Guild Wars 2

Arson Thief ES confirmed…… will look amazing paired with incinerator

OriOri.8724:

Lol this is funny coming from you, considering you are always so quick to tell people its a L2P issue and that low skill floor builds arent’ effective in higher levels of play, which “obviously” means they are fine as they are.

Your little jab would have merit if he was asking for classes to have lowered skill floors or if he was asking for outright nerfs which he/she/it isn’t.

All depends on the encounter and group needs, For Raids I run full zerker with Scholar Runes, I alternate between D/D core Thief Da/Tr/CS and Staff Daredevil depending on the encounter and if there is Perma Revealed

RabbitUp.8294:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

All I can say is beware Guardians….

How do you like them projectile reflects? :p

I don’t mind them at all since I normally kitten on a P/P melting 95% of alone DHs I run into. It’s like most DHs don’t know what a reflect is. But they are used to letting the class almost play itself lol

NotASmurf.1725:

Do you actually realize how much effort would this require? We’re down to 1 legit balance patch a year and skill/trait splits consist only ofthe occasional minor CD change (before they eventually merge the 2 versions again in the next patch), they can barely care about balancing this game now letalone after a change like this.

Really on CD changes? SoTM 50% damage difference between WvW/PvE and Pvp, Signet of Agility 50% endurance replenishment difference between WvW/PvE and PvP, Infiltrator Strike used to have 33% distance difference between WvW/PvE and PvP, more than just simple CD differences, so it’s reasonable to think they can split the skills to. Shave differently between the game modes.

That actually wouldn’t be all that bad some skills like UA and Surge of the mists could see lower CDs 15 sec on UA and possibly 25 for SoTM, this is geared more toward sPvP more than WvW Crystal hibernation would need to be lower like 20 or 25 since it’s a rooted Block unlike 90% of all the other blocks in game, the others I don’t really know 100% well enough to determine what they could be without the Energy costs

@Sirbeaumerdier

Those aren’t accessibility issues, the Raids are still fully accessible to people even if they have those disorders. An accessibility issue is a system issue, nothing with the system is stopping any player from Accessing or Performing in Raids. What you are listing of are personal reasons some players won’t attempt Raids.

Right now the Guaranteed spots are Mesmer, Warrior, Ele, and Druid

Raolin Soulherder.3195:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Again if the Thief Resets so does the player they are resetting from, and if the Player isn’t a total potatoe they will start moving in a direction instead of standing in the same spot, they have a few options, and all of them will force the Thief to burn more resources to try and disengage to reset or to re-engage that same target, it’s really not that hard, but most players I have ran into root up in the same spot just like a potato waiting for people to re-engage.

Health resets. Cooldowns do not. If Anet’s #1 objective was to specifically design a class that caters to the toxic/trollish demographics, they couldn’t have done a much better job.

Again Thieves have CDs and Weapon CDs in the form of Initiative…….. For the reset capability the thief has to use the finite resource of Initiative. And one last time if the defending player just stands there and doesn’t do anything to get away or pursue the Thief then they deserve to die because either action will force the Thief to use that very finite resource…

If people can’t understand that very basic concept there is no help available and they need to l2p

Not saying that people don’t do any hacks but Right now there is a Guardian zerg build designed soley for nuking Siege. And it’s from the siege hitting them while hey are blocking, which is almost always.

No, people should be punished for dying in fights, they should remove downstate altogether in WvW and sPvP

How to fight Reaper:

1. Run every active and passive Condi Clear your Class has(sorry Revenants)
2. Run Condi Clear on Crit or On Swap(dictated by class)
3. Run – Condi Duration Runes and Food.

4. Profit.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

As per your trashcan example, is there something physically in the game that bars them from spending time and effort, as a trash can lid being down while throwing paper balls? last I checked, there wasn’t.

Snip

Among the things that could impact on this, for example…

Enjoying that kind of content. In life, we all have to go through 168 hours every week. Among these hours, some of us will have 40 hours of badly paid work they hate and feel less than humans doing while others will brag about working 80 hours for which they are well paid, enjoy, and feel accomplished doing. Who do you think need to work more and will have a harder time accepting to work more hours this week? This is obvious. The quality of the experience is what is going to be the deal breaker here, not the amount of hours spent. In fact, the 80 hours working person probably feel energized after his week, were as the 40 hours person is likely exhausted.

Snipped due to length

All of those barriers are not an issue of the Gamemode, or should be a factor in deciding the decision of this niche content gamemode. Before releasing Raids Anet clearly stated who the Target audience was, they have also stated that they exceeded their Target audience goal/expectations, and they have stuck to their Target audience philosophy.

Just because individuals have personal life that happens shouldn’t be a deciding factor, otherwise the game can’t develop properly or on time because everyone’s lives are different with different situations, to try to make the game appeal to everyone’s Lifestyle is a pipe dream at best, at worst it will more than likely ruin the game to even attempt it. Anet has done well with providing a little bit of everything for everyone. Almost all demographic in game have content geared toward them, the majority of that content being geared toward casuals and people with constricted play time, i.e. Open world PvE, Fractals, sPvP is essentially all Solo Queue Hot join, WvW, Dungeons, Personals story, Living Story. Etc….

but for those people to complain that an extremely tiny slice of content should be commandeered just for them and to go against the gamemode scope and vision is by far one of the more ridiculous and selfish things to do, especially for the people that want it just for the exclusive items and same rewards. Some only want the story which is accessible already, but not to their preference so they would want added developer time to this small niche content that will more than likely slow down Raid production just so they can get a one off Story so they can feel “special” aka the hero, that they will probably never revisit since there would nothing else to be gained from the story mode after their proposed story mode.

