Wish I had the gold, bought a makeover kit would have held off if I would known it was being released this patch.
Best staff skin in my opinion, better than Bifrost by far
Hi I would like an invite into OMG
IGN: Laneigh Silverblade
Server: Sanctum of Rall
Playtime: whenever I can
Role: Scholar
I do a little of everything, leveling My Mesmer
Any advice? My Mesmer has been sitting at 45 for dew months now, I love using G’S and S/f. For leveling what should I focus trait wise?
Destroy S/D and S/p builds, take away a great cc mitigation skill. You might look into running a Mesmer they have great utility, and dps. They are seeing some really good buffs
Yes I agree on that was just saying that they do have those 8 skills over our 4 skills. Yes I’m aware of our decent regenerating resource over cooldowns.
I beg to differ on being forced to play a certain way, from all the recent changes and proposed changes to S/D from larcenous strike to shadow return changes, yet they allow Perma boon builds, but I agree with the rest of what you say.
However every other class does have access to 8 skills they can potentially use at the beginning of the encounter even if they don’t choose to use said skills. While thieves only have access to 4 skills and any combination of those 4 skills
He could also be a d/d ele think he should be able face roll thieves. Probably has never played thief or if he has got face rolled by a decent ele or war and ragequit.
Yeah the reason I left out scenarios as examples was it can be setup in whoever favor you want, my only issue is with we are tied to 4 skills at any given time outside of ini regen which is negated while using the utility skills and mobility thieves have, but even our utilities are lack luster in every aspect besides mobility, kiting and waiting for ini regen is fine in my book I play S/D so I have gotten used to waiting it out to be able to attack.
Other classes can use their 2 weapon sets to constantly apply pressure more effectively in a burst scenario, then use there invulnerability and mobility utilities until they are off cd,
both methods have favorable conditions and this feedback has been helping me see all these aspects.
So what I have gathered especially with the new patch is thieves are being forced to play more tactically than any other classes especially with how they are reworking traits and skills.
And I’m creating an argument to learn from the far more knowledgeable people here on the thief class, so if I’m wrong I will let it be.
Yes thief skills can regen faster than most c d’s but other classes and swap weapons and have access to 8 skills to use against us while we are tied to four at any given time then have to wait for a minimum of three seconds to be able to use the cheapest ini cost skill
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Yes the only issue I find wwith the initiative system vs cooldowns, is if you blow all your c d’s you can switch weapons and have a whole new set to use, if a thief blows all his initial he can’t instantaneously get a whole other set of attacks and utilities, yes depending on how thieves are trained they can get a significant amount of initial back, however with the new patch that is gone and capped out , weakening the thief class even more especially with more of their utility weapon skill getting nerfed.
Sorry miss read a part of your post, you are right.
When you swap to another weapon set after blowing your cos on first set you have a whole new set of cos to blow whiles thieves do not we waste our initiative supply we swap weapons we still have no iniative.
Plus it doesn’t reset skills on cd when you weapon swap you have to wait to swap again is all
Yes but my question again is, how do they expect us to swallow the comaprison between our initiative resource vs the cooldowns of other classes they can be on full cd and get all skills back at once and use all of them, thieves do not have that convenience. So how can they justify saying
Let’s break down this thief change a bit more so we can dispel any notions that this is going to ruin thieves.
We are increasing base regen by 33%. This is basically equivalent to a patch notes that says: “Warrior: Cooldown on all weapon skills has been reduced by 25%.”
Imagine that our Initiatives bar starts at zero and fills up over time. For instance you are using D/D and every time that init-bar goes to 3-init, Heartseeker becomes available to use, in other words, it’s out of cooldown, but we want to use CnD instead, so we conserve that init and wait — effectively placing HS on a cooldown.
The wait time to get from zero to 6-init defines the cooldown rate for CnD.
However at 6-init we have 2 choices, we can either CnD or use HS twice. When our target drops to 25% health, it is more profitable to use HS twice — other profession have no access to this kind of choice, they are stuck with using the skill then wait for cooldown.
Can you imagine a Warrior doing 100-blades twice in a row? This is the kind of advantage that Initiative gives us Thieves.
Unfortunately, Initiatives places CnD in an indefinite cooldown as long as we are spending initiatives as soon as it becomes available. If I keep using HS as soon as I get 3-init, then CnD will never get off cooldown. Warriors on the other hand, they have the Adrenaline system that allows them to build up resources that allows them to deal a massive amount of damage without sacrifices.
