Guild Wars 2

Not a buff they moved it from the Acro trait line

Basilisk venom is Bugged from some accounts haven’t tested it, apparently doesn’t stun and does AA damage on strike but is unblockable.

And another user Galandil posted these results for each weapon again not sure how conclusive can’t test right now at work,

Galandil.9641:

Ok, I’ll add something to the math calculated DPS of all the main weapons.

I did the test using the jaxnX DPS meter on the immortal golem in the lobby.

I removed ALL damage buffing rune/sigils/traits, with Marauder amulet, and avoided (by asking people not to) any Might/Fury boons during the test. The stats are these:

Power: 2050
Crit. chance: 62.57% (Signet of Agility equipped)
Crit. dmg: 187.3%

I checked the DPS twice for each weapon, stopping when I reached 1M dmg overall. The results are:

Staff – 3100 DPS (consider the constant 13-16 Vuln stacks)
Sword – 2800 DPS
Dagger – 3400 (3-4 constant Poison stacks)

I’m baffled by my results compared to the math done before in the thread, since from that apparently Staff should have a lot higher DPS than Dagger AA. Must be cause of the aftercasts in game opposed to theoretical ones.

However, as far as AA goes, Dagger wins by a huge margin.

Galandil.9641:

reikken.4961:

Galandil.9641:

I checked the DPS twice for each weapon, stopping when I reached 1M dmg overall. The results are:

Staff – 3100 DPS (consider the constant 13-16 Vuln stacks)
Sword – 2800 DPS
Dagger – 3400 (3-4 constant Poison stacks)

I have no idea how you’re getting so much lower numbers for sword than dagger, when I’m getting almost the exact same damage. 3200 for sword and 3350 for dagger (I turned off poison damage in the log. but it’s only ~100 dps anyway)

This is odd. Did you check if you had NO dmg buffing equip/traits?

I used Acro/SA/DD with no major traits equipped (only the minors, they don’t give any dmg buff), and I used Sigil of Bloodlust + Benevolence + Rune of Altruism (so no dmg buffs from these too).

The difference thou can be caused by the variance of crit. chance and wpn dmg (sword has a wider range, 950-1050, while dagger a smaller range, 970-1030).

However, I did again the sword DPS test, this time I got 2950 (explained by variance), while with Swindler’s Equilibrium I achieved a 3200 DPS (way higher than a +5% increment in DPS).

If you can all do some more tests, it’ll be very useful, but still apparently sword has a lower DPS than dagger nonetheless.

Would you say Acro Tr DD beats DA Acro Tr?

I will concede to that, but they did provide some group support most Mesmers would slot Portal and some would slot TW which are great for group utility, now outside of 1v1 builds which were very prevalent that’s huge compared to what Thieves brought to group play. That is what I was getting at on group support, I know they were nowhere near what they provided when Chrono released

Didn’t they say they increased it 10% in a patch but it was never increased?

Thief is hardly a counter since still a wet paperbag for sustain/defense and no reliable Condi Cleanse.

zinkz.7045:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

…Mesmers complain when they try to beat Thieves at the only role they are capable of while Mesmer can fill multiple roles and provide group utility…

That’s a nice little fantasy you got going on there, here is the reality – for the vast majority of this game, thief was perma meta, taken on every single team and best solo carry in the game, whilst mesmer on the other hand was much of the time one of the least represented classes in teams (read non-meta), required a thief to babysit them, had mesmer mains rerolling thief as even as a mediocre thief they were more use, and only ever had one role for the majority of the game’s life.

I never was questioning that Mesmer was crap, but Thieves have had only one role, and provide no group utility, while Mesmers have had the option to group utility, the biggest issue they faced was trying to replicate the Thief role, which they should fail at since they can provide so much, Thieves have been relegated to decap because even if they +1 they hardly had an impact unless their team was winning to begin with, now with the Chrono Trait line Mesmer still have multiple roles they can fill but are strongest at group support, yes their group support took a hit but still lowering every teammates CD is still pretty big.

Yeah it’s Bullkitten that they refuse to make Preparedness Baseline or reduce the cost of our skills to be balanced for the cost.

