Guild Wars 2

Celtic Lady.3729:

kash.9213:

I only play WvW, I can’t spend the hour or hour and a half a work day I get to log on harvesting and killing ten of this or fifty of that.

I have a guildie that works a lot and only has minimal time in the evening to play and he doesn’t want to spend it chasing dailies, either. They are boring the heck out of us right now, so we’re just not doing them. I had planned to get a full set of ascended jewelry with my laurels just to have something to work toward, but I don’t have 100 ectos, so I’ve since changed my mind and decided to forget the ascended pieces. All my entertainment dollars are going elsewhere right now, so it’s all good. I’ll let the fanboys keep the game running and play in the future when there’s something else I want to do.

you guys “only” do wvwvw?

i cannot answer this question without taking into consideration other factors that are part of the game.
i did that in my other post.

you are funny.

i answered his question!!!

ill make it simple for simpler brains;

i dont mind vertical progression if its minimal and have huge time sink requirement.

its hard to do a living story that all players from all levels can do.

the next epicness will be the expension.

:)

Raine.1394:

Before we are ready for questions from you we need to bring mine to completion. And, once we do all your questions will be answered as well.

You’ve made an excellent start in using the term ‘stronger’ and ‘statistical advantage’ to describe aspects of vertical progression. The etymology is a bit confused. The term didn’t originate because of mmo’s and players who play too much and while it exists in ‘endgame’, it does not define end game. But, let’s work with what we have.

You have the function, though only partially. It is about providing motivation for continued play through adding stat numbers to the character sheet (getting stronger). You have something to work for. And, it also gives a sense of progression in that you’ve accomplished something and have the numbers to prove it.

Let’s do a thought experiment that should get you thinking enough to both provide a simple definition and answer your question to me. Let’s suppose we have two players, you and that other guy you mention who plays to “get[s] stronger, have a satistical advantage, over another player over time”. And let’s suppose he chooses to ride the treadmill and you don’t. He gets stronger over time and you don’t. He has a growing statistical advantage over you over time and you have a growing statistical disadvantage vis-a-vis him over time. Let’s assume time passes; it always does. To spice things up, let’s suppose you both like to duel each other. What will be your experience dueling him over time? Take a few minutes to consider this. Then, give me a simple concise definition of vertical progression. I’ll even give you a hint here: it exists within the definition of the words that make up the concept.

my answer;
if he spent x amount of hours (probably a Kitten lot, otherwise we wouldnt be having this discussion) to be somewhat statistically stronger than me (i’m saying “somewhat” because as it is now it isnt much, and as he gets his gear i get some too once in a while), then i dont care.
i ve spent this huge X amount of hours having fun (and probably getting some gear in the process too) instead of raging and complaining. so if i duel him with a “5%” more or less disadvantage… no sweat, ill beat him easily as i probably have a lot more skills since i did pvp, wvw, dungeons, jump puzzle, alts etc, and that guy only “farmed” the same thing over and over again.

that goes back to my original point; 5% more or less (considering i might have about a third of the ascended piece he have, and all not infused) is a very small increase that requires way too much grind for whats it worth.
its allright that some players need it and fall into the trap.
(gw2 designers are smart).

and now answer my question and youll answer yours at the same time.

drwookie.6391:

Avatar.1923:

ascended gear for wvwvw players.

that should be the thread subject, as its the only legitimate claim people can make concerning ascended stuff.

I made a thread earlier today suggesting that when they release ascended armor, or ascended weapons (whichever comes first), they make it “WvW exclusive” for a few months, just like this stuff continues to be PvE exclusive.

problem is if you lure the “huge” reward driven risens into wvw, its gonna jam.. lag, queue time etc .. anet doesnt have the technology not enough wvw capacity to do this yet.
march update will be a good stress test.

