Guild Wars 2

Balancing is a problem. For example, a build that can duel shouldn’t be able to handle plus/gank. Look at D/D ele and Cele Engi, just so braindead broken. At least the meta version of shoutbow is easy to gank compared to these duel/cele builds.

Bad decisions in getting casuals into the game such as Turret Engi when the proper way to get casuals into the game is to make Courtyard into a separate que. You could argue that they don’t have the technology to make it a separate que to attract casuals to spare them from knowing how to rotate, but still it’s just such a bad decision to keep it like this.

It’s really just the bad decision making is the root of the problem from arena net’s side.

kdaddy.5431:

choovanski.5462:

kdaddy.5431:

dude it looks like you just got outplayed

lol… you know who Orange Logo are right…

I do, it doesnt mean he isnt getting lazy or using a build that doesnt work. My favorite class is warrior and if i use a utility skills warrior and say im done with this game because the skills i like for my class are absolutely useless in pvp, what are you going to say to me?

If you look at the list he getting his with some normal attacks and we also dont know the dmg hes putting out or the cleansing hes trying to use in those moments. If OE came on here right now to say he full of it would we stop and say OE can say what ever he wants?

No you take each situation as its own and look at the facts given and make your assumption on what happened. This dude could be the best gw2 player ever but maybe hes just frustrated with the passive play style of dmg in the game. Him showing the dmg of attacks for *X k dmg doesnt help anything.

The problem is.. the game is taking less and less skill in a sense that it is becoming more anti-fun than anything. That’s the whole root of the problem.

Like ANET is NOT doing a good job at attracting casual players either with how they are making the game more “available” for casuals.

kdaddy.5431:

choovanski.5462:

http://youtu.be/90L5Rw1YdwQ
Example of good defiant stance use. Condi dmg to health would be a nice addition to the skill, but it’s still a hard to use heal. BlackTruth really is the only person I’ve seen to make the heal work, hopefully he inputs something of use here.

Regardless surge and mending are getting buffed by being transformed into a shout and physical skill respectively. I will be running surge on my shout warrior when the patch hits, and 16sec cd mending with the new physical skills buffs should bring zerker warrior back. I’m so pumped for the warrior changes I don’t care about the elite specification.

Its a nice vid and thanks for sharing but he knew the builds he was facing and knew when he wanted to use it. Which wouldnt be the case in 5 vs 5 random/tourney style.

sidenote they were funny

I’m considering Mending vs. cele comps tbh but I believe defiant stance can still give you better effective HP with the right team comp. And even by yourself? It’s guaranteed 3 seconds of survivability on top of Endure Pain and Zerker stance against all types of damage. Not to mention it deletes the trade-off with Frenzy which is big for a DPS spec that can actually make plays.

The core problem is that.. it gets kited. And the challenge on the hard and effective specs is to figure out how to not get kited. But in a team fight with potential team lock down it’s extremely valuable.

Bran.7425:

Read the argument it still sound like want not need.

But is it going to make Warrior broken? Most likely not considering discipline is still a strong tree without counting fast hands.

Say I did Strength + Arms + Elite Spec and fast hands becomes baseline, it probably wouldn’t hurt to do that knowing that other classes will get kittened power creep anyways.

A guy with zero competitive play presence telling people to L2P. The balancing decisions actually matter and make a difference, though you’re too green to understand anything.

Stay classy, casual.

This game is dead, once again. That’s why that’s happening.

Would like to add, when I meant baiting dodges, I meant look at the cool down of Kill Shot compared to Pin Down and then counting stow weapon mind games. I would say Rifle procs fire/air better too because the projectile speed just feels reliable on a zerker build. This is ALL based on my views on a zerker build btw.

I don’t believe Long Bow is better than Rifle as Zerker.

Aktium.9506:

BurrTheKing.8571:

Any sort of Pet/AI seems unlikely

I don’t think Warrior getting AI is unlikely at all. For example Warrior could get a spec called Warlord or General or something like that and get soldiers or like soldier spirits they call to battle. Like, healing skill is a called Mender/Healer and goes around healing and buffing you until killed and then you could have generic soldier summons like Archer, Footman, Squire, Pikeman and Fighter for the utilities.