Again the Game has no actual barriers to participate in Raids, every “barrier” you and everyone has claimed are all on the individual themselves and not the system for Raids, there are multitudes of options for players to start getting into Raids, and most of the ground work has been laid, it is up to the Individual to put in the effort/time to make it happen if they are so interested in playing the Raid content.

Berserkeremir.4631:

Sarika.3756:

Berserkeremir.4631:

Doens’t aggreed with you. Guild wats hasn’t many obtions for manly or kitten looking gear options. Probably one of the desingners is a woman and thats because spvp has a feminen looking legendary pack. We need more armors like heavy version of the triumphant hero armor.

What does a designers gender have to do with anything? And how is the PvP legendary back piece “feminine”? (It looks pretty gender neutral to me.)

yes totally aggred with you on your first idea , a desingners gender shoudn’t have to do anytinh with desing. So they should stop desingning feninen looking gear or gears for only looking decent on human characters. And PvP legendary back piece looks feminen . You can’t argue about that. It is a butterfly wings with shiny colors (mostly pink in it)

The Pvp Legendary back are by no means butterfly wings, you might need your eyes checked…. and the colour scheme/design is influenced by the Egg chamber in Tarir…………. then you have the other Legendary back piece which is Shattered Rocks/crystals held together by Mist the colonies are derived from the primary colors of The Mists which all items besides the gold are the purplish grey colour……

Both having direct ties to in game designs

Revenant have some QoL changes, and minor reworks, on top of Bug fixes(which should have been addressed as soon as possible, yet coming up on two years and the same bugs are present)

One of the reworks is removing the Energy cost on Weapon Skills but balancing the CDs appropriately.

Having each Legend have at least one Reliable Condi cleanse.

Having traits revised, some seem to have been forgotten when the massive change from the last BWE and launch of HoT, changed a lot of the basic functionality of Legends but left some traits the same. I.e. Most of the Corruption Traitlines and Mallyx.

A big one for me, Make OH more reliable!!

Chorazin.4107:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

If a Thief Resets so do you, and if a Thief does run far enough away that you aren’t a threat they will have to Burn Initiative and CDs to re-engage, especially if you decide to it just stand in the one spot waiting for them to return.

The thing with power builds in a fight is it’s all about timing and landing bursts. The fact you can virtually win the fight 3 times but never force the encounter because the DD can disengage @ 10% health or so to heal back to full and try again is the main source of frustration from the OP perspective i would imagine.

But as soon as you make a mistake and you eat some burst the role is reversed, and unless you are a DD yourself you have no counter. This could be the fourth or fifth attempt by the DD in question.

jacksmith.6028:

The game isn’t designed for roaming – it’s designed for large scale battles.

This right here, WvW is the large scale format, PvP is the small group format. Anet do not care how classes perform in a microcosm in reference to WvW. You just need to look at the Acro line for DD’s, how much condi mesmers kitten or how over tuned zerkers are to see they give zero kittens about WvW balance when scaling down to 1-5ppl in a mode designed for large group conflict.

Again if the Thief Resets so does the player they are resetting from, and if the Player isn’t a total potatoe they will start moving in a direction instead of standing in the same spot, they have a few options, and all of them will force the Thief to burn more resources to try and disengage to reset or to re-engage that same target, it’s really not that hard, but most players I have ran into root up in the same spot just like a potato waiting for people to re-engage.

Anet has extremely basic control over the Forums, the company that created and was supposed to maintain/Update no longer exists iirc, so don’t expect any changes especially QoL style stuff.

Example: Search function still doesn’t work after 5 years.

Lionwait.4815:

None dmg conditions applied to a enemy will keep them in combat where as the Thief can get out of range and reset his/her health coming out of combat. End of story. If you disagree I would say get off your lazy arss and go test it noobs.

Oh no a non damagaing condition that lasts maybe 2 seconds not to include any passive cleanses that can cleanse them or The Meta Thief build also applies more poison than it does non damaging conditions…., since only Condi builds will last longer on non Damaging and if that’s the case …… smh people

miguelsil.6324:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Choppy.4183:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Damaging Conditions have always kept the applying player in combat since the Beginning of the Game, and Stealth not revealing on Condi Tick and staying in Combat are two completely different mechanics entirely, this highlights my second to last point in my post you are replying to.

Again if someone stays put for a Thief to easily re-engage is a l2p problem of the defending Player.

No Stealth changes to combat mechanics have changed in regards to Damaging conditions and OOC they have always kept players in combat until no more ticks are on the player and the players are far enough distance away, it has been this way since launch.and Shadow Return has a Short time to use which normally expires before the Thief OOCs let alone reset their health completely……..

Lol, well, I used to use the technique of applying conditions on people, disengaging, resetting, and re-engaging back in Year 2, so I can say for certain that you’re wrong.

Also, if you don’t know how to disengage and easily re-engage on a thief, maybe you’re the one with the l2p issue. It’s seriously not that hard, and some people have made a cottage industry of it.

Seeing how I have played his game since launch, it’s hasn’t changed at all, it just sounds like you don’t know basic game mechanics in the slightest. Sort you haven’t noticed mechanics that have been in game since launch.