In before other professions Thief QQ.

lighter.2708:

Cynz.9437:

Most moaning comes from mesmers anyway, i don’t understand why even. Yeah, thief had slight advantage over mes for a while but it was never as bad as guards hardcountering thieves for years.

Funny enough, if mes complains about thief, it is justified. If thief complains about guards or scrappers, it is st*u l2p.

what..no…thief used to farm mesmer for breakfast..

Hmm but Guards still Hardcounter Thief and always have, plus most Mesmers complain when they try to beat Thieves at the only role they are capable of while Mesmer can fill multiple roles and provide group utility. Mesmers just need to learn the role they have in pvp. Trust me I main both Thief and Mesmer each play a different roles in fights each have advantages against each other.

Hell mix any of our Shadowsteps and try to dodge while using Unhindered Combatant you immob yourself it a blast in pvp and WvW

Popcorn is ready with reserves for all QQ post once patch is live T-Minus………..

Hey, to stop the P2W complaints Anet could have stopped not HoT players from qeuing with HoT players or raised HoT players level cap, but then matchmaking would have been horrible, non HoT owners would have the wort Qeue times and wouldn’t even be able to experience pvp in a consistent manner. But they didn’t do either so quit complaining, if you bought Gw2 3 years ago and played say one day a week for lets say 2 hours a day you would have paid . Roughly 0.48 a week to play the game, which is a bargain, because if you played more than that you got even more value, and you can pay 50$ again get the expansion and everything that comes with it and get more value out of the game, thankfully you don’t have a to pay a sub fee that raises the cost of the game exponentially.

Krysard.1364:

MyPuppy.8970:

Krysard.1364:

MyPuppy.8970:

Don’t those things melt faster with conditions?

Edit: I’d like pets/clones/minions count as kills on on-kill sigils.

Then ppl should rally by killing them :p

I think it happened with clones for a moment, a while ago. I like that idea though. Well maybe not for clones since they’re so squishy, but what about Necro/Ranger pets?

The idea makes sense, but there are a few problems:

1.Pets dont have downstate, which make it easier to kill them than a fellow player
2.Pets dont have the same deffensive mechanics/hp pool as a normal player, which make it easier to kill them too
3.Ranger hasnt the same control over himself than over the pet. This means that he cannot decied when the pet uses some skills, nor the positioning, which makes them easier to focus fire and so kill them.

Your number 2 is partially wrong some like the Bristleback have higher base Health than thieves, eles and guards.

Coulter.2315:

TheLastNobody.8319:

oi, reading all these thief posts is starting to make me regret ever pitying the profession.

Wait til they are OP again.. Then you’ll really love them.. Classic Thief quotes; “Sword#2 is fine,” “feline grace is fine,” “preloading SD#3 to use with steal is fine,” “Steal is fine, so what if you can’t read it on 3 sheets of A4” …

They will hang on to ANYTHING, feel no pity.

And look at the amount of Boons everywhere S/D 3 would be perfect how it was before nerf, let’s use this as an example of the problem Anet has, oh S/D3 is an issue lets nerf it, but since this was an issue for other classes lets buff their boon application rate, if they would have chose one or the other it would have been fine but as is always the case they nerf something and provide a buff for the counter of the same thing as if they never nerfed the skill. If the revert S/D 3 today it would be perfectly fine since people can toss boons around a with out any issues but people would still cry it being OP

I forgot this existed my god Necro

Is it similar to the Thief Teleport to dash bug? Where it immobs you if you dash after ending any Shadowstep skill

With the amount of soft CC in the game currently through cripple, chill and immobilize this isn’t over powered, and the dash mechanic helps thieves counter act the 1200-1500 range classes, when every class has these ranges and gap closers of their own, this allows the Thief some iota of defense against these mechanics, now give Thieves 1200 range on SB then think it would be a little more appropriate to take modify the Dash.

Or stop grouping with Bads find a raid group to consistently raid with…. It’s not Anets fault people request their own requirements to join them, you don’t have to group with those people you have a choice.

Thief Dare Devil GM trait Unhindered Combatant has a Nasty little bug that roots the Thief if they us in conjunction with and Shadowstep ability, mostly seen when used with Shadowstep and Infiltrator Arrow.

