Guild Wars 2

^no im sorry but he played badly.Despite the fact htat he didnt dodge it or didnt initiated in air which would give hime access to updraft but in water which took away his cond cleansing he could still try and use cleansing wave.Or he could go in fire and drop a quick close phoenix in hope that he cures the immob when it returns.
Even if he couldnt think of these things(which an exp ele does) he shouldnt have immediately waste INSTANT skill when he can blow it at the very end with no worries :P
Not to mention that the after game wasnt that good anyway..
(im not bashing phantaram btw ..i watch his stream and he can play much much better than that lately..not to mention he doesnt run bunker )

Arheundel.6451:

Interpret Interrupt.3824:

kostbabis.8791:

Interpret Interrupt.3824:

I would rather the warrior get 10k hp and be able to recover like an ele and remove condi on dodge rolling and leave a fight when they want to, with a skill that covers more ground than 1200 range and is not affected by slows.

good for you!most people here want the 10k hp class to lose the ability to recover +escapes instead..

The problem is that the game’s philosophy is that warrior is correct. Therefore it will probably never be touched, but everything around it will be adjusted accordingly is a slow fashion

Then even the ele one is correct, we’re supposed to be master of control..the best in the game therefore it’s logical to expect an ele to control the flow of the battle in his favour, which imply being able to disengage with ease by using powerful controll skills, furthermore we’re supposed to boast the best support skills in the game and this include healing skills…so come again pls?

-edit- great aoe dmg is supposed to be also one the benefits of playing an ele along of course being the most versatile class in the game…did I miss something?

Lol yeah the ele class description is a bit..kitten y!

^So what ?some of them are 50 so it makes up for the difference :P
Anyway firegrab effectively has at least twice the cd.I thought facing the target and being into melee range was everything i need to worry about..I mean come on anet sometimes i find landing headshots in fps easier than landing this kitten.

Interpret Interrupt.3824:

I would rather the warrior get 10k hp and be able to recover like an ele and remove condi on dodge rolling and leave a fight when they want to, with a skill that covers more ground than 1200 range and is not affected by slows.

good for you!most people here want the 10k hp class to lose the ability to recover +escapes instead..

First of all you use a yogscasts video..I mean -lol-.
They say unstready ground is blocking enemies from passing through it and if you watch the video in hd you can see clearly in the tooltip that it just applies cripple.The mobs dont pass through them cause of their crappy AI!!!
Second of all staff imo just needs a projectile and damage increase.Its a weapon that really requires a lot of skill to get the most nout of it.But theres a lot of secrets hidden here.
For example after the last patch skills like arcane power wont lose their charges if you miss.Thats HUGE !!
It means i can cast metero shower and have each meteor crit while also applying an effect cause of elemental surge trait.Also i can cast unsteady ground and if the enemy pass through it he ll get IMMOB for 5 sec while also having 2 sec cripple applied to him with every pulse.And the rate the pulse is happening is just perfect so that you dont lose any second of the immobilizes(the elem surge immobilizes dont stack so if you hit with 2 arcanes for example at same time only 1 sec of immob would be applied)

lol! is jump shot still that bad ..i thought it was improved since betas last time i checked it:P
Still it undeniably covers much more space in much shorter time than swiftness for a initial period of time.And anyway j shot wasnt my point at all!
Updraft is swiftness+ a roll.Its also a 40 sec cd skill and 1 out of 2 hard ccs for the ele d/d and s/d.Now think that you need to land a few fire spells to win in a fight (1vs1 for example) or to interrupt something important and theres no choice..you d be an idiot to use it for extra speed in almost all cases.
Im not talking about gap closers..d/d has another 2 already.Im talking about escapes of a low armor/health class thats also going to get its healing and boon uptime nerfed..
And pls anybody.. dont mention cantrip.If you want to build a burst build you have no choice other than pick arcanes..or gl landing dt for damage spikes (i dont care about bunker builds)

Penguin.5197:

Did you just compare rtl to jump shot? T_T I know it was posted some time ago but wow lol Even though j. shot isnt target only, Its so horrible as a gap closer its unfair to compare it. J.shot has a second where you just hover for no reason before you land. Maybe something similar to what jump shot suffers through could also be applied to rtl, where if nothing is hit with rtl, the ele just stops and stands there as an electric ball for a split second.