And nope and I saying I have issues with Thief Disengaging? Nope, I just don’t try to portray something as not being affected by basic Game mechanics, all I see is you complaining about it so you seem to have some l2p issues to work on.

Thieves aren’t this all powerful boogey man that can’t be killed, players just need to learn basic mechanics that have been in game since launch.

The game hasnt changed since launch? Really? Wvw now is NOTHING like it was at the beggining and nowhere as fun.

Reading comprehension must be hard. I stated that the OOC mechanic hasn’t changed in regards to Damaging Conditions keeping both players in combat until the Condis are removed/expired since launch, all major game mechanics changes (which that would be one if it changed) would be in the patch notes.

Choppy.4183:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Seeing how I have played his game since launch, it’s hasn’t changed at all, it just sounds like you don’t know basic game mechanics in the slightest. Sort you haven’t noticed mechanics that have been in game since launch.

And nope and I saying I have issues with Thief Disengaging? Nope, I just don’t try to portray something as not being affected by basic Game mechanics, all I see is you complaining about it so you seem to have some l2p issues to work on.

Thieves aren’t this all powerful boogey man that can’t be killed, players just need to learn basic mechanics that have been in game since launch.

And I’ve played since the beginning as well. Except I’ve actually used the technique, and you’re just sure it doesn’t work that way.

And I haven’t complained about Thief here, and I even said that it should have advantage on this front. I just put two caveats on something you said, then started to call out the silliness of some of your responses, and you couldn’t handle it.

Sad, really. I’ve read your comments before, and I thought you were better than that.

It sounds like you need to go back and check they never changed how Damaging Conditions keep both players in combat, and your comparison on why Condi ticks doesn’t reveal Stealthed players and Condi ticks not keep Players in combat just shows how much you don’t know about basic game mechanics, Anet puts all Combat Changes into patch notes go back and see if it is in any balance patch that it was changed, you won’t find it, and even the wiki back in 2013 when they added the section on all the affects of Combat Mode mentions any damage done keeps players in combat, then was clarified later in 2014…….

Choppy.4183:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Damaging Conditions have always kept the applying player in combat since the Beginning of the Game, and Stealth not revealing on Condi Tick and staying in Combat are two completely different mechanics entirely, this highlights my second to last point in my post you are replying to.

Again if someone stays put for a Thief to easily re-engage is a l2p problem of the defending Player.

No Stealth changes to combat mechanics have changed in regards to Damaging conditions and OOC they have always kept players in combat until no more ticks are on the player and the players are far enough distance away, it has been this way since launch.and Shadow Return has a Short time to use which normally expires before the Thief OOCs let alone reset their health completely……..

Lol, well, I used to use the technique of applying conditions on people, disengaging, resetting, and re-engaging back in Year 2, so I can say for certain that you’re wrong.

Also, if you don’t know how to disengage and easily re-engage on a thief, maybe you’re the one with the l2p issue. It’s seriously not that hard, and some people have made a cottage industry of it.

Seeing how I have played his game since launch, it’s hasn’t changed at all, it just sounds like you don’t know basic game mechanics in the slightest. Sort you haven’t noticed mechanics that have been in game since launch.

And nope and I saying I have issues with Thief Disengaging? Nope, I just don’t try to portray something as not being affected by basic Game mechanics, all I see is you complaining about it so you seem to have some l2p issues to work on.

Thieves aren’t this all powerful boogey man that can’t be killed, players just need to learn basic mechanics that have been in game since launch.

Choppy.4183:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

If a Condi from the Thief is on the opposing player even if they Try to OOC they will still be in combat, the games mechanics don’t magically stop working because someone is playing a Thief, that condition will keep the Thief in combat no matter how far away they are as long as it’s ticking……

And Initiative is tied to every skill and Steal is only a 1200 range which isn’t far enough distance to OOC and reset, they will burn at minimum 6 initiative every Infiltrators Arrow and possibly a 50 sec cd using Shadowstep, if they are trying to Re-engage and it will use more Initiative if the opponent has an iota of a brain and starts moving away when the Thief tries to OOC.

The lack of Game mechanic knowledge most players have are the reason balance in this game is so messed up, players that don’t know basic mechanics always cry for nerfs.

You talk about rewarding sloppy play, news flash every class has mechanics that reward Sloppy play, look at all the Invulns in game and all the Passives to include heals, Invulnerable, Cc reflects and stunbreaks.

I’m not so sure about previously applied condis keeping both people in combat. It’s been a long time since I experimented with them, but it certainly didn’t use to be that way and I expect it’s for the same reason that condi ticks don’t reveal stealth.

Could be wrong, but if it doesn’t work like that anymore, it’s been a stealth change.

As for the re-engage, I don’t know what to tell you. I regularly have thieves disengaging, resetting, and re-engaging with more than auto-attacks, and long before my own defenses are up. In fact, it’s a pretty smart way to fight less squishy opponents and very effective.

Of course, Shadowstep has Shadow Return, so there’s a 2400 roundtrip right there. Steal is 1200 and Shadow Shot is 900, so you’ve got an escape, return and re-engage of 2100 for the mere cost of 4 initiative. Steal, and Shadowstep without needing to take a single step. And there’s obviously more gas in the tank if more options or distance are needed.

I get wanting to defend Daredevil considering how much hate thief has generated since the game began, but you’ve gotta keep it real, man. Right or wrong, Daredevil is in a completely different league to every other class when it comes to the ability to reset and re-engage, and they’re often at an advantage (not a disadvantage) when they do, depending on who they’re fighting.

