Guild Wars 2

Linguistically Inept.6583:

Atherakhia.4086:

Linguistically Inept.6583:

Atherakhia.4086:

I’d be kitten ed…

While I do feel that’s all too much for any single trait, I’d take it… but on the flip side, the only reason anyone goes 30pts in Marks right now is so Signet of Stone works. If this change also coincided with us no longer needing a 30pt trait to make Signets work on the Ranger I’d be happy.

as an LB ranger i go 30 in marksmanship for piercing arrows and eagle eye (because theyre both master tier major traits), and im sure someone ran the math and remorseless is definitely not worthy of GM tier i think it would be a great change for LB rangers… but SB rangers would hate losing piercing arrows

I’m a LB ranger also. I actually forgo eagle eye in favor of piercing arrow and spotter. I use signet for 30. Really wish spotter as a 10pt trait like the power aura is for Warriors.

and http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Strength_in_Numbers

My Sweet Lily.1952:

Why not a Grandmaster trait like this:
Increase both bow ranges by 300. All Arrows pierce and deal 5% (or 10%) more damage.

I sure would pick it.

would be an even better solution

Right. Warriors have a power one that’s also an adept option. Not sure why spotter needed to be a Master.

When you look at a Ranger’s pet as little more than a DOT that forgets to tick 1 out of every 3 ticks, you get a new appreciation for what AI really means in this game. Rangers have been begging ANet to fix Ranger pets to actually work half the time and expand on them to actually require more input from the player. ANet has ignored them since day 1 and thus why the Ranger class is in such a miserable state right now.

The fact that Spirits are so complained about baffles my mind at times. They have about 8k HP and are killed in seconds to AE. Granted they can be resummoned, but most AE that can down them the first time will be up again within 10 seconds to do it again when they’re all resummoned anyway. And when you take these spirits as a ranger you forego all stability and stun breaks available to the class so you’re a sitting duck to any type of CC in this game.

When you ask other people to explain why they’re overpowered they can’t… all they can do is sit there having a tantrum saying nerf rangers all day. The class has nothing to fall back on, so if nerfed you’re asking ANet to remove it from the game effectively. And while that’s not justification to leave an overpowered mechanic in the game, I’m not sure how it is seen as being overpowered in the first place.

Rangers, just like Necros and Engineers, are riding the condition biased meta while they can because ANet has not given either of these classes any option outside of condition gameplay. I can’t imagine Spirits or AI in general is the issue here.

Bacon.4918:

If you remove stealth from the thief the class will just devolve into a less viable version of the warrior or guardian. Stealth is easy to counter I really don’t understand why people are still complaining about it. The best strategy is to deny the thief stealth. People have already learned how to do this with CnD (long, telegraphed animation) and it can be done against d/p as well by standing inside the blind AoE (limiting the amount of stealth and costing the thief a lot of initiative). If the thief does manage to attain stealth your auto-attack or any AoEs work wonders to prevent the incoming backstab. I suggest playing a thief to understand the mechanics/mindset, after I did that I rarely die to a thief when playing mesmer/guardian/warrior/engie (can’t speak for other classes as I don’t play them). In fact it becomes one of the most predictable and easy to counter classes in the game.

None of this is true but the first line where you said the class is dependent on stealth. And I play a thief…

A Thief is fragile… but not to the point they wouldn’t just lunge at you if you’re AEing or not to get a backstab on you. There’s also no way to stop a thief from leaping through their field to gain stealth short of knocking them down. And we already have thieves who can perma stealth the entire length of the battlefield. This is because iniatiave regen is so insanely out of whack they don’t care about how inefficient blackpowder+heartseeker is. 9 vs 6, 2 of which is refunded anyway due to Infusion so it’s only 1 extra initiative.

In roaming, WvW has the same problem as sPvP for the most part. Conditions are quite overpowered. But most of WvW action these days are in medium to large groups and the sheer number of Guardians really cuts into the value of conditions for zergs. It’s great if your goal is simply to loot bags as you’ll tag a ton of players with them. But as an offensive tool? Not the greatest.

It’s a shame too because I’d love to play my Ranger as a power build, but they don’t have a real power option because ANet can’t figure out what they want the class to do in this game.

As for retaliation… they need to change that so it only does damage on the intial attack and not on subsequent ones. Take barrage for example… you never want to toss that into a zerg because you’re taking 350×5×10. Only the first wave should trigger retaliation.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Shanks R Us.2489:

Steelo.4597:

Increase revealed to minimum 10 seconds

I’m not even a thief and this made me laugh.

To me what needs to be done for Thief;

- Less Stealth, duration and number of skills that give it need to be reduced
+ Increase traits and skills that have a defensive (non stealth!) defensive option

To me, 90% of thieves defensive options are tied to stealth, the problem is to much of there attack is as well, with traits for increasing crit to 100%, increasing damage, speed and everything else.

In my opinion, Stealth should be more of a well timed skill rather then being spammable and being nearly Perma-stealth.