Plus to move around eles can use Glyph of Elemental Harmony, Updraft, Windborne Speed and traits like Elemental Attunement and Zephyr’s Boon

Why? do you disagree that jump shot as an escape mechanic would be infinite times better than rtl if it was target only..also see what you did there?
All that you mentioned as mobility is swiftness (which engie has in abudnace :P) apart from updraft..and no thx i need that to land 1 of my countless predictalbe 3 sec delayed skills that i have ..you know i need to do damage somehow
In short you proved my point,didnt you there ?

ah i thought we were talking about bombs and grenade pistol builds..i forgot about 100nades build :P
Still my responce to that guy was cause i felt his comparison was unfair.I know that the simple push of a 4 button iin many cases outclasses all thethings i mentioned above and is less skillfull but if you were to remove that ability like putting a target requirement then 1 class obviously falls behind a lot

^2 hard cc in the bombs build ?? 3 knock backs all aoe plus 1 daze ,stun +6 dodges in the span of 4 sec. And of course immobilize, cripple and a blind field..
As for the cond burst engie builds the burst are so much easier than for example s/d fire burst and with a shorter cooldown ..unless you expect to randomly land dt..Of course you can go with 2 arcanes and rely on earth2 ,air2 → arcanes and hope the fire skills land/crit..but then???you dont have cantrips thus you dont have escapes (if rtl dissapeared/nerfed as an escape like people want)
Imo ele damage is pretty bad cause its all conetrated into a few hard hittings spells that are too telegraphed and unreliabe in every weaponset unless d/d.
not to mention autoattacks are worst in game.So..

About the ele “far point problem” ..an ele cant take the point or neutralise by killing anyone so..
If you know where the ele is going at all or most of the time then just send a mobile class at home point..top players say “but ele forces a 2vs1 at home and even then takes time to kill”..well DONT KILL
If you follow ele ,you can prevent the cap at home and you can also join the same teamfight if decides too..so nobody benefited.
If he does decide to fight 1vs1 at your captured node then gg you win.
The only thing you need to counter bunker s/d ele is a way to resist tornado and any other means he have to decap plus the position awaraness and mobility to prevent the back cap..
So,is it l2p /lack of builds that can achieve a “bunker ele shut down” role??Or is it indeed uncounterable?

Archaon.6245:

kostbabis.8791:

ok focus on me for a second…why should we rip eles from teh fun instead of giving it to other classes.If you have to run ele forthe rtl why should we take the rtl from the ele. INSTEAD they could enhance the mobility of an other class.Engie for example could have their rifle 5 range increase,trasnsition time lowered and damage cutten to half and been give to the other abilities..
I mean seriously why take out the role of a great far point assaulter from 1 class and not just give it to more..My point is that if your problem is eles mobility and not eles survivability i think you should reconsider it.

….
….
Come on guys…i know that learning to play something else instead of your cheese cutter takes effort…but don’t try to bring bs excuses to save it

How can you say that when replying at my post man..
Also 90% of the suggestions on how to nerf the op 0/10/0/30/30 build and its variations end up nerfing more the other ele builds thus forcing eles more into that spec..
I mean rtl nerf kitten ele glass more than ele bunker since you cant play hit and run no more.Ele base healing nerf kittens up more the ele glass/dps since when you stack healing power the percentage of the initial heal is less thus you are affected less by it being lower etc..
Im scared about how the game would end up if the average forum poster got the power to change stuff by will.So that you know, the devs have structured ways of inflicting changes that are based on math as well..They cant nerf everything just because it seems unfair for you to not have as much(while you run 2 times more the base health +heavy armor warrior for example)..

^sword 2 mobility is imo at rtl level due to the low cd and max range you can achieve while you also get an evade which is amazing since you d be carrying the orb.
If you play ranger and still havent figured it out learn to be mobile :P

ok focus on me for a second…why should we rip eles from teh fun instead of giving it to other classes.If you have to run ele forthe rtl why should we take the rtl from the ele. INSTEAD they could enhance the mobility of an other class.Engie for example could have their rifle 5 range increase,trasnsition time lowered and damage cutten to half and been give to the other abilities..
I mean seriously why take out the role of a great far point assaulter from 1 class and not just give it to more..My point is that if your problem is eles mobility and not eles survivability i think you should reconsider it.

