Guild Wars 2

Rolyate.6753:

Sword leap should be, though jump shot should not (as jump shot is ground target aoe).

i dont have a warrior(cause anet decied to limit the classes at 5 slots) but ive seen people using the leap travelling at what seemed to be 600 units and this has a cooldown of 8 sec according to wiki.So i cant see why the mobility of rtl is the problem
As for engie yep im sure its not affected.But why shouldnt it if rtl is gonna get affected?Have you seen what an engie can do with elixir s as an orb carrier??

milo.6942:

Kasama.8941:

milo.6942:

you have no idea what this thread is even about.

Someone complaining that the Elementalist has a movement skill, and the Thief has none.

rtl is the only movement skill to not be affected by the orb slow

i think warrior sword leap is not too.Im cetrain tha engies jump shot is not affected as well!

I find the “you play fotm class we dont like you” a bit silly :P
If you wanna pick an ele pick an ele if you want a necro go necro..lol its a game!
Unless you want badly skill recognition and you are afraid that if a class is stigmatized as op your winning ,regardless of build you are using, will be degraded
To be honest these days even if you go triple conjure as an ele you are considered op by a considerable amount people

rtl affected by cripple/chill +20 sec cooldown is stupid.Either drop the cd massively(id say even 12 sec) or keep it the way it is.To be honest anet wont make it Be affected by slows..Why??
Because if that was the plan they would never raise the cd.

haha if rtl gets nerfed and affected by movement debuff how is this then balanced?
Gs/sword ranger was always a mobility beast.Imagine how cool are those leaps for travelling in maps if you arent slowd.And their cd makes rtl pale in comparison

well its interesting how you all avoid to say that the ele needs to start the stomp without mist form.You cant go invulnerable and then go stomp someone You need to start it then cast mist.. There here is your counter:(
Obviously Anet have thought about this and obviously the above fact means that they have already put a barrier on what you can do with skills like mist form.
That plus the whole opportunity cost argument..

hehe why do they destroy threads like this..I agree with kylex!!
I know you all hate the class but pls decide at what it should excel before making up nerf ideas and not try to cripple it at everything

^ the class is not face roll.The bunker build is faceroll
Now to op i dont find the ideas bad but really 1 thing.Why make rtl 30 sec cd when there are many 1200 range mobility skills that are at as low as 12 sec cd.
Make it exactly as it is(you can take full damage and be cc) but introduce a small casting time(charging )that determines the maximum range you go and drop cd back to 15 sec.See now its far easier to counter it and you dont have to bring one of the fastest mobility classes to the bottom by doing something so absurd as putting that huge cd.
You know the 20 sec cd has already afected the pve guys(travelling time etc).The 30 sec would be killing it in anything other than the small pvp maps..

its just kittening boggles my mind why they nerfed s/d with this change more than d/d..
just for the bunker build

not that i want to complain or anything but..I have kittening died so many times in pvp after the patch cause i was waiting for the extra 5 sec of rtl .. :P
Pls anet nerf heals at half and restore cd..pppplllsss!!!!!!!
Seriosuly though mobility>>healing if you play anything non tanky

the problem with these skills is not that are unbalanced but that thye give the impression to new players that something is unfair and they lost while they were winning.If an engie fought you 1vs1 and managed to self rez and beat you afterwards you were never really winning in first place.Just like you fight a thief early on and you both go at 25 % hp thinking you are equal while he is just 1 hs away from defeating you

leashmaygoss.2140:

kostbabis.8791:

leashmaygoss.2140:

hey even buffed your god kitten auras

Ah yeah.. about this.Since people know you and might actually take you seriously auras were nerfed.10% less damage for 7 sec every 40 sec is as bit less than 2 % total damage decrease.Considering that people would tend to avoid fully bursting you with the aura its even less.Hardly the tradeback for losing the too good to be honest chill stacking you could inflict.Same with shock aura and its 2 sec cd..
Only fire aura was buffed but its hardly ever seen in d/d ,non existant in s/d and otherwise completely subpar to every other aura even afer the nerfs on them and the buff on it.
I cant believe you couldnt figure this out??

Good joke.

I love our constructive discussion.My math fail before your unmatched logic!