@jordy

not everyone tries to get max profit.
but thats definitely a group of people who would enjoy more a game like D3.

i would be happy if gw2 strong playerbase would eventually, slowly, lose these profit oriented players.
sorry anet

some players need it to keep playing.
anet is cathering to “all type of players”.

the “perfect player” would play 1/3 pvp, 1/3 wvw, 1/3 pve.
this way he wouldnt burn the content.

but as data probably shown anet; a big majority of their current playerbase is reward driven. give them a stat grind an theyll keep playing.
hence why we got the fotm and the laurels.

now; thats all “ok” imo, aside for wvw….
what will be the solution?

dunno.
but right now its a minor problem that they dont deal with.
it could take bigger proportions and im sure it is on their list now.
probably by giving a way for wvw players to buy ascended gear, next month.

et voila.

thank you im smart

ascended gear for wvwvw players.

that should be the thread subject, as its the only legitimate claim people can make concerning ascended stuff.

true.
a lot of people seem to play “the most rewarding thing” over and over again.
i know a rl friend thats like that.

do you really think anet can cure these people ? even if its 1 silver an hour more they will go there.
imo its better to clog them in one place so they dont affect too much the overall game.

Raine.1394:

Avatar.1923:

Raine.1394:

Avatar.1923:

there is no forced grind.
you dont need “BiS” to get into any of the game content (fotm lvl 20+ aside… but hey…).
you can rock orr with your exo and probably be the best player in wvw with your exo.

do the test.
check you “ascended hp” difference. its nothing. 100-200hp??
and your dmg? 40-50 more?

geez people, wake up!
the game is vast and nearly totally horizontal!
do an alt, do pvp, wvw, guild mission, map complete, whatever!

I can help you here. Can you give me the definition of vertical progression and it’s role in game design? According to Anet, post 11/15 we have vertical progression. It’s a straightforward concept. Can you explain it by defining it and describing it’s function?

there is a vertical progression. but i dont feel that the “gear” will “gate” the content.
will you be 2-3% better ? maybe.
but you can still do whatever you enjoy without a gear gate once you reach 80.

I didn’t ask you how much the initial pieces increased the power level of the game, I asked you to define vertical progression and describe it’s function in a game. Until you are able to articulate it yourself you will continue to say that it’s optional and disseminate misinformation on forums. Are you able to define and describe the function of vertical progression? I can understand why you wouldn’t want to go there and sincerely doubt you will.

vertical progression; basically a term that became popular because of mmos and players who play too much to define “endgame”. a vertical progression means that your Avatar will get stronger, have a satistical advantage, over another player over time.
function; because some players need to know their Avatar is getting statistically stronger as they play.

Now.

my question;
yes there is a vertical progression in gw2, but it is so minimal that it becomes as optional as achievement points, or pvp ranks, or qty of lvl 80 toons you have.
would you agree with that statement?

…
btw i answered your question “because you asked”.
it would be nice if you could answer mine.

Fortuna.7259:

Avatar.1923:

Fortuna.7259:

Avatar.1923:

another player who didnt do the content an is complaining..
i played fotm from 1 to 20.
i NEVER had to “stop” because i was missing gear, i just got the gear as i progressed….

What? 20 is where the gear gating begins…

somewhat, yes.
but going pas 20 doesnt really give you more reward.
you can get all the rings and backpack etc by doing 20 an less.
20+ is for players looking for ultra challenging encounters. thats all. for “fun”.

When did “doesn’t really” give you more reward come into it?

I can see from your posts here that you aren’t even responding to what people are discussing, but rather something else entirely. Good day.

what you want me to tell you?
yes, fotm lvl 20 is imo the place where the gear gating begin.
i agree with you. o_O

seriously, i was pushing the discussion further! clearly you cant. so good day.

Calae.1738:

You’re still reinforcing his point.

The dailies are now designed to make you do what the developer wants you to do instead of what you want to do.

In other words they’re trying thier best to find ways to keep people playing by steering them towards things they don’t enjoy.

Personally, I think this is going to backfire on them.

do what you want to do.
unless you want the reward so badly that you need to do it, but that’s unhealthy i think.
no content is gated, no rewards are “necessary”, just set yourself a different goal…

OP;

if, you feel that you cannot complete the daiy in 1h, its because you dont need to finish it yet, you are not at the “casual endgame”.

dailies are the casual player’s endgame.

and those 100+ gold stuff are the hardcore’s endgame (dailies for them is their morning coffee).

laokoko.7403:

Avatar.1923:

and all of that is needed to enjoy the game?

no.

its needed if you are “dedicated” and enjoy that type of, hardcore playing.

