Guild Wars 2

Bottom line is that ele nerfs shouldnt be lifted of course..but if things are gonna stay as they are now they may as well reverse all ele changes for the last 4 patches :P

DiogoSilva.7089:

Whoever here thinks that elementalists are terrible because of nerfs will be very shocked if someday our instant-burst build gets nerfed.

I think you are seeing this from only 1 angle..Of course it has to do with the huge nerfs that happened.If ele still had rtl at 20 sec cd it would still see play as far point assaulter.
If ele still had mistform heal he wouldnt die to a necro that easily.If signet wasnt nerfed so much in so many ways eles 1vs1 potential wouldnt as low as now..etc etc
What im saying is that nerfs like the cleasning water one make no sense now that some things have become so strong.The prenerf ele would feel a lot more balanced in this meta than it was back then when it comes to mobility( comapred to engi,thief,warrior) ,cond removal against necro ,healing and stunbreaks against warrior stunlock etc ..perhaps not when it comes to instant burst but i really doubt arcanes are gonna stay like that and when they get nerfed it would be truly no reason to bring ele

And btw those nerfs were mostly pvp nerfs and didnt happen in pve world..so i dont understand why you think pve eles have taken over this topic?For them healing,cond removal nerf never happened

Finally this came up!!The problem is that anet nerfed ele so hard which was justified in THAT meta..And then they went and buffed so many things in so many levels.
Then the condi meta happened and found an ele with lowest health in game ,survival based on healing which was heavily nerfed and also nerfed cond removal in water line..
I personally feel like i have turned from a 1vs1 beast into a 1vs1 noob against anything thats used atm (when played by players on their main char :P )..And dps ele is just the result of making sustain ele useless in this mess of cond spam.

Its also really important to notice how signet of restoration is VERY weak now.They nerfed its healing by 20% and then they also removed the healing from dodge rolls in evasive arcana and earth 2 on scepter.Thats so much loss of sustain that ll make you cry when you calculate it down

cheshirefox.7026:

i’d prefer it without the auto-target.. also,
i’d appreciate it if ride the lightning and fiery rush {#4 fiery greatsword}
weren’t lock on target or find random target

so many times i have simply veered off using these skills
they are useful for evasion as much as they are attack, to me
i saw an elem running by the one time, and rtl at a right angle into some mob
just said to myself “yeah, that happens”

to avoid this i’ve been 1{making sure nothing is targeted
and slamming my camera into the ground before activating
or 2{hope there Is a mob off in the distance that i can target

to me, having these skills like this makes as much sense as burning retreat being an auto-target

i can only imagine these skills are tuned for facerolling pvp
sometimes i get lazy and “awh man, i wish it would just hit the stupid thing For me”
but for the most part, i’d rather try skill and work it manually

disable autotargetting (option on the menu)?? there you go rtl and fiery rush to wherever you want :P

stof.9341:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Agreed. Also remember skyhammer will be in the rotation. I really dont want to play this against everyone’s skyhammer build with so much cheese. Same with spirit watch. I want someone to queue their normal builds and adapt to the environment. That shows skill more than the other way round.

You know which map it is when you are asked to enter from the mists the first time anyway. You can probably switch to an skyhammer specialised alt already even with a lock.

Wait wont it be completely random after next patch?

Jax.5261:

Make it so it isn’t locked up until the match begins but you also can’t see your enemy until it begins, don’t open the gate and don’t show them on the scoreboard

With this idea there is NO downside to anybody’s point of view, this is of course the best and most obvious way to go about this problem (which is also the reason the complete opposite was implemented).

Well maybe give us a proper roster chat or even an interface!? So that we can disguss our builds and strategy before the match starts.
The problem with your suggestion is that people are still allowed to pick builds depending on the map which wont promote usage of all around builds.

Allie Murdock.8152:

No, we’re not banning Asuras.

