Guild Wars 2

By stating “I submit” you may as well have said you’re not good enough in all honesty.

Not that there’s anything wrong with that considering not many people can handle completely melee specs on Warrior.

Better luck next time I guess. Some people are fated to stagnate and some people are fated to evolve, pretty much all there is to it.

Also to the guy who thinks Frenzy HB was anywhere near OP and deserved that nerf, you’re probably still bad even today.

Probably thinks z-axis tele is balanced but thinks quickness is broken cause your reaction time is bad.

The Quickness Era actually took a lot of skill because landing your burst required extreme precision and dodging burst required reaction time. Of course this game is way better than the Hambow/Spirit Ranger meta right now, but to say the Quickness Era wasn’t skill based has got to be the dumbest thing to say ever.

Aylpse.6280:

The game is more balanced then you think, Celestial was too weak before, now its too strong. And its the one big kitten stain (hehehe that censorship works well with this sentience.) the game has.

The issue isn’t truly balance, but the players. Someone will always find something OP. Once cele is nerfed, something new will take its place. (However please kill off OP Cele Anet)

Players? Explain how you make “triple physical utilities” on Warrior work then.

It’s not the players enforcing the meta, it is MOSTLY ANET.

Ranger is an L2P issue for sure but it does not change the fact that Ranger takes absolutely no skill. This has been the problem with that class since launch.

Some builds such as Signet of Fury for example is just absolute garbage. You literally crippled your team considering Frenzy is a much better choice or zerker stance or even stomp.

Like some people literally play bad builds that are legitimately bad because they have no idea what the other utilities do. In which case, you may as well say don’t flame “new players” though that is a hard task to accomplish.

Then you get the people from the Warrior forums who think shoutbow is the only viable build yet fails to “improve” further. Which goes back to that point where “meta” just translates into “effective for zero effort” such as shoutbow. This doesn’t only mean the Warrior forums are at fault though, other people are too.

And then you get the “sleeper” builds which people think are troll builds but are actually strong builds for when you are good at the game. The same people who call “sleeper builds” troll are probably too accustomed to see-ing the world as flat even though it’s been proven that the world is round. Probably talentless too because they only play easy mode and make opinions off of that.

TL;DR actually read my abstract.

20 seconds Steal = instant cast, not hard to land
40 seconds Corrupt Boon = ranged and easy to land

While z-axis tele didn’t get nerfed properly this patch, this change may as well be kittenous change to mirror that braindead z-axis teleport abuse.

All in one day.

Que pops when a match is already happening.

Ping randomly spikes to 1k.

And changing characters before the match starts puts you in the heart of the mists.

Why is today so buggy?

WOWWW they nerfed that to the ground? Sigh.

The meta is realistically “the most played build due to how easy and effective it is”

Look at shoutbow, the slick shoes utility and 16-20 second gear shield, Elementalists in general other than staff maybe, and Guardian in general specially when oRNG beat abjured with a Hammer Guard.

Certain things will not make it into the “meta” because they are hard to play such as DPS Warrior. Like you will probably get away 1 spamming people with frenzy chop, but that can only get you so far if you’re bad at landing slow stuns and chain CC’ing people from 100-0 anyways.

DPS Warrior is actually not a joke. DPS Warr is actually better than Thief/MediGuard/Mesmer when ganking slick shoes Cele Engi or Shoutbows for example.

http://www.twitch.tv/blacktruth009/c/6269321
http://www.twitch.tv/blacktruth009/c/6259903

Warrior is one of the few classes which can completely negate Quickness (Which is still good with the class if played as DPS) trade-off therefore having ridiculous cleave if you know how to land 1/2 casting time stuns and 130 range. Warrior is also one of the few DPSers that can stand on a point for more than a few seconds compared to Thief and Mesmer for example, which means Warrior as a DPS can allow your team to stand off point for a bit and then re-engage.

The problem with DPS Warrior is that it can’t abuse vertical axis teleport so it has no mobility, it doesn’t have better escapes either, and it’s DPS isn’t the most reliable DPS to land to down someone in the first place. But this is balanced by the fact that they can face-tank focus fire as a DPS AND can cleave downed bodies better.

P.S People calling Warrior low skill floor low skill cap just because of shoutbow are stupidly ignorant and has never played chain CC DPS Mace/Shield + Axe/Mace before.

dominik.9721:

He’s just mad that Greatsword warrior with berserker stats isn’t optimal in PvP
:<

More like he’s mad he can’t make it work even though it works to an extent.