Damaging Conditions have always kept the applying player in combat since the Beginning of the Game, and Stealth not revealing on Condi Tick and staying in Combat are two completely different mechanics entirely, this highlights my second to last point in my post you are replying to.

Again if someone stays put for a Thief to easily re-engage is a l2p problem of the defending Player.

No Stealth changes to combat mechanics have changed in regards to Damaging conditions and OOC they have always kept players in combat until no more ticks are on the player and the players are far enough distance away, it has been this way since launch.and Shadow Return has a Short time to use which normally expires before the Thief OOCs let alone reset their health completely……..

Sviel.7493:

DaShi.1368:

The game isn’t balanced around 1v1. Certain classes and builds are going to dominate. Threads like this are why there can’t be open world pvp. People will just complain about how their class/build isn’t competitive around 1v1.

If you want to roam, play a roaming class/build. If you want to tank, play a tank class/build. If you want to zerg from range, play a ranged class/build. There are plenty of options for you.

It’s fine for certain classes to dominate, so long as there’s enough variety to keep things lively. Unfortunately, we have one subset dominating in both 1v1 and 5v5.

On top of that, the manner in which this domination happens makes for extremely uninteresting fights.

Guardian, Necromancer, Revenant, Elementalist, and Lesser extent Warrior Dominate Guild/Zerg fights.

Thief, Druid, Mesmer, Warrioor and to a lesser extent Engineer are the Roaming Classes

See a trend that’s pretty good diversity.

Choppy.4183:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

If a Thief Resets so do you, and if a Thief does run far enough away that you aren’t a threat they will have to Burn Initiative and CDs to re-engage, especially if you decide to it just stand in the one spot waiting for them to return.

There are exceptions to this. If it’s a condi thief (or condi anything), they’ll reset and you won’t until the last condi is cleared from you, plus a short delay. Also, if a small scale fight, the thief can easily remove himself from combat for the reset while the other enemies will keep you in.

As for CDs vs initiative, it’s not exactly an even comparison. Initiative gain is much faster than the CDs for most of the hard hitting skills and strong defenses. And then there’s Steal, of course.

In principle, I’m not actually opposed to thieves having some advantage in this regard (they certainly pay for it in other ways). But it does lead to boring fights and reward sloppy play when thieves effectively have unlimited do-overs if they want them, with the dead ones mostly being those too green to not overexpose themselves, or those unwilling to abuse the mechanic.

If a Condi from the Thief is on the opposing player even if they Try to OOC they will still be in combat, the games mechanics don’t magically stop working because someone is playing a Thief, that condition will keep the Thief in combat no matter how far away they are as long as it’s ticking……

And Initiative is tied to every skill and Steal is only a 1200 range which isn’t far enough distance to OOC and reset, they will burn at minimum 6 initiative every Infiltrators Arrow and possibly a 50 sec cd using Shadowstep, if they are trying to Re-engage and it will use more Initiative if the opponent has an iota of a brain and starts moving away when the Thief tries to OOC.

The lack of Game mechanic knowledge most players have are the reason balance in this game is so messed up, players that don’t know basic mechanics always cry for nerfs.

You talk about rewarding sloppy play, news flash every class has mechanics that reward Sloppy play, look at all the Invulns in game and all the Passives to include heals, Invulnerable, Cc reflects and stunbreaks.

Trevor Boyer.6524:

Bikel’s feedback is great btw, thank you.

I just want to comment on what he said:

• “The build still requires A LOT of setup before being able to perform these kind of nukes and therefore feels more like a 1 trick-pony (similar to “full traps Dh”), which is utterly useless if opponents can mitigate or even evade the damage.”

The same can be said about any damage, honestly. When you have a revenant with you + anything else tossing team support might stacks, Vault starts getting broken. A DH needs to equip all his utilities with traps to perform a super KO. His entire build is dedicated to this and he has little to no defensive stature at all. Vault is 1 weapon skill… leaving all utilities to your choosing and on a build designed to front the most dodges/evades possible on a class. Not to mention the traps hit multiple multiple times to deal that kind of damage, the vault hits once. When a gaggle of traps goes off, you have a brief moment to dodge roll away. When a tele/vault hits, you either have a block on or luckily are dodging during the time frame he decides to do this or you die. This is even considering players are at full health. Realistically in a 3v3 or a 4v4 when the vault thief shows up, players are at 75% resources or 50% or worse. Your team could be effectively winning that team fight but if the vault thief is good with timing all it takes is one brief moment to end your winning team fight and make sure his team wins it. This is what I’m talking about, it’s like stronger than a trebuchet man ^^

But after following this thread, I think I’ll play this staff thief a bit and see what it’s capable of when played without the bruiser mentality. If it’s good, I’ll record some of it and post.

What you mentioned can be achieved by any class not just Thieves GG your mindset is just to get Thieves nerfed don’t try to say otherwise, every class can Burst down anyone when they come upon a team fight when the other players are already preoccupied.

Thief isn’t the only class that can start downing players extremely easily when they come upon a team fight, he’ll a warrior just has to run in and start Using Arc divider(which can be spammed and is an AoE that cans do a lot more than Thief Vault, etc.

Just gonna Chime in on this since you seem to fully understand the game mechanics of Resetting.

“3. Thieves have way too much mobility, when they have low health they are able to run all the way till they are out of combat and then run all the way back in the fight when many of us still have cooldowns, this just seems unfair.”

