And there is that no-brainer argument again: The gold that traiding post flippers get is gold from other people, not newly created gold. And that’s the reason why traiding post flippers are allowed to get the most revenue in the whole kittening game.
That is stupid!
So if traiding post flippers get that much money because they’re not resposible for inflation, why are material farmers not as rich as traiding post flippers? They also don’t create new gold if they sell their stuff to the traiding post.
The argument isn’t even an answer to the question why traiding post flippers should get more gold than anybode else, yet it is repeated by everybody.
John should probably close this thread I can’t stand this idiocy anymore.
You only think the argument is stupid because you don’t understand the economic impacts of each. John’s last respond gives a really good example that you should read.
To simplify it for you, If Germany were to print billions of Deutsche Marks (not using Euros to avoid potential confusion), and released it into your economy, the value of each Deutsche Mark would fall. Same thing applies to newly created Gold in game. So by increasing the amount of currency (in game or in real life), you effectively increase the cost of goods across the board.
Despite I don’t even know what this example should prove, it’s wrong on multiple layers. First off all, as said, farmers do not create new gold, yet they earn way less than traiding post flippers can earn. Secondly, if there would be more gold, people would buy more and the prices will rise until the people can afford as much items as they could before, all just has gotten more expensive. There is a new balance. It’s not better, it’s not worse, it’s just different. John don’t want to release more new gold to the market from just one type of gameplay because all players would have to participate in it in order to keep up. That is understandable and (IMPORTANT NOTE ->)
it is not my intention to higher the prices but to bring the revenue one could get from traiding post flipping in line with the revenue of other activities, that require as much time and/or skill as traiding post flipping does.
You can’t as all other activities would add new gold to the system.
He could be a visual learner so graphs would probably be more effective. If I have time tonight I’ll find some and post them on here or at least a link to somewhere.
I’m curious and perhaps John Smith could answer this if possible.
How many people have over 10,000 gold?
What’s the highest amount of gold that someone currently has?
Why does it matter? People with that much money probably don’t have any legitimate way to spend it, except on gems. There’s a practical limit on the ability to consume, particularly in this game, so gold has a sharply deteriorating marginal value. Assuming JS doesn’t allow people to manipulate markets (abuse of dominant position), there’s no harm in someone having and accumulating lots of gold.
The point I was going to make with his answers was that it’s a very small number of players that have accumulated that much. I’d say that it’s less than 100 but that’s pure guesstimation. Since it’s so few players that have that much in relation to the rest of the player base, why does it really matter that a few players can make a lot of gold off the TP?
but I cant find how to switch back to personal story. I already finished it on this char. I checked all the personal stories but cant find any button to click.
How could you go back if you’ve already completed it or am I missing something?
Here’s a screenshot of the button you would press if you still had more of the personal story to do.
Edit: Perhaps maybe someone should make a suggestion for the ability to turn the story indicators off.
Wow. The quote tags are completely messed up now. Anyway…
For the first part, no. The revenues being evened out don’t matter to you. You, yourself stated that you would not care if dungeon runners made more gold than TP farmers. Clearly if things were the other way around, this thread would not exist as you would not care that there would be no balance.
For the second part, a misspelling? Your explanation of your misspelling is actually changing the entire meaning of that part of your post. And it also doesn’t make much more sense.
Thanks that you know better what I mean than I do. And it’s 4 AM here, I’m lazy.
It was essentially a yes or no question though. Either you did not care that dungeon runners made more than TP flippers or you did care.
If dungeon runners would earn more than traiding post flippers, then I would be completely fine with that.
So you’re fine if dungeon runners make the most gold over TP flippers but not the other way around. This is conflicting and shows total bias on your part. Your problem is not that there is a disparity between the methods. Your issue is that TP flipping makes more gold than the other methods. This is because you do not believe the TP flipping is a legitimate means to play the game and make gold.
We’re essentially back to my post where I was saying that this entire thread is about you not thinking TP flipping is a legitimate activity in GW2. It really as nothing to do with the disparity.
Go back and read again. I want the revenues evened out. If dungeon runners would as conclusion come out ahaid, then I would have no problem with that since I still consider actually playing the game worth more than standing by the merchant flipping the coins.
Based on the current state of the game, selling dungeon paths wouldn’t give that more revenue than the current traiding post flipping does now over selling dungeon paths.
So you’re saying that in the current state of the game that they’re about even? Why is there an issue then?
That’s a misspelling on my part. I meant that if dungeon running would offer more gold than flipping the traiding post, then the difference between both ways of acquiring gold wouldn’t be that great as it is now.