You want a heal that completely mitigates burst, makes people not want to attack you for 3 seconds, and heals off of conditions too, to have no casting time?

Again, it’d be better if Warrior wasn’t as easy as Guardian. And the complaint back then is because “Healing Signet” is un-interruptable.

Don’t fix what isn’t broken. In-fact, you want it to be more faster casting? Get good with DPS Warrior and use Frenzy. Problem solved.

Turtle Dragon.9241:

Previously, I tried posting a thread asking for which skills/traits behave differently in sPvP on every profession, and got very few answers. On the other hand, it seems other classes have some skills that even do extra damage in sPvP such as Warrior’s Whirling Axe.

Guardian:
Save Yourselves only works for 1/2 the duration
Selfless Daring only heals for 1/2 the amount
Retaliation does 33% less damage

Is Guardian the only class that gets heavily nerfed in sPvP?

Guardian has been meta since launch.

1.) One of the easiest classes to play in the game
2.) Effective for very little effort because instant cast and skills such as Hammer 5
3.) And just so much team support such as Stand your Ground, blind spam, block spam.

Once again, people will refuse to understand this even though oRNG beat abjured with a Guard.

Patchi.9061:

There is counter to all of them. Please stop complaining about it, it’s a learn to play issue

That aside I think their cool down is pretty low for what they offer , so what is “overpowered” is the fact they have really short cool down.

Slick shoes and Ward just waits out stability then GG. You think it’s hard to bait out cool downs on Hammer Guard or Cele Engi? LMAO.

Entangle and Fear me have EASIER counterplay such as getting condi cleansed by others. The complaint is Ward and Slick Shoes is harder to deal with for the same cool downs, why is it so hard to understand balancing?

Abusing vertical range and calling it skill

Specially Ele and Guardian.

Phaeton.9582:

this isn’t about balance. don’t make this about balance. this thread is about limiting gameplay, and people that just want to play deathmatch and/or warriors voicing their support.

What? Limiting gameplay? Did you seriously just use such a fail argument? High level play is also pidgeon holed into having an Ele because in Foefire, for example, they can blink through ledges AND watch points effectively or decap effectively because of it.

You’re saying the vertical range teleport doesn’t enforce the meta in a sense? Please.

Also, you’re saying that vertical range teleport is balanced? Okay let’s give Warrior and Engi’s a high jump.

You’re just worked up because you won’t be able to abuse broken mechanics anymore Phaeton. And I don’t believe you were ever good on your Warrior back in the Quickness days to know “what is high skill cap” and what isn’t. Smart move to re-roll into Guardian.

One thing about zerk builds is that if you’re absolutely bad at the game, don’t even use it

Also don’t bother playing crap that’s only going to work with team coordination in ranked que.

You get the most ridiculously incompetent people it’s not even funny. Also the match making system is still bad, sometimes you will get que’d against a top player and four decent premades while you yourself gets que’d with 4 randoms who have no idea what to do.

Back then Quickness what was made Warrior somehow viable back when it was 100% attack speed increase. Right now apparently it is the same analogy for Thief and Mesmer where abusing vertical range is what makes them viable.

The difference between the two is that Warrior back in the days was completely crippled by the incompetent nerf for Quickness because EVERYONE knew that they would need heavy compensation after the Quickness nerf.

Thief and Mesmer on the other hand will need to wait whether they will need that compensation or not because I don’t believe that this nerf will make them completely useless when the nerf happens as soon as the patch hits.

Sword/Axe is okay. It really isn’t bad

Unsuspecting Foe is bad. Builds that use 04604 are just flat out bad because it requires you to CC people to deal damage. If I could deal the same amount of damage whether the target is CC’d or not, I’d rather pick that route.

The only way unsuspecting foe will be useful realistically is if they make unsuspecting foe back to adept. If you count the Skull Crack nerf and the adrenaline nerfs, this should be fair game.

And even then for a GS build, the 40604 is still superior. Maybe even 60404. For a skull crack + axe/mace build though? 20606 all the way, no contest.

It’s bad and design, yeah. But so is slick shoes and hammer guard ring.

The difference between entangle, slick shoes and guard ring even though those are ALL EASY to land is that at least entangle doesn’t eat through evades and can be cleansed by others.

Where is the problem again?

Like Ranger as a class has been notorious for being stupidly easy to play but when you look at slick shoes and guard ring for a “kill set up” then entangle is the LEAST of your concern.