If a Thief Resets so do you, and if a Thief does run far enough away that you aren’t a threat they will have to Burn Initiative and CDs to re-engage, especially if you decide to it just stand in the one spot waiting for them to return.

Again if the Thief goes OOC so do you, simple game mechanics and design.

Trevor Boyer.6524:

Yeah yeah yeah we get it, it’s telegraphed. That isn’t what we were talking about. What we were talking about is how easy it is to land that damage. Xanctus already explained why it’s “not OP necessarily but it is broken”. Also, I said nothing about having trouble against vault thiefs. It had just occurred to me that a build that can land above 10k – 15k single strike AoEs is… worth reviewing.

The build literally requires two functions in the world of newbies to land 10ks:

• dodge roll around
• push 5

Come on now… ceiling may be low but floor is too high. In the world of truly bronze players, it is actually hard for those people to land CCs on something that can 1 shot them, that is perma evading around them.

Again it is highly Telegraphed lock the Thief into the animation it travels to a predetermined spot unless someone uses 1 of two Shadowstep Style Skills, has Huge Tells to show when the Thief can be Punished, and again all this makes it easily Avoidable you literally get to see a Brightly glowing Thief Travelling to the predetermined location, so what isn’t avoidable or able to stop that when 1/3 of the cast is able to be punished?

Again it sounds like a huge issue of players asking for unnecessary nerfs because they need to learn how to play better, I wonder why Staff Thief isn’t prevalent in Gold t2 and up?

The only two changes needed are Revert the Confusion to no Longer passively proc in Pvp and WvW and Remove the Passive Tick of Torment off in the same game modes.

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

can confirm. I took a 10.022 k vault on my ragezerker(no rousing resiliance and viper amulet). I got caught by surprise. But otherwise i stomped the little critter rest of the match.

But yeah vault spammers are in the same boat as DH to some extent. gimmick builds with insane punishment would just annoy new players. I used to think that all these balance complaints was just kitten. But honestly it’s a perspective thing.

Gw2 is not at all friendly to new players. Atm the meta has a suck it up or kitten off mentality. 9 to 10 k vaults which are spammable are not fun for the new player.

Aside from a lack of tutorial. Builds like these will just scare away new players. Gw2 was and is a dynamic game that is practically very evolved with’s combat. amongst mmrpgs’s the combat is comparable to that of current action/dungeon rpg games like darksouls, finalfantasy 13, ff 15 kingdomhearts(action rpg) Which it should be commended for. I will say it again. reach out to new players A-net. put enough effort into the pvp community to justify gimmicky easy starter classes/builds or change the starter classes playstyle to make it less gimmikcy or scale down damage on every class. so no 5 traps, dragonsmaw/procession of blades mumbo jumbo, no dagger/dagger thief kitten. New players actually need to enjoy themselves first to get into the game which means having them win and feel that thier efforts matter. Making builds or allowing for such builds that are at that level hopeless and even insulting to fight against. trollbuilds practically is not the way to go.

Imagine playing pokemon and litterally every motherkittener and thier mother has a wobbufet in the beginning level with counter or mirrocoat in the beginning it’s not fun. yes u can say: just use sandstorm, poison, burn, screech or some other kitten which are TM’s u have to get by actually going in some cave without flash to progress further. That’s absolutely insane. Or atleast tell the player that with every npc he talks with or his proffesor that he ought to go to some mystery cave first and give the player some basic potions and tips to navigate the cave.

U can still have a competetive system in which u somewhat alter the learning curve or atleast influnce the learning curve so that we don’t get kitten like 9 to 10 k vaults stomping players with them bieng unable to do anything against is because honestly that is the most frustrating, the constant hopelessness of facing enemy or odds that u can’t beat with nobody there to help.

Again the skill is Extremely Telegraphed with the actual skill animations and the Extremely visible Bright Blue Aura and it ending to highlight the Punish Frames(which no other class has such visible punish frame Tells) before any damage is able to happen and can be interrupted quite easily with all the CC Spam every class has(including all the AoE CC Spam).

This is just a huge example of bads being bads, nothing more.

But hey you play warrior and you don’t mind the spammable 9-15k 2.5 sec CD Arc Dividers which doesn’t have much of a tell.

Trevor Boyer.6524:

Sure you could run valk on it just fine.
Sure you could stick around and bound a few times before stepping out, just fine.

I never claimed to be a master thief player.
I simply explained something that I was trying out.

No you were calling for unnecessary nerfs because you have a problem with a highly telegraphed/highly visible Skill that clearly show when all the punish frames are, and you were making claims trying to use extremely subpar builds that almost no probably uses and you try to highlight that in a video that isn’t even used in an actual Pvp setting/ match.

Helseth Pubstomped Anet Devs on stream using a Staff Thief, next day Anet adds 1 sec CD to Stealth Attacks.

Doam.8305:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Doam.8305:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Doam.8305:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Shazmataz.1423:

Bahahah trying to avoid the statement hat Multiple sets of gear is faster and easier to swap to and from when you are proven wrong, and most players I know in WvW and other game modes have multiple Ascended sets and those multiple sets of Ascended are cheaper than one set of Legendary armor.

There is no benefit besides convenience with bag space over having Legendary vs Ascended, none what so ever. You don’t get more stats and it’s slower to swap between Legendary stat swap then it is to swap between Ascended gear.