Aragorn? Something like the Oathbreakers would be nice and all but that sounds like a Necro/Revenant thing.

Baiting dodges. How? F1, Volley, fire/air, and it’s safe because 1200 range though you have no mobility but that’s kinda fine.

Oh, and it has advantage in open world.

Apolo.5942:

Please consider that passive healing and the ability to sponge damage is what defines the warrior. I play warrior and not a guardian because of the damage it can soak, beacuse of its passive healing, that is what we look for in the warrior.

Do not do the guardian shield vs focus treatment to the active vs passive effects of the signet.

If you want people to use the active more, buff it, do not nerf its passive.

They’re giving it resistance. That’s good.

That’s actually smart, if people could only rally within a reasonably short range then it would add a lot more risk to the game. I guess they really should nerf “rally” by doing this then so the rallybot problem gets alleviated a little bit.

Kagamiku.9731:

Jelzouki.4128:

Cele ele and engi are a lot easier to kill than a shoutbow that has 27k HP and ridiculous cleansing.

False.

Cele ele is the hardest build to kill. Shoutbow is wrecked by stun heavy compositions and burst damage. Ele’s high protection and stability uptime even make it hard for either of those to stop them. And when all else fails…Lightning Flash and they’re gone.

As for Cele engi, true, they’re a little easier to kill, but in place of that they do absurd damage while still being really hard to kill. Plus Gear Shield and Overcharged shot are ridiculous skills that help them avoid a lot of damage they would otherwise take.

Cele Engi can be harder to kill if they know how to jumping puzzle or bait your cds before you bait theirs. And if they use Vampirism + Elixir S, good luck catching them with a burst comp. I believe the guy you replied to is just basing his opinion on the bronze ELO level of play/has no competitive play presence.

Ranger doesnt need a nerf, they need to stay as is and never receive any changes OR make them take more skill by reworking the whole class.

Ranger is just braindead no matter how you build it really, and that’s always going to be the problem with it. Other classes such as Necro, Engi, Warrior, Thief, Mesmer, actually have a “hard and effective” build. Why can’t Ranger, Guard, Ele get any?

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

how about we ….

make cleansing ire into a grandmaster trait, but make “embrace the pain” baseline and then restore cleansing ire to what it originally was before?

Cleansing Ire | Major Grandmaster Trait
“Remove a condition for every bar of adrenaline spent.”

discuss!

I’ll take it

The real cancer that destroys PvP are the balance devs from day 1 tbh. Hopefully Robert Gee can correct the mistakes of Karl Mclain, he is like the hero that we need atm.

Knighthonor.4061:

For the elite specialization, assuming no two classes get the same new skill type,

what skill type remaining that you dont want?

NO AI’s please, don’t ever suggest AI’s like spirit weapons or phantasms or anything like turret engi.

Survival makes sense. “Conjure” might make sense I think and Glyph. Kits somewhat doesn’t make sense but if they had the technology to integrate a 3rd weapon through that mechanic then so be it. Venom sounds decent. Gadget? Too many things that are already ruled out if they’re not using the same thing over and over.

Warlord.9074:

It would be just like ele or enji, they have the technology to do this. They wont do it though. They are more likly to give us a F2.

Yeah but Ele’s attunements don’t need to be “equipped.” They are integrated no matter what.

It honestly feels like they would have to “hardcode” the game to make triple swap happen.

And if they did Kits, what kind of kits is Warrior going to have? Do they make new skill sets for the kits then? I don’t know how coding works for ANET tbh.

Triple swap would be so much fun though they have to think of a different way to make the specialization crazy.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

hello, fellow warriors!

so i heard that we want thick skin gone, or replaced etc …
what if …

we replace
Thick Skin
“Gain extra armor while your health is above the threshold.”
Health threshold: 90%
Toughness: +100

with
Turtle’s Defense
“Gain +200 toughness when crippled, chilled, stunned, or immobilized.”

so …
discuss!