I love you! Although i wouldnt mind having my asura look as kitten as it looked in SAB

On soloq ive seen..mesmers attacking far against engis/necros/spirit rangers ,guards attacking enemy capped mid solo against 3 people, teammates winning mid and then rushing far dying and losing everything in a few minutes..
Theres also this hero mode player that thinks its a good idea to fight outnumbered or the one who decides he is gonna push far the whole time while not running the class for it..Thing is that those players force outnumbered fights against their teams and they don even realise it..And at the end you see comments like “you guys suck i took far 3 times free capped” or " where the kitten are my teammates" when that guy engaged hero mode without waiting for anyone..I really dont get it..do they expect to 1vs3,dont they realise that those killed players are gonna respawn and they need to disengage,dont they get that they cant 1vs1 some things ?? :P

edit:I forgot to mention..There is also that player with a direct damage build that tries to solo enemy guard on a capped point the whole match

Well yesterdays matches showed to me that cc would have more chances if they were rolling with spiritranger :P
Mogwow was so easily shutdown and his “1shot combo” they tried so many times from stealthed was countered pretty easily..
Id say your best chance is bombs engi ! As many skills, only more tools ,more room for mistakes in mid and lower tier of play through higher health pool,strong healing and self rezz and also decent ranged damage through burning..High skill cap but i really doubt its that hard to pick up :P

@Sorrow the topic phantaram about necro has nothing to do with him wanting to lower the competition of other teams using one or gain ANY personal benefit from it ..as you probably know he already had made the switch to necro himself and sticked to that throughout the tournament even after the (minimal) nerf to him by hotfixing dhuumfire.
If he feels his ele is not as viable anymore and that some classes are way too strong he has every right to say so..But dont think that any of the top teams especially in the future would have any (non solvable) problem changing comp and followqing the meta in a matter of weeks of adapting…
People think that tp is affcting balance changes..and yet 2 members were forced to drop their favourite classes after getting beaten up repeatedly by teams that followed the meta earlier..If it was for tp mesm and dps ele would still perform good enough but they dont, i think !

On the other side..chill an elementalist and watch him cry waiting for his water to come back at 1/3 the time it should

Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046:

S
Ranger
Thief (A)

A
Guardian (S)
Mesmer

B
Warrior (A)
Enigineer (A)

C
Necromancer (B)

elementalist??
the list is way off btw :P

Also im gonna make a petition to make phanta go back to ele..Things just dont feel right when watching him play necro !!

Someone tell this guy about s/d plss :P

So now necros are balanced??? Lol ..

Romek.4201:

dont think they banned cause he bashed the patch but for the “bringing an firearm to the tournament”

even mc donalds would ban him would he say he come tomorow with a firearm^^

thats just not fun

Lol..i heard that in the context it was said..It was obviously a joke.
He was always too much opiniated and thats probably just an excuse.They dont want someone spreading the truth about the real state of the games balance and features so much?? Anyway..I guess anet is still a company afterall :P
You might have the developers here spreading kind words about how they listen to the community and love their game and cute things like that but in the end its all about money and they need the positive look as much as possible.

My point is..i cant believe that an anet guy listened to this and thought"omg we need to protect ourselves from this guy" .If they wanted they could easily pretend that it never happened..

Wtf all it takes for anet to ban a top player is a patch bashing??
wow..just wow.Patch was an unbelivable pile of kitten anyway.I dont even care for the guy but i feel bad now

But this boon is supposed to favor ANYONE that is invested on low health and high toughness wiht high direct damage mitigation.
There is a reason why vitality doesnt affectt heal
And also your number are way imbalanced.So you ask an extra 1k heal per 10 sec for warrior compared to guard/ele/thief while he also starts with higher health and all that with zero investment on healing power.Thats more than the benefit of the healing rotation the above classes get with a bunch of healing power..Its just imbalanced!!

Daecollo.9578:

DevO.9854:

I’m not sure why you should heal for more if you have a higher health pool, the advantage itself is that you start with more health why should you also have more health regen?

The classes with the lower health pool have ways to mitigate tons of damage that more then make up for there lower health.

The classes with more health have different kinds of defense, but why should they suffer lower base healing?