Apparently for me, because there isn’t anything for me to do in the game. I’m sure Anet knows it, that’s why those items are in the game. And apparently there are many gold sink in this game, because so people can buy gem with real life cash. That’s the truth right? I didn’t design the game, Anet did. I’m just following what Anet want me to do. And apparently that’s what my friend is doing too. They farm gold everyday to buy all those things I listed.

If you don’t think I should play that way. Why do Anet introduced those in the first place. I didn’t put it there. Anet did.

I am happy that Anet does try to change though. I dont’ think doing the same 2 event over and over again is healthy. I like how Anet does try to push people to do various event now. And the introduction of guild event I’m quite happy. They are adding new content.

you can farm all you want! if you enjoy it its perfect.
i prefer 1h to do my daily and get further into map completion.
1h dungeons, 1h wvwvw.

game gives you many ways of playing it.
but if you are at the “need to farm 1000 gold stage”.
well sir, you played a lot! or are .. too smart!

either way, its all good.
but dont complain about the grind, its obvious a non randomized pve game will have it.
even if you have to play as much as a full time job to reach it.

and all of that is needed to enjoy the game?

no.

its needed if you are “dedicated” and enjoy that type of, hardcore playing.

their way is “many activities with many different tokens” instead of a super vertical hardcore raid.

imo, players who will stick to gw2 will be the one who gets into wvw and or pvp (to a certain extent, like maybe 50% of their gaming time).

people will always complain.
but nobody have a better solution.

anet handle their themepark in a quite good manner as it is now.

casuals complaining?
they arent casuals.

only people who can complain (imo) are legendary grinders.

Raine.1394:

Avatar.1923:

there is no forced grind.
you dont need “BiS” to get into any of the game content (fotm lvl 20+ aside… but hey…).
you can rock orr with your exo and probably be the best player in wvw with your exo.

do the test.
check you “ascended hp” difference. its nothing. 100-200hp??
and your dmg? 40-50 more?

geez people, wake up!
the game is vast and nearly totally horizontal!
do an alt, do pvp, wvw, guild mission, map complete, whatever!

I can help you here. Can you give me the definition of vertical progression and it’s role in game design? According to Anet, post 11/15 we have vertical progression. It’s a straightforward concept. Can you explain it by defining it and describing it’s function?

there is a vertical progression. but i dont feel that the “gear” will “gate” the content.
will you be 2-3% better ? maybe.
but you can still do whatever you enjoy without a gear gate once you reach 80.

Circling Skies.1872:

I’m tired of them saying repeatedly that Vets and Champs have had their loot drop fixed and I kill a Champ and get absolutely nothing, not even trash trophies. THAT is what is kitten me off the most about all of this. Killed Jormag to get my now daily chest from him and got ALL Blues. Hurray!!!

then kill regular mobs?

dunno what to tell you… im no farmer/grinder myself.

ok.

its funny

problem is Anet servers/maps cannot support too many people in wvw; its gonna be 3hours wait….

lets see how they handle wvw and players demand once they roll out the new update, then we will see if its time for them to brin more people in.

Fortuna.7259:

Avatar.1923:

another player who didnt do the content an is complaining..
i played fotm from 1 to 20.
i NEVER had to “stop” because i was missing gear, i just got the gear as i progressed….

What? 20 is where the gear gating begins…

somewhat, yes.
but going pas 20 doesnt really give you more reward.
you can get all the rings and backpack etc by doing 20 an less.
20+ is for players looking for ultra challenging encounters. thats all. for “fun”.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Minion of Vey.4398:

I’ve always considered champion mobs the most boring part of the game.

No real challenge, they just take a long time for no real payoff.

If the game just had text saying “champion mob!” and it alt tabbed you for 60 seconds, the experience would be the same.

