I’ve gotten multiple Precursors, and each one I didn’t buy. Everything is working as intended. The only thing that’s broken is your assumption that you’re “Entitled” to a Precursor for a low cost. This argument is similar to a Middle Class single dad wanting to buy a Lamborghini, but that car price is “broken”.
Why do you always take things to such extremes and purposefully mischaracterise people and/or their desires?
People want a more concrete way to work towards a precursor, then from you we usually get something like: “All you want to be is lazy and have things handed to you!!!!” Your trolling is tiresome.
Precursors are a luxury item like a Lamborghini. He’s not being extreme in his example. Would you prefer that they be craftable but account bound?
Man if I could randomly have my paycheck yield a Lambo I’d be so happy. But… it doesn’t work that way But it does in this game. Luxury items based on luck seems to warrant at least some frustration.
Yep. It’s a lot easier in this game because there are less restrictions on how you can earn money. It all relies on how much effort you want to put into it. Whereas in real life you’re limited by your job(s).
Now let’s end the discussion here because it’s just a matter of opinions from now on.
Your opinion is that the skill required for flipping justifies the exponential profit curve,
However in my opinion it does not.
I will leave this with my favoured statement that equal skill required, no matter in which part of the game, should be treated equally. And in my opinion the skill required to play the traiding post does not exceed the skill required to be super effective in other parts of the game.
You can leave a last statement too if you want.
Actually, we’re using more than just opinions. Your arguments are about how they should be based on your personal opinions without any justification as to why.
Again, you have relatively no idea how much work successful flippers put into what they do. You claim it’s so easy just by going onto gw2spidy yet then why isn’t everyone doing it? It’s pretty obvious that you haven’t even attempted to try it and are stating that it’s easy with absolutely no experience. It’s no different than a new player saying Arah is easy without having done it because people can just watch the video tutorials.
I’ve gotten multiple Precursors, and each one I didn’t buy. Everything is working as intended. The only thing that’s broken is your assumption that you’re “Entitled” to a Precursor for a low cost. This argument is similar to a Middle Class single dad wanting to buy a Lamborghini, but that car price is “broken”.
Why do you always take things to such extremes and purposefully mischaracterise people and/or their desires?
People want a more concrete way to work towards a precursor, then from you we usually get something like: “All you want to be is lazy and have things handed to you!!!!” Your trolling is tiresome.
He’s not being extreme in his example. Precursors are a luxury item like a Lamborghini. People running under the assumption that precursors should be affordable for everyone is no different than arguing the Lamborghini’s should be made affordable to everyone. People are also completely ignoring the supply and demand effects. Would you prefer that they be craftable but account bound?
Researching items is a one-time deal. Ofcourse it’s not that simple, you want to check your profit now and then but finding those items is a one-time deal. Furthermore it isn’t even that hard to predict the velocity of the most popular items.
Setting up buy orders and sell offers is the minor part time-wise.
[snip]
Wrong. Again you show how little you know. No item price is static thus constantly keeping up to date information on trends of each item you are involved in is important. Not a one time deal.
edit: You are a pro troll BTW…
Pretty much. I had this discussion with I’m in another thread where he made it off as simply gong onto gw2spidy and flipping what he saw had the highest margins. If it’s so easy to flip and make profit easily then why isn’t everyone else doing it? It’s just jealousy that players who don’t play the way that he believes they should play should not be making more gold than him.
Seriously, you start harassing me, while “quoting” something I haven’t even said. Your arguments don’t get any better. You’re still claiming that being effective at the traiding post requires the uber-skill while disparaging any other way to make gold as less skillbased. You act like the whole game centers around your traiding post and you being the holy angel harming nobody. Everyone is supposed to glance up to you and embrace your wisdom. And if it’s not that way then atleast you make it look like it.
Would you like me to quote your posts from that thread? There’s a difference between harassing you and challenging your posts. You make the same argument based on your personal opinions, whilst ignoring everyone else’s argument, in thread after thread. Of course you’re going to be constantly challenged and it may appear to seem like you’re being harassed.
Your argument about what I said in regards to skill between the TP and everything else is a strawman argument. They requiring different skill sets does not equate to one requiring more skill than the other. Nice try though.
I don’t act like the whole game centers around the TP. It doesn’t. It’s also not harming anyone as pointed out by many people in this thread and others.
Or how can you explain that some people can get 100 legendaries and the most not even one?