That’s what I’ve been saying tbh. 200 toughness is something and it isn’t really broken when you’re chilled. It’s only going to mitigate decimals of a second from dying I suppose.

Triple swap would be crazy I would love that to happen. Sadly I don’t think they have the technology for that even if they could take away some things to balance it out.

pdavis.8031:

So I seem to remember in several discussions that dual axe warrior was “suboptimal”. And that Axe/mace was essentially higher DPS and “meta”.

Now according to metabattle. A/A warrior is the “meta”

http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Warrior_-_Dual-Axe/GS_Farmer

Granted this is for open world content, not dungeons.

I don’t normally follow the “meta” or anything. But just found this curious as Axe OH was considered lower DPS than mace, and didn’t really do much.

Axe/mace is NOT meta atm because there’s only a few people who can even make it work. It is much stronger than GS though when you’re good at the class.

For the majority? A DPS spec.

I can fulfill w/e role needs to be with Warrior though in sPvP cause I actually care about getting better.

Ranger is just one of those classes which take absolutely no skill no matter how you build it tbh.

It’s just one of the worst designed classes, you give it something crazy, it will become FOTM annoying/broken kinda like spirit ranger.

Like Long Bow ranger for example? You don’t dodge the pet you will get knocked down and feared. You dodge the rapid fire in open area? The pet will knock you down and make you open to Long Bow auto/rapid-fire/Ranger Team mates.

Like without counting how braindead ranger already is with evade spam? The fact that Ranger inherently baits dodges easy makes it already ridiculous. The fact that it has AI makes it so easy to land attacks on ranger.

TL;DR Ranger is a badly designed class and needs to get reworked. Let’s start by looking at Lone Druid from Dota tbh.

Dogged march as a minor is just too op tbh.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

hello, fellow warrior players …

did it occur to you that …

that anet themselves have absolutely no idea how to design warrior specialization ?

…
…

that is why, we have heard nothing about warrior specialization till now.

There was a Heart of Thorns map preview where it showed a Warrior with an F2. But at the same time, Robert Gee is looking somewhat promising so far, giving the elite specs themselves really high trade-offs. I would like to see how this would work.

GS is okay in sPvP it’s just that it won’t be as good as Axe/Mace even though Axe/Mace is ridiculously risky. GS by itself needs CC so you might say just go Hammer + GS. It’s not going to be stronger than Hammer + Axe/Mace though if people actually cared about synergy i.e bursting with slick shoes, guard ring considering those two aren’t getting nerfed any time soon.

It has some favorable match ups though you don’t really wanna use it for duels. You wanna play like a melee carry tbh, it’s just that it feels like GS has to go full glass cannon to be rewarding.

GS’s problem, since launch, is really the fact that it doesn’t provide utility for the team. If your team already has a lot of utility such as CC then GS is good.

YuiRS.8129:

That’s Revenant.

They didn’t even say if Revenant was gonna use sword or not so w/e. Rytlock “was” a Warrior anyways so there’s the possibility.

2:00 Heavy Armor class doing “omni-slash/blade-waltz” from Dota/LoL. They may be giving an un-targetable while attacking skill for Warrior.

Decent guide but he doesn’t ever talk about variations. There will be times where Fear Me won’t help and you have to take endure pain.

There will be times where Banner is just flat out risky and taking Rampage is just better to delay better and counter pressure better. Sigil-wise, while geo-doom is standard on bow but sword doesn’t have to be intel/battle or energy/intel, sword set is much more flexible.

Random Weird Guy.3528:

lighter.2708:

People blaming celestial when it’s zerker the problem…

Nobody’s complaining about celestial here. Cleansing ire is also used on soldier and zerker builds…

If there is ANY nerf that needs to happen, then nerf it after the specializations come out. Nerfing Cleansing Ire right now will kitten many people off. If you want it nerfed so bad right now, then nerf Slick Shoes and D/D ele too. Both are just as “cancer” and easy to be honest.