Well, in the sense of me being on the ground with “Return to Waypoint” on the screen? Yes It would be the same, just cut out about 10 minutes of dodging and healing.

Avatar.1923:

@tobias
true,
maybe im just not that type of player.
i play casually, get my 1 gold per 2 hours, spend 10$ to buy gems every month (imo they deserve it), and i happen to have a smooth and interesting progression curve with gold and laurels and ecto all comin up together.

I do just about all of that except buying Gems. And if I could afford to do it, I . . . probably would, in all honesty, for a few months until I reached everything I wanted to. (A couple extra character slots, full bank tabs, and the occasional key.)

well, i work 40h+ a week, and 10$ a month (a McD’s supersized combo less and eat a bowl of rice with vedgie 1 day per month) is ok for me. saves me from the “grind” that i dont find enjoyable.
i prefer to just enjoy the game, depending on what i feel like doing with my gametime.
time is money

Hexgame.4802:

Joshiasi.2840:

There are also other ways of obtaining ascended accessories. You can also attain them by doing guild missions and just save up the currency to buy them.

Its not like people are just forced to do dailies to attain the new ascended gear.

The majority of people actually are forced to do dailies to obtain these. Not everyone is in a huge guild. Not every guild has a play schedule where ALL of there members are on at the same time to do the missions.

if not in a big guild and not doing wvw, you dont really need the gear anyway.
youll do fine without it.

its all cool.

id MUCH rater anet focus on improving the event$champions fights and the encounters and the pvp/wvw to make them as much fun and intense as possible.

just giving us gated content “need that item for next month update” and then grind the same dungeon for the whole month…
not for me.
this is diablo 3.

@tobias
true,
maybe im just not that type of player.
i play casually, get my 1 gold per 2 hours, spend 10$ to buy gems every month (imo they deserve it), and i happen to have a smooth and interesting progression curve with gold and laurels and ecto all comin up together.

Flamenco.3894:

purpleskies.3274:

Flamenco.3894:

bpphantom.8243:

Flamenco.3894:

It’s optional. If you have exotic you are fine. Ascended is for players who a little bit more but it’s not necessary. What’s so hard to understand about this concept?

Exotics are no longer BiS. New end-game content will be balanced around Exotics being the minimum requirements. Ascended will be the norm and the batch after Ascended will be the “good to haves”.

Do you work for Anet or are you just assuming that will happen? On what basis are you assuming that?

FotM already works that way. It is balanced off having ascended, exotics will only get you so far. So clearly that is the direction they are heading.

Fractals is an exception. Where else in the game is ascended gear a gate?
FotM has fractal relics that you can trade in for ascended gear precizely because you will need ascended gear to proceed, if not effectively, at all. Assuming that Anet will decide that ascended gear will be the new basis for most of ‘end-game’ content is quite absurd.

another player who didnt do the content an is complaining..
i played fotm from 1 to 20.
i NEVER had to “stop” because i was missing gear, i just got the gear as i progressed….

Joshiasi.2840:

I think that what Anet was trying to implement is for the casuals who can’t play longer hours as semi to hardcore players do to be able to catch up in terms of gearing progression.

It does add up to many people but for others who can only log in like 1-2 hours a day or less, its a pace that they can keep up with other fellow gamers.

too bad for them!
because they played 500-1000h hours less than an hardcore since launch, they have -200hp and/or -50dmg.
in pve? who cares…
in wvw? ok, “maybe”.
in pvp? doesnt matter.

casuals are fine.

game progression is smartly done.

there is no forced grind.
you dont need “BiS” to get into any of the game content (fotm lvl 20+ aside… but hey…).
you can rock orr with your exo and probably be the best player in wvw with your exo.

do the test.
check you “ascended hp” difference. its nothing. 100-200hp??
and your dmg? 40-50 more?

geez people, wake up!
the game is vast and nearly totally horizontal!
do an alt, do pvp, wvw, guild mission, map complete, whatever!

im ok with not being rich too.
yeah, the regular players could get a little improved gold income.

but really… what do you need gold for “that will change your playstyle/power that much”?

basically, getting sigils, runes etc, but you can still use good ones and wait a bit to get top ones. its not like you re nothing without it.
and basically, i find that skills is much more important.