Krysard.1364:

Zodryn.4216:

Krysard.1364:

Zodryn.4216:

Krysard.1364:

Zodryn.4216:

I would like to point out that you are asking for a survivability nerf to the easiest class to kill in the game.

U for real?

It sure as heck isn’t Mesmer or Ele. Who are the other candidates?

Well, its the easiest class to kill if he afks on point, but has by far the best disengage ingame, so its not easy to kill at all.

We do have great disengage, but note that I said easiest to kill not easy to kill. Also, being somewhat hard to kill because you can run away well isn’t usually a good measure of survivability.

It depends of your role, if you are a roamer the ability to easily engage/disengage is pretty dope. Actually a good thief will hardly die no matter what, so he can always be here and there doing stuff. I mean, I think you get my point, warrs have bad survivability, but thieves?

Warr can sit on point and sustain if needed, Thieves cannot yes they can survive by running away but when they are disengaging they aren’t contributing to anything. Unless they are heading to an empty point survivability/= sustain. Yes being able to disengage can help but if they can’t do anything else besides disengage then it’s a moot point.

Grandmaster Yo.4327:

I think a few of you have some misconceptions about the general idea of thief play.

First off thieves aren’t mean to defend points solo (I mean sure some probably can against certain classes but it’s not optimal), if they are then the enemy’s team play is off and yeah, do whatever you want to get the decap by spamming stuff on point, that’s not what is wrong with the Dash.

More importantly, like I said before you all probably haven’t seen much for thieves due to the current meta so believing that they really needed huge buffs in the first place is kind of vain because really, the meta was what was affecting thief’s viability, not their builds in particular. This isn’t random bashing, I’ve tested and watched the trait used in matches with low counts of bunkers and the speed and ease with which a thief can escape and travel throughout the map is matched only by an invuln Mesmer stepping through a portal.

Good thieves in the past have always been able to deal with CC as it is. As it stands if you are one to complain about CC because you walked into a gravity well, a DH’s Maw or attacked an enemy with static aura, that’s really your own fault, not the class. True, an option for some kind of stability with the new acrobatics changes could allow for more sustained engagement but then why should we also be able to ditch out of a fight with even less effort than we needed to before?

And to me, it makes no sense that a dodge is capable of removing immob, the exact thing the condition is supposed to prevent compared to the other two soft CCs.

First of all, it’s not underpowered.
Second of all, the Stab on dodge is the one reason Necros have an easy time vs revs cause we can just keep corrupting stab and chain fearing for all eternity.
Lastly. The taunt triggers on the Revenant getting CC’d. That trait is however really strong.
Unhindered Combatant is indeed a really strong trait, the one weakness it has atm is the teleport bug. I would be in favor of adding 3-5 seconds ICD on the soft cc removal and or only removing 1 of the 3 condis every dodge.

I agree the teleport bug (which I’ve only experienced at varying times) can be troublesome with this trait but I like the idea of a possible ICD on the condition removal or some way that prevents the ability to remove multiple immob sources through sequential dodging.

Seeing how it takes a GM trait, to even have it when we could slot for 10% damage increase on dodge that also AoE damages, which is a very competitive trait for the same slot, Thieves have little to no sustain let alone good Condi removal especially since most of it relies on successfully evading an attack, which also requires a trait.

You stated it in your own post thieves aren’t designed to fight on point which makes them near useless besides decapping empty points or +1 a fight your team already has the advantage on, if a Thief is running guess what he isn’t doing capping a point or staying to fight.

Besides being the best class at running away, mix that with them having the shortest ranged weapon options, they can’t be mobile and keep pressure like most other classes, and then there are Hard CC’s that stop unhindered combatant in its tracks.

Why don’t you wait the patch before claiming something is OP, since everything looks Op in a vacuum.

Midi.8359:

I can see where the worry comes from. Thief would be a middle of the pack to top tier class if it wasn’t for how broken other classes are. A lot of those broken classes are getting nerfs along with amulet changes. Buffing thief on top of those changes is likely just going to make it a top tier class.