Regeneration is a boon, and all boons should fairly effect classes the same. Thief/Guardian/Elementalist take less damage then Necromancers/Warriors, so naturally regeneration should heal them for more to compensate.

You dont undertand ,do you? Higher health should not give you higher sustain just more room initially at the fight.This is frankly the worst suggestion i have ever read.
And no thief/guardian/elementalist dont take less damage that necro/warrior.
I believe you missed how the last patch made the necros tank nuclear bombs with their ds .
And no.. you as a warrior should never have to avoid healing power when building for sustain.Warriors are not some kind of poor puppies that need special protection,especially not something as strong as what you suggest.

You basically ask for soldiers to provide more regen heal than clerics?? :O
Or the benefit of extra regen applies only to base hp so its a warrior benefit only?? :P

Archaon.6245:

Phantaram forced to run necro is also scary imo..something really wrong here…

Why wouldnt he..The benefit of running his dps ele build was good burst,decent sustain damage and team support.When you have the condi bombs around the support part is going out of the window..
His good aoe prot uptime means nothing,hes 2 aoe ond removals every 10 sec are not enough,his heal is stopped by the so many poison sources around and his burst gets hardcountered by weakness (lol at 400 hits from arcanes ).
Not only that but he will lose 1vs1 to good s/d thief,cant kill spirit ranger/guard,melts to good engi and gets butt kitten d by any semi decent necro..thats pretty much all thats being run in like all levels of play.Thats what im seeing in almost all my soloq games now too
He might be able to still run his build though if his team already had necro.

Its true though..the only conclusion i get from this video is eles burst is in dire need of nerf.
I mean god.. 9 button presses in less than a second for instant melee single target damage damage is definately a priority compared to lets say 1200 range undistinguishable massive huge aoe cond pressure of necro.
And its certainly more importtant than the fact that necro autoattakcs a mesm once and eats half his hp pool

Bas.7406:

Shar.3402:

Follidus.8027:

didn’t you guys know that knockbacks remove all deathshroud? idiotheads need to stop stirring the pot.

jeez, should have known that updraft would kill necros with full DS by making them panic and press their F1 button!

Two comments that completely miss their point in their attempt to feel superior. Using a knockback on a Necromancer who is in death shroud, knocks the necro out of deathshroud for 10 seconds. It doesn’t remove the LF gained, nor does it actually kill a player. It simply puts deathshroud on cooldown.

If you use a knockback and the player is not in Death Shroud we can pop Death Shroud just as an Elementalist can switch attunements. But and here is the key phrase you are missing IF THE NECRO IS ALREADY IN DEATH SHROUD then a knock back and I believe a stun and but not dazes will knock the necro out of death shroud and place it on a cooldown.

i cant understand this post..someone explain pls

vicious.5683:

Remove necro, put an ele with the same build with mist form.
Now do the exact combo against the other ele in mist form.
What do we get? Zero damage on a build with high dps.
Double standard? I doubt it. It’s just a nonsensical whine

An ele cannot kill an entire team from 1200 range,an ele cannot use skills while in mistform..Of course its different.Each class cannot have both high defence and high offence especially in case of necro whos damage is broken as kitten.

Dear Sharp? Should i hope that i ll stop watching double and triple necro teams after pax is over??Thats all i want to know

Let a new meta evolve??A meta of pew pew and throwing aoe from 1200 range?
Adapting in this game is the easiest thing to do btw.Just 5 min story and you are ready to aoe from 1200 range aoe aswell.It is NEVER a matter of adapting especially with how easy current meta builds are..Honeslty this is getting stupid at medium level of play and soloq .Im pretty sure at top its even worse

Funny thing 1: Look the damage phanta got from retal !!
Funny thing 2:Phanta wasnt even on weakness ! :P

What about focus..focus is fine,staff is fine.They see their uses in other game types!!
Ele is fine the dominant builds are now balanced and probably heading towards the mesmer way..everything is fine ..Lol

And i wondered why i saw phanta as a necro sailormoon chick in the mists :P

Omg they just give and give and give and give and give…like they are capable of balancing what classes can already do

Are you sure you want to fix it before you nerf necros?? :P

Interpret Interrupt.3824:

DiogoSilva.7089:

ensoriki.5789:

Mesmers, Eles and thieves with no traits?
Sounds like Engineers win.