Wow. The quote tags are completely messed up now. Anyway…
For the first part, no. The revenues being evened out don’t matter to you. You, yourself stated that you would not care if dungeon runners made more gold than TP farmers. Clearly if things were the other way around, this thread would not exist as you would not care that there would be no balance.
For the second part, a misspelling? Your explanation of your misspelling is actually changing the entire meaning of that part of your post. And it also doesn’t make much more sense.
If dungeon runners would earn more than traiding post flippers, then I would be completely fine with that.
So at first, your argument was that TP traders should not make more money than you. This led to your feelings that you dislike rich people, as per your previous post.
The problem I have with traiding post flippers is a simple one. I simply don’t like others to be richer than me
But now that you’d be able to make more money than someone else, it’s completely OK? Because now it benefits you? You lost this argument on multiple levels now.
Nice quoting, you won all my internetz. I’m neither flipping, nor selling dungeons runs, so there will always people who are richer than me. Poor me. :’(
Seriously if you only aim for letting me look like I’m just a jealous child then kittening leave this thread. If you can’t argument on facts and even feel the need to quote me that badly then I have no interest in hearing your opinion.
If dungeon runners would earn more than traiding post flippers, then I would be completely fine with that.
So you’re fine if dungeon runners make the most gold over TP flippers but not the other way around. This is conflicting and shows total bias on your part. Your problem is not that there is a disparity between the methods. Your issue is that TP flipping makes more gold than the other methods. This is because you do not believe the TP flipping is a legitimate means to play the game and make gold.
We’re essentially back to my post where I was saying that this entire thread is about you not thinking TP flipping is a legitimate activity in GW2. It really as nothing to do with the disparity.
Based on the current state of the game, selling dungeon paths wouldn’t give that more revenue than the current traiding post flipping does now over selling dungeon paths.
So you’re saying that in the current state of the game that they’re about even? Why is there an issue then?
As I’ve said before, it’s not about the market, it’s about the one player making much more money through flipping the traiding post than the one player soloing dungeons which is exhausting and requires a lot of skill or the one farming the materials you are flipping.
In terms of just watching a video, I can just repeat the question others have made so often: If it’s that simple, why don’t more people do it? If you are that certain that it is that easy, you can watch a solo guide if you like and try it. We can talk afterwards.
Let’s say that doing solo dungeon runs and selling spots was the most profitable way to make gold followed by flipping. Would there no longer be an issue for you then?
It is already the most rewarding activity after flipping the traiding post. The problem is that traiding post flippers get way too much gold for what they do. They should get an even amount of gold like 200g per day maximum. That’s the margin a real hardcore dungeon seller could achieve. Flipping the traiding post requires skills that don’t belong to basic MMOs skills. Soloing a dungeon is the supreme discipline of basic MMO skills.
You missed what I was asking. If dungeon sellers made more gold than a TP flipper, would you care?
EDIT: And to follow up with that, what percentage of players do you think are able to do both?
As I’ve said before, it’s not about the market, it’s about the one player making much more money through flipping the traiding post than the one player soloing dungeons which is exhausting and requires a lot of skill or the one farming the materials you are flipping.
In terms of just watching a video, I can just repeat the question others have made so often: If it’s that simple, why don’t more people do it? If you are that certain that it is that easy, you can watch a solo guide if you like and try it. We can talk afterwards.
Let’s say that doing solo dungeon runs and selling spots was the most profitable way to make gold followed by flipping. Would there no longer be an issue for you then?
Also I just realize this is the economic version of the PHIW vs. Meta build argument…inthe end play how you want, but just leave others to do the same and all will be well.
Well, if it’s that way then the meta has to be balanced. You don’t want the hambow cheese as meta, do you?
Its not about the effectiveness of the meta, its about forcing the meta on those who like to do things differently…much like this discussion. Your stance would be the meta viewpoint, and flippers the PHIW group. In the end the PHIW groups usually win out as long as the meta group doesnt interfere and visa versa..
But a healthy meta doesn’t resolve around just one thing. If you want to run dungeons most efficiently, you wont pick 5 warriors or 5 elementalists. You wont do that for PvP either. So why do people get locked to traiding post flipping if they’re looking for the most efficient way to make gold. Shouldn’t it be like picking the best out of all aviable options of each gamemode? Same as you pick different classes to optimise your run.
Making money does not revolve around flipping though. There are plenty of other ways. People make plenty of gold doing dungeon tours and other things.
Yes, but as I’ve said several times, traiding post flipping can offer the greatest revenue and the players who have 10k+ gold, didn’t got their gold through dungeon running.