The nerfs people are calling for have not been an issue, are unrelated to the Buffs to AA damage, Thieves can’t even approach point with more than one player on in fear of AoE spam, still have the shortest range weapons so even with the mobility the 1200-1500 range classes can keep pressure when disengaging.

So much QQ about Thieves before the patch even hits, between the damage increase people are now QQing about Unhindered Combatant, kind of sad really, we can’t have anything with out someone complaining.

It’s buggy with any of the thief teleports, it immobs them if used in conjunction, and compared all the cheat death skill/Passives every other class has its meh.

Yes but it can still function as a glider

It has rockets it can glide

I have never seen a thief rage quit, I have seen every other class harass thief players before matches even start and during the match

Have a twitch streamer complain next day t will be fixed…

The thing with mawdrewy was the special ascended may converter

Hell even 25 sec for Arcane Thievery would be very reasonable, it’s always been a pity that all of Mesmer utilities have been such high CD similar to Thieves.

Get a well know Streamer to complain and boom it will be added they will bend over backwards for it to happen

Yes I would love to see this

There is no “official” definition of a raid, there are just the precedents of what games have called Their Raids, I remember a day when WoW had 40 man raids, not 10, or 20, but 40. I will leave this here

“A raid is a type of mission in a video game in which a number of people attempt to defeat a boss monster or consecutive series of bosses. The term raid itself stems from the military definition of a sudden attack and/or seizure of some objective.”

Or
“A more substantial engagement involving a large organized group of players typically set in a dungeon and involving difficult bosses”

Jace al Thor.6745:

Well with the upcoming buffs to both dagger and sword I think it’ll be hard to say thief will have only one build. Thief, like Mesmer, only has one working PvP build for high tier play. Which at the moment isn’t used as bunkers galore.
As for utilities.. Your standard shatter build for PvP really only brings portal for the group. Otherwise it’s fairly selfish. Chrono bunker gives boons out the ying yang but is lack luster in the damage department, what made it really shine was its Rez/stomp ability.
I’m not saying one class should be better than another. Far from it. Ideally each class would have its counters and it comes down to individuals skill level and not hard counters/passive procs as we have now. But that won’t ever happen as those in charge of balance don’t understand how that is supposed to work.

Thieves have multiple builds but only one role as I stated, while Mesmer can provide multiple roles with more build diversity. Yes builds should have various counters, which is prevalent. But when players complain that one class that one has one role and excels at that role and counters another class that tries to emulate it, people seem to forget that Mesmers can bring other things to the table besides decap/+1 even after patch Mesmer can bunker if they wanted, and provide group support, also people undervalue the ability to mass port people to a point if needed, group support in this game mode is very valuable, which is something with the current design Thief will never bring to the table.

Jace al Thor.6745:

Kayberz.5346:

You use the argument that mesmers burst is useless because of the current bunker meta, yet, by the times these changes come it wont be that same bunker meta

This is the problem with most of the proposed balance changes people suggest, they list all kinds of buffs to counter what is OP right NOW while neglecting all the nerfs that are already going to happen at the same time, resulting in them suggesting WAY overcompensated buffs

Hmmm yes and no. They still are maintaining some bunker amulets and adding others so it’s still a good chance that it’ll be the same problem. If it’s not, then another problem arises. Thieves hard counter shatter Mesmer, have for years so we’ll be back to where were before with only 2-3 people playing Mesmer on top tier play instead of having multiple. So there’s the problem we have. Mesmers run bunker and be able to compete against everything or run shatter once the patch hits and gets pushed out of the meta. That’s my opinion mind you and like kittenholes everyone has one.

As for balance, a test server would go a long ways for them. Or splitting balance between PvP/PvE. On the other hand, as it stands that won’t happen so ideally they would the weak stuff first to bring everything up to par and if something was still OP at that point bring it down to par with everything else. No knee jerk, haphazard balancing.

Only issue with the Thief will hard counter Shatter Mesmer, Mesmers have more build diversity than thieves, you compare 1 role that Mesmer have vs the only role Thieves have. Mesmer brings a lot more to the table in the form of group utility, and don’t forget Guardian has always hard countered Thief.i play both and yes the heavy handed nerfs to Mesmer are ridiculous Anet went too far, it just needed to be toned down, hell the removal of Quick stomps/ Rez would have hurt ChronoBunk quite a bit all by itself, yes core Mesmer needs a rework not a buff but an actual rework, the same that Thief needs a rework since most traits thieves have are useless.