@Michael he is somewhat wrong cause while rtl is not that unique in distance covered its still pretty fast and really unique in sence of not being affected by slows.
BUT other classes can ensure a long time of invuln aswell were you just wait for it to wear of before you start nuking them again.
You dont have to..run at the speed of lightning to lock an orb cap :P

No! not premades.Helseth just sucks! i was watching his stream and he is obviously being carried by curse :P

I run ele too.Right before the patch i swapped an arcane for signet of earth.
If we ever match up together(when i fix my kittening pc) i ll show you how to immobilize and ele carrying an orb when you see him switch on air when aligned to the cap point.
As a matter of fact you can even immob him while after he starts rtling since the singet immob is not a projectile that has to hit and rtl lasts 2 sec while signet has 3/4 activation time.
And to not leave any empty holes into my arguments..i know an ele can eat condies for breakfast..just not in air and especially not when using rtl!

Defektive.7283:

kostbabis.8791:

lol no..because the classes on the lowest health bracket will heal for less in addition to starting to a lower initial health the fight.Then vitality will become the new bunkering stat instead of toughness/healing power and new bunkers will emerged on the graves of the old ones.

he mentioned the % being higher or lower depending on class / circumstance.

so ele’s could have a 70% heal etc.

yep but what i had in my mind was about the difference in health in the same class.
Like a bunker ele stacking vitality now isntead of toughness/healing etc.Percentage healing means its even easier to reach the ultimate defence mode.
Reaching the ultimate defence mode could be crap or good depending on the value they put but still..it would be easier than now having to worry about 2 stats(vit/tough) instead of 3(healing/tough/vit)

lol no..because the classes on the lowest health bracket will heal for less in addition to starting to a lower initial health the fight.Then vitality will become the new bunkering stat instead of toughness/healing power and new bunkers will emerged on the graves of the old ones.

NO..To open more builds you need balls and not knee jerking responce to the communitys requests.Anet obviously dont have them.Not only ele but thieves,engies etc
They will just try to cover the opness of a build no matter what ..you know e sports needs balance

^how many evades in a row are cheap??
Something like runes of adventure + sigil of energy + elixir r + toolkits shield(less than 20 sec) + elixir s + jump shot feels any less cheap to you?
It seems the forum propaganda is affecting people and they cant even think outside of the already stale and aged meta..

Lordrosicky.5813:

Michael.3279:

Ride The Lightning can traverse literally half the distance from Orb to Capture. How is that not broken? The moment an Ele can SEE their capture point, they can push a button and BE there. It’s broken.

Yeh its broken. They should hotfix this because I count it as a bug, and it does ruin the map somewhat. ALthough generally I like the map ALOT. There is no reason why rtl isnt effected by the 40% slowdown. It should also be effected by chills and cripple like every other skill.

if rtl should be affected by cripples and chill then it should be dropped to 15 sec cd or even lower.
Take the warrior for example.2 sword leaps cover 1200 units while they have a cd of 16 sec and a little bit more downtime due to animation.Add to that wwhirlwind +rush from gs and you can see how a 20 sec rtl that is affected by slows lacks behind for a class thats "supposed "to have squishy glass options too.
Rtl is not a charge/leap skill.Its an effect that locks you out of attunement and ANY other skill you have.You also cannot cancel it or control it in any other form.
ITS DIFFERENT!
Also im so happy defektive doesnt have problem(well almost) with eles this time :P

Teleport does..mist form as well as most other invuln dont drop it.
Ride teh lightning i dont see any reason why it should drop it either since other long charges dont although most of them (NOT ALL) are affected by the movement debuff.
Also an engie can dodge roll 123456789 times in a row keeping his mobility with that while also having jump shot not affected by the slow or drop the orb.
Maybe wanna check that too as well as ranger using sword evades
Also if you are looking for orb runners a guardian seems a solid choice too cause of the massive blocks ,shields and area denial skills it has.(You dont have to transfer it fast if you can go slowly but safely there :P)
I hope i helped a bit

Oblivion.8307:

guardians tank damage, eles kite you around the point until all their cooldowns are up then run away, and you can’t punish them for pressuring your node.