Wait til the OP complains about fear me though, the hypocrisy is real.

I know some of what I say can be very unreasonable, it’s just that I don’t understand how people think the old 100% Quickness is broken but not vertical range teleport.

Vertical Range teleport makes it so you have to mirror a guy who abuses vertical range with a class that could do it and it just enforces the meta in a sense when it comes to conquest. Not to mention it affects map control as a whole more than Quickness could ever do. DO NOT even get me started on how easy it is to wait other people’s cool downs out when you abuse vertical range teleport. This is A LOT more anti-fun than the old quickness, just that people refuse to understand.

Like “Long Bow Ranger” isn’t even a good argument by going against vertical range tele change, Ranger is like a braindead anti-fun class and their easiness needs to be fixed to receive any real “fix” as a class.

Of course compensation needs to happen much like what needed to happen with the Quickness nerf a long time ago, but they HAVE TO BE CAREFUL not to make the same mistakes that they did on the past.

This change should affect Thief and Mesmer the most and will maybe need compensation but I will say good riddance to Guardian and Ele.

Whatever “conspiracy” theory is happening where sodapoppin starts streaming right before PAX and GW2 sale, it’s for a greater cause :x

The fact that nightblue joined in just makes everything better.

Phaeton.9582:

ronpierce.2760:

Phaeton.9582:

this has to be a joke

only new players would have a problem vertical with ports. no exceptions.

What? A lot of people have ‘a problem’ with people exploiting a map to have unintended mobility.

Zero good players.

Just trying to further lower the skill cieling for more money.

It’s kinda pathetic that people think Vertical Range is fair game. It’s just as pathetic when people think Guardian is anywhere near hard to play just because it has “instant cast skills” which you can “time.” Couple that with a vertical range teleport, it’s just flat out cancer. Guardian’s don’t need that crap. So do Ele’s. It’s for a greater cause even though Thief and Mesmer will get hit by it.

In-fact if “Guardians” are gonna get worked up over this change then that’s just fail.

If Ranger are people’s argument for fixing vertical range then can ANET just please make Ranger less braindead as a class then?

Cause really that’s whats anti-fun about Rangers, they just take absolutely no skill and kitten people off with AI and Long Bow. Let’s start by like making them easier to kill such as nerfing some of the evades on weapon sets if thats what it takes for people to understand that the vertical range teleport nerf needs to happen.

Vertical Range teleport is cancer anyways. Even the old quickness was more balanced.

I suppose going axe/mace with 6 points in strength and discipline would make it deal a lot of damage.

But there really is somewhat no point considering 6 defense is just too good if you ever try to play dps warr.

Match making is probably gonna be stupidly RNG no matter what because the people that you get will be random.

I mean look at LoL, people at diamond still making bronze mistakes.

Rifle’s like okay right now. But okay isn’t enough. I think Mace is borderline OP when you’re good with it just because it’s so well-designed. It’s balanced right now because it can be hard to play under certain circumstances.

http://www.twitch.tv/blacktruth009/c/6269321

http://www.twitch.tv/blacktruth009/c/6259903

For reference.

If Rifle could do something of equal caliber that would be great. They probably could make “crack shot” a built-in thing so you don’t have to trait for Rifle. That would be a big buff but that would make Rifle have a place without making it broken.

Also, try to stay away from the Warrior forums and watch my stream, Tarcis, or ROM if you want to get better at PvP.

People on this forums don’t do anything but complain.

That’s why a mix of cele and zerker type of meta would be great. I don’t want cele to disappear because then you’re buffing other cancerous crap such as evade spam.

This is probably the best meta atm other than the typical turret engi and easy mode d/d ele.

If you’re going to play Frenzy, I don’t believe you’re going to do well without zerk stance. Zerk Stance + Frenzy is kinda strong.

Rousing Resilience is crappy no matter what. It has synergy with Armored Attack, but I don’t believe it’s gonna work better than even Spiked Armor. Carrion S/S + Hammer, just absolutely no synergy with the condi damage. Any Hammer spec will probably need Soldiers/Sentinels/Knight’s.

If you’re going to make builds, it needs to make some sort of sense. I’ll give my Mace+Hammer spec as an example in a bit.

It’s not as good as you think it may be. I think melee DPS is still more rewarding.

1.) Long Bow right now is balanced because it’s easy to play yet not as rewarding as some DPS builds.

2.) Fast hands isn’t necessary tbh, but it’s a really good trait BECAUSE the strongest Warrior build just happened to use Mace. And Mace requires fast hands.