The number one problem with Thief (2nd being damage) is just how much stealth they have, how easily accessed it is and how long it lasts. Unless you have plenty of stuns/dazes available right at the moment the revealed buff is about to end you will not get a thief down before they go into stealth again/

They don’t have any real traits to give them stuff though. The only way a Thief could function in this game without stealth working exactly as it does now would be to give them protection for 5 seconds every time they crit with a stacking duration. They’re that dependent on it.

When all is said and done, the only thing that’s really abusing stealth right now is the kitten tol offhand with leap finishers.

A better solution would be to just introduce a way to reveal stealthed targets. For example… reduce the damage on burning and make it so burning will put a revealed debuff while they’re also burning.

Solves part of the condi imbalance and makes a realistic counter to stealth available to quite a few classes. Thieves may end up overnerfed with this change, but it’s probably easier to buff them from a nerfed state than nerf them from their current state.

Well the Warrior condition build with longbow and swrd/swrd is one of the strongest warrior builds in WvW now. That’s why I brought it up. Power builds for the Ranger are the worst you’re going to come across probably for any class. So if you’re serious about a power build I wouldn’t go ranger. Thief SB is strong with a power build, but you’re going to get bored quick with it imo. Mesmer power builds are insanely powerful and bursty, but you’re going to fall over quick as even perma chaos armor isn’t enough to keep you standing.

But of the 3 you mentioned, I think Mesmer ranged as power is your strongest option. It’s an absolutely pain to level though just FYI. If you can swap between ranged and melee with ease, then Thief would be my second choice. Ranger power just isn’t worth it imo.

If you want a condition build then you’ll be fine with Thief or Ranger. Thief pistol/dagger is probably one of their strongest builds right now. Shortbow is also very strong for a condi build (if used in melee range). Ranger is equally powerful with a condi/regen/bunker build (full apothecary gear), but it’s also quite boring to play (a lot of auto attack). If you were to play a condi build I’d have suggested Warrior as it’s more dynamic than a Ranger and more powerful overall.

I play a power ranger and I have fun, but I’m not the least bit impressed with what the class is capable of at range. I’m about 3 crystals away from trying full celestial as I’m curious how that will work for this class.

Really I’d just give each some time in soloQ sPvP and see if it’s something you enjoy. I think if you enjoy playing the class, even if it’s ineffective, you’ll still have fun.

the front page is filled with threads stating our opinion of the class. As you can see they’re mostly unfavorable

I’d say try each for a week in sPvP and see if it’s something you like. But your criteria isn’t specific enough to give you a definitive answer. Do you want a power based ranged class? A condition one? Would you consider a Warrior?

Linguistically Inept.6583:

Atherakhia.4086:

I’d be kitten ed…

While I do feel that’s all too much for any single trait, I’d take it… but on the flip side, the only reason anyone goes 30pts in Marks right now is so Signet of Stone works. If this change also coincided with us no longer needing a 30pt trait to make Signets work on the Ranger I’d be happy.

as an LB ranger i go 30 in marksmanship for piercing arrows and eagle eye (because theyre both master tier major traits), and im sure someone ran the math and remorseless is definitely not worthy of GM tier i think it would be a great change for LB rangers… but SB rangers would hate losing piercing arrows

I’m a LB ranger also. I actually forgo eagle eye in favor of piercing arrow and spotter. I use signet for 30. Really wish spotter as a 10pt trait like the power aura is for Warriors.

dodgerrule.8739:

They need a trait line where the ranger if standing still long enough will start to blend into their environment. Not stealth, but camouflage. Where if you look closely enough you can see them.

Then the class would be pretty close to my Scout and Ranger in Shadowbane. And I’d be happy(er).

I’d be kitten ed…

While I do feel that’s all too much for any single trait, I’d take it… but on the flip side, the only reason anyone goes 30pts in Marks right now is so Signet of Stone works. If this change also coincided with us no longer needing a 30pt trait to make Signets work on the Ranger I’d be happy.

Prysin.8542:

Atherakhia.4086:

Shoe.5821:

[QUOTE]Longbow #5: Barrage replaced with Aimed shot. 1.5-1.75 channel time that does high damage.
[/QUOTE]
== warrior rifle

That’s the plan, yes.

Though not as high damage.

Without barrage, we dont have ANY aoe… which means, we are screwd in WvW.

Barrage: remove restriction on number of targets, Boost damage by 150%, remove 1 boon/cure 1 condition on allies pr wave. +12 sec increased cooldown.

I moved it to a skill… It’s now an even stronger AE with a chill and an immobalize component.

Shoe.5821:

[QUOTE]Longbow #5: Barrage replaced with Aimed shot. 1.5-1.75 channel time that does high damage.
[/QUOTE]
== warrior rifle

That’s the plan, yes.

Though not as high damage.

Longbow #1: 0-900 does the same damage as the midrange now. 900+ either does the added bonus damage or gives a crit damage bonus.

Longbow #2: Channel time decreased from 4.5 seconds down to 3.5 seconds.

Longbow #3: Stealth regardless if the attack hits or not. If it hits, your pet gains openning strike and 5 stacks of might.

Longbow #4: It’s fine.

Longbow #5: Barrage replaced with Aimed shot. 1.5-1.75 channel time that does high damage.