Why cant you punish them from pressuring your point?? :O
Oh i know..its because classes with enough mobility to chase the ele like the thief are pigeonholed into a stupid burst build
Eles is not the problem any more imo.The lack of builds for other classes is bigger issue.
YOU CANT keep nerfing when there are so crap stuff that you could buff while also creating more viable builds..if anet had some balls

^well it wouldnt die instantly cause every ele out there especially after the new map will run absurd bunker builds which are really strong..
With that said though..yep every other ele build conceived by a player that doesnt follow like sheep the current meta will of course dive deeper in the hole of uselessness..
But who cares ?Build diversity in this game is abysmal anyway so no problem destroying everything in order to balance the 2 viable builds every class has now

leashmaygoss.2140:

hey even buffed your god kitten auras

Ah yeah.. about this.Since people know you and might actually take you seriously auras were nerfed.10% less damage for 7 sec every 40 sec is as bit less than 2 % total damage decrease.Considering that people would tend to avoid fully bursting you with the aura its even less.Hardly the tradeback for losing the too good to be honest chill stacking you could inflict.Same with shock aura and its 2 sec cd..
Only fire aura was buffed but its hardly ever seen in d/d ,non existant in s/d and otherwise completely subpar to every other aura even afer the nerfs on them and the buff on it.
I cant believe you couldnt figure this out??

ps:not to mention that we dont know kitten if the damage decrease is stacked with prot,weakness or if it reduces the damage by percentage after the other damage decreases or off the base..

Cunning.7946:

I’m still seeing glass cannon eles absolutely tearing it up in tournies, they’re still perfectly strong and viable.

There were never glass canon elementalists..i seriously question the intelligence level of any ele taking seroiusly fire +heavy in air traits.
@leashmaygoss you make me feel bad…
Besides that much healing in signet only comes with builds that have nothing to do with what the op is talking about :P

In fact i think you should wait a lot more than a week judging by the state of this..communtiy

Defektive.7283:

All,

As of 5pm EST today 2/27/2013. I will
be accepting new lists from individuals based on the latest patch and class performance.

Optionally, you can also leave notes regarding class performance in relation to spirit watch.

Thank you.

No pls dont..unless you want biased results to justify you own bias.
Its important to have a few days including the weekend to pass by so that people actually figure out the new map and the new effectiveness of classes like ele after the nerf.You cant possible expect people to immediately react to changes?? :o
From what ive seen so far everyone is completely confused trying the most basics of things with the map so…

Lordrosicky.5813:

KrisHQ.4719:

Could someone please explain to me the difference between the “Join Solo” button, and the ability to submit without a team?
I’ve been able to solo submit for tournaments for a while, and I still am. So what exactly is the difference?

No difference.

This was the pvp patch:

1, Add new button that says join solo and does nothing
2, Change the word “Paid” to the word “free”
3, Introduce a terrible new map even more dominated by ele, mes and guardian and make people play it for a week straight.
4, Remove the only way for premades to play vs other premades and just put them all back in with solo Q pugs again

Omg you couldnt simplify this even more
1) the button is supposed to distinguish solo teams from premades and match you up accordingly.Wait for the mathmaking values to set up.
2)The change removed a stupid barrier that was paid tickets :O
3)Even if eles/mesm/guard were destroyed the “inertia” of people adjusting together with the small incompetent community would take weeks for a new meta to develop.All i know is that many options of other classes in theory become valuable to orb carrying
4)look at 1..

miklo.3610:

March : Elementalist base HP increased by 300%

april:After multiple attemps to balance eles this class is now banned from spvp in requests of the community.
The 10 people that still play competitively are rejoicing
At the same time things starting to look pretty grim for the mesma.
Also a new conquest map is released :P

nerva.7940:

my friend who mains a d/d ele says the nerfs didnt affect him one bit, similar to what Powerr is saying. maybe because theyre both great players, but still. this was obviously not enough.

But what would be good enough? Mobility has been hit,vigor/regen has been hit fury has been hit.
I mean what should they do with the cantrips trait..?They already reduced it by 40% .If vigor were to last less than 4 sec it wouldnt be enough for 1 extra dodge regeneration for the activation of 60 to 90 sec skill.
So 6 seconds is the bare minimum to keep it effective imo.Reduce more and it might be better to just completely redesign the trait
I think they could have taken a complete deferent direction and instead of nerfing everything a little bit they could nerf the aoe capabilities of skills so stacking eles together doesnt double their healing/boon efficiency etc..and of course mobility >healing in terms of being fun to play so id prefer they touch only the latter from now on..

dejay.2598:

3 gaurdians + 1 ele + mesmer new meta?

why not 1 guard 2 mesm 2 eles?
or 2 guards 1 mesm 2 eles?
or 3 eles 1 guard 1 mesm?
Lol people..so many choices we have in this game and you just complain all day :P