You’re not being reasonable.

What Warrior doesn’t have (Which I think should stay and define Warrior):

-Easy mode instant cast maneuvers, gap closers, CC (other than Fear Me but Fear Me has counterplay than most CC)
-Easy mode evade-frame eaters
-Protection uptime
-Z-axis teleport
-Evade on skills other than GS

What Warrior has:

-The one of the most dangerous class in GW2 with no stun breaks if played CC zerker. CC feels very rewarding to land, almost a guaranteed dodge bait/stun break bait OR kill if mechanically intensive.
-Best effective HP with team support, Warrior with protection and healing from others can be borderline cancer.
-One of the best burst mitigation classes in the game cause high HP and endure pain.
-Great team support/duel with shoutbow.
-One of the best point delay/hold in the game.
-Rampage

TL;DR Warrior is balanced.

oscuro.9720:

New weapon: Staff (melee based)
•The staff would be very brute force based, focused on beating people into a pulp with a succession of moderately high damaging hits. Lots of medium hits=person dead.

New Utility type: Wards
•Wards would not be real magic, but more of battle utility magic. For example, casting a ward so for X amount of time, when critically hit, you gain protection. Other things like when struck deal AoE damage/poison/chill/weakness/CC.

New Mechanic: Rage
•Rage works in a unique way. It builds similar to necromancer death shroud, but gives a boost to weapon damage, speed, and range. So once you build a full bar of rage, you can use your f1 to boost your weapon capabilities. At 25%, you get a damage increase. At 50%, you also get a weapon attack speed increase. At 75%, your attack range is doubled and all cool downs are reduced by half. At 100%, you also take 50% less damage for the duration.
•This would obviouslyast far shorter than deathshroud, and does not offer a second health pool. The object is to basically enter into a frenzy with the rage you’ve built up, and decimate everything around you. It drains very quickly, but at a steady rate. Weapon attacks and hits taken do not affect the drain speed. It can be entered and exited like death shroud, and has a small cool down (7 seconds?). The affect of Rage is based on when you start it, they do not diminish as it drains. So if you start at 100%, you will have all the benefits for the entire bar’s duration

What you lose:
All ranged weapons. Longbow and rifle will no longer be available. I know this seems like a big trade off, but i just don’t see a berserker who is fueled by rage being very into pew pawing people. Generally when u fight out of anger, you want to be up close and personal. This would also break The hambow routine if there are traits like resistance/stability on Rage, and a trait for curing a condition every 2 seconds in Rage. Maybe remove conditions on use too. Idk, the possibilities for traits are endless imo.
Just some thoughts I thought I should get out

I like the idea of the elite spec disallowing ranged weapons as a trade-off actually.

Personally I want to see Warrior have 3 weapon swaps but that would be kinda broken :x

Like what have you accomplished so far like Tarcis for example? I don’t understand how you can say “Warrior has a low skill cap” when you have ZERO competitive play presence in sPvP and probably never had the mechanics OR resolve to try crazy things.

I agree with Tarcis when he says, Warrior is “easy to play yet hard to master.” That’s a more educated thing to say to be honest. You will get away with shoutbow and maybe 1 spam with frenzy axe, sure. But..

Dodge count/punish/bait mechanics is what defines high skill cap warrior. Why? Landing 1/2 second stuns take skill and is rewarding. If you’re bad at landing important things then you are bad at making Warrior builds without long bow work. Stun lock DPS Warrior builds work because it baits cool downs and dodges HARD and punishes people hard for when you bait stun breaks and dodges.

If you can’t understand that then you’re pretty much simply a Gold ELO Warrior at best to be honest and that you have much to learn.

Like seriously if it’s so easy to pick up and play Warrior, so then make Chain CC Frenzy DPS work then?

Inb4 he says it isn’t viable and backs down. There’s a reason why I actually have competitive play presence with it and it’s because there is a legit reason to play a DPS that can delay a point on conquest.