Imagine if the warrior has to build up adrenaline to use their skills, they will be the loudest among the whiners. Because every time they use their axe skill, they will put Eviscerate in an indefinite cooldown. If the Warrior choose to bank the adrenaline just as we choose to bank init to get to CnD, they too will be doing kitteny damage and they will QQ until the end of time.
If ANET looks at the initiatives from this perspective, they will gain the understanding on how initiatives works. Comparing it to a profession with 2 resources is not a fair comparison.
This is true to an extent, but it doesn’t take into account that on weapon swap other classes have full abilities while thieves do not we are still tied to the same initiative we had before swapping.
I used to think the Initiative system made Thieves simpler and somehow…easier to play.
After all, a lot of the time you can just spam your most effective move. Is Death Blossom your signature move? Then spam it ALL the time…
I also never felt like we made significant trade-offs for over-extending on your Initiative. Until I played D/P I never really felt like Initiative limited me in any way.
But then I actually spent significant time playing other classes, classes with cooldowns and recognized just how much dumber and shallower they are. It really is just about using all your skills, switching weapons…using all those skills….switching back again.
At least a Thief switches weapons based on his situation. Most other classes will switch weapons just to get to use skills. I never realized just how stupid this system of short CDs with little/no resource management is.
Yes, a Thief would be easier to balance if he had cooldowns. But the game-play of all classes would be better if they had to actively manage real resources instead of just spaming their skills in CD.
This right here, I have played Guardian, Mesmer, and WWarrior, and thief is by far my favorite, since it is a challenge, but the blatant disregard that other classes have twice as many skills available to them to use, compared to thieves makes me laugh and saddened at the same time. Looks like I might dust off Mesmer if they ever truly plan on fixing thieves, as well as actually balancing Guards and Wars.
Yes but my question again is, how do they expect us to swallow the comaprison between our initiative resource vs the cooldowns of other classes they can be on full cd and get all skills back at once and use all of them, thieves do not have that convenience. So how can they justify saying
Let’s break down this thief change a bit more so we can dispel any notions that this is going to ruin thieves.
We are increasing base regen by 33%. This is basically equivalent to a patch notes that says: “Warrior: Cooldown on all weapon skills has been reduced by 25%.”
I may just be tired how would thief casting another ability which uses initiative cause him to recharge the first skill faster?
You’re not tired, I am. I should’ve said decrease…
Haha it happens to the best of us but, was thinking I missed something
I may just be tired how would thief casting another ability which uses initiative cause him to recharge the first skill faster?
When a thief swaps weapons when ini is zero ot still means ini is zero, while any other class swaps weapons they have full skill availability on seperate set
Not sure if this was covered in another thread, from reading the proposed changes as well as responses from Jon, how are they justifying the comparison between initiative regen vs cooldown times?
Thief skills are all tied to a shared resource that when its empty that means we have no access to any attacks, while every other class have cool downs that can refresh simultaneously or independently.
Because I am more of a fan of S/d than S/p, I have mastered mobility where I am the last one alive unless I get taken out by conditions I dont feel the need for blind spamming, I only due fractals with my guild and they are the same skill wise in avoidance if not better
So here is the build with the two piece soldiers I came with less EP slightly more EHP and less Dmg reduction by 3% than with zerk/ knights mo http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/thief/?7.0|c.5g.h4.8.1g.h2.0.0.0|0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0|1c.a7.1g.a7.1g.a7.1g.a7.1c.a7.1g.a7|2s.0.2t.0.2s.0.2s.d13.3s.d19.2s.0|a6.u69b.0.u29b.0|0.2|0.0.0.0.0|e
With my build sacrifices a little Effective power over the valks /knights but gives 1k Ehp
Here is the spec I run currently http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/thief/?7.0|c.5g.h4.8.1g.h2.0.0.0|0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0|1n.a7.1g.a7.1g.a7.1g.a7.1n.a7.1n.a7|2s.0.2t.0.2s.0.2s.d13.3s.d19.2s.0|a6.u69b.0.u29b.0|0.2|0.0.0.0.0|e
(edited by BlaqueFyre.5678)
For gear I was thinking of running zerkers with knights in favor of more damage from gear. 3 piece knights, and 3 piece zerkers with ruby orbs, zerker weaps and trinks with exquisite emerald jewels.
Would this be in my favor over Pvt?
http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/thief/?7.0|c.5g.h4.8.1g.h2.0.0.0|0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0|1n.a7.1g.a7.1g.a7.1g.a7.1n.a7.1n.a7|2s.0.2t.0.2s.0.2s.d13.3s.d19.2s.0|a6.u69b.0.u29b.0|0.2|0.0.0.0.0|e
(edited by BlaqueFyre.5678)
Ok zerkers and soldiers, I will give that a try. Alot of good input in here.