How many times, did i see a dude in t3 cultural and legendary having a hard time to jump or dodge?
geez… they probably spent way too much time facerolling some farmable content….

its very hard for a themepark game to make the game only about the “fun” and not only the “loot”.

personnally, i dont like when bunch of people are “waiting” at events or world boss to zerg them.
its quite the gamebreaker.

i agree with the game taking steps to make it less farmable, as long as they are able to still bring people once in a while to these maps/events.

but “farm spots” were just… bad

just play and youll get your gear in due time (+ the stats are not that much better, granted its better, but not OP if you miss 1 or 2 ascended pieces or some +4 infusions!)
i actually somewhat think the game is trying to slightly discourage “farming”.

laurels are not “farmable”.

to me its great.
gold is still farmable, but really, the only people who farm it seem to be the minority of ultra hardcore grinders/farmers that are ok with spending 2-3 hours killing mobs, to get a legendary.

its ok, the game gives them something too!

gw2 killed all competion between players in pve.

for better or worse.

(imo there need to be some, a few, element that indicate “this guys good”, but i can live without it i guess)

darkace.8925:

Casual Player = someone who enjoys a game for the gameplay.
Hardcore Player = someone who feels compelled to obtain the best items, complete the achievements, climb the leaderboards, etc.

One can be a hardcore player despite only playing an hour or less a day just as one can be a casual player while playing a great many hours each and every day.

im casual.
i dont care for the legendary grind
i play for fun. and after 400h i still have content left to do!!
aside from a few dungeons i dont really repeat content nor do i “farm” orr.

i think im the majority.

^

loot aint that important to enjoy the game at a healthy level.

Collin took the PR, and honestly, doing a fair and honest job so far. admitting mistakes/delays etc on top of the marketing speeches and community cooling.

nice work dude.

i dont think loot should be that good for this event, as its mostly a auto attak facerollZzz…

put the best reward chances in risky endeavours!

^
why do you need gold?
to become legendary?

1. i love this option, keep walking while using my left hand for cigarette (im lefty).

6. seriously, L2dodge…. its very responsive.

7-8. who cares ? lol

9. true, better be safe than sorry.

probably because this game is not designed to be farmed.

^

exactly.

if you “love” to grind, then its fine.
but gw2 doesnt force it upon you to experience the content.

im just responding to farmers complainers…

happy grindin’ ya all !

GW2 is AMAZING, until you start grinding.

lvl up to 80, do the story + story mode dungeons, do some world events/temples, do all dungeon explorable paths 1-2 times each, maybe a dozen of fractal runs.

geez; that 300h+ right there!
the game gives you that AND pvp/wvw for a box price.
this is one of the best rpg ever.

if you guys want to grind and grind…
complain at yourself, not the game.

if you feel like you re really not getting enough loot, its because you reached endgame.
grind dailies/fractals for ascended but for gods sake, are you really gonna farm…. farm what? a virtual item that’ll take you 500 (ouch) hours? please…

are we playing diablo 3 ?

i never mind whos in my party.

but if we have 2 or more engis, we usually wipe.

completing maps, vistas etc is fun for me.
i spend half of my playtime “exploring” tyria.

its slower paced, i can take breaks, listen to npc and smell the roses.
its cool too.
i dont “stress” or “rage” because i dont figure out a vista right away…
i like to stop and think, and i guess i m more used to that because older computer games had those puzzles or whatever else (sierra games!!) that could take forever to figure out!

so a gw2 vista ? pure fun for me! and it gives xp

this game isnt really based on “loot” anyway…
its there, its useful as a slow progression system, but by no mean you need or should farm tyria…

proof of that are the new laurels; they are not grind based.

im just curious as to what he means by “unintentionally restrictive for some”.

i mean, dmg dealer? dmg taker? redheads? asuras?

he probably prefer not to say it so people dont ask for a “payback”, but i m still curious!

got 2 in 15 runs.