I honestly think you’re one of those people never accomplished anything in the first place yet still thinks they can have a valid opinion. Things like that makes balancing fail, no offense.

Watch this PistolWhip kid back down folks. Waiting for you to take the challenge and inevitably back down and go back to easy DPS Guard/Ranger/Necro, cause I know you wouldn’t have what it takes in the first place to take actual challenge due to ignorance really.

On topic, elite specialization for Warr will probably be something out of the ordinary kinda like “Dragonhunter” for Guardian.

PistolWhip.2697:

Elegie.3620:

I’m not sure that kits are plausible for a warrior. A warrior is a so-called “master of weapons”, with Fast Hands allowing for a good usage of weapons’ rotations. He does not use anything else beside weapons, and its conjured utilities (banners) have no AI. Kits do not fit that philosophy, in that they’re instantly invoked and switchable (gadgets could, on the other hand).

The warrior class is paradoxical. It is indeed more forgiving, given its high starting stats, so can be friendly to beginners. However, this can be counterproductive for the student: where’s the need to dodge, blind, chill, protect or aegis when you can seemingly tank damage? Most beginner warriors die at first without understanding why, and in that perspective the warrior class is one of the worst to start the game with.

At high level, I don’t think that the warrior is inferior to other classes. What it lacks (teleports, stealth, AI support, defensive boons and conditions) is compensated by other advantages (fast weapons rotation, mobility, hard control, innate tankiness). A warrior has not the elegance of a mesmer or a thief, but it has more ferocity.

This isn’t a question of them being unviable in high tier. It is that they have a much lower ceiling of skill and mastery than certain other classes. After hitting this wall myself, as have many other warriors in this community, it is a frustrating feeling to know that you have reached your peak because your class has simplistic design. In a sense, it limits your potential when Engineer and Thief don’t.

That was the point I am making. If anything, I feel warrior’s who have mastered it should be rewarded by giving them more to master and use, and that’s where this Elite spec could help. Kits just seemed thematically sound with a soldier in the jungle and active play.

If it’s such a low skill ceiling, then try doing this vs. competent players:

http://www.twitch.tv/blacktruth009/c/6269321
http://www.twitch.tv/blacktruth009/c/6259903

I will call it right now, you will come crying back to DPS Guardian, DPS Necro or any of your instant cast easy to land DPS class. Calling Warrior a low skill cap class is ignorant and just shows how much you have accomplished on Warrior.

I guess stow weapon to bait dodges isn’t high skill cap and knowing how many hits you can land for every level of skull crack improvising whichever you land is easy and effective by your standards.

Granted that shoutbow takes no skill and is effective, DPS Warrior can be just as strong even though it’s much harder to play. It’s just that ignorant players like this guy don’t know how to bring out DPS Warr’s power tbh cause lack of mechanics and creativity.

I bet you think DPS Guard is high skill cap, in which case rofl Guard is actually a lot lower skill cap than Warrior.

lordhelmos.7623:

Good afternoon all,

I don’t understand why blocked players are still forced into games with you when queuing for SPVP.

I am under the impression that a block list is mean to remove players from your game experience. Block needs to block, even in SPVP. I block people for very specific reasons and don’t want to see them in my games.

Blocking someone should remove them from queuing into a team with you in any SPVP game mode. It’s aggravating to block someone then get stuck with them on a team for the next 5 games.

Block OstrichEggs, get free rank points. Are you really that simple-minded that you don’t understand how people can exploit this in-case ranked rewards become better?

Grow a thicker skin please.

There was a point in time where nerf to balance was the answer, now the answer is pretty much search for better balancing devs tbh. Robert Gee seems promising I guess so hopefully for once GW2 powercreep will do something right.

This guy is literally crying about Necro GS? They don’t have evades, they don’t have mobility, they have higher casting times, they are ALL-IN.

GS Warrior atm is fine tbh, it’s just that the lack of creativity and mechanics on the Warrior forums is ridiculous.