Increase the scaling of all sizes by some percentage..also increase the weapons size by a lot and make the animation more exaggerated.
As a guy that plays asura for the sake of playing the race i find banning them a very bad idea.On the other hand id love if my cool dagger would actually be visible on my char

Making it gt would mean the world.You coud directly use it as a blast on fields without needing an enemy to pass on them.You could use it for direct zoning and for area control.You could save a few of the landing sec by aiming it in advance to where the enemy goes..for exampl if he uses a leap on you use it on yourself and see THEN if he can avoid(leaps are on autopilot in the game and you cant stop them :P)
Pls anet give us a gift to make the upcoming nerf less ..painful..

well the worst case scenario..they nerf heals in addition to mobility.Eles get benched on the side for a month or 2 and then anets nerfs everything else or buffs eles.Theres also the chance people make focus and staff work again.
But in any case id love to see anet promote counters in other classes like heavy boonstriping/control or more mobility instead of this kitten circle that just degrades gameplay..
Yeah an rtl nerf like “omg i want 60 sec cd” or target only is a major playstyle nerf that kittens up other builds that nobody has problem with.
I guess thats life ..besides anet knows how to not kitten up a playstyle(like..spirit rangers :P)

Oni.5429:

Then go ahead and give the counter, kost. My team is completely capable of multiclassing, do you really think we havent tried other things t odeal with this nonsense?

No matter how we attempt to counter it it always ends up as a concession on our part somehow (example; I go phantasmal with glamour recharge, my point is safe but our teamfighting will be much worse)

But if you already are aware that specific classes can wear him down and force him to leave the point even solo then the problem must be the fact that he can use the mobility to decap and force a guy of yours to constantly stay near home point,right?
The thing is that, will that change after the nerfs?S/d bunker will still be abunker and the mobility of dagger oh will still be there.You still wont be able to take him down fast solo and he ll still force 2 people to far point.That was my point.
Im not at your level obviously but thats what i would do..

Apart from the obvious strat of having your own ele do the same thing :P
you could have another mobile class track the ele down which would mean -1 player off the team fights for you and the enemy team.If he decides to reinforce a fight somewhere so does your guy etc.So basically complete position awaraness would completely prevent the decap ..but at this point when im thinking of a guy training the bunker ele d/d cantrip ele comes to mind :P
and you have to face tornados and crap which are used in eu:P

So now that i failed being specific ( i admit it) tell me what you would change to ele bunker that would prevent the massive far point pressure he can apply?

Its interesting to mention that what Helseth(oni) talks about is the clerics s/d bunker and is completely different from the d/d you see (mostly the na folks)..
He also probably wanted to say “my current teams comp has no counters” instead of there are no counters.. :P
The thing is that ele can only be viable as a defencive ,fast roaming tank or defencive,roaming dps right now ..and apparently people think thats too good for the game.You cant make an effective ele that is not along those lines since cond eles,burst eles,glass canon eles plain suck while tank eles with no mobility are overshadowed by the guardian..
So if your problem is with the whole concept of a fast roaming tank and not JUST the effectiveness of it then we might as well delete the class and get over with it.Does anyone disagree?Is there something im missing ?

Liewec.2896:

Justin.7163:

Erm, don’t Elementalists have the weakest healing skills in the game?

try playing a warrior!
I WISH my warrior had Ether Renewal!

no you wouldnt! in spvp people dont use it anyway cause it goes in full cd if its interrupted and for 3.5 channel time it heals less than mending :P
Your hp is so big that gives the impression healing is lower when base healing of ele is actually lower in most healing spells !
You want more cond removal!!Not ether :P

^^no i expect someone to say gg man you dont play the fotm ele build or thief,your hp never fully regained,you never 1shot me you just outplayed me..I mean a rank 10-20 warrior cant possibly expect to win a rank 40 ele/thief no matter what build they are running.(those rank differences are a valid way to judge skill most of time,problems start at higher ranks)
Not to mention that if you are a good player then you shouldnt bring those builds in hot join.You do your testing there..(full bunker ele in hot join is so stupid anyway :P )
But your analogy is very far stretched as is your perception at what skill is required to do well in the classes you mentioned imo.If eles/thieves and whatever class was that op to considered a tank in the battlefield then everyone would be waving their torches in Jon ^2 faces right now
Also you havent done any comp sporst irl ,did you??People degrade you and suck the win out of you even in most balanced games..like chess!
In conclusion its the people,not the game..