I normally keep sb as secondary, so if I decide to run with a zerg. Or run into a zerg haha
Been looking around and wanting to get back into WvW using S/d. My question is, would a 10/30/0/30/0 be a decent build, with pure zerkers and Ruby orbs, or do a mix with valk or soldiers?
Would knights gear be a good replacement for valk pieces?
The build that I go with on S/d is defensive, it allows for most mobility I can muster, through weapon skills and utility, while the gear gives me my raw stats for dps.
When Thieves will be “redesigned”, if i won’t be able to go 1 v 4 and manage to kill one guy every now and then without taking the slightest risk of being downed, then yes, i see it as a Nerf. Because that’s what Nerf mean.
Haha. Ha.
…
Wait, you’re serious?
Please, go record that. I’d love to see it, because this paragraph threw ANY credibility you had right out the window. This must be a joke. It must be.
Yeah I have never played any class that has zero risk of being downed on anything over 1v2. No matter what fun game play is where there is risk/reward and accomplishment. Haha
So you just wanting to nerf a class that has only ever been nerfed with no solution to fixing the problem, whenever you nerf one aspect of a class you have to look at how it affects every aspect otherwise you break it, if you dont redesign, or buff another aspect of the class at the same time. So how am I being unreasonable to have a discussion. People think nerfs are how you fix things in mmo’s, it is not you have to take into account how it affects everything with the class and or encounter.
I really hope they don’t nerf us again, as all we ever get is nerfs.
Because Thieves don’t need to be?
No thieves do not need to be nerfed. They need to be redesigned, The problem with thieves is their ability to augment and spam stealth, instead of being an utility For healing an mobility augmentation. If they could look at how they can redesign the thieves in that aspect and focus on mobility being there main mechanic, instead of nerfing them into the ground and breaking the class further. People like you are the reason gw2 and othe mmo’s are so unbalanced
i play a thief and I agree that stealth is poorly designed. it’s op’d to be able to remain stealthed the entire time while attacking. that’s while I don’t spec permastealth. it’s for easymode scrubs.
Stealth is not what is poorly designed, the traits that augment stealth, and how much access they have to it is what is poorly designed there is a difference between the two, other classes besides thieves use stealth, ex. Mesmers. If you screw with the stealth mechanic you will not only affect thieves but all classes that use stealth. The problem in the design in thieves and how the have access to it.
Stealth is a poorly designed mechanic that shouldn’t be in the game in the first place.
Explain how it is poorly designed? Examples , proof, anything to substantiate your claim. You do not have any do you? You can not just say something with out backing it up, that is the same as saying, warriors being able to stun you then use 100 blades is too overpowered they should take it out.
Why is that just this skill/profession is so much discussed. It cannot be because people like playing against it, there has been a major complaint against stealth afaik from the beginning. It does not fit the game it clearly outshines anything else in the game because you can see it from the topics. Everyone but thiefs hates their stealth.
is stealth spammable?,e how I see it is you are qqing because one you are lazy, or two want everything to be easy for you.
Is stealth spammable, ah yes when it matters it is. And I do not care if you call me lazy, fact is that this profession has the possibility to strike when noone is expecting it. And that is not the kind of fight I enjoy. Am I lazy that I enjoy fighting all other classes but the thief? Or perhaps it’s possible that there is something really wrong with stealth in this game.
You tell me what you think is wrong with stealth and I’ll show you it has nothing to do with Stealth and everything to do with Thieves.
Stealth is a predominantly balanced mechanic.
If stealth is not a problem than there should be no problem removing it from the game and giving something in return. The fact is that thiefs need something in return or else the whole profession is gone. And that alone makes stealth pretty much the most powerful ability of the thief.
Give then the fast attack chains the assassin had in gw1, or something fitting.
But we all know that’s not going to happen. :/
Aspirine, stealth is work as intended, stealth is not broken, what is broken is how thieves can over utilize it by spamming it, instead of using it as the utility for tactical mobility and health regen that it was designed for through thief traits and mechanics. Thieves are not the only class that use stealth. Hell I use stealth alot more on my sword torch mesmer in WvW than on my thief. I play S/d dont really need to stealth all that much unless I fail at or cant avoid a 100 blades from a war. So before you yell for something being OP look into how it fits into the game, and how it should have been utilized properly.
So getting back into my thief for wvw. I am running a S/d roaming build, very minimal to no stealth besides heals. How would I go about competing with the Warriors best Wvw 1v1 build?
Looking here because you guys know the Warrior mechanics far better than I do.