Good for them but most of the people don’t live in WvW as I know many people with separate gear myself included but that doesn’t change the fact the people I know that do that are in my guild. The majority of people in WvW aren’t tied to a guild their just following a cmd and there not going to have organized bags full of gear to fiddle through each and every time they want to change. I myself have a locked bag that the items can’t be sold or new items added that hold my side armor. Your legendary is all on a single window and each one is listed side by side it’ll take all but two seconds to click and selcet a prefix and replace a rune per piece. There is no clicking and dragging gear to slots either it’ll all be in a neat scroll down just like for weapons no doubt.

Legendary armor will be the go to method for the foreseeable future not just because of the individual but for the greater server as stated all actions are tied and its the fuid motion of your entire server that determines the outcome so one must look at things from the macro level unlike one would for Pve or Spvp.

Thy already stated how it works the runes go in your inventory not saved in the piece like how the stat prefixes are, the Infusions are the same way, your argument was that it’s so much faster and convenient and an advantage over multiple sets, when it is not, it is a lot more work that isn’t intuitive, it will take over twice as long to swap over, so your hypothetical Legendary time advantage is a complete disadvantage for quick swapping in between skirmishes.

You don’t have to drag and drop any extra gear you literally either double click the alternate item from the left hand pane or right click your currently equipped item and equip the desired one. no dragging or dropping everything can be done easily in the Hero Panel…… TFW having to explain basic gameplay designs….

Legendary armor will require double clicking each individual piece search through the list for desired stat and double clicking the runes you want from the left hand pane and then clicking on the desired piece repeated 5 more times same with infusions………..

And the punish frames for it.

iKeostuKen.2738:

Feel like it really depends on your playstyle then if you want to be using a shortbow or not. Honestly i stopped after the 100th, cannot find valid path when using it. Just decided to use P/P, Sw/D on my builds. Still have viable play from that, just not playing the role as a decapper.

Unless that 1 cleave hit does a large amt of burs, its a waste of time to even cleave the body and you yourself are just taking the un needed damage.

Just dodging it isnt always a thing since all in all they have atleast 3+ bounds, which constantly gives more vaults. About 4 before the thief needs to possibly pause before more vaults. Telling apart a bound from a vault is pretty difficult imo so blowing it on a weaker version is possible.

Skills honestly need to be able to be CCed. That would justify the damage.

How is telling apart a vault and bound hard? vault make the Thief glow Bright Blue for the majority of the cast with a large area around the Thief, Bound does not.

And then for the skill needs to be capable of being CC’d you can cc it there are punish frames built in before damage is applied, the Thief is locked into the animation and then the big glowing Tell ends when the punish frames are present.

If you haven’t noticed WvW is the least prioritized game mode with almost zero support, every other gamemode even one that doesn’t require Armor stats has an Ascended Vendor except for WvW… quit kidding yourself it will probably be another two years before WvW gets an Ascended Vendor let alone a set of Armor that took 2 years to even implement when it was promised with the Expac…

iKeostuKen.2738:

Because shortbow isnt needed?

As a Ele, I do use shocking aura. Half the time i dont even see the effect working as there is no interruption, and im still getting hit multiple times.

Counter cleave it? I mean, staff ele would be the best bet for landing damage, and then the dmg is weak and evasion frames are pretty inconsistent at times since if I do sometimes time an atk as they land, it doesnt even register for some strange reason.

You dont have to run daredevil runes, could be using something like scholar and still get the same effects from it without having to blow your evades.

Why are you vaulting in stealth? Wouldnt the most logical thing to do be, stealth up, go in with stealth + backstab, swap to staff and then start vaulting following it up with bounds for some easy intiative regen and vigor upkeep? Even though stealth wouldnt be needed if you even get the drop on someone.

Pick up acrobatics and you basically have a massive amount of evasion time. Making you gain easy initiative per dodge, gain all your endurance back if someone manages to land a stun on you, and constantly have unstrippable vigor.

Go Read what Trevor Boyer is complaining about, he is complaining about Thieves spamming Vault from stealth and that there is no Tell from Thieves spamming Stealth vault……..

iKeostuKen.2738:

No access to stealth as a staff thief? Do people forget about x / pistol? Bounding into it grants stealth so you don’t even need heartseeker or shortbow.

Staff can be really useful in teamfights as you evade into combat with the potential of doing high burst during chaos of the battle. Can even lock down rezzers by vault spamming on a downed player.

Smoking some stuff if you really wanna try to justify the damage on vault. Especially if thieves have 90% evasion time during a fight. Then again I play ele so one vault is basically a death sentence for me, and stopping one from flipping around requires a high amount of luck when it comes to latency and cast times. Lucky if I dont randomly get hit by a blind during a CC cast.

The smart ones toss on intelligence sigils.

Again Running X/P for stealth only works if you engage with X/P uses your weapon swap CD (9secs) uses 6 Ini out of the limited 12-15 Ini Thief has you know the only resource for most Thief Attacks, it wastes a Dodge for the stealth, the BP can be interrupted so wasted 6 Ini in a lot of cases, yeah, Much Stealth, many Stealth vaults much wow!!

Doam.8305:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Doam.8305:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Shazmataz.1423:

Thinking it’s easier/faster to have to double click and stat swap all 6-11 Legendary pieces and re apply Runes vs just doubling clicking or Right click equip a different set of gear that has along runes and Infusions already applied bahaha ahaha, swapping out regular Ascended is easier and faster by far. Sorry players with Multiple pre Setup sets and Good inventory management will be able to adapt faster to any given situation. It’s just simple common sense at that point, due to there being less steps than swapping Legendary armor over.