NevirSayDie.6235:

Ooh, people arguing about balance! This is fun!

Engies’ rifle 5 is 700 range with a lot of mid-air hang time. Yeah, we could nerf that to be 1200 range with a target required. No problem.

would you really want that?i mean instead of buffing it by making the transition faster..
And what about the warriors,thieves,rangers..a ranger can cover almost as much distance as an rtl and 2 IA are 1800 range.Warriors rush is 1200 and is affected by slows so changing to that would be a possible nerf to rtl.And then dont forget we are talking about the lowest health/armor class.Nerfing mobility that much means that there will be no other build than bunkerish ones..Glass canon ele (if it ever existed) is now dead as well as EVERY other build that doesnt focus on pure survival.Nobody s gonna play a dps ele that is dead the moment that warrior closes the gap..
No good ways to disengage+squishiest class+mediocre damage=only bunker builds..
I thought you wanted to get rid of them.

^first many eles dont do that cause they rarely use rtl with a target at 1200..you just dont do that when you know there are..“stuff” between you or height difference.There is not l2p issue with something you cant control.People will l2p and counter targeted rtl(obviously by placing themselves in a way that youcant travel in a straight line to them) and then eles will never been able to utilise the charge at the range it was meant to be
..Then you should change warriors gs abilities,engies rifle 5,rangers sword,thiefs sb 5 etc..You need to be consistend ,dont you?? :P
Btw they are not the fastest roamers ..there are thiefs builds that are much faster especially having an obvious vertical advantage.

^bunker ele is not the valkyries one..By definition a bunker should be able to hold a point for a fair time against 2 people and valkies eles really cant..not without moving out of node.But i wanna see you run clerics and critting 4.5k firegrabs :P
That would be dope!

^d/d cant hold a point against 2 other dps builds..im sorry but you are wrong..
Dont twist the facts or believe the things you hear left and right..D/d is a defencive roamer that can burst respectably and has great group utility .
In eu what was/is still being used a lot is the clerics s/d bunker which is a far better bunker due to the second burst heal in water.
Both the valkyries and the clerics setups completely melt down against 2 of the right classes like rangers/engies/necros/mesm.
Sure you can rtl the heck out of there but then the node is lost.1 ele in a team is actually fine and manageable by most current meta compositions..
In any case if you think it doesnt take any effort to hold against to people in 40+rank pvp then well ..you should start playing more :P

Sprawl.3891:

did the cursing revolve around you playing an OP/FOTM class/spec?

and?you impy they are justified then??
pls for the love of god dont get to the point of abusing those that happen to play a dominating class at that moment..i cant even test builds in hot join anymore without an idiot starting the “ele talk”..all that while im owning his face with my super op testing 30 in air build.

And yeah red falcon you appear to be quite ignorant of the ele class as in total..
I have my thief parked in the mists when i want to find why i failed to counter one in a fight..I advise you to do the same with ele.
(If you dont have enough char slots then blame anet and their evil b2p system :P )

Red Falcon.8257:

In the current broken state there is little you can do vs D/D Ele.
It’s not really just the damage/control which you can negate, you can match their speed with the proper tools, and you can even plow through Protection and shields.
But it’s the fact they can heal massive amounts and self-rally during mist that will simply have them out-last you unless you can too heal up a whole healthbar in seconds or rally on your own.
Just wait until next patch lands, Anet is aware of this hole and will fix it.

heal massive amounts?self rally in mist form?? (wasnt that fixed :S)
Anyway theres an easy fix..Rtl distance covered affected by chill an cripple.You have a set speed thats affected my movement reduction and you just move for a set amount of time.Rtl on crippled ele would be 600 range isntead 1200.
But if we are gonna go that far i except a heavy nerf on thieves escapes..You really cant believe that you can catch a thief in an open area if he is has a functional brain and a not messed up build..
But come on Anet..whats gonna be butchered?Mobility or heals?I would hope we get to keep our mobility or else i reroll to thief..apparently their mobility/escapes is nerf proof

Ostricheggs.3742:

and make it so that ride the lightning can only be used when you have someone targeted.