3.) It’s really sad that you don’t see the complexity with stances for a guy who played Warrior “since launch.” If you burn two stances, you need to make sure you’re good at baiting two of theirs. You can even do it with one stance if you’re good with mace I guess. Granted that this is hard but this should be visible to people who are attached to the class. It’s a “cancelling out” thing, it is not simply press defensive mechanics and call it skill.

4.) I agree with Bulls Charge needing love. A cool down reduction or a range increase or a damage increase. ANYTHING.

5.) If they make Cleansing Ire cleanse conditions when adrenaline depletes and even when burst skills miss, then you just made Warrior braindead much like Guardian, Ranger, and Ele right now. People eventually want to play something which requires effort the moment they become good at the game.

Also DPS builds can out-damage conditions anyways if you’re good with zerk stance is running. Granted that people have already learned how to count dodges and bait cool downs.

6.) You want to buff Brawlers recovery? I can understand blinds though reckless dodge is already good for that, but poison? The challenge should be “how do I manipulate condi removal and cleanse poison to keep myself sustained.” Not press tab and win and then call it skill.

The only realistic change that I’d want to see “trait-wise” is that thick skin should be something else like “Immune to blind once every 20 seconds.”

witcher.3197:

Metabattle does have the answer: having no lonbow sucks. Hard. :P There are some WvW builds that are perfectly viable without longbow, but they all fail in PvP.

And longbow is not a bunker weapon at all, many burst builds use for instance Axe or GS warriors.

Frenzy doesn’t suck in competitive play, people are just bad at using them or are too attached to easy builds such as shoutbow and hambow cause lack of mechanics. That’s all. Sure it doesn’t duel as well but there are ways to get around that such as rotating better and ganking better.

http://www.twitch.tv/blacktruth009/c/6269321

Rampage is god tier right now for DPS Warrior. You can’t simply not have it.

YuiRS.8129:

That’s the question. I hate the Longbow bunker brainless playstyle with a passion. Is there any way to play something else without being a detriment to your team? Metabattle.com doesn’t have an answer.

http://www.twitch.tv/blacktruth009/c/6259903

http://www.twitch.tv/blacktruth009/c/6152446

But they take A LOT of skill to play. You have to be patient.

P.S Try to not listen to the whiners like the guy above me, listen to yourself and just keep being a better player while you’re at it.

^
Shoutbow isn’t exactly a real bunker either because the best way to play it is.. not as a Bunker, but as a pseudo-carry.

If it was so good at bunkering then why is shoutbow so easy to decap and has a hard time dodging focus fire compared to Ele and Engi?

Right now the only viable point holder is really Ele.

Sykper.6583:

PvE: Currently lower-mid tier DPS, but Banner will always keep us wanted. You can interpret that however you please, personally the very last waves of nerfs were in my opinion, unnecessary. Still, we are fun to play.

WvW: Kind of a moot point, every profession actually has a decent enough role (except maybe thieves, given the whole state of ‘zergs win the mode’ in which thieves might be the least useful of the professions in a zerg, roaming they are kings) so nothing to say here.

PvP: This is where things get a bit complicated, so I will reestablish a point I made many a times back when Warriors were strong or weak. Warriors are pigeon-holed into half their weapons and utilities to run across all viable specs in PvP. The issue is that these viable specs, due to their focus on such few traits or utilities, often change in power level far more radically when even one thing gets changed.

If you want, I could name every single useless skill a warrior has, that if given a tune-up might change the way you see current warriors work. But I don’t think that is necessary, any warrior who has actually put time in the profession already knows which skills I am referring to, which weapons suck in all forms, which traits really shouldn’t be in these trees.

I have been sad that Warriors really haven’t changed since launch, they really haven’t.

It’s called immune to condis and the ability to “delay” a point even as a glass cannon. Back then Warriors wouldn’t be able to do this. Back then shouts weren’t viable either. Warrior right now has more than one spec that they can use in competitive play because it’s actually a well-designed class.

I’m going to keep saying that most people who play Warrior (Specially the ones on the forums) are just bad at the class. That’s all there is, like people have NOT been able to move on after the hambow nerf or are simply scared to take risks.

I’m talking about PvP. Like people have NEVER bothered doing basic things such as dodge counting and baiting stun breaks for the life of them either. Warrior is just THAT rewarding when you’re good at the game, specially with the basic stuff that I mentioned.

http://www.twitch.tv/blacktruth009/c/6259903

It’s not GW2 launch anymore folks, move on. And follow my stream instead of wasting time on the forums.