Make openning strike and alpha training a single minor trait. Make precise strike the 15pt minor. Make spotter the 25pt minor.

Change fortifying bond to the reverse of what it does now. Any boons your pet gets, we gain instead. This way we no longer need Signet of the Beastmaster as a 30pt trait. Alternatively, just make the signets affect the ranger and not the pet and require fortifying bond so the signets would also affect the pet. Or you know what… just make the signets work for both regardless!

Pick a trap… frost, spike, mud… we don’t need 3 traps that do effectively the same thing. Replace the one you drop with barrage. Increase barrage damage and make the openning strike immobalize and all future shots either cripple or chill (depends if you really want the chill that frost trap provided as frost is the one I’d drop).

That’s how I’d approach it.

It is weak, but hardly worthless. Now if you don’t run a condition/bunker/regen build (which you should since it’s the only way to play this class currently) then obviously it’s not great. Especially when up against things like Banner Regen or SoR for Warriors.

But if you run full apothecary/settlers you’ll probably want it.

Leave the condition food alone. Just set a cap to how much condition duration can be reduced. This way players that don’t want the trait still have a food option. It’s only an issue because the food and trait stack.

Perma stealth is only an issue with blind field on pistol off-hand. Change leap finishers to an Aegis or to grant protection. Blast finishers are fine because they’re all AE and the thief runs the risk of hitting someone with it. The leap finisher can be changed with ease. Alternatively, fix the thief initiative regen as that’s the root cause of the problem.

Warrior stun duration is only an issue because of the sigils. I say change stuns in this game to have a max duration that way players can choose to go with the runes or sigils or go with the trait if they have access to it. Alternatively, introduce stun immunity == to 1.5 times the duration of the stun. So each time you’re stunned you gain stun and a boon that grants stun immunity. This way if you break the stun you can’t be restunned right away too.

Not convinced this is enough to ‘balance’ things though. Burn is still excessively strong. SoR and Banner Regen are overpowered. Classes that can stack and maintain 25 might on their own is overpowered. Power builds for classes like Rangers, Necros, and Engineers are still woefully inadequate. And this doesn’t even touch on the obvious issues of WvW in general.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

You would be able to salvage, at most it should be 50%, The creator could use “Salvage” and turn it into a mini supply camp that has 50% of the supply used to create the Siege.

I’d be concerned that would speed things up too much in WvW. I like the idea of just using enemy siege or a zerg actually needing to destroy their siege when they leave (but not salvage or for more supply).

While I would love to see an off-hand sword option, I’m not sure I like these moves from the balance side of things (style side they sound fun).

MH sword with your OH sword would have 2 leap backwards that do effectively the same thing.

Blitz is practically the same thing as Dagger #4. [edit…]

I think given all the QQ this class currently gets from all the evade attacks, and the fact that your attacks are very close to dagger, I’m not sure it’s a good fit.

A blade fury type attack like you mentioned would be fun though.
An engage (second part of backward slash) would be fine.

Kasama.8941:

Atherakhia.4086:

But you don’t need to use cluster bomb at range. You can use it in melee… and it deals a very high amount of damage. Blast for poison fields is also weakness which is insanely good right now. And again… we’re fighting over last place here. If you want the Thief to be last place in the AE department and Rangers to be 7th, so be it. I don’t agree but that’s fine…

Yes, you can use Cluster Bomb at melee range, that’s also how I’m using it. But the chance of you downing multiple players with it, is still small.

Actually, I would put the Ranger at sixth place, with the Mesmer being at seventh and the Thief at eighth. So to answer the topic; no, we do not suck so hard at AoE.

…

I’m just going to assume you’re not good with combi fields at this point. Mesmer is last place at anything in this game? Come on…

Rank them anyway you want… the OP will be back in a month claiming we all lied to him because Ranger AE sucks.

Kasama.8941:

Orion.3812:

Counterattack is not AOE, but I wish it was. You’re entirely missing the point though—it’s not about how many millions okittends of ineffective or unreliable AOE options a class has, but whether or not there are a small few effective, reliable, and low-cooldown AOE options. Ranger has no skills that have a short cooldown that hit more than three targets except for piercing arrows. Thief has shortbow.

Compare either class to elementalist, which can kill five people at once in one or two seconds with a certain dagger/dagger build, and has sustainable short-cooldown AOE on every weapon.

Counterattack does hit multiple players, but it can only be triggered by one player. But when fighting mobs, it’s easy to make them all stand in the same spot.

I’ve downed multiple players with Muddy Terrain>Entangle>Lightning Breath>Barrage, in a few seconds. I’ve never downed multiple players using Choking Gas and Cluster Bomb. The Thief’s AoE skills are great for tagging players, but you aren’t going to down more then one player on your own, with them.