^unfortunately is true..the boon nerfed boon durations shows up the less sruvivability you initially have
Also the internal cd on renewing staming cripples heavy crit builds more than bunkerish with fury builds.
On top of that nerfed mobility reduces the hit and run playstyle which means even more nerf for the glass builds compared to bunkers.What i havent tested is how many might stacks you get from getting the fire aura with d/d which with the glyph could pump up damage a bit as well as the frost aura damage decrease is multiplied or added linearly with protection(or if its added at all)
I dont know..is dps /burst ele so good and we havent found out yet that needed that as much of a hit?
For sure people wont stop running cantrip eles in spvp

^yeah thats sad.Even in fotm classes (that you all seem to hate with a passion now ) its so kittening boring being stuck with variations of the same thing for months..
Honestly their small changes philosophy seems to be a little out of place considering the current state of the game

Teldo.1473:

They said that the big PvP patch will happen in March, if I recall it correctly.

Also: The new queue system is better than the old one and a step into the right direction as well!
I like being able to queue solo for 1-round Tourneys, even if I might lose every now and then against a full premade.

isnt it like 6 am in germany now ?? :0

Sethorus.9231:

Why are Thieves B tier and not A tier? Their damage and burst capacity is incredible and they have a lot of movement. Is it because they’re mostly limited to roaming?

Its mostly cause in tpvp situations you can handle them easily..From my experience and what i ve seen from streams of top teams so far at high end pvp a thief has a very hard time doing his 1shot job properly if the team is keeping track of him.
Of course being able to 1shot people is stupid in first place but its certainly counterable and not worthy of the god/superior tier :P

Defektive.7283:

Based on today’s update this list [should] be changing. I won’t hold my breath though.

If you expect a complete turn upside down of the list any time soon then yep..dont hold your breath.
Warrior had his glory days back in beta/launch days were people were playing like crap and didnt have their dodge button bind anywhere..hehe :P

@nerva
broken is what i say is broken and what i say is broken is what my class /build lacks at the momet
The whole point of not being able to do anything about would be if you were fighting in the downed state from the very beggining.Since thats not the case then balance can be found by taking account the first part of the fight (where you werenet down and the enemy didnt use his invuln to save himself from your burst) or the next part of the team fight were the user has no stunbreaker/ invuln to save him from the burst of your teammates.
Do you get my point?(You dont have to agree just understand you are wrong with your logic :P)

^lol you cant compare full glass canon builds with bunkerish ones and say a class is easy because it can take a lot of beating :O
Just the fact that thief is viable with that kind of offencive setup in paids atually proves the opposite of what you are saying :P
Anyway thief is not easy to play good imo but dont get “offended” so easiliy by things you read on a forum.

^then you havent seen 2 eles duel..where one severely outplays the other one and it still ends in a draw due to build comps..Basically every non glass canon or heavy dps ele fight is a draw.
Also whats the difference between an average ele and a very good ele against a warrior..they both will own him(in the current warrior uverused build) with the worse one having blown a cd or more.
What im trying to say is that you might be able to pull of something amazing skill wise with a class and the end result would be just a tiny bit better than doing your normal rotation in another build.
That shouldnt be the case..For example there are ele builds that are based on arcanes/elem surge that require great timing that lets you land heavy fire bursts but are all outshadowed by evasive arcana.
In short ele has high skill ceiling imo but the drawback of not being there is not harsh at all.In fact i see people all the time face rolling at far point while still doing a great job at doing exactly what they are aiming for..
Engie on the other hand while having just similar complexity and skill combo options is much harder if you ..kitten up!

MrForz.1953:

Well you don’t only have skill ceiling and skill floor, you also have the performance changes between these two. Sometimes abnormally high or low compared to the distance between the ceiling and the floor related to the classes.

yeah true..itss much more complicated than what people account it for.
Also skill floor IS imo affected by effectiveness (aka op level) of a class .
Ele for example while has a rough start at learning compared to other classes if you are new to the game it then flats out.So essentially a good ele and an average ele have similar levels of effectiveness and it requires a lot of skill from the player to be more effective. That still doesnt mean that an exceptional ele wont have a world difference in game compared to an average one though or that the room to play better isnt massive..
We could say that the theres a skill to effectiveness curve that is different for each class

Amaterasu.6280:

You really shouldn’t even talk if you’re playing a d/d ele which is the most OP class in game right now bar none.