People defending slick shoes and instant cast over-charge shot are BAD at landing reasonable cast times. ANET should not be balancing on making bad play viable.

One of those things need to get nerfed, period. Learn to play, get better at landing reasonable skills so that if slick shoes/overcharge gets nerfed properly then it would still be useful, stop defending cheese just because your mechanics are low. Frame-eater slick shoes is NOT BALANCED specially when vampirism runes exist.

If they’re going to keep the “frame-eater” part of slick shoes, then at least lets start by making the OIL SLICK utility into THE stun break instead of the tool belt skill as an immediate fix. CC should counter engi, but right now? You don’t even need to land 1200 range grenades because of how forgiving 23 second + reset stun break is on Engi with vampirism and 16-20 second gear shield. It takes no skill.

P.S Not only slick shoes deserves a nerf.
Shoutbow, D/D ele, Cele Engi, all specifically needs nerfs specially with what they shown on the specializations.

It’s time to complain about screw up buttons to be honest. Vampirism is a screw-up button in my eyes and the mistform function needs to be nerfed.

The devs actually do NOT know what their doing or what they are talking about and it has been that way since launch.

I don’t understand how “Warrior” is a newbie class when a newbie will do just as well on a medi-guard or a ranger tbh. The logic is just absolute fail to be honest considering “Shoutbow” is the only easy thing right now.

Like the moron bases his opinion on “shoutbow” but that’s not the only build that works tbh once you get more “advanced.” Look at Tarcis giving abjured a fight with the GS + Hammer Rampage build for example.

Hugh and any of the devs would get destroyed and come crying back to their instant cast Medi-guard if they ever dared to play DPS Warrior considering the devs are kinda like low skill cap players pretty much.

I don’t get why Fire/air is at fault when there’s still Energy and on swap. I just don’t understand why people can’t understand that nerfing that specific group will just make the other group stronger.

runeblade.7514:

It doesn’t matter.

Cleansing Ire is staple for all pvp builds.

That doesn’t mean gaining adrenaline by getting hit shouldn’t be baseline though. Considering they’re going to power creep so hard anyways, they may as well do this.

Nerf all of those sigils that you mentioned, then Energy becomes top again. If there are going to be nerfs, then nerf to balance must happen.

At the moment, sigils aren’t the real problem when there are greater evils that exist such as instant cast easy to land DPS mechanics from Guardians as an example. Combine that with fire/air? It’s annoying to deal with.

If they’re going to power creep anyways, they may as well just do it. Warrior Sprint shouldn’t be baseline though, it should probably, as one guy said, affect both range and melee weapons.

Like honestly, it wouldn’t hurt for a Strength Arms Elite spec to have a 5 second weapon swap I guess considering Guard and Mesmer elite spec is looking kittened crazy already.

Rather have Fast Hands as baseline rather than Adrenal Health at this point

Saying rampage doesn’t actually have any counter is just ignorant and inaccurate. You’re saying z-axis and blind spam doesn’t? Sigh.

And before people say Zerker stance to rampage makes it impossible to counter it, why don’t you bait out zerker stance way before he rampages? And if does reach the stage of zerk stance rampage, why don’t you abuse z-axis and jumping puzzle? Just god.

None of the classes are underpowered, every class has a place in sPvP. Do NOT let any other people say otherwise, every class has appeared in PvP in ESL. Only certain specs are either lacking or stick shift.

^
Before bulls charge becomes cleave, I hope ANET gives stomp the rampage treatment where it knocks people down instead of launching them out of attack range.

No to the first one, yes to the 2nd and 3rd point. There is no reason for the previous weapon skills to freeze on swap, it just won’t be fun that way.

Kagamiku.9731:

First, let me quote what Midorimarch said roughly 1 month ago

and btw warriors are ezpz cake to kill 1v1 as medi/dps guardian

^Which is actually true

Secondly,
Why create a second thread two days later about the same exact thing? I take it you’re just in troll mode now. Noted.

Can’t tell if that guy bi-polar or bad. God I can’t even say anything to this guy.

No words.