Atherakhia.4086:

Simply listing off every attack that hits multiple targets isn’t going to prove a class has strong or weak AE. Thief AE is infinitely more powerful than Ranger AE despite the Ranger clearly having access to ‘more’. If Thief AE was on a cooldown instead of initiative based you’d have a point… but it is, and you don’t. And we’re still trying to fight over last place here for some reason…

Having more options is always better. The fact that the Thief can spam his AoE skills doesn’t make them better. It’s only worth using Choking Gas once, as it’s a combo field, and then you’ll be able to use around five Cluster Bombs, at a very slow interval if you’re at range. While you’ll be able to deal some good damage doing this, you won’t be able to down multiple players. And that’s what all the Thief’s AoE skills have in common.

But you don’t need to use cluster bomb at range. You can use it in melee… and it deals a very high amount of damage. Blast for poison fields is also weakness which is insanely good right now. And again… we’re fighting over last place here. If you want the Thief to be last place in the AE department and Rangers to be 7th, so be it. I don’t agree but that’s fine…

Now as for barrage mentioned above by a previous poster and how retaliation affects it… what if they just changed retaliation to only trigger off the first tick? It doesn’t seem very fair for a heavy hitting spell to reflect back 325 because it’s single target, but for barrage to reflect back 325 each tick when it still deals less than the other’s AE for example. Could also make retaliation have an internal cooldown so you can only be hit by it once every few seconds.

May end up nerfing the Guardian and Warrior builds, but both are top tier classes as it is so they could do with a little toning down maybe.

I don’t think we need anything too ellaborate. I’m cool with only using one pet etc etc, but the functionality of the pet is the issue.

Allow pets to hit moving targets by either increasing their attack range or increasing their attack speed. This is an obvious AI issue with GW2 as you can beat any melee oriented mob in this game simply by strafing in circles around it. I’m not confident ANet will ever get pets to hit moving targets properly in this game.

Allow F2 abilities to fire off instantly when pressed. I’m fine with the pet running through their entirely too long animation after the skill goes off, but having to wait 2+ seconds for a dog to howl, or 1.5 seconds for the cat to stomp their feet and pounce doesn’t work in a mobile pvp environment. I realize they need some kind of activation time to remain ‘balanced’, but I’m not convinced anyone is going to select the pet to interrupt anyway so who cares? If need be, give them half a second activation times. But as it is right now, ALL F2 abilities are useless offensively because they’ll never hit anything unless the target is actively beating the ranger into the ground in melee range and completely ignores the all too obvious sign that a fear is inc.

Remove the ability for targetted special moves in dungeons to hit pets (Jade Maw for example) and reduce all cleave and AE damage by 50% in PvE and WvW. The numbers in WvW will offset the AE reduction enough so players can still ignore pets and expect them to die from random AE damage just like they do today, but hopefully the pet will live long enough to actually do something for the ranger as well. In dungeons, there’s little reason for pets to be targetted by random selection instant-death mechanics like Jade Maw’s laser. If the pet actively has agro because it’s tanking, that’s one thing… but most bosses single target melee attacks would 2 shot a pet anyway.

Honestly that’s all it would take to make the pet a somewhat dependable addition to this class. 3 simple little things that should have been done a year ago but for some reason seems out of ANet’s ability to do.

If these 3 little things turn out not to be enough, then we can worry about more ellaborate things like what’s in the OP. But as it is right now, these 3 things are pretty much mandatory if the pet mechanic is going to stay in the game at all.

Now as for Spirits (and Signets imo)… the problem with Spirits (and Signets imo) is they require 30 point traits to be useful. While a case could be made that you don’t need the 30pt trait in sPvP because fights are all focused around objectives, WvW is far too fluid. There’s no reason a class should have so many of their skills be useless without first investing 30 pts into a tree. Just allowing spirits to move and signets to affect the ranger and needing a low level trait to make them all affect the pet is all that’s needed.

Durzlla.6295:

Sube Dai.8496:

Durzlla.6295:

I still think sig traits should swap places with the trap traits and then the martial mastery trait be moved into skirmishing

I reckon sigs should go in BM and replace some of those useless traits.

Then marksman would have 3 missing traits and they’d need more, not to mention it’d compete pretty heavily in a tree meant to BUFF YOUR PET.

The problem with marksmanship is if you run any other weapon than longbow you do alright and the tree isn’t too bad. But if you run longbow you need like 5 different traits because everything is spread out all over.

Go guardian or warrior imo. Both other a ton of control options.

Warrior in particular are pretty op right now with their insakittenup regen, strong AE stuns, strong condition damage, etc etc.

Guardian is the posterchild for GW2 though so you can guarantee they’ll never be nerfed.

Lord Hammer Hand.4815:

warrior i there with necro and spirit rangers as the most common class in solo que, at least you will see different kinds of warrior, bunker, 2 sword pressure warrior and hammer CC warrior. cant say bout the necro and ranger they all run same build atm.

They don’t have competetive builds other than condi/bunker.

Kasama.8941:

Orion.3812:

Kasama.8941:

It’s not that bad at all. Playing a Thief is much worse, since all you have is the shortbow. The Ranger has the choice of traps, axes, bows with pierce, and even the greatsword. Drakes are also a great source of AoE damage.