Ross Biddle.2367:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

A huge problem that is facing Mesmer is that Anet hasn’t specified exactly what they want Mesmer to revolve around,

Don’t be silly. Years ago when going over this very topic Anet uttered the words “Purple” and “Cheese”. The theme has stuck pretty well ever since.

Whenever Mesmer has threatened to step up and out from under this mantle, Anet have been consistent in ushering it right back under

The best comment I have seen so far haha

Ricky the organized portion is a small part of the game as a whole there is only a few parts that require, High level fractals and raids while all the rest can be had almost anytime in open world with zergs, and however you like, yes some stuff is tied to timers but that is how a lot of the world bosses were to begin with.

Yes Anet needs to cater to both groups, to do so effectively they should have a team dedicated to raids and another to open world instead of having the same people do both. Just like Anet needs to better cater to both Pve /pvp.

A PTS would help this game out so much, and allow them to make informed decisions while giving the players what they want in having a say in what is put out and to help QC any changes Anet makes, since their biggest issue is not having the man power to properly test or QC their own work.

Mesmers and Thieves can co-exist, the biggest problem I see are Mesmers comparing one aspect of what they can do to the whole of what makes up Thieves, all that Thieves have is the ability to be +1/decap. Yes Mesmer has shown a lot of potential at this but they have a lot more group utility which can be just as important in the current game mode, yes after patch that will take a huge hit.

A huge problem that is facing Mesmer is that Anet hasn’t specified exactly what they want Mesmer to revolve around, thief they have said they want to be extremely dangerous and highly mobile. If Anet could specify what they want Mesmer to be good at then maybe they could make it have a place that won’t make it nerfed every other patch, it’s sad because I like playing both classes equally.

More of the QQ threads, thieves will still be decap/+1 since you know still no solid defense to stand on a point and fight in the Aoe spam everyone else has, yeah they can burst and escape, but Guardians Hard counter them, and most of the thief QQ threads are from Mesmers, (btw I play both equally) Mesmers compare themselves to the thief role yet they bring a lot more team utility than thieves could ever imagine, and QQ for nerfs.

Both should be viable, yes Anets preview is a huge Heavy handed nerf as it stands with the preview for Mesmer, they should have been a little more conservative in their “shave” as they call it, they even say they want Thieves to be hard hitters that are highly mobile. Wait till they release the full notes before the doom and gloom.

A lot of classes will be able to eat thieves alive after patch, thieves will be able to kill other classes if they get the jump on them, mostly as a +1 because of all the sustain.

End rant

So I’m going to hit a few points with this novel!

It’s sad really, that most so called “Casuals”, only care about getting what they want while stripping any value from what the “hardcore” (HC)players want claiming that HC players want to lord over casuals, when most just pride themselves on completing challenging content, and being rewarded appropriately, harder content should always provide better rewards than easier content.

HC players never want to devalue Casual content or take away their content or rewards. If you want Legendaries then request a unique skin for content aimed at your player base that would probably not make any HC players angry(most couldn’t care less about it), just because you don’t like a form of content doesn’t mean that it is aimed only at HC players or is inaccessible to you. Casual friendly Legendaries should take longer to acquire than the HC equivalents since HC spend more time and effort to acquire them in a faster period.

Hell I get to play 1hr maybe 2 every other night (some of the people on this thread will call me HC), yet I am able to raid and do most of the events that I like in that time frame I prioritize what I want to do in that short period, I was able to find a guild that raids at times when I am on, so I join them. So far they have not completed the raid yet we don’t get mad or kick anyone, we help each other figure out what’s wrong and fix it the last attempt we did we got VG to 1% HP with 50secs left on the timer and we were not in a meta/optimized group ( if I want to I play on my Thief and no one bats an eye).

Harper.4173:

Astralporing.1957:

Coulter.2315:

Astralporing.1957:

Yes, any content does need rewards in order for players to draw full enjoyment from it (because we do like being rewarded), but those rewards do not need to be content exclusive.