My build is 0/30/10/30
Fuller zerker gear and trinks
(edited by BlaqueFyre.5678)
So getting back into my thief for wvw. I am running a S/d roaming build, very minimal to no stealth besides heals. How would I go about competing with the Guardians best Wvw 1v1 build?
Looking here because you guys know the guardian mechanics far better than I do.
My build is 0/30/10/30/0
Full zerker armor and trinks
(edited by BlaqueFyre.5678)
Besides the the not being able to cast in combat we mostly agree. thief =mobility is good, thief being able to spam and kitten the stealth mechanic bad.
Only reason I say is allowed to be cast in combat are for the healing utilities of stealth for thieves, and condition removal. Those are a good design for the thief mechanics, being able to steal-backstab-cnd-backstab and every other exploitable perma stealth is how thieves not stealth are broken. Using stealth in combat for the supportive and healing/cond removal and slight tactical mobility is how it should be, not for a huge burst of dps
Question would the x/30/x/30/x be best for mobility and decent sustained dps? Been looking at going bacl to S/D and Sb off. While running zerker/valk armor and full zerker trinks?
Stealth is not broken. The way thieves can spam it is the problem, now if the look at thieves as a whole and redistribute how stealth traits are awarded and or used it would fix the problem, thieves should have stealth a utility to augment their inherent evasiveness and mobility, not be able to spam it for every situation to kill anything. Stealth as a heal great idea, for condition removal great idea. Spammable fight reset on top of those to utilities, and to increase burst dps greatly bad idea. It should augment mobility through utility, not for the core for a dps build.
See I feel the thief mechanics of stealth are skewed, they should be utility not the mechanic soul of a build. I believe the mobility of a thief is their mechanic hence why steal is the built in f1 mechanic. Wasnt calling you lazy just how I feel when people call dor ne4f with no real solution. Hell I play a thief and I hate the perma stealth thieves but I either run a mobile d/d or s/d build and I kite them.
(edited by BlaqueFyre.5678)
Why is that just this skill/profession is so much discussed. It cannot be because people like playing against it, there has been a major complaint against stealth afaik from the beginning. It does not fit the game it clearly outshines anything else in the game because you can see it from the topics. Everyone but thiefs hates their stealth.
is stealth spammable?, they gave the revealed debuff to mitigate that, otherwise people complain because they have to fight a class based on mobility and stealth, akathey lose sight for a few seconds then get hit from other direction, every thread about thieves being OP is either they are to evasive or stealthy, which how they are to be played is the mechanics of stealth skewed? Yes but to remove or blatantly nerf isnt an answer. People have problems with thieves because they are too lazy to properly deal with fighting them, they wish thieves were like wars andbe visible and take the beating standing still, catch a thief off guard or out of evades or stealth they die very fast they are the squishiest class in game. So how do you propose they offset this if they take away or nerf stealth? Otherwise you have no reason to post unless you can offer any suggestion, because how I see it is you are qqing because one you are lazy, or two want everything to be easy for you.
Oh look, businesses as usual in the Thief sub-forum: QQ, Troll, QQ, Troll, QQ, Troll, and on and on.
Nothing is wrong with Stealth!
If a player perma stealth builds and gets results even if it’s 5, 1, 2, 2, 2, 2, stealth, recover, repeat, it doesn’t make the player a scrub, it means the class is scrubby. Don’t hate the player, hate the game. The thief mechanics are designed to be spammed, it’s by it’s own nature a scrub system.
Stealth is fine, and actually I think it’s a little under powered with this bull$&!# Revealed debuff automatically triggering when you drop out of stealth. Countering your Stealth with your Stealth is a &$#!ing stupid mechanic that says “oh were to lazy to make stealth counters part of active skill based play so we’re going to cater to bad players”. Revealed debuffs should only occur when a thief in stealth is hit with a stun effect (fear, knockdown, blowout, etc.) which every class has. Don’t have one on your build? You’re just a loot bag with legs anyways.
The problem is the Thief has a small handful of viable builds, all of which are extremely similar, and all rely on stealth in at least small amounts (which is still more than any class other than Mesmer). That needs to change.
The only reason I learned to counter thieves is they all did the same handful of things at the exact times. I even mastered the distance and timing of steal to evade and CC them in the face. So they can stealth and get away? Good! They need to stealth and recover since plan B is get murdered by the Engineer they shouldn’t have #&@!ed with. That is a problem. The class shouldn’t be addicted to stealth like a junkie that’ll die without it’s drugs. It needs improvements in such a way that if your a skilled player the class is noticeably more effective than a scrub player. As it stands I have maybe 17 hours of experience with a thief and I can Black Powder + Heartseeker + Backstab my way to victory against folks who have played the class for thousands of hours. This is a problem.