Thief sword is just as painful to a mob as the ranger greatsword. In fact, it’s even more painful because it does full damage instead of a percentage of total damage while the other portion is reserved for the pet. Against PvE targets, a properly traited thief can keep a group of enemies blinded indefinitely while the sword auto-attack kills three at once. In WvW, I’ve been having good luck with dagger/dagger+sword/pistol in soloing camps or running right in the middle of the zerg with glass gear. Daggers may be mostly single-target, but the dual skill Death Blossom hits many targets and evades. If that isn’t good enough for you, use Dagger Storm with Signet of Malice and take your hands off the keyboard while you auto-run straight into a zerg. This leaves your hands free to roll around the floor laughing at your damage and healing output.

Shortbow cluster bomb isn’t nearly as good since the range nerf in WvW, but it still wrecks mid-range groups with damage that is more consistent than ranger’s barrage which has a much, much longer cooldown for not that much more damage.

All this said, I’m not sure either of the two classes is particularly lacking in AOE ability. Used properly, the potential for piercing arrows is amazing—that said, many projectiles for other classes inherently pierce. Having an entire trait dedicated just to piercing seems a bit steep even if the trait is a must-have for a bow ranger, and piercing arrows as AOE also requires specific positioning forcing the class into a specific play-style to AOE effectively.

The Thief is lacking in AoE damage options, even compared to the Ranger. It’s not even very close.

Thief:
Trick Shot, Cluster Bomb, Choking Gas, Slice (sword auto-attack), Flanking Strike, Pistol Whip, Death Blossom, Dancing Dagger, Caltrops, Dagger Storm – Steal: Exploding Venom Sack, Throw Gunk, Whirling Axe

Ranger:
Slash (greatsword auto-attack), Maul, Swoop, Counterattack, Barrage, all arrow attacks with pierce, Slash (sword auto-attack), Ricochet, Splitblade, Path of Scars, Whirling Defense, Bonfire, Call Lightning, Flame Trap, Spike Trap, Viper’s Nest, Entangle – Pets: Poison Cloud, Poisonous Cloud, Frost Breath, Insect Swarm, Sonic Shriek, Lightning Breath, Fire Breath, Poison Gas

…

Simply listing off every attack that hits multiple targets isn’t going to prove a class has strong or weak AE. Thief AE is infinitely more powerful than Ranger AE despite the Ranger clearly having access to ‘more’. If Thief AE was on a cooldown instead of initiative based you’d have a point… but it is, and you don’t. And we’re still trying to fight over last place here for some reason…

The problem with piercing arrow is if you want to hit a lot of targets, you have to target the players in the back and not the one you may necessarily want to actually kill. This is because the arrow trajectory adjusts based on the target you’re hitting. It’s also of limited value on a wall because you’re unlikely to hit many targets.

So yea, when it comes to AE, this class is probably the worst at it.

If Rangers had a real non-condi option in this game i’d be playing it.

Durzlla.6295:

Xsorus.2507:

The problem with Rangers is Structured PVP, Anet seems to balance around the LCD of this game, which is SPvP and its general awfulness. Until we separate that dumbed down system of point camping from the rest of the game, Rangers will not see improvements.

I mean christ, Spirit Rangers are the most overpowered thing ever seen in SPvP right now according to the forums.

Let that sink it…Spirit Rangers…Are absolutely so overpowered…That Rangers need to be gutted because of it.

This is what Anet has been balancing the game around…That should frighten everyone on this forum….as it doesn’t bold well for this game.

Forums =/= fact, remember when 100 blades were OP? Yeah me neither, but the forums screamed to the high heavens it was, spirit rangers are in the same boat, stupid people think they’re OP, they really aren’t though and are easily countered.

To be fair, they did nerf 100blades and the Ranger was a casualty of war. This was when they nerfed the attack speed buff on zephyr’s and frenzy.

Xsorus.2507:

Atherakhia.4086:

Rengaru.4730:

Durzlla.6295:

Best part, nothing really changed about spirit rangers lol

You are forgetting:

• Spirit-activated skill range increased from 180 to 240 (360 when traited).
• Call Lightning: Increased the damage by 150%.
• Solar Flare: Decreased the cast time from 1.7 seconds to .5 seconds.
• Vigorous Spirits: This trait has been merged with Spiritual Knowledge.
• Spiritual Knowledge: This trait has been moved to the Adept tier.

Then there was also the infamous nerf to pets across the board, that nerfed the (back then) superior BM-ranger.

Their health was also doubled.

Ranger pet health wasn’t double across the board

Ursine pets: health increased from 26,000 to 29982; armor is now 2061 (up 687). Polar bear’s power now matches that of all other bear pets.
Dogs: health increased from 13,000 to 14,868; armor is 2061 (no change).
Cats: health increased from 13,000 to 14,868; armor is 1374 (no change).
Devourers: health increased from 11,089 to 14868; armor is 2748 (no change).
Birds: health increased from 11,894 to 14,868; armor is 1374 (no change).
Drakes: health increased from 11,683 to 22,425; armor is 2061 (no change).
Spiders: health increased from 18,646 to 22,425; armor is 1374 (no change).
Pigs: health increased from 20,538 to 22,425; armor is now 2061 (up 687).
Moas: health increased from 16,781 to 22,425; armor is 1374 (no change).
Armor Fish: health increased from 16,781 to 22,452; armor is now 2748 (up 343).
Jellyfish: health increased from 11,089 to 22,425; armor is 1374 (no change).
Shark: health increased from 13,000 to 22,425; armor is now 2061 (up 687).