Man why is it so hard to imagine how that change would destroy the class alone..Rtl is the only mobility ele has to move around the map.
You want to put the second highest mobility class in game at the very bottom with necro and mesm(d/d ele mid fight with signet heal has less swift than mesm with focus and the only saving grace is rtl).
Also rtl operates at 1200 range.In spvp the way maps are designt 90% of the times there are kitten like rocks or the “walls” of a node between you and your target.Rtl travels in a mostly straight line and still gets stuck to big objects that are blocking the way.
At last you are presented with the problem of d/d.A melee setup( with possibly nerfed heals) that would then had many ways to close the gap and fight at melee range but NONE to disengage..
Not to mention that even pure bunker builds wouldnt work since you would be as slow as a guardian (till you target someone and bug yourself ona rock) on the initial swiftness plus you would never make it to the far point before its already capped..then with no node control like guardian you can’t neutralise and the whole ele bunker due to lack of speed is completely abandoned..
That would be a sad end for the class for the builds with dagger offhand..but maybe people would flock onto staff builds again or focus.Not to mention that you would get a rebellion by the pve community assuming the changed carried over

Caffynated.5713:

Daharahj.1325:

Eles are hard to pick up but easy to master. They’re neither OH HIGH SKILL CAP or completely noob friendly.

If you think ele is easy to master, then you’re no where near mastering it.

If you can do everything in Zoose’s D/D guide then you have reached journeyman status, but there’s a lot more to learn after the basics.

Kylex.5962:

i will start ignoring comments like that due to not even showing on qp ladder.

I’m not agreeing with what he’s saying (he’s rather clueless), but saying that someone’s opinion is invalid because they don’t want to grind QP is simply wrong.

What was i saying?? pilot !read again and gear up with sarcasm understanding skills! :P
But you are right on the rest with a huge example being the same the devs.Its not uncommon to have devs suck at their own game

My god is this the first game you played??There are some global pricniples ..
If something is countered by a specific comp then it ceases to be op.How?
The countering comp is becoming popular and the countered one slowly fades out.Then when theres no need to counter that setup the other comps that were being beaten up to triple eles meta will rise up again..Then a healthy mix of the above comps will ensure that nothing(in thosecases) becomes over the top again.People will not run 3ple ele if they know theres a good chance that they ll get hard countered by second match.
You dont need to completely strip the class apart ,just small adjustments..if only there was a big population we would have passed this stage months ago..
Excuse me now im off to form a competitive team,rank up on qp and hopefully make my posts worthy of your notice !

^ wait you mean my comment or the people that say rtl should be remove..i thought it was obvious i was being sarcastic.
In either case ..why are you all so offencive in this community.Its not like it has grown big yet or super competitive either.Thank god im completely non sensitive to this crap

NoWayOuT.7841:

Guts.4967:

So everybody is running 3 ele comp, and it’s god mod in teamfight, we really need the patch to see a balance patch or what ?

Finnally someone is writing on forum about elementalists!!!! i <3 u !!!!
It’ s so boring to play against ellyes and for some obv reasons every teams run with double or triple elly and it’ s so annoying.
+1 !!!!!!

lol finally someone is writing on forum about eles??!!?Where have you been for the past month :P

^^i play ele and can counter necro /ranger
I counter them by untabbing switching to air and press 4!They dont know what him em !
but according to people rtl should be removed and i should die a miserable death..cause everyones hate eles these days..its like class racism :P

Another thing is op and another thing is requiring no skill..
Ele is kind of op but saying that its low skill floor/ceiling in relation to what is around in the meta atm you are a bit..ignorant.I mean even math wise an ele has to worry about twice as much cds and furthermore the cd of attunements.Also its whole damage is so telegaphed and avoidable.
In a PERFECT universe where ele is PERFECTLY balanced and has to work with everything he has to be as effective as other classes then by design he has a MUCH higher skill cap and skill floor..Dont fool yourself..a warrior for example is up not super hard /amazing skill class to play lol.