Steps to swap Legendary armor:
Double click individual piece, look for desired stat in stat list, select stat: repeat 5-10 times.

Find appropriate Rune in Inventory/Hero Panel double click apply to armor:repeat 5 more times.

Look in inventory for Appropriate infusion double click in inventory/hero panel apply to armor: repeat 5 times.

Replace all non Legendary stat accessories double click each while finding in inventory.

Steps for Ascended swap over:

Right click slot wanting to replace right click in Hero panel equip: repeat 5 times

Weapons: replace weapons as necessary righ click slot and equip new item

Accessories: right click and select desired accessories.

1. This game really needs templates

2. Your an ant in WvW its not about you its about the effectiveness of the greater hive and many people don’t carry the tools necessary to constantly swap gear and some have never even left WvW since their creation. Eventually there will be an additional set of legendary armor no doubt sooner than the time it took to get the first because they talked about having to rework systems for the hundredth time in order to get it to work. One would think that would mean we’d get the next set faster but its anet and they’ll rework systems just to abandon and rework even more systems in a never ending loop. At any rate a zerg/group that can shift its priorities on the orders of their cmd is different than an individual and the more complex something is the harder time the masses will have with it. Thus I maintain that if you were a cmd with a zerg legendary armor would be the fastest change for your zerg because all the people need to know are the prefix/rune names and repeat the same process. I don’t have that much faith in humanity to get people to sift through the inventory compared to just clicking their armor directly.

Not many people have muliple sets and of course this sort of thing won’t happen for awhile. Though I maintain L. Armor locked to raids is a bad thing because some will grind till the point of burnout, play a mode they despise in order it, or lose their carrot on a stick they use for motivation. Basically people will leave the raid scene once they get the armor and they’ll start to travel back into other modes. You can be in a ten man roaming party and not everyone may have the gear to swap but a ten man raiding team bored and ready to try something different with their new armor will probably try their luck in WvW. Considering raids have guilds behind them its not too far a stretch at all that those guild members share a server for WvW and assist each other and members in getting the armor. Unlike weapons the armor can be a guild activity and thus they can easily in time eclipse other swapping methods in WvW since some WvW guild do engage in other activities.

Bahahah trying to avoid the statement hat Multiple sets of gear is faster and easier to swap to and from when you are proven wrong, and most players I know in WvW and other game modes have multiple Ascended sets and those multiple sets of Ascended are cheaper than one set of Legendary armor.

There is no benefit besides convenience with bag space over having Legendary vs Ascended, none what so ever. You don’t get more stats and it’s slower to swap between Legendary stat swap then it is to swap between Ascended gear.

Doam.8305:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Shazmataz.1423:

I certainly hope that legendary armour cannot be used in wvw if it is pve only there is no viable way of attaining it via wvw …surely that is only fair.

Oh so they should disable Ascended armor and all HoT stats in WvW and all Legendary armors?? Smh people, Legendary Armor isn’t a Stat increase or any advantage besides convenience they won’t be better than you in any way for having Legendary Armor vs Ascended and it’s no different than Ascended vs Exotic.

Gotta melt the lord go Zerk
Gotta command that seige while under fire go Nomad
Gotta cap that camp are chase those invaders then go something balanced

Change your runes too to match the situation in and out much faster than those swapping full ascended gears sets or swapping entire toons. The convenience is time and time stacks making it a rather obvious advantage.

Two zergs trying to cap two identicle borderlands and yet one zerg is all ascended and one is all legends the legends will cap everything faster because they can adapt faster and change everything quickly. If those two zergs fought and saw each other the zerg with legends can change their builds before the two zergs clash and get locked in combat. People are demanding sigils currently so that may be whats next but Anet doesn’t take well to suggestions just look at templates.

Your situation changes so drastically for moment to moment in WvW that legendary armor might even be seen as a power creep in some situations. Personally when I want to roam in wvw I have a build that can cap the camp rather quickly but I’m killed by other roamers however if I’m running a build to defend my borderland and thus kill roamers if I had to cap a camp it takes so long that their defenders will reach me. Leg armor would negate all of that and my server would be rewarded as its not so much the player vs player but at a macro level of the server itself because all these things combine the server that can achieve its goals faster and more efficiently will be the one in the lead.

Thinking it’s easier/faster to have to double click and stat swap all 6-11 Legendary pieces and re apply Runes vs just doubling clicking or Right click equip a different set of gear that has along runes and Infusions already applied bahaha ahaha, swapping out regular Ascended is easier and faster by far. Sorry players with Multiple pre Setup sets and Good inventory management will be able to adapt faster to any given situation. It’s just simple common sense at that point, due to there being less steps than swapping Legendary armor over.

Steps to swap Legendary armor:
Double click individual piece, look for desired stat in stat list, select stat: repeat 5-10 times.

Find appropriate Rune in Inventory/Hero Panel double click apply to armor:repeat 5 more times.

Look in inventory for Appropriate infusion double click in inventory/hero panel apply to armor: repeat 5 times.

Replace all non Legendary stat accessories double click each while finding in inventory.

Steps for Ascended swap over:

Right click slot wanting to replace right click in Hero panel equip: repeat 5 times

Weapons: replace weapons as necessary righ click slot and equip new item

Accessories: right click and select desired accessories.