Cats received less then 2k HP increase in health

in exchange

Armor Fish: Bite: Reduced the damage by 50%.
Bird: Slash: Increased the damage by 15%.
Eagle: Lacerating Slash: Reduced the damage by 50%.
Raven: Blinding Slash: Reduced the damage by 34%.
Canine: Bite: Reduced the damage by 27%.
Devourer: Twin Darts: Reduced the damage by 20%.
Drake: Bite: Reduced the damage by 27%.
Insect Swarm: This skill can no longer fire behind the drake.
Drake: Lightning Breath: Reduced the damage by 17%.
Feline: Maul: Reduced the damage by 50%.
Jaguar: Stalking: Critical chance increase while in stealth reduced to 25%.
Jellyfish: Tentacle Slash: Increased the damage by 50%.
Jellyfish Blue: Chilling Whirl: Decreased the damage by 33%.
Moa: Peck: Reduced the damage by 7%.
Pig: Jab: Reduced the damage by 25%.
Shark: Bite: Increased the damage by 10%.
Spider: Spit: Increased the damage by 10%.

They Lost 50% of the damage on their primary burst skill, and Jaguar ate a nerf

Drakes are the only pet that got a massive HP increase, in exchange their damage was slashed by almost 30%

This was a thread talking about spirits… spirit health was doubled

Remorseless is never going to be a good trait so long as you need the other trait to make signets useful. I’m sorry, but us requiring 30 pts in a tree to make the vast majority of our skills even warrant a slot on our bar is problem #1 with this class. You can either change the signets so they all impact the ranger alone or you can change the 15pt nature trait to give boons from the pet to the ranger. I couldn’t care less which option is chosen.

I also don’t really agree with your changes to the longbow. There’s no reason ANet can’t just change Rapid Shot to apply the full stack on one shot at the beginning of the cast. Just do that and change the channel time to 3.5 seconds instead of 4.5 seconds. As it is right now I’m not convinced the spell even grants much of a DPS bonus from using it because of the horrendously long channel duration.

Now as for Hunter’s shot, that change was completely random imo. I still haven’t a clue why they did it and it’s clear to me that they came up with the idea of the Remorseless trait before they came up with the idea of Hunter’s Shot. Now that we have it though, the skill isn’t as reliable as it should be. While CnD on the Thief requires hit or it will fail, the Thief also doesn’t have cooldowns on their abilities and it’s a melee range ability for a melee class. Hunter’s Shot needs to always stealth regardless of hit as having it obstructed is too large a hit to its reliability. I’d have sooner attached stealth to point blank shot but I understand they want the weapon to have 2 utility/defensive options.

Longbow’s auto attack also needs to be improved. The low range damage needs to be removed. The mid range damage should be from 0-900 range. The high end damage can either stay or make it so you gain a crit damage bonus on shots over 900 range. As it is right now, the shortbow’s auto attack is a better power weapon than longbows.

I do agree that Marksmanship is a very bloated tree and a lot of the traits need to be moved around or combined with others. I’m worried just combining some and introducing new ones will leave us in the same situation we’re in now though.

Durzlla.6295:

Atherakhia.4086:

Durzlla.6295:

Atherakhia.4086:

You’ve listed the options. Empathic Bond, staying in Spring, and SoR.

On the flip side, the Ranger is also a strong condi class (even with mostly being single target only with condis) and it really isn’t ‘fair’ for a condi class to also have strong condi removal imo. Necro of course does I realize, but that was a mistake on ANets part imo.

They said necro is supposed to be -the- condi prof, hardly see that as a mistake since they suck vs direct damage.

I’m simply saying it’s poor class design to have a class both be strong at conditions and also remove conditions with ease. You run into the whole Necro vs Necro fights go nowhere scenario.

Well they can’t be the kings of condis if condis killed them easily now can they? And both my Mesmer and my engi have been able to beat condi necros (both them are condis) and my trapper ranger can do the same, it’s rough and there’s no way you could go 2v1 with it, but it’s totally doable.

Sure they could… simply give them more types of conditions or a way to stack them quicker than the other classes and you still maintain the ‘king of conditions’ mantle. And I’m not implying Rangers suck or Necro condis are overpowered etc etc. I’m simply saying if you look at balance in general and other MMO’s, they don’t usually give a class access to strong condition removal and strong conditions.

They have it now, they’ll keep it, and there’s nothing that can be done.

Durzlla.6295:

Atherakhia.4086:

You’ve listed the options. Empathic Bond, staying in Spring, and SoR.

On the flip side, the Ranger is also a strong condi class (even with mostly being single target only with condis) and it really isn’t ‘fair’ for a condi class to also have strong condi removal imo. Necro of course does I realize, but that was a mistake on ANets part imo.

They said necro is supposed to be -the- condi prof, hardly see that as a mistake since they suck vs direct damage.