That’s easy … someone worked to get 100 legendaries … someone else didn’t do enough to even get one. That’s not an economy problem and if anything, your example illustrates this beautifully … A working economy does indeed separate 100 legendary people from zero legendary people, AS INTENDED.
While people can argue the legendary system doesn’t work, that’s not indicative of how the economy as a whole DOES work. Again, I think it’s worth noting that as much as ignorant people consider the economy to be broken, the way it works is intended and confirmed as such by the experts at the helm of it at Anet.
Except that it is NOT AN ISOLATED economy. The GW2 economy is connected to the real world economy by way of the gem store because people can always convert real money to gold Rich people out in the real world, can move some of their wealth over and still be rich in GW2 without investing too much in terms of playing time.
Having legendaries doesn’t prove that you are a better player. It just means you are richer in the game.
Learning to flip is no more difficult than running dungeons or other activities. All of which require some form of skill and effort. Obviously there’s a time investment involved at the beginning to build the necessary skill set. If players do not want to do this then it’s there own fault and they really have nobody to blame but themselves.
The game is not specifically designed so that TP flippers will be more profitable than everyone else. It’s a byproduct. Anyone can make gold off the TP with a very little research that at least paces how much you make from other activities.
I know you have more of a socialistic viewpoint on how an economy should be but that’s not how it was designed in this game.
The concept of Legendary Weapon’s is: “Working hard to get ingredient, sooner or later.” Even if you put 6 months 1 year or 2. It is guaranteed, sooner or later, you get the ingredient.
Everyone has guaranteed to have sooner or later, an ingredient that has a price (extreme) increases again again and again? No, no guarantee, nothing.
For many people, get a precursor, it is to be a dog running around a tree to catch his own tail.
This ingredient with an extreme price, month after month after month is broken.
It is time to repair with craft or others because the guaranteed, today, is EXTREMELY broken.
Highest buy offer for dusk is 1300g right now. You can do 30g a day without TP flipping or hugely lucky drops, so that’s like 44 days for a precursor, and it costs roughly 1300g for the rest of the mats. That’s 3 months for a whole legendary.
You’re hugely overestimating how long it takes to get it done.
If other people can buy precursors by simply farming, it only shows that someone who is a “a dog running around a tree to catch his own tail” is simply not trying hard enough or doing it wrong.
And as soon as Anet is crazy enough to make it too easy to acquire precursors, I’m 100% sure people will be whining alot more about T6 mats/lodestones/fine mats being too expensive and other crafting non-legendary costs going sky high as collateral damage(mainly exotic and ascended grade gear which involves a greater amount of the playing population compared to legendary weapon crafters).
30g day is not the standard. I can make that by flipping but most cannot through grinding. Most adults do not have a full day to spend on a game, anyway, so you gotta think “evenings” rather than “days”. Which is 4 hours max, say 10g average per evening which includes other expenses (crafting, ascended sinks etc.) You can’t do 130 evenings straight in a row so multiply that by two or three. So now you’re looking at 1 year minimum. Except that in 1 year the price of your coveted precursor may have doubled. Oh, and we haven’t yet accounted for the other materials necessary for the legendary.
You can make roughly 4.32 gold per character node farming ori ore and ancient logs. This takes about 20 min per character. You do not need to play all day to make that much gold.
For clarification:
John, is the fact that profit from the traiding post is shifted value, unlike the reward from other activities, which is newly created value, the justification for traiding post flippers to have, in theory, unlimited profit?
Followup:
What is the justification for traiding post flippers having an exponential maximum-reward-curve, unlike any other activities which all have just a steady, constant maximum-reward-curve?
You’ll likely find your answer here but I’m sure he’ll elaborate when he has time.
Researching items is a one-time deal. Ofcourse it’s not that simple, you want to check your profit now and then but finding those items is a one-time deal. Furthermore it isn’t even that hard to predict the velocity of the most popular items.
Setting up buy orders and sell offers is the minor part time-wise.
[snip]
Wrong. Again you show how little you know. No item price is static thus constantly keeping up to date information on trends of each item you are involved in is important. Not a one time deal.
edit: You are a pro troll BTW…
Pretty much. I had this discussion with I’m in another thread where he made it off as simply gong onto gw2spidy and flipping what he saw had the highest margins. If it’s so easy to flip and make profit easily then why isn’t everyone else doing it? It’s just jealousy that players who don’t play the way that he believes they should play should not be making more gold than him.