I can do 20g per day running 6 different dungeons and I do need several hours to complete them. Don’t tell me you get less gold if you spend several hours traiding.
You act as though there are these items with large profit margins that can constantly be sold to quickly make gold.
Gw2spidy is the same cup of tea as Gw2LFG was. It was there, it worked well but it wasn’t popular. Also it’s not just about looking for the greatest margin but also for the velocity certain items get sold, as example.
I’m not going to give a lesson on how to efficiently flip items on the TP. If you believe that gw2spidy is all that you need then prove it.
For the solo run: You’ll probably would do Arah since it’s the most common dungeon for sellers. A normal seller does need 40min. to 80min. to finish a run and another 20min. maximum to fill up the party. He usually get 5-20g, based on the path he was selling.
Also I just realize this is the economic version of the PHIW vs. Meta build argument…inthe end play how you want, but just leave others to do the same and all will be well.
Well, if it’s that way then the meta has to be balanced. You don’t want the hambow cheese as meta, do you?
Its not about the effectiveness of the meta, its about forcing the meta on those who like to do things differently…much like this discussion. Your stance would be the meta viewpoint, and flippers the PHIW group. In the end the PHIW groups usually win out as long as the meta group doesnt interfere and visa versa..
But a healthy meta doesn’t resolve around just one thing. If you want to run dungeons most efficiently, you wont pick 5 warriors or 5 elementalists. You wont do that for PvP either. So why do people get locked to traiding post flipping if they’re looking for the most efficient way to make gold. Shouldn’t it be like picking the best out of all aviable options of each gamemode? Same as you pick different classes to optimise your run.
Making money does not revolve around flipping though. There are plenty of other ways. People make plenty of gold doing dungeon tours and other things.
Soloing dungeons is not efficient…
Rewards are not based on participants…
If you think gw2spidy does most of the work then you really have no idea what most flippers have to do.
The last paragraph is an opinion.
Soloing dungeons is the most effective way in PvE to make gold, since you can sell the slots left at the end.
And no, enlighten me what you have to do that gw2spidy doesn’t, except searching the database for the most efficient way to flip.
So exactly how much time do you think if takes to solo a dungeon? How long does it take to fill up a party? How much do they get from each person?
Think of it this way, if making a profit was as simple as looking up margin on gw2spidy, don’t you think everyone would be doing that and thus eliminating any profit to be made?
You have absolutely no idea how much work and time a skilled slipper put into learning the market and how to flip efficiently, do you? You assume that someone can do it right off the bat, which if was the case, there would be no profit from flipping. And again, you saying that there must not be a disparity between those that flip and those that don’t is an opinion.
Can you solo a dungeon? It does seem so because, according to you, it requires way less skill than flipping the traiding post. Not to mention that gw2spidy does the most work for you.
And no, there shouldn’t be that disparity, since it shouldn’t give more reward than any other content of this game. The most efficient way should ge a mixture of all things: Do easy dungeons, sell some paths, farm some materials and flip some coins on the traiding post. Purely flipping the traiding post shouldn’t be the way to get as much gold as possible.
Soloing dungeons is not efficient…
Rewards are not based on participants…
If you think gw2spidy does most of the work then you really have no idea what most flippers have to do.
What do you play? Do you play the Stock Exchange simulator? Last time I checked this game was named GuildWars2. You seriously don’t have to play a MMO if the only thing you want to do is flipping the traiding post. If you want to play GW2, go ahead and play. But playing the trading post can’t be considered playing GW2.
I consider playing the game means doing everything exept flipping the tradingpost to get way too much gold for way too little effort. If you feel the need to claim that I want the players to play my way, then yes, they should play how I consider playing a game.
the tradingpost flipping doesn’t belong to GW2, it doesn’t define it. If you say that GW2 get defined through it’s traidingpost then it’s about time to leave this game.
problem for HHR he feels the value of the merchant lifestyle outstrips the value of the adventurer lifestyle.
So first you have to ask yourself
is this true?
then you have to ask
should it be this way?
then you have to ask
If it shouldnt be this way, how can i change
if it should be this way, then dunno what to tell him.
i wont get into my opinion on the matter, though people can probably guess from my other posts
Is this true? No. Playing the TP is a valid way to play the game.
Should it be this way? Yes. The mechanics allow for it to be done. The API for the TP was released for this very purpose. Even in RL making smart investments, buying and selling stcok etc. is the BEST way to get “rich quick”.
Just because one person has a different perspective on an issue doesnt mean that that is the truth. It just means that that persons perceptive is flawed to what is widely accepted as truth. There is only one version of truth. Period. The world is round, but our perspective is that its flat. That doesn’t change the fact that the world is indeed round.