I’m simply saying it’s poor class design to have a class both be strong at conditions and also remove conditions with ease. You run into the whole Necro vs Necro fights go nowhere scenario.

Generally speaking, Ranger base damage and coefficients are lower on all of their weapons and weapon abilities. It is presumed this is because the pet makes up 35-50% of the class’ damage.

You’ve listed the options. Empathic Bond, staying in Spring, and SoR.

On the flip side, the Ranger is also a strong condi class (even with mostly being single target only with condis) and it really isn’t ‘fair’ for a condi class to also have strong condi removal imo. Necro of course does I realize, but that was a mistake on ANets part imo.

I’d accept every one of your issues gladly if the F2 abilities for pets actually worked… ever. That alone makes the whole mechanic 100% useless. Currently the only role the pet plays is that of a DOT that can’t be dispelled, but also can’t hit moving targets half the time and doesn’t work in the various scenarios you mentioned.

F2 abilities need to be instant.
Secondary abilities need to be controlled.
Pet names need to save.
Pets need to stay stowed if told to and not able to come out unless out of combat.

Paz Shadow.9715:

I feel since it is our only aoe attack it should have something that makes it a bit op. Just like devs buffed the ac’s in wvw, when I pop barrage I want people to be like “Oh crud, I gotta move fast” instead of “meh, 1 sec cripple, just roll once and carry on”

If you want it to live up to that it can’t be a weapon option, but rather a skill that the class needs to choose independently.

This is the most idiotic thing I’ve ever heard in my life. This is an MMO, not real life. There is no use in having a ‘jack of all trades’ type class in an MMO. If this had real PvE content that actually require the use of more than a single brain cell, this class would be the one no one would want in an organized group.

So if you want to roleplay some useless old fart hiding in the mountain talking to some random animal that would no doubt be dead without you since they’d never catch anything on their own, go for it.

This is an MMO though where classes need to compete with each other for a reserved slot on a team. If you were to rephrase your whole ‘whine thread whining about whining’ I R LEGOLAZ into something along the lines of ‘well maybe this class isn’t supposed to be just a ranged assassin, but a melee class too’ you’d almost have a point. Except of course the ranged options for this class are awful. But still… more of a point than your roleplay angle.

Leuca.5732:

Conan.8046:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7lglchYNew

who needs smell.

It has awesome eyesight and comes at 200 mph.

If only birds in gw2 didn’t fly 3 feet above the ground at all times..

And flutter around like a moron for 5 seconds before attacking. And not use the F2 ability until you mashed it 5 times in a row. But not 6, because 6 will make it fail and not work at all.

Rengaru.4730:

Durzlla.6295:

Best part, nothing really changed about spirit rangers lol

You are forgetting:

• Spirit-activated skill range increased from 180 to 240 (360 when traited).
• Call Lightning: Increased the damage by 150%.
• Solar Flare: Decreased the cast time from 1.7 seconds to .5 seconds.
• Vigorous Spirits: This trait has been merged with Spiritual Knowledge.
• Spiritual Knowledge: This trait has been moved to the Adept tier.

Then there was also the infamous nerf to pets across the board, that nerfed the (back then) superior BM-ranger.

Their health was also doubled.

+1

It’s not that I’m entirely against the pet mechanic. My issue is that the pet simply doesn’t work. The game has been out for a year now, and while the pet has improved from launch, it’s still a hindrance to this class and completely unreliable.

Pet attack range needs to be increased so they can more reliably hit moving targets.
Pet F2 abilities need to be instant cast so they can actually be used at all.
Pet traits are just a complete joke and spread all over the place. Entire trait lines need help.
Signets need to affect the player and not the pet base. Certainly shouldn’t need 30marks.
Pets need more control (secondary skills should be controllable too).

I mean this is a lot of work, and this is what would be required to even get close to making the pet for this class on par with even the worst of other class mechanics in this game. I don’t think ANet has the time or interest to do it… let alone the actual capability given it has been a year and we see where we are right now.

Simply changing the channel on Rapid fire to 3.5 seconds instead of 4.5 seconds would be enough to make the skill useful. As it is right now it’s really not much of damage benefit to use the skill and its only real benefit right now is it can track onto stealthed targets if you begin the channel before they stealth.

While I do find barrage weak for what it is, an immobilize would be entirely too much.

What legs are you using? I was looking for a skirt for my outfit but the armor galleries I use don’t show anything.

Nevermind, found them. Not paying gems for stuff

DevonCarver.5370:

The commander system is only the barest hint of what we would like it to be in the long term. There are a lot of things that should be better, including the visibility of squads, and we’ll make sure to not only incorporate feedback we see on the boards but also actively seek out feedback as we flesh the system out in the future.

The future should be now though…. this has been complained about for 9 months (I’ve only played for that long. I wouldn’t be surprised if it was a day 1 issue). I realize things move slowly, but you’ve been here for 5 months you said? And all we have to show for it is WXP chests and a poorly implemented WXP skill system.

At some point things need to happen now instead of constantly using Blizzard’s ’SOON’tm where soon is any period from 3 months from now to never, but certainly never now..