Maybe, maybe, but it would be interesting to see mesmers with weaker phantasm spam, no clone on dodge spam nor shattering without clones; or elementalists without a buttload of effects each time they press a key to use a cantrip. It wouldn’t be balanced, but it could be worth experimenting.

I imagine that the game is balanced to first order around no traits. It has to be, else all balance would be relative to certain builds. It is most likely beta damage was toned on several builds and such. Because without traits it was still very strong.

All balance IS relative to traits and certain builds..have you tried playing no arcana elementalist for example ? :P
Basically anet has shown clearly that they intend to do everything to balance around the strong builds no matter the concequences

hrkljus.1243:

This is actually a really good question. Why isn’t it a simple 25% damage reduction or something?

It would be great if a dev could elaborate on that.

25% would actually be a good nerf over how it is now effectively making crits do 1/4 of their damage if you got high crit dam

900 damage with firegrab..on a burning target! On my 30 air ,sholar runes,valks elementalist..Im not joking.Enemy might have been on prot too
Dear Anet necro is broken,engi is too strong,s/d thief is lame,spirit ranger is adisgrace to our intelligence ..AT LEAST FIX kittenING WEAKNESS

All would be so good if you didnt need 30 arcana for everything..When will they see this?

The current meta feels like im walking on a minefield and im ready to explode to condies:P

Ultima.8673:

play an offele make that earth into air combo , press 9 buttons within 2 seconds with proper positioning, timing …. and compare that to the s/dthief. what i wan either nerf the damage of sdthief or the survivability of it or better change the mechanic make it more skillfull..

You can squeeze a quick phoenix there if you run with fresh air.Put air on cd go earthquake, flash switch to fire phoenix arcane,refresh air by critting completely bypassing global attunement cooldown ,air and air spells all combo under 1 second !
Have fun..ele is a wonderfull class
edit:others can press 3 as much as they want ..lol

DiogoSilva.7089:

Protection is pretty good at weakening your opponent’s burst, and depending on the context, Stability and Aegis can be as well. Besides, burst has been getting toned down regurlarly with the quickness nerf among others, so at the current state, I don’t think the risk at breaking the game is high. What can truly break is the condi burst and the aoe spam, imo.

The funny thing is that i made a post about necro/engi and when i asked how i can 1vs1 necro effectively the responce was ..dodge all his marks.Since marks have same casting animation you need to try to dodge as much as you can when you see him on staff casting those kittens..Imagine if i couldnt dodge..BAM he fear chains me and im dead or i earthquake +flash him +Arcanes +updraft combo and he is dead .
Point is there are a lot of things that need to change in this game for something like that.And imho vigor and normal endurance regen is fine.Cloth classes need it if they gonna play something else than boon/heal spam.Its only some builds on some classes and traits that have nothing to do with vigor

DiogoSilva.7089:

You also have plenty of stun breakers, boons, conditions and other active defenses to deal with burst.

About condition burst, that’s just broken and will need to be fixed as well. The combat shouldn’t be balanced around broken setups. :P

Until burst and condition damage is being fixed i think im gonna keep my dodges.
Besides no boon is gonna save you and active defence skills have massive cooldowns.
My point still stands..this game needs slower pace not faster ending fights

Vigor allows 1 dodge per 4 sec.Without vigor you have only 1 dodge per 8 sec after the initial 2 and you want to tone those down? Weakness negates vigor totally.
Theres a lot of burst in this game and now a lot of condi burst too.Why cut off defence across all classes when offence in all forms is so strong?How is this gonna slow the pace of the game where people would fall like flie in teamfights to the second cc coming in their face..
There are no healers in this game! Toning down dodge will NOT slower the pace ,it will actually increase it and also remove skill.Tone down evade skills instead

Conan.8046:

On Engineer – There’s more than one build and if you choose to run without a stun break who’s fault is that? Engineer has plenty of them…hell even elixir gun has one.