So how does an adventurer playstyle out-value merchant playstyle as phys put it?
And just because it can be done in the real word doesn’t mean it should be done in game. Neither is the “mainstream” opinion always the right one. And by the way, if you’re 2m above sea level, you can see 5,05 km wide until the earth’s curvature blocks your vision. So the world isn’t as flat as you may think it is.
And just because the “mechanics allow that” doesn’t mean its untouchable or unquestionable. ANet has stopped the champtrain because too many people had made too much gold with it. The traidingpost flipping is the same, just with less people who make more gold.
Just for clarity the champ trains werent stopped because of too much income. The trains were stopped because of the myriad of complaints, the toxic environment caused by someone accidentally killing a champ out of order, and the excessive amount of bots.
Also about the curvature, in order to see that you need to change your perspective (I.e. being in an open area or up high enough)
Also it would seem you missed the post about JS talking about this very thing.
JS post actually didnt answer his problem, JS is saying the TP flipping is valid means of playing the game, and he likes what it does for the mercantile engine.
but the OPs point as i see it is this.
The value returned from flipping is greater than other modes of play.
He doesnt think it should be this way.
JS, in that post didnt say he thought flipping should return 5-10 times as much profit over time as jumping puzzles, dungeons, or exploration.
JS didnt say that the main means of obtaining specific items should be the TP
and i think even if he did, thats something worthy of challenging. And it gets to the real core of the issue that these players have, which isnt so much about the mechanics of the economics, but the overall economic structure and where/how it leads the ingame society.
This exactly. You guys have me convinced me on a rude way, which I hate you for, that the traiding post flipping serves some purpose. John Smith’s statement also made sense in that way that a gold which was spent two times is more worth than a gold just spent one time. However my point still stands: traiding post flipping should not offer the greatest revenue in game.
Provide facts, not opinions, on why this must be so. Keep in mind that flipping is a legitimate activity in the game.
Read the thread I’ve said it numerous of times…
Fine, just for you:
Normal earning formula: Set amount of gold * time spend = reward.
Traiding post flipping formula: Variable amount of gold * time spent = reward.
This means: No matter how much gold a dungeon runner has, if he runs an ADAP run, he gets around 50g per day.
The traiding post flipper however can get revenues based on the gold he has initially spent. Even if a flipper just starts with 2 gold and just gets 5% more gold every day, he will soon get more gold per day than a dungeon runner.
And please don’t say that’s not how it is because I can assure you that all those guys who have 10k+ gold haven’t done an ADAP run yet.
You have absolutely no idea how much work and time a skilled slipper put into learning the market and how to flip efficiently, do you? You assume that someone can do it right off the bat, which if was the case, there would be no profit from flipping. And again, you saying that there must not be a disparity between those that flip and those that don’t is an opinion.
problem for HHR he feels the value of the merchant lifestyle outstrips the value of the adventurer lifestyle.
So first you have to ask yourself
is this true?
then you have to ask
should it be this way?
then you have to ask
If it shouldnt be this way, how can i change
if it should be this way, then dunno what to tell him.
i wont get into my opinion on the matter, though people can probably guess from my other posts
Is this true? No. Playing the TP is a valid way to play the game.
Should it be this way? Yes. The mechanics allow for it to be done. The API for the TP was released for this very purpose. Even in RL making smart investments, buying and selling stcok etc. is the BEST way to get “rich quick”.
Just because one person has a different perspective on an issue doesnt mean that that is the truth. It just means that that persons perceptive is flawed to what is widely accepted as truth. There is only one version of truth. Period. The world is round, but our perspective is that its flat. That doesn’t change the fact that the world is indeed round.
So how does an adventurer playstyle out-value merchant playstyle as phys put it?
And just because it can be done in the real word doesn’t mean it should be done in game. Neither is the “mainstream” opinion always the right one. And by the way, if you’re 2m above sea level, you can see 5,05 km wide until the earth’s curvature blocks your vision. So the world isn’t as flat as you may think it is.
And just because the “mechanics allow that” doesn’t mean its untouchable or unquestionable. ANet has stopped the champtrain because too many people had made too much gold with it. The traidingpost flipping is the same, just with less people who make more gold.
Just for clarity the champ trains werent stopped because of too much income. The trains were stopped because of the myriad of complaints, the toxic environment caused by someone accidentally killing a champ out of order, and the excessive amount of bots.
Also about the curvature, in order to see that you need to change your perspective (I.e. being in an open area or up high enough)
Also it would seem you missed the post about JS talking about this very thing.