Seriously, stop comparing apples to oranges.

D/d ele is not the most op class in game..its not even a class!!? :S
You probably meant d/d 0/10/0/30/30 build with valkyries etc etc
But thats not what he said he is playing..
Im glad i helped with the mess in your head!have a nice day

As for this thread it cant be but really inaccurate..Cause obviously the class with the highest skill ceiling is…the class that i play !!

well skillfloor doesnt matter that much at high end pvp..
But for skill ceiling if you count it as playing closely to the perfect way you could while also counting team fight reactions at the situation then id say all classes are high enough.
Now based on the individual class mechanic and cds to worry i would guess that
warrior has the lowest ceiling while ele/engie have the highest since there is more room for errors and then mesm and necro.
Though i have to say that "op"ness of a class does not mess up with the ceiling.It just increases your efficiency. A very strong class could still have the highest ceiling(it just makes you god when you get there :P )

splash damage of abilities especially melee is a great thing imo.It makes sence and adds a positioning requirement..
For gods shake Anet dont give in to players playing 1 class and 1 build that are hard countered to aoes!
lol imagine nerfing 100 blades doing half damage to every none tabbed or second hit char etc..
At a point reading the op post im starting to believe we want to make this as close to wow as possible

over simplifications and a bunch of crap..yeah aoes might be a problem in many situations but aoes are the vast majority of this games attacks.Most melee are aoes with splash damage,many range attacks pierce or have splash damage etc..The only class that has insanely single target burst is the thief and if you count the damage number its already too high.

Also doing 20 k over 5 people which means 4k damage at each leaving them at 3/4 health is worse than instagibbing with 20k burst a guy and completely removing it from the fight (assuming you stomp).So there it goes you argument about doing x5 damage.Not to mention that you rarely fight 5vs5 and the enemies are not sheeps that stand close to get hit by your aoe.
No sir ,no more dumbing down the game.Learn to spread out :O

oh i forgot ..autofacing also doenst work with firegrab.Every (most) melee ability in this game autamtically lands if you stand still in melee range and let the autofacing kick in except this one
It still kittening misses

firegrab for me seems just buggy or poorly designed.Many times i have a character completely aligned with my toon i activate the skill and it misses.
I still havent figured out whether i have to face the target the moment i activate it or the moment it goes off after a sec but i think it have landed with me aiming a non target after i acticated facing thin air..
Anyway it feels cheap that a skill doing this damage with a huge cd and a burning requirement has to be this hard to land..If the enemy is strafing in front of you then gg you missed

next time have him knock down for the air grand master trait or at least do the burst while switching to water to activate the piercing shards trait.Or both !
Ele burst op :P

^ah yeah nothing seems to work that doesnt revolve around 0/0/0/15/30..
But that will never change until they either remove the mighty powerful trait “elemental attunement” or they reduge the base attunement cooldown.
Math wise you will always get the most benefit when switching attunements(prot,regen,burst heal,cond removal,swiftness) and that means you need as low att cd as possible.
It also doesnt help that you cant build full glass canon due to highly avoidable and telegraphed burst with big cd.
Its just bad design imo

NevirSayDie.6235:

I’ve always wanted to theorycraft an ele build, but I knew I could never make one better than 10/30/30 d/d, so I’ve never really played the profession. I don’t personally know enough about eles to decide how they should be adjusted, but most of these ideas seem like they would open up new builds while toning down the current one.

huh?? It depends on the role you want the build for.D/d in eu meta is not even that used and s/d is more common.You can go 0/0/10/30/30 in s/d and be bunker or you can go 0/10/10/20/30 or 0/20/0/20/30 and focus on damage all of them being pretty much viable and used in paids.
In fact i m pretty sure there are other viable ele builds that just happen to not be that selfish and powerfull in 1vs1 but could rule in teamfights(arcane power+elem surge after the last patch comes to mind).Just nobody runs them in paids atm.But from what ive been watching from streams the top pvp scene consist of a few teams that can be counted in 1 hand and have the communication of what a casual weekend nights team would have in other competitive games..so i guess the meta is far from being developed..

omg ….these kitten threads all over the place.Please Anet
Nerf the kittening class already..Why do i have to wait till 26(??) to have the forum be cleared by any wannabe game developer that thinks that posses the mystic knowledge of how to balance ele..Come on,do it now.Save us from the ele nerf threads.