^^lol im not running double warrior and neither would i try it..i m just a nobody with a brain that just has a lot of spare time right now to post on the forums..
You dont get my point but be sure thats how anet should and do think.You play mesm and as far as i know only mesm(yes i know you,you dont know me! but i dont think this is an advantage in your case :P )..
I guess you would enjoy not being able to do a simple ranking paid match with a hardcore memser friend of yours in teh future.Especially when paids are the basic way of ranking yourself in this game thus the only way to feel you are having progress in getting yourself recognized etc..

haha pvp pros thinking their pvp pro needs..or i might say fail to think..
Im playing warrior(??)and my other friend is playing warrior.. so in order to do one god kitten rating tournament together one of us should reroll relearn the class,get accustomed to the mechanics and develop muscle memory and potentially change his team role.
You know this is an 8 class mmo whith classes that are more complicated than your average moba and a huge pve community thats struggling to find a reason to participate in spvp..and you suggest we make it worse!Yep cut the folks out of paids..they have hot join and frees who cares
Niiiice one

Mssg.7804:

yep, try that with eles+guardian ;/

i love this!!!Like he is gonna play alone (or only with other engies) against the eles+guardian :P
(no profession defence here ..i just found your reply funny)
But gj at still trying stuff and finding counters op in this mess.. i hope engie gets buffed/reckognized cause we should at least have the fun/complicated classes represented more to raise the overal level of the game..

Yep and my responce is: why 2+2 cant be 39 in this case?Its not like it ruins a whole model of the structure of the universe :P
Im not saying it has to be the way it is.Im just saying that theres not necessarily something bad being that way..at least not in the way you put it with your analogy with numbers.For example if they had mist form at 10 min cooldown you would probably say its bad for the ele for example to use the spell that way since he would be playing crippled for rest of game which is worse than getting a stomp in 1 team fight.I assume that in most cases 1 mist form stomping is not the be all end all dictator of the game considering there are alternatives(and also we set up 10 min cd for the example )
But then your argument about 2+2 must be 4 would still remain and you would consider it an “exploit” that needs nerfing even though in this case you assumed it must be 4 upon generalisations.
In short its their game,their rules and they can achieve balance in many ways..
But personally im good with either way i just disagree with your analogy.What you could do is prove with examples that using invuln for stomping is always or most of times a big advantage and an unfair factor at winning fights..actually it could be true in some cases.

^ You can channel and use utilies/heal with a lot invuln skills like mist form or s .
Also the same question can be reversed.Why players should be able to either both cap points /stomp invulnerable or neither cap/stomp invulnerable.Theres no restrictions like this you have to follow to keep things balanced and i already said my arguments about what are the tradebacks and why its ok.You want to finish a downed player in a kittenstorm of aoes..your choice to blow up that powerfull spell and leave yourself vulnerable to burst or find another approach(like causing your own kittenstorm of aoes)
And whats up with the pity loleles thing?You know poor up engies can do that too on lower cd right?? Right? :P :P :P

About consisteny and letting it work with buffs in storm map then i think you can see how broken that would be..One is broken and promotes bringing classes/builds that use them the other is not broken and can be countered(team wise of course) while also could be said that is giving choices to how you play the game.Invuls are not spammable skills that you can afford to waste in serious matches.

nerva.7940:

things that arent counterable shouldnt be in game. common competitive pvp sense.

But its counterable..Its countered by not getting downed :P
No seriously..Those are big cds that leave the user usually defenceless.They are not no brainers with no drawbacks and i feel bad that you fail to see that.An ele for example that used mistform is an much easier target for the rest of your team and should be set up for a burst..Assuming of course we are talking about even teamfight cause this kind of stomping makes no sence in 1vs1 and in outnumbering situations you can just say its another disadvantage of many the outnumbered team has.
The whole downed state is a big kitten you to outnumbered encounters

To be honest i dont know with what i d laugh at more..An elementalist staying in 1 attunement doing pitiful damage and dying over and over again ?..
Or an ele in a dungeon spazzing through attunements putting water in cd when nobody needs it,cutting his dps in fire at half,capping the bleed stacks with his pitiful 0 condition damage or using air cc in a boss with infinite defiant stacks ? :P

Sprawl.3891:

Tyler Bearce.3427:

Leaving counts as a loss for your rating.

when are you gonna fix tourney matches starting 5v4 and people quitting during those?