JS post actually didnt answer his problem, JS is saying the TP flipping is valid means of playing the game, and he likes what it does for the mercantile engine.
but the OPs point as i see it is this.
The value returned from flipping is greater than other modes of play.
He doesnt think it should be this way.
JS, in that post didnt say he thought flipping should return 5-10 times as much profit over time as jumping puzzles, dungeons, or exploration.
JS didnt say that the main means of obtaining specific items should be the TP
and i think even if he did, thats something worthy of challenging. And it gets to the real core of the issue that these players have, which isnt so much about the mechanics of the economics, but the overall economic structure and where/how it leads the ingame society.
This exactly. You guys have me convinced me on a rude way, which I hate you for, that the traiding post flipping serves some purpose. John Smith’s statement also made sense in that way that a gold which was spent two times is more worth than a gold just spent one time. However my point still stands: traiding post flipping should not offer the greatest revenue in game.
Provide facts, not opinions, on why this must be so. Keep in mind that flipping is a legitimate activity in the game.
problem for HHR he feels the value of the merchant lifestyle outstrips the value of the adventurer lifestyle.
So first you have to ask yourself
is this true?
then you have to ask
should it be this way?
then you have to ask
If it shouldnt be this way, how can i change
if it should be this way, then dunno what to tell him.
i wont get into my opinion on the matter, though people can probably guess from my other posts
Is this true? No. Playing the TP is a valid way to play the game.
Should it be this way? Yes. The mechanics allow for it to be done. The API for the TP was released for this very purpose. Even in RL making smart investments, buying and selling stcok etc. is the BEST way to get “rich quick”.
Just because one person has a different perspective on an issue doesnt mean that that is the truth. It just means that that persons perceptive is flawed to what is widely accepted as truth. There is only one version of truth. Period. The world is round, but our perspective is that its flat. That doesn’t change the fact that the world is indeed round.
So how does an adventurer playstyle out-value merchant playstyle as phys put it?
And just because it can be done in the real word doesn’t mean it should be done in game. Neither is the “mainstream” opinion always the right one. And by the way, if you’re 2m above sea level, you can see 5,05 km wide until the earth’s curvature blocks your vision. So the world isn’t as flat as you may think it is.
And just because the “mechanics allow that” doesn’t mean its untouchable or unquestionable. ANet has stopped the champtrain because too many people had made too much gold with it. The traidingpost flipping is the same, just with less people who make more gold.
Just for clarity the champ trains werent stopped because of too much income. The trains were stopped because of the myriad of complaints, the toxic environment caused by someone accidentally killing a champ out of order, and the excessive amount of bots.
Also about the curvature, in order to see that you need to change your perspective (I.e. being in an open area or up high enough)
Also it would seem you missed the post about JS talking about this very thing.
JS post actually didnt answer his problem, JS is saying the TP flipping is valid means of playing the game, and he likes what it does for the mercantile engine.
but the OPs point as i see it is this.
The value returned from flipping is greater than other modes of play.
He doesnt think it should be this way.
JS, in that post didnt say he thought flipping should return 5-10 times as much profit over time as jumping puzzles, dungeons, or exploration.
JS didnt say that the main means of obtaining specific items should be the TP
and i think even if he did, thats something worthy of challenging. And it gets to the real core of the issue that these players have, which isnt so much about the mechanics of the economics, but the overall economic structure and where/how it leads the ingame society.
No. The purpose of his post is that he doesn’t think flipping is a legitimate way to acquire gold. The second part about the disparity between those that flip and those that do other activities in the came was just an opinion of his to support his argument.
First off, I don’t see traidingpost flipping as legitimate way to acquire gold, especially not if it’s the most rewarding way to get gold.
One could say that traidingpost flipping requires some sort of skill but I think those guys are ruining enough in real life, they don’t have to be the richest people in-game too.
Those players literally don’t have to play the game at all to get almost everything, while players who are actually playing the game can’t compete with that volume of income.
Suggestion:
Add a new binding mechanic, in addition to account bound or soulbound, that prevent the reselling of items bought from the trading post and the reselling of items gathered/crafted/forged out of items which were bought from the tradingpost.
A few minor thoughts:
The TP is part of the world of Tyria and spending your time interacting with it is just as legitimate a play session as dungeons or jumping puzzles or any of our other fantastic content.
That being said, I see no evidence academically, theoretically or in practice that flipping items on the TP doesn’t push prices closer to equilibrium, eliminate dead weight loss and increase utility/surplus for the market on both the consumer and producer side.
I currently have no plans to limit players interaction with the TP in the world of Tyria in anyway. I believe it would be damaging to the economy, to the game experience and to the players overall.