Trevor Boyer.6524:

I keep hearing people say how easy it is to avoid the vault and that simply isn’t true in all situations. The good ones start vaulting and then shadow step at you. This makes the vault land instantly and there isn’t time to dodge roll kitten. They also like to stealth first before coming in with it. Essentially the vault thief is trash in a mid fight if he’s trying to be a bruiser about it and brawl on point but the smart ones who wait and creep around first are a guaranteed nuke to hit a team fight, usually dropping 2 or 3 players simultaneously with a single strike.

What’s broken isn’t really the damage behind bound and vault. It’s that they have parameters that allow them to enter a team fight late “when everyone is at half health” and do so in stealth and with a shadow step insta 15k bomb on every opponent at the mid point.

I’m sorry but it’s a bit broken and needs some patching. A good start would be so that none of it’s traits/runes or otherwise it’s procs, would ever work before it is in combat. It’s kind of messed up that they can build up a bunch of damage modifiers while sitting in stealth, ooc from mid and then come in with a 15k AoE nuke on point. That’s a REALLY over powered single strike attack. It’s not the staff thief build that’s broken, it’s just vault nuking. Maybe vault should only hit a maximum of 2 targets or maybe only 1.

Dunno, maybe a better way to explain this isn’t that it’s OP but rather it’s broken. Some of that power needs to be distributed in other places on the staff build, not just dumped all into 1 skill. That way the build as a whole is playable and not just used for single strike point nuking.

Again it’s a Skill that uses at minimum 1/3 of the Thieves total resources to almost 1/2 of the Thieves total resources, and it is highly telegraphed, hell the Thief glows bright blue when they activate the skill and has a slow travel speed during the animation. And don’t try to act like other classes can’t AoE Burst, instead of one skill they have multiple AoEs to use not tied all to the same resource as every other skill. And lmao complaining about staff Thief and stealth, i’ve heard it all now at a bare minimum a text to 42nd call Dan for a staff safety game still otherwise they’re wasting a lot of initiative with that going dagger kittened off and swapping the staff shake my head players in this game just need to get better

BikeIsGone.8675:

now I havent read all the comments posted so far, but let me tell you, that those numbers are definitely achievable even without “hacks”.

The basic idea is to run a lot of damage modifiers from traits.

Bounding Dodge (10%) + Executioner (20%) + Lead attacks (15%) + Havoc Mastery (7%) + Exposed Weakness (10%) = 62% damage increase.

If said thief now runs very high ferocity, they can EASILY crit for >10k .
Its not a very popular, but there is a build that uses Valkyrie amulet combined with Daredevil Runes (= guaranteed crit after a dodge roll), where you get 210% crit dmg.

TFW people think Damage Modifiers are Additive……

Actually Rednik new players can learn by themselves, or otherwise there would be no one clearing Raids since everyone learned from somewhere, every single one of your posts seems to imply that the average Gw2 isn’t all that smart since you always make statements like, “new players cannot learn by themselves.” Which guess what the people that originally cleared each Boss were new to Raids and learned/beat them by themselves, and there is no LI wall especially if they make their own raids, it’s not like there isn’t actual information on all the Raid bosses available to give them a leg up that the original raiders didn’t have.

Just saying your view of the average Gw2 player is abysmal, thinking they can’t learn from observation.

They haven’t even fully delivered on the promise of Gen 2 Legendaries, so I don’t see why people want them to rush into Gen 3 yet, let them focus on fixing one failed promise before the next one.

All I can say is EU has a higher pvp population which by itself leads to better match quality.

The old Meta Thief D/P build is still a contender and in my opinion one of the best core specs to “compete” with HoT specs if you don’t have HoT.

It’s D/P DA/Tri/SA using Withdraw, Shadowstep, Blinding Powder, Signet of Agility or Assassin’s Signet, and Basilisk Venom.

Use the Marauder Amulet with Scholar Runes, and Fire and Air or Air and Blood for sigils.

Use SB as the secondary weapon

Evan Lesh.3295:

It’s almost like DH has a low skill floor or something.

zealex.9410:

Don’t talk about something if you dont know about it… And yes, this specific set will be raids only. That doesnt mean that theres no cha ce for other game modes to get their own (even tho i dont see it with the kitten they get from players for both the rune system and the looks).

Again WvW doesn’t even have an Ascended Vendor when every other “challenging” gamemode has one, you expect them to make a Legendary armor Solely for WvW with Solely WvW acquisition?? Bahahaha

Kekkei Genkai Kage.5930:

what effort for the collection when ppl just buy them??!?!?!

You mean like how your bought your Ascended sets? So you put no effort in for your Ascended sets because you would have bought them? You are making this too easy

Kekkei Genkai Kage.5930:

you assume I only have 7 for one heavy characteer while I have 7 other sets for medium and light, that is roughly over 10k gold I spent so your point for some kid with legendary armor that is worth a avg legendary wpn?

Again I said effort in my last post, as in the effort put forth to complete the collections cost wasn’t the only thing I mentioned, woooo !!!

Kekkei Genkai Kage.5930:

still disable cuz while I still have to have 7 armor sets for wvw and now kids with legendary only need 1 since they can change their runes anytime.

Oh nooo some one spent more time, effort and gold working on an armor set that cost more than all 7 of yours combined gets to stay swap and Rune swap if they own both as separate items in their inventory. How the world is coming to an end…..