For my part, I’ve tried a few times and couldn’t get it either. However, one thing I haven’t managed to pull off so far is ensure nobody dies in Concordia at the start AND I then rescue all 7 NPCs. Not sure if that might make a difference.
Ghosts will only go away within the living story if the speculation turns out to be true and happens. Everything else will remain the same. Zhaitan died, and the corruption lifted, but you still see risen all over the place.
That’s different. The risen weren’t being kept alive by a curse or anything. Once the curse is lifted, every ascalonian ghost goes poof.
They’re not going to eliminate an entire set of enemies for the living story which will affect everything within that region.
That’s a bad defense when we still have a destroyed Lion’s Arch.
There’s no reason they may not be doing things that permanently affect the game world. Ghosts can be replaced by whatever Mordremoth’s minions are.
Again, I said enemies and not physical structures. Lion’s Arch was just a single map with no hearts, dungeons, etc tied to it. The ghosts are a part of that entire region and would require reworking of everything.
If you’re here to complain about diction, then leave. I don’t kittening care how you call the gold a flipper gets, he gets more than anybody else.
So players should educate themself, otherwise its their own fault and you’re allowed to exploit them? Are you allowed to exploit people IRL who have a lower education level? no. So why should you be allowed to do so in GW2?
Wanze has made a suggestion called “White Karma”. And if this gets implemented the margin one could get through flipping will shrink.
I feel as player, who plays the MMO how a MMO should be played, aka. doing all the PvE stuff, dishonored if players who don’t even have to participate at all in PvE, PvP or WvW making the most gold with an activity that isn’t even considered as a MMO activity. I have no problem with them making gold by flipping, I have a problem with them making the most, by far the most gold compared to any other activity ingame.
It boils down to the fact that the same amount of skill and time put into different parts of the game get rewarded differently, despite they oughtn’t.
The TP is part of the world of Tyria and spending your time interacting with it is just as legitimate a play session as dungeons or jumping puzzles or any of our other fantastic content.
John Smith.4610:
I want to go through a hypothetical to explain a point about the TP.
Before I start I want to restate (it was quoted earlier) that the TP is part of the Tyrian world, we don’t make monster killing games here, we make online worlds (in which you should kill monsters, because killing monsters is awesome).
Ghosts will only go away within the living story if the speculation turns out to be true and happens. Everything else will remain the same. Zhaitan died, and the corruption lifted, but you still see risen all over the place.
That’s different. The risen weren’t being kept alive by a curse or anything. Once the curse is lifted, every ascalonian ghost goes poof.
They’re not going to eliminate an entire set of enemies for the living story which will affect everything within that region.
Though I still have to scratch my head. If it’s not inflation how do you explain the price of say Powerful blood doubling in price since last year? Are t6 mats much harder to come by giving a lower supply? Are that many more people really going after the things those produce? What were people spending their gold on back then if the demand was so much lower, were people just building massive banks of cash?
If people are spending more gold on gems, spending more gold on t6 mats, spending more gold on precursors, where is that extra gold coming from? How are they able to afford it?
We saw the increase due to ascended armor in December last year and then because of the demand spike for legendaries in April.
The concept of the legendary weapons (Get the ingredients, normally, just with the time (6 months, 1 year, 2 years…), is impossible for a large number of people. Impossible for them to follow the price in the time.) is totally broken because the price of precursor is extremly broken days after days, months after months. It’s time for repair the price, it’s time for keep the promise with craft of precursor or others.
The game must be GUILD WARS 2 not BLTP WARS 2…
Please state exactly why it’s broken. What makes it broken? I keep asking because you keep saying it’s broken but don’t explain why with facts. You only present your opinions on how you think it should be.
I say to do research because it gets pretty old fast having to teach someone something that they can learn on their own. I should not have to educate someone who participates in a discussion that involves economics. That burden is not in me. I’ve been in numerous threads where the issue is simply that they don’t have a good understanding.
Inflation is the increase of common goods across the entire market. You can’t meSure inflation based on precursors or t6 fine materials. One reason why is that t6 fine materials are an items used for legendaries. If the demand for legendaries goes up, you can sure to expect the same for all related components.
While the amount of gold in the system naturally has an impact on prices, it doesn’t happen overnight. If you look on gw2spidy, you can get a good idea in what is mainly causing the increases for precursors. Also, the trend in conversions is that it’s continuously costing more to convert gold to gems. This means there are more people converting gold to gems than the other way around.