Raids have Legendary Armour, Fractals have a unique Legendary Backpiece, PvP has a unique Legendary Backpiece. There are unique Legendary Rewards for all the high end content – harder content gives better rewards.

Both the fractal and spvp backpieces can be obtained by playing the mode on “easy” setting. It just takes longer.
So, would you be okay with raids having as rewards not legendary armor, but just a legendary backpiece, and one that could be grinded for by consistently failing (or running the first encounter in some toned down mode made for casuals)? Because that would be equality.

There are clear challenge motes that require skill to complete for the FOTM backpiece – and we only have the precursor so far – if anything – to craft the full thing higher-level challenge motes will be required – and they do take skill.

Also Raids do have rewards for failing – magnetite shards. Fail enough and you can still buy some of the rewards – just not all of them – just not the final one.

Yes you can get magnetite shards from failing raids but you cannot buy anything unless you beat the boss.

TheLastNobody.8319:

lloydst.6985:

rchu.8945:

TheLastNobody.8319:

oi, reading all these thief posts is starting to make me regret ever pitying the profession.

What’s there to pity? One of the class that was part of the meta for the longest time, one time that they are meta they cried to make sure Anet puts them right back in it. Now with the damage buff incoming, they cry about stealth for other classes too… Pathetic.

Thief hasn’t been in the meta for the longest time it has been around in the meta and sneaking its way in there with only a few players making the profession actually useful in matchesbut for most average players it has been near impossible to play for the average thief player for over a year. (I have 160+ping so stopped trying to play it in ranked but still play it daily)

^ this, and from what I’ve seen even when it’s in meta it’s mainly just a +1 fighter and going to whatever node has no people on it. Teamfights a few months ago I’d see them blown up and in the June 23rd update they had acrobatics gutted and for the most part repackaged into daredevil. Plus the fact they are SO reliant on stealth to do things creates a class that, I find, about as fun to fight as pulling teeth or playing a game of whack a mole blindfolded.

Still it’s annoying to see so many thief posts flaunting that mesmers will be food again for them, and getting angry about other classes having access to stealth like its something that should be exclusive only to thief.

I have yet to see many if any thieves say they will eat Mesmers, the only posts I see talking about Thirves eating Mesmers are created by Mesmers.

lighter.2708:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Lighter only 2 classes had access to stealth those were Mesmer and Thief now arguably Thief stealth was designed for those classes for thematic reasons, also Thief has a whole Trait line dedicated to stealth which no other class boasts, Mesmers have a trait in one trait line that helps their stealth. And a class that has the most reveals and has some of the best mass stealth In game is just ridiculous.

…engi had stealth since release..

Nowhere near close to Mesmer stealth or Thief stealth so it was a non issue. But when you give a class mobile mass stealth that’s better than two classes that specialize in stealth is a problem, especially when that said class has the most reveal in game.

Lighter only 2 classes had access to stealth those were Mesmer and Thief now arguably Thief stealth was designed for those classes for thematic reasons, also Thief has a whole Trait line dedicated to stealth which no other class boasts, Mesmers have a trait in one trait line that helps their stealth. And a class that has the most reveals and has some of the best mass stealth In game is just ridiculous.

Scrapper shouldn’t have access to stealth Thief should have it with Mesmer having slightly less but that’s just my thoughts on it.

One thing I find astounding though, with the whole Mesmer community calling out us as hard counters and doing things better than they can, is they have a lot more group utility in all game modes but they try to play Mesmer as though it is a thief, yes it has the capability but is not where it is focused in that play style as Thief is. Hell I would love to have some group utility for the thief that is actually viable. But it will never happen.

Daredevil staff is based around evasion not stealth for defensive mitigation, what you are asking for would cause so much QQ that it would see Thief nerfed yet again.

thunderfall.8095:

Just read my signature to see how conflicted I am.

Same but for pvp I’m not conflicted, I main Mesmer for pve Chronotank and Pvp on Thief, if I could I would raid with my thief if people would allow me lol. But yeah it sucks since launch I have seen both of mains receive nothing but Nerfs the majority of the time.