The drop rate must be insanely low for precursors and rings. Someone on my server is like rank 350+ or some crazy nonsense. He said he has gotten a single ring so far. That’s insane. why isn’t the drop rate the same as with Fractal chests?

Increase the power of condition cleanses by either making them remove more conditions, introducing more ways to remove conditions, or lessen the cooldown on condition removal skills.

Change it so these same cleanses will remove an equal number of boons as conditions if enough boons exist.

This was how Shadowbane’s dispell system worked in effect and Shadowbane probably had the best group pvp system for an MMO at the time.

Can we use this as a ‘quality of life’ thread for the ranger? Because I’ve got another little quibble I want to bring up yet again..

Attack and Recall should be on the same button. The premise is you send your pet to attack and the game will run through a simple if routine. If the pet is already targetting the target you told it to attack, it will return. If you tell it to attack a target it isn’t already on, it will switch to that target and attack. I’ll even go one better and provide the code if needed since I made the zHunter mod in WoW to do the same thing.

But it really does make controlling the pet much easier, makes it more responsive, and it will free up a hotkey slot so we can maybe get more added functionality in the future.

It has been explained to you a dozen times or more katana…. this can’t be fixed.

The pet isn’t finding you unless the Ranger selected you and told it to attack you or you attacked the ranger/pet. Those are the only 2 scenarios possible.

So even though you may think you’re the greatest ninja that ever lived hiding behind some twig out in the open, if you’ve been TAB targetted you’re going to have a pet on you. Just like if you’ve been tab targetted, a player with a ranged weapon will spam auto attack and find out where you’re at because the projectile will fly toward you.

The only exception to this scenario is stealth. Against a player, the target is dropped. Against a mob, it’s not because stealth doesn’t drop agro.

It can’t be fixed… everything you’re complaining about in this thread is normal AI behavior and not specific to the ranger in any way.

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

I like how you make it sound like the Pet presses cntrl T and the ranger then targets you. If you have been targeted and the target the locked, the pet will always hunt you out. If your not targeted the pet won’t. You can shake the rangers target with stealth, but the pet remains fixed if it has been set on you.

Again… this is normal behavior. Players can do this too. Turn on auto and attack something, select the guardian and get your ranged daze ready. When you see them cast, daze. Until you shoot the second target, you’ll still fire at the first.

What’s also funny about this thread is it wasn’t even a month ago where people were complaining thieves were overpowered because they could drop target and people wanted to change stealth so players didn’t have to reselect the thief.

Just make a new thread asking ANet to make stealth drop agro in sPvP only and you’ll resolve all the problems in this thread.

Aeri.5738:

As you said, this is mainly LB changes and only secondary effecting the power build issues.
While weapon skills ARE important for this, it’s not the core of the problem.
we dont want to buff Rangers Power in general, just the Power focused builds.
Buy buffing weapons in general you dont accomplish this goal.

I also disagree on the “no burst no AE” complain.
GS has a wide cleaving attack, Barrage IS AE, GS2 and LB2 are high burst skills, GS5 opens up pet burst. Sword 1 + QZ is pretty kitten bursty etc. etc.

We have the mechanics needed, and Imho all we lack is some power behind our blows.
If we were to add traits buffing certain skills in the power or skirmishing lines, that would be a competely different story.

PS: barrage as a utility skill is bad. competely. Watch a Sword/dagger Ranger shoot arrows from the sky…

Well to be fair, Longbow is kind of seen as ‘the’ power weapon for this class. While rapid shot can apply bleeds via crits and it paired with a warhorn can stack them insanely high, most don’t use it for that purpose. Longbow really is only used for power builds so I see changing it as a good first step.

Now as for AE, the only true AE on greatsword is Maul. greatsword base damage is very low, it’s also a melee weapon which means it of course has the frontal arc just like sword and evrtything but daggers. That’s not real AE though and it certainly isn’t applying pressure with the low damage. Sword on the other hand does competetive damaeg (still sustained and attacking 50% faster for 4 seconds isn’t burst), but using it effectively as an AE tool is near impossible since the auto attack can’t be controlled.

Dealing 10k in 5 seconds isn’t burst for Rapid Shot either.

As for barrage looking bad on a melee ranger? Charzooka does the same thing… The ranger could grow a giant spirit tree in the field and the leaves could rain down for all I care really. I’m not concerned with the ‘sense’ of the attack, just that it fills a purpose. All of the skills for this class are more utility in nature. We need some real damaging ones imo.

Now as for power behind the attacks etc etc. We’re not really gaining much with your change. We’re just offsetting it from the pet. Those of us who do control the pet properly and make good use of it in PvP/PvE would therefor not gain any real benefit from your change and we’d still not have any real burst or AE to bring forward. I’m fine with making the pet have less of an impact on the class, don’t get me wrong. I’ve said from the very beginning that if they want the pet to be more than a DOT for this class, they need to make it work. 9 months later we’re still without it working. But the pet isn’t the only (or main) problem with this class imo.

Shame the Ranger doesn’t have a power build option in this game. Would much rather play it than condi regen spec :/