That being said, if you have a dissenting opinion please discuss it here and voice your beliefs and concerns, we’re always watching and reading and learning and your input has been both intelligent and extremely valuable in the past.
So when you say flipping will result in “lower prices”… how do you mean lower?
He’s speaking in general terms, specific items may vary. But generally speaking, if there is a 10s difference between the highest buy order and lowest sell order, that represents 10s potential profit for a flipper. Usually several individuals start placing buy orders and bidding up the orders, then listing the items they buy and bidding down the sell orders.
So over the course of a day, the buy orders go from 10s to 10s1c, 10s2c, etc. til it reaches 12s. The sell orders go from 20s to 19s99c, 19c99s, etc. til it reaches a bottom price of 18s.
The gap went from 10s to 6s due to flippers competing with each other for sales. Those who are selling to the flippers get 2s more for each item, and those buying from the flippers pay 2s less for each item.
Flipping = better prices for buyers and sellers through competition.
if thats the theory, then its flawed, because if the flipper wasnt there, the buyer could have gotten the items at the flippers initial buy price. IE
player wants 7 silver for his widget, buyer is willing to pay 9 silver. eliminate flipper. and either the buyer gets it for 7, or the seller sells it for 9, or they meet in the middle.
When i sell on ebay, ebays fees dont make my prices cheaper, i basically have to include ebays prices in what i sell. If i didnt have ebay fees i would either get more money, or the seller would get a better deal.
i know about that, and i read it again to see if it had any hidden jewels, i dont see any relation to flipping. In fact according to the part that you linked, the equilibrium price cannot be altered signifigantly, which means a middle man stepping in can only reduce either the profit of the buyer, or the seller or both.
JS however says, that you shouldnt go by the textbook in this case, because the trick to the flipper has to do with what happens when things are out of equilibrium.
Which means it really was pointless to link that page, as our discussion is occuring outside of that situation
There’s more to it that just that link. I’m introducing it gradually to you, and others, so it’s understood. I’ll post the next part that ties in with flipping when I’m back at a computer.
Edit: The following link is more towards what I’m going for. I’m still trying to find a better link that is more generalized and simpler like my previous one.
So when you say flipping will result in “lower prices”… how do you mean lower?
He’s speaking in general terms, specific items may vary. But generally speaking, if there is a 10s difference between the highest buy order and lowest sell order, that represents 10s potential profit for a flipper. Usually several individuals start placing buy orders and bidding up the orders, then listing the items they buy and bidding down the sell orders.
So over the course of a day, the buy orders go from 10s to 10s1c, 10s2c, etc. til it reaches 12s. The sell orders go from 20s to 19s99c, 19c99s, etc. til it reaches a bottom price of 18s.
The gap went from 10s to 6s due to flippers competing with each other for sales. Those who are selling to the flippers get 2s more for each item, and those buying from the flippers pay 2s less for each item.
Flipping = better prices for buyers and sellers through competition.
if thats the theory, then its flawed, because if the flipper wasnt there, the buyer could have gotten the items at the flippers initial buy price. IE
player wants 7 silver for his widget, buyer is willing to pay 9 silver. eliminate flipper. and either the buyer gets it for 7, or the seller sells it for 9, or they meet in the middle.
When i sell on ebay, ebays fees dont make my prices cheaper, i basically have to include ebays prices in what i sell. If i didnt have ebay fees i would either get more money, or the seller would get a better deal.
I love how people can discount economic theory and principles because of differences in the game’s economy vs real life’s economy. Does this mean I can discount theory and principles of gravity on the moon since the moon and Earth are not the same?
These topics constantly pop up on these forums, and other games’ forums, largely because people lack knowledge about economics in general and how economies in games function. The former is understandable as economics is normally not taught in schools so most people are never formally introduced to it. However, one would think that if you were to enter into a discussion about it, that you would at least do a little research first.
Otherwise you run into these discussions where you have arguments based solely in personal observations and opinions that masquerade as facts of how things are or are supposed to be. If everyone did this in the real world then we would make no process but go backwards.
it means that the rules you created due to observation on earth dont actually match up many times to the rules in a different place.
But a closer analogy would mean the physics you apply on earth dont neccesarily match up to the physics that is applied to game.
Except that they do. These are very very basic principles. People lack the knowledge and understanding of them so they immediately discard them as being relevant to the situation.
aspects match up, but a lot doesnt, This is a simulation, its missing many key factors that drive certain economic principles and policies.