In summary, stop pointing at stealth like it’s the bad guy, it’s a powerful ability that uses balanced mechanics except for the Revealed nonsense. Thief mechanics are the bad guy we need to be talking about fixing them.
EX:
Heartseeker spam fix? Turn it into a three skill chain, the first is a leap, the second is an evade, the third is a chill.Black Powder abuse? Turn it into a dark field and let P/P leach health like a boss with it, put the smoke field on Blinding Powder.
Low to no stealth builds? You can use your Stealth attack for 2 seconds after using a teleport.
Unused dual wield #3 skills since no one goes without an offhand weapon? Make a thief with no off hand store up to 2 stolen skills in the #4 and #5 slots.
That’s the kinda stuff we need to be talking about.
This was working so couldnt go this in depth but right here is a great solution.
Sminkiottone, here is an example of a mature suggestion for balancing out a thief.
While reducing the spam ability of thieves using stealth, Anet should look towards increasing their evasiveness and mobility, or provide more or better Crowd control abilities and utilities, for the lack of defensive options the thief has access to once stealth is moved to a more utility spot instead of being the crutch rhat makes up the majority of thief builds.
Ok so as a ranger if you didnt have your pet to help hide behind while kiting a thief or war you would get ganked pretty easily, yes stealth isnt the core mechanic of thieves, but almost all trait lines have multiple traits that require stealth and a trait line soley dedicated to its use. And what about warriors that abuse stun and hundred blades combo? Do you know how annoying that is when you have the lowest vitality/ armor coefficients. Its pretty much instagib unless you play war, ranger, necro, mesmer or guard. So you coming in and saying stealth is to op and annoying, look af the mechanics that make a thief viable , and look at other classes all have annoying gimmicks. Should stealth be looked at? yes but out nerfed or removed ? No. If you would actually research profs. And how best to deal with them, stealth or whatever gimmick they have is easy to defend against. Take d/p thieves if you kite them and dont play their blind game you win hands down.
So instead of crying out for a nerf, look for solutions, that fix problems not just punishing players for using game mechanics. Because everytime the thief has been nerfed, we have adapted and been called out on being gimmicky in every spec yet we have only seen nerfs in the game never any real buffs.
(edited by BlaqueFyre.5678)
If you substantiate your claim, besides sayingohmergerd thief stealth too Op, it must be removed, thieves already get revealed debuff, have a huge lack of vit/ tough, besides evasion the thief does not have any survivability besides Stealth, so how are thieves to get buffed/ compensated for the lack of one of the 2 main defensive utilities thieves have? Give thieves more damage? You would complain even more about how over powered they are because thieves would drop you in 2 secs. Give thieves more/ better mobility and evasiveness? You complain on how you can not hit them. So unless you can be constructive and suggest a way to equalize what you want removed, you have no room to speak .
Yes, I see exactly what you are saying, the only reason it is anywhere close to a core mechanic for thieves, is how they made most builds need it, especially after they nerfed Steal which is the thief Core mechanic, the problem I see as why thieves are as broken as they are, is from the get go people hate the mobility thieves are awarded for not being able to take any decent amount of damage, and they have high burst. People are just lazy that they have a class able to kite and mitigate damage through other means besides armor, boons, and vitality. So they dont feel like chasing and or pressuring the thief. So nerfs happen with no actual fixes, then bandaids are applied, again no fixes. Thieves adapt they lost steal so they rely on stealth, people hate that mechanic because thieves can utilise it to the extreme, nerfs happen, S/d is viable again not stealth heavy. People hate how evasive it is and nerfs happen. And a bandaid will appear further breaking the class.
So if they go to fix the class they have to look at what a thief IS how they fight. Instead of microscoping one aspect what makes up the class. Thieves arent wars/ or necros or guards they have to be mobile and have some form of stealth maybe not as extreme but thats how the class works. Stealth shouldnt be the bread and butter of a class it should be a utility
Yes it is integral to that thief build, and why do people always call for nerfs on thieves? when we get nerfed find a viable build to fascilitate gameplay, they get kitten ed more that we beat the nerf. First nerf was our utilisation of stealth and damage people cry op when our builds revolve around that mechanic. Now they call for a nerf on S/d because we evade too much, which is another mechanic of the game we need for survival. and we can rip boons away to make boon heavy classes/builds even close to fightable. So my conclusion is they want thieves to stay as squishy as they are, with no stealth, no evades and fight like war/ guards.