I’ll gladly elaborate a little more for you in future posts if I remember to since you’ve taken a class and it’ll be easier to explain things. Another reason I resort to telling people to research the topics is because a lot of the time I’m using my phone which makes it a pain to type out long, involved posts.
Crafting precursors would have just transferred the “volatility” to the requires components to craft them. Also, the price of precursors are working as intended based on supply and demand. There’s a very large demand for legendaries but very little supply despite its velocity.
Precursor price increases are not a sign of inflation. I highly suggest researching about what inflation is and how it is measured. Knowing economics would help with this rather than it being “shaky and confusing”.
The gem store is a completely different system and has nothing to do with precursor prices.
I also suggest looking at the precursor price history (buy and sell orders) since launch on gw2spidy. Look at where the spikes are. What caused these spikes? I’ll give you a hint of one spike. Look at this April. Also look at the dip in price during November 2012. What could have caused these?
I’m half tempted to buy up all of the dusks and then list one for 20k so the OP can say things must really be broken.
My point still stands that people should learn a bit more. You would realize that the principles of supply and demand still apply regardless to how close to perfect competition that things are for the most part. Also markets are not really manipulated as you seem to be insinuating. Precursors have a decent velocity whereas they can’t be controlled as easily as say past event items.
As far as my quote, perhaps you should read everything else around it rather than pull it out of context. The whole point of it was to show that posting something at a certain price doesn’t mean that is the new price point for that item.
Ghosts will only go away within the living story if the speculation turns out to be true and happens. Everything else will remain the same. Zhaitan died, and the corruption lifted, but you still see risen all over the place.
When you consider economy (ANet gem sales) it is wise for them to keep it that way. Legendaries/Precursors are rare and hard to obtain via normal/casual gameplay. Ascended stuff just takes time(gate) so anyone who has a bit of free time can make it. Still, you can buy relatively cheaply most of the mats to make ascended stuff so no profit in it for ANet.
On the other hand I find it disgusting that you can buy/flip Legandaries.
Please provide your proof. It will come down to it being unable to be proven or disproven so should not be used in any arguments. Although, one could argue that with how gold->gem prices are going, this likely is not much of an issue.
Casual players can get legendaries which many have. It’s all about prioritizing your limited play time and doing what’s more important to you. These are luxury items and not something you can get with minimal effort.
Ascended weapons cost around 50 gold. Ascended heavy armor costs about 500 gold. Ascended light armor costs about 550 gold. This is largely because they don’t require items that have a large demand but very limited supply. They also differ vastly by the method of creation, require vastly different components, and all of which are very high for legendaries. You cannot compare them.
I’m really confused as to what this rant is really all about
Likely what was recently mentioned and the OP didn’t realize that there are two prices available when trying to sell an item. They saw the buy order price and assumed they got ripped off.
Why isn’t it possible to put superior runes and sigils in the mystic forge to gamble? This would at least start using up the lowest priced runes and sigils on the market, and allow us to at least try for an unsoulbound rune.
I can’t discuss the origins of why. I can say that the market isn’t in a state where it would handle changing that very well. The markets need a more fundamental change.
Off topic: I thought of a way to bring about that fundamental change. Forge 4 exotic runes for the chance of an account bound ascended rune (success!) or receive a major rune in return (failure, try again!). Not expecting any comment of course, you guys reading it is enough for me.
It won’t prevent the problem if they were to be able to put to the forge.
i confirmed my theory on this one.. if you noticed, there is a buff on those npc that makes them invulnerable.. what you need to do is to wait for the buff to expire then talk to them.. you need to keep them alive or the achievement will fail.. i talked to 7 npcs since i soloed doing this achievement.. all 7 npcs didnt die.. and i still have 2 mins on the 10 minute countdown.. i hope it helps.. good luck!
Nope. I’ve tried this numerous times to the point I can keep everyone alive in the first part without trying. Invulnerability buffs don’t affect it.
I just did the math real quick for ascended armor.
It’s about 546.21 gold for the light armor set if you do buy orders and craft everything. It’s about 10.5 gold more if you buy all materials outright and still craft everything.
It’s about 492.5 gold for the heavy armor set if you do buy orders and craft everything. It’s about 11 gold more if you buy all materials outright and still craft everything.