One very huge, major one, is that people create items without intent in this game. Another major one is that every item is exactly the same, Another major one is money is printed. Another major one, is the ability to buy gold with an outside source.
There is a huge difference between reality and this game, and even in reality there are multiple ways to skin an economic cat, and various highly educated people with very different solutions to the same problems, and theories.
Its essentially like trying to apply modern psychology to an AI meant to simulate humans. Some things will work because they designed it that way, but other things just wont.
And some people might wonder if you should even try make your AI simulate human psychology.
Have you studied economics and have a firm understanding of it? I only ask because you kind of proved my point.
There will always be inflation. I used “relatively little inflation” in my post to reflect this understanding. It’s just that it’s usually not the cause of substantial price increases of select items that are noticeable to the average player.
I don’t know enough about what’s a good or bad inflation percentage to really answer your question.
well I’m not sure what “select items” mean.
For example people might say only items related to legendary went up in price. But quite honestly, almost every crafted material which traded regularly on the TP went up in price(and that’s quite a big percentage of items)
When I say select items, I mean specific items such as precursors. You have to look at other factors as well before assuming inflation. A lot if crafting item prices went up with ascended gear. Just look at cloth. A lot of people have a misunderstanding of exactly what inflation is and how it is calculated/determined.
There will always be inflation. I used “relatively little inflation” in my post to reflect this understanding. It’s just that it’s usually not the cause of substantial price increases of select items that are noticeable to the average player.
I don’t know enough about what’s a good or bad inflation percentage to really answer your question.
Okay so… over the last few weeks I’ve just started is to tp flipping for my legendary; I’ve done everything from dungeon farming; I know every gold making tactic there is from mystic forging to farming to EoTM and WvW to salvaging so please don’t suggest any of those; this is specifically for the TP. I keep reading in map chat that people are making like 60-300 g just by flipping but I only get like 5-6g from it. What I do is I order like 5-10 stacks of an item I see has a higher supply ratio than demand, I wait overnight and get what I receive and flip it back accounting for the 15% tax and stuff. Now heres what I don’t understand: what am I doing wrong? I even have a spreadsheet for projecting profits but each day I can only net like maximum 6g.
Quite honestly, I dont’ know how to make money from daily flipping too.
What I know is there are items you can invest, and in a few month, the item might double in price. Basically it is not too hard to turn 1000 gold to 2000 gold if you have the initial money.
For example if you buy leather everyday at 8 copper, and sell them at 16 copper, you already double your money from the festival of four winds. Black lion weapon is another not too bad investment. If you bought a bunch of permanent bank license early, you’ll be very rich.
That being said the reason it is so easy to double your money over a few month is probably due to inflation because every item went up in price.
I think the daily flippers play this game like excel sheet wall. You need to find ways to automate, for example a crafter taught me to make money, and he do it through API (whatever that is).
I wanted to make a correction to what I bolded in your post. There’s relatively little inflation going on as pointed out by John Smith in another thread. What you’re seeing are fluctuations in prices of certain items due to changes in demand and supply. This occurs quite often as the game is always in flux and changing. New sources of an item or a nerf of a source can impact supply. Demand can be increased with a new recipe.
Do you mean a new thread or old thread. Because the newer thread I think John Smith start saying inflation is under controlled, and regulated inflation can be good to the economy.
It was a thread titled “inflation” I believe. It may or may not still be on the first page of this subforum. Bleh, I went ahead and found his post.
I honestly can’t believe this thread is still going.
Didn’t any of you take economics in high school? I mean, even just basics?
Flipping doesn’t need to be stopped. Nor do I see those people as doing anything wrong. If that’s how they enjoy playing, more power to ‘em. They’re smarter than me lol.
It’s not offered in a lot of high schools. I can’t give you an exact percentage but I’m sure there have been recent articles about it within the past couple of years. It’s normally lumped up with personal finance classes.
Okay so… over the last few weeks I’ve just started is to tp flipping for my legendary; I’ve done everything from dungeon farming; I know every gold making tactic there is from mystic forging to farming to EoTM and WvW to salvaging so please don’t suggest any of those; this is specifically for the TP. I keep reading in map chat that people are making like 60-300 g just by flipping but I only get like 5-6g from it. What I do is I order like 5-10 stacks of an item I see has a higher supply ratio than demand, I wait overnight and get what I receive and flip it back accounting for the 15% tax and stuff. Now heres what I don’t understand: what am I doing wrong? I even have a spreadsheet for projecting profits but each day I can only net like maximum 6g.
Quite honestly, I dont’ know how to make money from daily flipping too.
What I know is there are items you can invest, and in a few month, the item might double in price. Basically it is not too hard to turn 1000 gold to 2000 gold if you have the initial money.
