hardly worth the effort. Better to invest influence in a track that will actually benefit you as a player and a guild instead of wasting 36k+ on, lets face it, a dynamic event.
Then why is this thread even here if the rewards aren’t worth it? See big guilds will be able to do something that doesn’t have any real rewards, good for them, why does anyone else care then?
It’s again all about the Devs attitude towards casual play and the majority of players.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
I can see it now. Anet decides to bow to “the majority”, and creates and open world PvP server and calls Grenth’s Bloodbath
All the “hardcore” PvPers flock to it.
How, exactly, would this not decimate WvW to where they are the only server that plays WvW?
Oh, that’s simple. Only griefers would move to the PvP servers – and then they would scream bloody murder after noticing they have noone to grief (because everyone else stayed in PvE environment).
The people that want open PvP are not the same that play WvW. The second group is interested in competition, while the first wants to prey on unsuspecting (and preferably defenceless) victims.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
I know i’m going to regret this… but why in the world would the upcoming patch cause people to quit? I’ve heard only wonderful things about it. I didn’t know there was any controversial content in it…
Look at the topic about Guild Missions and how are they gated