Maybe when they realise they should tell average spvp player that if he closes his game he doesnt automatically get out of the roaster..

^well a cantrip ele has 4(3+1 passive)oh kitten buttons.Runes like forge ,2 armor of earth + earths attunement prot means they have massive uptime of prot as well.Then you get traits like cleansing water and you get massive cond removal as well..theres no denial why you cant kill them alone.
Just count your stuns/immob and any burst initiator you have to his escapes and you immediately notice that in 1vs1 a setup like that it doesnt die easily regardless of hte stats.Same is with a few builds of other classes.But what can you do?
You cant directly nerf the utilities since they are part of other builds as well neither can you restrict him from having access to all of them(utilities).
What they ll probably do is lower the uptime of the boons and the scaling of healing power on skills or relocate the traits in water line and put an internal cd on some.
Also eles base healing is lowish actually..check it out for yourself.The scaling is crazy like 1:1..
But this is a teams game and most things are countered.IMO you can counter 3 eles with high boon removal ,high poison application and control like stunlock.It certainly requires more skill than just running 2+ eles yourself though :P

Well nerfs on the way so stop the pointless threads we got it
BUT running multiple classes is not something necessarily bad.If running 1 of each class was an inherent restriction to do good then the compinations of team compositions would fall down to (8,5) which is the low number of 56 (well not that low but anyway :P)
So suck it up and let people run what they feel like and dont jump on any team that runs multiple classes.
Id love to play in a team of 2 eles,2 mesm and a thief for a fact.No bunkers just coordinated bursts,super mobility and awareness of enemy teams positions!
So much fun :P

Elixir s mist form and the rest invuln like distortion are on very long cds and ensure that a glassy spec can have a chance of stomping a player in exchange of wasting a higly valuable cd..Why would you want a bunker heavy meta again??
It wouldnt change your lolele problem since there arent squishy loleles anyway for a fact.What it would reinforce is guardian/heavy bunker stale boring zzzzz gameplay
But embrace yourself !!After the d/d sustain nerf the way of focus eles with 7 sec of invuln + cantrip abudance + projectile immunity is coming to ruin your lives once again..
Muahahaha

^no man..I love this game and above all im in love with my ele.I can stand number nerfs and to be honest id more than welcome them.I really miss the days when i was owning with my ele and people were"oh amazing i thought ele was such a low life"..noawadays in hot join is more like"oh you ele,you op" with them not even managing to touch me and put me in a place i need to use my opness.
Then in tourneys everyones running 0/10/0/30/30 a build that even if i outplay by alot i cant take down in rasonably time to a non braindead player unless i turn stupid and
go full glass cannon ele.I hate those endless draws between 2 valkies eles like hell.

BUT i cant stand playstyle’s nerfs and thats what we are debating here.Thats why i still bother with this kitten..
I and a lot of people are not "pro"players.I have a lot of classes but i can only play well(and want to believe really well) ele..so im attached to him and the last thing i want is losing “fun” out of my game..

Blakey.5670:

I like the target only ride the lightning
Eles mobility is already the, up there with the thiefs with are both bunk.
Make them work for their life, just like it do.

If a fight gets out of hand as an engineer in i drop glue bomb,giant bomb, nails and run off cog shielding. A kitten more places to mess up and not just press esc 4 on a distent backround.

theres a thing or two you miss here.Engie has cc ,ele has heals and mobility to survive.
Sure its much more skillful to manage to disengage with engie in comparison to ele and imo engie has higher skill cap but lay back for a second and THINK.
Without rtl to disengage ele has nothing.Why does he have nothing?
He has nothing because his burst and his only chance to set up damage is throught the few ccs he has which are no match for engie.I need to use updraft or earth quake for burning speed or especially dt /phoenix ,i need the earth immobilise for drakes breath/ fire grab etc.
Ele doesnt have an abudance of ccs like engie and what he has is for setting up his damage.So remove rtl as escape mechanic and theres no escape for ele at all during a normal fight.People keep saying ele doesnt require skill since your heal is op etc etc..
The skill as an ele is not at surviving ..its actually at landing your skillshots and doing the most damage you can as well.
I dare you to play a s/d burst ele build with elem surge and arcanes..your opinion about what requires skills and what you need to do to do the most damage you can will change for sure..