Vertical range teleport you mean? That’s always been a stupidly strong advantage that a teleport class had against a class that couldn’t even teleport to begin with.

I’m glad they’re fixing this crap if what you’re saying is what I think it is.

It isn’t “high skill cap” either, all you do is memorize the blink spot and call it skill. And I don’t think Thief will be the only class to be hurt by this, Ele will be too (good riddance).

The reason why shoutbow is balanced compared to other cele builds is because delaying a point with it is near impossible. It has no stability and it can’t really get protection on demand unless people are stupid enough to give you vulnerability without keeping track of your warhorn skills.

Shoutbow also gets destroyed by all-in rush down ganks. Because again, you don’t have super mobility like Ele, you don’t have protection on demand, and fear me is a 48 second cool down which can be CONDI CLEANSED. That means it can be stun broken by team mates cleansing it for you.

Look at what Ele and Engi can do on the other hand.

Engi can just use slick shoes which is probably one of the easiest CC to land in the game to delay a point and peel for himself. Doesn’t help that Engi can also get protection injection, a 16 second shield, and crate.

Ele can use ride the lightning, teleport, and fire GS to escape and reposition to make delaying a point better. Not to mention ridiculous protection up-time and decent condi clear.

The only thing shoutbow has over the cele specs is that they cleanse condis better and they heal team mates better. That’s about it, at least they’re easy to kill because all you have to do is count their dodges and bait their cool downs hard. Ele and Engi on the other hand, you have to pay attention to so many things it’s aggravating. Like Ele and Engi can dodge focus fire harder than shoutbow can and still be strong in their own way.

I think hundred blades needs to be faster casting AND will need a damage reduction in turn. The damage reduction shouldn’t make it so that you’re better off auto-attacking though.

http://www.twitch.tv/blacktruth009/c/6259903

I really wish the cool down was shorter or the damage was higher on Bulls Charge. It’s really not a bad utility but it’s going to need something for sure. I like the idea of Bulls Charge being strong by itself though.

Maybe quickness shouldn’t lower the travel range as a start..

The Gates Assassin.9827:

PvP Forum Specialist here

Few questions about this build:

Show Spoiler

hide spoiler

1. Is the problem banner? – Let’s say the build didn’t have War Banner. Would you still think this build is too strong?
2. Is the problem killing it? – I tend to find that these die fairly quickly in team fights, but super slow in small engagements.
3. What do you usually fight it with? – What are your tactics for fighting it, if at all

1.) Banner is interruptible and a long cool down anyways
2.) No. It’s easy to kill when you learn how to rotate. In team fights it’s much stronger for sure. But still very kill-able once you learn how to count dodges and cool downs.
3.) I personally fight it with chain CC DPS Warrior. When there is proper focus fire and people aren’t kitten ing around, it’s easy to kill it. Sometimes I can even 1v1 it even though DPS Warrior isn’t made for 1v1s. I suppose D/P thief timing the daze so combustive shot can’t be casted to cleanse poison isn’t bad either.

TL;DR people complain about shoutbow because they are either new or aren’t good players.

P.S Some people complain about shoutbow being the only viable build for Warrior, but then again look at the TL;DR.

YES please buff physical utilities for sure.

Those are overshadowed by stances and shouts.

Personally I’d love to see bulls charge get a cool down reduction in all honesty. The rest of the suggestion isn’t bad either.

It can be okay but not stronger than Axe/Mace when you’re good at Warrior.

http://www.twitch.tv/blacktruth009/c/6152446

Frenzy or gtfo XD

Go big or go home when playing DPS basically.

If we get rid of hotjoin and get people to do ques, we’ll have actual match making.

GS isn’t good. Axe/Mace is the better DPS set-up for when you’re good at the class.

Must be so hard to understand that Shoutbow can only have 3 dodges within a small time frame and one stun break every 20 seconds. Must be so hard to understand how easy it is to bait out shouts with both CC, condi, and direct damage.

It’s like the only close to balanced cele spec in the game because of the fact that it is probably the easiest to kill out of the cele meta.

TL;DR Shoutbow is without a doubt easy to play and easy to understand, but at least it’s reasonable to deal with. I mean look at abjured, they don’t even need a shoutbow considering Ele and Engi are technically stronger.

P.S He thinks Warrior is low-skill cap but bases his “opinion” on shoutbow. Yawn. He even said Hambow took more skill, real?