Those poor engis..No stunbreaker for them.They are cursed with running with a self /team rezz..Or a 20 sec rtl with blast finisher
I can feel their pain

1)Make cond removal use lifo system or priority based on damage over time
2)Less passive cond application,less passive cond removal
3)Less instant attacks (including the boring double arcane ele)

TheOneNOnlyGeneralBama.9586:

Well this has to be the first , im wondering have anyone made a QQ thread about rangers having pets…now thats blasphemy

Burning is not the mechanic of encro or engi…are u ok?
Btw there have been a LOT of threads about rangers pets ingeneral if that counts:P

Manijin.3428:

You’re complaining about burn damage. Not tons of conditions getting stacked (which can be easily cleansed), not about getting a huge stack of bleeds which just wrecks you: Burn damage.

Sorry. Either get a bit tankier, or avoid more hits. I mean, you’re an ele. The only class harder to pin down with this stuff is Thief. Mesmer, sometimes. I’m a warrior, and I don’t mind the burn damage. >_>

As you know bunker ele is dead.Far point pressure is done 10 times better by bombs engi.Thats the why every ele now runs dps cause its the only strong option for the benefit of the team.This build has 1 cond removal on water switch,1 from dodging in water and 1 from cleasning water with 40 sec cd.Phoenix also removes but you never use it this way its just a bonus.
I dont know what you are used to playing but i’d like to overcome the drawbacks of my build by skill.I can stand the massive terror cond bombs of necro,or the bombs and pistol condition of engi.
What really stucks in my head and makes me sorry for this game.. is kitten like unavoidable 5 k passive damage through burning covered by poison sigil,instant knockbacks/fears and mechanics like selfrezzes that while counterable require too much more work for my end in relation to the users end.
Thats all..

edit:Of course the same applies to passive cond removal and effects in general.
I also hope there was some normality in removing the condies..
I ve tried timing my cond removal after they proc burning or used ft toolbelt only to see it removing some random crap like 2 stack of bleeds or vulnerability and im left with massive burn and nothing to do about it..

Graendall.4765:

I tried S/D 0/30/0/10/30 in WvW..my stats are a bit mixed//Berserker Scepter..Soldier dagger..Knight armor with Knight/Cavalier/Berserker and one Celestial trinket..all in all i had 2603 armor..3k Power..41% crit chance and 65% crit dmg..Anyway don’t pay much attention to my armor.

What i wanted to say is that,the build is very powerfull….there is literaly no time for the enemy to react as Air attunement is constantly up…the amount o fburst is insane compared to D/D..it really pales in comparison.I wouldn’t be surprised if it gets nerfed..

Also i would like to ask..has anyone noticed that when you switch to Air..the lightning bolt may fall on 5 targets around you?…am i delusional?..truth be told i do not see it always proc on 5 people

Maybe its some kind of proc from your sigils like geomancy or fire?Its single target for me

Conan.8046:

Charging in with a dodge is about the worst suggestion anyone could have made. Really and what you think would happen when the dodge end in the middle of all those marks and the necromancers start attacking? Even if it was 3v3 or 3v4 charging into that is a suicide option.

Or the necros wont have every mark recharged and ready to be used again.. lol
“Soloq” is 40-50 % necros and yet no everything is fine
QQ

Mammoth.1975:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Magnetic_Wave
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phoenix
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ether_Renewal
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cleansing_Fire
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Water
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cleansing_Wave
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Healing_Rain
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cleansing_Water
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cleansing_Wave_
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Evasive_Arcana
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stop_Drop_and_Roll

Seriously, you have to be trolling right? You play an ele. You can remove 5 conditions every 10 seconds without even touching your bar.