This is frankly a waste of time..Mesmer has numerous escapes,invlun and ways to lose target with stealth.Dont be ridicoulous.If a mesmer doesnt want to die he wont die..especially in hot join where portal and illusion of life are not required and you can be as selfish as you want.(the hot join reference is made so i can justify the avsence of the 2 above skills..just in case you are ready to say hot join is useless etc..)
My point again on the post you haven read i guess is :
How can you cipple rtl so much and leave the mobility of all the other mobile classes untouched?
I rest my case here..im sorry but we are both wasting our time and i really find it weird you got to rank 38 with 183 qp without having a sence of general balance amongs the classes..Yesterday the devs said that no matter how much they are gonna nerf in NO WAY they are gonna remove the builds from the game so again dont have high hopes of so drastic changes..l2p against it.Not that hard!

Thief was just an example of a calss with high mobility and escape mechanics as the ele..
You know another class that has in good amount the above??Mesmer! :P
Also my point is that if you make rtl target only you nerf it to oblivion and this would be obvious to you if you played ele.You basically remove every escape from most eles..Its worse than doubling the cd.Not to mention that you cripple its effect as a gap closer as well since at 1200 range your enemy might position in a way a rock blocks your line or get high ground etc..so its effectively even worse at closing gaps..
No.. thx! better 1 min cd than this stupidity..Warriors rush or sword leap is not target only.Rangers sword mobility is not target only.Thiefs mobility is not target only.Engineer rifle mobility is not target only..etc etc.
Just think even d/d apart from burning speed has no other way to move fast around the map without rtl(magnetic graps requires target).Rtl doesnt change..dont get hopes up on this one friend

jokitten390:

guza.6170:

kostbabis.8791:

Really stuck them on one element?They should make you pass a small iq test before allowing you to start a new thread here

lol

But really without healing and ride the lightning ele would just be a free kill, u already get 1 shoted by a haste backstab thief as it is if your mistform is of CD or if u get imobillized and u fail to cleanse it. Our dmg is mediocre at best and we’r only able to kill stuff because theres so many glass canon unsustainable builds out there…

Oh didnt know that mobility and healpower affects your toughness and helps surviving a one shotter… you still could full heal yourself you just need more skills and canr do it so often, still better then every other class which has only 1healskill (necro, mesmer a bit, but with IP he got insta distorttion so not such a big deal)…
to argue with thief instagib is senseless since that can say almost every class…

So your problem is mobility or healing power?If they nerf healing power ele will still have a place in meta as a roamer defencive or not.If they nerf mobility that much then ele is out for good the way things are right now.You think 25 sec cd is a good spot??
What about a thief with shortbow?
2 IA at 900 range +stealth>15 sec cd 1200 gap closer.But you dont complain about thieves escapes here..Maybe cause in hot joins you mostly see hs spamming thieves that drop down like flies.In eu casuals havent even figured bs yet i swear..
Rtl is already affected by immob ,ccs area denial skills etc.Learn to use them.
If the ele has armor of earth twice during a fight up then blame that skill not the mobility..
Also to the people of that post in this thread..Attunement switch has cd which at minimum is 9.375 sec.That means that if i use rtl then switch and then come back to air and leave before the 15 sec of rtl are passed then i actulaly raise the cooldown of the skill at 20 sec +!. If i want to spamm rtl at 15 sec then i m actually kittening my rotation elsewhere.Bacially ele cds on ALL skills are effectively longer in practice depending on your rotations
Its a form of balance you fail to see initially..
Play the class if you want to learn how to counter it before proposing absurd things like what ive read.Its the least thing you can do if you want to be taken seriously.