For example if you buy leather everyday at 8 copper, and sell them at 16 copper, you already double your money from the festival of four winds. Black lion weapon is another not too bad investment. If you bought a bunch of permanent bank license early, you’ll be very rich.
That being said the reason it is so easy to double your money over a few month is probably due to inflation because every item went up in price.
I think the daily flippers play this game like excel sheet wall. You need to find ways to automate, for example a crafter taught me to make money, and he do it through API (whatever that is).
I wanted to make a correction to what I bolded in your post. There’s relatively little inflation going on as pointed out by John Smith in another thread. What you’re seeing are fluctuations in prices of certain items due to changes in demand and supply. This occurs quite often as the game is always in flux and changing. New sources of an item or a nerf of a source can impact supply. Demand can be increased with a new recipe.
I love how people can discount economic theory and principles because of differences in the game’s economy vs real life’s economy. Does this mean I can discount theory and principles of gravity on the moon since the moon and Earth are not the same?
These topics constantly pop up on these forums, and other games’ forums, largely because people lack knowledge about economics in general and how economies in games function. The former is understandable as economics is normally not taught in schools so most people are never formally introduced to it. However, one would think that if you were to enter into a discussion about it, that you would at least do a little research first.
Otherwise you run into these discussions where you have arguments based solely in personal observations and opinions that masquerade as facts of how things are or are supposed to be. If everyone did this in the real world then we would make no process but go backwards.
it means that the rules you created due to observation on earth dont actually match up many times to the rules in a different place.
But a closer analogy would mean the physics you apply on earth dont neccesarily match up to the physics that is applied to game.
Except that they do. These are very very basic principles. People lack the knowledge and understanding of them so they immediately discard them as being relevant to the situation.
I love how people can discount economic theory and principles because of differences in the game’s economy vs real life’s economy. Does this mean I can discount theory and principles of gravity on the moon since the moon and Earth are not the same?
They have a point, the economic system in the game is a simulation and lacks many things that exist in the real world. For example I could save nearly every bit of coin I get in the game while saving up for Cultural armor or a Legendary, while in the real world there are recurring costs I can’t avoid like food and shelter that require a good chunk of my income. I’ll never be able to save up enough money for a Rolls Royce limosine, for example, because I can only put aside a small portion of my income towards it.
But they distort the facts to serve their argument and ignore anything that contradicts them… this can happen on both sides of an argument.
Yes, you don’t have recurring costs in the game that reduces your income significantly like expenses in the real world. There will always inevitably be differences; however, this does not mean that well established economic principles and be discarded which was my point. They state that something doesn’t apply because of such and such difference when in fact it still does.
I love how people can discount economic theory and principles because of differences in the game’s economy vs real life’s economy. Does this mean I can discount theory and principles of gravity on the moon since the moon and Earth are not the same?
These topics constantly pop up on these forums, and other games’ forums, largely because people lack knowledge about economics in general and how economies in games function. The former is understandable as economics is normally not taught in schools so most people are never formally introduced to it. However, one would think that if you were to enter into a discussion about it, that you would at least do a little research first.
Otherwise you run into these discussions where you have arguments based solely on personal observations and opinions that masquerade as facts of how things are or are supposed to be. If everyone did this in the real world then we would make no progress but go backwards.
Book or game is irrelevant. Cliffhangers are endings used as plot devices to build up anticipation/drama. Very little story content was contained in this episode to warrant the usage of a cliffhanger unlike the end of Season 1. The section in the rented room was more than enough and especially since it’s only the first episode. You usually do not see cliffhangers until things really get going.
Imagine if an actual expansion were released. They’d probably finish it in a week and demand another one. People who blast through content on the first day will have to realize that they will never be satisfied with enough content to keep them occupied until the next release. Casuals would be so overwhelmed that they would never be able to catch up.
This is coming from someone who does go through the content quickly each time. I have other things to do and don’t need one single game to preoccupy all of my free time.
Would you prefer a “To Be Continued…” to pop up on the screen? It’s a chapter and there really does not need to be an ending. In books, do you see endings at the end of a chapter? The “ending”, if any, would be the revelations of what occurred when they searched that room and the more questions in brought setting the tone for the next living story.
This can’t happen.As i told before,this is just for solo queue matches.Lfg system has nothing to do with solo queues.So there is asbolutely no way of abusing the surrender vote.
You completely missed what my post. You can abuse LFG by join a group and voting to boot everyone in a map. Some people do this to dungeon sellers. People can join a random solo queue map and vote to surrender or just spam the vote option.