Oh wow!those things didnt even cross my mind..Too bad there are all in different weapons,require 30 points in water and 30 in arcana and utilities that are plainly bad..signet of water?? :S
And honestly if i run with ether renewal against an engi im asking to die
Point still stands.Is it healthy gameplay having the strongest condition in the game on an unavoidable proc?In case of the engi only requiring 10 points investment?
Do you feel good knowing that you will eat something as strong as that and that theres nothing you can do? Theres a reason bombs engi and necro are so strong 1vs1 atm and i dont think its l2p issue.How do you l2p against a proc !!?
How do you dodge 4 marks all looking the same?? How to dodge instant knockback/fear? Come on ..dont tell me i have to get every cond removal option i have to stand against those classes.This is not about adapting..this is madness :P

butch.8136:

Get energy sigil and dodge moar. :p

Omg how did i not think of this!! Ty
….

So im dodging repeatedly when they use staff?How many times do i do that cause as far as i know i can only do it 2 in a row :P
Anyway I know what they use ..and what they do.But my point is that their burning proc is enough to give a massive edge against me.And thats unavoidable
Im not the guy asking for nerfs but i would feel better knowing that after i lost to that necro,it was cause i didnt avoid his kitten.Not because i was at 5 k hp and he got a burning proc

So i main ele (10.8k base hp) and after the conditions uprise lately im trying hard to adapt.
Have an engi on my own and know every skill it has and have played against necros aswell and know their spells in fotm build
The thing is that as hard as im thinking about it i cant see how im supposed to avoid/dodge an unavoidable proc.The necro ,engi just has to autoattack me and he has potentially eaten half my hp while cond removal ,as limited as it is in 1 traitline, it also seems random rng and its nowhere near enough.
Only option is to burst them hard and hope its over soon enough.But that is not a good option even though it can work occasionally..
So my point is.Can anyone help L2P against these things i mention in the title? Stacking cond removal just to make up for their passive burn proc if you want a sustain fight with them doesnt seem to work.You just get overwhelmed a bit later..

Something irrelevant but..is it only me that thinks fresh air can work wonders with d/d too?
Its the only weaponset which has an autoattack that can like .. kill a person alone and its on air.

I had the same attitude with my ele back in the days.Everyone was screaming of how op its survivability was but i was shocked since i could theorise a lot of counters such as burst after water,when not on prot,chill after water,cc his heal etc..
But when it came to practice and i was against an ele those things rarely worked the way i imagined and there were nowhere near as easy as what he was doing to outsustain my attacks.
Same here..You cant afford to move off point in a 1vs1 against the engi,you cant afford to save your only high cd knockback to push him off his selfrezz,you cant go in thinking that you will dodge all of his instant knockbacks,you cant afford to dedicate your whole cond removal options just to mitigate the damage from 1 of his trait and 1 utility both having very low cd in comparison..
I think it needs a big deal of maturity to be able to clearly see the big picture of things ,especially when your favourite class and playstyle thats 90% of the reason you love the game is at stake there

Tbh the canon needs to be very strong..if you degrade it to another treb the map will lose.It definately cant be dodgeable with that huge telegraph.
Imo you need to take away some the importance of cc on the map.Like make it harder to knock people off map but not impossible

Choops.3710:

^ well said. Anything’s OP if you just sit in the area of where all the damage is happening.

Ok lets assume that you move off point and lose it.You still have to kill him while he applies burning from range through the trait and ft toolbelt skill.Thats like 20 points worth of it and you cant do anything and he can pretty much disengage at will..Chaining blast finishers into smoke bomb is not rocket science..
I just tell what i see ..atm there arent other viable builds with that much utility and that much options. If he loses against a class its pretty much l2p issue for him in my book unless he faces good necro or builds that nobody uses atm(cause they generally suck).And also that 1vs1 advantage comes with good support with rezz,cc,aoe cond pressure,combo healing ,team stealthing..
We just come to the situation that the better option for your team so that it can negate what that engi is doing and also not lose a lot in every other area is ..to bring an engi too.Just like it was with eles for so long .
Super’s team is the only one managed to beat TP with a good ratio and they use an engi mirroring what teldo does or staying at close just to 1vs1 him.Most top teams already use an engi of that kind and the rest are probably looking for one!
We ll see how it shapes up in the future:P