This is just only a 54 gold difference between the two sets or 9 gold per piece. The key is to craft the threads yourself
There is one important difference. You CAN harvest for heavy armor relatively easily, without the need for reaching for TP at all. You cannot do that for light armor. And THAT is the reason why one is much, much easier to craft than the other.
Yeah and light armor uses leather which is incredibly cheap. I believe all of the components were less than a silver a piece. It’s not that difficult to farm an additional 50 gold.
I only have 100 gold across my account. 50 gold is a lot to me.
Ascended armor/weapons and legendaries are a lot to you as well. These are luxury items so they will be expensive.
I used less than 100 gold total (not sure how much, i think it was way less, but would need o recalculate it now to be sure) to craft my whole set of heavy ascended armor. I managed to do that because i was able to farm for materials for it without too much hassle in the time span set by timegating. If i have tried doing this for a light armor, i’d likely still be gathering resources half a year from now. This is a serious disconnect here, one that cannot be justified by trying to fix silk position on TP. The cure here turned out to be worse than the disease.
Full ascended heavy set needs 25 damask cloth compared to the 36 for light. If all you needed for heavy was under 100 gold then the extra 11 damask should not be an issue for you.
Also, you can farm materials and use those proceeds to fund cloth purchases.
No. All AP does is give a good basis as to whether a player potentially has a grasp on basic game mechanics. It does not denote skill or a certain mindset.
I just did the math real quick for ascended armor.
It’s about 546.21 gold for the light armor set if you do buy orders and craft everything. It’s about 10.5 gold more if you buy all materials outright and still craft everything.
It’s about 492.5 gold for the heavy armor set if you do buy orders and craft everything. It’s about 11 gold more if you buy all materials outright and still craft everything.
This is just only a 54 gold difference between the two sets or 9 gold per piece. The key is to craft the threads yourself
There is one important difference. You CAN harvest for heavy armor relatively easily, without the need for reaching for TP at all. You cannot do that for light armor. And THAT is the reason why one is much, much easier to craft than the other.
Yeah and light armor uses leather which is incredibly cheap. I believe all of the components were less than a silver a piece. It’s not that difficult to farm an additional 50 gold.
I only have 100 gold across my account. 50 gold is a lot to me.
Ascended armor/weapons and legendaries are a lot to you as well. These are luxury items so they will be expensive.
I just did the math real quick for ascended armor.
It’s about 546.21 gold for the light armor set if you do buy orders and craft everything. It’s about 10.5 gold more if you buy all materials outright and still craft everything.
It’s about 492.5 gold for the heavy armor set if you do buy orders and craft everything. It’s about 11 gold more if you buy all materials outright and still craft everything.
This is just only a 54 gold difference between the two sets or 9 gold per piece. The key is to craft the threads yourself
There is one important difference. You CAN harvest for heavy armor relatively easily, without the need for reaching for TP at all. You cannot do that for light armor. And THAT is the reason why one is much, much easier to craft than the other.
Yeah and light armor uses leather which is incredibly cheap. I believe all of the components were less than a silver a piece. It’s not that difficult to farm an additional 50 gold.
I just did the math real quick for ascended armor.
It’s about 546.21 gold for the light armor set if you do buy orders and craft everything. It’s about 10.5 gold more if you buy all materials outright and still craft everything.
It’s about 492.5 gold for the heavy armor set if you do buy orders and craft everything. It’s about 11 gold more if you buy all materials outright and still craft everything.
This is just only a 54 gold difference between the two sets or 9 gold per piece. The key is to craft the threads yourself
Again. You’re focusing solely on the prices of a couple items and wanting changes to be more in line with what you deem fair without thinking about how those changes would affect the market.
And here, again, you concentrate on market as a whole, completely ignoring its impact on individuals. Which is the general problem with economics, by the way.
And here, again, you don’t concentrate on market as a whole, completely ignoring its impact on individuals. Which is the general problem with ignoring economics, by the way.
Not sure if the engine allows it, but if so, could collision detection be added for players except for dodge rolls like the way mobs are setup? I don’t mean everywhere, just inside of dungeons only.
It’s not big, but it’d go a long way into removing a lot of the cheese factor in dungeons runs.
In order for there to be a solution, there must be a problem. Stacking is not a problem. If you don’t like it then create your own group and specify that you don’t want to stack.
But it does in this game. Luxury items based on luck seems to warrant at least some frustration.
